Is this wrong, or do I just not know the rules?

[Smallen]

Here we have England beating Poland 1-0 in the group stage at the euros:
http://img191.yfrog.com/img191/7380/england10poland.png

And here's the table, with England and Poland equal on everything:
http://img46.yfrog.com/img46/3533/en...ltoqualify.jpg

Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't England qualify due to beating Poland?

[mrmeee17]

Since three teams are level on points, I assume you'd have to do a head to head for all three?

[baker.simon]

I'd say your right, have a look under the competition rules. It may say something under there about it?

[Tomer]

Since three teams are level on points, I assume you'd have to do a head to head for all three?

We have a winner! What were the France - England and France - Poland results?

[baker.simon]

Since three teams are level on points, I assume you'd have to do a head to head for all three?

I'd have thought that goals scored would come before head to head?

[Tomer]

I'd have thought that goals scored would come before head to head?

Both scored 5!

[Smallen]

erm, Poland beat France 2-1, and France beat England 3-1.

But I don't get what France have to do with it? They came top with a better goal difference

[Barkermush]

I'm guessing England lost to France, France lost to Poland and Poland lost to England, obviously.
Would have thought goals scored came into it...

[baker.simon]

Both scored 5!

I meant France, they scored 7 i think it was.

[mrmeee17]

I'd have thought that goals scored would come before head to head?

England and Poland can't be separated based on that, and I'm not sure you can separate one from three, and then the next from the remaining two, if all three are level on points.

[baker.simon]

Sam_Allen - Try the competition rules. It should say how groups are decided in there.

[Tomer]

erm, Poland beat France 2-1, and France beat England 3-1.

But I don't get what France have to do with it? They came top with a better goal difference

Click the 'rules' tab on the second screenshot you posted? It should state the rules right there. There have been more people on here thinking their league table was odd but it always turned out to be right in the end

[Barkermush]

I would like to know how it is decided, because they only play each other once, so how would the head to head rule work? That is, if that is the rule used..

[Tomer]

On my save it says

Goal Difference
Goals Scored
Results Between Teams


Poland scored more in the results between teams, I think.

[Smallen]

http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/1936/eurorules.jpg

There's the rules. I'm still not getting how France are involved. Surely England qualify as they beat Poland?

[zebanumut]

It was a random pick i guess,AI couldn't sorted it out so it picked poland lol
surely somethings wrong there

[Barkermush]

Yeah you're right, going off the rules

Goal Difference : They both have the same Goal Difference
Goals Scored : They have both scored the same amount of goals.
Results Between Teams : England beat Poland 1-0 so England should qaulify ..

[Tomer]

I did a quick google (http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=...1Zesnnf5InBIGQ) and the official rules are as follows:

The ranking of each team in each group will be determined as follows:
a) greatest number of points obtained in all group matches;
b) goal difference in all group matches;
c) greatest number of goals scored in all group matches.

If two or more teams are equal on the basis of the above three criteria,
their rankings will be determined as follows:
d) greatest number of points obtained in the group matches between
the teams concerned;
e) goal difference resulting from the group matches between the
teams concerned;
f) greater number of goals scored in all group matches between the
teams concerned;
g) drawing of lots by the FIFA Organising Committee.

I would say that the teams concerned in this are England and Poland only, but the game seems to take France into account as well.

[Cougar2010]

As has been already pointed out you need to discount the Portugal games and do a new league table.

The only games that count are:

France v Poland - (1-2)
France v England - (3-1)
England v Poland - (1-0)


League table is then:

         Pts   GF   GA   GD
France    3     4    3   +1
Poland    3     2    2    0
-------------------------------
England   3     2    3   -1

France & Poland therefore qualify.

[Barkermush]

Ah ok, thats confusing. I don't understand why France are brought into it same as the OP. France have a better goal diffrence than England and Poland so they qaulify.

So then you would have thought its between Poland and England, ah but oh well if thats the rules, then thats the rules, unlucky on England.

[Smallen]

I see Cougar, that clears it up. Fabio lost his job for those weird rules

A mod can close this if they wish

[Terra21]

I don't think France have anything to do with why England didn't qualify as the Rules in Tomers post say...

the ranking of each team in each group will be determined as follows:
a) greatest number of points obtained in all group matches;
b) goal difference in all group matches;
c) greatest number of goals scored in all group matches.

If two or more teams are equal on the basis of the above three criteria,
their rankings will be determined as follows:

So I don't think Cougars is right since the rules say the teams concerned, which France isn't in it cause of goal difference.

d) greatest number of points obtained in the group matches between
the teams concerned Edit: this is where England should of qualified because they got 3 points from beating Poland );
e) goal difference resulting from the group matches between the
teams concerned; (This is where England should of been placed above since they won 1-0)
f) greater number of goals scored in all group matches between the
teams concerned; (not entirely sure what this is, but they both scored 2 and England beat Poland)
g) drawing of lots by the FIFA Organising Committee.

Hope that's all right

[mrmeee17]

I did a quick google (http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=...1Zesnnf5InBIGQ) and the official rules are as follows:

The ranking of each team in each group will be determined as follows:
a) greatest number of points obtained in all group matches;
b) goal difference in all group matches;
c) greatest number of goals scored in all group matches.

If two or more teams are equal on the basis of the above three criteria,
their rankings will be determined as follows:
d) greatest number of points obtained in the group matches between
the teams concerned;
e) goal difference resulting from the group matches between the
teams concerned;
f) greater number of goals scored in all group matches between the
teams concerned;
g) drawing of lots by the FIFA Organising Committee.

I would say that the teams concerned in this are England and Poland only, but the game seems to take France into account as well.

If that is correct, then FM seems to be wrong.

[Cougar2010]

I don't think France have anything to do with why England didn't qualify as the Rules in Tomers post say...

the ranking of each team in each group will be determined as follows:
a) greatest number of points obtained in all group matches;
b) goal difference in all group matches;
c) greatest number of goals scored in all group matches.

If two or more teams are equal on the basis of the above three criteria,
their rankings will be determined as follows:

So I don't think Cougars is right since the rules say the teams concerned, which France isn't in it cause of goal difference.

d) greatest number of points obtained in the group matches between
the teams concerned Edit: this is where England should of qualified because they got 3 points from beating Poland );
e) goal difference resulting from the group matches between the
teams concerned; (This is where England should of been placed above since they won 1-0)
f) greater number of goals scored in all group matches between the
teams concerned; (not entirely sure what this is, but they both scored 2 and England beat Poland)
g) drawing of lots by the FIFA Organising Committee.

Hope that's all right

Thats how FM treats it and why England didn't qualify within the game.

As to the question of "Is FM wrong?" Thats another debate and I can see the case for not including France as others have pointed out.

I'm can't remember in past instances if all three teams had identical records or if it was just two out of the three.

[RBKalle]

The game takes France into account because they also have 6 points.

Therefore, as already explained, a "new" table for the group has to be created, and in the new table England is 3rd with the worst GD.

The rule is right both in FM and RL.