[FM10] Crouchy's Calcio Journeyman Save

[crouchaldinho]

17 November 2017 - The Dilemma!

I'm calling on the good people of FMCU to help me in a massive career decision:




First things first, below you can find the table and see the situation we find ourselves in, along with the current position of Lazio in the league:

| Pos   | Inf   | Team        |       | Pld   | Won   | Drn   | Lst   | For   | Ag    | G.D.  | Pts   | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 14th  |       | Livorno     |       | 13    | 3     | 5     | 5     | 8     | 17    | -9    | 14    | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 15th  |       | Empoli      |       | 13    | 3     | 4     | 6     | 11    | 15    | -4    | 13    | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 16th  |       | Verona      |       | 13    | 2     | 5     | 6     | 12    | 19    | -7    | 11    | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 17th  |       | Reggina     |       | 13    | 2     | 3     | 8     | 7     | 19    | -12   | 9     | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 18th  |       | Lazio       |       | 13    | 2     | 2     | 9     | 8     | 18    | -10   | 8     | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 19th  |       | Mantova     |       | 13    | 1     | 4     | 8     | 8     | 28    | -20   | 7     | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 20th  |       | Parma       |       | 13    | 1     | 3     | 9     | 10    | 29    | -19   | 6     | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

We're struggling along, picking up the odd draw and very occasional win. I feel we're doing okay, although we have dropped points to Mantova and Livorno, which is not good. However, we have beaten Parma and Lazio. In general, I'm feeling fairly happy with how things are going and I do think we can do enough to stay up, although it's going to be very tough and there is no way it's going to be an easy ride.

Then, suddenly, Lazio sack their manager and ask me if I want the job. Now, here comes the dilemma: this looks like a huge opportunity for me to move onwards and upwards in my managerial career but, at the same time, I love Hellas Verona and feel an emotional attachment to them.

On the pros side, just look at that transfer budget! Looking at their squad, I can see there is enough talent there already for me to get them out of trouble, and if I can spend the transfer budget, it means that I can do some good business in January and have a great chance of pushing them back up the table. With the transfer money, I could also bring my favourites like Davide Vangi and Luca Ricci with me to the capital. This is an opportunity to move to the capital, take over one of the biggest clubs in Italy, spend some money and push them on. In the longer term, a push for Europe would be realistic and this could lead to bigger things for me. This could be a great stepping stone on to an even bigger club. A couple of decent finishes with Lazio could see the offers come in from a Champions League outfit; a place where I could challenge for titles and trophies at the very top of the game!

On the cons side, I would always have to wonder what could have been with Verona. My emotional attachment is very strong and I'll feel sad to leave. But I have to ask the question: what can Verona do for my managerial career? At the moment, not enough is probably the answer. Progress is going to be slow, there isn't a lot of money to spend and I could end up fighting for survival or heading towards mid-table mediocrity for quite a few more seasons to come. Maybe I have used Hellas Verona for as much as I can get right now. Verona would always be in my heart but I must be ruthless and think only of my managerial career!

Tough one, isn't it? So, people of FMCU, your advice would be appreciated!

[Flamers]

I would go for Lazio if it was me. It might be good fun to resurrect a fallen giant!

[Wavelberry]

Hmmm, it's a real tough one. I'd be tempted to stick with Verona, however, with that transfer budget and the players you could steal...

It's a journeyman save. I'd move.

[SazoJohnno]

I think you should go with Lazio, like you said, you did all you can with Verona, maybe it's time for you to go to Lazio. I always seen Lazio as a team with potential to be great in Italy league.

[crouchaldinho]

Thank you

Will be interesting to see how your 4-4-2 performs in Italy.

Well, it did extremely well in Serie B. In Serie A, I have come up against sides playing narrowly and between the lines, but so far, it has performed fairly well and pretty much as I expected.

Just downloaded this now. Looks an interesting publication so will read further if I get a chance tonight. Cheers for the tip-off!

Yes, it's pretty good. A bit hit and miss maybe but it's definitely worth it when you get an article that you class as a 'hit' (e.g. the Verona one!)

Solid looking team. Serie A survival hopefully and a continuation of Vangi's brilliance.

I was pinning my hopes on Vangi and Ricci before the season started. If I head to the capital to take the Lazio job, I'd have to take both of them there.

The Blizzard is a quality read. Some excellent writers Wilson's got together there.

Yes, I like quite a few of them too.

[crouchaldinho]

I would go for Lazio if it was me. It might be good fun to resurrect a fallen giant!

Are they a fallen giant? Would you call them that? I think they have only won a couple of Serie A titles and a Cup Winners Cup.

Apparently they are the sixth most supported team in Italy but only the second in Rome.

I thought I would be heading to the other Rome club, to be honest, if I did head to the capital.

Hmmm, it's a real tough one. I'd be tempted to stick with Verona, however, with that transfer budget and the players you could steal...

It's a journeyman save. I'd move.

Yeah, Wavelberry pretty much summing it up for me here!

[crouchaldinho]

I think you should go with Lazio, like you said, you did all you can with Verona, maybe it's time for you to go to Lazio. I always seen Lazio as a team with potential to be great in Italy league.

Could be right SazoJohnno.

One advantage I have is that , according to my rivals screen, Hellas Verona fans don't hate Lazio. They seem to hate pretty much every other club in Italy though.

[crouchaldinho]

I'm trying to get into Lazio. I need to find love at the clubs I manage. Once I take over as manager, I become like a supporter, and I learn to love the club. Thus, I've been researching Lazio and trying to find things to love about them.

Lazio's colours of white and sky blue were inspired by the national emblem of Greece, due to the fact that Lazio is a mixed sports club this was chosen in recognition of the fact that the Ancient Olympic Games and along with it the sporting tradition in Europe is linked to Greece.

Lazio's traditional club badge and symbol is the eagle, which was chosen by founding member Luigi Bigiarelli. It is an acknowledgment to the emblem of the Hellenic Zeus (the god of sky and thunder in Greek mythology) commonly known as the Aquila; Lazio's use of the symbol has led to two of their nicknames; le Aquile (the Eagles) and Aquilotti (Young Eagles).

I love Greek mythology and so this is right up my street.

[crouchaldinho]

Also:

The [Lazio] ultras have friendly relationships with Inter, Triestina and Hellas Verona

Which means that the Verona fans won't hate me for moving to Lazio.

[crouchaldinho]

My time at Verona has influenced me greatly and I think that I would refuse to move to their major rivals now (e.g. teams like Vicenza, Brescia and Atalanta, Juventus, A.C. Milan, Inter, AS Roma etc.)

But I would definitely like to manage at some of their 'friendship clubs' like Fiorentina, Lazio, Sampdoria. Abroad, this list includes Chelsea and Real Madrid, should I ever wish to visit England or Spain.

[Flamers]

Are they a fallen giant? Would you call them that? I think they have only won a couple of Serie A titles and a Cup Winners Cup.

I meant a club in 18th that should be top 5, fallen giant

[Romanista1994]

Don't go Lazio. Nothing to love about them, infact nothing to even like about them.

No bias I assure you.

[crouchaldinho]

I do love the idea of following in the footsteps of Sven-Göran Eriksson and trying to rebuild this club to the level it was at when he was there.

Then there is the Gazza link.

[Romanista1994]

I do love the idea of following in the footsteps of Sven-Göran Eriksson and trying to rebuild this club to the level it was at when he was there.

Then there is the Gazza link.

Your soul is becoming corrupted.

[crouchaldinho]

Don't go Lazio. Nothing to love about them, infact nothing to even like about them.

No bias I assure you.

Oh no! Will I lose one of my readers if I go to Lazio?

What about if it is just a stepping stone and I ditch them at some point in the future and move to Roma instead!

Are you Italian Romantista? Can you tell me about the traditional fans for Lazio and Roma in the city of Rome? I get the impression from my reading that the middle classes have historically followed Lazio, while the working classes are more likely to be Roma fans. Is that right roughly speaking or is it quite misleading to make this kind of statement?

[crouchaldinho]

Your soul is becoming corrupted.

Ha, maybe so! I haven't accepted the job just yet.

[rancer890]

Ha, maybe so! I haven't accepted the job just yet.

Crouchy I thought you were English!!! Bad error there, and worse getting someone who's first language isn't English to correct you.

Looks like you're going to manage Lazio now.

[Bedford Bulldog]

Crouchy

The way I see it is - Are you man who follows his heart or his head?

If you follow your head, it's no contest - move to Lazio.

If you follow your heart - then it has to be Verona.

To me, football is all about emotion, so I know my choice would be to stay.

[Flamers]

Crouchy just got told.... :P

[Romanista1994]

Oh no! Will I lose one of my readers if I go to Lazio?

What about if it is just a stepping stone and I ditch them at some point in the future and move to Roma instead!

Are you Italian Romantista? Can you tell me about the traditional fans for Lazio and Roma in the city of Rome? I get the impression from my reading that the middle classes have historically followed Lazio, while the working classes are more likely to be Roma fans. Is that right roughly speaking or is it quite misleading to make this kind of statement?

Half Italian (family mainly based in Rome, while I'm in Luxembourg) and the family has four-generations of Roma fans.

Lazio fans are outnumbered 3-1 in Rome by Roma fans and are widely considered to be the "burini", or farmers from outside the Roman walls. Lazio are also well known for their Fascist following and numerous players of theirs have publicly given the Fascist salute.
They also have a tradition of being involved in every negative incident in Italian football (betting scandals, Calciopoli, etc.).

You can't really expect me to approve of such a move, but there has been a precedent in Zdenek Zeman who became Roma favourite.

(Oh, and Bedford Bulldog really means are you a man who follows his purse or his heart!)

[crouchaldinho]

Crouchy I thought you were English!!! Bad error there, and worse getting someone who's first language isn't English to correct you.

What error?

Strange one that. I thought 'accepted' but typed 'excepted' for some reason.

The weird thing is that I even sat here for ages trying to work out what you were on about, re-reading my sentence as 'accepted'.

Dyslexia maybe? Or perhaps I have been living in Italy for too long. Nah, I think just tiredness and not concentrating properly.

[Gundo]

It's not an easy one is it? Think I'd stay with Verona to be honest but despite all other peoples opinions only you will know what is the right choice...

[crouchaldinho]

Crouchy

The way I see it is - Are you man who follows his heart or his head?

If you follow your head, it's no contest - move to Lazio.

If you follow your heart - then it has to be Verona.

To me, football is all about emotion, so I know my choice would be to stay.

I'm an emotional man, definitely. This is a journeyman save though and therefore I have to make a decision with my head for the good of my career, surely!

[crouchaldinho]

Half Italian (family mainly based in Rome, while I'm in Luxembourg) and the family has four-generations of Roma fans.

Lazio fans are outnumbered 3-1 in Rome by Roma fans and are widely considered to be the "burini", or farmers from outside the Roman walls. Lazio are also well known for their Fascist following and numerous players of theirs have publicly given the Fascist salute.
They also have a tradition of being involved in every negative incident in Italian football (betting scandals, Calciopoli, etc.).

You can't really expect me to approve of such a move, but there has been a precedent in Zdenek Zeman who became Roma favourite.

(Oh, and Bedford Bulldog really means are you a man who follows his purse or his heart!)

Well, I definitely wouldn't be doing it for money. I'd be doing it for footballing reasons!

You're making this difficult for me Romanista! I have always sympathised with Roma rather than Lazio in real life, which has made this even more difficult.

[crouchaldinho]

It's not an easy one is it? Think I'd stay with Verona to be honest but despite all other peoples opinions only you will know what is the right choice...

It's a really tough one Gundo.

You, Bedford Bulldog and Romanista are making me think the opposite now. How can I leave Verona like this with them still struggling to survive? I would most likely steal two or three of their best players and then ruin their chance of staying up. Also, Lazio isn't the 'perfect' move exactly.

Maybe I should stay with Verona and wait for a better time and a better move.

[crouchaldinho]

How can FM do this to me? I'm pacing up and down trying to make a decision as if this was a real life career move.

I think my instinct now is that the timing is wrong and the club is wrong. Still not sure though.

Ah, away to do something else like read a book for a few hours. I have some thinking to do guys!

[rancer890]

What error?

Strange one that. I thought 'accepted' but typed 'excepted' for some reason.

The weird thing is that I even sat here for ages trying to work out what you were on about, re-reading my sentence as 'accepted'.

Dyslexia maybe? Nah, I think just tiredness and not concentrating properly.

It's alright mate. I write a lot of stuff (blogs, scripts, stories..), and half the time I don't make sense. I like writing despite the fact I have terrible English vocab, and I prefer talking in my own language than English.

Just go Crouchy. Go for a new challenge. Following your heart doesn't mean you have to stay at your current club forever. Even I rejected TFC in games before (although the unplayability of MLS had something to do with my decision hehe), and other favoured clubs, because a journeyman game is about going around to different clubs, learning about new experiences, making new friends (and sometimes enemies ). So gogogogo!

But you think you can still progress, maybe win a Serie A title, maybe win Champions League title with Verona soon, then stay.

[crouchaldinho]

It's alright mate. I write a lot of stuff (blogs, scripts, stories..), and half the time I don't make sense. I like writing despite the fact I have terrible English vocab, and I prefer talking in my own language than English.

It just goes to show that even the best of us can make mistakes.

Just go Crouchy. Go for a new challenge. Following your heart doesn't mean you have to stay at your current club forever. Even I rejected TFC in games before (although the unplayability of MLS had something to do with my decision hehe), and other favoured clubs, because a journeyman game is about going around to different clubs, learning about new experiences, making new friends (and sometimes enemies ). So gogogogo!

But you think you can still progress, maybe win a Serie A title, maybe win Champions League title with Verona soon, then stay.

Hmmmmmn.

[crouchaldinho]

Ah, sod it, I'm staying with Verona.

The timing wasn't right and the club wasn't right. The only thing that was right was the transfer budget!

I can't leave now, not like this, and not to a club that I don't even really care about.

I have to learn to love the clubs I manage in some way; to become a supporter of them whilst managing them. I can't find much to make me love Lazio. I don't even like basic things like the colours they play in.

If it was Fiorentina, for instance, then maybe I could find plenty to love, but not Lazio. Sorry any Lazio fans but that's the way it is.

If I go to the capital, it will have to be as Roma manager. I bet Romanista1994 will be proud. I have seen the dark side and come unto the light, or words to that effect.

Now to continue saving Verona from relegation back to Serie B!

[AcidBurn]

Bit off topic but do you not really like FM11?

[Gundo]

Super stuff.

[crouchaldinho]

Bit off topic but do you not really like FM11?

To be honest, I'm not a fan AB.

I mean, the main reason I'm still playing 10 is just how much fun I'm still having with it and the fact that it runs well on my laptop, plus I have it all set up how I want it with customised views etc.

The things I don't really like about FM11 are really the match preparation and the agents. I just found both not well thought out, irritating and annoying. They don't add anything to my experience so it hasn't made me drop my FM10 saves to play FM11.

The thing that really annoyed me about FM11 though was that there was no real innovation or change in the core areas of the game and the areas that I love most of all. The tactics creator hasn't changed and I wanted new roles, settings and even the ability for customisation! Then there was training, which I feel needs an overhaul, and the match preparation thing just feels and looks clumsy to me; that and it contradicts other parts of the game! If FM11 had these kind of things then I would have jumped at the chance to start a new save. As it is, FM11 just felt like more guff that I didn't need (e.g. match preparation, 3D, agents etc.)!

It's also a personal choice to do with where I am in my life right now. I spend a lot of time playing FM, admittedly, but that time is becoming more restricted of late and I don't feel like I have the energy or the time to start playing around with a new FM. I'm safe and happy with FM10; I have it customised to my needs, I have foundation tactics set up, I have my training schedules done etc., and thus it is accessible and easy to get into and to enjoy a game. On top of this, my old laptop is struggling more and more with the newer games and I don't have the spare cash to replace her (yes, of course she is a woman! ) right now. I know she runs FM10 well enough and that'll do for now.

So that, in a very long-winded and round about way, is my take on it all. The short version is that FM11 just hasn't captured my imagination and I'm happily still playing FM10.

It's just my opinion of course and not meant to offend anyone who is enjoying the new game.

[crouchaldinho]

Super stuff.

Cheers Gundo.

[Romanista1994]

Ah, sod it, I'm staying with Verona.

The timing wasn't right and the club wasn't right. The only thing that was right was the transfer budget!

I can't leave now, not like this, and not to a club that I don't even really care about.

I have to learn to love the clubs I manage in some way; to become a supporter of them whilst managing them. I can't find much to make me love Lazio. I don't even like basic things like the colours they play in.

If it was Fiorentina, for instance, then maybe I could find plenty to love, but not Lazio. Sorry any Lazio fans but that's the way it is.

If I go to the capital, it will have to be as Roma manager. I bet Romanista1994 will be proud. I have seen the dark side and come unto the light, or words to that effect.

Now to continue saving Verona from relegation back to Serie B!

You bet very right, I'm more delighted than I should be considering it's your FM career. And tbh if you're displeasing Lazio fans it'll disappoint only about four people in total.

Forza Verona in that case! I can see you staying up, I know a few of your new signings and they're good players in my FM10 Roma save.

[AcidBurn]

Great answer Crouchy, you bring up some very valid points. The match prep for me is always set to team blend and that is it. The training does need some major work, to be fair I can see myself playing FM11 until the third patch of FM12 is out. With my new PC I have thought of going back to FM10 to continue my first continental dominance save as there were a few things I wanted to do on there.

[Flamers]

The only thing that brought me to FM11 instead of staying on 10 was DLR. Other than that I see them as equals.

[crouchaldinho]

You bet very right, I'm more delighted than I should be considering it's your FM career.

At least I have one happy reader!

And tbh if you're displeasing Lazio fans it'll disappoint only about four people in total.

Fair point.

Forza Verona in that case! I can see you staying up, I know a few of your new signings and they're good players in my FM10 Roma save.

Forza Verona indeed!

[crouchaldinho]

Great answer Crouchy, you bring up some very valid points. The match prep for me is always set to team blend and that is it. The training does need some major work, to be fair I can see myself playing FM11 until the third patch of FM12 is out. With my new PC I have thought of going back to FM10 to continue my first continental dominance save as there were a few things I wanted to do on there.

The thing is, I've spent the last couple of versions jumping over to a new FM as soon as it comes out and then getting really disappointed.

For instance, I had a perfectly awesome save going on FM08 and then I dropped everything for FM09 and was hugely gutted when I discovered that I just hated it. Then I couldn't get back into my old FM08 save and I spent the FM year in a kind of purgatory, switching between 08 and 09 and complaining bitterly.

I sense you may know where I'm coming from here AB. You had your awesome continental dominance save on FM10 and then couldn't wait to start it on FM11, only to find that a bug stopped you from enjoying it.

So, it's kind of about the fact that FM10 rocks my world and I don't want to make the same mistake again. I've found a version which is awesome and I don't want to waste any time right now by jumping over to a new version only to find that I don't like it at all. When I put it like that, it's almost like saying that I've lost my faith in SI a bit and I guess I sort of have in some ways.

It's not that I'm afraid of change, it's just that the change has to call out to me and make me think 'wow, I really have to start a save on the new version' and FM 11 doesn't do that for me.

It ultimately comes down to the fact that I just think FM10 is such a balanced and playable game and I'm just not ready to let go of that yet. I'm having so much fun with it and I simply don't have the energy for the new game in lots of different senses.

The only thing that brought me to FM11 instead of staying on 10 was DLR. Other than that I see them as equals.

That was the one thing tempting me but then I found that it had caused problems with reputation (such as those experienced by AB with his save) and it quickly put me off.

[Wavelberry]

Roma is clearly the better club so good move in the end Crouchy.

11.3 is worth doing though once you've finished here (although FM12 may have enticed you by then). My save that I've started has really got me rolling and the things I didn't think I'd like such as the Agents and the conversations are actually quite well integrated into the way I manage now. I didn't start my main save coz of the rep bug and TBH Match Prep doesn't really mean anything. I haven't touched it since the opening days of the season.

That probably won't sell it to you, but that's my take on it. Anyways Forza Verona and all that old chap. Pip pip.

[Flamers]

See Crouchy I don't have the problem with only loading 1 league as I have loads loaded to it says competitive Also view-only seems to keep them semi aggressive.. Not sure what the AI coding is on that though

[AcidBurn]

I mainly got FM11 because I wanted to do the continental save again but as you said it really annoyed me when I couldn't do it due to bugs. When you think about it just as a game gets perfect to play it is around 7 months until the next one is out, I will be waiting this time round if I am enjoying a save on FM11.

[Wavelberry]

I mainly got FM11 because I wanted to do the continental save again but as you said it really annoyed me when I couldn't do it due to bugs. When you think about it just as a game gets perfect to play it is around 7 months until the next one is out, I will be waiting this time round if I am enjoying a save on FM11.

I think I might do this too. I feel the save I'm doing at the moment could be a huge one.

[crouchaldinho]

So, I reject the Lazio job and first game back with Verona is a 2-1 win away at Udinese.

My lads reward my loyalty with a fine win.

Could be a vital three points for us!

[rancer890]

I thought my words could persuade you Crouchy.

The only reason why I hated FM10 and liked FM11 was because of DLR. I had a Stuttgart squad capable of winning the Champions League every season but they would want to go to bigger clubs because the Bundesliga didn't get better as I kept winning.

This is probably too early to ask but are you planning to stick with these FM10 saves even when FM12 is out?

[Gundo]

I do think you made the right choice. I remember the best save I had going on FM10, where I started out at lowly Norwegian club Vidar FK, then moved on to 1st division Bryne, got them promoted to Tippeligaen before deciding to jump ship to Italian Serie B outfit Modena and basically it was the wrong choice at the wrong time, regretted it for some time and ultimately ended my save.

[crouchaldinho]

Why was it the wrong choice for you then Gundo?

I think it would have been the wrong choice for me on this occasion because I didn't feel any interest in Lazio and I would have felt bad leaving Verona at this point in time.

I think if another job came up after I had ensured Verona were safe, and it was the right job (i.e. a club I feel I could build an interest in) then I would take it.

[crouchaldinho]

I thought my words could persuade you Crouchy.

The only reason why I hated FM10 and liked FM11 was because of DLR. I had a Stuttgart squad capable of winning the Champions League every season but they would want to go to bigger clubs because the Bundesliga didn't get better as I kept winning.

This is probably too early to ask but are you planning to stick with these FM10 saves even when FM12 is out?

It really depends.

At the moment, my laptop probably needs an upgrade. If I have the disposable cash when FM12 comes out then a new laptop could play its part!

It also depends on two other things and they are whether or not I get excited about FM12 and whether or not I'm in a good place to finish my FM10 saves and start something new.

To put it bluntly though, if FM12 is just more 3D guff and what I consider to be peripheral stuff, then I'm not sure if I will bother. If the core of the game is improved though, especially things like tactics and training, then there is no doubt I'll be playing it!

Sometimes, when I'm feeling most fed up and frustrated with FM, I start to think of all of the things that never seem to change and all of the bugs that seem to stay from version to version. It drives me slightly crazy. I also get annoyed with the fact that I feel like I'm compromising over some of what I call the 'unwanted features' in the game. I do have to say that I worry about the direction of the game sometimes. I worry that FM might one day cease to be the game I want it to be.

For me, the fantasy and imagination of playing this game is the central element that keeps me coming back and wanting more. If I lose that because of poorly implemented or thought out new features, and stuff that I feel is bloated and not needed, then I'm not sure where I would go from there. Perhaps I would have to be a 'retro-FMer' and just play the older games. Or maybe I just give up on football management games entirely.

It's all a very personal opinion though and, who knows, maybe I'll love the next FM as much as FM10!

[Flamers]

In all honestly producing a new game every year is nearly impossible, especially if you want it to be market leading.

I will give you an example: Crytek.

Some, if not all of you have probably never heard of them but hang with me. In 2004 Crytek released there first game, FarCry, some of you may have heard of it (or it's squeal which Crytek didn't produce). At the time it was heralded as one of the greatest creations, it was graphically one of the most pleasing games of its time. It took until later 2007 for Crytek to release another game, Crysis. Some of you may have heard of this as well, it was the most graphically demanding game to have ever been created, and arguably still is. That was a wait for nearly 4 years for the next game. Crytek are about to release there third game in Europe, Crysis 2, some 4 years later than the original.

The reason for it taking so long between games? They are on 3 different game engines, CryEngine, CryEngine2 and CryEngine3. It's not really surprising that SI are not overhauling the game every year is it?

It is also near impossible to test every possibility for a game. Lets take 1 variable, resolution, think about how many resolutions are in the game. Now add in the fact it's windowed. Not easy...

I'm not defending SI saying they are perfect, far from it. But I can understand why somethings are hard to fix.

And yes I am a fully fledged computer game nerd before you ask, and yes I have spent several years on the Crysis (hence the example) and know a lot about it

[crouchaldinho]

You lost me after the word Crytek.

But I do understand what you're saying Flamers.

On another subject, I'm glad I stayed with Verona. It was the right choice.

I'm loving this relegation battle, which in some ways is more exciting and tense than a battle for the title.

[Flamers]

HAHA, basically Crytek have developed a game every 4 years. SI do one once a year. Don't complain :P

[Gundo]

Why was it the wrong choice for you then Gundo?

I think it would have been the wrong choice for me on this occasion because I didn't feel any interest in Lazio and I would have felt bad leaving Verona at this point in time.

I think if another job came up after I had ensured Verona were safe, and it was the right job (i.e. a club I feel I could build an interest in) then I would take it.

I think what I'm trying to say is you just know deep down if you've made the right decision or not. I am much like you crouchie, in that I need to really like a club before I even consider managing them and after you've made the choice of course there is no going back in my opinion. I think in my case it was the lure of the Italian leagues that was too much to resist, it was the club that wasn't right.

I have a love for Verona in terms of football and the city itself, although it is not Hellas but rivals the Flying Donkeys (ChievoVerona) which is my favorite Italian team.

Look forward to watching you progress with this save anyways.

[crouchaldinho]

I think what I'm trying to say is you just know deep down if you've made the right decision or not. I am much like you crouchie, in that I need to really like a club before I even consider managing them and after you've made the choice of course there is no going back in my opinion. I think in my case it was the lure of the Italian leagues that was too much to resist, it was the club that wasn't right.

Yes, I'm with you on that one.

I have a love for Verona in terms of football and the city itself, although it is not Hellas but rivals the Flying Donkeys (ChievoVerona) which is my favorite Italian team.

Grrrrrrr!

Look forward to watching you progress with this save anyways.

Cheers.

[rancer890]

I made a very very bad choice in my FM09 career game moving from Celtic to Ajax. I hated managing at Celtic because the whole team was unhappy and I just wanted to leave because I had to keep gutting the team every year and jumped at the opportunity to go to Ajax. But PSV were one of the clubs I supported and I couldn't stomach managing that other club.

Crouchy, I thought you were the St. Albans researcher, don't you get a free game every year? I'm definitely getting FM12, because of MLS. And SI never have MLS on the demo so the only way to try it out is to get the game. And I have to get it this October/November because the season's pretty over when it's released every year.

[SnakeXe]

What did you make of the magazine SnakeXe? Will you be ordering the first proper issue?

I've already signed up for the year's subscription for £30 - it's exactly the kind of thing I love reading! I'm up to Gab Marcotti's article about ethics now, absolutely brilliant reading. I did one small module on this sort of thing as part of my University course (Sports Engineering) and it's great to be able to read more about it through the words of one of my favourite sports journalists.

Glad you stayed with Verona, you'd probably have helped your career more with Lazio, but when you have the attachment to the club it's best to stay unless you're 100% sure of the move.

[crouchaldinho]

I made a very very bad choice in my FM09 career game moving from Celtic to Ajax. I hated managing at Celtic because the whole team was unhappy and I just wanted to leave because I had to keep gutting the team every year and jumped at the opportunity to go to Ajax. But PSV were one of the clubs I supported and I couldn't stomach managing that other club.

I can understand that.

Crouchy, I thought you were the St. Albans researcher, don't you get a free game every year?

I am and I do.

It might end with FM12 though because it looks as though the Saints are going to be relegated out of the playable leagues.

[crouchaldinho]

I've already signed up for the year's subscription for £30 - it's exactly the kind of thing I love reading! I'm up to Gab Marcotti's article about ethics now, absolutely brilliant reading. I did one small module on this sort of thing as part of my University course (Sports Engineering) and it's great to be able to read more about it through the words of one of my favourite sports journalists.

I've just pre-ordered the first proper issue for now. I'll try that out and see what I think before subscribing.

Glad you stayed with Verona, you'd probably have helped your career more with Lazio, but when you have the attachment to the club it's best to stay unless you're 100% sure of the move.

Yes, I think you're right there SnakeXe. That's a good piece of advice.

I have aspirations to move abroad to Spain or England at some point but right now I want to stay in Italy and have some success here. Obviously, the whole point of this 'calcio journeyman' save is to make my name in Italy. I quite like the idea of going somewhere like Roma or Fiorentina next.

One of the long-term aims on this save is to try to 'do a Mourinho' (although he hasn't actually done it himself yet) and win the 'grand slam' of an Italian, Spanish and English league title. So, the general plan is to make it in Italy, try to win Serie A, and then move on to big clubs in Spain and Italy to transfer my knowledge of calcio to those countries.

[SazoJohnno]

Assuming you conquered Italy, Spain and England, why dont you try it out with French team or German? That way you can say that you conquered every major europe countries.

[crouchaldinho]

Assuming you conquered Italy, Spain and England, why dont you try it out with French team or German? That way you can say that you conquered every major europe countries.

Well, I only loaded leagues from Italy, Spain and England!

But maybe for a future save. I would really like to manage in France or Germany at some point.

[Flamers]

With the DLR haha :P

[crouchaldinho]

UPDATE AT THE WINTER BREAK - XMAS 2018:




Manager Comments:

We started the 2018/19 campaign with a good solid win in the Italian Cup. We didn't start quite so brightly in the league though, losing at home to Roma and going through the first four games without recording our first win.

As expected, life in Serie A was tough for us. Expected to be relegated and predicted to finish in last place, we were up against it!

Finally, the first win came, and it was a vital one against our fellow relegation candidates Parma.



A Fabio Mirimin hat-trick repaid my faith in the bringing the striker in during the summer.

In the next couple of games, we dropped points against two other relegation candidates in Empoli and Livorno. The 2-0 home defeat to Livorno was particularly hard to take. We should have been much better.

After five games without a win, we went to the capital to play Lazio and finally came away with three points!



Unfortunately, my team are infuriating and they then went to the San Siro and got an absolute hammering. Following this, we snatched a draw from the jaws of victory against Catania. In typical Veronese style, we went 2-0 up and ended up at 2-2 by full-time. Frustrating.

[crouchaldinho]

We bounced back with another good win though, this time over Udinese.



Mirimin has proved invaluable for us as he keeps popping up with goals to win us points here and there.

Once again, though, we went from the sublime to the ridiculous, as we couldn't managed to beat fellow relegation candidates Reggina at home and ended up getting thrashed 3-1. It made me very angry. Will these dropped points against our relegation rivals come back to haunt us?

We got a hammering in the Italian Cup but I played a reserve side, throwing in some young players, because it simply wasn't a priority. We then ended 2018 with a win over AlbinoLeffe, which was sandwiched between heavy losses to Fiorentina and Napoli.



A full league table and some players stats will follow in a minute.

[crouchaldinho]

2018/19 WINTER BREAK SUMMARY:



Serie A Standings:

| Pos   | Inf   | Team        |       | Pld   | Won   | Drn   | Lst   | For   | Ag    | G.D.  | Pts   | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 1st   |       | Palermo     |       | 18    | 13    | 3     | 2     | 32    | 11    | +21   | 42    | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 2nd   |       | A.C. Milan  |       | 18    | 12    | 4     | 2     | 34    | 13    | +21   | 40    | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 3rd   |       | Napoli      |       | 18    | 11    | 6     | 1     | 30    | 11    | +19   | 39    | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 4th   |       | Inter       |       | 18    | 10    | 5     | 3     | 22    | 11    | +11   | 35    | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 5th   |       | Genoa       |       | 18    | 10    | 4     | 4     | 25    | 14    | +11   | 34    | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 6th   |       | Juventus    |       | 18    | 8     | 7     | 3     | 28    | 19    | +9    | 31    | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 7th   |       | Catania     |       | 18    | 8     | 4     | 6     | 25    | 18    | +7    | 28    | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 8th   |       | Roma        |       | 18    | 6     | 6     | 6     | 20    | 21    | -1    | 24    | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 9th   |       | Torino      |       | 18    | 7     | 3     | 8     | 13    | 21    | -8    | 24    | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 10th  |       | Fiorentina  |       | 18    | 6     | 5     | 7     | 27    | 22    | +5    | 23    | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 11th  |       | Udinese     |       | 18    | 5     | 7     | 6     | 23    | 17    | +6    | 22    | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 12th  |       | Empoli      |       | 18    | 5     | 7     | 6     | 19    | 20    | -1    | 22    | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 13th  |       | Sampdoria   |       | 18    | 3     | 11    | 4     | 22    | 23    | -1    | 20    | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 14th  |       | AlbinoLeffe |       | 18    | 5     | 4     | 9     | 20    | 29    | -9    | 19    | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 15th  |       | Livorno     |       | 18    | 3     | 9     | 6     | 10    | 20    | -10   | 18    | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 16th  |       | Verona      |       | 18    | 4     | 5     | 9     | 21    | 31    | -10   | 17    | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 17th  |       | Reggina     |       | 18    | 3     | 5     | 10    | 13    | 26    | -13   | 14    | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 18th  |       | Lazio       |       | 18    | 3     | 5     | 10    | 11    | 22    | -11   | 14    | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 19th  |       | Mantova     |       | 18    | 2     | 6     | 10    | 12    | 32    | -20   | 12    | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 20th  |       | Parma       |       | 18    | 1     | 4     | 13    | 13    | 39    | -26   | 7     | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

First Team Squad Statistics (all competitions):

| Pkd   | Inf   | Name                     | Position     | Apps  | Gls   | Ast   | MoM   | Av Rat| Age   | Nat   | Value | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| GK    |       | Rocco Gentile            | GK           | 19    | -     | 1     | -     | 6.76  | 21    | ITA   | £3.3M | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| DR    | Wnt   | Massimiliano Barrafranca | D/WB RL      | 18 (1)| -     | 1     | -     | 6.43  | 29    | ITA   | £1.2M | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| DL    | Wnt   | Giovanni Troiano         | D/WB L       | 19    | -     | 1     | 2     | 6.91  | 22    | ITA   | £700K | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| DC    |       | Leandro Gioda            | SW, D C      | 19    | -     | -     | -     | 6.82  | 34    | ARG   | £550K | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| DC    |       | Sergiy Klymenko          | D C          | 14 (2)| -     | -     | -     | 6.39  | 18    | UKR   | £2.5M | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| MR    | PR    | Milan Krunic             | AM RC        | 18 (1)| 3     | 1     | -     | 6.96  | 23    | SRB   | £775K | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| ML    | PR    | Luca Ricci               | AM RLC       | 19    | 1     | 1     | 2     | 7.16  | 22    | ITA   | £3.4M | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| MC    | PR    | Sergio Paredes           | D C, DM, M C | 18    | -     | 3     | -     | 6.73  | 19    | CHI   | £3M   | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| MC    |       | Silvio Allievi           | M RC         | 2     | -     | -     | -     | 6.70  | 20    | ITA   | £5M   | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| ST    |       | Davide Vangi             | AM/F C       | 19    | 4     | 4     | 2     | 6.55  | 21    | ITA   | £2.6M | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| ST    | Wnt   | Fabio Mirimin            | ST           | 19    | 10    | 2     | 1     | 6.83  | 26    | ITA   | £500K | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| S1    |       | Héctor Flores            | GK           | 1     | -     | -     | -     | 6.90  | 19    | MEX   | £275K | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| S2    | PR    | Cosimo Paoletti          | D RL         | 1 (1) | -     | -     | -     | 5.80  | 19    | ITA   | £1.8M | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| S3    | Unh   | Cosmin Moţi              | D C          | 5 (7) | -     | -     | -     | 6.16  | 34    | ROU   | £90K  | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| S4    |       | Felipe Melo              | DM, M C      | 2 (6) | -     | 1     | -     | 6.80  | 35    | BRA   | £160K | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| S5    |       | Kevin                    | AM RC        | 2 (9) | 1     | 1     | -     | 6.74  | 26    | ESP   | £1.4M | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| S6    | Slt   | Ashkan Dejagah           | AM RL        | 1 (5) | -     | 1     | -     | 6.45  | 32    | GER   | £1.2M | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| S7    | Wnt   | Paolo Ferrieri           | ST           | 0 (15)| 4     | -     | -     | 6.73  | 24    | ITA   | £1.3M | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| -     |       | Umberto Eusepi           | ST           | 1     | -     | -     | -     | 6.60  | 29    | ITA   | £550K | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| -     | Unh   | Fredy Montero            | F C          | 1     | -     | -     | -     | 6.80  | 31    | COL   | £1M   | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| -     | Unh   | Jacopo Sala              | AM RC        | -     | -     | -     | -     | -     | 27    | ITA   | £1.3M | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| -     |       | Etzaz Hussain            | AM LC        | -     | -     | -     | -     | -     | 25    | NOR   | £1.3M | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| -     |       | Tom Culshaw              | DM, M C      | 0 (2) | -     | -     | -     | 6.65  | 24    | ENG   | £1.2M | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| -     | PR    | Flavio Mancuso           | DM, M C      | 18    | -     | 5     | -     | 6.76  | 23    | ITA   | £1.3M | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

[crouchaldinho]

I'm impressed with the return from Fabio Mirimin considering how little I paid for him. 10 goals from 19 games in Serie A isn't bad, especially considering the fact that he is playing in a poor, struggling side. I only paid £500k for this striking sensation.

At this stage, I'm mainly concerned by the points dropped against teams around us and whether or not that will come back to haunt us later. We dropped points in games against the likes of Livorno, Reggina, Mantova etc., but somehow we've managed to win when it has seemed much harder! Three out of four of our victories so far have come away from home!

[crouchaldinho]

In the winter break, my stupid chairman decided to sell on one of my strikers against my wishes:



Okay, so he wasn't first choice, but he had scored four goals coming off the bench and he was also my main backup.

[crouchaldinho]

I decided to invest the funds in this young and promising defender:



I also sold a few fringe players to bring in some funds. Nobody exciting though.

[Flamers]

You need to improve his heading.. Not good for a DC :P

[crouchaldinho]

I've played on a little past the winter break. I just had to share this result with you guys and especially with Romanista1994!




We were absolutely pummelled for 90 minutes and then totally stole the win in the very last minute of injury time. The Roma fans would no doubt be calling us thieves!

That really was a smash and grab victory. The key seemed to be the fact that I played down our chances in the media, told the players no pressure and praised them at half-time when we got in at 0-0. We also played really defensive football and I just had a feeling, as Roma weren't making quality chances, that we would get something if we could just get one chance. And that we did!

I've never celebrated a victory quite like this one. A vital three points in our survival campaign!

We seem to love our trips to the capital. We've beaten Lazio and Roma this season by the same score.

[crouchaldinho]

You need to improve his heading.. Not good for a DC :P

He's still young so plenty of time to develop and the ingredients for a quality centre-back are there.

I beat off a fair bit of competition from other Serie A sides to get him, believe it or not. I was quite surprised he picked us but I wonder if it was because we could offer him the likelihood of some first team football, whereas he would just be a fringe player for most other sides.

[Romanista1994]

Would've been much, much worse if you did that with Lazio. And in FM Karma becomes chairman.

Centofanti looks awesome, he has jumping and speed, good mental stats and good marking (I don't care too much about the rest).
Could do with an Italian CB talent in my own save, the last one my academy produced has been stagnating. :/

[Wavelberry]

Excellent stuff so far Crouchy. Mirimin has proven to be a fine signing. Did you not fel the need to buy another striker after the selling of your back-up?

[crouchaldinho]

Excellent stuff so far Crouchy. Mirimin has proven to be a fine signing. Did you not fel the need to buy another striker after the selling of your back-up?

I couldn't find a decent striker at a good price. I decided to stick with what I've got. I do have a couple of other options, although they probably aren't good enough for the level.

[SnakeXe]

Mirimin has done excellently! How's Klymenko doing? Looks like he's made your first team but his average rating is pretty poor.

[crouchaldinho]

Mirimin has done excellently!

Yes, I've been really pleased with him.

How's Klymenko doing? Looks like he's made your first team but his average rating is pretty poor.

He hasn't done great. I've been rotating him with Moti but both seem to regularly have nightmare games. That's why I've gone out and bought Centofanti.

[crouchaldinho]

It's also worth noting that Luca Ricci has stepped up to the level pretty nicely and the other wide player, Krunic, has scored a few vital goals.

[SnakeXe]

He hasn't done great. I've been rotating him with Moti but both seem to regularly have nightmare games. That's why I've gone out and bought Centofanti.

FWIW on FM10 I always found one of my DCs (the right one I think) would constantly play very well, 7.5 or so average rating, whilst the other (left) would be around 6.7. When the right sided guy was up for retirement, I moved the left sided one over to the right, and brought in someone else to play on the left.

The previously-meh defender then started hitting 7.5 averages, whilst the new guy was poor. My DCs were set up exactly the same - and herein lies the problem I think. We'll have to see if Centofani performs any better!

[crouchaldinho]

Crouchy's Calcio Journeyman Save - Project 2: Hellas Verona in Serie A (Season Five at the Bentegodi - 2018/19)



End of Season 18/19 Screenshots:

League Table - We were always going to be hugely up against it this season. When I got promoted to the Premier League with the Saints, I had the luxury of a huge transfer budget given to me by my chairman. Here at Verona, I had no such luxury on our return to Serie A, so it made life very difficult. It was much more of a challenge, that's for sure. We were given huge odds for most games, no chance of staying up and we didn't really have quality players for this level. Indeed, most of my lads are Serie B standard. The aim was always going to be getting to around 40 points and staying clear of relegation. I know it's perhaps more exciting when you win titles and stuff but this relegation battle actually gave me more of a thrill at times, especially when we got an unlikely result in a game where the odds were stacked against us. The only time it got boring was towards the end of the season when it appeared that we were safe and had nothing to play for.

League results Part one

League results Part two


League Positions Graph - A slow start as we bounced around near the bottom but in the end the bottom three were pretty clear cut and we managed to pull away from them. The key was learning to bounce back from defeat pretty quickly. I think man management, rather than the tactical element, saved us this season. It was really important to keep heads up and take the pressure away so that they could go out and quickly overcome any bad runs of form.


Italian Cup – Just a couple of games. I played the fringe players and we got knocked out as soon as possible. Some of the clubs below us had a bit of a run in this competition and I don't think it helped them at all. For us, this wasn't a priority and I was glad to be rid of it so that we could concentrate on the real business of survival.


Transfers - We brought in £6.75m with the sale of players and spent £6m to strengthen the team. I like to think that I did some good wheeling and dealing here. Without much money to spend, I had to fashion a squad to survive in Serie A, and I achieved that so I'm pleased. Mirimin for £500k was an absolute bargain and stroke of genius, even if I do say so myself.


Key players (ordered from defence to attack):

Giovanni Troiano - A young attacking left-back who had a very solid season for us.

Flavio Mancuso - Stepped up to the level pretty well. Scored a few quality goals and also was involved in setting up a fair number too.

Milan Krunic - Joined on loan and really made a decent impact. He is quick with good agility and balance, plus great technical ability. His ability to anticipate things and his work rate are also a good bonus. May look to sign him up.

Luca Ricci - Stepped up to the level fairly easily and did very well in a struggling team. He is really all about his pace, balance and
technical ability. He won the player of the year award for the second year running.

Fabio Mirimin - I was really pleased with how this signing worked out. I didn't expect as much as we got out of him, to be quite honest, and his goals were one of the main reasons we managed to stay in the league. His anticipation, first touch and ability to take on his man given him an edge, and he also has good strength and excellent work rate. A bargain at only £500k. Signing of the season.


Team of the Season.


Career Overview:

Season      	Team      	League      	Position   	Achievements & Notes
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2009/10      	Carrarese   	Serie C2/B   	6th      	(Took over after 17 games)
2010/11      	Carrarese   	Serie C2/C   	1st      	Serie C2/C winners & C2 Super Cup winners (MoY)
2011/12		Carrarese	Serie C1/A	8th
2012/13		Carrarese	Serie C1/A	3rd		3rd in C1/A, Play-off winners, Serie C Cup semi-finalists (MoY runner-up)
2013/14		Carrarese	Serie B		13th		Left at end of season
2014/15 	Hellas Verona	Serie C1/A	13th		(Took over after 15 games)
2015/16		Hellas Verona	Serie C1/A	2nd		Serie C1/A Runners-up & Play-off finalists (MoY 3rd place)
2016/17		Hellas Verona	Serie C1/A	1st		C1/A Champions, Serie C Cup winners, C1 Super Cup winners (MoY)
2017/18		Hellas Verona	Serie B		3rd		Play-off winners. Promotion!
2018/19		Hellas Verona	Serie A		16th		Survival!

Misc. screenshots:

Verona's Fabio Mirimin is signing of the season!

This screenshot shows the difference between the top clubs and Hellas Verona.


Next Season: I expressed my interested in the Fiorentina job but was considered only an outsider for the position. At present, it looks as though I'm staying in Verona.

I'm happy at Verona and enjoying my time here but last season was a bit of a struggle towards the end when we had nothing to play for. Next season, I think I will really start to get fed up if we end up in mid-table with no real chance of challenging for Europe but also no threat of relegation.

I'm hoping to improve on 16th place, obviously. I really need to try to get the best out of Vangi because he had an up and down season and was quite inconsistent. We won't have a lot of money to spend, so the priority will be to invest wisely in younger players. I'm gearing up for another tough season but hopefully we'll make some progress in the right direction and I've still got an eye out for the Fiorentina or Roma jobs!

[crouchaldinho]

END OF SEASON 2018/19 SUMMARY:



Serie B Final Standings:

| Pos   | Inf   | Team        |       | Pld   | Won   | Drn   | Lst   | For   | Ag    | G.D.  | Pts   | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 1st   | C     | A.C. Milan  |       | 38    | 26    | 6     | 6     | 66    | 29    | +37   | 84    | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 2nd   |       | Napoli      |       | 38    | 21    | 15    | 2     | 63    | 25    | +38   | 78    | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 3rd   |       | Palermo     |       | 38    | 21    | 10    | 7     | 53    | 25    | +28   | 73    | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 4th   |       | Genoa       |       | 38    | 18    | 14    | 6     | 62    | 39    | +23   | 68    | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 5th   |       | Inter       |       | 38    | 19    | 11    | 8     | 53    | 33    | +20   | 68    | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 6th   |       | Juventus    |       | 38    | 18    | 12    | 8     | 55    | 32    | +23   | 66    | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 7th   |       | Catania     |       | 38    | 17    | 8     | 13    | 49    | 44    | +5    | 59    | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 8th   |       | Roma        |       | 38    | 16    | 11    | 11    | 51    | 42    | +9    | 59    | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 9th   |       | Udinese     |       | 38    | 15    | 12    | 11    | 54    | 36    | +18   | 57    | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 10th  |       | Fiorentina  |       | 38    | 14    | 10    | 14    | 63    | 52    | +11   | 52    | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 11th  |       | Torino      |       | 38    | 13    | 9     | 16    | 37    | 46    | -9    | 48    | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 12th  |       | Sampdoria   |       | 38    | 9     | 20    | 9     | 47    | 43    | +4    | 47    | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 13th  |       | Empoli      |       | 38    | 12    | 10    | 16    | 43    | 49    | -6    | 46    | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 14th  |       | Lazio       |       | 38    | 11    | 10    | 17    | 31    | 41    | -10   | 43    | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 15th  |       | AlbinoLeffe |       | 38    | 10    | 10    | 18    | 40    | 57    | -17   | 40    | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 16th  |       | Verona      |       | 38    | 10    | 9     | 19    | 44    | 65    | -21   | 39    | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 17th  |       | Livorno     |       | 38    | 7     | 12    | 19    | 20    | 46    | -26   | 33    | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 18th  | R     | Reggina     |       | 38    | 5     | 11    | 22    | 18    | 54    | -36   | 26    | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 19th  | R     | Mantova     |       | 38    | 5     | 9     | 24    | 24    | 68    | -44   | 24    | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| 20th  | R     | Parma       |       | 38    | 4     | 9     | 25    | 30    | 77    | -47   | 21    | 
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

First Team Squad Statistics (all competitions):

| Pkd   | Inf   | Name                     | Position     | Apps  | Gls   | Ast   | MoM   | Av Rat| Age   | Nat   | Value | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| GK    | Hol   | Rocco Gentile            | GK           | 39    | -     | 1     | 1     | 6.74  | 22    | ITA   | £3.1M | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| DR    | Hol   | Massimiliano Barrafranca | D/WB RL      | 36 (1)| -     | 2     | -     | 6.38  | 30    | ITA   | £725K | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| DL    | Hol   | Giovanni Troiano         | D/WB L       | 36    | -     | 2     | 2     | 6.91  | 22    | ITA   | £2.4M | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| DC    | Inj   | Sergiy Klymenko          | D C          | 31 (2)| 1     | 1     | -     | 6.58  | 18    | UKR   | £2.4M | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| DC    | Hol   | Antonio Centofanti       | D C          | 5 (3) | -     | -     | -     | 6.54  | 19    | ITA   | £2M   | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| MR    | Hol   | Milan Krunic             | AM RC        | 32 (2)| 4     | 4     | 2     | 6.94  | 24    | SRB   | £1.1M | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| ML    | Hol   | Luca Ricci               | AM RLC       | 38    | 1     | 3     | 2     | 7.06  | 23    | ITA   | £3.3M | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| MC    | Hol   | Sergio Paredes           | D C, DM, M C | 29    | -     | 3     | -     | 6.72  | 20    | CHI   | £3.4M | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| MC    | Hol   | Flavio Mancuso           | DM, M C      | 38    | 3     | 7     | -     | 6.75  | 23    | ITA   | £1.5M | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| ST    | Hol   | Davide Vangi             | AM/F C       | 39    | 7     | 5     | 2     | 6.45  | 21    | ITA   | £2.5M | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| ST    | Hol   | Fabio Mirimin            | ST           | 39    | 21    | 5     | 5     | 6.94  | 26    | ITA   | £5.75M| 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| S1    | Hol   | Héctor Flores            | GK           | 1     | -     | -     | -     | 6.90  | 19    | MEX   | £375K | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| S2    | Hol   | Cosimo Paoletti          | D RL         | 6 (7) | -     | 2     | -     | 6.39  | 20    | ITA   | £1.4M | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| S3    | Hol   | Cosmin Moţi              | D RC         | 6 (8) | -     | -     | -     | 6.15  | 34    | ROU   | £26K  | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| S4    | Hol   | Felipe Melo              | DM, M C      | 7 (9) | -     | 1     | -     | 6.68  | 35    | BRA   | £65K  | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| S5    | Hol   | Kevin                    | AM RC        | 8 (15)| 2     | 1     | -     | 6.65  | 27    | ESP   | £1.4M | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| S6    | Hol   | Ashkan Dejagah           | AM RL        | 2 (10)| -     | 2     | -     | 6.62  | 32    | GER   | £625K | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| S7    | Hol   | Fredy Montero            | F C          | 1 (7) | -     | -     | -     | 6.59  | 31    | COL   | £375K | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| -     | Hol   | Leandro Gioda            | SW, D C      | 36 (1)| 1     | -     | -     | 6.83  | 34    | ARG   | £350K | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| -     | Hol   | Umberto Eusepi           | ST           | 1     | -     | -     | -     | 6.60  | 30    | ITA   | £575K | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| -     | Hol   | Jacopo Sala              | AM RC        | 0 (3) | -     | -     | -     | 6.50  | 27    | ITA   | £1.7M | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| -     | Hol   | Etzaz Hussain            | AM LC        | 0 (6) | -     | 1     | -     | 6.70  | 26    | NOR   | £1.7M | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| -     | Hol   | Tom Culshaw              | DM, M C      | 2 (6) | -     | -     | -     | 6.70  | 24    | ENG   | £825K | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| 
| -     | Hol   | Silvio Allievi           | M RC         | 4 (8) | 1     | 1     | -     | 6.56  | 21    | ITA   | £4.4M | 
| ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

[crouchaldinho]

My Carrarese Record (2009 - 2014 [1,660 days]):

P 	W 	D 	L 	F	A	Win % 		Competitions Won
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
185	87	53	45	285	184	47%		Serie C2/C Champions
								C2 Super Cup winners
								Serie C1/A Play-off winners

My Hellas Verona Record (2014 - Present [1,663 days so far]):

P 	W 	D 	L 	F	A	Win % 		Competitions Won
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
199 	105	46	48	313	193	52.76%		Serie B Play-off winners
								Serie C1/A Champions
								Serie C Cup winners
								C1 Super Cup winners

[crouchaldinho]

And so that's 10 years of football management in Italy and I've pretty much established myself as a Serie A manager.

[crouchaldinho]

A few more screenshots for you:

Some Verona youngsters head off to the European U21 Championships.

They are all first choice and they all play a part in topping their group.

They go on to reach the final but are beaten.

Davide Vangi finishes as the tournament's top scorer. How do I get him to translate this kind of form back to Serie A with Hellas Verona!

[Wavelberry]

Good work on survival. I see Lazio didn't end up that much further up the table.

Where was Vangi playing for the under 21s? Is he going to flourish in a 4-4-2? Also don't forget that he is still 21. Might take him a bit of time to get up to Serie A spec.

[crouchaldinho]

Good work on survival. I see Lazio didn't end up that much further up the table.

No they didn't. With the transfer budget they had and the players at their disposal already, I would have finished in a higher position had I been in charge.

Where was Vangi playing for the under 21s? Is he going to flourish in a 4-4-2?

He was playing central striker in a 4-4-2 for Italy U21s. As the deeper-lying striker too!

I think he should flourish in a 4-4-2. I make him second striker with plenty of freedom to play as he sees fit. It's a fluid system too.

Also don't forget that he is still 21. Might take him a bit of time to get up to Serie A spec.

He did well enough for me at Serie B level. I think you've hit the nail on the head in terms of age though. He needs more time to develop and to become more consistent.

[Romanista1994]

Davide Vangi finishes as the tournament's top scorer. How do I get him to translate this kind of form back to Serie A with Hellas Verona!

Play him in the youth squad obviously.

Well done on staying up. Just a shame that Lazio weren't relegated after being in the drop zone at the half-way stage.

[crouchaldinho]

Play him in the youth squad obviously.

Well done on staying up. Just a shame that Lazio weren't relegated after being in the drop zone at the half-way stage.

Yeah, your hatred of Lazio is starting to rub off on me. I was really hoping they would go down and looking out for their results hoping that they would lose.

[SnakeXe]

Haha, great job staying up! Reading this is making me yearn for a return to Messina...

[crouchaldinho]

Haha, great job staying up! Reading this is making me yearn for a return to Messina...

Do it SnakeXe!

[crouchaldinho]

Since coming back to this save, I've come to the conclusion that I'm a small club to big club, one club, kind of guy.

I don't think that I really like the journeyman game as it presents too much of a distraction when managing your current club (e.g. always looking to the next job). I always quite like the idea of it but in practice it never quite works out for me. I also prefer the pace of playing with just one country's leagues loaded and a smaller database.

Whilst I love playing as Hellas Verona, I'm not sure whether or not I will go further with this save. I've loved my time with Hellas Verona and I'd like to continue on but the speed of the save is getting me down a little bit. I'm almost tempted to start a new save in Italy with just Italy loaded and a slightly smaller database. I do love Italian football on FM and I'd be so tempted to return for a small club to big club save here like SnakeXe's Messina one.

It seems a shame to leave things here though whilst I'm on the verge of Serie A greatness. I've no idea what to do right now.

[jackripper]

do you have FM11 yet? Maybe start a save on there. Maybe try a different league

[crouchaldinho]

do you have FM11 yet? Maybe start a save on there. Maybe try a different league

Maybe.... maybe.... although the Saints might be calling.....

[SnakeXe]

Do it SnakeXe!

Sod it, I'm not enjoying that stupid journeyman save anyway

[crouchaldinho]

Sod it, I'm not enjoying that stupid journeyman save anyway

I thought you'd be back to Messina at some point. Are you missing it?

Maybe I need to go back to my Saints save too?

[SnakeXe]

Just loaded it up and I'm never leaving it again (until FM12 anyway!)

Loureiro, Kooiman, Vega, Vitone, Aguero, Arguelles and my 4-2-3-1 formation - everything that was completely missing from my journeyman save. 10-year plus relationships with players, instilling a tactical philosophy at the club, the classic number 10, how I missed thee

[crouchaldinho]

Just loaded it up and I'm never leaving it again (until FM12 anyway!)

Ah, good news.

Loureiro, Kooiman, Vega, Vitone, Aguero, Arguelles and my 4-2-3-1 formation

I know the feeling well. Even returning to this save, I was thrilled to find Umberto Eusepi, Davide Vangi etc.

If I return to the Saints, I'll be thrilled to find Dean Smith, Christobal Alonso, Michael Ball, Guillermo Decima, Jake Cole, Grace Ngome, Michel Vermeer etc. etc.!

everything that was completely missing from my journeyman save. 10-year plus relationships with players, instilling a tactical philosophy at the club, the classic number 10, how I missed thee

Yes, I think this is why I am also a small club to big club, one club, kind of guy. Building something special and the legacy that goes with it can be lost in a journeyman save.

[crouchaldinho]

do you have FM11 yet? Maybe start a save on there. Maybe try a different league

I occasionally think of it. I did wonder if another Fabio Crouchello saga might be in order..... or Harry Crouchknapp, perhaps!

[crouchaldinho]

Maybe the answer will be to put this to one side for now and come back if the fancy takes me in the future. I'm loving Hellas Verona but wishing it was just a one club save.

[SnakeXe]

Go manage Montenegro then you can be Zlatko Crouchjcar

Yeah I think my self-imposed 2-season limit was a mistake for my first ever proper attempt at a journeyman save. Too different too soon I think! Perhaps on FM12 I'll start a normal one where I can just move on when I feel it's right/necessary

[crouchaldinho]

Go manage Montenegro then you can be Zlatko Crouchjcar

Ha! Not quite sure about that!

Yeah I think my self-imposed 2-season limit was a mistake for my first ever proper attempt at a journeyman save. Too different too soon I think! Perhaps on FM12 I'll start a normal one where I can just move on when I feel it's right/necessary)

Yeah, I think you might have set yourself up for difficulties there. Journeyman games can really drag on when you're always looking to the next job. You get to a stage where you lose focus of the immediate goal and start to desire a move and then it can become very stale very quickly. I think that was your mistake unfortunately.

I also think you need an awesome machine to run a good journeyman. I only have Italy, Spain and England loaded in this save but my machine struggles along a bit.

I'd definitely stick with this and just stay at Hellas Verona if it wasn't for that. Had I just loaded all Italy with a medium database then I'd be playing on now.

The speed has put me off a bit. That's not to say that I won't come back to it but I'm a bit fed up for now.

Still, I've had an interesting 10 years in Italy and at least had some success and made it to Serie A. Some very good memories from the save.

Who knows, I might come back. I will save it somewhere.

Like you, SnakeXe, I fancy going back to the happy and familiar place of my favourite save. I bet it was good to reopen that Messina save and to discover the joys you left behind!

[SnakeXe]

Agreed on the reasons for my journeyman save being crap. I'll try it again, I know, but probably not til FM12. I might rebuild my desktop before that so I have a really good machine to run plenty of leagues on. My laptop is nice, being able to sit in front of the TV and all, but it'll never match a desktop for performance.

Like you, SnakeXe, I fancy going back to the happy and familiar place of my favourite save. I bet it was good to reopen that Messina save and to discover the joys you left behind!

It was pretty excellent - looking forward to my first match back even more I have to say. Can't wait to see Vega dink a perfectly-weighted pass over the top or Loureiro burst forward from right-back to deliver a telling cross

[MattSpurs94]

My laptop can't even properly run FM, let alone a journeyman career

I've seen about 2 Blue Screen's while playing it

[crouchaldinho]

My laptop can't even properly run FM, let alone a journeyman career

I've seen about 2 Blue Screen's while playing it

Ah, depressing. I love my old laptop but I do wish she could handle a bit more FM!

Time for you to upgrade Mattspurs?