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Thread: Total Soccer newbiw needs help

  1. #1
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    Ok I got this game on Friday after reading some threads about poeples dynasties on another board, and thinking this game would be fun.

    Well I know NOTHING about soccer in RL. However, I am a sports fan and have been able to pick up other sports games, so I figured I could do the same with this game no problem. Boy was I wrong.

    So anyways here is a few things I need help with (that I haven't been able to find answers to looking over this board)


    1) "Free" Players. I hear people talking about getting players for "free". however, when I look for players in the game all I see are layers with "loan", "ctr", "Yth" & "inj", next to their names. Where are the "free" players?

    2) I am using St. Albans (I figured why not start at the bottom and try to work my way up). However my team CANNOT score. I have started over 4 times with St. Albans and have never scored a goal in 8 friendlies. 6 of the 8 games were against teams that the game said I should beat, and I never lost by less than 0-4. And then the other 2 games were against my own U18s team , which I am guessing should be easy wins, and I lost 0-6 & 0-5. I have tried EVERY tactic post I could find and nothing seems to help.


    Aside form those two main things I could really use some good background info on how to get an understadning on the game. Aside form this board I have not been able to find many sites wiht info to help.

  2. #2
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    Ok I got this game on Friday after reading some threads about poeples dynasties on another board, and thinking this game would be fun.

    Well I know NOTHING about soccer in RL. However, I am a sports fan and have been able to pick up other sports games, so I figured I could do the same with this game no problem. Boy was I wrong.

    So anyways here is a few things I need help with (that I haven't been able to find answers to looking over this board)


    1) "Free" Players. I hear people talking about getting players for "free". however, when I look for players in the game all I see are layers with "loan", "ctr", "Yth" & "inj", next to their names. Where are the "free" players?

    2) I am using St. Albans (I figured why not start at the bottom and try to work my way up). However my team CANNOT score. I have started over 4 times with St. Albans and have never scored a goal in 8 friendlies. 6 of the 8 games were against teams that the game said I should beat, and I never lost by less than 0-4. And then the other 2 games were against my own U18s team , which I am guessing should be easy wins, and I lost 0-6 & 0-5. I have tried EVERY tactic post I could find and nothing seems to help.


    Aside form those two main things I could really use some good background info on how to get an understadning on the game. Aside form this board I have not been able to find many sites wiht info to help.

  3. #3
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    well...

    1) players for free mean that they are not contracted by another cluband therefore you can sign them without needing to pay a transfer fee.

    2) this would be a combination of team selection and tatics, i'd recommend starting out with default tatic settings and letting your assistant manager choose your match-day team.

    hope this helps

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    Jokerace, I was in your exact same predicament earlier this year and the forum was extremely helpful.

    Here's My Newbie Thread about it


    Good luck!

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    Woo-hoo!! And now sposfan is on the helping side of the ledger! My work here is done!

    Seriously:

    In addition to sposfan's thread, the thread More newbie questions will probably also be helpful to you for wrapping your head around the game.

    1.) First, read Couple newbie questions... for my brief overview of "FM contract law", you'll want to be familiar with it all anyways.

    To find players who are currently free agents, you can use Search | Filter | Contract Status | Unattached to find players without a club.

    Later, when you want to sign a Bosman transfer "on a free" before his current contract has quite expired, you'll use Search | Filter | Contract Status | Expiring

    (I think, or maybe its "Unprotected")

    2.) Scoring.. yeah, now that is the challenge.

    As a not-familiar-with-the-game thing, the key attributes for your strikers (SC) are going to be Finishing and Composure ... but a bunch of other things will help: Off The Ball, Anticipation, Acceleration, Technique. High Morale is pretty important, too.

    For your wingers (ML, MR) you'll want Pace, Dribbling, and Crossing .. with a bit of Passing and Decisions.

    For your midfielders (AMC, MC, DM), you'll want Passing, Creativity, and Team Work for offense .. but I always like to get a lot of Stamina, Work Rate, and Tackling, too.

    Flair, Technique, Creativity, and Passing will be important to most attacking situations.

    Now that we've covered who you want to play, in general, the key question to ask yourself is "Why am I not scoring?"

    Answers may range from

    "I never get the ball past the halfway line" to
    "My strikers can't seem to score from the 6-yard-line," with about a dozen variations in between... and each of those problems is going to have its own solution.

    Ideally, you want to get to the point where the reason suggests a solution to you.

  6. #6
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    lol amaroq!

    One further suggestion I would make is to print out the official hints and tips by Marc Vaughn and also all the important posts in my thread and the others suggested by amaroq. I printed out literally over a hundred pages, but have read them through several times and they really have helped me get my head around the game.

    Also, the biggest and best resource for the game is right here in the forums. Despite the fact that people like us start so far behind those that have grown up with football, and the fact that we have to learn what they instinctively know, the patience they show in helping us learn is truly amazing.

    If you want you can email me also at sposfanATsympaticoDOTca.

    Elan

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Well I know NOTHING about soccer in RL. However, I am a sports fan and have been able to pick up other sports games, so I figured I could do the same with this game no problem. Boy was I wrong. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Don't let that get in your way. FM is a deep game, and will take anyone a while to pick-up. Especially since it's just a text-based management sim with no real "action".

    If you're a general sports fan and can enjoy new sports, you're well on your way to playing FM.

    Before I got into FM with FM06, I knew noting about football either. The only advantage I had was that I had been playing SI's EHM prior to getting into FM, but everything else was a learning process. And all I can say now is that it was fun learning it all. In fact, I'm still learning since the sport doesn't seem to exist here in the US. So there's nothing to really learn from.

    Anyway, that's all I wanted to say - just stick with the game. It's great fun once you catch on to it.

  8. #8
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    One more suggestion that also hastened my understanding of the game is to watch as many pro games as you can. I have the DTV regional sports package and get 2 24 hour soccer channels.

    Watching it is a huge help, the actual rules are relatively easy to understand, but it's the intricacies that are much more difficult to grasp.

  9. #9
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    The key thing you need to learn is that there is no such game as Soccer......tis Football my friend

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    Thanks for all the helpful replies guys.

    After reading up on everything I have to admit I am still VERY lost about what I am doing. However, I just decided to go ahead and "learn on the run" while I play and read.

    Just to give a little update about my goings on now. After reading about 75% of the links and info posted, I started a new game with Hyde. After 18 games so far we have a 4-4-10 record, at -11 goals, and have 16 points, in 19th place.

    I am using a 5-2-4 set up, mainly because when I was in in 4-4-2 we didn't score a goal in our first 6 games. We have now scored 22 goals in our last 12. (I guess more players up front with a chance to score helps ).


    Well anyways I now have a new question.


    In a game I just played we went up against Worchester (our 2nd match against them this season, we lost the first match up 0-3). The game was tied 2-2 after 90 minutes and 3 added minutes.

    Then instead of the game ending in a draw (as all my other tied games have) the game kept going up to the 120 minute mark. Then it went into a shoot-out. (we won the shoot-out 6-5)


    1) why did this game keep going and not end in a draw like the others?

    2) For the shoo-out I had no idea how many players to pick, so I picked 10. It seemed like Worchester only picked 8, but it went through all 10 of the players I picked and a player or 2 of theirs got second shots. So......

    2a) How many players are you supposed to pick for a shoot-out?


    Again thanks for all the great answers and info!

  11. #11
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    hmm can't edit...in my above post I said this team uses a 5-2-4..that should read 3-2-5.

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    Wow.

    Okay, maybe we should have started back a step or two in introducing you to the game.

    The rules of each competition may differ.

    In a league match, as you've seen, a tie is a valid outcome. If the scores are level after 90 minutes (plus stoppage time), we each get 1 point and go home.

    However, concurrent with the league, you may be entered in one or more "Cups". These are single-elimination tournaments, much like the NFL playoffs are at home.

    Again, the rules may differ from Cup to Cup, but, as you can tell, a tie is not a valid outcome in a single-elimination tournament! In the League Cup, which I suspect this was, if the scores are equal after 90 minutes, you play another 30 minutes of "Extra Time". If the scores are still level, you get a penalty shootout.

    In the F.A. Cup, if the scores are level, you get a "replay" - another ninety minute match! - scheduled at the visiting team's stadium. If the scores are still level, you'll get the 30 minutes of Extra Time, and eventually you'll get to a penalty shootout.

    Each competition should have a "Competition Rules" page which explains these things to you. Its not going to do a perfect job - it assumes you pretty much know the rules and just need a reminder!

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    As for "How many players to pick", five is the basic number. If the penalty shootout is still level after five kicks each, however, it goes into a "single elimination" mode. In that, you must select a player who has not yet kicked, until you've gone through all eleven... (even the goalkeeper!)...

    ... and then you can start over.

    So was Worchester cheating? No. It sounds like they had had several players forced off - either red-carded, or injured. In that case, as soon as every player they have has taken one kick, they can start repeating.

  14. #14

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    3-2-5 as in 5 strikers?!

    That's not good, try going to the tactics forum and downloading some tactics to look at how they set their mentalities etc.

    That game of yours was probably a cup game, which is why it cannot end as a stalemate, therefore going into extra time (90-120min) and then finally penalty shoot-outs.

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    Those aren't the only Cup formats, by the way - some Cups do a home-and-home series, with the aggregate score between the two matches determining the outcome ... and some even have group stages, where you play a bit of a round-robin with the other teams, in the standard 3-pts-for-a-win, 1-pt-for-a-draw format. But I didn't want to get overwhelming with the explanation!

    However, the reason I brought it up is that I think the League Cup Semi-Final round does a two-legged, aggregate-score format.

    At any rate, you might be asking "How the **** am I supposed to know this?"

    So:

    For any competition, you can go to the competition page. For example, World | England | League Cup will tell you about the League Cup.

    You can find "Stages", Fixtures, the Schedule, even stats like who won last year or who leads the competition in goals scored this year.

    If you're on the Stages page, you should see a View drop-down, and you can see "View | Rules".

    For mine, I see the following:

    <pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
    Match Rules: No player restrictions
    Extra time played if scores are level after ninety minutes
    Penalty shoot-out if scores are still level
    5 subs named, maximum 3 used
    Winner Prize Money: 75,000
    Disciplinary Rules: One match ban for every five yellow cards
    One match ban for every red card
    Qualification: Winner qualifies for the Quarter Final</pre>

    (I'm looking at the rules for the Fourth Round)

    However, I didn't have to go that far to find out. If I just clicked on my team, Fixtures, and click (once) on the League Cup 4th Rnd match, I can see:

    [CODE]
    Date: Wednesday 9th November 2005 (Today)
    Venue: Goodison Park, Liverpool
    Rules: No player restrictions
    Extra time played if scores are level after 90 minutes
    Penalty shoot-out if scores are still level
    5 subs named, maximum 3 used
    Weather Forecast: Dry, 46F

  16. #16
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">originally posted by Jokerace:-

    I am using a 5-2-4 set up, mainly because when I was in in 4-4-2 we didn't score a goal in our first 6 games. We have now scored 22 goals in our last 12. (I guess more players up front with a chance to score helps ). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Has Jokerace's lack of existing expectations and methods due to him not only being new to football but also FM allowed him to see the game with a clarity an FM veteran can't?

    Personally I would never have gone to that formation but I can't argue with the results. To go from 0 in 6 to 22 in 12 ain't half bad.

    Welcome to the game and be prepared for moments of frustration, jubilation and everything in between. That's what I can look like in any given FM gaming session.

    Also you might want to sound proof the room where you play as this game can really suck you into the moment and you'll find yourself reacting in ways you didn't think were possible. Finally after these types of moments you may feel a strange feeling of shame and embarassment (often increased by family members/girlfriends/flatmates/friends looking at you like you have a serious mental deficiency) for becoming emotionally attached to a bunch of little dots. To counter this it can be helpful to come onto the forum just to remind yourself that you aren't the only lunatic in the FM asylum

  17. #17
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    something no one has asked yet is have you read the manuel that comes with the game that should help you understand most areas of the program

    Learning football is something else Watch a few matchs on the telly your soon get the idea

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    I'm truly amazed at the number of times this thread has come up on this forum as of late!

    On the bright side, at least people are learning the game from FM, and not FIFA 08!

  19. #19
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FelixX:
    something no one has asked yet is have you read the manuel that comes with the game that should help you understand most areas of the program

    Learning football is something else Watch a few matchs on the telly your soon get the idea </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I'd hazard a guess that, being an American player, he got the game via the WWSM download, which I don't believe comes with a manual.

  20. #20
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    Once again thank you all for your feedback.

    And yes it was a "cup" game. It was a Sentana Shield N 2nd round game. I didn't realize there was a difference in the games, I thought they were all league games (well after the friendlies).

    Yes I am using 5 Strikers/FC's. My team could NOT even sniff a goal before I tried that. And now we have gone on a 5 game streak with no losses (since my last post) we are 1-4 in our last 4 games. Including draws against the #3 and #5 teams in the north and a win against #10.


    I have tried to look for some threads about different "tactics" to download for somw reason i can't find them again now. However, I have MANY threads that said with lower teams you should just use the "generic" tactics and get the best players you can. Which I have been trying to do.


    Thank you Amaroq for that whole readout, it makes a LOT more sense now.


    Also I will now only pick 5 players ti use in a shoot-out.


    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by The Internet:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FelixX:
    something no one has asked yet is have you read the manuel that comes with the game that should help you understand most areas of the program

    Learning football is something else Watch a few matchs on the telly your soon get the idea </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I'd hazard a guess that, being an American player, he got the game via the WWSM download, which I don't believe comes with a manual. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Yes this game has NO manual. Which being totally new to soccer ...excuse me Football...makes it all the harder for me.

    I actually have watched some game son TV before (it has been about 2 years though) and honestly the announcers talk about the game as if you should already know what is going on. Then again I guess it si the same way for European's if they watch an NFL game.

    So really the only way I have to laern is by y'alls helpful replies, the other posts on this board, and any other helpful links I can find.

  21. #21
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    Dangit I need an edit button..

    The above post should read "we have gone 1-4-0 in our last 5 games Including draws against the #3 and #5 teams in the north and a win against #10."

  22. #22
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    Hey Joker....just a year ago I was in your same position - an american, with only basic football (soccer I know, but when in rome, do as the romans do) knowledge gleaned from my youth but extremely intrigued by the game. I need to warn you up front there is a HUGE learning curve associated to the game. However if you keep plugging away you will find a game that is an absolute blast to play. In fact this has game held my interest over 1 year span. That says something and my sometimes insatiable appetite for games.

    I am not even sure where to begin really so many small tips.

    First dont hesitate to ask questions here. The folks here are great and every little question that I asked seemed to get a reply from different sources. The folks here are truly a great resource. Sometimes I would think this has got to be a stupid question...however folks were patient and guided my learning along.

    Next...I am assuming you downloaded teh game and it is "world wide soccer manager 2008". There is a manual, it is in the program files. Hunt it down, print it up and read it. It actually has a lot of things that go with it.

    In terms of learning it really is a building process. One little bit of knowledge will build on to the next.

    In terms of tactics...experiment, experiment, experiment. Really that is the best way to do things. Also dont be afraid to restart a game and see how different tactics would work out. I actually did that a lot when I was first learning the game...and it actually helped a lot in terms of seeing cause and effect.

    When you do play, watch your games. See how the players react to your tactics. It might take a while for you to spot out how to create the effect you want...however, when you start watching the games you will notice little things. These can help evolve your tactics.

    Another thing to keep in mind is that your tactics are all dependent on each other. They all create a pull of some sort. Some things will work counter against another segment of your tactics. Be careful when doing this. For example....wide & passing...those things (most of the time) need to work with each other...you dont want to play a "wide" game...and have short passing...basically you are asking for trouble then. this of course you will learn in time. Bottom line there is a balance to be achieved in your tactics.

    One thing that helped me when I was starting out when looking for players was the determination value. To this day this is one of my prized stats that I look at. Basically a high value is someone who is driven to suceed, will try to better themselves via training, and most importantly will try hard on the field....even when they are down 3-0.

    Also for training schedules. Somewhere on these boards you can upload training schedules. Go ahead and do that. I would wait till you understand the game better before trying to create your own. I've only recently tried my hand at creating training schedules specifically for individual players. It's still in the experimenting stage, but I think am getting the hang of it.

    Hmm...cant think of any general tips to give. Just give it time. Try learning one segment of the game, and then another...it all builds on one another. Take your time with it. It truly is a great game to play.

    Cheers!

    PS - Amaroq thanks a ton for all your advice you gave me in the other thread....it proved invaluable...and of course the other posters. You folks helped enlighten me in terms of how to play.

  23. #23
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    newcastles I have looked for the manuals and there is NO USA/English one. There is only French and German languages manuals, neither language is one I can read.


    I do thank you for you response though and I will definitely look into the info you provded .


    But now I have one more question...


    In the English Sentanta Shield competition when do the rounds past round 4 show up? The reason I am curious is because this crappy Hyde tem I have actually made it to round 4 (beating Worchester in the 6-5 Penalty kick win in round 2, and then beating Nuneaton 3-0 in round 3). We then met up with Workington in round 4. We were up 3-0 at halftime, and had a 3-2 lead with 78 min to play. In the 83rd minute they tied the game at 3-3, and then in the 93rd min (with +4 bonus play time) they scored again and won 4-3. So I am wondering where they end up.

    The game still shows only the 4th round now with the game time at Dec 29th and the game took place on Dec 22nd. I am just wondering when the next round will be shown so I can see it, I figured the seedings for the next round would be set already.

  24. #24
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    Hmm. You should give this a little read too.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_football

  25. #25
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    Joker - look for an icon that looks like a calendar on the top horizontal bar. Around there you should be able to find it. Should have schedule of matches and also dates for when competition draws happen.

    Also - you did get the WWSM 08 right? I swear I found mind in there...let me look real quick...mine was here - C:\Program Files\Sports Interactive\Worldwide Soccer Manager 2008

    Also wanted to warn you...the AI will start figuring out your tactics around mid november early december. Around then you will have to reconfigure your tactics. Wont have to be drastic changes. Expect it. Start to figure out multiple tactics you can use.

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by newcastles:
    Joker - look for an icon that looks like a calendar on the top horizontal bar. Around there you should be able to find it. Should have schedule of matches and also dates for when competition draws happen.

    Also - you did get the WWSM 08 right? I swear I found mind in there...let me look real quick...mine was here - C:\Program Files\Sports Interactive\Worldwide Soccer Manager 2008

    Also wanted to warn you...the AI will start figuring out your tactics around mid november early december. Around then you will have to reconfigure your tactics. Wont have to be drastic changes. Expect it. Start to figure out multiple tactics you can use. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


    Hmmm..I actually have Football Manager 2008 not worldwide. So maybe that is why I don't have the English version of the manual. I can only find the German and French version in the game folder.


    Would love to know how I could find the English version though,

  27. #27
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    Then your manual came with in the disk case ...

    I was in the same boat when I started playing this game four years ago, and have gone from a non-fan of the sport to an active supporter of a RL team. FM taught me more about the game than I knew there was to learn.

    Starting with a lower-league side is like starting a first-person shooter on the hardest difficulty setting. There are no difficulty settings in FM (to the consternation of some ) -- they are built in. The bigger clubs, like ManU, Chelsea, Inter, Milan, Lyon, or Barcelona are the Easy setting. Hyde is the Hard. Lower clubs have a small reputation and not much money (thus having difficulty attracting quality players and staff), while established larger clubs can pretty much pick and choose. The offset is expectations. The big clubs are expected to win ... Also, if you start in the lowest league you have selected as playable, if you're relegated at the end of the season, you're fired. You have a little more leeway at the top.

    As a first-time starter, I'd recommend a mid-level top-flight team like Portsmith or Man City. Also, don't be afraid of other countries ... I've had a lot of fun in France ...

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SSGTroyer:
    Then your manual came with in the disk case ... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    No, there is the rub. I got the game disk from a friend who had the gaem and didn't like it. He had no idea where the manuals were/are. (he had no idea about soccer, a family member bought him the game, he tried it out and didn't like so I asked him for it)

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I was in the same boat when I started playing this game four years ago, and have gone from a non-fan of the sport to an active supporter of a RL team. FM taught me more about the game than I knew there was to learn.

    Starting with a lower-league side is like starting a first-person shooter on the hardest difficulty setting. There are no difficulty settings in FM (to the consternation of some ) -- they are built in. The bigger clubs, like ManU, Chelsea, Inter, Milan, Lyon, or Barcelona are the Easy setting. Hyde is the Hard. Lower clubs have a small reputation and not much money (thus having difficulty attracting quality players and staff), while established larger clubs can pretty much pick and choose. The offset is expectations. The big clubs are expected to win ... Also, if you start in the lowest league you have selected as playable, if you're relegated at the end of the season, you're fired. You have a little more leeway at the top.

    As a first-time starter, I'd recommend a mid-level top-flight team like Portsmith or Man City. Also, don't be afraid of other countries ... I've had a lot of fun in France ... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


    Well I want to at least finish out the season now with Hyde and see if maybe I can take a team that started out 0-6 (due to me having no idea of what to do) and not get them booted out of the league.

    If/when I get fired I will definitely look into starting over (now with more info and a (very) little more knowledge in the game) with a slightly higher level team.

    I definitely don't want to play with a HIGH level team as what I like in sports games over all is rebuilding a crappy team and make them winners.

    I might look at other countries. Honestly the only thing I know about soccer..excuse me..football at all in what I haev seen on TV (years ago) with English teams. So I don't know if using other countries would make the learning curve even harder or not.

  29. #29
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    What i did when i first started out was that I looked at each of the teams. I got a sense of who their players were and their financial stability. My search let me to start up my game with West Brom. I actually had a good deal of fun with em. They are a championship league team (english division). I thought their finances were ok, and their staff while not great, were definitely capable of dealing with all of my blunders. They werent premiere league, but I figured it would be an interesting challenge to achieve promotion. The cool thing about this game is that you set your own benchmarks, your own goals. It really is a fun little sandbox to play in.

    In 2008 I took Accrington Stanley (LL2) and have been able to transform them into a significant force. Am right now in the race for promotion to the premiere league. It's actually taken me quite a few seasons to reach this. I basically would not be able to if I hadnt taken a more powerful team and learned the ropes of the game.

    I am sure you are not wanting to start over, but I would. Pick a team you think will fit your needs. Look at the information page of the team and check out their finances (ok, secure, instable), what the media predicts them to place. That should give a basic idea of the team. Then if you find one that catches your eye...look at their players. At some point you will reach a comfort level and scratch that itch to rebuild a truly low team. That's when the game will get you...scouting out new players, finding that gem, and watching that player blossom.

  30. #30
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    Yeah I think when you are new to the game itself, the English league is a good place to start, a team with not much expectation, a bit of money and a half decent team will be ideal. Starting at the bottom, that is a bit hardcore

    It's good that you are completing your first season though, I always find when playing leagues you are not used to that you learn more during the end of the season and off season, may I suggest you go through every competition in every round, (European included) and check the rules, end tables, structure trees, european qualifiers and everything else, especially the end of season summary. - you will have a much better overview of how the English league is structured after you see a full season summary played out.

    just wait till you are good enough to go continental and play against the best in Europe then you have even more fun!

  31. #31
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    Joker, is the e-mail in your profile correct?

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Well I want to at least finish out the season now with Hyde and see if maybe I can take a team that started out 0-6 (due to me having no idea of what to do) and not get them booted out of the league.

    If/when I get fired ... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
    That's the spirit! I love both the determination to save the club and the acknowledgment that it may not be enough to save your job - with that attitude you're really going to enjoy the game.

    Note that there isn't going to be a "Game Over" screen if you get fired. You'll be able to go put your name in the queue for future jobs, and you can even set the game to "Go on Holiday" which will simulate happily along without requiring input until somebody offers you a job. (Hint: that may not happen immediately, so I suggest setting it up to run and then going to sleep. Find out where you'll be working in the morning. )

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I will definitely look into starting over (now with more info and a (very) little more knowledge in the game) with a slightly higher level team.

    I definitely don't want to play with a HIGH level team as what I like in sports games over all is rebuilding a crappy team and make them winners. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
    Football gives you the chance to do that more than any other sport!

    At the end of the season, the top 3 teams from League Two 'promote' to League One, and the 3 worst finishers in League One get 'relegated' to League Two ... and that replicates itself all the way up and down the "football pyramid".

    So you really can start out with a club that's got a 1000-seat stadium, and build them into a European superpower drawing in many thousands more.

    Of course, this game is a simulation, and its going to include a simulation of all the factors that have prevented the club from doing that yet: cruddy facilities, abysmal coaches, ****-poor players with day jobs, a small catchment area (regional fan base), a crushing debt, and a chairman with less business sense than the local cow - who you're all too familiar with because you have to shoo her off the training pitch each evening before the players arrive.

    But its the most fun thing!

    I think one of my best games was as York City (Blue Square), with such crushing debt that we were losing money every year, and every year I had to sell my best players to make ends meet. I couldn't make it out of the mid-table .. and was having a blast!

    If you're enjoying the level that you're at, and the funding that you have available, I'd say stay in that general area for your next game. If nothing else, the AI opponents at lower levels aren't as good as the AI opponents at the higest levels.

    If you decide you want an "medium" difficulty game, but still want to enjoy the "rebuilding" process, there are a couple of English teams that are considered "Fallen Giants", clubs that used to be European powers but have fallen upon truly hard times. Leeds United and Nottingham Forest are the two classic examples. Leeds IRL has been losing money hand-over-fist and has gone into administration, so they've been docked 15 points in the league table, which makes them a real challenge. However, if you can right the finances and get things turned around, both Leeds and Forest have the potential to turn into tremendous powers.

    If you really want an "easy" game, I'd recommend getting out of England. Scotland is similar, and there are only two (real) contenders for the title: playing either Celtic or Rangers, you ought to be able to come in second. I had a ton of fun playing as Ajax (Amsterdam, Holland); again, a club good enough for its league standard that challenging for a top spot wasn't my issue.

    What else?

    Oh! Did you see that the 8.0.2 Patch is out? Stickied at the top of the forum, and make sure to download the right one - WWSM PC (Boxed) if I'm reading your story correctly. You can install it in the middle of a save-game.

  32. #32
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    Wow! once again some great info guys thanks!

    Amaroq, no that isn't my correct e-mail. However, if you can tell me how to send a PM on the board, I can't seem to find away. I can get you my correct e-mail.


    As far as moving teams and all goes, you guys have given some interesting teams/leauges to look at if/when I decide to start over again after learning more with this Hyde team.

    For now though the team has played 8 more games in this season and are still in 19th place with a 6-10-15 record, so for the moement we are holding off elimination. Our scoring has continued to improve though as we have put in 17 goals in those 8 games, it is just that our opposition gets in more than the (bit over) 2 goals avg we have,

    I am starting to get a feel for the players who I like now, and am even considering trying to keep som eof the older guys I have (2 players over 32 yrs old) and if I can keep us out of getting moved down a league (and keep my job). I might even give this Hyde team a try at a second season and see if I can build up a team around these 2 proven vets.

    Both are ST's, 1) is leading the team (and league) with 16 goals, (after not scoring in the first 10 games of the season). 2) Id the older of the two at 33, but he has put in 12 goals and also has 17 assists so far this season.


    By BIGGEST weakness still seems to be a GK. I have been using a kid that was sent to me on loan from Chelseas (I got them as a parent club. Was an idea given to me by a poster who originally got me into looking at this game with his dynasty thread) who seems like he would be good. He has some nice abilities, but as I said he gives up a bit of goals also. I am hoping he can "grow" into the position more as he is only 20 years old.

    Defensively I have 2 players who could make something of themselves (both under 23), but they need to improve through the rest of the season. If not my other big problem if/when next season comes along is going to be trying to find 3 decent-good defenders to play.



    Then again everything I typed above might not even be correct or the "right way" to run a team. It is just what I think I see with my limited knowledge.


    Also my biggest problem, with the game, is still signing players. I have a scout who continues to show me players that (honestly) suck. He thinks they might grow into players, but right know this team doesn't have the time to give them (if we want to avoid getting kicked down), nor the $$ to give them the time to grow. I can't seem to get any "free" players or even good players at a decent price.


    Oh and what does the 8.0.2 patch add to the game? Also I am not sure the exact game I have, it just says Football Manager /08 on the disc and when I load up the game. I don't have the box or manual. As I said my friend has no idea where any of that stuff is, he doesn't keep any of that for his games, he just puts all the CD's in big CD holders.


    Well anayways that's enough typing for now...thanks again for all the great feedback and info guys!

  33. #33
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    Welp, my Hyde dynasty is now toast. After not being able to figure out which game version I really had (since my friend had no idea where the box or manual was) I uninstalled that version and just bought the WWSM '08 version of the game of the website. So now I will be able to get the 8.0.2 patch since I know the version I have. Also I should have the English language manual in my game folder now.

    So once the download is finished my only decision is which team to use now.

  34. #34
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    York City!



    Wikipedia can be fun for finding the history of a club, honestly. (York, for example, are one of the few clubs owned by a Supporters' Trust, rather than a greedy chairman.. )

    The e-mail point isn't relevant if you've bought the game; I was going to offer my manual if it would help.

    As for age-of-players, obviously, if you can get a young player who is going to go on to Premier League quality, that's great .. but the game does a pretty good job of modeling a couple other factors:
    - young players tend to be less Consistent than older players
    . (That's a hidden attribute, e.g., one the game doesn't display to us.)
    - older players tend to be more resistant to the effects of losses upon Morale
    - proven veterans are less susceptible to intimidation / getting rattled during a match
    - older players are more injury prone

    So what you may find is that a young player with better visible attributes doesn't perform as well for you week-in, week-out, as a veteran with worse visible attributes. I'm a firm believer in trusting the "elder" guys, especially for intimidating encounters, must-win matches, and games following a loss.

    Goalkeeper is, in my opinion, the key position on the pitch. Maybe that's 'cause I used to play keeper. Seriously, though, he's your last line of defense, he's got to be somebody that you trust. A youngster with great Reflexes and Handling is going to make some awesome saves... but if he doesn't have good Communication, Decisions, Positioning, Concentration, Command of Area, etc.. you're going to see him make some howlers, too.

    (If you enjoy screaming at the screen saying "What the (*@#( does he think he's doing?!?", a goalkeeper with 20 Eccentricity will give you heart palpitations.)

    Obviously, I'm recommending a veteran - and IRL goalkeepers tend to peak later than their outfield counterparts. A 36-year-old GK is perfectly reasonable; I'd be worried about his pace and stamina if he were a winger.

    Defense, pretty important, too. The average game sees about 1.5 goals per team, as a ballpark, so as you've indicated, your attacking formation has pushed your personal average up to about 2.0 goals per team. Personally, my approach is so defense-minded that we come out with less than 1.5 goals per team - your 3-2-5 is pretty heretical in my mind!

    As far as the dynasty being toast - I think you should be able to continue your Hyde save-game, unless you deleted it when you deleted the game. But you've learned a bit, too, and you may be better off starting anew anyways.

    Which team did you choose?

  35. #35
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Amaroq:
    York City!



    Wikipedia can be fun for finding the history of a club, honestly. (York, for example, are one of the few clubs owned by a Supporters' Trust, rather than a greedy chairman.. )

    The e-mail point isn't relevant if you've bought the game; I was going to offer my manual if it would help. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Oh well thanks for the offer though. Also I was sick of trying to figure otu which game it really was, and figured it would be best just to buy the game of the website so I could get updates, the manual, and such.


    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Amaroq:
    As for age-of-players, obviously, if you can get a young player who is going to go on to Premier League quality, that's great .. but the game does a pretty good job of modeling a couple other factors:
    - young players tend to be less Consistent than older players
    . (That's a hidden attribute, e.g., one the game doesn't display to us.)
    - older players tend to be more resistant to the effects of losses upon Morale
    - proven veterans are less susceptible to intimidation / getting rattled during a match
    - older players are more injury prone

    So what you may find is that a young player with better visible attributes doesn't perform as well for you week-in, week-out, as a veteran with worse visible attributes. I'm a firm believer in trusting the "elder" guys, especially for intimidating encounters, must-win matches, and games following a loss.

    Goalkeeper is, in my opinion, the key position on the pitch. Maybe that's 'cause I used to play keeper. Seriously, though, he's your last line of defense, he's got to be somebody that you trust. A youngster with great Reflexes and Handling is going to make some awesome saves... but if he doesn't have good Communication, Decisions, Positioning, Concentration, Command of Area, etc.. you're going to see him make some howlers, too.

    (If you enjoy screaming at the screen saying "What the (*@#( does he think he's doing?!?", a goalkeeper with 20 Eccentricity will give you heart palpitations.)

    Obviously, I'm recommending a veteran - and IRL goalkeepers tend to peak later than their outfield counterparts. A 36-year-old GK is perfectly reasonable; I'd be worried about his pace and stamina if he were a winger.

    Defense, pretty important, too. The average game sees about 1.5 goals per team, as a ballpark, so as you've indicated, your attacking formation has pushed your personal average up to about 2.0 goals per team. Personally, my approach is so defense-minded that we come out with less than 1.5 goals per team - your 3-2-5 is pretty heretical in my mind! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Yeh I was using a young goalkeeper that was loaned to me from a better club (I asked the board for a parent club in that Hyde dynasty). They sent a (what looked like) VERY talented GK, but he was letting in an avg of 3-4 goals a game. Now that also might be because I didn't have a good setting for my defense.


    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Amaroq: As far as the dynasty being toast - I think you should be able to continue your Hyde save-game, unless you deleted it when you deleted the game. But you've learned a bit, too, and you may be better off starting anew anyways. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Yeah I deleted EVERYTHING that had anything to do with the game before installing the new one. So my Hyde dynasty was gone. Then again though I would rather have a "clean" install of the new game


    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Amaroq:Which team did you choose? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


    Right now I started with Oxford (a bit higher then athe teams I was using before, but not the top of the line either). We are 1-1-3 in our first 5 games and in 19th place. That is after being considered a team to be promoted and starting at #9 in the league. So I think I am not doing so well.


    I went away from my 5 ST's though (I would really like to now why everyone thinks that is "heretical" though). I mean in my thinking and maybe that is due to my American football state of mind, it would seem that the more offensive people you haev on the field the more chances for goads you get.

    Ok so what I am suing now is this I downloaded the tactics that www2 put up for this set up. It seems closer to anything I would use as it has 3 attackers. (hopefully the site lets me us the img tags to show it. If not well here is his thread http://community.sigames.com/eve/for...7/m/9242086773. (hopefully that works at least.


    However now with your recommendation of York City. I think I am going to save my game and try out that team.



    As always thanks for the input nad info bro.

  36. #36
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    Oh....Another "Newb' question...

    I haven't gotten a chance to print out the manual yet (because my home printer died so I have to wait till I get to work tomorrow)

    When I am playing a game there is a button for "save". I would assume that is for goals and such. But it is always grayed out. How do I save goals and game footage then?

  37. #37
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I went away from my 5 ST's though (I would really like to now why everyone thinks that is "heretical" though). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
    I'm not a football tactics historian by any means, but in the early days of the game, defensive football was little known, and teams did play with formations like the 2-3-5.

    In the modern game, however, the emphasis has shifted towards defense: a nil-nil draw still gets you a share of the points, you can't lose if the other team never scores .. and of course, the importance of not allowing an "away goal" in Cup competitions which utilize "away goals" as a tiebreaker for home-and-home elimination rounds. Consequently, the 4-4-2 has become the most prevalent formation, with variations like 4-5-1, 4-3-3, 5-3-2, or 3-5-2 .. which are all, you will notice, exactly one player moved by one position from the 4-4-2.

    So, the 2-3-5, with so many fewer defenders, is a throwback to .. well, the late 1800's. And "radically" different from what the average team is playing today.

    Wikipedia: Formation (Association Football)

    That's not to say its a bad thing - obviously
    - if its working for you its working for you
    - the goal of the game IS to score more than your opponent
    - if you go .500, winning half your games (3 pts) and losing half (0 pts), you're averaging better than a team that gets a 0-0 draw in every match (2 pts per 2 matches).

    It may also be an area where knowing too much about the real-life sport prevents somebody from trying a "radical" approach which performs well in the FM match engine.

    But its still heresy! (j/k)

  38. #38
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Amaroq:
    So, the 2-3-5, with so many fewer defenders, is a throwback to .. well, the late 1800's. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Or Kevin Keegan's Newcastle in the mid 90's?

    Okay, maybe it just seemed like 2-3-5. :-p

  39. #39
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Amaroq:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I went away from my 5 ST's though (I would really like to now why everyone thinks that is "heretical" though). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
    I'm not a football tactics historian by any means, but in the early days of the game, defensive football was little known, and teams did play with formations like the 2-3-5.

    In the modern game, however, the emphasis has shifted towards defense: a nil-nil draw still gets you a share of the points, you can't lose if the other team never scores .. and of course, the importance of not allowing an "away goal" in Cup competitions which utilize "away goals" as a tiebreaker for home-and-home elimination rounds. Consequently, the 4-4-2 has become the most prevalent formation, with variations like 4-5-1, 4-3-3, 5-3-2, or 3-5-2 .. which are all, you will notice, exactly one player moved by one position from the 4-4-2.

    So, the 2-3-5, with so many fewer defenders, is a throwback to .. well, the late 1800's. And "radically" different from what the average team is playing today.

    Wikipedia: Formation (Association Football)

    That's not to say its a bad thing - obviously
    - if its working for you its working for you
    - the goal of the game IS to score more than your opponent
    - if you go .500, winning half your games (3 pts) and losing half (0 pts), you're averaging better than a team that gets a 0-0 draw in every match (2 pts per 2 matches).

    It may also be an area where knowing too much about the real-life sport prevents somebody from trying a "radical" approach which performs well in the FM match engine.

    But its still heresy! (j/k) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Well you will be happy to know that I started up a new York dynasty and am using a "traditional" format. I am using the set up that I linked in my previous post.

    the only changes I made so far to the team was signing (30yr old GK John Connelly (per your advice to use a vet over a young player). To be the starting goalie over 17yr old Josh Mimm. Mimms has a bit better ratings overall, but if your idea of Vets playing w/o much fear works then the (slight) difference in the ratings should work in Connelly's favor.

    BTW I payed @1K to get Connelly from Clifton and he has a $275 p/w contract.


    So far in our first 3 friendlies we have gone 2-1. We beat Rochdale 1-0, Lost to West Ham reserves 0-2, and beat Lewes 6-0.

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jokerace:
    2 games were against my own U18s team , which I am guessing should be easy wins, and I lost 0-6 & 0-5. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Thank God I am not the only one this happens to. I also lose to my 18's like 3-1 etc. (but their all grey). I like to use that as my excuse anyway. This game is not as "pick up and play" like some other games in the CM/FM series. And you just have to keep trying, hopefully you will get used to it soon.

  41. #41
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    OK question time again.

    I am still using York, finished in 11th place in league in my first season. However did well in one of the tournaments (forget which now) so the board didn't fire me.

    In the 2nd season I got NO transfer $$ from the baord so I traded off a bunch of players for $$ and then brought in some new player ( a few elder players to add some knowledge to the team.

    Anyways the problem I am having is that we are scoring goals, but then in te 2nd half we are losing.

    Game 1...We led 3-0 at the end of the first half, and then lost 5-3.

    Game 3... We led 4-0 at the end of the first half, but then lost 6-5.

    I am using the 3-4-1-2 (tweaked) tactic in this thread http://community.sigames.com/eve/for...7/m/3232096183 . and we are socring. But I have NO idea why we are giving up so many goals in the second half after getting a nice lead.


    Obviously I am missing something about the tactics and subtleties of football, please help.

  42. #42
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    Tactical Guide

    Surprised Amaroq hasn't linked you to it already.

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    Dont worry mate, football is my oxygen but I cant play this game to save my life! so youre not alone

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    That's a good link, wwfan, but I didn't want to scare a beginner off with too much information!

    (Actually, I'd not seen that you'd posted an FM'08 version of this yet. )

    Jokerace, historically, since about FM'05?, wwfan's been writing some tremendous articles in the Tactics and Training Tips forum.

    He's very much the man I would rely on for tactical advice, if I were struggling with anything. I highly recommend reading what he's linked - and then re-reading it again in a month or so, and probably yet again in three months: you'll get very different things from the same material, depending on your level of understanding of the game.

    At any rate, a real manager, at halftime with a three goal lead, would probably switch out of a 3-defender formation. Personally, I'd go to something like a 4-5-1 to throttle off the midfield and kill off the game. Whether you would want to adopt a purely defensive stance, or something more in the "defend then hit them on the counter attack" genre is really down to personal preference.

    If you're not changing things around depending on the situation, I'd say that's your biggest problem.

    The other possibility is that your team are really just letting the foot off the gas: this might be the case if you give them too much effusive praise after getting a big half-time lead. The job's not done yet, you don't want to let them think it is!

    Communication and Psychological Warfare is a great resource for understanding the psychological side of the game.

    Keep in mind that, while losing 3-0, the opposition manager is going to tear them up at halftime: they'll come out fired up and looking for a quick goal. If they can get that, they tend to "have belief" that they can retrieve the game.. so I find it useful to kill off the first fifteen minutes of the second half if I suspect that's coming. Their emotional high can burn itself out.

    Wolfsont's guide to team talks - Fm08 is also a good guide to team talks. If you're getting results like that, I'd say either you're giving the wrong impression from your team talks, or you're entrusting it to your assistant, and he's misguided.

    Good luck sorting it out - if you can give a bit more detail relevant to the points raised, that might help us help you.

  45. #45
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    Beg pardon - the credit on that last link should be "Wolfsong's", not Wolfsont's.

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