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Thread: After over a decade of playing fm/cm why do I suck at this game now?

  1. #1
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    Default After over a decade of playing fm/cm why do I suck at this game now?

    I've played this series for a long time and had reasonable success, but since 2010 I have struggled so much. I've researched over 20 hours in the forums read TT&F and still I can find no consistency with this new game.

    I started a journeyman save a while back starting at Blue Square South, It took me 4 Long seasons just to reach the play-offs which I lost, this is soo frustrating because of how long it takes to complete a season and how much detail I have put in my management and tactics. So finally I broke and used the corner exploit tactic, 5th and 6th season comfortably promoted my thinking at this time is that maybe the match engine isn't that well developed for the lower divisions.

    I now find myself in league 2 I've made a 20 odd superb signings, media prediction says i'm favourites to be relegated but that was before I made so many great signings. at least 5 of my player are said to be leading league 1 players the other 6 leading league 2 players with the addition of the corner exploit I'm thinking another promotion. 10 games through I'm in the relegation zone my team is playing awful the opposition are dominating in every match, ok maybe its because my team needs time to 'settle' in just like Torres at liverpool... but then I look at my team compared to the ones I'm being thrashed by and I think how? especially with a corner tactic.
    So I downloaded FMScout to see how my best 11 compared with other teams in my division, my teams rating wins hands down in fact its at the same level as a lower championship side...and im in league 2 and struggling wth!

    If I imagined this in real life its like Man City have signed a load of players who are capable of winning the premier league but they need time to settle in so they likely to finish mid-table reasonable as it has happened.

    Comparision to my team who are in league 2 and struggling but should be able to be leading in league 1 how is this happening no matter the average tactics I may be playing or the time needed to 'gel' don't you think I should be dominating even without a corner exploit? I'm by no means a tactical idiot after playing this series over 10 years and watching alot of football you'd think you'd have some decent tactical knowledge but I just can't win consistently in this game and have very little success why is this?

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    It can take time for players to settle, especially when you sign a shed load, I would also look at your tactics, I use the same base 4-2-3-1 formation and have taken Weston Super Mare from the blue square south to the Premier League, using the same base, but I tweak it depending on what I see (I also give it 5 / 10 games after a tweak to let it settle in)

    I think I am currently playing the best football in the world using the method and have won the league 4 times in the past 5 seasons (currently 1st in season 6) but I am still without that all elusive Champions league trophy.

    But as I said I tweak, when I first started I played very direct with long passing etc.. lots of tough and tall players, I now have pretty much the shortest side in the league, but its all possession football with short, patent passing.

    With what you have said, I would be seriously looking at my tactics and maybe considering watching large percentages of games (I find it easier to do in 2d mode) and watching wwere things are going wrong.

    If you have tall, big men up front dont be afraid to start hoofing it forward to them, it takes time (took me over a decade (virtual) to get the right mix) to be able to play what I consider good attractive football
    Last edited by Saner2oo2; 02-08-2010 at 14:22.

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    Making 20 odd signings is a huge shift in staff. Yes, it takes players time to gel, but you may find that some players, no matter how good, cannot gel with others. It happens. Some players have a telepathic-like connection, others are so far from being on the same page, they're reading different books.

    It's just my opinion, but I've had to be much, much smarter with tactics in this version of the game than in previous years. I've always played 4-4-2 with a 4-5-1 against difficult opposition (like most good EPL teams once did). Now, like most top PL teams, I play 4-2-3-1 with two wide men and an attacking midfielder pulling the strings behind a lone striker.

    I would say it's highly unlikely you've become a bad player over night, but re-invent yourself. Find a tactic that works and find players that work in that tactic. Have a back-up. And, the most important lesson in lower league football is it doesn't matter how skillful your players are, if they can't run their socks off for 90 minutes, they may as well not play. Lots of strength and aerobic training will do absolute wonders. It's how I earned straight promotions from the Blue Square Premier to the Premier League with York City.

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    I hate to say it but:

    it your tactics!

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    Thx for such quick advice, I also use 4231 playing long direct passing tweaking on away days and I've kept this formation over 6 seasons. In one of my first 4 seasons I signed quite a few players who were rated as average but had the required attributes fulfill my tactics such as a pacey def good at tackling and a tall def good at heading but they failed dismally so I can't help but think maybe this game is trying to be too complex, its kind of alienating me as im putting in so much time and I'm not reaping the benefits I seem to get better results when I don't bother going into depth and just rush through the game also it seems so much easier at the highest levels I dont know why this is.

    I can understand that some players may need time to gel but if you put a team of leading Premier league stars who have never played together into a Championship side I reckon they would at least be able to fight for promotion, I'm getting the feeling that this game focuses too much on the need for squad members to gel.

    And as a rule I always sub off my most tired looking players in a match at around 60-70mins this is another newish feature that I hate, it seems unrealistic how tired these players are becoming in professional football a player shouldn't need to be subbed off because he's tired unless he's in his 30's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperChaos View Post
    Thx for such quick advice, I also use 4231 playing long direct passing tweaking on away days and I've kept this formation over 6 seasons. In one of my first 4 seasons I signed quite a few players who were rated as average but had the required attributes fulfill my tactics such as a pacey def good at tackling and a tall def good at heading but they failed dismally so I can't help but think maybe this game is trying to be too complex, its kind of alienating me as im putting in so much time and I'm not reaping the benefits I seem to get better results when I don't bother going into depth and just rush through the game also it seems so much easier at the highest levels I dont know why this is.
    It can help to tweak again a little, the one season I lost in the past 5 I had a shocker, towards the end of the season I started tweaking and made the players play a much shorter game, keeping the ball on the deck, whipping cross's in etc... and so far (season and a half) it has worked fine, it took about 7 / 8 games though (competitive) for it to start giving results.

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperChaos View Post
    I can understand that some players may need time to gel but if you put a team of leading Premier league stars who have never played together into a Championship side I reckon they would at least be able to fight for promotion, I'm getting the feeling that this game focuses too much on the need for squad members to gel.
    Again, if you did that with poor tactics they may not be, how many times do we hear "Well they will be safe, they are just too good to go down" in real life ?

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperChaos View Post
    And as a rule I always sub off my most tired looking players in a match at around 60-70mins this is another newish feature that I hate, it seems unrealistic how tired these players are becoming in professional football a player shouldn't need to be subbed off because he's tired unless he's in his 30's.
    Check the players natural fitness and stamina, some players especially lower down are just unfit, also (again sorry) if they are running around at four hundred miles per hour chasing the ball, they will get knackered quicker.

    I dont know if it will be much help, and I would strongly recommend trying this in pre-season and not mid season, but here is a link to the earliest version of tactic I am currently using, trouble is when I used this one I was in 2033 and I was already in the top flight, so its probably usless for you (and thats before we get into the fact its customized for my players)

    http://pokemonger.com/fm/WSM-4-2-3-1... Jul 2033).tac

    It may be worth checking out the tactics forum too, loads of great advise there.

    EDIT //

    Found a copy from 2010, this may be complete naff, as you can see its from Jan 2010, so things were not going my way and I tweaked it

    http://pokemonger.com/fm/WSM-4-2-3-1... Jan 2010).tac

    and the version I am using now, very few tweaks, none to player positions, just to team instructions.
    http://pokemonger.com/fm/WSM-4-2-3-1... Sep 2037).tac


    I have never posted these before, because I feel that tactics should be built for your own team etc... so I doubt they will work for you, but if you get a spare 10 minutes you never know, but I will take time for the players to gel and work with the tactic.
    Last edited by Saner2oo2; 02-08-2010 at 15:31.

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    Sorry I should have said the formation I use 4231 has 2 attacking wingers and one attacking mid, my team isn't blessed with creative attacking mids I only have one thats stands out, and I have some talented pacey wingers good at crossing and dribbling so I think it would be hard for me to adapt to your formation. At the moment I guess I'm really finding it hard to utilize my strikers, I have fast pacey strikers great at finishing and composure I'v tried alternating their role from advanced forward, poacher and target man so I can play the ball in behind with use target man ticked but I cant find a clear answer what works best. I'm thinking that maybe a target man who is good in the air is the only way to get the best out of my team and tactics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperChaos View Post
    I've played this series for a long time and had reasonable success, but since 2010 I have struggled so much. I've researched over 20 hours in the forums read TT&F and still I can find no consistency with this new game.

    I started a journeyman save a while back starting at Blue Square South, It took me 4 Long seasons just to reach the play-offs which I lost, this is soo frustrating because of how long it takes to complete a season and how much detail I have put in my management and tactics. So finally I broke and used the corner exploit tactic, 5th and 6th season comfortably promoted my thinking at this time is that maybe the match engine isn't that well developed for the lower divisions.

    I now find myself in league 2 I've made a 20 odd superb signings, media prediction says i'm favourites to be relegated but that was before I made so many great signings. at least 5 of my player are said to be leading league 1 players the other 6 leading league 2 players with the addition of the corner exploit I'm thinking another promotion. 10 games through I'm in the relegation zone my team is playing awful the opposition are dominating in every match, ok maybe its because my team needs time to 'settle' in just like Torres at liverpool... but then I look at my team compared to the ones I'm being thrashed by and I think how? especially with a corner tactic.
    So I downloaded FMScout to see how my best 11 compared with other teams in my division, my teams rating wins hands down in fact its at the same level as a lower championship side...and im in league 2 and struggling wth!

    If I imagined this in real life its like Man City have signed a load of players who are capable of winning the premier league but they need time to settle in so they likely to finish mid-table reasonable as it has happened.

    Comparision to my team who are in league 2 and struggling but should be able to be leading in league 1 how is this happening no matter the average tactics I may be playing or the time needed to 'gel' don't you think I should be dominating even without a corner exploit? I'm by no means a tactical idiot after playing this series over 10 years and watching alot of football you'd think you'd have some decent tactical knowledge but I just can't win consistently in this game and have very little success why is this?

    Really not bragging but it must be your tactics (cliche i know). I Took Oxford from the Blue Square Prem to winning the Premier Leauge and Europa League in 8 seasons.

    I'm certainly no expert and i've never had such an achievement in all my years of playing CM/FM so it can be done.

    Each year i bought (well signed on frees) shed loads of new players and had no issues with them blending in. Have a try with my tactic. It's an attacking 4-1-2-1-2 but pretty solid at the back. I've had great success with this in all the leagues i've won: http://www.mediafire.com/?8uxjkf2kph2ys7n

    If i can give you any advice though its look to pick up free transfers every year to gradually build up a decent squad. There are some great players you can pick up for nothing!
    Last edited by dave byrd; 02-08-2010 at 18:50.

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    Wow what a difference your WSM 4-2-3-1 has made to my team seriously!! I tried it out in 3 consecutive away games and I dominated them like I'm Barcelona playing at home, possession around 60% at least 20 shots 10 on target 6 clear cut chances I just hope this continues we'll soon find out! I'm surprised this has worked so well because after all my reading through forums and TT&F I gathered that the best way to play in lower divisions is a fast counter attacking long ball tactic so I never thought to play slow and narrow especially away from home. I really don't understand it maybe narrow formations play out much better than wide ones?

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    It all depends on your players. If you have the ability (like you said in the op) you should force your game on to the opponents rather then the other way around.

    You can now start chanting its just like watching Brazil while you thump clubs

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperChaos View Post
    maybe narrow formations play out much better than wide ones?
    Yes! Narrow is the way to play on FM10.

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    I think people that used to be strong in versions like fm05 struggle in these versions because of the shift what the sliders do. You have to change your old thinking from how you'd set up a team in FM05 and adapt to the new meaning of mentality etc etc. Personally I haven't been able to do it, and I know where you're coming from as I've experienced the same frustration as you have with tactics in '10. You can't really get around it by signing quality players as if the tactics aren't right it'll just end up frustrating you even more.

    In my opinion since FM 09 and the introduction of WWFAN etc to help out with the match engine things have become very strange for people who liked the way the tactics interface worked in earlier versions.

    I don't know what advice to give you other than don't take TT & F as a bible and try to come to your own understanding of the game, because a lot of explanations from TT&F contradict not only each other but also things developers like Paul C have said and general logic too. Finally though, I don't think it's possible as I believe the sliders have become so confused by trying to do too many things with too few sliders, that it doesn't really make rational sense any more.
    Last edited by pauly15; 03-08-2010 at 08:51. Reason: typo

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    Quote Originally Posted by pauly15 View Post

    I don't know what advice to give you other than don't take TT & F as a bible and try to come to your own understanding of the game, because a lot of explanations from TT&F contradict not only each other but also things developers like Paul C have said and general logic too. Finally though, I don't think it's possible as I believe the sliders have become so confused by trying to do too many things with too few sliders, that it doesn't really make rational sense any more.
    I have to agree with you on that it does contradict itself in so many ways, while reading through it they'll suggest something and i'll find myself arguing with it on many occasions and its kind of written like their way is the 'right' way. Its really hard trying to create a tactic which is strong and not easily broken down, the tactic system (at least going by TT&F) at the moment seems to be like if you want to strengthen one thing you'll become weaker at another so your back to step one there doesn't seem to be any progress of making a better tactic.

    With that said I'm currently playing Saner2002's 4-2-3-1 formation and I'm playing superb which is maybe a little unrealistic because throughout my research into tactics it seems very well known that you will struggle if you try to play short narrow attractive football like arsenal in the lower leagues.

    But hey its been awhile since I've enjoyed playing this game so I don't care and finally I don't need the corner exploit to try and balance things out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperChaos View Post
    Wow what a difference your WSM 4-2-3-1 has made to my team seriously!! I tried it out in 3 consecutive away games and I dominated them like I'm Barcelona playing at home, possession around 60% at least 20 shots 10 on target 6 clear cut chances I just hope this continues we'll soon find out! I'm surprised this has worked so well because after all my reading through forums and TT&F I gathered that the best way to play in lower divisions is a fast counter attacking long ball tactic so I never thought to play slow and narrow especially away from home. I really don't understand it maybe narrow formations play out much better than wide ones?
    Glad it worked for you, and I hope it continues to work

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    More than just tactics to take advantage of the ME. Finding and hunting down players to fit your tactic is vitally important as well. Always give new comers time to gel and hopefully, you keep signings to a minimum, get them while they are young and slowly ease them in, by the time they are good enough, usually they are already gelled in. Old experienced players usually don't have too much of this gelling issue, they perform decently well even though you sign them only to expect them to play 1 or 2 seasons. But it is usually good enough because they come with quite alot of quality.

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