Why November 5th?

[Gooner Steve]

Why is the game released over 2 month's after the transfer window shuts?

THIS IS NOT A MOAN, just wondering why. For some/most this is the only game they really play, so I thought a little insight into the workings and putting of the game together would be intresting!

- The game (for me) becomes less playable when the season ends, due to teams changing personal. So about May time!

- I know they/you need 12 months to get a new version out but why not polish this years and only have 10 or 11 months?

- By using 3rd party programes, I see that just putting new players in teams does not change the game's dynamics that much to warrant a large scale beta testing!

- I do understand that there is alot of data to check and bring together after the transfer window shuts but does it really take a 4-7 weeks to do?

- I also understand that there is the manufacturing of the game, which I believe is about 2 weeks from going gold to being on the shop shelve's!

Not belittling the hard work researchers or si do. Paid or unpaid. I appreciate all that they/you do (honestly) .

[IWWROCKS]

because SI want to celebrate the release by making a bunch of people out of straw, pretending it's SI forum go'ers and burning 'em all on the bonfire.

[englandmanager]

why have cheese on chips?

because they can

[maxi7]

Why is the game released over 2 month's after the transfer window shuts?

THIS IS NOT A MOAN, just wondering why. For some/most this is the only game they really play, so I thought a little insight into the workings and putting of the game together would be intresting!

- The game (for me) becomes less playable when the season ends, due to teams changing personal. So about May time! - Well download updates?

- I know they/you need 12 months to get a new version out but why not polish this years and only have 10 or 11 months? - So they have beta testing to iron out bugs.

- By using 3rd party programes, I see that just putting new players in teams does not change the game's dynamics that much to warrant a large scale beta testing! - It's all about adding new features.

- I do understand that there is alot of data to check and bring together after the transfer window shuts but does it really take a 4-7 weeks to do? - Yes, your talking Worldwide data mate.

- I also understand that there is the manufacturing of the game, which I believe is about 2 weeks from going gold to being on the shop shelve's! -

Not belittling the hard work researchers or si do. Paid or unpaid. I appreciate all that they/you do (honestly) .

Just adding my thoughts there to your post, SI have called it right imo.

[IWWROCKS]

Would also love to just point out the irony in the OP's join date

[johnmcgrath86]

I agree Gooner Steve, Far too long after the transfer window ends and like you its the only game I really play. And pay my money to get my game so my opinion matters!

[Jhemo]

Because it's friday. Near all games gets released on friday . Anybody know why?

[JK18]

Because it's friday. Near all games gets released on friday . Anybody know why?

So peoples will buy it and spend weekend playing it?

[nev147]

Would also love to just point out the irony in the OP's join date

Great spot - that made me laugh!!! To be honest I like the fact it comes out a bit later - SI are not stupid. Fifa and pes are out this month right - or last month? It would be poor timing on SI's behalf for obvious reasons. And its been the norm for ages - and I knid of like it being released in Winter!!! A chilly day and you are in the warmth of your house playing fm!!! It takes time and skill to make a great game. If it was released early then the standard would be greatly effected. For me SI have got it down to a T.

[Ely-matty]

i think everyone here hope a september - early october release, but it never happened. we have to play it on late october - early november.

[Gooner Steve]

Great spot - that made me laugh!!! To be honest I like the fact it comes out a bit later - SI are not stupid. Fifa and pes are out this month right - or last month? It would be poor timing on SI's behalf for obvious reasons. And its been the norm for ages - and I knid of like it being released in Winter!!! A chilly day and you are in the warmth of your house playing fm!!! It takes time and skill to make a great game. If it was released early then the standard would be greatly effected. For me SI have got it down to a T.

Last year it was released on the same day as COD: Modern Warfare (or maybe year before FM09), so don't think they are worried about going up against the big boys. I liked that because my local shop was open at midnight to sell COD and there was me asking for FM, I got a few laughs. I know pes and fifa are football games aswell but my mate's play them and not FM and i'm vice versa!

[nev147]

Why is the game released over 2 month's after the transfer window shuts?

- I do understand that there is alot of data to check and bring together after the transfer window shuts but does it really take a 4-7 weeks to do?

Thats the thing - these sorts of processes amongst lots of others things will take a long time - a lot longer than we think.

What we think is easy takes time and SI have got bigger in recent years - but they certainly dont have a big workforce - people at SI towers that is!!!

[JK18]

Last year it was released on the same day as COD: Modern Warfare (or maybe year before FM09), so don't think they are worried about going up against the big boys. I liked that because my local shop was open at midnight to sell COD and there was me asking for FM, I got a few laughs. I know pes and fifa are football games aswell but my mate's play them and not FM and i'm vice versa!

Well, I play both PES and FM. What's your point then? All of my male cousins (five) also played both, so I'm pretty sure nev's got his point.

[Gooner Steve]

Well, I play both PES and FM. What's your point then? All of my male cousins (five) also played both, so I'm pretty sure nev's got his point.

My point is, what I said! FM shouldnt be afraid to go up against the so called big boys!

Not saying he don't have a point but I would be surprised if they wont release there game because of other games. FM has a very loyal following as do other big name games.

[JK18]

My point is, what I said! FM shouldnt be afraid to go up against the so called big boys!

Not saying he don't have a point but I would be surprised if they wont release there game because of other games. FM has a very loyal following as do other big name games.

It's true that FM had hordes of loyal fans, but will it got the spotlight in the stores if SI decided to release the game around the same time as those big boys? I bet any stores would set spotlight on those two giants, and left FM in the shade.

[Kenco]

Because it's an easy date to remember, remember.

[Gooner Steve]

It's true that FM had hordes of loyal fans, but will it got the spotlight in the stores if SI decided to release the game around the same time as those big boys? I bet any stores would set spotlight on those two giants, and left FM in the shade.

That's the point they did, COD: World at War on 14th November 2008! I believe COD: World at War has sold over 11 million copies, I believe Fifa 09 released a month earlier sold around 5 million copies.

really out of my depth with these figures and dates but wasnt a world of warcraft expansion also released in this same week? which sold over 11 million copies!

[SCIAG]

They release their final patch in Feb/March, containing data updates, and final fixes.

They then need 4 or 5 months to code new features and do alpha testing. Data has to be revised (balancing teams takes more time than the transfers- all researchers have to compare data to make sure Liverpool are better than Blackpool ) and beta testing has to begin. Look at the change lists for any of the patches- each of those fixes has to be done, which will take time, and then I presume that has to be tested, and further adjustments made. That all probably takes another few months. IIRC, there's a week or two between the game "going gold" and the demo coming out, and another few weeks before the game is released.

[Brian Shanahan]

Last year it was released on the same day as COD: Modern Warfare (or maybe year before FM09), so don't think they are worried about going up against the big boys. I liked that because my local shop was open at midnight to sell COD and there was me asking for FM, I got a few laughs. I know pes and fifa are football games aswell but my mate's play them and not FM and i'm vice versa!

COD is in a different market than FM though, so even though there could be a signficant overlap in the two companies' customer bases (on SI side anyway) it's likely that the customers will buy both games (eventually anyway). However the FIFA/PES games are very close to being in FM's market so there is less of a chance of the two being bought by the same cusotmer.

[cheshirelad]

All the big new features (i'm looking at you set-piece creator) will surely need a heck of a lot of work to get balanced and the bugs out. Not surpised it's a late release.

[Bradmonk]

So you can push the wife and kids out the door, they can go watch the fireworks and you get to play FM in peace.

Sorted.

[crouchie]

Would also love to just point out the irony in the OP's join date

Love this!!

[wazza]

As far as I remember all other versions of the game have been released the last Friday in October. This installment is been released 1 week later. As there are many new features maybe SI where hoping to get it out last week in October but realised that this was an imposssibility as they had some errors to fix that would make the game playable and wanted to release a less bug free game.
As other installments have been last week in October I dont think 1 week late warrents it to be said its a late release.

[Bradmonk]

As far as I remember all other versions of the game have been released the last Friday in October. This installment is been released 1 week later. As there are many new features maybe SI where hoping to get it out last week in October but realised that this was an imposssibility as they had some errors to fix that would make the game playable and wanted to release a less bug free game.
As other installments have been last week in October I dont think 1 week late warrents it to be said its a late release.

Dunno bout you but I think they're aiming to stomp on the bugs before release :P

[blinx01]

I know people want the game asap but I'd rather a bug-free game, maybe with a small patch on release day for anything missed than a game that's unplayable because they rushed it out to meet a set date.
Hopefully we will get the demo soon so at least that will keep people busy until release.
Until then, enjoy a few games of FIFA or invest in the likes of Fallout New Vegas or Fable III to eat up the days.
I know I will be.

[PW]

Bottom line it is probably due to money.
Like when singers release singles alot of the time it is tactically looked at as to when it is best to release, near Xmas generates the most income, what rivals launch theirs on the same date, etc.
I feel that releasing the game just after the first transfer window has closed would be the most 'player' logical date (all teams/players up to date and a better feeling of you starting a new season when in real life they are as well) but I'm sure money comes into it somewhere!

[gazzamark]

Theres a lot more to a new release of FM than just a data update, I'm sure that bit is easy.

[Onyewu]

I am completely with you Gooner Steve........but I also understand what SCIAG is saying...........it appears we'll always be frustrated by such a late release after the start of the Euro season......

I still don't understand what the release of other games have to do with FM........

[pcmac1980]

Just adding my thoughts there to your post, SI have called it right imo.

I think it´s strategic. The game is released one month after PES and FIFA and near Christmas. It has some logic in it because it doesn´t have to compete with the two "giants" for shelf space and specially sales (i´m sure sales wouldn´t be as good as their are year after year); it gives more time to test the game and correct some bugs; people have more money available to buy the game (the logic here is probably because people who bought PES and/or FIFA in one month can buy FM 2011 in the other).

[Gooner Steve]

I think most people's conclusion is that;

1, They do need a full 12 months+ to get a polished game ie bugs - but why not limit the "new features" for 1 year (spending shorter amount of time bringing the game together) and still spend the rest of the time ironing out the bugs?

2, There is to much data to bring together after the transfer window shuts - I can't see this really taking 4-7 weeks because if the game is already finished but the teams just need updating, surely it don't take that long. When you look at the great update's the guys do on the editor forum and how quick they knock them out. Most of them are doing it in there spare time and with out the resourse's avalible at si tower's! The January patch don't take 4-7 weeks!

3, They don't want to compete with fifa and pes - FM has gone up against big titles before and still come out well (see my previous post). I think i'm right in saying that FM's main platform is PC and fifa and pes would be console. Previously they went up against big PC platform titles and still got/nearly got christmas No.1!

4, Strategic marketing ie Christmas - Nothing I can really say to this, money's King. - I guess they have done there research and found this to be the best way to optimize sale'e

I really don't want this to provoke argument but to provoke conversation.

[Ely-matty]

of the game will be out at the same period as fifa and pes, i'll buy only FM

[Tullem]

answer being so you can sit by the window watching the fireworks as you play fm11, making it seem like the fireworks are celebrating its release

[SCIAG]

I think most people's conclusion is that;

1, They do need a full 12 months+ to get a polished game ie bugs - but why not limit the "new features" for 1 year (spending shorter amount of time bringing the game together) and still spend the rest of the time ironing out the bugs?

2, There is to much data to bring together after the transfer window shuts - I can't see this really taking 4-7 weeks because if the game is already finished but the teams just need updating, surely it don't take that long. When you look at the great update's the guys do on the editor forum and how quick they knock them out. Most of them are doing it in there spare time and with out the resourse's avalible at si tower's! The January patch don't take 4-7 weeks!

1. If they didn't include new features, it wouldn't be a game. Also, they'd have to do that ever year, as the final patch still comes out in Feb/March
2. The game is not finished at the end of the transfer window. The updates produced by people in the editor's forum are amateur. The time consuming part isn't the transfers, it's the contracts, the favourred personal, and above all, the attributes/CAs. Amateur updaters tend to ignore these aspects. Also, the researchers are doing the data in their spare time. They are not employed by SI, with the exception of about 6 of the 200+ researchers.

[Poodmund]

All the big new features (i'm looking at you set-piece creator) will surely need a heck of a lot of work to get balanced and the bugs out. Not surpised it's a late release.

Just posting to point out that the new Set Piece Creator is merely an updated Wizard function of the pre-existing Set Piece instructions much like the previous 'New Tactics Creator' was.

[djwilko6]

I dont think FM are scared about going up against "big games", wether its their genre or not, apart from the examples already given, this year its up against Gran Turismo 5!

[michael]

As far as I remember all other versions of the game have been released the last Friday in October. This installment is been released 1 week later. As there are many new features maybe SI where hoping to get it out last week in October but realised that this was an imposssibility as they had some errors to fix that would make the game playable and wanted to release a less bug free game.
As other installments have been last week in October I dont think 1 week late warrents it to be said its a late release.

I seem to remember one year (it might have been cm4) that the game was not released until around April time i think!! Does anyone remember that? The agony!!!!!!

[CaptainPlanet]

Game is never playable untill the 2nd or 3rd patch anyway

[dave7867]

and all the retailers announced that it would be released on the 29th october before confirming with SI so payback to all of them SI said no november 5th just to p iss everybody off.

[cheshirelad]

Just posting to point out that the new Set Piece Creator is merely an updated Wizard function of the pre-existing Set Piece instructions much like the previous 'New Tactics Creator' was.

It is? Oh. Thought it was creating bespoke set pieces. Oh well.

[elliottness23]

What gets on my nerves is that you get into the game finally get use to your team, by this time its Jan (in real life) then the new update comes out in Feb with the new transfers in place and you have to start all over again????

Just bring it out a little earlier so we can appreciate it for a little longer before the second transfer window reopens and closes.

[GioGio85]

What gets on my nerves is that you get into the game finally get use to your team, by this time its Jan (in real life) then the new update comes out in Feb with the new transfers in place and you have to start all over again????

Just bring it out a little earlier so we can appreciate it for a little longer before the second transfer window reopens and closes.

THis never bothers me as I am normally wellinto my career save by this point and most established players are getting old etc.

[r0x0r]

FM11 is SI's birthday present to me.

Them not releasing it 'til my birthday (and therefore the demo not being out yet today) is their birthday present to my fiancé.

[Kenco]

What gets on my nerves is that you get into the game finally get use to your team, by this time its Jan (in real life) then the new update comes out in Feb with the new transfers in place and you have to start all over again????

Just bring it out a little earlier so we can appreciate it for a little longer before the second transfer window reopens and closes.

Why do you have to start over again? Once your game is up and running, lots of players would have moved to different teams so having the new transfers in place isn't that important.

[Matt ex SEGA]

It's not money - if i recall correctly, one of our best ever first week's sales was releasing same day as Pro Evo (when they were selling millions).

It's a combination of factors mostly led by dev. Lots and lots of research - more than most of the action games - takes time to get in, get balanced, get tested and get right. Plus you need time from the last release to ensure that new content has time to be worked on.

[Brian Shanahan]

I think most people's conclusion is that;

1, They do need a full 12 months+ to get a polished game ie bugs - but why not limit the "new features" for 1 year (spending shorter amount of time bringing the game together) and still spend the rest of the time ironing out the bugs?

Bugs are actually far less of a problem for SI than some people make out. Frankly don't listen to the bull that some people spout about the game being unplayable until the third patch. If you take two popular recent games as examples, look at Civ V it is far more buggy than FM10 was, despite a 3 year lead in (ok it was also made very unbalanced and horribly thought out, e.g. a small-empire game with ICS as the best strategy?), and Fallout 3, which needed 7 patches (!) and still has many of the worst ones present (e.g. the Paladin who comes and steals everything out of your locker). Both of these games have far more serious problems out of the box than any of the SI games I've played.

2, There is to much data to bring together after the transfer window shuts - I can't see this really taking 4-7 weeks because if the game is already finished but the teams just need updating, surely it don't take that long. When you look at the great update's the guys do on the editor forum and how quick they knock them out. Most of them are doing it in there spare time and with out the resourse's avalible at si tower's! The January patch don't take 4-7 weeks!

Seriously, what? you're talking all the transfers and major injuries of leagues for over 50 countries and any major transfer/injury for all the countries not represented by these leagues (except Japan). That is a serious amount of work to do, especially considering that they cannot start on the biggest part of the January patch (the transfers) until the 1st February. Look at Sky Sports News on 01/01/2011 to see how much data needs changing. Then there is all the data issues, bugs (yes they're still there I know), rules changes, financial changes and anything else that happens with FUFA around the new year.

3, They don't want to compete with fifa and pes - FM has gone up against big titles before and still come out well (see my previous post). I think i'm right in saying that FM's main platform is PC and fifa and pes would be console. Previously they went up against big PC platform titles and still got/nearly got christmas No.1!

As I mentioned before COD is not the same market as FM, coparing sales of the two games is like comparing Apples and Carrots, they're close but comparison is useless as they're still too different. The reason why FM is usually the biggest in UK at Christmas is because the UK is footy mad and the FIFA/PES offerings for PC are usually pretty manky (e.g. EA hadn't updated it's PC engine for over five years with FUFA10. Oh and P.S. you can actually compare bugs between games in two different genres, before you try to catch me out on this, as comparing bugs is comparing code work and not the games.

4, Strategic marketing ie Christmas - Nothing I can really say to this, money's King. - I guess they have done there research and found this to be the best way to optimize sale'e

I really don't want this to provoke argument but to provoke conversation.

And why not? They're a company which is in the business of making a profit out of it's product. If other companies had the attitude of SI give a good product at a reasonable price with pretty good support (both in advice and technical terms) then I'd be a lot more happy with private enterprise (I'm pretty much a socialist by the way).

Finally on the last line I pretty much translate things like that into "I don't want anyone disagreeing with me", it saves a lot of time and bother on my part. If you are going to say something which is contentious you are going to get an arguement (which is simply people with differing points of view stating their opinions, nothing else) so if you don't want an arguement just stick to "I like puppies/kittens (delete as preferred)" type of posts in future.

[santy001]

It's pretty costly and embarassing for a company to say a game will be ready by XX/XX/XX and then have to backtrack. With a game like FM all the way up until the end there is the potential for a game-breaker like with most software, each year they have to assess a suitable period with reasonable expenditure to turn out the latest version of the game. Sure if SI doubled their costs of developers and testers then yes they could probably get the game out a couple weeks sooner, but you soon realise that its not worth it. I'm sure SI would love to be able to release a fully functional FM game the day before the football league season kicked off in August. However, it is just so unviable given that people will then complain there isn't up to date transfers on a daily basis. This way we get all the transfers incorporated, its tested to higher standards and most importantly of all for us who hope to keep playing - its viable for SI.

[Wiitastic]

Great spot - that made me laugh!!! To be honest I like the fact it comes out a bit later - SI are not stupid. Fifa and pes are out this month right - or last month? It would be poor timing on SI's behalf for obvious reasons. And its been the norm for ages - and I knid of like it being released in Winter!!! A chilly day and you are in the warmth of your house playing fm!!! It takes time and skill to make a great game. If it was released early then the standard would be greatly effected. For me SI have got it down to a T.

no, its not a normal relsease date ... this year it's 1 week later than normal

[Stamatis]

SI are not stupid. Fifa and pes are out this month right - or last month? It would be poor timing on SI's behalf for obvious reasons.

That would be exactly my thought as well

[Ter]

It's pretty costly and embarassing for a company to say a game will be ready by XX/XX/XX and then have to backtrack. With a game like FM all the way up until the end there is the potential for a game-breaker like with most software, each year they have to assess a suitable period with reasonable expenditure to turn out the latest version of the game. Sure if SI doubled their costs of developers and testers then yes they could probably get the game out a couple weeks sooner, but you soon realise that its not worth it. I'm sure SI would love to be able to release a fully functional FM game the day before the football league season kicked off in August. However, it is just so unviable given that people will then complain there isn't up to date transfers on a daily basis. This way we get all the transfers incorporated, its tested to higher standards and most importantly of all for us who hope to keep playing - its viable for SI.

There is no way we could have the game out for the start of the season. If the season starts at the beginning of August then the game would have to be finished by the beginning of July. Before the game is finished it would have to have been under a codelock period where nothing new gets added to the game except critical fixes. You would end up with a game released that has out of date squads, wrong league rules, wrong kits, no player pictures and the list goes on.

[Matt ex SEGA]

That would be exactly my thought as well

And as highlighted - our second biggest launch was on the same day as PES sold about half a million copies.

Our reasons are our own, and internal - not related to competition at this point. There's always been FIFA and PES, and a host of other good games to tempt people.

[Carmi88]

take their time releasing FM i say, after the mess up of fifa 11 with all its online issues and terrible AI i cant wait for a brilliant footie game to be out not tried PES yet though

[Gooner Steve]

Finally on the last line I pretty much translate things like that into "I don't want anyone disagreeing with me", it saves a lot of time and bother on my part. If you are going to say something which is contentious you are going to get an arguement (which is simply people with differing points of view stating their opinions, nothing else) so if you don't want an arguement just stick to "I like puppies/kittens (delete as preferred)" type of posts in future.

Refering to this; I really don't want this to provoke argument but to provoke conversation.

I alway's knew that by posting this subject some people would find it a little "contentious". I would never discourage a persons view (in my private life or work life) even if it differed from mine. Far from it I actively encourage new view's/idea's at work and different methods of doing things.

I find it sad that many people now adays cant have differing view's and not talk about it construcively without it turning into an argument! That's simply what I meant. I have never said this is my view and its right, I wanted to see what other people thought and maybe get an idea of the workings of the game (which I did put in my first post).

Thanks to Matt and Ter one myth that has been dispelled is that FM are not bothered about releasing there game at the same time as other similar genre game's. Which I find interesting.

Another reason for a later release which hasnt been mentioned would be the time it takes to market and promote the game once near completion.

There is a joke; "arguing on a forum is like entering the special olympics," I will leave the punch line out, due to not being "pc". Defiently puppies ( I have two Dogs), kittens are ok but then they turn into Cats!!!

[Matt ex SEGA]

Thanks to Matt and Ter one myth that has been dispelled is that FM are not bothered about releasing there game at the same time as other similar genre game's. Which I find interesting.

Another reason for a later release which hasnt been mentioned would be the time it takes to market and promote the game once near completion.

FM being a PC game and commanding a very loyal fanbase generally helps us have some confidence when releasing against heavyweight competition. We've not yet had a huge disruption to sales based on anyone else - be interesting to see whether GT5 does have an effect.

As for time to market once finished - that doesn't really happen with videogames any more. They cost so much to make that you need to get them to market once they're complete so you tend to run your marketing in parallel with your development. It's probably the most time consuming thing we do as marketers - as some of the stuff you want to show isn't available until the game is near the end of development etc. Again - not such an issue with FM, but for example on Total War, it's more of a challenge.

Mostly, its just common sense on FM...

[Matt ex SEGA]

Not sure why there is a thread of this nature, SI dont need to explain there selfs to the general public why they do or dont release a game on a certain date, if i was running a game company and had the same asked to me why Nov 5th, i would politely say mind your own business.

It's good to talk...

[Gooner Steve]

FM being a PC game and commanding a very loyal fanbase generally helps us have some confidence when releasing against heavyweight competition. We've not yet had a huge disruption to sales based on anyone else - be interesting to see whether GT5 does have an effect.

As for time to market once finished - that doesn't really happen with videogames any more. They cost so much to make that you need to get them to market once they're complete so you tend to run your marketing in parallel with your development. It's probably the most time consuming thing we do as marketers - as some of the stuff you want to show isn't available until the game is near the end of development etc. Again - not such an issue with FM, but for example on Total War, it's more of a challenge.

Mostly, its just common sense on FM...

Ok, that's two myths gone. Dispell the rest and then we can get the game out next year on the 1st September..... lol.

Thanks for the replies.

[Neji]

They won't release it on 1st of September because it would be out of date.

[Matt ex SEGA]

Your points about the data, gooner steve? That's fairly simple too.

We could of course look at moving the release date to whenever we wanted given time to do it - i.e. if we decided May was the best time to release so we could model the data on real data nearer to the end of the season rather than trying to predict the outcome of the season we'd probably have to delay the next game by 6 months - so FM 12 would theoretically then come out in May 2012 rather than late 2011. So in theory, we could also do a September release.

However, the window that we normally occupy is the preferred one for a number of reasons;

- It actually does take about that amount of time to get the new seasons data into the game, verified, tested and manufactured. September 1st to end of October is normally about 8 weeks... that gives SI around 5 weeks and manufacturing around 3.

- We prefer to do that and release the game "fresh" at the beginning of the season - it's served us well. If we released in September, we'd be using data from about 8 weeks before - so on the day the game came out, it'd be miles out of date in terms of missing all the summer transfers. I know we could patch it, but not everyone uses the patch, etc.

- It's a good commercial window to release the game in in the run up to Christmas etc. And it's good company for our fans on those long, cold, lonely winter nights...

In short - we're not likely to move the release date dramatically any time soon (touch wood).