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Thread: You all moan about the game but.....

  1. #1
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    you still continue to buy it and play it for endless seasons,you constantly moan about shots to goal ratio where the problem most likely lies in poor tactics and even worse strikers.

    a new patch comes out and you moan,a newer patch comes out and you moan even more

    the game wasnt designed to be easy where you could just edit teams/players (something i think should be removed) so you can just walk through a league and win every cup season after season, you have to acctually "manage" your team which is a point a lot of people seem to miss out on, yes the game does have bugs and it seems things are not right in the gameplay etc but most of you just want the easy path to winning and put no thought or time at all into the game.

    yes i have had the same moans in the past but now i would rather sit down and at least give the game a challenge and try to work out what i did wrong in previous games.

  2. #2
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    you still continue to buy it and play it for endless seasons,you constantly moan about shots to goal ratio where the problem most likely lies in poor tactics and even worse strikers.

    a new patch comes out and you moan,a newer patch comes out and you moan even more

    the game wasnt designed to be easy where you could just edit teams/players (something i think should be removed) so you can just walk through a league and win every cup season after season, you have to acctually "manage" your team which is a point a lot of people seem to miss out on, yes the game does have bugs and it seems things are not right in the gameplay etc but most of you just want the easy path to winning and put no thought or time at all into the game.

    yes i have had the same moans in the past but now i would rather sit down and at least give the game a challenge and try to work out what i did wrong in previous games.

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    Correct, we wouldn't have it any other way!

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    i thought the goals to shots ratio in 8.0.1 was ok , not brilliant , but playable .

    now in the 8.0.2 it seems there are too many goals , making the game unrealistic .
    therefore IMO SI should have just left that feature and concentrated more on adjusting the board confidence , and making sure there are no little mistakes e.g. Defoe .

    also player stats seem to be unrealistic in the 8.0.2 patch .

    therefore IMO SI should have only fixed the board confidence in the 8.0.2 and left the rest .

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    god people stop sticking up for si they deserve everything they get every moan is for the millions they recive and and the promises they fail to keep weres my £39 pounds i want it back

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by magnoliadave:
    god people stop sticking up for si they deserve everything they get every moan is for the millions they recive and and the promises they fail to keep weres my £39 pounds i want it back </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    its not about up sticking for SI,you have a choice, buy the game or not, but if you was that clever u would read the forums then decide whether to buy the game or not, every game has bugs but you always seem to moan when u cant win at it.

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    I WAS man city i won just about everything the games too easy and too unrialistic. do you think si will give you a pat on the back for being a mummys boy get a life mate

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by magnoliadave:
    I WAS man city i won just about everything the games too easy and too unrialistic. do you think si will give you a pat on the back for being a mummys boy get a life mate </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    no, and you wont get your £39 quid back either so cry me a river

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    u must be a mummys boy listening to justin timberlake

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by magnoliadave:
    u must be a mummys boy listening to justin timberlake </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    now thats original,hold my kidneys while i laugh

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    People "moan" because they want the game to be better or in some cases at least work. Why do you have such a problem with that?

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    A blinded "omg u moan too much lulz" rant.

    The points brought up are usually valid and backed.

    Next time try forming a solid arguement.

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Apocalypse:
    you still continue to buy it and play it for endless seasons,you constantly moan about shots to goal ratio where the problem most likely lies in poor tactics and even worse strikers.

    a new patch comes out and you moan,a newer patch comes out and you moan even more

    the game wasnt designed to be easy where you could just edit teams/players (something i think should be removed) so you can just walk through a league and win every cup season after season, you have to acctually "manage" your team which is a point a lot of people seem to miss out on, yes the game does have bugs and it seems things are not right in the gameplay etc but most of you just want the easy path to winning and put no thought or time at all into the game.

    yes i have had the same moans in the past but now i would rather sit down and at least give the game a challenge and try to work out what i did wrong in previous games. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


    these kind of posts are as annoying as the ones about not being able to win or winning everything or too many shots or not enough shots.


    what makes you worse is that you sound like you want to marry miles daughter and as a result of that you are doing some serious brown nosing.


    btw...the game is ok. better than before. i started a new game from scracth and everything/most things appear to be the same

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Apocalypse:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by magnoliadave:
    u must be a mummys boy listening to justin timberlake </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    now thats original,hold my kidneys while i laugh </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


    keep this up and magnoliadave will make sure that he holds them for you....outside of you body

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aaron_AO:
    A blinded "omg u moan too much lulz" rant.

    The points brought up are usually valid and backed.

    Next time try forming a solid arguement. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    oh and a valid arguement is my "shots to goals ratio" is crap,what a load of ****,your tactics are wrong or your strikers are not good enough

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    some people have provided evidence of worldclass strikers having around 20 shots on target and none going in. Having clear chances and them not going in cannot contribute to "change your tactic". Its called luck.

    Only an idiot would say "change your tactic" when someone is creating LOTS of clear-cut chances. When they're creating clear-cut chances and they're not going in, its the games fault.

    Look at the evidence on the forum. Search around. Then make your blind-sighted review.

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    imo every person who is not happy with this game should be aloud there money back its a well known fact that if you buy faulty goods then they deserve a full refund the game sould get better with each patch what we have here is a case of 'omg we messed up' lets just hope they dont reconise then to bring the new patch out on VALENTINES DAY was a good one basically si saying they wre doing us a favor but when it comes down to it they were taking us for idiots and robbing us and rubbing salt into the womb

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nostromo:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Apocalypse:
    you still continue to buy it and play it for endless seasons,you constantly moan about shots to goal ratio where the problem most likely lies in poor tactics and even worse strikers.

    a new patch comes out and you moan,a newer patch comes out and you moan even more

    the game wasnt designed to be easy where you could just edit teams/players (something i think should be removed) so you can just walk through a league and win every cup season after season, you have to acctually "manage" your team which is a point a lot of people seem to miss out on, yes the game does have bugs and it seems things are not right in the gameplay etc but most of you just want the easy path to winning and put no thought or time at all into the game.

    yes i have had the same moans in the past but now i would rather sit down and at least give the game a challenge and try to work out what i did wrong in previous games. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


    these kind of posts are as annoying as the ones about not being able to win or winning everything or too many shots or not enough shots.


    what makes you worse is that you sound like you want to marry miles daughter and as a result of that you are doing some serious brown nosing.


    btw...the game is ok. better than before. i started a new game from scracth and everything/most things appear to be the same </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    i also think the game is quite playable but u have to at least put some effort into it to get some success,its not as easy as FM07 which is the challenge but most people are quite happy to reply with stupid posts about players stats and tactics when its "your" gameplay that needs adjusting

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    The game is playable, I just hate these high scoring matches. Yeah its great winning 6-3 or something like that, but I don't want it constantly.

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by magnoliadave:
    I WAS man city i won just about everything the games too easy and too unrialistic. do you think si will give you a pat on the back for being a mummys boy get a life mate </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Mate, if you want realism - get your badges, and quit moaning.

    It's a bleeding computer game.

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by magnoliadave:
    imo every person who is not happy with this game should be aloud there money back its a well known fact that if you buy faulty goods then they deserve a full refund the game sould get better with each patch what we have here is a case of 'omg we messed up' lets just hope they dont reconise then to bring the new patch out on VALENTINES DAY was a good one basically si saying they wre doing us a favor but when it comes down to it they were taking us for idiots and robbing us and rubbing salt into the womb </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    rubbing salt into to the womb??

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    I disagree with money back.

    The game is not faulty. It just has a few mistakes which can be easily fixed by a research/player-stat moderator

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    rubbing salt into to the womb??[/QUOTE]

    you know what i meen lol

  24. #24
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nostromo:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by magnoliadave:
    imo every person who is not happy with this game should be aloud there money back its a well known fact that if you buy faulty goods then they deserve a full refund the game sould get better with each patch what we have here is a case of 'omg we messed up' lets just hope they dont reconise then to bring the new patch out on VALENTINES DAY was a good one basically si saying they wre doing us a favor but when it comes down to it they were taking us for idiots and robbing us and rubbing salt into the womb </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    rubbing salt into to the womb?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I'm guessing that was a clever pun on the Valentine's Day theme.

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    Maybe not then.

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dafuge:
    Maybe not then. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    im not that clever but im right

    tell you what ill send you my copy of fm08 and you send me in return a crisp copy of cm97/98

    bring back the good old days

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    yes, we moan. And Im very proud of that! because if we dont, they will keep pushing garbage to us while we give them money. If ppl was like that when it comes to politics...
    Well, the thing is, The game is obscure. They dont give you much info in what each thing does or tell you when you are on the right or the wrong tactic. I felt like a blind man the first time I played. And after hours and hours on forums around the net I managed to do a tactic that works on the match engine. But Im not happy with that, because I should be able to figure this out by playing the game or reading the manual, not doing a extent research that gave me more headache than a college homework. People play games to have fun. They dont want a second job.
    People complain but keep playing you say. Well if I have payed for something I expect that it has the minimum quality to be enjoyable, and by the amount of complains on this forums and around the web I can tell you that this game isnt a succes. It is sad, because we want it to be better because we love it. So we complain and post statistics hoping someone would see that things are wrong and fix it, so we can enjoy the game we love to play. But it seems that they cant do it now. Maybe is the engine core that is broken, maybe they are just making adjustments to "mask" that the engine is flawed, or, if it isnt, too obscure to be understood by the usual player. I dont want to take a course on "How to play FM2008".
    So, we complain and keep playing and going and testing and hoping that it get better, because we love it, because we paid for it and because we deserve it.
    I really found your post ridiculous, you look like a conformed fan boy to me, that cant admit SI havent did their best game here, sorry but thats my opinion.
    Hope they realize that and come up with a way better game for the next version

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Luiz Hemerly:
    yes, we moan. And Im very proud of that! because if we dont, they will keep pushing garbage to us while we give them money. If ppl was like that when it comes to politics...
    Well, the thing is, The game is obscure. They dont give you much info in what each thing does or tell you when you are on the right or the wrong tactic. I felt like a blind man the first time I played. And after hours and hours on forums around the net I managed to do a tactic that works on the match engine. But Im not happy with that, because I should be able to figure this out by playing the game or reading the manual, not doing a extent research that gave me more headache than a college homework. People play games to have fun. They dont want a second job.
    People complain but keep playing you say. Well if I have payed for something I expect that it has the minimum quality to be enjoyable, and by the amount of complains on this forums and around the web I can tell you that this game isnt a succes. It is sad, because we want it to be better because we love it. So we complain and post statistics hoping someone would see that things are wrong and fix it, so we can enjoy the game we love to play. But it seems that they cant do it now. Maybe is the engine core that is broken, maybe they are just making adjustments to "mask" that the engine is flawed, or, if it isnt, too obscure to be understood by the usual player. I dont want to take a course on "How to play FM2008".
    So, we complain and keep playing and going and testing and hoping that it get better, because we love it, because we paid for it and because we deserve it.
    I really found your post ridiculous, you look like a conformed fan boy to me, that cant admit SI havent did their best game here, sorry but thats my opinion.
    Hope they realize that and come up with a way better game for the next version </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    im with you on that one
    by the way would you also like a copy of cm97/98 it comes with the next patch lol

  29. #29
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    MAGNOLIA dave, valentines day, salty wombs...i think there is a message in there

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Apocalypse:
    you still continue to buy it and play it for endless seasons,you constantly moan about shots to goal ratio where the problem most likely lies in poor tactics and even worse strikers.

    a new patch comes out and you moan,a newer patch comes out and you moan even more

    the game wasnt designed to be easy where you could just edit teams/players (something i think should be removed) so you can just walk through a league and win every cup season after season, you have to acctually "manage" your team which is a point a lot of people seem to miss out on, yes the game does have bugs and it seems things are not right in the gameplay etc but most of you just want the easy path to winning and put no thought or time at all into the game.

    yes i have had the same moans in the past but now i would rather sit down and at least give the game a challenge and try to work out what i did wrong in previous games. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    But at least the moaners point-out potential flaws(even if in a destructive manner), whereas this thread is doing nothing at all for anything or anyone.

  31. #31
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    ...and the answer is

    magnoliadave=crazy florist who likes to preserve wombs

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nostromo:
    MAGNOLIA dave, valentines day, salty wombs...i think there is a message in there </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    'correct' im writing a song has to why im splitting up with from girlfriend because of fm

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Apocalypse:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aaron_AO:
    A blinded "omg u moan too much lulz" rant.

    The points brought up are usually valid and backed.

    Next time try forming a solid arguement. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    oh and a valid arguement is my "shots to goals ratio" is crap,what a load of ****,your tactics are wrong or your strikers are not good enough </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
    So, you are saying all those people in that 20 pages long thread have no clue about tactics even though they create countless of clear chances? Their strikers are not good enough even though some of them actually have the best strikers in the game?

    SI acknowledged it was a problem with the game and worked on fixing it for 8.0.2. It's too early to say as I have to play at least one full season before making any conclusions but so far the match engine seems much better regarding the shots to goals ratio.

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    lets be honest we all got hooked on this game due to the brilliance of cm97/98

    id sit up allnight playing and 10 years later still am but its just got to polictical for me

    people try there hardest to make a good game and what they tend to do is fix things that arnt broken

    why not go back to scratch and give customers what they want 'the buzz'

    i certanly dont get it has much has i used to and im sure thats what we all want and thats why we all moan

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by magnoliadave:
    rubbing salt into the womb </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Ha ha! Rubbing salt into where?

  36. #36

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by magnoliadave:
    ...and rubbing salt into the womb </div></BLOCKQUOTE>That sounds painful.

  37. #37
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    which patch is it, it gives me all kinds

  38. #38
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by magnoliadave:
    god people stop sticking up for si they deserve everything they get every moan is for the millions they recive and and the promises they fail to keep weres my £39 pounds i want it back </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Is English not your first language? 39 quid where did you buy it from this man?

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    All the people that moan, what would u do if SI decided they are sick of all the trouble they go through for you lot and decided not to make FM anymore? well you'd moan even more and realise how much of a good job they all do. it cant be easy researching so much info and trying to create the "perfect, most realistic manager experience" if u want to moan just go play LMA or CM and live with the rubbish that they bring to the game!

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    do u also demand your money back if u see a rubbish film in the cinema or for a meal you just burnt

    no wonder our economy is fecked

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    I always love the irony of people moaning about moaning...

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GrahamPoll'sPants:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by magnoliadave:
    ...and rubbing salt into the womb </div></BLOCKQUOTE>That sounds painful. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Made my eyes water just thinking about it...

  43. #43
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    ok, so lets follow that kinda of thinking and just keep quiet and accept that.
    Lets accept that they have done an "ok" job and be content with that.
    Thats great really.
    Hope that no more people gets contamined by that conformist kinda of thinking.
    So, lets think "Its ok to receive only $500 a month because there are people in Africa that dont have what to eat" and accept that. Wouldnt be better that people say "I receive $500 but I want a decent life, I want a place to live, I want food to eat and I DESERVE IT" ? No, lets just sit and be conformed that things could be worse and our **** doesnt stink as much as of other people.

    Really, its sad

  44. #44
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    totally agree if your not happy with the game or the patch then dont play the game or use the patch simple.im just into september on my game and i have't seen any of the complaints people are posting,all this loads of goals in a game an nonsense,people moaning about defenders scoring alot yeah and defenders do score look at laursen at villa hes one of there top scores at moment dose this mean thers a fault in premier league.ok maybe the patch is't wot every one expected but its good enough and it will do me.nice 1 si

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Apocalypse:
    you still continue to buy it and play it for endless seasons,you constantly moan about shots to goal ratio where the problem most likely lies in poor tactics and even worse strikers.

    </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    This post is about as constructive and useful as any moan or rant- its just a counter moan.

    Also considering the shots to goals ratio was a known issue the quote above doesnt support your "arguement" well. Or do you think it normal to see games with 40 odd shots, sometimes more?

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Apocalypse:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nostromo:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Apocalypse:
    you still continue to buy it and play it for endless seasons,you constantly moan about shots to goal ratio where the problem most likely lies in poor tactics and even worse strikers.

    a new patch comes out and you moan,a newer patch comes out and you moan even more

    the game wasnt designed to be easy where you could just edit teams/players (something i think should be removed) so you can just walk through a league and win every cup season after season, you have to acctually "manage" your team which is a point a lot of people seem to miss out on, yes the game does have bugs and it seems things are not right in the gameplay etc but most of you just want the easy path to winning and put no thought or time at all into the game.

    yes i have had the same moans in the past but now i would rather sit down and at least give the game a challenge and try to work out what i did wrong in previous games. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


    these kind of posts are as annoying as the ones about not being able to win or winning everything or too many shots or not enough shots.


    what makes you worse is that you sound like you want to marry miles daughter and as a result of that you are doing some serious brown nosing.


    btw...the game is ok. better than before. i started a new game from scracth and everything/most things appear to be the same </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    i also think the game is quite playable but u have to at least put some effort into it to get some success,its not as easy as FM07 which is the challenge but most people are quite happy to reply with stupid posts about players stats and tactics when its "your" gameplay that needs adjusting </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    When the effort is having to play around issues then thats not the kind of challenge the game should present.

    Its why SI spent a month fixing the match engine.

    Trust me, this topic is much more "stupid" than the ones about stats and tactics, many of which will have contributed in some way in making the game better.

  47. #47
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    9th November 2001
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    a long time ago in a land far,far away a team of people thought up a selection of tactics that are renouned over the cm world for being sheer class.We were the people who brought them their mid-morning snacks.
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by IMT:
    I always love the irony of people moaning about moaning... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    yep

  48. #48
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by magnoliadave:
    god people stop sticking up for si they deserve everything they get every moan is for the millions they recive and and the promises they fail to keep weres my £39 pounds i want it back </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    You paid £39 for FM2008? Where do you shop, Harrads?

  49. #49
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Apocalypse:
    you still continue to buy it and play it for endless seasons,you constantly moan about shots to goal ratio where the problem most likely lies in poor tactics and even worse strikers.

    </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I am unable to comment on the overall merit of your post, or the point that you are making, because I was stopped in my tracks by this ignorant statement which opened it. A lot of time and thought from a number of people went into understanding and debating this issue; that you write if off as you do in fact suggests that the rest of your message isn't worth reading anyway.

  50. #50
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by magnoliadave:
    to bring the new patch out on VALENTINES DAY was a good one basically si saying they wre doing us a favor but when it comes down to it they were taking us for idiots and robbing us and rubbing salt into the womb </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Amen brother

  51. #51
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">they were taking us for idiots and robbing us and rubbing salt into the womb </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


    Miles, the salty womb rubber??

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