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    Exclamation Fm11 Worst version ever??

    Ok This is being editted as I have taken back these words of worst version ever lol. Its more the worst feature ever. Which in turn does ruin the whole game which seems to be great apart from this one irritating feature that many now have been very unhappy with. My feeling is dont bring something in unless its going to be working to a decent level. I am sure many people would rather player interaction to this level taken out if its this basic and childish. If you wish to read on and give positive comments or constructive ones please do ;-)

    Now I have been playing cm/fm for 20 years. Since i was 12/13 years old and I was one of the people who bought it on the release day. I have been one of its biggest fans. This game put me on the road to managment in which IRL I became the youngest coach/manager in the country when at 16 I took over from a manager who had given the team up. I had been helping out there as goalkeeper coach from age of 15 and became the youngest manager in the country. The team was u12s and I was only 4 years older than the players. I was in local and national press so I owe alot to this game although even from the age of 11 I was showing signs of becoming a manager by playing PBMs(play by mail management games) And even won league in 1st season aged 11 v adults lol

    Anyway my past not that important but I just wanted people to know how much I think of this game and how my views I feel are valid and hopefully something is done to save my fav game.

    In recent versions I have felt the game to over complicate things and feel so different regarding the display and interface. Also things have been brought in that I feel ruin it.
    Well fm 11 has lost it now. I took over Barnet on the demo last night and normally manage them. Anyway I think SI have left the game ideas/features in the baby creche section.

    I tranfer listed 4 players. All with different personalties. I did it as Barnet need money and these guys were either on high wages or of high value. All came to see me with the same question. why am I forcing them out. Then I was given the same possible answers for each players same question. I answered the same way. That the club needed the money etc. All said I am disrespecting them lol? Then I gave same answer and I got the same answer to all of them. Then there final answer was they better leave before they say something they regret? All repeating eachother word for word. Within 20 mins of playing the game I had come across something that for me makes the game unplayable.

    Some people prob wouldnt mind this sillyness and repetitive feature but for me it makes it feel like you have taken over the under 5 local team. The answers the players give is so immature and stupid it just makes me go erm... I feel embarrassed. player interaction to this level should never of been allowed into the game untill it was perfect. This is just silly.

    Now on the tactics section if you dont like the new set up on fm10 you can change it back to the set up you liked before. (Brill Feature) Anything with options and things that give you choice is awesome. But there is no option to go back to the prev feature. Not just that but the continuous and repetitive way you speak with players is annoying just after speaking with 2/3 I felt embarrassed I only had the same options to let the player know the meeting was over. Now Im not saying SI should of brought in 20/30 different ways to say bye or end of meeting. Im saying the game doesnt suite this interaction yet.

    In every case the players said they dont want to play for me anymore just cos I said they was being unprofessional. The club pays there wages and I told them the club needs to sell them for funds. Nothing personal on them. I am sure there will be many other things like this in the game and for me anyway its just too immature.

    For me its back to fm 06(the best version) and fm 10 is just playable and currently giving that a try.

    i would like to hear other peoples views of the restricitve and repetitive player interactions. and if theres anything else they should have kept the same or atleast given us the option ot go back to how it was before.

    Also if people have time or wish to answer these following features I cant believe were taken out from old fms or features I still cant believe are not in fm yet.
    Answer in numbered answers.

    1. Last match view!
    Was 1st on fm over 15 years ago! Just a little tab to check your last game. I used to use this all the time to remind myself if I had saved the game and just came back to it what had just happened and who played and also to see ratings/form etc. Now I have to click on club,fixtures,and then the match I want to see.

    2. Scout your own club.
    This feature was awesome. First brought in about 10 years ago. You could scout your own club and on the report you would see all the players picked for games. There rating in the last 10 games and also if the team won/lost/drawed/goals/conceded. If a player played in the reserves it also showed that and also had the same stats. It also showed when that players last game was and you could click(1 click) on that tab and see which players at a glance played most recent and which ones have not played for a while. Now to a point the game still has this feature but its tucked away and harder to view and you cant do it as simple as you could like this option. You also cant team view it on your whole club like you could back then.

    3. Position your own players!
    I think this feature was also brought in 10 years ago. I think on the 00/01 version. Then it dissapeared forever? For some of you who didnt play that version this was one of the best features ever.
    You could tell all 10 of your outfield players where you wanted them to be when the other team had the ball in certain areas. You could also place all 10 of your players where you want them when your team had the ball in certain areas. Making the game have a feel of great realism and making you feel you have done shadow training with your players. (for some who dont know this its what many coaches/managers do on the training pitch to let the players know where there wanted at certain times positional wise and also to gain the shape the manager is after)
    If you got this wrong like tell your players to push up and drop back to much from certain area squares they could lose fitness and condition. brill feature this was. Not just that but you could tell that speedy striker to stay on that last defender and never get what you get now of your speedy striker taking up wrong positions or your slow striker being the man looking to run in behind.

    4. Set instructions in matches given to players! (This is a feature that I cant believe has never appeared in cm/fm)
    ok so lets say its half time in a friendly and you are making 11 changes at half time. Now if you want to play the game properly and have your players having all the correct instructions this is going to take ages! Especially if most of them are new or trialists. You have to weigh up the game/away or home/attack or defend and it will take some time.
    Why oh why has nobody brought in a tab that has each player have set instructions they have when they play or when they come on as a sub. You could even have a tab of away or home instructions that you give that player and ofcourse you can edit if you change your mind on any of this. Would be best feature they could currently bring in.

    5. Seeing tactics/player instructions from prev games and your AM. (something also taken out from earler versions)
    I have seen alot in the forums complaining about not being able to set your reserve/u18 team tactics to how you want them to play. The only current option is use current match tactics.(which means copy 1st team) Not use tactics you set in the res/u18 tactics screen as some people think. In older version 00/01 and 01/02 you could look back at your reserve games and see what the AM did. You could also see what instructions he gave to each player which was awesome. As when you then bring that player into the 1st team you knew what he had been playing with in the reserves and he would hit the ground running as he would be playing the same way as he did in the reserves. It seems mad you cant now tell your AM how you want them to play and have to rely on what he wants (which you cant see now) or you have to ask your res/u18 to play same as the last 1st team match which could be completely the wrong tactics for the res/u18s next game. Also does copy 1st team mean copy all the player instructions also? I have never found this out yet.

    Now to a few minor things
    6. Pens taken and scored. On older versions you could see on a players stats how many of hes goals have come from pens and how many he had taken! Brill little feature. Ofcourse you can go to the league pens info but I want to see on hes profile page like before.

    7. Player Celebrations.
    Not sure if other people find every player celebrating the same way every time annoying but I do. On the older versions ofcourse you had no 3d. I suppose the development of the game this was always going to be tough to please people. For me the 2d was brill. Alot of the celebrations/goals was in your imagination. And for one this for me is better than watching better graphics of players doing silly things. now I know i dont have to watch in 3d but there is alot of things on the 3d I love. Also when you know something is there its hard to resist. just a shame the players dont celebrate more when they score in last minute compared to pulling a goal back. I mean having a players giving it the finger and punching air when 4-0 down??

    Im sure I have missed some things out but those are some things that has been on my mind and which I can think of now. Would be very interesting to see peoples views on all of this ;-)
    Last edited by cruiseylee; 23-10-2010 at 10:21.

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    And of course the only logical conclusion to all of this is that FM 2011 is the "worst version ever."

    Makes sense to me...

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    Glad to hear. You cant add all these new things to then put something in so basic that is so immature and repetitive. As I say this is on playing the game 20 mins. Im sure theres plenty more. Going to boot it up now. But my point is somethign so basic for me can ruin it. I didnt say for all. for some it may be the best. But to me the smallist thing can effect the whole feel of the game. And tbh player interation is a massive part of the game and how it feels. If this is an issue almost every day you play the game with the same questions/same answers and all players saying the same thing to the same questions/answers then for me its a terrible addition.

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    Everyone is entitled to their opinions but I think it's a hell of a stretch to call it the worst version ever based on those eight reasons.
    Last edited by Neil Brock; 22-10-2010 at 18:31.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Brock View Post
    Everyone is entitled to their opinions but I think it's a hell of a stretch to call it the worst version ever based on those seven reasons.
    I blame you brocky

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    Thats how much people dont read. And Brocky obviously didnt. I didnt say anything about those 7 things being the downfall of fm11. that was in general. My prob was the new player interactions. But I suppose I will need to wait for someone to read my post properly lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruiseylee View Post
    Thats how much people dont read. And Brocky obviously didnt. I didnt say anything about those 7 things being the downfall of fm11. that was in general. My prob was the new player interactions. But I suppose I will need to wait for someone to read my post properly lol.
    I've edited it to eight now. Cheers

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruiseylee View Post
    Thats how much people dont read. And Brocky obviously didnt. I didnt say anything about those 7 things being the downfall of fm11. that was in general. My prob was the new player interactions. But I suppose I will need to wait for someone to read my post properly lol.
    U mad brah?

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    Look in fairness some things can make a game horrible for some people - others can see something completely differently.

    Personally I think the conversations are a different take and a step in the right direction in regards to communicating with players. In older versions players could potentially sit in the reserves for prolonged periods of time without ever kicking up a fuss. Likewise selling and moving players on was as simple as a click of a button - there was no real downfall in doing so. Now you have the opportunity to explain your reasoning to players before doing so. Now I'm not going to claim it's perfect, but you have to realise it's a natural step. We'd love to have loads more options in there but it was feasible to do so for this version. We hope we can get some great feedback and add to this - much like we have to other features in the game. And yes massive apologies for skim-reading your post the first time around!

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    Thanks for a more constructive answer there Brocky,

    I understand this feature is needed and long over due. I for one used to get annoyed at the lack of convos or ways to communicate with your players. But I always felt I would rather it be out than be in and be poor. not just that but an option oo have it taken out if you really hated it. I mean you have to admit Brocky saying the same thing over and over to players you have transfer listed is a bit ott. Not just that but the way they talk to you and how basic and immature it is is so off putting. It reallty is like talking to a child over and over. And i t listed steve kabba, really experienced player. Many of my friends and players who used to play for me when thy were kids are on the game and if they answer the same way im gona call them up and take p$$$ lol.

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    I was actually just about to post a thread saying FM 11 is the best version ever. LOL

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    In one of the points I agree with the OP. All the interaction with the players is a bit repetitive, also the press conferences.
    But that's not a FM11 problem is a problem since you introduced this features so cames a point in my saves that I always say the same and don't bother with the press or the players say.
    Put the AM make the press and don't respond to players and journalists is the other way, because I don't won't to say always the same and get the same reactions over and over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marioneta View Post
    In one of the points I agree with the OP. All the interaction with the players is a bit repetitive, also the press conferences.
    But that's not a FM11 problem is a problem since you introduced this features so cames a point in my saves that I always say the same and don't bother with the press or the players say.
    Put the AM make the press and don't respond to players and journalists is the other way, because I don't won't to say always the same and get the same reactions over and over.
    So you mean when they come to you just dont answer them? I didnt even look for or try that option. i suppose if I am T listing a player i know what im gona get so may aswell just refuse to talk to them. And yea may leave conferences to AM, havnt tryed it yet.

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    my god, i actually read all that...

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    Quote Originally Posted by dr p wigwam View Post
    my god, i actually read all that...
    I know!

    Can you imagine having to read all that 100 times over and over in under a week like fm 11 player interactions. ;-)
    Last edited by cruiseylee; 23-10-2010 at 10:30.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruiseylee View Post
    Now I have been playing cm/fm for 20 years. Since i was 12/13 years old and I was one of the people who bought it on the release day. I have been one of its biggest fans. This game put me on the road to managment in which IRL I became the youngest coach/manager in the country when at 16 I took over from a manager who had given the team up. I had been helping out there as goalkeeper coach from age of 15 and became the youngest manager in the country. The team was u12s and I was only 4 years older than the players. I was in local and national press so I owe alot to this game although even from the age of 11 I was showing signs of becoming a manager by playing PBMs(play by mail management games) And even won league in 1st season aged 11 v adults lol

    Anyway my past not that important but I just wanted people to know how much I think of this game and how my views I feel are valid and hopefully something is done to save my fav game.

    In recent versions I have felt the game to over complicate things and feel so different regarding the display and interface. Also things have been brought in that I feel ruin it.
    Well fm 11 has lost it now. I took over Barnet on the demo last night and normally manage them. Anyway I think SI have left the game ideas/features in the baby creche section.

    I tranfer listed 4 players. All with different personalties. I did it as Barnet need money and these guys were either on high wages or of high value. All came to see me with the same question. why am I forcing them out. Then I was given the same possible answers for each players same question. I answered the same way. That the club needed the money etc. All said I am disrespecting them lol? Then I gave same answer and I got the same answer to all of them. Within 20 mins of playing the game I had come across something that for me makes the game unplayable.

    Some people prob wouldnt mind this sillyness and repetitive feature but for me it makes it feel like you have taken over the under 5 local team. The answers the players give is so immature and stupid it just makes me go erm... I feel embarrassed. player interaction to this level should never of been allowed into the game untill it was perfect. This is just silly.

    Now on the tactics section if you dont like the new set up on fm10 you can change it back to the set up you liked before. (Brill Feature) Anything with options and things that give you choice is awesome. But there is no option to go back to the prev feature. Not just that but the continuous and repetitive way you speak with players is annoying just after speaking with 2/3 I felt embarrassed I only had the same options to let the player know the meeting was over. Now Im not saying SI should of brought in 20/30 different ways to say bye or end of meeting. Im saying the game doesnt suite this interaction yet.

    In every case the players said they dont want to play for me anymore just cos I said they was being unprofessional. The club pays there wages and I told them the club needs to sell them for funds. Nothing personal on them. I am sure there will be many other things like this in the game and for me anyway its just too immature.

    For me its back to fm 06(the best version) and fm 10 is just playable and currently giving that a try.

    i would like to hear other peoples views of the restricitve and repetitive player interactions. and if theres anything else they should have kept the same or atleast given us the option ot go back to how it was before.
    Everyone is entitled to their opinion but thinking this is the worst version & FM06 the best is not a view that many (if any) will agree with on the forum.

    In terms of interaction I agree its far from perfect and it feels more like a puzzle box than a conversation currently. The problem is your dealing with a piece of software not a human being, it doesn't understand context or even the words on the screen it can only follow the path programmed when you make a selection.


    1. Last match view!
    Was 1st on fm over 15 years ago! Just a little tab to check your last game. I used to use this all the time to remind myself if I had saved the game and just came back to it what had just happened and who played and also to see ratings/form etc. Now I have to click on club,fixtures,and then the match I want to see.
    Don't really see the point, the information is all there for you to view.


    2. Scout your own club.
    This feature was awesome. First brought in about 10 years ago. You could scout your own club and on the report you would see all the players picked for games. There rating in the last 10 games and also if the team won/lost/drawed/goals/conceded. If a player played in the reserves it also showed that and also had the same stats. It also showed when that players last game was and you could click(1 click) on that tab and see which players at a glance played most recent and which ones have not played for a while. Now to a point the game still has this feature but its tucked away and harder to view and you cant do it as simple as you could like this option. You also cant team view it on your whole club like you could back then.
    Who scouts their own club? that what your coaches and AM is for. As you say the information is there and at the end of the day not everything can be on the front screen.


    3. Position your own players!
    I think this feature was also brought in 10 years ago. I think on the 00/01 version. Then it dissapeared forever? For some of you who didnt play that version this was one of the best features ever.
    You could tell all 10 of your outfield players where you wanted them to be when the other team had the ball in certain areas. You could also place all 10 of your players where you want them when your team had the ball in certain areas. Making the game have a feel of great realism and making you feel you have done shadow training with your players. (for some who dont know this its what many coaches/managers do on the training pitch to let the players know where there wanted at certain times positional wise and also to gain the shape the manager is after)
    If you got this wrong like tell your players to push up and drop back to much from certain area squares they could lose fitness and condition. brill feature this was. Not just that but you could tell that speedy striker to stay on that last defender and never get what you get now of your speedy striker taking up wrong positions or your slow striker being the man looking to run in behind.
    In FM10 the shape you see on the tactics screen is the defensive shape while the orders you give (team & player) create the offensive shape but this was not represented graphically. The function you want does not work alongside the current ME and I doubt it will ever return as it makes the matches more robotic.


    4. Set instructions in matches given to players! (This is a feature that I cant believe has never appeared in cm/fm)
    ok so lets say its half time in a friendly and you are making 11 changes at half time. Now if you want to play the game properly and have your players having all the correct instructions this is going to take ages! Especially if most of them are new or trialists. You have to weigh up the game/away or home/attack or defend and it will take some time.
    Why oh why has nobody brought in a tab that has each player have set instructions they have when they play or when they come on as a sub. You could even have a tab of away or home instructions that you give that player and ofcourse you can edit if you change your mind on any of this. Would be best feature they could currently bring in.
    This has been the subject of discussion on the forums and there is no way to please both sides of the argument as they contradict each other. In my opinion its currently the best way as team comes before player, you shape your team first and then drop players into the roles not the other way round.

    By far the biggest stumbling block is what do you do with players that play more than one position? Take a DC on defensive orders, what happens if you move him to DMC? the same roles aren't available to him so you would need to change them anyway.

    At of the day how much time does it really take to select a role and defensive/support/attack. If you do the subs from the 3d its even already on the pop up for you.


    5. Seeing tactics/player instructions from prev games and your AM. (something also taken out from earler versions)
    I have seen alot in the forums complaining about not being able to set your reserve/u18 team tactics to how you want them to play. The only current option is use current match tactics.(which means copy 1st team) Not use tactics you set in the res/u18 tactics screen as some people think. In older version 00/01 and 01/02 you could look back at your reserve games and see what the AM did. You could also see what instructions he gave to each player which was awesome. As when you then bring that player into the 1st team you knew what he had been playing with in the reserves and he would hit the ground running as he would be playing the same way as he did in the reserves. It seems mad you cant now tell your AM how you want them to play and have to rely on what he wants (which you cant see now) or you have to ask your res/u18 to play same as the last 1st team match which could be completely the wrong tactics for the res/u18s next game. Also does copy 1st team mean copy all the player instructions also? I have never found this out yet.
    Now this would be a good feature to bring back IMO but I suspect storing all the info is the problem here.


    Now to a few minor things
    6. Pens taken and scored. On older versions you could see on a players stats how many of hes goals have come from pens and how many he had taken! Brill little feature. Ofcourse you can go to the league pens info but I want to see on hes profile page like before.
    I can see how it might be useful but as you say its fairly minor.


    7. Player Celebrations.
    Not sure if other people find every player celebrating the same way every time annoying but I do. On the older versions ofcourse you had no 3d. I suppose the development of the game this was always going to be tough to please people. For me the 2d was brill. Alot of the celebrations/goals was in your imagination. And for one this for me is better than watching better graphics of players doing silly things. now I know i dont have to watch in 3d but there is alot of things on the 3d I love. Also when you know something is there its hard to resist. just a shame the players dont celebrate more when they score in last minute compared to pulling a goal back. I mean having a players giving it the finger and punching air when 4-0 down??
    Each version new animations are added to the 3d and more celebrations have been included this year. On FM10 though players celebrated in different ways depending on scoreline etc.

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    I would agree with you on a couple of your points but to say its the worst version ever i don't believe it is anywhere near,for me it has to be 09.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scholes=legend View Post
    I would agree with you on a couple of your points but to say its the worst version ever i don't believe it is anywhere near,for me it has to be 09.
    I think I need to rephrase really. Its more the worse feauture. But for me something like that makes the game awful due to interation with the players is everything to put you off the game as its all about the players at the end of the day. Its not something thats easily forgotten as you are deailing with them and that feature all the time while playing the game.

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    Can't say this version has me as hooked as previous ones but CM 03/04 is the worst version ever released.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HighT View Post
    Can't say this version has me as hooked as previous ones but CM 03/04 is the worst version ever released.
    Really? That was the 1st year the 2d engine was brought in. I actually really liked that. With the patches it was brill game. 1st time for res and u19 league tables also. Something i love doing so this feature made itr brill for me.

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    Hi cougar,

    Cant really quote that it would be massive lol.

    On the people prefer newer versions. Yes this is true. But many didnt play from 20 years ago. many still play 00/01 and 01/02 There are websites dedicated to it. Even updates of players and leagues with the old set up and interface. IMO fm 06 was the perfect lbalance between toughness/realism and interface was decent.

    And as I said in my post Cougar the option to turn this player interation should be avalable. SI must of known it was so basic and repetitive and many would hate it.

    And the scout your own club option for me gave me info on decisions I had made and you could see at a glance things that really helped. Like seeing at a glance which player had gone the longest without appearing for 1st or reserve team. plus the average rating for last 10 games was brill as was the stats on when thet player [played how the team did and you could compare that to the rest of your squad.

    And on the view last match option. For me I use this often(or used to) It was 1 click. Now it is 1 click, scroll down list and then click again. just a bit annoying and somethign that could have stayed no problem.

    Not sure why you think the players positions when the ball in is certain aread would not work. I ofcourse understand when it was in the game before there was no 3d or 2d engine. But surely telling players where you want them atb certain points is possible. It works on free kicks/corners. Why not general play. Is it really that complex?

    And on the player instructions section. Not sure what you mean. As it is at the mo you pick your team based on set default instructions. this for me is horrid as everytime you change a team tactic all the players are given new instructions. Surely a set player instructions can be set. As you say if the player plays a diff position then its no prob as then you can edit it how you wish.

    And glad you agree on bringing a few things back. Especially seeing what your Am is doing in matches for the res/u18. I for one really work hard on the res/u18 and am very frustrated when I havnt a clue what hes doing with them.

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    This is the first version of the game that's hooked me since 2005.

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    In response to your OP:

    First of all the half of your post where you complain about your team not working for you. Lets see:
    First you TL probably the four biggest players at the club. Of course they're going to be angry, if it happened at your job, where one day you were thought of as one of the better performers and the next some snotty-nosed brat out of college comes in as the new boss and puts you on final warning before a sacking, wouldn't you be ****ed off too? I bet you didn't even check how they measure up with the rest of the squad and the fans either.
    Tactics: Looking at the tactics screen it is in tactics>convert to classic. Please next time actually look at the game you are criticising before ctiticising (in other words give others the same respect you demand "But I suppose I will need to wait for someone to read my post properly").
    Of course you were being unprofessional, you don't summarily dismiss your top players on your first day at the office. You have to be a lot more circumspect than transfer-listing them and then saying "we don't need you". And if you think that player interaction is a lot more restrictive than FM06 then you play ****-all FM06 as that had player action which could be described as virtually non-existent.

    Now on to the things you say stop you from playing the game:
    1) go to team>fixtures>click on last match, problem solved. If you think three mouse clicks ruin a game, maybe you should try a different type of amusement.
    2) assistant reports and statistics pages do what you want in a far better and more logical way than what you're argueing for. And no it's not tucked away, if you think that something which is prominently displayed is tucked away I suggest going to specsavers pronto, and take a guide-dog with you.
    3) wibble/wobble was taken out of the game because it broke it. It was essentially an auto-win button. If you like auto-win buttons then I suggest playing CM10 or FIFA manager 2 games which prominently feature auto-win buttons (and 2 games far inferior to FM).
    4) mainly because when you bring in subs at least half the time you are doing it to change something (either a player is too tired or playing too badly or you're losing). Furthermore changing instructions takes about 30 seconds max, except for in your outlier situation of taking off all players at once in a challenge match (which are so unimportant I let my ass-man do them).
    5) control the reserves or U-19s. Even in real life most back-up teams play the same way as the senior team (how else are you going to get your prospects used to the way you play) and those that don't are going to play according to the style dictated by the reserve/u-19 manager. If you are focusing on the support teams winning over preparing their players for your first-team you're doing something pretty major wrong. Does any top team actually care IRL about reserve/u-19 cup/league trophies, as I've never seen it happening.
    6) not a problem, end of story.
    7) cosmetic feature which if SI have any sense is near the bottom of the list of things to do. If you want these things read my advice for no.3).


    Frankly you've come across in your posts as a whiny little child who is throwing his toys out of the pram because his auto-win button was taken away, and also one who tries to demonise and belittle every single person who disagrees with you. If you had actually tried to have an adult discussion I would have had a proper arguement (where I stayed polite and non-confrontational) instead of ripping you and your idiocy to shreds with the ample tools you gave me in your posts.

    Finally can I have the half-hour and 15IQ points I lost responding to your whiny screed back please.

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    @ Brian Shanahan's first reply....

    ** Stands and claps **

    Brilliant reply. I agree with pretty much all that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JCarroll View Post
    @ Brian Shanahan's first reply....

    ** Stands and claps **

    Brilliant reply. I agree with pretty much all that.
    Then you dont know the game or respect my views. And you could not have read all which has been said. Read my last post. Then you may understand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Shanahan View Post
    In response to your OP:

    First of all the half of your post where you complain about your team not working for you. Lets see:
    First you TL probably the four biggest players at the club. Of course they're going to be angry, if it happened at your job, where one day you were thought of as one of the better performers and the next some snotty-nosed brat out of college comes in as the new boss and puts you on final warning before a sacking, wouldn't you be ****ed off too? I bet you didn't even check how they measure up with the rest of the squad and the fans either.
    Tactics: Looking at the tactics screen it is in tactics>convert to classic. Please next time actually look at the game you are criticising before ctiticising (in other words give others the same respect you demand "But I suppose I will need to wait for someone to read my post properly").
    Of course you were being unprofessional, you don't summarily dismiss your top players on your first day at the office. You have to be a lot more circumspect than transfer-listing them and then saying "we don't need you". And if you think that player interaction is a lot more restrictive than FM06 then you play ****-all FM06 as that had player action which could be described as virtually non-existent.

    Now on to the things you say stop you from playing the game:
    1) go to team>fixtures>click on last match, problem solved. If you think three mouse clicks ruin a game, maybe you should try a different type of amusement.
    2) assistant reports and statistics pages do what you want in a far better and more logical way than what you're argueing for. And no it's not tucked away, if you think that something which is prominently displayed is tucked away I suggest going to specsavers pronto, and take a guide-dog with you.
    3) wibble/wobble was taken out of the game because it broke it. It was essentially an auto-win button. If you like auto-win buttons then I suggest playing CM10 or FIFA manager 2 games which prominently feature auto-win buttons (and 2 games far inferior to FM).
    4) mainly because when you bring in subs at least half the time you are doing it to change something (either a player is too tired or playing too badly or you're losing). Furthermore changing instructions takes about 30 seconds max, except for in your outlier situation of taking off all players at once in a challenge match (which are so unimportant I let my ass-man do them).
    5) control the reserves or U-19s. Even in real life most back-up teams play the same way as the senior team (how else are you going to get your prospects used to the way you play) and those that don't are going to play according to the style dictated by the reserve/u-19 manager. If you are focusing on the support teams winning over preparing their players for your first-team you're doing something pretty major wrong. Does any top team actually care IRL about reserve/u-19 cup/league trophies, as I've never seen it happening.
    6) not a problem, end of story.
    7) cosmetic feature which if SI have any sense is near the bottom of the list of things to do. If you want these things read my advice for no.3).


    Frankly you've come across in your posts as a whiny little child who is throwing his toys out of the pram because his auto-win button was taken away, and also one who tries to demonise and belittle every single person who disagrees with you. If you had actually tried to have an adult discussion I would have had a proper arguement (where I stayed polite and non-confrontational) instead of ripping you and your idiocy to shreds with the ample tools you gave me in your posts.

    Finally can I have the half-hour and 15IQ points I lost responding to your whiny screed back please.
    Only just saw this post. Wow Brian you really have something big up your A**. What a sad life you must lead to be so nasty and pathetic in a post to me which was only mentioning things I dont like about the game compared to prev versions! I am allowed my opinion! And I only wanted to hear peoples views on the new demo! and some of the things I loved in the game from the past! everyone has there own opinion. I wasnt nasty. I havnt been horrible to anyone so I have no idea what you are talking about.

    1. For a start (FOR ME) its an issue that was changed for no reason! View last game was a great feature that got removed for no reason. It could be tiny. It wasnt taking up alot of place and it was very useful. so your patheic negative comment is just laughable.

    2. Something is tucked away in my view if its 2 or more click away! Its 3/4 clicks away when before it used to be one! So get that right!

    3. How did player positions on and off the ball get you to win? If you did it right it helped and if you did it wrong it didnt. It took a bit of skill and not for 1 second did it guarentee for you to win.

    4. Changing 11 players instructions when you dont know there skills without looking at each players profile takes atleast 5/10 mins there are 23 individual instructions! If you are bringing players on who are trialists or they are players you dont know well then this takes a very long time. And having to do it everytime you make subs is silly. before the game you can view the players stats/abilities to help you decide player inst, when making suns you cant do it from the sub match screen. You should beable to set individual tactics once! then they stay like that when they play or you bring them on. And you can edit how you wish if you want. If you play the game properly which I do having to change set pieces and corners instructions everytime is time consuming and annoyong. And how the hell can you say friendlies are not important? Wow shows what little you know about the game. You need them to blend, give confidence to your team, get everyone match fit, get confidence up, decide what does and doesnt work,

    5. This once again shows your inept brain. I didnt once say I didnt want them playign like the 1st team! I said I dont want them using the exact same tactics! When you are away with your 1st team and you are defending or wanting to counter attack but your res and u18 both have easy home games u want them to go and attack on why would you want them defending? Also as I said you dont want your AM doing it fully as he may set them up differently to how you do things with the 1st team. so both ways is defeatest. The only way is bring in a AM who closely believed and plays how you are with the 1st team.

    6. Who said it was a problem? It was an insight on something that was a nice touch on prev versions. all I was saying was i liked it that way. Im not going mad or making an issue out of it.

    7. Erm it isnt hard to programme players not celebrating like they have won when they have lost! I was 4-0 down to Arsenal as im Barnet and it was in the pre season friendly. We score and my player goes mad, pumping hes fist and doing a Tore Andre Flo bird celebration?? Just silly.

    To end you sound a sad, negative, lonely person. I really feel for you. This game is obviously your life and you may be paid to defend it. People are allowed there opinions! For me I was only criticisiing the same questions, same answers player interaction. for me it kills the game. FOR ME! It is still a great game. And my title of worst game ever if you read back was changed to worse feature ever. Altho for me the feature makes nearly all other fms much better.This new feature makes the game just lose it realism and feel to it.

    And lastly on my view about players not wanting to play for me. Erm. They are paid players! The club owns them. I have already transfer listed them due to the clubs finacial state and I wanted to bring my own players in. Players in real life play on being tranfer listed! they still play there best and are in the shop windown if they play well to move to a bigger club if they felt they was good enuf. a player in real life does not act in that way of crying like a baby and feeling disrespected and being against me when I said to them i was doing it for the clubs best interests. And yes I did check how good they was. I watch them most weeks irl also. But players I was bringing in was just as good and on alot less money. Also I had players with high stars in the squad with much less wages to take there place so I did give it thought, Plus one had a 4/5 month injury(Izale mcleod)

    Anyway for all to say the same thing to they same answers etc was so silly. Not one bit of variation or difference. Not sure what you are talking about regarding that tactics bit? aqll I said on that was its great you can go back to how you used to prefer it.

    And lastly I do not play the game for it to be easy. I hate easy. I like a challenge. Why do you think I pick Barnet or play lower league management! so once again your views and comments are about as stupid and immature as the games interation feature. Maybe it was you they was using as the mock test for the game ;-)
    Last edited by cruiseylee; 23-10-2010 at 00:53.

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    It's a bit harsh after the demo being released for a day to say it's the worst ever version. I think you need to wait till all the patches are in before you can properly judge it.

    It's not radically different from 10, as far as I can see. Frankly I think we just fear change, I know I do.

    SI could make a completly realistic football management game. They could spend millions of pounds using the most advanced computing systems in the world and end up with a version where Rooney says he wants to leave one day and signs a new contract the next, where every player is totally accurate to real life and each have a unique personality. They could do this, the version would cost a couple of grand to buy and you'd need a super-computer to run it, but they could do it. I'm glad they don't frankly cause then you'd just have a second job to go to that you don't get paid for, working with a bunch of over-paid and spoiled ingrates.

    It is just a game, it retails at 30 bucks and is a pretty good simulator. I know some of it will be repetitive, games do tend to do that but for me the pro's if FM always outweigh the con's.

    You're entitled to your opinion and at least you found out you don't like it on the demo before you shed out 30 quid buying the game. Guess that's what the demo is for then and it worked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yadda View Post
    It's a bit harsh after the demo being released for a day to say it's the worst ever version. I think you need to wait till all the patches are in before you can properly judge it.

    It's not radically different from 10, as far as I can see. Frankly I think we just fear change, I know I do.

    SI could make a completly realistic football management game. They could spend millions of pounds using the most advanced computing systems in the world and end up with a version where Rooney says he wants to leave one day and signs a new contract the next, where every player is totally accurate to real life and each have a unique personality. They could do this, the version would cost a couple of grand to buy and you'd need a super-computer to run it, but they could do it. I'm glad they don't frankly cause then you'd just have a second job to go to that you don't get paid for, working with a bunch of over-paid and spoiled ingrates.

    It is just a game, it retails at 30 bucks and is a pretty good simulator. I know some of it will be repetitive, games do tend to do that but for me the pro's if FM always outweigh the con's.

    You're entitled to your opinion and at least you found out you don't like it on the demo before you shed out 30 quid buying the game. Guess that's what the demo is for then and it worked.

    Im affraid your wrong.

    The player interactions are here to stay! And no way of removing them. And this repetitive player interations is how its going to be in the game. The same convo, the same questions, the same answers with every player in the world. Didnt SI see any prob with this? For me kills the game. I can take almost anything else but your chats with players has to happen in this version as far as i can see to be successful or keep morale etc up. And that means having to deal with players in this repetitve way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruiseylee View Post
    Im affraid your wrong.

    The player interactions are here to stay! And no way of removing them. And this repetitive player interations is how its going to be in the game. The same convo, the same questions, the same answers with every player in the world. Didnt SI see any prob with this? For me kills the game. I can take almost anything else but your chats with players has to happen in this version as far as i can see to be successful or keep morale etc up. And that means having to deal with players in this repetitve way.
    an easy solution to your problem then is to not buy the game, go back to playing your favorite version and wait for next year

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    Quote Originally Posted by manworker View Post
    an easy solution to your problem then is to not buy the game, go back to playing your favorite version and wait for next year

    If I cant overide the current talk to players or atleast get away with it then ofcourse I will have to stick with 2010. which is a great game. many things not as good in it compared to earlier versions as i pointed out but ofcourse it has mnay new things that are awesome. one of the best things on fm 2010 was giving instructions to tell Am to leave a player out of a res game or have a player in your 1st team aval for res games. I was calling for that for years. having to switch 20/40 players on every game my reserves played was horrible. As you also had to shift the whole youth team up so he ditn play any rubbish yts players infront of your decent young players in the reseves. Also the oprion to move a whole squad up to a higher team or move them all down was brill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruiseylee View Post
    Im affraid your wrong.

    The player interactions are here to stay! And no way of removing them. And this repetitive player interations is how its going to be in the game. The same convo, the same questions, the same answers with every player in the world. Didnt SI see any prob with this? For me kills the game. I can take almost anything else but your chats with players has to happen in this version as far as i can see to be successful or keep morale etc up. And that means having to deal with players in this repetitve way.
    No mate, I'm not wrong. Player interaction, with all parts of FM, is steadily improving. At least there is player interaction in the game now. Had you read my post, properly, you might realise why it is repetitive. This is a game. There are limitations to how realistic you can make a management simulation, still make it a game and retail at a reasonable price. Again, it's the demo, you don't like it, stop telling people they are wrong.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by yadda View Post
    No mate, I'm not wrong. Player interaction, with all parts of FM, is steadily improving. At least there is player interaction in the game now. Had you read my post, properly, you might realise why it is repetitive. This is a game. There are limitations to how realistic you can make a management simulation, still make it a game and retail at a reasonable price. Again, it's the demo, you don't like it, stop telling people they are wrong.
    I think that the question should be another one.

    Is it so important to have player interaction in the game?
    Or it would be better to improve other areas of it?

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    For FM to be a good simulation, in my opinion, it must have player interaction along with the other additions, otherwise you could just strip it bear to match day. I like all the added aspects of the game makes the game feel more immersive.

    I am finding that player interaction is an excellent part of the game but and it's qualified but - it appears to be flawed.

    I have been experimenting with the interaction and it feels limited in some aspects. You can revisit and get a different reaction or even a half apology but there's still a lot of over reaction.

    It could be that you need to be in post for awhile before the players start to respond positively, regardless of your rep. Anyway I will continue to play around with it and see how it devlopes. I am sure if it is a flaw then a little bit of recoding to tone down the players "over excited" comments will be made.

    K
    Last edited by Kazza; 23-10-2010 at 09:46.

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    I have to agree. After playing the demo for a few hours it is back to FM10 for me. Player interactions are frankly embarrassing. I seriously just can't face that repetitive baby talk over and over again. I guess I will see how it all turns out after the game has been patched fully and how people are reacting to it.

    I applaud SI for trying, but this really does not seem to work. The rest of the game looks great to me, but PI is a real killer. FM10 is worth another year anyway

    Example:
    Best Striker: I want to leave
    Me: I want you to stay, so we can win things,
    BS: I can't wait that long.
    Me: I will look at it at the end of the season.
    BS: I can't believe how much you are disrespecting me. I can't work with you.
    Me: K. Lets talk about this later.
    BS: I better leave before I say something I regret.

    *Sigh*
    Last edited by aaron70; 23-10-2010 at 10:03.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yadda View Post
    No mate, I'm not wrong. Player interaction, with all parts of FM, is steadily improving. At least there is player interaction in the game now. Had you read my post, properly, you might realise why it is repetitive. This is a game. There are limitations to how realistic you can make a management simulation, still make it a game and retail at a reasonable price. Again, it's the demo, you don't like it, stop telling people they are wrong.
    Well Its just my opinion you are wrong then. CM/FM has been fine without player interaction to this detail for nearly 20 years. And I also believe you are wrong as SI themselves have said many times they will not bring features in till they are happy with it. But Im affraid they have this very wrong. Its way to limited as some have agreed with me. Not just that but me T listing players and then them storming out befor they say somethign they regret also happens if yoiu ask them nicely to work on a move or work with an experienced player within your squad. And for some of the negative childish comments this game is perfect for you guys ;-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruiseylee View Post
    Well Its just my opinion you are wrong then. CM/FM has been fine without player interaction to this detail for nearly 20 years. And I also believe you are wrong as SI themselves have said many times they will not bring features in till they are happy with it. But Im affraid they have this very wrong. Its way to limited as some have agreed with me. Not just that but me T listing players and then them storming out befor they say somethign they regret also happens if yoiu ask them nicely to work on a move or work with an experienced player within your squad. And for some of the negative childish comments this game is perfect for you guys ;-)
    Yes it is just your opinion, remember that before you call people childish for not agreeing with you. Christ almighty, just don't buy the chuffing game then.

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    i dont really see why you want the option to scout your own team.

    if you go go any of your players profile screens you can view scouting reports on them from all of your coaches. you can also see stats and all of that other stuff you cant live without in the stats tab on the player profile. it just takes a couple of clicks to get to what you want to see, its not that hard

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    Quote Originally Posted by manworker View Post
    i dont really see why you want the option to scout your own team.

    if you go go any of your players profile screens you can view scouting reports on them from all of your coaches. you can also see stats and all of that other stuff you cant live without in the stats tab on the player profile. it just takes a couple of clicks to get to what you want to see, its not that hard
    No you cant. You obviously didnt play fm 00/01. what im on about is seeing the whole team on 1 page with tabs and info at a glance! Not 30/50 clicks going to each player to see wat u want, as then u wud also have to memorise all that info or write it down. way ott.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruiseylee View Post
    No you cant. You obviously didnt play fm 00/01. what im on about is seeing the whole team on 1 page with tabs and info at a glance! Not 30/50 clicks going to each player to see wat u want, as then u wud also have to memorise all that info or write it down. way ott.
    or if you dont want to look at one player you can always change the view when you are on your squad overview page.
    i bet you didnt even look for the tab. its at the top right just so you know

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    Not sure what you mean? If you mean the overview which is for single stats then that is not answering what I said. you cant mean that so im not sure what overview you are on about.

    Let me explain again. in 00/01 you could tell one of your scouts to scout your own team. It was a feature where if you do it when you next play a game all the players that featured in that game would appear on that scouts page Not just that but you would see all those 11/14 players in the same page with lots of diff info bars. Rating, played, goals, conceded, won, lost, and you could assess over a longr persiod of time at a glance your whole squad and how your team has done with those players appearing. you also got the last 10 games played by all players whether for the 1st team or the reserves with there average for the last 10 games. It was brill feature and was something i used alot. Many people prob never used it or thought to actually pick there own team that there scout scouts. On this old version you could only sign a squad of 50 players max. I used to add myself as managers of welsh teams and use those as my youth teams lol. I had port talbot as my under 17's and cwmbran and my u-19's. kind of improvising on whch I knew would be a feature added not to far away. You also had 3 players "starred out" as your 3 best players. not sure why they ever stopped that either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yadda View Post
    SI could make a completly realistic football management game. They could spend millions of pounds using the most advanced computing systems in the world and end up with a version where Rooney says he wants to leave one day and signs a new contract the next, where every player is totally accurate to real life and each have a unique personality. They could do this, the version would cost a couple of grand to buy and you'd need a super-computer to run it, but they could do it. I'm glad they don't frankly cause then you'd just have a second job to go to that you don't get paid for, working with a bunch of over-paid and spoiled ingrates.
    This made me lol.

    But anyway, I know the player interactions are pretty basic and robotic but it's the FIRST time it's been introduced. Maybe by FM2012/13/14/15 we'll have an absolutely brilliant player interaction system that will make people say "OMG I can't believe the game didn't have this feature back in FM2010, I'm glad they introduced it in FM2011 etc. etc.". Football Manager is essentially a never-ending project towards an unreachable goal but as long as you can turn round and say "hey I like this better than the last one" that's all that matters.

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    If there wasn't for the terrible skin, and a few ME animation glitches, this version would have been the best one EVER!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Igorchete View Post
    If there wasn't for the terrible skin, and a few ME animation glitches, this version would have been the best one EVER!
    Igor are u serious?? The skin is default on the demo. On the real game there will be options. also stadiums and pics and other skins are avalable to download once the game is out. Thats just part of the demo the current skin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruiseylee View Post
    Then I gave same answer and I got the same answer to all of them. Within 20 mins of playing the game I had come across something that for me makes the game unplayable.
    I respect the points you've raised, regarding how you feel let down. But I think to brand it unplayable is an over-reaction. I mean, the players you mention aren't even in your plans - and their interaction is enough to make you ditch the game? You mention going back to try FM10, but you're only going to find the same thing there.

    Can't you accept the poor interaction you mention and enjoy the other aspects of the game?

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    As the same as everyone here, I respect your views. Personally I very much disagree with you in all your arguments, but that's my personal view, and found FM 11 to be the first FM game I've decied to buy straight after playing the demo (the previous years versions I've waited a few months beforeI have decied to buy the game).

    I have to say, I can see why the players are complaining and their "immaturity" is udnerstandable if they are the biggest earners. Yes maybe could have done with some variety but it's a new feature and it think it's more than adequate. As for the 3D and celebrations, I love them! Enrages me when the opposition scores against me when im playing at home and celebrates!

    I'm saddened to hear you haven't enjoyed the demo - as said previously it's the most excited version I've found for me - but hey ho, atleast you have a version you do enjoy! =)

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    Quote Originally Posted by darkson01 View Post
    As the same as everyone here, I respect your views. Personally I very much disagree with you in all your arguments, but that's my personal view, and found FM 11 to be the first FM game I've decied to buy straight after playing the demo (the previous years versions I've waited a few months beforeI have decied to buy the game).

    I have to say, I can see why the players are complaining and their "immaturity" is udnerstandable if they are the biggest earners. Yes maybe could have done with some variety but it's a new feature and it think it's more than adequate. As for the 3D and celebrations, I love them! Enrages me when the opposition scores against me when im playing at home and celebrates!

    I'm saddened to hear you haven't enjoyed the demo - as said previously it's the most excited version I've found for me - but hey ho, atleast you have a version you do enjoy! =)

    So you think a player celebrating like hes won the world cup is good when hes team is 4-0 down and game is over lol. I have nothing against players celebrating? Not sure where you thought that was an issue. I said its silly how they celebrate when the game is over. I think its great if they celebrate a big goal or important one. But for me on 2010 which is wat i was on about and im sure its the same on fm 11. Not seen yet. But what you commented on was my prob with recent versions. not 2011. also if you want to talk to 5 year olds and have the same convo 100 of times a week exactly the same then its a great game for u lol.

    As I say I gave 4 diff players, with diff ages, diff personalitys the same action. T listed them and then gave the same answer to them all. And I had a 3/4 answer convo exactly the same with all 4 players.

    Should of been left how it was. and really made sure when it was introduced hundreds of variations and answers/questions was avalable. Or as I have said lots of times but nobody responded and thats the option to have it how it was in fm 10.

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    It's way to early to call FM11 the worst version ever based only on the demo, as it is way too early to call it the best ever.

    I must admit, I have only been playing since FM09. I found FM09 overly complicated, but still enjoyable. However, I LOVED FM10, and, so far in FM11, I love it too (though not yet as much as 10, but it's just the demo).

    In the OP, the player talks are mentioned. Keep in mind- this is the first year that these have been implemented, so you really can't expect them to be "all there" just yet.

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    Or you could just look at the Reports and Stats sections on each player's profile which gives you all of that at any time.

    Star players are often mentioned on the team information screen.

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    Er you can also look at the "Assistant Report" on the squad page which shows where your team is strong and where it is weak, what players need to be replaced and what players suit the formation you are playing... Having scout reports for your team is already in the game from the very start you just have to find them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by j4ck94 View Post
    Er you can also look at the "Assistant Report" on the squad page which shows where your team is strong and where it is weak, what players need to be replaced and what players suit the formation you are playing... Having scout reports for your team is already in the game from the very start you just have to find them.
    Are you being serious?? Thats easy to see. I wasnt on about getting reports on players at any time. thats beebn in the game years. I was on about seeing everything how you want it from a view of all players in the same screen. which I think was new for 2010 or was it fm 09 this custom filter tab was brought in. I have only played fm 2010 for a few weeks now and just didnt see it. I didnt play fm 09. Hated it. So this is somethign new for me which is really good.

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    Best ever.

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    I agree with the OP, to a degree. This FM 2011 Demo is the worst FM 2011 Demo ever.

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    Cruiseylee,

    oh well, no need to buy it, no need to be on the boards, time for you to go play Tetris

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brisvegas View Post
    Cruiseylee,

    oh well, no need to buy it, no need to be on the boards, time for you to go play Tetris

    Erm as a paying member for 20 years I think Im free to my views. So why dont you go away if you dont like opinions. Im here to listen to other peoples views and feelings on it. That is allowed!

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruiseylee View Post
    Erm as a paying member for 20 years I think Im free to my views. So why dont you go away if you dont like opinions. Im here to listen to other peoples views and feelings on it. That is allowed!
    And I am expressing my view that you should go play Tetris.

    I don't give a rats that you have been a paying member for 20yrs, comments like that make you sound like a bit of a tool.
    You are nit picking a some what minor details in the whole spectrum of things, classic can't see the forest for the trees scenario.

    All I can see is that you are trying to be sensationalist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brisvegas View Post
    And I am expressing my view that you should go play Tetris.

    I don't give a rats that you have been a paying member for 20yrs, comments like that make you sound like a bit of a tool.
    You are nit picking a some what minor details in the whole spectrum of things, classic can't see the forest for the trees scenario.

    All I can see is that you are trying to be sensationalist.
    No I was giving my views underneath that main title. I was hoping for it to get some interest but I was also hoping people would see my views. See i love the game in general and just have bones with this one feature. I also wanted ot get some views on some things that are not in fm anymore and some were my fav things in the game. I mean also ehat happend to the 2nd 11 in scout report?? now its just 1 line up and your youth one. I really loved seeing my 2nd 11 and who is progressing into the 2nd 11

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    In fairness - you've probably annoyed most people with your title of "FM11 worst version ever".

    Given that the average player of FM plays for 240 hours, to have determined that after less than 48 hours of the demo is slightly controversial. You've hidden your more balanced views behind a tabloid headline. You've earned a right to your views, but others have earned a right to disregard sensationalism. It's a shame because your more considered views make a lot of sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt - SEGA View Post
    In fairness - you've probably annoyed most people with your title of "FM11 worst version ever".

    Given that the average player of FM plays for 240 hours, to have determined that after less than 48 hours of the demo is slightly controversial. You've hidden your more balanced views behind a tabloid headline. You've earned a right to your views, but others have earned a right to disregard sensationalism. It's a shame because your more considered views make a lot of sense.
    Thanks Matt.

    I suppose my own frustration at the game having something that made it unplayable for me was upsetting. "edit" I have been playing fm longer than anyone"edit" To ( I have been playing Fm from the very 1st day). I was playing management games b4 CM and when this came along its been the only game for me. My headline was just to get some views I suppose. once people read my thead I was hoping for some feedback and nice comments. I havnt been nasty to anyone and just want this game to be the best. I just feel player interaction awful. thats all. the rest of my comments were just about FM in general compared to prev versions thats all. Ofcourse it is nto the worst Version. But 100% its the worst feature. and for me that does ruin the whole game so I was kinda in 2 minds what to put as my title.

    Im sure I will still play the game. Im sure I will buy it. And I will just have to get around the player interaction as best i can.
    Last edited by cruiseylee; 23-10-2010 at 10:33.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruiseylee View Post
    Thanks Matt.

    I suppose my own frustration at the game having something that made it unplayable for me was upsetting. I have been playing fm longer than anyone. I was playing management games b4 CM and when this came along its been the only game for me. My headline was just to get some views I suppose. once people read my thead I was hoping for some feedback and nice comments. I havnt been nasty to anyone and just want this game to be the best. I just feel player interaction awful. thats all. the rest of my comments were just about FM in general compared to prev versions thats all. Ofcourse it is nto the worst Version. But 100% its the worst feature. and for me that does ruin the whole game so I was kinda in 2 minds what to put as my title.

    Im sure I will still play the game. Im sure I will buy it. And I will just have to get around the player interaction as best i can.
    So player interaction is awful, compared to what??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brisvegas View Post
    So player interaction is awful, compared to what??
    compared to it being how it was in all other versions. in fm10 for instance. I would rather somethign not be in Fm than it be in at 10% working. It destroyed the feeling of the whole game as you cant keep out of your head all players are saying the same thing and not wanting to improve or listen to you. I mean I saw someone say They was Chelsea as an ex international as there rep. he asked one of the promising u21 players to learn from Lamps and he stormed out of the office before he said somethign hed regret lol/ as I have said. Its so basic and immature how it is. I hope to god they can take it out of the main game or alteast have an option on start up to play without it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruiseylee View Post
    compared to it being how it was in all other versions. in fm10 for instance. I would rather somethign not be in Fm than it be in at 10% working. It destroyed the feeling of the whole game as you cant keep out of your head all players are saying the same thing and not wanting to improve or listen to you. I mean I saw someone say They was Chelsea as an ex international as there rep. he asked one of the promising u21 players to learn from Lamps and he stormed out of the office before he said somethign hed regret lol/ as I have said. Its so basic and immature how it is. I hope to god they can take it out of the main game or alteast have an option on start up to play without it.
    For sure there are always things that aren't perfect in FM, EVERY edition has a bug bear, I think the interactions in this game are a whole lot better than FM2010. As mentioned not perfect but I would think they are able to be perfected a little bit more via a patch.

    A better title for this thread could of been.

    Hey Guys here are my issues with Player Interactions

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruiseylee View Post
    I have been playing fm longer than anyone.
    I can't take you seriously any more.

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    You're calling this one the worst version ever BASED in a DEMO????

    shame on you

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    Quote Originally Posted by FM_player View Post
    You're calling this one the worst version ever BASED in a DEMO????

    shame on you
    Yes because its set in stone! If you read what I said its not going to change! Player interaction is going to be the same when the game is out. its a new feature that is so basic it makes the whole game feel wrong for me.

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    Keep it civil, please.

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    surre, sorry that one

    Anyone can say that this is the worst version ever whitout play a all season.

    Let's wait for the original ;)

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    I have to agree with the comments made about player interaction. Every conversation seems to end in the same way. Been messing around as Montrose in the Scottish 3rd division. Anyway had some conversation with players suggested some tutoring and such. Out of all the 13 players i made suggestion to only 1 accepted the suggestions i made as manager to improve there game. At first i though the players didn't respect my suggestion due to manager reputation.

    I reloaded and tested this with my reputation set as International Player, again with Montrose. The result was the same only one player took the suggestion,it doesn't matter if its perfered moves or tutoring. Now with Montrose being a part time team. I cant see them being able to dismiss the advice of an former International Player so easily.

    The only conversation i could get my players to agree on that didn't in. "I am going to leave before i say something i regret" was talking about players performance in the same match. Every time that also just came back to me with the same comment "I will do better next time". There seems to be a lack of response in the conversation and players seem to stubborn to accept the advice you give them to.

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    So far for me this is the best version of FM since FM07, which is arguable the best ever. I will resever my judgment for when the full game comes out but I think this will be better than FM10, it will be better than FM09, it is definately a lot better than FM08 and it could just get ahead of FM07

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    @Cruiseylee: Why should I bother respond to you when your only response to anyone who doesn't agree with everything you say is "you didn't read my post you're evil". Frankly I ripped your points to shreds, your most legitimate one amounting to an extra thirty seconds of work. And yes everything you're saying is tucked away out of sight completely is actually available in an absolute maximum of 5 clicks. Yes that is really a lot of work to do, I'm sorry!

    I still stand by my original assertion that your OP is just a childish reaction to SI taking away the auto-win button which was in earlier versions of FM. IF you don't like that then I would suggest severley modifying your posting style on these forums to include thinking ideas through and consideration for others when they point out the flaws in your strawmen arguements.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Shanahan View Post
    @Cruiseylee: Why should I bother respond to you when your only response to anyone who doesn't agree with everything you say is "you didn't read my post you're evil". Frankly I ripped your points to shreds, your most legitimate one amounting to an extra thirty seconds of work. And yes everything you're saying is tucked away out of sight completely is actually available in an absolute maximum of 5 clicks. Yes that is really a lot of work to do, I'm sorry!

    I still stand by my original assertion that your OP is just a childish reaction to SI taking away the auto-win button which was in earlier versions of FM. IF you don't like that then I would suggest severley modifying your posting style on these forums to include thinking ideas through and consideration for others when they point out the flaws in your strawmen arguements.
    You did not rip one thing to shreads lol? Your post was actually sad and funny at the same time. Everything I mentioned for me was brill in prev games! Thats my opinion and not yours so how you can rip my opinions on what makes the game good for me is brilliant lol. Its like saying blue is my fav colour and you coming back with dont be silly red is the best lol. I told it from my view and from experience. Many people have agreed with me and even 2 SI people said my points were valid and I had some good ideas. hmm now what does that make your points now? I have seen post after post about the player interaction being awful. So we are all wrong and you are right yea, hmm ok. And when did I say anything about people being evil? Im totally lost there.

    My posts are based on facts and my opinion. You cant argue agaisnt that. I know what I like and I know how the game feels to me. The taking out of many of the features I mentioned made thr game less than what it could be, thats all. Its still brill and fm 10 I have really got into but my fav always has been fm 06. And to make sure I didnt win easy on that game I took over barnet! I editted them into the conference! I made a system to follow which made the game hard to win! by never signing any players or players that have ever played pro football! Is that someone who wants an auto win button? If you win easy without any hard work or time and effort it makes it un-enjoybale. I also only signed ex Barnet players and free players under 17 with rep below 2000 to make sure barnets youth system was realistic. I worked hard my yts players and Reserves and took time and effort to blood them in and bring them thru. so your claims I want to win is so false it makes your posts a joke.

    I even once took on Leyton and eddited them into the conf south. I started with no players and no staff or anything. And I had to work my way up. I kept a system I knew would really make it tought to do well and it took me till my 3rd season to get promoted. I loved the losing as was still seeing my club progress slowly. Anyway I dont wish to answer any of your posts again I have learned anyone so negative and nasty and sarcy isnt worth the time.

    thanks for the support and nice constructive comments from most of you ;-)

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    I think cruise makes several valid points, and we should encourage this type of criticism--the kind that actually helps. And even more if it comes from a customer from 20 years.

    I agree with most of your points like i said; but as others replied, the title takes lost away from more people simply debating this and not just being annoyed about it.

    Cheers cruise.

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    FM11 is clearly the worst version if you still want to be playing Championship Manager 2 (which I suspect is the problem for many critics)

    The game has changed - if you don't like it then there is nothing stopping you playing CM2.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruiseylee View Post
    Thanks Matt.

    I suppose my own frustration at the game having something that made it unplayable for me was upsetting. I have been playing fm longer than anyone. I was playing management games b4 CM and when this came along its been the only game for me. My headline was just to get some views I suppose. once people read my thead I was hoping for some feedback and nice comments. I havnt been nasty to anyone and just want this game to be the best. I just feel player interaction awful. thats all. the rest of my comments were just about FM in general compared to prev versions thats all. Ofcourse it is nto the worst Version. But 100% its the worst feature. and for me that does ruin the whole game so I was kinda in 2 minds what to put as my title.

    Im sure I will still play the game. Im sure I will buy it. And I will just have to get around the player interaction as best i can.

    I think statements like this are the reason some people are being a touch harsh. You have not been playing FM/CM longer than anyone you have been playing it AS long as some people. I myself have been playing CM/FM since it's very first incarnation and yes i was even playing management games before that way back on the Spectrum and other machines older than i care to admit.

    I think if you toned down the sensationalist comments like this one and other comments like it you may have an easier time getting a fruitful debate started.

    I can't really comment on the player interaction as i haven't downloaded the demo yet (trying to but my library computer time is about to run out with the demo only 66% complete :-( ) but like others have said it is a brand new feature and will take a couple of versions to get right. I know thats not ideal but i think i will be able to live with it. If it ruins your game then fair enough don't buy the full version and wait till it is fixed to your liking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fuzzrab View Post
    I think statements like this are the reason some people are being a touch harsh. You have not been playing FM/CM longer than anyone you have been playing it AS long as some people. I myself have been playing CM/FM since it's very first incarnation and yes i was even playing management games before that way back on the Spectrum and other machines older than i care to admit.

    I think if you toned down the sensationalist comments like this one and other comments like it you may have an easier time getting a fruitful debate started.

    I can't really comment on the player interaction as i haven't downloaded the demo yet (trying to but my library computer time is about to run out with the demo only 66% complete :-( ) but like others have said it is a brand new feature and will take a couple of versions to get right. I know thats not ideal but i think i will be able to live with it. If it ruins your game then fair enough don't buy the full version and wait till it is fixed to your liking.
    Fuzz if peope are taking everything say 100% word for word then that is a problem I cant help. Not one person has mentioned that yet and by that all I meant was from the very start. I was in the store the day it was put on the shelves. By luck in Virgin lol. I remember seeing the red box and thinking originally it was bobby robson as he was my hero after England had nearly got to italia 90 final. I didnt think for a second that would upset people. And seriously I played that game every day till the next one came out, morning till rise lol. So I kinda felt by saying that it was true.

    anyway if people still cant have a constructive argument without getting nasty or personal then that doesnt really bother me. There not the people i want to talk to anyway. I have had enought support in this forum in just a few hours to know I have some decent points. the greatest idea ever would be to actually be able to make the interface and design how you want it. I am sure this is not far off as the choose your tabs secion and make them etc is amazing and I only realised how you can edit your own lists and things to view all at once. Brill feature!! Well done SI on that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruiseylee View Post
    Fuzz if peope are taking everything say 100% word for word then that is a problem I cant help. Not one person has mentioned that yet and by that all I meant was from the very start. I was in the store the day it was put on the shelves. By luck in Virgin lol. I remember seeing the red box and thinking originally it was bobby robson as he was my hero after England had nearly got to italia 90 final. I didnt think for a second that would upset people. And seriously I played that game every day till the next one came out, morning till rise lol. So I kinda felt by saying that it was true.

    anyway if people still cant have a constructive argument without getting nasty or personal then that doesnt really bother me. There not the people i want to talk to anyway. I have had enought support in this forum in just a few hours to know I have some decent points. the greatest idea ever would be to actually be able to make the interface and design how you want it. I am sure this is not far off as the choose your tabs secion and make them etc is amazing and I only realised how you can edit your own lists and things to view all at once. Brill feature!! Well done SI on that.
    That is the problem with internet forums, people do take everything you say 100% word for word. I am not saying it will upset people, though it probably will, only that most people will read to that comment or comments like that and dismiss the rest of your argument wether it is valid or not.

    I do believe you make some valid points on some things and given a chance you could probably have a constructive debate, rather than the tit for tat argument you are having with Brian S, with some of the more knowledgeable people on this forum. I will have to get back to you on wether the player interaction is repetitve or a game breaker as i still have'nt downloaded the demo yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruiseylee View Post
    Now I have been playing cm/fm for 20 years. Since i was 12/13 years old and I was one of the people who bought it on the release day. I have been one of its biggest fans. This game put me on the road to managment in which IRL I became the youngest coach/manager in the country when at 16 I took over from a manager who had given the team up. I had been helping out there as goalkeeper coach from age of 15 and became the youngest manager in the country. The team was u12s and I was only 4 years older than the players. I was in local and national press so I owe alot to this game although even from the age of 11 I was showing signs of becoming a manager by playing PBMs(play by mail management games) And even won league in 1st season aged 11 v adults lol

    Anyway my past not that important but I just wanted people to know how much I think of this game and how my views I feel are valid and hopefully something is done to save my fav game.

    In recent versions I have felt the game to over complicate things and feel so different regarding the display and interface. Also things have been brought in that I feel ruin it.
    Well fm 11 has lost it now. I took over Barnet on the demo last night and normally manage them. Anyway I think SI have left the game ideas/features in the baby creche section.

    I tranfer listed 4 players. All with different personalties. I did it as Barnet need money and these guys were either on high wages or of high value. All came to see me with the same question. why am I forcing them out. Then I was given the same possible answers for each players same question. I answered the same way. That the club needed the money etc. All said I am disrespecting them lol? Then I gave same answer and I got the same answer to all of them. Then there final answer was they better leave before they say something they regret? All repeating eachother word for word. Within 20 mins of playing the game I had come across something that for me makes the game unplayable.

    Some people prob wouldnt mind this sillyness and repetitive feature but for me it makes it feel like you have taken over the under 5 local team. The answers the players give is so immature and stupid it just makes me go erm... I feel embarrassed. player interaction to this level should never of been allowed into the game untill it was perfect. This is just silly.

    Now on the tactics section if you dont like the new set up on fm10 you can change it back to the set up you liked before. (Brill Feature) Anything with options and things that give you choice is awesome. But there is no option to go back to the prev feature. Not just that but the continuous and repetitive way you speak with players is annoying just after speaking with 2/3 I felt embarrassed I only had the same options to let the player know the meeting was over. Now Im not saying SI should of brought in 20/30 different ways to say bye or end of meeting. Im saying the game doesnt suite this interaction yet.

    In every case the players said they dont want to play for me anymore just cos I said they was being unprofessional. The club pays there wages and I told them the club needs to sell them for funds. Nothing personal on them. I am sure there will be many other things like this in the game and for me anyway its just too immature.

    For me its back to fm 06(the best version) and fm 10 is just playable and currently giving that a try.

    i would like to hear other peoples views of the restricitve and repetitive player interactions. and if theres anything else they should have kept the same or atleast given us the option ot go back to how it was before.

    Also if people have time or wish to answer these following features I cant believe were taken out from old fms or features I still cant believe are not in fm yet.
    Answer in numbered answers.

    1. Last match view!
    Was 1st on fm over 15 years ago! Just a little tab to check your last game. I used to use this all the time to remind myself if I had saved the game and just came back to it what had just happened and who played and also to see ratings/form etc. Now I have to click on club,fixtures,and then the match I want to see.

    2. Scout your own club.
    This feature was awesome. First brought in about 10 years ago. You could scout your own club and on the report you would see all the players picked for games. There rating in the last 10 games and also if the team won/lost/drawed/goals/conceded. If a player played in the reserves it also showed that and also had the same stats. It also showed when that players last game was and you could click(1 click) on that tab and see which players at a glance played most recent and which ones have not played for a while. Now to a point the game still has this feature but its tucked away and harder to view and you cant do it as simple as you could like this option. You also cant team view it on your whole club like you could back then.

    3. Position your own players!
    I think this feature was also brought in 10 years ago. I think on the 00/01 version. Then it dissapeared forever? For some of you who didnt play that version this was one of the best features ever.
    You could tell all 10 of your outfield players where you wanted them to be when the other team had the ball in certain areas. You could also place all 10 of your players where you want them when your team had the ball in certain areas. Making the game have a feel of great realism and making you feel you have done shadow training with your players. (for some who dont know this its what many coaches/managers do on the training pitch to let the players know where there wanted at certain times positional wise and also to gain the shape the manager is after)
    If you got this wrong like tell your players to push up and drop back to much from certain area squares they could lose fitness and condition. brill feature this was. Not just that but you could tell that speedy striker to stay on that last defender and never get what you get now of your speedy striker taking up wrong positions or your slow striker being the man looking to run in behind.

    4. Set instructions in matches given to players! (This is a feature that I cant believe has never appeared in cm/fm)
    ok so lets say its half time in a friendly and you are making 11 changes at half time. Now if you want to play the game properly and have your players having all the correct instructions this is going to take ages! Especially if most of them are new or trialists. You have to weigh up the game/away or home/attack or defend and it will take some time.
    Why oh why has nobody brought in a tab that has each player have set instructions they have when they play or when they come on as a sub. You could even have a tab of away or home instructions that you give that player and ofcourse you can edit if you change your mind on any of this. Would be best feature they could currently bring in.

    5. Seeing tactics/player instructions from prev games and your AM. (something also taken out from earler versions)
    I have seen alot in the forums complaining about not being able to set your reserve/u18 team tactics to how you want them to play. The only current option is use current match tactics.(which means copy 1st team) Not use tactics you set in the res/u18 tactics screen as some people think. In older version 00/01 and 01/02 you could look back at your reserve games and see what the AM did. You could also see what instructions he gave to each player which was awesome. As when you then bring that player into the 1st team you knew what he had been playing with in the reserves and he would hit the ground running as he would be playing the same way as he did in the reserves. It seems mad you cant now tell your AM how you want them to play and have to rely on what he wants (which you cant see now) or you have to ask your res/u18 to play same as the last 1st team match which could be completely the wrong tactics for the res/u18s next game. Also does copy 1st team mean copy all the player instructions also? I have never found this out yet.

    Now to a few minor things
    6. Pens taken and scored. On older versions you could see on a players stats how many of hes goals have come from pens and how many he had taken! Brill little feature. Ofcourse you can go to the league pens info but I want to see on hes profile page like before.

    7. Player Celebrations.
    Not sure if other people find every player celebrating the same way every time annoying but I do. On the older versions ofcourse you had no 3d. I suppose the development of the game this was always going to be tough to please people. For me the 2d was brill. Alot of the celebrations/goals was in your imagination. And for one this for me is better than watching better graphics of players doing silly things. now I know i dont have to watch in 3d but there is alot of things on the 3d I love. Also when you know something is there its hard to resist. just a shame the players dont celebrate more when they score in last minute compared to pulling a goal back. I mean having a players giving it the finger and punching air when 4-0 down??

    Im sure I have missed some things out but those are some things that has been on my mind and which I can think of now. Would be very interesting to see peoples views on all of this ;-)
    its easy to see why the players had a moan when you said your selling them in reallife a few would be upset to that like out of a squad of over like 20 players hes 1 of the 1s that get sold.and well that other feature is just new its no big deal they all say the samed thing it will be better next year but it does not make this the worst 1 yet.

  77. #77
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    Lets all go take a drink in the balcony and calm ourselves down before we type something that we regret.

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    It's always a bad idea to start a post with 'i've been playing CM since 1770'

    Just tell us the point. We wouldn't be here if we haven't played the game so most of us assume you have as well.

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    Bloody hell... airs and graces!! FM is the BEST game in the WHOLE WORLD!!! GO, GO FM TEAM!!!

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    At the moment player interactions is a pointless and annoying feature, I really doubt that a computer game could simulate well such a thing, too repetitive for me.

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    the funny thing is, the demo has been out for 2 days and someone is already claiming it to be the worst game ever. Infact I think the exact opposite. A rejig of the setup of the looks, with a few tweaks of fm2010 items and a couple of new items such as youtube and twitter. How on earth could that be a bad thing ?

    Also player agents makes it better also and more realistic. If Football Manager was like real life football, none of us would ever be manager of Liverpool or any other major European clubs in FM 2011. So all in all I think eventually FM 2011 will be better than FM 2010 and FM 2010 was awesome

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    My ass man told me he thought a player would improve if he came deep for the ball.

    So I spoke to the player about this, he refused and now hates me.

    In what world if you said to a player I want you to try and be on the ball more (presumably because you think he's good and effective) would he refuse and then even more bizarrely hate you?

    And the whole I'd better leave before i say something i regret!!! wow, is this the most girly phrase ever written into a computer game let alone a FOOTBALL game? And over something so innocuous.

    The game does definitely feel more babyish now imo to those great days of stats, more stats and no speech bubbles.

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    Player and media interaction seems to be a bit convoluted at the moment.
    If you need to experiment with answers then there is something wrong with the way the responses are worded at the very least.

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    On the same page of GD, we have one thread saying FM11 is the worst ever, and another saying it is the best version yet!

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    Quote Originally Posted by crouchaldinho View Post
    On the same page of GD, we have one thread saying FM11 is the worst ever, and another saying it is the best version yet!
    I did take that back Crouch if you read earlier on lol. Its defo the worst feature I changed it to. Altho to me this feature is so bad it does ruin the whole game.

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    I have played Champ/football manager for a very long time, not always the new game every year but get my monies worth. I have usually got to grips with the features pretty much straight away. This game however like the original poster says "worst version"
    Its repetetive, childish and not very convincing with the interaction. The whole front page is blocky and confusing. There is a lot of rubbish to sift through before getting to the game. Took over at Forest and had some strange results beat Charlton 8-1 (eight) with second string players, beat Northampton 1-0 and lost to someone lower 4-1
    I know its only a demo but Im afraid things dont look as though Im gonna part with my coffers on this one
    I think its a case of over complicating things

    cheers

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    Whilst I agree it's too early to call it the wort version ever, it's certainly very frustrating and annoying. I asked my winger to try a few one two's, he said he doesn't think it'll help, i say just give it a try and he says he's going before he says something he regrets. Now he wants a transfer and has a poor opinion of me. I then chat to him again to calm him down. I'm polite all the way, he basically now hates me and has put in a transfer request and 3 other players hate me. It's a joke and IS a game breaker.

    Did this not get game tested very well, or was the testers comments ignored? As it's clearly nowhere near ready.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dazbowski View Post
    Whilst I agree it's too early to call it the wort version ever, it's certainly very frustrating and annoying. I asked my winger to try a few one two's, he said he doesn't think it'll help, i say just give it a try and he says he's going before he says something he regrets. Now he wants a transfer and has a poor opinion of me. I then chat to him again to calm him down. I'm polite all the way, he basically now hates me and has put in a transfer request and 3 other players hate me. It's a joke and IS a game breaker.
    I think the si guys know some of the interaction needs tweaking

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    Theres no fun factor what so ever in this game anymore. It's just so dull and boring.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smeemi2009 View Post
    Theres no fun factor what so ever in this game anymore. It's just so dull and boring.
    There is something in that, it does seem year on year it becomes more technical and spreadsheetish (is that a word?) seems more mechanical and not free flowing. Yes lots of "new" features (which the set-piece creator is most certainly not one, but i'll moan about that elsewhere) but less feel and joy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wally13 View Post
    I think the si guys know some of the interaction needs tweaking
    I think it's more than tweaking tbh, it just doesn't work at the mo. Most situations you find yourself in that require talking to the player end up with problems. Which in turn then leads to the game becoming unstable due to the knock on effects with other players!

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    Quote Originally Posted by wally13 View Post
    I think the si guys know some of the interaction needs tweaking
    Then why wasn't it? These last two years SI have outdone themselves in terms of finding new and interesting ways to add depth to the game, but they have let themselves down in not testing these innovations enough. Then we are told that it's a "step in the right direction". Well which year are you planning on reaching your destination? Maybe you should call us when you have a finished game SI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pidge View Post
    Then why wasn't it? These last two years SI have outdone themselves in terms of finding new and interesting ways to add depth to the game, but they have let themselves down in not testing these innovations enough. Then we are told that it's a "step in the right direction". Well which year are you planning on reaching your destination? Maybe you should call us when you have a finished game SI.
    Slightly harsh but a good point nonetheless, if each year a new feature is put in as a "work in progress" then the year after it starts to get better, but in the meantime another new feature is added and that's a "work in progress" and the year after gets better. Add this *20 for every set of new features and you have a never ending circle each year with lots of unfinished features.

    Hence why the game never seems finished these days IMO

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    Quote Originally Posted by dazbowski View Post
    Slightly harsh but a good point nonetheless, if each year a new feature is put in as a "work in progress" then the year after it starts to get better, but in the meantime another new feature is added and that's a "work in progress" and the year after gets better. Add this *20 for every set of new features and you have a never ending circle each year with lots of unfinished features.

    Hence why the game never seems finished these days IMO
    It's the attitude more than the practise that annoys me. It suggests that they actually approach new developments with the opinion that it doesn't matter if they aren't as good as they can be. It wouldn't be so bad if these new developments weren't a cornerstone of the game's marketing. If you're advertising the fact that there's a new player interaction system ( a great idea) then test it to destruction with people removed from the development enough to give you an end-user's perspective. It feels like SI rely on the end-user to test their game for them. As I've said, the ideas are good and as I've said in other threads, the game is overall another step up in terms of quality. But the "step in the right direction" mentality, irritates me beyond belief.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruiseylee View Post
    anyway if people still cant have a constructive argument without getting nasty or personal then that doesnt really bother me.
    Alright let this be the constructive argument. I've spent... a long time reading the thread -.- although not everything...

    Quote Originally Posted by cruiseylee View Post
    Now I have been playing cm/fm for 20 years. Since i was 12/13 years old and I was one of the people who bought it on the release day. I have been one of its biggest fans. This game put me on the road to managment in which IRL I became the youngest coach/manager in the country when at 16 I took over from a manager who had given the team up. I had been helping out there as goalkeeper coach from age of 15 and became the youngest manager in the country. The team was u12s and I was only 4 years older than the players. I was in local and national press so I owe alot to this game although even from the age of 11 I was showing signs of becoming a manager by playing PBMs(play by mail management games) And even won league in 1st season aged 11 v adults lol
    Congratulations, then.

    Anyway my past not that important but I just wanted people to know how much I think of this game and how my views I feel are valid and hopefully something is done to save my fav game.
    I... don't think it needs saving, but I'll get to that.

    In recent versions I have felt the game to over complicate things and feel so different regarding the display and interface. Also things have been brought in that I feel ruin it.
    Well fm 11 has lost it now. I took over Barnet on the demo last night and normally manage them. Anyway I think SI have left the game ideas/features in the baby creche section.

    I tranfer listed 4 players. All with different personalties. I did it as Barnet need money and these guys were either on high wages or of high value. All came to see me with the same question. why am I forcing them out. Then I was given the same possible answers for each players same question. I answered the same way. That the club needed the money etc. All said I am disrespecting them lol? Then I gave same answer and I got the same answer to all of them. Then there final answer was they better leave before they say something they regret? All repeating eachother word for word. Within 20 mins of playing the game I had come across something that for me makes the game unplayable.
    I... doubt that your inability to produce a satisfactory result in your player interaction means that the game is unplayable. That's the first real step, I'd think. I mean, you could easily bypass it by not responding to it, or just accepting it. Besides, why are you bothered that they are unhappy since you're shipping them out anyway?

    So you told them the club needed money. You do realise that even if they have different personalities, they all will probably be selfish enough to put themselves first. So logically speaking, they will say you're disrespecting them, because to them, they believe they are good enough to stay at the club, and by forcing them out you're disrespecting their abilities, by selling them just for the club, since there are a lot of other players you could sell instead. Get the idea?

    The final answer bit is normal, understood, it happens all the time in most conversations. However there of course, is a limit to the difference. Besides, it's a new feature. They probably can't code a million different responses that mean the same thing? I think we have to be fair here. But to be fair I think they'll probably do that anyway. Covering their own behinds.

    Some people prob wouldnt mind this sillyness and repetitive feature but for me it makes it feel like you have taken over the under 5 local team. The answers the players give is so immature and stupid it just makes me go erm... I feel embarrassed. player interaction to this level should never of been allowed into the game untill it was perfect. This is just silly.
    Under 5 local team? I think... that's a bit exaggerated, to be perfectly honest.

    Immaturity... I mean, let's be fair, a lot of them think for themselves rather than club, to be honest, so the natural response is that you're trying to disrespect them, as they've mentioned.

    And I think the idea firstly is to release it in one version and gather responses. It's a risk and reward system, this market. They take the risk of putting it in this version, and if it gets a favourable response then they'll improve on it for the next game. What's the point of putting all your hard work into something that everyone'll eventually hate, regardless whether at 100% or 5%?

    Now on the tactics section if you dont like the new set up on fm10 you can change it back to the set up you liked before. (Brill Feature) Anything with options and things that give you choice is awesome. But there is no option to go back to the prev feature. Not just that but the continuous and repetitive way you speak with players is annoying just after speaking with 2/3 I felt embarrassed I only had the same options to let the player know the meeting was over. Now Im not saying SI should of brought in 20/30 different ways to say bye or end of meeting. Im saying the game doesnt suite this interaction yet.
    Like I said, it's a new initiative (For lack of a better term). They aren't going to spend 3 weeks coding a thousand different ways to say bye. Considering most of it is just, alright that's all I really have to speak to you about today. So yeah.

    In every case the players said they dont want to play for me anymore just cos I said they was being unprofessional. The club pays there wages and I told them the club needs to sell them for funds. Nothing personal on them. I am sure there will be many other things like this in the game and for me anyway its just too immature.
    Well again, understand the player. We live in a world where everyone puts themselves first. So obviously they believe that you're being personal to them, in the sense where you're disrespecting them. And disrespecting people is the most plain way anyone can figure out if a person is unprofessional or not. Because as a manager, you technically should respect every player, no?

    For me its back to fm 06(the best version) and fm 10 is just playable and currently giving that a try.
    Never played the version, so... no comment. apologies.

    1. Last match view!
    Was 1st on fm over 15 years ago! Just a little tab to check your last game. I used to use this all the time to remind myself if I had saved the game and just came back to it what had just happened and who played and also to see ratings/form etc. Now I have to click on club,fixtures,and then the match I want to see.
    Fair enough point. Although I doubt....umm... okay put it this way, to me, it's not very major. Gives you the option to both see your last game, and if you lost that, the last game you won. Like Liverpool can first watch their 2-0 loss to Everton, and then the 1-0 win over West Brom and decide what changed and how to fix the problem.

    2. Scout your own club.
    This feature was awesome. First brought in about 10 years ago. You could scout your own club and on the report you would see all the players picked for games. There rating in the last 10 games and also if the team won/lost/drawed/goals/conceded. If a player played in the reserves it also showed that and also had the same stats. It also showed when that players last game was and you could click(1 click) on that tab and see which players at a glance played most recent and which ones have not played for a while. Now to a point the game still has this feature but its tucked away and harder to view and you cant do it as simple as you could like this option. You also cant team view it on your whole club like you could back then.
    I think fine, it'll be sensible for it on the reserve team. For the first team, you kinda should know who you picked for most games, eh?

    (sorry if this sounds blunt but to me it's kinda like you're being a bit reminiscent )

    3. Position your own players!
    I think this feature was also brought in 10 years ago. I think on the 00/01 version. Then it dissapeared forever? For some of you who didnt play that version this was one of the best features ever.
    You could tell all 10 of your outfield players where you wanted them to be when the other team had the ball in certain areas. You could also place all 10 of your players where you want them when your team had the ball in certain areas. Making the game have a feel of great realism and making you feel you have done shadow training with your players. (for some who dont know this its what many coaches/managers do on the training pitch to let the players know where there wanted at certain times positional wise and also to gain the shape the manager is after)
    If you got this wrong like tell your players to push up and drop back to much from certain area squares they could lose fitness and condition. brill feature this was. Not just that but you could tell that speedy striker to stay on that last defender and never get what you get now of your speedy striker taking up wrong positions or your slow striker being the man looking to run in behind. [/QUOTE]

    Have you been playing CM2010 by any chance? This feature is there. Useful but sometimes I think for people not used to the feature it does get a bit confusing...

    4. Set instructions in matches given to players! (This is a feature that I cant believe has never appeared in cm/fm)
    ok so lets say its half time in a friendly and you are making 11 changes at half time. Now if you want to play the game properly and have your players having all the correct instructions this is going to take ages! Especially if most of them are new or trialists. You have to weigh up the game/away or home/attack or defend and it will take some time.
    Why oh why has nobody brought in a tab that has each player have set instructions they have when they play or when they come on as a sub. You could even have a tab of away or home instructions that you give that player and ofcourse you can edit if you change your mind on any of this. Would be best feature they could currently bring in.
    I'd imagine this'll take a whole load of coding to solve the problem? Maybe one for a future but I think at the end of the day it'll ultimately differ in each match, in terms of what you tell different players. The idea is that as a manager you would be telling each player what you expect them to do in a game, rather than going "same as last time".

    5. Seeing tactics/player instructions from prev games and your AM. (something also taken out from earler versions)
    I have seen alot in the forums complaining about not being able to set your reserve/u18 team tactics to how you want them to play. The only current option is use current match tactics.(which means copy 1st team) Not use tactics you set in the res/u18 tactics screen as some people think. In older version 00/01 and 01/02 you could look back at your reserve games and see what the AM did. You could also see what instructions he gave to each player which was awesome. As when you then bring that player into the 1st team you knew what he had been playing with in the reserves and he would hit the ground running as he would be playing the same way as he did in the reserves. It seems mad you cant now tell your AM how you want them to play and have to rely on what he wants (which you cant see now) or you have to ask your res/u18 to play same as the last 1st team match which could be completely the wrong tactics for the res/u18s next game. Also does copy 1st team mean copy all the player instructions also? I have never found this out yet.
    I thought you would be able to watch your reserve team matches whenever the news items come up? I'm sorry I don't really know too much about this (particularly because I don't really use it......)

    Now to a few minor things
    6. Pens taken and scored. On older versions you could see on a players stats how many of hes goals have come from pens and how many he had taken! Brill little feature. Ofcourse you can go to the league pens info but I want to see on hes profile page like before.
    I guess that's what the penalty taking attribute is for? To help you decide who to pick? And maybe backroom advice too?

    7. Player Celebrations.
    Not sure if other people find every player celebrating the same way every time annoying but I do. On the older versions ofcourse you had no 3d. I suppose the development of the game this was always going to be tough to please people. For me the 2d was brill. Alot of the celebrations/goals was in your imagination. And for one this for me is better than watching better graphics of players doing silly things. now I know i dont have to watch in 3d but there is alot of things on the 3d I love. Also when you know something is there its hard to resist. just a shame the players dont celebrate more when they score in last minute compared to pulling a goal back. I mean having a players giving it the finger and punching air when 4-0 down??
    This... will definitely take ages on coding. I mean, they are definitely trying but unfortunately on this kind of game it's going to take a long time to but everything together. Because each action is one code, including even the smallest of actions... even giving the finger for example. It could run up to 100 lines of coding for one small action that you may not really see...

    Im sure I have missed some things out but those are some things that has been on my mind and which I can think of now. Would be very interesting to see peoples views on all of this ;-)
    That... sure was a lot of things you can think of right now....

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    I do think that in the next version there should be some way of delegating more to other members of staff. Yes I know you can do so now on the likes of press conference etc.. but often this is detrimental to your managerial skills. I.e when your ass man tells your players that they are not good enough at half time when you are 4 - 0 up.

    The pace of the game is too slow for many people who especially those who have played the cm versions. Adding repetitive features doesn't help. Lets not forget that a managers job is primarily to select players, chose formations and oversee training. ( at big clubs the manager often doesn't get fully involved in training and lets the coaches do their job)

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    I like the player interactions, especially the fact I can now stop a player hating me, but did have Patrick Vieira come to me and tell me I was trying to force him out of the club. Judging by the fact I had stuck him in the reserves, transfer listed him and offered him out for free I did have a laugh about it and was close to saying I wanted him to stay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gazzamark View Post
    I like the player interactions, especially the fact I can now stop a player hating me, but did have Patrick Vieira come to me and tell me I was trying to force him out of the club. Judging by the fact I had stuck him in the reserves, transfer listed him and offered him out for free I did have a laugh about it and was close to saying I wanted him to stay.
    LOL! yea this also happned to me. all 4 players said after T listing them, putting them in reserves and meeting with them that I want them out that they think I am trying to force them out of the club, no kiddin lol.

    And yadda. Its also the opinion of hundreds on the forums! It will prob be the feeling for over 80% of the FM gamers. Maybe more. And If you dont agree that the PI is flawed and ruins the game then I really dont know what world your in. If you like it then great. Thats your opinion and I respect that. But my views were based on my opinion and facts. Thats all I was saying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cruiseylee View Post
    LOL! yea this also happned to me. all 4 players said after T listing them, putting them in reserves and meeting with them that I want them out that they think I am trying to force them out of the club, no kiddin lol.

    And yadda. Its also the opinion of hundreds on the forums! It will prob be the feeling for over 80% of the FM gamers. Maybe more. And If you dont agree that the PI is flawed and ruins the game then I really dont know what world your in. If you like it then great. Thats your opinion and I respect that. But my views were based on my opinion and facts. Thats all I was saying.
    Actually I already stated the interaction was repetitive, just not making the game 'unplayable' as you state. It certainly doesn't ruin the game. Again, at lest you found out you don't like the game before spending money on it, so the demo worked then.

    To say this is the worst version ever after 48 hours of the demo because of one feature you don't like is a bit silly, regardless of how many people agree that the player interaction is repetitive.

    Just cause lots of people agree with you, don't make you right.

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    Hi Merseyside.

    Thanks for your long post and trying to answer many of my points. But I can see you are not very exp FM player by the way you talk.

    You have missinterpreted me on many of the points and didnt seem to understand alot of what I was saying. I mean eg. On the pens? when did I say anything about seeing the pen taking attribute? Im talking about when you see goals in hes stats in could have in brackets how many were pens. Thats all. It was in an older version was my point.

    Anyway You seem to miss many of the things i was on about and im gona try and play some fm10 today so keeping posts short and brief lol. Im happy though that there is as much of an outcry on the PI. I hope so much that they take it out or give an option to us who dont want to be talking to 5 year olds. And for the person who said its exagerated saying its like runnign your local u5 team im affraid you dont get the jist of what im saying. What I mean by that is the game is immature and childish. I dont mean it literally. Its just to add a bit of humour by putting in exagerated things.

    And on the person who said T listing players would mean they disrespected me then you really dont understand football. This game is to mirror real life as much as poss. To bring this feature in with limited options and a very repetitive Q and A makes the game a complete breaker. My point on how my convos went was just giving an example. Many others have stated the problem goes deeper and it happens with everything from training/advice/learning from mentor to trying things in games. so all in all its never going away and is going to dominate the game.

    As I said in my post. I am barnet. Players of this level would understand alot more if a club said sorry we need to sell you for the clubs best interest. They wouldnt act like a 10 year old and throw toys out of pram. If you was nasty, or got personal or was generally really disrespecting them then I wouldnt mind there answer of im disresepcting them. But as I said this is going on in the game everywhere at every level to every manager whether he has International rep or Sunday footballer.

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