Patch 8.0.1. Shots to Goal Ratio not fixed - SHOCKING!! SI Please answer - believe to be related to Closing down and Long shots bug

**Fred_the_Red** · 22-11-2007 15:20

I thought the 8.0.1 patch would fix the closing down and long shots bug by now. But no it hasn't. Long shots seems to have been toned down a little, closing down seems to sometimes work sometimes doesn't.

Before the 8.0.1 patch
http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5211026...342078263#9342078263

I had poor shots to goals ration

After the patch

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/3343/asadadadqs4.jpg

Still the same! Nothing has changed.

Basically this closing down and long shot bug is what is causing everyone to have 20 shots on goal but only resulting in 1 or 2 goals scored. Fair enough only 2% of the shots go in. But if the opposition win as a result of 3 - 4 shots where you had 20 thats unfair and unrealistic.

There is a game in there where Ipswich had 5 shots but NO/NOTHING/ZERO shots had hit the target AND THEY STILL SCORED!?!??! That game cost me 2 points.

Since the patch I lost in the champions league, FA cup final and my run of form in the league.

There are a load of people complaing about the number of shots per goals since the installing the patch. So its not just me

http://community.sigames.com/eve/for...1/m/6542031363
http://community.sigames.com/eve/for...2542009263/p/7
http://community.sigames.com/eve/for...3/m/7192061363

This thread documents some problems.
http://community.sigames.com/eve/for...3/m/6682090363

I believe the long shot and closing bug has not been toned down enough or at all. This is why players are shooting outside of box when told not to and missiing targets therefore resulting in 20 shots on goal.

And before you tell me to upload my games to the bugs forum I HAVE SINCE OCTOBER

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9482076...062040953#9062040953

**Fred_the_Red** · 22-11-2007 15:20

I thought the 8.0.1 patch would fix the closing down and long shots bug by now. But no it hasn't. Long shots seems to have been toned down a little, closing down seems to sometimes work sometimes doesn't.

Before the 8.0.1 patch
http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5211026...342078263#9342078263

I had poor shots to goals ration

After the patch

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/3343/asadadadqs4.jpg

Still the same! Nothing has changed.

Basically this closing down and long shot bug is what is causing everyone to have 20 shots on goal but only resulting in 1 or 2 goals scored. Fair enough only 2% of the shots go in. But if the opposition win as a result of 3 - 4 shots where you had 20 thats unfair and unrealistic.

There is a game in there where Ipswich had 5 shots but NO/NOTHING/ZERO shots had hit the target AND THEY STILL SCORED!?!??! That game cost me 2 points.

Since the patch I lost in the champions league, FA cup final and my run of form in the league.

There are a load of people complaing about the number of shots per goals since the installing the patch. So its not just me

http://community.sigames.com/eve/for...1/m/6542031363
http://community.sigames.com/eve/for...2542009263/p/7
http://community.sigames.com/eve/for...3/m/7192061363

This thread documents some problems.
http://community.sigames.com/eve/for...3/m/6682090363

I believe the long shot and closing bug has not been toned down enough or at all. This is why players are shooting outside of box when told not to and missiing targets therefore resulting in 20 shots on goal.

And before you tell me to upload my games to the bugs forum I HAVE SINCE OCTOBER

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9482076...062040953#9062040953

**Hairy Coo** · 22-11-2007 15:23

Its a game

**RoyalHankey** · 22-11-2007 15:24

try playing a new game maybe the patch not work on demo game or beta patch game

**NickBlues** · 22-11-2007 15:26

fix your tactics

**Fred_the_Red** · 22-11-2007 15:26

Its Â£24.99 of my hard earn money that Ive payed and not been able to play since I first purchased it (October). Waited and waited for weeks and weeks for a decent patch to fix things. But still unable to play.

Now I have to wait till 2008 for the 8.0.2 patch

**Fred_the_Red** · 22-11-2007 15:28

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NickBlues:
fix your tactics

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why should I fix a working tactic that creates 30 shots on goal???

**NickBlues** · 22-11-2007 15:29

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fred_the_Red:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NickBlues:
fix your tactics

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why should I fix a working tactic that creates 30 shots on goal??? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

did you score 30 goals?

**Ackter** · 22-11-2007 15:30

Some stats using my 433 team, with Dean Ashton up front on his own:

Matches: 28
Shots: 366
On Target: 211
% of shots on Target: 58

(I don't have individual player stats from just those 28 games, so I have to go with the last 40):
Dean Ashton has scored 33 goals in 40 games from 153 shots - 97 of those shots were on target (coming in at 63% of total shots were on target).

That's a 34% success rate - ie he scores with one of every three shots on target.

**Fred_the_Red** · 22-11-2007 15:31

No but I expect after creating 30 chances that my players consisting of Rooney, Pato, Podolski, Fernandez and Anderson would at least put away 2 of those chances and win teams that create 4 chances.

**Fred_the_Red** · 22-11-2007 15:34

Another thread on the matter.

http://community.sigames.com/eve/for...1/m/2842021363

**carlos1879** · 22-11-2007 15:35

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NickBlues:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fred_the_Red:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NickBlues:
fix your tactics

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why should I fix a working tactic that creates 30 shots on goal??? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why do they always say its someone else's fault never the game's fair enough being a fan but being blinded to the problems is ridiculus just becaue it doesn't affect you doesn't mean its not real not all of these shots will be long shots some are absolute sitters and theres no tactic that can stop good players from suddenly losing all sense of direction when only 2yards from goal I wish there was a "shoot accurate" setting but unfortunatly their isnt just players like Henry and Rooney missing absloute sitters day in day out and some opposing centre back with 1 finishing scoring a 40 yard volley with their only shot

did you score 30 goals? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

**williamshankley** · 22-11-2007 15:36

Surely the quality of chances has something to do with it?

Are you Gerard Houllier in disguise?

Well we had 26 shots today and didn't score any they had 4 great chances and scored 3 goals!

Got to be your tactics

**carlos1879** · 22-11-2007 15:37

well ive just proved I am as compotent as said strikers the bit below should be below the "did you score 30 goals?" crack

Why do they always say its someone else's fault never the game's fair enough being a fan but being blinded to the problems is ridiculus just becaue it doesn't affect you doesn't mean its not real not all of these shots will be long shots some are absolute sitters and theres no tactic that can stop good players from suddenly losing all sense of direction when only 2yards from goal I wish there was a "shoot accurate" setting but unfortunatly their isnt just players like Henry and Rooney missing absloute sitters day in day out and some opposing centre back with 1 finishing scoring a 40 yard volley with their only shot

and sorry for need to double post I am an incompotent perfectionist a terrible combo

**carlos1879** · 22-11-2007 15:39

Quality of chances a blind chicken could hit an open net from 6 yards with the keeper in the middle of no where but the worlds finest cant in this game

**Ackter** · 22-11-2007 15:39

Punctuation also doesn't effect you it seems.

**Fred_the_Red** · 22-11-2007 15:40

My forwards are far from crap so it cant be my players.
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/2...eqeqeqewx1.jpg

My tactic works because I create 30 chances.

The game somehow stops me from scoring easy goals and preventing me winning matches I should have won.

It's not one offs. Its every game I play. My screen shots prove this
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/3343/asadadadqs4.jpg
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/6...6666666iu7.jpg

**Ackter** · 22-11-2007 15:41

Fred, none of the threads you've linked to have any sort of statistical data backing up what they're saying. It's basically just rants based on losing matches.

If you can provide proper objective stats to back up your claims then please do so.

**Hairy Coo** · 22-11-2007 15:41

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fred_the_Red:
Another thread on the matter.

http://community.sigames.com/eve/for...1/m/2842021363 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats a very poor example fwiw 5 shots on compared to 2 is hardly ridiculous

**Ackter** · 22-11-2007 15:42

Fred, creating 30 chances doesn't really mean that much as it's the quality of those chances that count.

**Ritzy9** · 22-11-2007 15:44

I just played Barnsley in the League cup as Newcastle. They raped me. They had 27 shots 13 on target. I had 13 shots 7 on target.

I won 2-3

Get better players making the shots or change your tactics

**SkidRo** · 22-11-2007 15:45

everyones seems to complain about these problems but i find that they dont trouble me before patch and after patch still have a nice amoutn of shots on goal that would justify my win/draw/loss and i feel long have toned down even more since the patch now at least when i instruct not to they have followed the orders 90% perfectly

**carlos1879** · 22-11-2007 15:45

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ackter:
Punctuation also doesn't effect you it seems. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Damn you lol as I recently said in a thread my keyboard is duff and the only punctuation I have is a full stop occasionally I should have mentioned it but forgot because I was busy mashing the keyboard trying in vain for a full stop sorry for the lack of punctuation its not my fault honest

And some chances I have seen squandered are rooney hitting it over the bar from 6 yards 3times in one game id classify that as a quality chance

**Hairy Coo** · 22-11-2007 15:45

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Get better players making the shots or change your tactics </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now thats advice which covers all bases

**PaulC** · 22-11-2007 15:48

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Basically this closing down and long shot bug is what is causing everyone to have 20 shots on goal but only resulting in 1 or 2 goals scored </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dont really understand how you come to that conclusion. Firstly the closing down bug is fixed, and secondly I am not aware of any proven "long shot bug" in any version of FM2008.

I cant comment further on your examples without viewing the actual matches.

However stats from a one season PL test I ran before it was released using patch code showed the following:

English Premier Division
---------------
Games played 380
Goals per match 2.39
Shots per match 23.32
Shots on target per match 12.31 (53%)

Cheers,
Paul

**Ackter** · 22-11-2007 15:48

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hairy Coo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Get better players making the shots or change your tactics </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now thats advice which covers all bases </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In this case the second part is almmost certainly correct.
Sure the creative part of his team is working well, but there's obviously a problem in the final third.

I'm going to guess that he's being too attacking, and too up-tempo.

**Serpico** · 22-11-2007 15:49

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ackter:
Fred, none of the threads you've linked to have any sort of statistical data backing up what they're saying. It's basically just rants based on losing matches.

If you can provide proper objective stats to back up your claims then please do so. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have no stats I'm afraid, but from where I'm sitting there has been a problem with the game creating way too many great chances for years now. This is the root of the problem imho.

And strikers do shoot too early when clear through on goal. Well mine do anyway.

nojanana · 22-11-2007 15:52

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">and secondly I am not aware of any proven "long shot bug" in any version of FM2008. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
oh dear, even the ppl in charge are in denial now!!

**Ackter** · 22-11-2007 15:53

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">have no stats I'm afraid, but from where I'm sitting there has been a problem with the game creating way too many great chances for years now. This is the root of the problem imho.

And strikers do shoot too early when clear through on goal. Well mine do anyway. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Both true, but neither are the reason for what's going on here. Both are certainly contributing, but his match stats suggest much more is going on. I believe it's tactical.

**Sweed** · 22-11-2007 15:54

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fred_the_Red:

The game somehow stops me from scoring easy goals and preventing me winning matches I should have won.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow, just wow. That's got to be the post of the year, too funny. If you are not winning it is something YOU are doing, it's not the game going out of it's way to cheat you. When I lose a match I may yell at my monitor or curse my bad luck but then I go back and try to figure out what I could have done better instead of blaming the coding of the game.

**Ackter** · 22-11-2007 15:54

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nojanana:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">and secondly I am not aware of any proven "long shot bug" in any version of FM2008. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
oh dear, even the ppl in charge are in denial now!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Prove him wrong, then. There's a bugs forum and FTP available to you for this purpose.

**carlos1879** · 22-11-2007 15:59

There is a long shot bug or was they claim anyway there was loads of stuff about it on the bugs forum for beta2 they even admited it

nojanana · 22-11-2007 16:02

clint dempsey scoring a hatrick, all 3 goals from 25-30yards with long shots of 10, isnt a bug??

**Ackter** · 22-11-2007 16:04

No it's not. It's unlikely, but it's not a bug.

**Serpico** · 22-11-2007 16:07

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nojanana:
clint dempsey scoring a hatrick, all 3 goals from 25-30yards with long shots of 10, isnt a bug?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, it's coincidence.

Holding up one match and saying it proves a bug's existence or not is just daft.

**chopo** · 22-11-2007 16:08

The long shots thing might not be, but are we accepting that there is still a problem with shots?

I'm getting far too many every game.

**buckfast** · 22-11-2007 16:09

lol. Your name is "Cameron Kwong" what a stupid name

nojanana · 22-11-2007 16:12

that was just one game i could remember from 8.0.0......there were others but that one kind of stayed in my mind

**kccircle** · 22-11-2007 16:13

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fred_the_Red:
I thought the 8.0.1 patch would fix the closing down and long shots bug by now. But no it hasn't. Long shots seems to have been toned down a little, closing down seems to sometimes work sometimes doesn't.

Before the 8.0.1 patch
http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5211026...342078263#9342078263

I had poor shots to goals ration

After the patch

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/3343/asadadadqs4.jpg

Still the same! Nothing has changed.

Basically this closing down and long shot bug is what is causing everyone to have 20 shots on goal but only resulting in 1 or 2 goals scored. Fair enough only 2% of the shots go in. But if the opposition win as a result of 3 - 4 shots where you had 20 thats unfair and unrealistic.

There is a game in there where Ipswich had 5 shots but NO/NOTHING/ZERO shots had hit the target AND THEY STILL SCORED!?!??! That game cost me 2 points.

Since the patch I lost in the champions league, FA cup final and my run of form in the league.

There are a load of people complaing about the number of shots per goals since the installing the patch. So its not just me

http://community.sigames.com/eve/for...1/m/6542031363
http://community.sigames.com/eve/for...2542009263/p/7
http://community.sigames.com/eve/for...3/m/7192061363

This thread documents some problems.
http://community.sigames.com/eve/for...3/m/6682090363

I believe the long shot and closing bug has not been toned down enough or at all. This is why players are shooting outside of box when told not to and missiing targets therefore resulting in 20 shots on goal.

And before you tell me to upload my games to the bugs forum I HAVE SINCE OCTOBER

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9482076...062040953#9062040953 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fix the game LOL

fix my tactics
or
new patch - start new game
or
i'm not good at this game - blame SI
or
you cant win every game
or
i played same formation so I should win
or
I support ManYoo

(apologies for last comment)

**SlayerX** · 22-11-2007 16:15

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by buckfast:
lol. Your name is "Cameron Kwong" what a stupid name </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was below-the-belt.

**earmack** · 22-11-2007 16:21

This occurance is not a bug per se, but it obviously is a problem for people, mayhap SI could make the game more intuitive? I have never had any player convert 1/3 chances in over 200 seasons total (across all FM releases)but of course my tactics are responsible for this. Also mayhap the more 'senior' posters could use their noggins and steer clear of these topics instead of saying (EVERY GODDAMN TIME) 'well I don't have any problems making Average Mcaveragepants score 50 goals from 52 chances' because its the wrong side of helpful and the right side of bragging.

**This field intentionally left blank** · 22-11-2007 16:22

I'm in way agreeing with the OP, but it might help if SI made available a tactic which would prove once and for all that tactical tweaks prevent this problem.

**This field intentionally left blank** · 22-11-2007 16:25

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">English Premier Division
---------------
Games played 380
Goals per match 2.39
Shots per match 23.32
Shots on target per match 12.31 (53%) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd be interested to see these stats broken down by player position.

**earmack** · 22-11-2007 16:27

Edit: sorry I had one player who scored from basically every chance he had but that was FM05 one of the most ludicrous games I've ever played(I loved it at the time but Jesus if I had to play that again I'd kill myself because it took surrealism to new limits, Exhibit A being said player single handedly taking apart every team in the world, Exhibit B being Liverpool winning the premiership for 17 season in a row until I won it and they promptly got relegated the next season).

**Feltus** · 22-11-2007 17:05

Agrees with Fred.

Almost every game I have like 3-4 times more shots than my opponent, and I aint winning, thats for sure..

Seem to have this problem only when im playing attacking football with quick tempo..

Anyone else who can confirm the same?

Feltus

**Fred_the_Red** · 22-11-2007 17:09

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ackter:
Fred, creating 30 chances doesn't really mean that much as it's the quality of those chances that count. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know but I have 3 or 4 sitters. I mean I create 20 chances per game on average. Lets say half of those were wasted long shots.

I still have 10 decent shots on goal. 3 or 4 of them are one on ones, 6 yards shots that players like Rooney, Pato, Podolski, Fernandez should score from.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PaulC:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Basically this closing down and long shot bug is what is causing everyone to have 20 shots on goal but only resulting in 1 or 2 goals scored </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dont really understand how you come to that conclusion. Firstly the closing down bug is fixed, and secondly I am not aware of any proven "long shot bug" in any version of FM2008.

I cant comment further on your examples without viewing the actual matches.

However stats from a one season PL test I ran before it was released using patch code showed the following:

English Premier Division
---------------
Games played 380
Goals per match 2.39
Shots per match 23.32
Shots on target per match 12.31 (53%)

Cheers,
Paul </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well from what I can see, the reason for a high number of shots is from players shooting from distance and players not closing them down. They just shoot from situations where they can either pass to someone who free on the wing or making runs forward. Shooting aimlessly outside of the box trying to score.

If you take a look at these games I posted you will see that I have my MCa on long shots set to rarely. Yet he takes 6-8 shots from outside of the box. Ive followed suggestion of toning down the creative freedom which I have to the point where its 2 notche before normal and it still happens. http://community.sigames.com/eve/for...1/m/4982071363

I will upload games for you give for to anlayse. You should get them tomorrow morning.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ackter:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hairy Coo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Get better players making the shots or change your tactics </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now thats advice which covers all bases </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In this case the second part is almmost certainly correct.
Sure the creative part of his team is working well, but there's obviously a problem in the final third.

I'm going to guess that he's being too attacking, and too up-tempo. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Like I said before my fowards are these Rooney, Pato, Podolski, Fernandez at the peak of their career age 24,25,26,27. I can't get any better players then those really.

I dont think I play a high tempo game or if there are anything wrong with my tactics.
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/4...aaaaaaasv3.jpg

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ackter:
Fred, none of the threads you've linked to have any sort of statistical data backing up what they're saying. It's basically just rants based on losing matches.

If you can provide proper objective stats to back up your claims then please do so. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My god I have stats up inthe first post that says 30 shots, 20 on target 1 goal scored.
http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/8...westhambn2.jpg
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/1...qweqeqeqy8.jpg
http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/8...aaaaaaaqt2.jpg

There like 10 examples there and one the first post I posted 4 treads about people with the same problem.

Heres another
http://community.sigames.com/eve/for...1/m/4072091363

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sweed:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fred_the_Red:

The game somehow stops me from scoring easy goals and preventing me winning matches I should have won.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow, just wow. That's got to be the post of the year, too funny. If you are not winning it is something YOU are doing, it's not the game going out of it's way to cheat you. When I lose a match I may yell at my monitor or curse my bad luck but then I go back and try to figure out what I could have done better instead of blaming the coding of the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am winning 90% of my games but my players have to create 30 chances to score 1 or 2 goals.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ackter:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nojanana:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">and secondly I am not aware of any proven "long shot bug" in any version of FM2008. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
oh dear, even the ppl in charge are in denial now!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Prove him wrong, then. There's a bugs forum and FTP available to you for this purpose. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fcuk sakes Ackter why you acting like there is no problem with longs shots. Like I said I believe the closing down is link. Players down close down therefore allowing long shots to take place. I admit it has been tone down but still seems to be here.

You want more examples..... here

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9482076...122062653#2122062653
http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9482076...712090063#7712090063
http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9482076...822019353#2822019353
http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9482076...172095953#2172095953
http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9482076...762003953#2762003953
http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9482076...482006453#7482006453
http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9482076...222019943#6222019943
http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9482076...222019943#6222019943
http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9482076...152004653#8152004653
http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1519717...162087471#9162087471
http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1519717...562018902#9562018902
http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1519717...412093021#5412093021

**--b--** · 22-11-2007 17:10

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SlayerX:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by buckfast:
lol. Your name is "Cameron Kwong" what a stupid name </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was below-the-belt. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes. harsh but fair.

**Myros** · 22-11-2007 17:12

OK here's a real world stat for comparison:

Team Man City (season so far)-
Games played 13
Goals 15
shots : on target 75
shots : off target 63

Another random stat (season so far):
Games played 13
Manchester United have had most Shots On Target (49), most Shots Off Target (55), most Shots Per Goal. (26.00) and most Corners (51)

See the 26 shots per goal stat? ;p

M

**woody2goody** · 22-11-2007 17:22

""Like I said before my fowards are these Rooney, Pato, Podolski, Fernandez at the peak of their career age 24,25,26,27.""

This must mean that you haven't started a new game with that patch because you couldn't have played through 3 seasons THAT quickly?

If you did correct me but if you haven't maybe you need to start a new game for the full effects of the patch to work correctly.

**vasilli07** · 22-11-2007 18:06

I am one of the few who complained about the long shot bug after beta patch 1.

After patching, i had lesser long shots even though when i increase my player creativity, i like it the way as it is.

If SI tweaked the shots to goal ratio, wouldn't we get high scoring games more(which some peeps complained about) and maybe some ridiculous scoreline at the end of the day?

Finally, if SI tweaked it, i believe some peeps will complained they have world class attacking players but do not have more shots more than their opponents.

**This field intentionally left blank** · 22-11-2007 18:39

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If SI tweaked the shots to goal ratio, wouldn't we get high scoring games more(which some peeps complained about) and maybe some ridiculous scoreline at the end of the day? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe they could reduce the number of shots. Its the defending that needs to improve not the shot/goal ratio.

**Ackter** · 22-11-2007 18:41

The number of shots during AI v AI games is pretty much perfect, it's when you get humans interacting with the match engine and doing weird things that the stats start to go off-kilter.

**ifllorescu** · 22-11-2007 19:03

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ackter:
The number of shots during AI v AI games is pretty much perfect, it's when you get humans interacting with the match engine and doing weird things that the stats start to go off-kilter. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is just stupid man. I do not care about AI games. I care about my games. I play them.

And yeah I think 90% of the people are complaining because it is really hard to set a tactic and continue to win with it. You change something (actually anything) and you will win several (read 2-3 games). Then somehow the computer player adapts and your tactic doesn't work anymore. That is frustrating. I have a Ph.D. and i do not want to do fake research in a fantasy world every 3 games. I do enough of that in real life. I play this game to have fun. In fact the reason I like this game is that I can watch a real game and play it in a window next to it.

I hoped the patch would make things easier but it still seems that once you lose two three games your whole season spirals out of control.

**Chris_483** · 22-11-2007 19:13

It's absolutely ridiculous. How many one-on-one chances against a sh*t keeper do you need to score when you have 18 finishing 17 composure. Yes Marlon King failed to score one one-on-one in 11 one-on-one situations. And I wont even bother listing how many times Haynes and Doudin have spurned one-on-ones with there high finishing and composure against useless keepers.

**Ackter** · 22-11-2007 19:16

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ifllorescu:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ackter:
The number of shots during AI v AI games is pretty much perfect, it's when you get humans interacting with the match engine and doing weird things that the stats start to go off-kilter. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is just stupid man. I do not care about AI games. I care about my games. I play them.

And yeah I think 90% of the people are complaining because it is really hard to set a tactic and continue to win with it. You change something (actually anything) and you will win several (read 2-3 games). Then somehow the computer player adapts and your tactic doesn't work anymore. That is frustrating. I have a Ph.D. and i do not want to do fake research in a fantasy world every 3 games. I do enough of that in real life. I play this game to have fun. In fact the reason I like this game is that I can watch a real game and play it in a window next to it.

I hoped the patch would make things easier but it still seems that once you lose two three games your whole season spirals out of control. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

FM has pretty much always been about creating a self-sustaining football world that a human user can take part in. Get the AI numbers right is incredibly important.

The other important thing, which is not at acceptable levels yet imo, is the feedback that the user is given by the AI world. We need to know how the world of football works - FM may not work exactly like the real world, but it's the FM world we need to understand. The game should be giving us a lot more information.

For example, take Fred here. If he could click a button called "tactical analyser" and then be given a few hints and tips about what might be going wrong, and what might be going right, he'd then be in a much better position to get his tactics working as he wants them to.

**This field intentionally left blank** · 22-11-2007 19:44

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The number of shots during AI v AI games is pretty much perfect, it's when you get humans interacting with the match engine and doing weird things that the stats start to go off-kilter. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So SI have produce a game that can't be played by humans!

ROTLFMAO!!!!!!!!

**This field intentionally left blank** · 22-11-2007 19:55

I'm sorry this is the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard. Its like the bus company that instructed their buses not to stop to pick up passengers if they were behind schedule (true story). When questioned about this they said "well, we had to do this to keep to the schedule. Picking up passengers just slows the buses down".

Talk about losing the plot.

**Caesarius** · 22-11-2007 20:01

Too many text walls.
I also remember Fred been warned on these forums.
Im out of this thread.

**Ackter** · 22-11-2007 20:09

Ah, so you're just planning on intentionally missing the point? Or are you seriously struggling to see the logic of it?

**Vazlerm** · 22-11-2007 20:57

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fred_the_Red:
My forwards are far from crap so it cant be my players.
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/2...eqeqeqewx1.jpg

My tactic works because I create 30 chances.

The game somehow stops me from scoring easy goals and preventing me winning matches I should have won.

It's not one offs. Its every game I play. My screen shots prove this
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/3343/asadadadqs4.jpg
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/6...6666666iu7.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There does seem to be a bug, its more of an inability to really look at stats bug though.

Everyone I hear complaining just keeps coming out with "I had 30 shots and I didnt win" yet funnily enough, I dont hear you stating how many shots on target your best striker had and how many of those he converted.

So of those 30 shots, how many were on target? of those how many fell to players feet who had good finishing + composure? how many came off the head of people who had crap heading? how many were long shots from someone with awful long shooting?

Seriously, provide proper data or just stop complaining.

**JordanC** · 22-11-2007 22:06

<yawn> <yawn> <yawn>

How many individual posts can be made on the same subject?!?!?

I almost want to suggest people upload and send me their complete saved game for me to use. There is no distinct bug with this in the game!

**Bumface** · 22-11-2007 22:37

Fred Mate,you will NEVER see a fix for this, as it is the only way the game can cope with its own weakness's.

It started out as a "Super Tactic" stopper, but now its so easy to put together a dominant tactic that its implementation is nescasary in order to keep the absolutely horrificly weak match engine together.

**ivod** · 22-11-2007 22:41

i'd be pretty ****ed if this wasn't a friendly

**Vazlerm** · 22-11-2007 22:52

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ivod:
i'd be pretty ****ed if this wasn't a friendly </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ffs you had 13 shots on target, big wow! But as with all the others, you havent bothered supplying the stats sheet. Come on lets see which players had those 13 shots on target.

Im not going to repeat myself over and over, so read this cos its the last time I will write it...
You need to look at who is getting the shots, you need to look at if those on target are headers from people with crap heading, long shots from people with crap long shots, just any shot from people with no finishing or composure.

I bet if you put every single player in your team on to rarely do long shots, you would be a much happier person if your extent of looking at stats is to just check shots and nothing more.

**Vymrr** · 22-11-2007 23:28

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ivod:
i'd be pretty ****ed if this wasn't a friendly </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I had an exact same situation with ManU in a friendly game with some mediocre club. Lots of shots, some on target and ALL of them shot wide or above the post like some Under18 kiddy striker (and those shots were taken by Rooney and Tevez - missing 1-on-1s and clear-cut chances against lousy GKs? I don't think so).

1 or 2 of these missed shots is fine - but 4 or 5 of them? I think what SI did is what Bumface said, although I do think that this issue CAN be fixed by SI.

**themavsman** · 22-11-2007 23:54

I am getting exactly the same problems, averaging about 30 shots on goal and only 1 and 2 goals to show for it

.

**Fred_the_Red** · 23-11-2007 01:17

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Vazlerm:
There does seem to be a bug, its more of an inability to really look at stats bug though.

Everyone I hear complaining just keeps coming out with "I had 30 shots and I didnt win" yet funnily enough, I dont hear you stating how many shots on target your best striker had and how many of those he converted.

So of those 30 shots, how many were on target? of those how many fell to players feet who had good finishing + composure? how many came off the head of people who had crap heading? how many were long shots from someone with awful long shooting?

Seriously, provide proper data or just stop complaining. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you bothered reading through this thread and actually looking at the thread links I provided you will see my stats and others stats posted. There are 10 examples which someohow you missed and only come in here complaining no one posts stats.

http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/8...westhambn2.jpg
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/1...qweqeqeqy8.jpg
http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/8...aaaaaaaqt2.jpg

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bumface:
Fred Mate,you will NEVER see a fix for this, as it is the only way the game can cope with its own weakness's.

It started out as a "Super Tactic" stopper, but now its so easy to put together a dominant tactic that its implementation is nescasary in order to keep the absolutely horrificly weak match engine together. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know in some ways I do accept it that every tactic I build I create 30 chances, 20 shots on goal, but results in 1 or 2 goals. I think now with the patch that has fixed or reduced bugs I cant ask for a more near perfect game really. Its not worth me complaining, moaning or requesting for another patch. I guess I just have to carry on and finally start a proper career within the game now. It's been more then then a month since purchased.

**Jimbokav1971** · 23-11-2007 01:41

Fred. I'm reserving judgement on the patch until I have played it more, but I can see this from both sides and I have a suggestion.

A lot of the people who have an opposing view to you want you to back up your comments with stats. When they say stats they don't want just the stats of 1 game, they want the stats for a season.

Now I know that to compile stull like this is pretty onerous but you obviously spend a fair bit of time playing the game so it would seem to make sense.

I would create a "statto sheet" and mould it to your most common formations.

SC1
Total shots.
Total goals.
Total shots on target.
Total shots on target in 6 yard box.
Total shots on target centrally in pen area.
Total shots on target wide in penalty area.
Total shots on target outside box.
Total shots off target.
Total shots off target in 6 yard box.
Total shots off target centrally in pen area.
Total shots off target wide in penalty area.
Total shots off target outside box.

I know that you could compile this, even if you only compiled info on shots that were shown in key highligts or however you watch the game.

Compile a stats sheet in advance and just use a tally system as the game progresses.

I would love you to prove this either way

.

**UELLfan** · 23-11-2007 01:41

Sure my strikers and wingers sometimes do rush their shots and don't take their time to have a better shot/goal ratio.

Sure my central midfielders do the odd long shot here and now when the oposition manmarks my striker and covers my wingers.

However, I do tinker my tactics ingame or change my setpieces to try and open space when the result is not acceptable.

If I manage to get a lead I'll change my tactics and defend it and, oh wonder of wonders, when the oposition come at me I find more spaces and more cut clear chances and we sometimes score from those counters.

I can't back it up with data now as I'm at work but I'd say we do have a 55% shot on target ratio and a 25-30% goal/shots on goal ratio.

**Vazlerm** · 23-11-2007 01:46

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fred_the_Red:

If you bothered reading through this thread and actually looking at the thread links I provided you will see my stats and others stats posted. There are 10 examples which someohow you missed and only come in here complaining no one posts stats.

http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/8...westhambn2.jpg
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/1...qweqeqeqy8.jpg
http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/8...aaaaaaaqt2.jpg
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you for real? ROFL
Ok lets break this down for you because you really are not very bright are you.

http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/8...westhambn2.jpg

Anderson had an awful game, just look at his 5 rating. Plus he only had 3 shots on target, and you expect a goal from that? from someone having a very bad game?

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/1...qweqeqeqy8.jpg

Ok so he had one great game where he had 5 on target and managed to score 2 goals? What is the problem? There are few strikers in the world who would complain about that ratio, but considering Anderson is an AMC that is fantastic.
Then he had another awful game and failed to score from 8 shots on target. But again, he had a 5 rating, he was playing like crap and you expect him to be scoring them?

What you seem to be failing to realise is this... Anderson is a midfielder! So even with long shots on rarely, I guarantee more often than not his shots are not close range.

Your final screenshot...
http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/8...aaaaaaaqt2.jpg

Doesnt really prove very much either. Your strikers, when given chances, are getting goals.

You lost against everton because the only natural finisher that was playing well was Rooney and he scored.

You lost against valencia because your team were playing crap.

And your obviously not very bright, because you have Rooney as your captain.

A player can have the best stats in the game and it wont mean a thing if they are playing badly. Its no different than in RL, dont matter how good many of the england players are rated as individuals, they played crap as a team and therefor did not perform and failed to even qualify for euro 2008. Fix whats making them perform so badly, whether it be lack of support, poor formation, bad tactics or not liking the positions your playing them in, or whatever the problem is.

**chopper99** · 23-11-2007 01:49

Ahh, here we go again.

There's no denying that there is a problem, but it's certainly not the problem everyone keeps saying it is.

The thing that makes me laugh is people saying 'it's not my tactics because I have 30 shots every game'. In real life any team can go out and have 30 shots on goal, that doesn't mean they're going to win anything.

The simple fact is if you're having this problem at all then you need to accept that it is down to the way you've set your tactics up. Unfortunately this is fact, simply because there are plenty of us who don't have this problem.

But that doesn't mean there isn't a problem and Akter's summed up perfectly what the real problem actually is. Feedback, or lack of it to be precise.
The fact is that many people are still in FM05 mode where you just needed to go really attacking and have lots of shots to win a game. The fact is that playing very attacking doesn't really work anymore, you need a more balanced tactic. Due to the inability of the match engine to represent the quality of chances just looking at how many shots you had is no way to measure success of a tactic. Results are what determine the success of a tactic. If you're not getting results you're not using a good enough tactic.

But how are people supposed to know this? And more importantly how are they supposed to know why their tactic isn't working? Simple fact is that it's currently quite difficult to figure out where your tactic's going wrong and therefor very difficult to know what needs to be done about it. Until we get some form of analysis tool or better feedback then this problem will remain and these types of threads will continue.

I suggest looking at the results you get with your tactic as your first yard stick as to whether it's working properly. And I also suggest using this forum to push SI to provide feedback and tactical analysis in the next game so that we have the tools to help us understand the tactical interfact in the same way AI managers do.

**pauly15** · 23-11-2007 01:56

i've had a lot of problems scoring but not from too many shots- if you get your tactics right the game works fine.

I was having a problem with poor striker performance (6's and not scoring despite CL quality players) which i thought was the game, I posted my issues here and discussed some things with a helpful poster in the forums and now the system is providing great results.

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5211026...232004263#4232004263

**djdji** · 23-11-2007 02:12

well. i have to say that the number of missed or saved 1 on 1 chances is a bit unrealistic..if my striker goes 1 on 1 three times in a match it would be reasonable that he scores at least one goal with finishing 19..
but what bothers me more is that it is unbelivably hard to get that second goal to finish off the opponent..i'm playing with man city and i'm playing some nice football..so i score one goal and then my players are continuing with the pressure,they create chances but that second goal is almost inpossible to score ant finish off the game..i've played 19 games in premiership so far and i've won 9 and out of them i've won 1-0 in six of them, playing really good but the second goal is so hard to score..
in beta patch there was normal that when playing against a poor opponent you would score at least 2 or 3 goals and win comfortably but now it is too hard..even in home games you have to bite your nails against a poor team...which is unrealistic,let's be honest..
otherwise, the match engine looks great and the game is much faster so big up for that..

**Jimbokav1971** · 23-11-2007 02:13

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Are you for real? ROFL
Ok lets break this down for you because you really are not very bright are you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Vazlerm. You might very well have had a very valid point.

Unfortunately, many posters including myself simply stop reading after that line

.

**Vazlerm** · 23-11-2007 02:27

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jimbokav1971:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Are you for real? ROFL
Ok lets break this down for you because you really are not very bright are you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Vazlerm. You might very well have had a very valid point.

Unfortunately, many posters including myself simply stop reading after that line

. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And that is your choice, but funnily enough you saw fit to read thru the posts of someone saying "why should I have to fix a tactic that gives me 30 shots" and great lines like "its Â£24.99 of my hard earned money"

This is just one of many threads with people complaining about shots vs goals, but not providing full data. When he did, it pretty much showed what I was expecting. Strikers with shots on target playing well were scoring goals, and the ones not scoring were midfielders who were not playing well anyway. Then he even backed up my point by showing Anderson, an AMC, getting 2 goals from 5 shots on target in the one game he played well.

I am getting bored of saying it, but it still remains true. Shots mean nothing when you dont look at who is having the shots, from where, with what stats, are they playing well, etc, etc. But the ones complaining are the ones who are not looking at all the factors

Agenteusa · 23-11-2007 02:38

Hi everyone,

I was playing with Arsenal and had a good 1st season. I'm starting my 2nd season and already won the first cup(canÂ´t remember name, sorry).

I really don't think the game has any problems and in fact it's even better after I installed 8.0.1 patch over the beta one.

I just think sometimes people that complain forget the basics of football and how uncertain the sport really is. If FM behaved like people wanted, and like the example we had Pato, Tevez and I don't know Henry, Ronaldinho, KakÃ¡, probably you would win almost everytime, but in real life we had examples (Real Madrid) that a dream team has sometimes more problems than a well based and consistent team.

You know, these things(and refering to FM now) like morale, personality, general happiness, tactics(like someone said creating chances means nothing if you shoot from 30 metres, as my club Benfica actually does...

) are all part of the game and should be taken in consideration.The games isn't all about buying the best players and then just throwing them on field and expect everything goes well.

Lastly watch a full match in 2d or preferably 2 just to sort how your team is playing and where the errors are coming from because you can have the best players even on defense but if your team balance is very offensive you probably will have problems on counters specially if opposing team has fast forwards. Watch the training too...

Sorry for the long post...

**come on ragusa!** · 23-11-2007 02:53

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NickBlues:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fred_the_Red:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NickBlues:
fix your tactics

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why should I fix a working tactic that creates 30 shots on goal??? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

did you score 30 goals? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Silly you! You must have forgotten to tick that 'make sure you score when you shoot' box in the tactics screen.

**Myros** · 23-11-2007 03:00

Personaly I watch to much football ;p And there is not a week goes by where I dont see players doing idiotic things that must make there real life managers bang there head on a wall. The fact that people come in here frustrated may be an indication that SI got things pretty close to right on

**Fred_the_Red** · 23-11-2007 03:05

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jimbokav1971:

I would create a "statto sheet" and mould it to your most common formations.

SC1
Total shots.
Total goals.
Total shots on target.
Total shots on target in 6 yard box.
Total shots on target centrally in pen area.
Total shots on target wide in penalty area.
Total shots on target outside box.
Total shots off target.
Total shots off target in 6 yard box.
Total shots off target centrally in pen area.
Total shots off target wide in penalty area.
Total shots off target outside box.

I know that you could compile this, even if you only compiled info on shots that were shown in key highligts or however you watch the game.

Compile a stats sheet in advance and just use a tally system as the game progresses.

I would love you to prove this either way

. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Someone is already documenting this in the bugs forum. I dont think I have time to write and anyalse stats like that to be honest.

http://community.sigames.com/eve/for...3/m/6682090363

I have already toned down tactics alot since I first started. Most of my attacking players instructions are two or three notches from the middle (Normal) so i cant really take it anymore back. I will tone down creative freedom further and attacing men and play a game of simular to liverpool. But other then that I cant see anything wrong with my tactics. I won FA cups and league cups with it. Just that I see my players missing sitters most of the time and working extra hard creating chances only to miss them.

**kelveen** · 23-11-2007 03:08

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Myros:
Personaly I watch to much football ;p And there is not a week goes by where I dont see players doing idiotic things that must make there real life managers bang there head on a wall. The fact that people come in here frustrated may be an indication that SI got things pretty close to right on

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The most logical and brilliant post so far.

**Stian1234** · 23-11-2007 03:20

Isn't 1 goal per 10 chances pretty much what is the "accepted" chance-2-goal ratio?

I can remember the former Norwegian and Wimbledon manager Egil "Drillo" Olsen (currently managing Iraq) saying so back in the day.

**NepentheZ** · 23-11-2007 06:29

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Myros:
OK here's a real world stat for comparison:

Team Man City (season so far)-
Games played 13
Goals 15
shots : on target 75
shots : off target 63

Another random stat (season so far):
Games played 13
Manchester United have had most Shots On Target (49), most Shots Off Target (55), most Shots Per Goal. (26.00) and most Corners (51)

See the 26 shots per goal stat? ;p

M </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Like i told you in the other thread...

How can Man U have 'had the most shots on target (49)' yet in the example above, Man City have had 75 on target. Go figure.

Im not getting into this debate AGAIN. I have done in a few threads, and decided to do something about it. So I did.

This is what i came up with

Its posted in the bugs forum, and basically im attempting so firgure out if the computer shows an unfair bias toward AI when shooting, and away from the human manager, which is exactly what i thought it would do.

To my suprise, and indeed delight, i was wrong, and after my current findings (all be it only a few games of many to be studied), the game seems to be showing a bias toward the HUMAN MANAGER.

Yes, we can see plenty of examples where its the other way, but from many peoples games, we are bound to see many examples.

Im still on the fence, as within my FM gaming time i have noticed this a lot, but im starting to feel its because i overlook the times it goes the other way. I Urge you guys to follow my bug thread, as you will be very suprised at what the full outcome will be.

**Jam Man** · 23-11-2007 07:04

Personally I think theres a problem where some tactics produce too many chances, either scoreable ones or not.

The tactics I use produce very realistic amounts of chances and goals ratio but thats not to say playing one man up front or some other tactical setting isnt producing odd results.

**Jam Man** · 23-11-2007 07:08

PS Coincidentally, or maybe not, but NepentheZ
you seem to be playing one up front....

**NepentheZ** · 23-11-2007 07:27

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jam Man:
PS Coincidentally, or maybe not, but NepentheZ
you seem to be playing one up front.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Does it make that much of a difference? If people think it does, After the current experiment ends, i'd be happy to do it with a standard 4-4-2 aswell.

**spongebob_squarepants** · 23-11-2007 07:27

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Feltus:
Agrees with Fred.

Almost every game I have like 3-4 times more shots than my opponent, and I aint winning, thats for sure..

Seem to have this problem only when im playing attacking football with quick tempo..

Anyone else who can confirm the same?

Feltus </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is a very good point, i had this problem playing a very attacking mentatlity and quick tempo, i have noticed when i tone down the tempo my shots on target ratio increases also by reducing the Attacking mentality the amount of chances drops but the ratio of goals to shots also increased. When you think about it it does make sense to some degree. However surely the players descision/anticipation/tecnique attributes should be taken into account. So i could understand this happening with some of the teams i have managed i.e MK Dons, Brentford and Sparta Rotterdam, however i would expect players like Rooney, Henry et al to make more of their chances even when playing a more attacking, quick tempo game otherwise whats the point of having a quick tempo/attcking option if it doesn't work. It's not like the 2 options would be incompatible it's how a lot of the top teams would play i.e ManYoo, Barc to name just 2.

**black 'n amber tiger** · 23-11-2007 07:29

How many of these so called 'shots' actually have a chance of going in the back of the net?

u · 23-11-2007 07:32

did you people even start a new game? I dont know about you, but i started a chelsea game right after the patch, and i dont seem to have a shots to goal ratio issue. it is surely improved after the patch.

**George Graham** · 23-11-2007 07:32

Devils advocate here- I suggest that counter attacking, backs to the wall football is far to effective.

Thats how Ive played and I my goals scored/conceded ration is 2.7 to 0.6.

Every season I have been rated as a relegation candidate as well- I appreciate that tactics are important but do feel that player ability is far too secondary to the tactical side.

Not that I want it to swing entirely towards the players ability but imo a middle ground needs to be found.

**Jam Man** · 23-11-2007 07:48

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NepentheZ:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jam Man:
PS Coincidentally, or maybe not, but NepentheZ
you seem to be playing one up front.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Does it make that much of a difference? If people think it does, After the current experiment ends, i'd be happy to do it with a standard 4-4-2 aswell. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No idea.

Hardly dont any investigations, but Ive looked at 2 examples so far and both were using one up front, plus the only unrealistic game Ive seen on mine was with one up front.

Could well be co-incidence but you might want to try a test game with a standard 442 tactic just to see what difference it makes over 10 games or so.

**Jam Man** · 23-11-2007 07:54

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by George Graham:
I appreciate that tactics are important but do feel that player ability is far too secondary to the tactical side.

Not that I want it to swing entirely towards the players ability but imo a middle ground needs to be found. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes I agree with that.

In all versions of CM/FM getting the winning tactic has always felt more important than the players you buy, although they obviously play a part.

Very hard to get the balance right.

**Moverman98** · 23-11-2007 07:57

change your tactic

**Maviarab** · 23-11-2007 07:58

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Its Â£24.99 of my hard earn money that Ive payed and not been able to play since I first purchased it (October). Waited and waited for weeks and weeks for a decent patch to fix things. But still unable to play. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ive been playing it since day one...no probs.

Also, to have a go at another moaner...if you bought a car...and the glove box was a little loose...would you not drive the car until your dealer could fix it? Even though you paid for it with your 'hard earned money'

Don't be so damn theatrical, play the game, enjoy it, and stop posting dumb comments please.

**Rich_Millers** · 23-11-2007 08:23

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Maviarab:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Its Â£24.99 of my hard earn money that Ive payed and not been able to play since I first purchased it (October). Waited and waited for weeks and weeks for a decent patch to fix things. But still unable to play. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ive been playing it since day one...no probs.

Also, to have a go at another moaner...if you bought a car...and the glove box was a little loose...would you not drive the car until your dealer could fix it? Even though you paid for it with your 'hard earned money'

Don't be so damn theatrical, play the game, enjoy it, and stop posting dumb comments please. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What a silly comparison.

more like if you bought a car with your hard earned money and the exhaust fell off, or the clutch broke, would u take it back. I'm sure i would.

**NepentheZ** · 23-11-2007 10:51

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Moverman98:
change your tactic </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good input.

And i have to agree with Rich here. If you had a dodgy glove box, you would get it fixed when you had the time. But if you had a major fault, you would get it fixed instantly. Taking nothing away from SI, as they have done the job to the best of thier ability, but the comparison was abstract.

**neilb242** · 23-11-2007 11:03

I've had more than one game where when the first goal went in for a team, it said 0 shots on goal.

However, I shrugged my shoulders, and concentrated on how to get a goal back or get another. no good just moaning about it since it already happened.

I'm finding the game very difficult, but I always do till I find the tactic that makes everything click. But this game is the best management game out there. If you disagree, then try a different one?

**NepentheZ** · 23-11-2007 11:07

The 0 shots could be and own goal. Or a cross thats gone in, or a missplaced pass that made its way past the keeper.

On my life, i once won a game in FM06 3-0 without having a single shot.

**NeilUK** · 23-11-2007 11:07

They are all like Premiership managers complaining after a defeat. I notice no-one complains that the computer teams miss too many chances! Always that their team does, if you are losing, improve your players, training, tactics etc
The "long shot bug" has never existed at all, the closing down certainly has been fixed in my game. I have examples of games where I have 1 chance and win 1-0, and examples of 20 shots and lose 1-2 for instance. In other words, realistic!

**tubbycrabs** · 23-11-2007 11:21

The problem affects both the user and AI controlled teams. If you watch any top AI teams playing against a much worse team, you'll notice that their forwards miss the same kind of chances that the user forwards do.

There's no bias towards the AI at all, just against teams that are creating crazy amounts of chances.

This is the problem.

Top quality players clean through on goal, with time and space, do NOT consistently miss multiple chances in matches. Maybe 1 match in 15, yes, but not every game they play in.

Who'd want a player in their team up front who keeps missing 5 clear cut chances a match? They wouldn't last long at any club.

The match engine needs tweaking so that it's not so simple to devise a tactic that creates ridiculous amounts of easy chances. If this doesn't happen, then the game is going to continue showing players missing these easy chances so the scores can be kept at a reasonable level.

**fgu82** · 23-11-2007 11:37

With all due respect, I believe this is a problem arising from the coding of the game.

Of course it doesn't mean that you will win a game if you have more than 20 shots. It is about quality, not quantity (e.g., use players with good finishing, long shots and composure to take the shots). However, this is exactly what I am doing and my players are not obeying me. I specifically tell my wingers to take long shots very rarely yet more than half of the team's shoots come from those two, who have shooting around 14 and so I don't score that often. At this stage, it is not about tactics, not about me knowing how to play FM08 or not, but it is certainly about an error in the game. If the players are not following spesific player instructions, there is not much left to do here.

Sorry guys, the patch is great but with one major error!

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Thread: Patch 8.0.1. Shots to Goal Ratio not fixed - SHOCKING!! SI Please answer - believe to be related to Closing down and Long shots bug

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