FM2011 - same old, same old

the same irritating stuff keeps happening. I wonder if the people who make this game actually watch football sometimes.

The main thing that STILL bugs me with this game is the amount of times the opposition, over a higher than realistic number of matches in a season, will score with every 1, 2, 3 chances they get. I've tried different tactics (both my own and peoples ones off of here) over the years but the amount of times it happens against my team is still disproportionatly more than ANY cpu team (in the past I've actually gone and looked at every other match form my league) and come the end of the season, no matter where I finish in the league, my team will be at the top of that list and a good 6 or 7 games more where it has happened than anybody else.

Now I know I'll probably get the same old smart arse fan boys piping up stating "maybe you're just not very good" or "you need better players" or "it's your tactics" but I'm telling you that it is none of the above, it's just that FM poorly built (I get sick and tired of waiting 2-3 mnths after its release before they've pulled their damn fingers out and patched it so that it's at least half playable) and the people who are making it waste too much time focusing on improving cosmetic nonsense rather than delving deep into the core of the game and making the actual representation of the GAME of football the most important part of their work. I Acouldn't give a toss about a 3D match engine or whether I can have a conversation with my player or if my board want to give me an extra £100k transfer budget. I jsut want when I go into the match for it to represent a PROPER BLOODY GAME OF FOOTBALL. It's like putting a pair of breat implants on a bimbo BOBFOC, yeah it might look good and be nice to play around with but a the end of the day she's still got the IQ of tin of Spam and a face like Freddie Krugger ball-bag.

So there you have it. As I've wasted my money on yet another unplayable, steaming pile of dig turd that is FM I may come back to it in a few months just so that I don't completely feel like I've crapped away my £'s but for now, quite frankly, SI can <insert appropriate word that some jobsworth mod will want to ban/warn me for> off!!!!

I do feel there are points to this that I agree with, I feel that SI should perhaps take a year out from releasing a game and see how that affects the final product. I do think the game looks better this year and also has some nice features, but I also wish I had waited for it to be £19.99 in the shops as the overall feel to the game is more representative of FM2010 Patch 4, and not a whole new product.

I understand why bugs pop up as when a new feature is introduced into an already heavy game that can create bugs in all manor of places.

I don't agree with your point about SI not understanding or watching football, they are avid football fans and the whole reason the original franchise was created was because there was no other decent game of its type, Made by fans for fans I think was the tagline (I'm sure someone will correct me on that one)

SI are a small team and to create a game of this size each year is no easy task. Credit to them for that. I feel that if they were to increase their staff it may have a detramental affect on them financially, don't forget how much an experienced programmer costs. (I started my working life in this industry, the money is great but the hours are rubbish)

Lets not forget this is a game, yes it is supposed to be as realistic as possible, but so are loads of other games out there. FM has to process so many lines of code just to allow your striker to either shoot with his left foot or his right that there are going to be inconsistencies and problems.

Football is a funny old game irl and with FM and that is why we love it because of the inconsistencies and the drama, so that we can shout at the TV or the monitor, the reasons are sometimes different but without that it would be just another stale game.

I do feel there are points to this that I agree with, I feel that SI should perhaps take a year out from releasing a game and see how that affects the final product. I do think the game looks better this year and also has some nice features, but I also wish I had waited for it to be £19.99 in the shops as the overall feel to the game is more representative of FM2010 Patch 4, and not a whole new product.

I have though this for sometime, I know it all comes down to money so it's unlikely but IMO they should have a 2 year cycle just once and if they are worried about finnancial gain, just release an officail data update/final patch in November 2011 at a small cost, perhaps £5-10. Then when FM2013 comes out they would have had far more time to iron out the problems as well as having more time to make FM2011 amazing. It will never happen but it's something I would be very happy with.

I have though this for sometime, I know it all comes down to money so it's unlikely but IMO they should have a 2 year cycle just once and if they are worried about finnancial gain, just release an officail data update/final patch in November 2011 at a small cost, perhaps £5-10. Then when FM2013 comes out they would have had far more time to iron out the problems as well as having more time to make FM2011 amazing. It will never happen but it's something I would be very happy with.

The problem is that its more than likely down to SEGA and not SI.

well to the Opening Post, maybe just maybe you need to keep tweeking your tactic but you'll most likely say you've got the best defenders in the world, obviously you haven't if they are getting scored upon alot with the opposition chances. Just a mixture of a poor defensive side of your tactics and your players, might just be individual player tactics you need to tweek, but don't give up. I am sure all that anger can be turned into ultimate joy once you have fixed your ****** defensive side of your 1st team.

The problem is that its more than likely down to SEGA and not SI.

Yep, as always it's about £££s.

How do you know they're a small team? They make millions from this product every year, Im sure they have large enough team to manage.

Bottom line, its all about perspective. If you see this game to be an accurate simulation of real life football, then its an absolute fail and unplayable in that sense. If you see it as just a game to have fun with, then its one of the best games ever.

No doubt there are a few things Im not happy about either, and they should be fixed. But its never going to be real life simulation

Seriously. OP. Go play Fifa Manager 11 then.

Go play some other "football manager" game then.

There will always be problems with games, but if you can't recognise this is above and beyond the best in class then too bad.

And if you can't figure out your tactics then just too bad. We've all been there before. But sometimes you need to realise there are more things in play then what you think there is.

Grow some wisdom.

Very mature of you taking a pop at the developers. I bet you're just another coward who won't be able to tell a developer the same thing face to face. I'm very sure the developers watch and know more about football than you ever will in your lifetime.

not very good at the game I can see.

easy to blame other when you keep losing. I see frustration from your post that you keep losing. It is okay to be bad loser my friend, but it is very poor of you to blame you losing on other people.

You should be man and take time and look at tactic and look at your team and try build not come with quick fix to blame other people

my friend i have seen many people like you in my time and it is very sad to see

Seriously. OP. Go play Fifa Manager 11 then.

Go play some other "football manager" game then.

There will always be problems with games, but if you can't recognise this is above and beyond the best in class then too bad.

And if you can't figure out your tactics then just too bad. We've all been there before. But sometimes you need to realise there are more things in play then what you think there is.

Grow some wisdom.

Very stupid post. It would be somehow acceptable ( i mean this stupid post) just under circumstances this game will be free. It is not.

Very mature of you taking a pop at the developers. I bet you're just another coward who won't be able to tell a developer the same thing face to face. I'm very sure the developers watch and know more about football than you ever will in your lifetime.

Other stupid post. Why he have to be scared? Like developer is this crazy macho guy and he will kill him. Just don't post stupid things pls.

not very good at the game I can see.

easy to blame other when you keep losing. I see frustration from your post that you keep losing. It is okay to be bad loser my friend, but it is very poor of you to blame you losing on other people.

You should be man and take time and look at tactic and look at your team and try build not come with quick fix to blame other people

my friend i have seen many people like you in my time and it is very sad to see

Other stupid post. Completely pointless, senseless.

yzzycz you still have free will. you are not forced to buy the game so if people dont like it then dont buy it. problem solved.

Why he have to be scared? Like developer is this crazy macho guy and he will kill him. Just don't post stupid things pls.

Are you seriously an idiot or is your reading comprehension just very low?

Who said anything about being scared? The OP is a coward because he posts a thread with groundless accusations that he won't be able to back up with facts if he was confronted by the developers.

Other stupid post. Completely pointless, senseless.

And you pointing that out quoting THE WHOLE POST is not pointless?

Mate, I suggest you take a vacation for a very long time and come back when you're not as ignorant.

Ok , here's the thing:

if it truly is a bug or poor design or poorly built match engine, then everyone would have this problem. And not everyone has that problem. Therefor there must be something you are doing wrong. Either bad tatics (and there's a lot that goes on in creating a tactic, it's not just the players positions), bad team or something like that.

This is simple logic.

oh shock, how long does it take for a whole host of you to completely miss the bloody point?

First of all I never said that I was constantly losing, nor am I tactically naive enough to not make tweeks to formations and styles of play. That is not what I am getting at in the slightest and if any of you can't quite fathom that then I suggest you refrain from posting yet more tiresome, prediictable counter arguements because you really haven't quite got it.

For you information on previous versions of the game (where I have tested my theory) I have had games where my team (QPR for those that want to know that I'm not starting out with a footballing juggernaut or rank amatuer part timers) have had heaps of success on every version. I have gone whole seasons undefeated (I think on FM07 I went 95 league games without a defeat before losing at home to Chelsea - yes, that one still hurts). Once I bring in and develop players I can mould an extremely tight defence but my point is, as stated above, the fact that regardless of whether I am just starting out with an 'ok' team OR I am many seasons in the fact remains that my teams on average conceed far more goals to shots than ANY other team in the game which is why I am highlighting this underlying flaw.

You may chosse to disbelieve me, that is your choice but this is something that I have tested over a few years now (not in depth with FM2011 yet and nor am I likely to as I already know the outcome) and the results are pretty much always the same which is why I am washing my hands of SI and this franchise for the time being, they have some good ideas and I don't doubt that they care but overall the product is incredibly flawed and sub standard.

As for the standardised knee jerk posters getting all huffy with me for daring to have an opinion on something and putting down their beloved FM well I'd probably advise you to ignore this thread...unless of course you have something a little more constructive to say other than resorting to labelling people 'cowards' or any other such unfounded, juvenille name calling. Grow up and get a life!!

Coding Football manager game or Match Engine isnt easy task !!! I dont think Any of you can do better Football manager game or Match Engine than what SI done!

Ahhh new game syndrome... I'm having a torrid time with Chelsea at the moment - massive under-performance but what do you expect? Each game i've had to re-think my tactics and soon enough everything is sorted out. Trial and error.

The Pops at the developers, sega, si and what not are mundane now. If you don't like it, don't buy it or at least sell it on to someone else and recoup some of the money if you believe its rather sub-standard. FM is still one of the best games in terms of content, support and value for money

Flawed and sub-standard? I'm sorry but in order for something to be sub-standard there needs to actually be a standard. Given FM is the benchmark and there is no game out there that fits your specifications then calling it sub-standard is ignorant. It would be like buying a trip to the moon then getting angry because you don't get room service onboard. Just enjoy something for what it provides rather than nitpicking every little issue. You must have a very difficult life if something as minor as that causes you such grief.

We are all ninjas tbf

A Scottish Ninja??

oh shock, how long does it take for a whole host of you to completely miss the bloody point?

First of all I never said that I was constantly losing, nor am I tactically naive enough to not make tweeks to formations and styles of play. That is not what I am getting at in the slightest and if any of you can't quite fathom that then I suggest you refrain from posting yet more tiresome, prediictable counter arguements because you really haven't quite got it.

For you information on previous versions of the game (where I have tested my theory) I have had games where my team (QPR for those that want to know that I'm not starting out with a footballing juggernaut or rank amatuer part timers) have had heaps of success on every version. I have gone whole seasons undefeated (I think on FM07 I went 95 league games without a defeat before losing at home to Chelsea - yes, that one still hurts). Once I bring in and develop players I can mould an extremely tight defence but my point is, as stated above, the fact that regardless of whether I am just starting out with an 'ok' team OR I am many seasons in the fact remains that my teams on average conceed far more goals to shots than ANY other team in the game which is why I am highlighting this underlying flaw.

You may chosse to disbelieve me, that is your choice but this is something that I have tested over a few years now (not in depth with FM2011 yet and nor am I likely to as I already know the outcome) and the results are pretty much always the same which is why I am washing my hands of SI and this franchise for the time being, they have some good ideas and I don't doubt that they care but overall the product is incredibly flawed and sub standard.

As for the standardised knee jerk posters getting all huffy with me for daring to have an opinion on something and putting down their beloved FM well I'd probably advise you to ignore this thread...unless of course you have something a little more constructive to say other than resorting to labelling people 'cowards' or any other such unfounded, juvenille name calling. Grow up and get a life!!

well it's simple, either stop playing fm 2011 (i know you cantt stop cos you'll keep on playing) uninstall the game and dont post in this part of the forums, or keep tweeking your tactic defensively, bring in other players you feel might be more suited to your tactic, don't give up, keep at it and I am sure you will succeed.

Who said football management was easy ?

the same irritating stuff keeps happening. I wonder if the people who make this game actually watch football sometimes.

The main thing that STILL bugs me with this game is the amount of times the opposition, over a higher than realistic number of matches in a season, will score with every 1, 2, 3 chances they get. I've tried different tactics (both my own and peoples ones off of here) over the years but the amount of times it happens against my team is still disproportionatly more than ANY cpu team (in the past I've actually gone and looked at every other match form my league) and come the end of the season, no matter where I finish in the league, my team will be at the top of that list and a good 6 or 7 games more where it has happened than anybody else.

Now I know I'll probably get the same old smart arse fan boys piping up stating "maybe you're just not very good" or "you need better players" or "it's your tactics" but I'm telling you that it is none of the above, it's just that FM poorly built (I get sick and tired of waiting 2-3 mnths after its release before they've pulled their damn fingers out and patched it so that it's at least half playable) and the people who are making it waste too much time focusing on improving cosmetic nonsense rather than delving deep into the core of the game and making the actual representation of the GAME of football the most important part of their work. I Acouldn't give a toss about a 3D match engine or whether I can have a conversation with my player or if my board want to give me an extra £100k transfer budget. I jsut want when I go into the match for it to represent a PROPER BLOODY GAME OF FOOTBALL. It's like putting a pair of breat implants on a bimbo BOBFOC, yeah it might look good and be nice to play around with but a the end of the day she's still got the IQ of tin of Spam and a face like Freddie Krugger ball-bag.

So there you have it. As I've wasted my money on yet another unplayable, steaming pile of dig turd that is FM I may come back to it in a few months just so that I don't completely feel like I've crapped away my £'s but for now, quite frankly, SI can <insert appropriate word that some jobsworth mod will want to ban/warn me for> off!!!!

stop blaiming the game i don't have this problem and most others don't.

oh shock, how long does it take for a whole host of you to completely miss the bloody point?

First of all I never said that I was constantly losing, nor am I tactically naive enough to not make tweeks to formations and styles of play. That is not what I am getting at in the slightest and if any of you can't quite fathom that then I suggest you refrain from posting yet more tiresome, prediictable counter arguements because you really haven't quite got it.

For you information on previous versions of the game (where I have tested my theory) I have had games where my team (QPR for those that want to know that I'm not starting out with a footballing juggernaut or rank amatuer part timers) have had heaps of success on every version. I have gone whole seasons undefeated (I think on FM07 I went 95 league games without a defeat before losing at home to Chelsea - yes, that one still hurts). Once I bring in and develop players I can mould an extremely tight defence but my point is, as stated above, the fact that regardless of whether I am just starting out with an 'ok' team OR I am many seasons in the fact remains that my teams on average conceed far more goals to shots than ANY other team in the game which is why I am highlighting this underlying flaw.

You may chosse to disbelieve me, that is your choice but this is something that I have tested over a few years now (not in depth with FM2011 yet and nor am I likely to as I already know the outcome) and the results are pretty much always the same which is why I am washing my hands of SI and this franchise for the time being, they have some good ideas and I don't doubt that they care but overall the product is incredibly flawed and sub standard.

As for the standardised knee jerk posters getting all huffy with me for daring to have an opinion on something and putting down their beloved FM well I'd probably advise you to ignore this thread...unless of course you have something a little more constructive to say other than resorting to labelling people 'cowards' or any other such unfounded, juvenille name calling. Grow up and get a life!!

you said teams against you seemed to score with just about 1,2,3 chances they get you have bad tactics then matched with a dodgy defence and you attack to much.whats your formation,set up,tempo ect

Is this a new thread? Or just a replica of the same turgid rants from previous years. Oh the latter. I'll move on then.

Mods, can we not have a rant subforum? It's real hard these days to have 'general discussion' without all wading through the stench of primadonna internet whackjobs venting thier childish flames 'cos they lost a game or somesuch.

A Scottish Ninja??

Why else would the roman army have needed to build a bloody big wall?

lol at all of you who have dropped to the same standard as the OP (not that it's low, but with the level of frustration). I mean, couldn't you guys tweak your persona tactics to refrain from making just as equally a dumb response to what ever the subject is at hand here? Just look at the bitchy arguments that stems from one single post? It's ironic that some of you slate him and your just as bad. Quote ;

" Seriously. OP. Go play Fifa Manager 11 then.

Go play some other "football manager" game then.

There will always be problems with games, but if you can't recognise this is above and beyond the best in class then too bad.

And if you can't figure out your tactics then just too bad. We've all been there before. But sometimes you need to realise there are more things in play then what you think there is.

Grow some wisdom. "

Dude, why don't you grow some wisdom and acknowledge the fact this will only generate a negative response and understand this has no constructual purpose what so ever but to flame and only flame?

If your going to respond, at least do it constructively like some. If you stand by what you said, and you believe that it has nothing to do with the game or any other mechanics then just ignore... isn't hard is it?

Hell, im even doing this crap right now - im a hypocrite god damn you!!!

Any ways, like you said your self - no game will ever be perfect and will always have problems. Just like every game will have it's followers who will struggle witht he game for what ever reason and they will vent that frustration how they please. Whether it's true or not, is irrelevant. You whinging back aint gonna make it stop? So why bother?

Im off to slit my wrists now anyhoo, I cant get my strikers to score on this bloody game ^^

yzzycz you still have free will. you are not forced to buy the game so if people dont like it then dont buy it. problem solved.

Surely the counter argument to this would be that the player has already purchased the game with their 'hard earned cash' and they have bought a product that is flawed. They would not find this out until after they had paid their money.

How many games shops would allow a refund because you think there are bugs in the game?

When you make any purchase in life, you expect the subject of that purchase to work ‘perfectly’. With computer games, it seems to be universally accepted that there will be bugs, flaws, imperfections etc. Why is that acceptable?

Seriously. OP. Go play Fifa Manager 11 then.

Go play some other "football manager" game then.

There will always be problems with games, but if you can't recognise this is above and beyond the best in class then too bad.

And if you can't figure out your tactics then just too bad. We've all been there before. But sometimes you need to realise there are more things in play then what you think there is.

Grow some wisdom.

Seconded.

There's much more to real football management than simply buying players, picking them and giving them a tactic, and FM does its best to reflect this.

In my opinion FM11 is a massive improvement on FM10, in particular the match engine, and as you said, Nico, is above and beyond every single other football management game out there.

To say it is "unplayable" is, first and foremost NOT TRUE as clearly there are millions of people playing it quite happily; secondly, shows a great deal of disrespect to the programmers; thridly, demontrates a complete lack of understanding of how vast a program FM is; and finally, makes the poster sound like the kind of spoiled brat who would upturn a scrabble board if his parents or friends were beating him at it.

snip

Yeah same old , im playing since 99/00 and not once my goalkeeper saved the day , you know like having 2 shots on target and win a game while the other team had like 20 .

I think that is a bit harsh. Not saying everything is perfect, far from it, but I think it will be hard to find a more "realistic" match engine out there that attempts to simulate a game of football. Especially when you are able to go in and basically do what you want tactically and (hopefully) not upset the balance too much.

Not really, I’m not actually talking about the competitors out there in this instance as I know that they’re incredibly poor. FM is the best of a bad bunch but just because it is the best of that bunch does not mean that I can’t identify that it is still pretty poor. It’s a bit like League 1 or 2 (or maybe X-Factor for those who need a dumbed down analagy to comprehend – not you Ter) someone has got to win it but that doesn’t mean that it’s actually got any substantial quality to it.

well it's simple, either stop playing fm 2011 (i know you can’t stop cos you'll keep on playing) uninstall the game and dont post in this part of the forums

Erm, well how about no? I’ve purchased the game and have just as much right as anybody else to post in these forums. Who the hell are you to tell someone that they can’t voice an opinion?

To say it is "unplayable" is, first and foremost NOT TRUE as clearly there are millions of people playing it quite happily; secondly, shows a great deal of disrespect to the programmers; thridly, demontrates a complete lack of understanding of how vast a program FM is; and finally, makes the poster sound like the kind of spoiled brat who would upturn a scrabble board if his parents or friends were beating him at it.

Firstly I have never said that I disrespect the programmers, I may think that their time could be better spent developing the match engine and that I wonder if they actually watch football as I don’t feel that the match engine represents the game as well as it should but I don’t exactly think that is disrespectful, well not as much as calling me a spoiled brat for example. I’ve never pretended to understand how ‘vast’ the Fm program is so quite why you level that accusation at me is bizarre.

At the end of the day I am a paying customer like the rest of you, if you don’t like or agree with my views then quite frankly I couldn’t give a toss, none of you have any more authority or right than anyone else as to what can and can’t be said about your beloved FM I’m afraid.. To be honest in this whole thread only a small minority have come back with proper replies, the rest have just shown the standard level of juvenille stupidity that I have witnessed on these forums over the past 6 or 7 years that I’ve been viewing them.

I think what is more annoying is the issues that many people have with what should be simply installing, activating and playing the game without getting error messages and crashes.

I did not buy FM2010 as ever since FM 2007 I only buy the game every other year. The last two iterations of the game I have bought have been a nightmare to get working. FM 2009 had the unacceptable activation issue where despite buying it first thing in the morning the game could not beplayed until the evening of that day and this year I have had an issue (one I am not alone in having) of not being able to open the editor in order to change the English competition names only via Steam (I downloaded the game from Steam). It is these basic things going wrong that are putting me off buying the product in future. For FM 2011 it took my over 24 hours to finally find a solution to the editor problem for myself, despite trying the FAQ solutions first before posting on here, due to the lack of input from SI (okay I know Friday was busy but given it was in the BUgs Forumthen I would have expected staff to have been monitoring that forum as a priority before others).

I can accept that once started the game will have issues, because I know there are millions of lines of coding in the game and it is inevitable these will sometimes not work, but the issues of users notbeing able to install the game, open the editor, crashes etc - these are not acceptable at all. If the basics cannot be got right then what hope is there?

Having said that I am enjoying FM 2011 in the main. With skipping last year's release it is obviously a brand new game to me. The look of the 3D engine is much improved on FM 2009 - the new (at least to me) crowds, shading and outside stadium scenes all add to the atmosphere and the contract negotiations, backroom advice and new tab navigation system are all improvements from where I sit on previous games. There are stupid issues such as players with international bans not being able to play in pre-season games and the lack of certain responses for certain issues in player interaction are frustrations that could and should have been avoided. I'm just glad I don't play in Spain because fans of that league have a real gamebreaker issue regarding suspensions that definitely should have been patched.

No doubt there has been issues with installing the game over the last couple of years which people have become incredibly frustated with which is perfectly understandable.

The game itself though is by far the most realistic, fun and enjoyable game of it's type by a country mile imo. There will always be bugs in a game of such complex detail, but I think the support SI give each game (ie 3 patches) is excellent.

When you make any purchase in life, you expect the subject of that purchase to work ‘perfectly’. With computer games, it seems to be universally accepted that there will be bugs, flaws, imperfections etc. Why is that acceptable?

Surely you're taking the **** here right? Are you the one buying things or do you let your parents do it for you?

It's obvious you haven't been around much with a stupid statement like that. What is 'perfectly' anyway?

Surely you're taking the **** here right? Are you the one buying things or do you let your parents do it for you?

It's obvious you haven't been around much with a stupid statement like that. What is 'perfectly' anyway?

I think with the childish nature of your responses that you are the one who is most likely to be the one whose parents are buying things for you. Your attitude stinks and you have brought absolutely nothing of worthwhile note to this discussion.

Erm, well how about no? I’ve purchased the game and have just as much right as anybody else to post in these forums. Who the hell are you to tell someone that they can’t voice an opinion?

Since you think the game is unplayable and 'sub-standard' I can't see any reason why you would want to waste your time with such a thing. Or is it because you won't have anything to moan and whine about if you stopped playing?

The fact of the matter is the game is the best on the market, no other management game come even close, and a lot of people enjoy it a lot. I don't mind you having your (flawed) opinion but spouting garbage on the forum and voicing an opinion is not the same thing.

I think with the childish nature of your responses that you are the one who is most likely to be the one whose parents are buying things for you. Your attitude stinks and you have brought absolutely nothing of worthwhile note to this discussion.

Yeah, because you're the very epitome of maturity right? Listen, if your only agenda of coming on these forums is to spout garbage and negativity then I suggest you stop playing the game and crawl back into your basement. I think most people are getting very tired of it by now, me included. I don't reckon you'd be able to smell anyone else's attitude anyway, seeing as yours smells bad enough.

Since you think the game is unplayable and 'sub-standard' I can't see any reason why you would want to waste your time with such a thing. Or is it because you won't have anything to moan and whine about if you stopped playing?

The fact of the matter is the game is the best on the market, no other management game come even close, and a lot of people enjoy it a lot. I don't mind you having your (flawed) opinion but spouting garbage on the forum and voicing an opinion is not the same thing.

well clearly you do mind me having my opinion because you have told me to stop playing it and voicing them on here. If it bothers you that I have an opinion then simply don't look at this thread anymore, there are plenty of others for you to look at and make completely unfounded character assesments of people in.

Everybody has the right to have an opinion about the game and to express it freely on these forums. Constructive criticism is welcomed by the developers but lets stop the petty bickering and personal comments. You do not have to agree with each other but at least be civil.

Yeah, because you're the very epitome of maturity right? Listen, if your only agenda of coming on these forums is to spout garbage and negativity then I suggest you stop playing the game and crawl back into your basement. I think most people are getting very tired of it by now, me included. I don't reckon you'd be able to smell anyone else's attitude anyway, seeing as yours smells bad enough.

I don't think that anything I have said is in anyway immature (unlike yourself). My agenda is not to come on here and be negative but unless I am mistaken a big part of these forums is for people to voice their opinions on this product, just because in this instance mine doesn't blow sunshine up the arse of this and therefore displeases you doesn't mean that I'm going to not say anything. the last time I checked this was still a free country and the facists hadn't taken over SI. Please correct me if I'm wrong seeing as you obviously are the authority on SI and all things FM

I don't think that anything I have said is in anyway immature (unlike yourself).

Okey then, let's take a look then shall we, Mr Maturity:

It's like putting a pair of breat implants on a bimbo BOBFOC, yeah it might look good and be nice to play around with but a the end of the day she's still got the IQ of tin of Spam and a face like Freddie Krugger ball-bag.

Very mature. It's your opinion and you obviously have the right to have one, but this is immature rubbish and has nothing to do with constructive criticism of the game. Not to a civilised human being anyway.

As I've wasted my money on yet another unplayable, steaming pile of dig turd that is FM I may come back to it in a few months just so that I don't completely feel like I've crapped away my £'s but for now, quite frankly, SI can <insert appropriate word that some jobsworth mod will want to ban/warn me for> off!!!!

The game is unplayable, steaming pile of dig turd? Again, sure it's your opinion, but you have a way of expressing it that annoys me. The game is not perfect but it's definitely not unplayable, that is just rubbish. You express your opinions like you were a 10-year old spoiled brat. Or maybe you are one?

And the last sentence is just priceless. You don't call that immature? Having a go at the developers like that is beyond childish and I'm surprised you didn't receive the ban stick for it anyway. And these are just quotes I took from your first post. God knows what kind of garbage you've spouted, diguised as 'opinions', in the rest of the thread.

In my OP I included those kind of quotes to try and indicate that although I have issues with the game I do not take it or life that seriosuly. Obviously this is lost on you. I have not resorted singling out individuals for petty abuse unlike yourself. I may have included a touch of sarcasm here and there but outright, offensive, personal abuse no...and you have the audacity to suggest that I am banned from these forums when in fact I ahven't said anything anywhere near as rude or abusive as you.

In my OP I included those kind of quotes to try and indicate that although I have issues with the game I do not take it or life that seriosuly. Obviously this is lost on you. I have not resorted singling out individuals for petty abuse unlike yourself. I may have included a touch of sarcasm here and there but outright, offensive, personal abuse no...and you have the audacity to suggest that I am banned from these forums when in fact I ahven't said anything anywhere near as rude or abusive as you.

You can try and justify your poor choice of wording how much you want in hindsight. The fact remains that it came across as being childish and rude, it's quite sad that you're not man enough to realise that. But ignorance is bliss I suppose. You can remain firm in your bubble of make belief then and one day you'll actually understand that you might try to express your 'opinion' in a slightly more approachable way.

In really dont believe you two. So you both read and ignored post 41 then?

Hey djstreaky - You are absolutely entitled to an opinion and please do keep giving it. Could you PM me please - would love to chat more about your research and understand the finer points of your post.

As for the other comments - please people, let's try and be patient - if we don't give people the option to voice an opinion, how can we claim the game is made by fans for fans. Each and every one of you is important to us as a player, so try not to be too hard on somebody posting a question/comment that you might not initially agree with.

I've been playing since the start and have broken more keyboards/laptops than I care to admit, some out of constant use - some losing a vital game at the end of the season and being hurled across the room - whatever way you look at it - this is an 'emotional' game

Thanks