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Thread: Is this wrong, or do I just not know the rules?

  1. #1
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    Default Is this wrong, or do I just not know the rules?

    Here we have England beating Poland 1-0 in the group stage at the euros:
    http://img191.yfrog.com/img191/7380/england10poland.png

    And here's the table, with England and Poland equal on everything:
    http://img46.yfrog.com/img46/3533/en...ltoqualify.jpg

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't England qualify due to beating Poland?

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    Default Re: Is this wrong, or do I just not know the rules?

    Since three teams are level on points, I assume you'd have to do a head to head for all three?

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    Default Re: Is this wrong, or do I just not know the rules?

    I'd say your right, have a look under the competition rules. It may say something under there about it?

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    Default Re: Is this wrong, or do I just not know the rules?

    Quote Originally Posted by mrmeee17 View Post
    Since three teams are level on points, I assume you'd have to do a head to head for all three?
    We have a winner! What were the France - England and France - Poland results?

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    Default Re: Is this wrong, or do I just not know the rules?

    Quote Originally Posted by mrmeee17 View Post
    Since three teams are level on points, I assume you'd have to do a head to head for all three?
    I'd have thought that goals scored would come before head to head?

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    Default Re: Is this wrong, or do I just not know the rules?

    Quote Originally Posted by baker.simon View Post
    I'd have thought that goals scored would come before head to head?
    Both scored 5!

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    Default Re: Is this wrong, or do I just not know the rules?

    erm, Poland beat France 2-1, and France beat England 3-1.

    But I don't get what France have to do with it? They came top with a better goal difference

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    Default Re: Is this wrong, or do I just not know the rules?

    I'm guessing England lost to France, France lost to Poland and Poland lost to England, obviously.
    Would have thought goals scored came into it...

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    Default Re: Is this wrong, or do I just not know the rules?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomer View Post
    Both scored 5!
    I meant France, they scored 7 i think it was.

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    Default Re: Is this wrong, or do I just not know the rules?

    Quote Originally Posted by baker.simon View Post
    I'd have thought that goals scored would come before head to head?
    England and Poland can't be separated based on that, and I'm not sure you can separate one from three, and then the next from the remaining two, if all three are level on points.

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    Default Re: Is this wrong, or do I just not know the rules?

    Sam_Allen - Try the competition rules. It should say how groups are decided in there.

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    Default Re: Is this wrong, or do I just not know the rules?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_Alllen View Post
    erm, Poland beat France 2-1, and France beat England 3-1.

    But I don't get what France have to do with it? They came top with a better goal difference
    Click the 'rules' tab on the second screenshot you posted? It should state the rules right there. There have been more people on here thinking their league table was odd but it always turned out to be right in the end

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    Default Re: Is this wrong, or do I just not know the rules?

    I would like to know how it is decided, because they only play each other once, so how would the head to head rule work? That is, if that is the rule used..

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    Default Re: Is this wrong, or do I just not know the rules?

    On my save it says

    Goal Difference
    Goals Scored
    Results Between Teams


    Poland scored more in the results between teams, I think.

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    Default Re: Is this wrong, or do I just not know the rules?

    http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/1936/eurorules.jpg

    There's the rules. I'm still not getting how France are involved. Surely England qualify as they beat Poland?

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    Default Re: Is this wrong, or do I just not know the rules?

    It was a random pick i guess,AI couldn't sorted it out so it picked poland lol
    surely somethings wrong there

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    Default Re: Is this wrong, or do I just not know the rules?

    Yeah you're right, going off the rules

    Goal Difference : They both have the same Goal Difference
    Goals Scored : They have both scored the same amount of goals.
    Results Between Teams : England beat Poland 1-0 so England should qaulify ..

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    Default Re: Is this wrong, or do I just not know the rules?

    I did a quick google (http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=...1Zesnnf5InBIGQ) and the official rules are as follows:

    The ranking of each team in each group will be determined as follows:
    a) greatest number of points obtained in all group matches;
    b) goal difference in all group matches;
    c) greatest number of goals scored in all group matches.

    If two or more teams are equal on the basis of the above three criteria,
    their rankings will be determined as follows:
    d) greatest number of points obtained in the group matches between
    the teams concerned;
    e) goal difference resulting from the group matches between the
    teams concerned;
    f) greater number of goals scored in all group matches between the
    teams concerned;
    g) drawing of lots by the FIFA Organising Committee.

    I would say that the teams concerned in this are England and Poland only, but the game seems to take France into account as well.

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    Default Re: Is this wrong, or do I just not know the rules?

    As has been already pointed out you need to discount the Portugal games and do a new league table.

    The only games that count are:

    France v Poland - (1-2)
    France v England - (3-1)
    England v Poland - (1-0)


    League table is then:
    Code:
             Pts   GF   GA   GD
    France    3     4    3   +1
    Poland    3     2    2    0
    -------------------------------
    England   3     2    3   -1

    France & Poland therefore qualify.

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    Default Re: Is this wrong, or do I just not know the rules?

    Ah ok, thats confusing. I don't understand why France are brought into it same as the OP. France have a better goal diffrence than England and Poland so they qaulify.

    So then you would have thought its between Poland and England, ah but oh well if thats the rules, then thats the rules, unlucky on England.

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    Default Re: Is this wrong, or do I just not know the rules?

    I see Cougar, that clears it up. Fabio lost his job for those weird rules

    A mod can close this if they wish

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Is this wrong, or do I just not know the rules?

    I don't think France have anything to do with why England didn't qualify as the Rules in Tomers post say...

    the ranking of each team in each group will be determined as follows:
    a) greatest number of points obtained in all group matches;
    b) goal difference in all group matches;
    c) greatest number of goals scored in all group matches.

    If two or more teams are equal on the basis of the above three criteria,
    their rankings will be determined as follows:

    So I don't think Cougars is right since the rules say the teams concerned, which France isn't in it cause of goal difference.

    d) greatest number of points obtained in the group matches between
    the teams concerned Edit: this is where England should of qualified because they got 3 points from beating Poland );
    e) goal difference resulting from the group matches between the
    teams concerned; (This is where England should of been placed above since they won 1-0)
    f) greater number of goals scored in all group matches between the
    teams concerned; (not entirely sure what this is, but they both scored 2 and England beat Poland)
    g) drawing of lots by the FIFA Organising Committee.

    Hope that's all right
    Last edited by Terra21; 17-01-2010 at 23:03.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Is this wrong, or do I just not know the rules?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomer View Post
    I did a quick google (http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=...1Zesnnf5InBIGQ) and the official rules are as follows:

    The ranking of each team in each group will be determined as follows:
    a) greatest number of points obtained in all group matches;
    b) goal difference in all group matches;
    c) greatest number of goals scored in all group matches.

    If two or more teams are equal on the basis of the above three criteria,
    their rankings will be determined as follows:

    d) greatest number of points obtained in the group matches between
    the teams concerned;
    e) goal difference resulting from the group matches between the
    teams concerned;
    f) greater number of goals scored in all group matches between the
    teams concerned;
    g) drawing of lots by the FIFA Organising Committee.

    I would say that the teams concerned in this are England and Poland only, but the game seems to take France into account as well.
    If that is correct, then FM seems to be wrong.

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    Default Re: Is this wrong, or do I just not know the rules?

    Quote Originally Posted by Terra21 View Post
    I don't think France have anything to do with why England didn't qualify as the Rules in Tomers post say...

    the ranking of each team in each group will be determined as follows:
    a) greatest number of points obtained in all group matches;
    b) goal difference in all group matches;
    c) greatest number of goals scored in all group matches.

    If two or more teams are equal on the basis of the above three criteria,
    their rankings will be determined as follows:

    So I don't think Cougars is right since the rules say the teams concerned, which France isn't in it cause of goal difference.

    d) greatest number of points obtained in the group matches between
    the teams concerned Edit: this is where England should of qualified because they got 3 points from beating Poland );
    e) goal difference resulting from the group matches between the
    teams concerned; (This is where England should of been placed above since they won 1-0)
    f) greater number of goals scored in all group matches between the
    teams concerned; (not entirely sure what this is, but they both scored 2 and England beat Poland)
    g) drawing of lots by the FIFA Organising Committee.

    Hope that's all right


    Thats how FM treats it and why England didn't qualify within the game.

    As to the question of "Is FM wrong?" Thats another debate and I can see the case for not including France as others have pointed out.

    I'm can't remember in past instances if all three teams had identical records or if it was just two out of the three.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Is this wrong, or do I just not know the rules?

    The game takes France into account because they also have 6 points.

    Therefore, as already explained, a "new" table for the group has to be created, and in the new table England is 3rd with the worst GD.

    The rule is right both in FM and RL.

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