*Results from the Football Manager 2008 survey*

Here are links to the results from the survey!

PDF-version

JPEG versions from Photobucket. Link leads to first picture in a "slide-show" form.

The PDF file is of course good for saving the survey results to your hard drive, while the pictures on photobucket are good if you want a quick look and also if you want a link to include a specific "slide" in one of your posts for discussion.

If you want any additional details like for example filtering results by a single answer (I for example just ran a test on when the people who say they won't be buying FM2009 started playing the game) post in here and I'll try to post the stats. I'll be going away for a few hours now, but I'll have a look when I return home.

Enjoy!

Here are links to the results from the survey!

PDF-version

JPEG versions from Photobucket. Link leads to first picture in a "slide-show" form.

The PDF file is of course good for saving the survey results to your hard drive, while the pictures on photobucket are good if you want a quick look and also if you want a link to include a specific "slide" in one of your posts for discussion.

If you want any additional details like for example filtering results by a single answer (I for example just ran a test on when the people who say they won't be buying FM2009 started playing the game) post in here and I'll try to post the stats. I'll be going away for a few hours now, but I'll have a look when I return home.

Enjoy!

Interesting reading. Well done.

Great work there mate

Thanks for taking the time to do this Dane0.

There did seem alot more positive replies than negative.

It was interesting to see how few people are planning on buying the FM Live game.

Good survey, quite suprised at somr of the results though.

*some

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KK2003:

It was interesting to see how few people are planning on buying the FM Live game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Truly a bizarre business decision on behalf of S.I.

Who has time for that?

XboX360 users have an attention span of less than 5 minutes at the best of times.

Its just absurd in concept, impractical and since the standalone game has so many unresolved gameplay issues and ..well .. bugs it doesn't surprise me one bit nobody is interested.

S.I. need to focus on their bread and butter imho.

Hilarious how many people took the effort to say they had no opinion at all lol.

Surprised that the Media Interaction is by far the most vilified aspect, yet the Match Engine was voted most in need of improvement.

Incredibly surprised at the amount of people who think the International Management bits are good. Wow. Unbelievable.

But, and this is the key, the proof of why FM08 was such a 0.000001 incremental update on 07 is proven by the volume of negative responsed yet nearly everyone will buy the next one.

When you're #1, why try harder? (to paraphrase the Fatboy Slim cover)

VB

Yeah I seriously question a survey that asks a specific question then gives you the option of offering no opinion.

Its like saying, 'which is better: Left or Right?' and then adding a box for 'indecisive, desperate not to offend, low self esteem: dunno'.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gubbs:

Yeah I seriously question a survey that asks a specific question then gives you the option of offering no opinion. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Every survey needs a "no opinion" box. To cover the people who don't use an aspect of something, or the item in question is so average that neither good nor poor is justifiable. It would be invalid without one.

As an analyse:

_we can see that a patch is better than no patch.

_Also there hasn't been a big improve from 077 to 08.

_ most people don't care about the skin (that's a good thing because there are more important elements)

_ FM keeps standing ahead when it comes to database acuurate

_ people are dissapointed with media option

_ regen system could better but id not bad

_ People (40%) are clearly wanting an update for the match engine

_ no difficulty methods nor 3D

Nice work BTW

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VonBlade:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gubbs:

Yeah I seriously question a survey that asks a specific question then gives you the option of offering no opinion. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Every survey needs a "no opinion" box. To cover the people who don't use an aspect of something, or the item in question is so average that neither good nor poor is justifiable. It would be invalid without one. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then all you survey is that half of all respondents have no personality whatsoever.

Result.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gubbs:

S.I. need to focus on their bread and butter imho. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Those chargeable games are bringing the bread and butter to their breakfast table to eat...

Some very weird results in that survey contrasting very much the picture I've got from these forums. Of course more people will complain than praise, but there were so many say, complaining about the default skin and yet the opinnion in the survey seems to be that most liked it. I don't undervalue anybody's opinnions but I hope that people who are judging things have good judgement skills. Too many are only naive and can't understand wider points of view, and aren't strong enough to criticise themselves or things they like.

I don't have a problem with those who enjoy the game but it bugs me that they won't have room and understanding for those who don't have that much fun. I hope it doesn't affect too much to the development if casual gamers who don't demand that much are liking it and are unable to spot flaws, and then more demanding people would be ignored as most can't see if something is wrong, so that would make the game "good". And I think that SI can be the first to agree that people are right to demand more as it could be possible to give more, and they would be more than happy to give that much more which would silence even the greatest critics. No bigger a critic than the creator itself usually, which is good.

I wouldn't be very proud if I made art and mass people liked it without understanding anything, and people who understood something didn't held it in very high regard. Again, I don't say that people who like FM are dumb but some settle for less and some don't. Let those satisfied ones play and make the game better for the unsatisfied .

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jopo12:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gubbs:

S.I. need to focus on their bread and butter imho. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Those chargeable games are bringing the bread and butter to their breakfast table to eat...

Some very weird results in that survey contrasting very much the picture I've got from these forums. Of course more people will complain than praise, but there were so many say, complaining about the default skin and yet the opinnion in the survey seems to be that most liked it. I don't undervalue anybody's opinnions but I hope that people who are judging things have good judgement skills. Too many are only naive and can't understand wider points of view, and aren't strong enough to criticise themselves or things they like.

I don't have a problem with those who enjoy the game but it bugs me that they won't have room and understanding for those who don't have that much fun. I hope it doesn't affect too much to the development if casual gamers who don't demand that much are liking it and are unable to spot flaws, and then more demanding people would be ignored as most can't see if something is wrong, so that would make the game "good". And I think that SI can be the first to agree that people are right to demand more as it could be possible to give more, and they would be more than happy to give that much more which would silence even the greatest critics. No bigger a critic than the creator itself usually, which is good.

I wouldn't be very proud if I made art and mass people liked it without understanding anything, and people who understood something didn't held it in very high regard. Again, I don't say that people who like FM are dumb but some settle for less and some don't. Let those satisfied ones play and make the game better for the unsatisfied . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's life ..

You are always going to find the vast majority of everyone to be witless, unimaginative, under educated, judgemental, shallow, incompetent, opinionated, unqualfied monkeys.

Asking them what they think is pointless; largely why nobody lends any credence whatsoever to quantitative opinion polls and/or democratic elections.

The survey is only useful if it is targeted and broken down into exhaustive categories or applicant. Starting with age, experience, qualfications etc.

Even then you will only ever find people respond how their particular class dictates.

All human opinion is meaningless when put the the test - if it weren't we wouldn't have poverty, dying ecosystems and 250 million fat ignorant Americans dicating world policy.

Gubbs...

You're going very much off-topic here. If you have a problem with opinion polls or surveys in general just ignore them okay?

Furthermore, if you want a discussion of what this poll can be used for, there is a 2-page discussion in the thread which I've linked to below, so if you have anything further to add in this (unproductive) direction, could you please just post it in there?

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/521102691/m/3002065963

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by eXistenZ:

As an analyse:

_we can see that a patch is better than no patch.

_Also there hasn't been a big improve from 077 to 08.

_ most people don't care about the skin (that's a good thing because there are more important elements)

_ FM keeps standing ahead when it comes to database acuurate

_ people are dissapointed with media option

_ regen system could better but id not bad

_ People (40%) are clearly wanting an update for the match engine

_ no difficulty methods nor 3D

Nice work BTW </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you!

I think this a rather good summation of some of the most important points to take from this. Some of my own points:

* I was surprised that almost a third thought that FM2007 was better than FM2008.

* I thought it interesting that while only app. 28% were dissatisfied with the amount of features announced, 45% were dissatisfied with the general progress achieved. This might have something to do with the fact that 2/3 of people felt that bugs were ranging from "unacceptable" to "a bit of a problem".

* A large number of people found that the improved financial side of things had contributed the most to their enjoyment of the game from the list of new features.

* A LOT of people are disapproving of media and player interaction.

* The match engine is a very divisive issue. Apart from media/player interaction, it has the largest number of "Very poor" answers, but a great many people are also positive about it.

* It looks a bad sign for SI that only 11-12% are interested in FM Live on here.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gubbs:

That's life ..

You are always going to find the vast majority of everyone to be witless, unimaginative, under educated, judgemental, shallow, incompetent, opinionated, unqualfied monkeys.

Asking them what they think is pointless; largely why nobody lends any credence whatsoever to quantitative opinion polls and/or democratic elections.

The survey is only useful if it is targeted and broken down into exhaustive categories or applicant. Starting with age, experience, qualfications etc.

Even then you will only ever find people respond how their particular class dictates.

All human opinion is meaningless when put the the test - if it weren't we wouldn't have poverty, dying ecosystems and 250 million fat ignorant Americans dicating world policy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lol, I wouldn't dare to be that frank, but sadly you've got the point there.

dane0, I don't think he doesn't get this survey stuff and it doesn't make your efforts any less valuable. There will be smarter and less smarter, black and white, big and small people to state their opinnions but it has nothing to do with the poll. I bet the big majority is only happy for these things to be created and grateful to people who try to help.

You surely understand yourself too that how "official" your survey can be as you have stated many times earlier, and I only hope that everybody else too can take it as it is. Some have the brain, some don't. But everybody could and should still try to learn from it. Thank you for making it happen .

I think purely the timing of this survey reflected badly with FMLive more than anything, if this was carried out before FM08 was released or not long after the announcement had just been made the number would be much higher. The focus is always going to be on the main game while its latest release is still relatively new

was this for a school/uni project as seems an awful lot of work for something done for "fun"?

You might be right about that. I guess when it comes to "massively multiplayer online game" or whatever FM Live is, it also depends a lot on how the community will develop. About 25% does say "Don't know", so even if only 35% of the players of FM are interested it could be a huge success... Still I thought the interest would be a bit larger...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dane0:

You might be right about that. I guess when it comes to "massively multiplayer online game" or whatever FM Live is, it also depends a lot on how the community will develop. About 25% does say "Don't know", so even if only 35% of the players of FM are interested it could be a huge success... Still I thought the interest would be a bit larger... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was actually quite happy that people seemed to be thinking with their own brains and aren't rushing to buy FML as they don't know that much yet about it. I was first a bit disappointed that so many were blindly planning to buy FM09 whatever it comes to be like. It's good to support SI and be hopeful but wise people really do some research first and make their judgements after they know what they are judging.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jopo12:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dane0:

You might be right about that. I guess when it comes to "massively multiplayer online game" or whatever FM Live is, it also depends a lot on how the community will develop. About 25% does say "Don't know", so even if only 35% of the players of FM are interested it could be a huge success... Still I thought the interest would be a bit larger... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was actually quite happy that people seemed to be thinking with their own brains and aren't rushing to buy FML as they don't know that much yet about it. I was first a bit disappointed that so many were blindly planning to buy FM09 whatever it comes to be like. It's good to support SI and be hopeful but wise people really do some research first and make their judgements after they know what they are judging. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

of course, but at the same time this has been the best football simulation for years so you can really only assume it will be the best next year as well until more details about the game and others are released. it wouldnt really be buying blindly after the great history of fm/cm.

dane0. I was a little critical of the survey itslef and the way that some of the qustions were worded and also the options, (or rather lack thereof), in some of the answers.

I must say though that I one again comment you on actually having the ability to cpompile and eun the survey, (rather than just discuss doing one as I did).

Furthermore, the presentation of your results is exceptional .

In terms of the results themselves, I must say I am pleasantly surprised. The results accross the board were significantly better than I had expected, (with the exception of the "interaction" module), in both the "unpatched version", the patched version, and even the individual modules.

As a regular poster on these forums, (and a pretty avid reader of many many many posts that probably slip by without too much notice by others, it's possible that my expectation had been heightened by some of the excellent threads that I have read over the last 2 or so years, that gave ideas to improve upon what I already thought was a pretty exceptional game.

Maybe that was a little naive on my part. I suppose I look at a subjecy being discussed in great detail and just assume that SI will incorporate it into one of the next couple of issues, (as I know just about diddlysquat about programming).

Anyway, I'm getting off the subject/

Good survey.

Flippin excellent presentation of compiled data .

Positive set of results overall I think too.

Well done dane0.

Is this ")" yours Jimbo. I've just found it on the floor and I think it fell off your post

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by muncherdave:

of course, but at the same time this has been the best football simulation for years so you can really only assume it will be the best next year as well until more details about the game and others are released. it wouldnt really be buying blindly after the great history of fm/cm. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well I can't think of CM 01/02 and FM 2008 as the same series, what they actually aren't. History is great, but who should care about things in the past when they suck now? FM is going lower down in quality with each release. Features are added but playability and functionality are decreasing alarmingly. I wouldn't buy a new FM just because I liked CM 01/02 or even FM 2006.

Thank you very much Jimbo What is life without a bit of flashy presentation

Yes, I must say I was a bit surprised at just how positive the results were, when you take into consideration what is being bandied around in the forums. I was also very pleasantly surprised that something that is universally praised like the database, only got 3,29% negative responses and got over 90% positives. This actually implies that people aren't just answering negatively or positively, but are actually answering the questions...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jopo12:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by muncherdave:

of course, but at the same time this has been the best football simulation for years so you can really only assume it will be the best next year as well until more details about the game and others are released. it wouldnt really be buying blindly after the great history of fm/cm. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well I can't think of CM 01/02 and FM 2008 as the same series, what they actually aren't. History is great, but who should care about things in the past when they suck now? FM is going lower down in quality with each release. Features are added but playability and functionality are decreasing alarmingly. I wouldn't buy a new FM just because I liked CM 01/02 or even FM 2006. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

thats fine that you think that, because once you become disgruntled with something like this you are always going to be more cautious about any future incarnations. but my point is you aren't going into this blindly as you have the previous versions to look back on and some sort of sense on where things might be going.

I think some people are confused with the definition of "Board Confidence" because that's the second most flawed aspect of this game.

People do seem to complain about it A LOT in the forums too.

I think the opinion of this was shown in "Media Interaction" because people probably thought Confidence was the same as Interaction. As you can see many people didn't like the Media Interaction.

http://files.filefront.com/Football+Manager+Survey+28pd...48584;/fileinfo.html

I mirrored it on filefront because I hate rapidshare and want it to die.

wow, 6 people actually think the skin is the games main problem that needs addressing

Over-all though, the survey suggests that most forum users are generally happy with the game, good to hear, I'm one of them

It'll be interesting to see if the people at SI who seemed at pains to ward us off of reading too much into the results of this survey are now patting themselves on the back following the surprisingly positive results.

Good work dane0!

I'm glad to see others are saying the interaction between yourself and the game (players/board) is an area that needs improving.

How many people took the survey? Did I miss that bit?

I was pretty surprised to see so many people dissatisfied with the media/player interaction...

Since coming from EHM, I've been thinking FM's interaction aspect is the most amazing thing I've ever seen.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by breaker:

How many people took the survey? Did I miss that bit? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can see how many people took the survey in the box in the upper right corner. 530 started it and from those 477 completed it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It'll be interesting to see if the people at SI who seemed at pains to ward us off of reading too much into the results of this survey are now patting themselves on the back following the surprisingly positive results.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, first of all, I found it a bit funny talking to Miles about limiting overtly negative responses, when I already at that point knew that they would be rather positive instead.

As for patting themselves on the back, well, why shouldn't they? Don't get me wrong, personally I do not feel that FM2008 was perfect and I was quite surprised to find so many bugs, when you consider the small amount of new features added. However, what SI CAN pat themselves on the back for, is still having the best manager game out there, despite the industry's big guns (Eidos and EA Sports aren't exactly minnows) chasing their market share.

Yes sure, there are kinks in the different features of the game, and as the results of the survey shows some of them is in dire need of reprogramming (interaction, perhaps training and the match engine) however, the fact that we can sit down with the game and point out the features that are working well and those who aren't working well is actually impressive.

Look at Championship Manager and what Eidos have been able to do after 3 years of hard work trying to make a managing game. Is Championship Manager 2008 on level with Football Manager 2008?

Is it on level with Football Manager 2006 or 2005?

Is it even on level with Championship Manager 03/04?

No, not really in my opinion.

So therefore, yes, I do believe SI can sit back and pat themselves on the back for creating a game that is leaps and bounds in front of every other manager game out there. Once they've patted themselves on the back for that it's time to get to work on perfecting their game. The survey is good for showing what we here on the forums think should be done to perfect the game and as SI have been very good at using the forums for interaction with their fans I actually think this survey will be useful for the continued discussion here.

Think about it this way, when the results for this survey were made available in this thread everyone were surprised at how positive the results were. Now consider how SI must feel if they're trying to use the forums for feedback on the game. For all they'd know it was the worst manager game ever published, when quite frankly it is not. This survey was actually solely meant to be a way for the discussion in the forums to move forward and I hope it can.

Right now we have people singling out almost every bit and part of the game and deeming them to be of unacceptable quality, when in reality I guess most things in the game could do with minor adjustments and tweaks (although judging by the results media and player interaction aren't one of them). So therefore use this to gauge the general opinion. If you're the only one feeling that the database is a heap of junk, maybe you might be the one who is wrong etc.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">That's life ..

You are always going to find the vast majority of everyone to be witless, unimaginative, under educated, judgemental, shallow, incompetent, opinionated, unqualfied monkeys.

Asking them what they think is pointless; largely why nobody lends any credence whatsoever to quantitative opinion polls and/or democratic elections.

The survey is only useful if it is targeted and broken down into exhaustive categories or applicant. Starting with age, experience, qualfications etc.

Even then you will only ever find people respond how their particular class dictates.

All human opinion is meaningless when put the the test - if it weren't we wouldn't have poverty, dying ecosystems and 250 million fat ignorant Americans dicating world policy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Idiot.

It's so ironic that you cannot spell: judgmental, unqualified and dictating.

You should be a tory candidate matey.

Great post. Interesting results.

Dane0- your spot on.

IMO and from my perspective the reason FM08 is a very poor release is because of the following (some of which you mentioned):

1) Known bugs prior to release in the match engine not being fixed in a release day patch.

2) The obvious poor first patch- where its quite obvious that SI chose to nerf finishing rather than fix the awful defending.

3) The fact that even though new features are thin on the ground that the game reached us in such a state.

4) That we have to wait until 3 months after release to get the game in a truly decent state (assuming 8.0.2. does hit the target).

Its not really good enough, and it makes this player wonder whether we will ever see a release of FM that ever truly takes the game forward in anything other than little steps.

George Graham, I think you might be right there, and as mentioned before, app. 66% find that the bugs are harming their enjoyment of the game to some degree.

That cannot be satisfactory for SI. If we want to analyze a bit more on it, the facts that I mentioned above about people not really being to bothered with the amount of new features announced (app. 50% satisfied vs. 28% unsatisfied), but

still being rather bothered about the "general progress achieved" (app. 45% unsatisfied vs. 32% satisfied) seem to indicate that people wouldn't mind a general lack of new features, but that they do expect the new game to be a progress when it comes to playability and lack of bugs. Please do correct me, if I'm reading too much into this...

Thankyou for your hard work on the survey Dane0 and SI should have a good look at the survey and it may give them an idea on how a small percentage feels about the game at the moment and it may influence them on future projects to be included in the game. The main problem being the match engine and i see a massive percentage feel the same way so i hope SI tweak this for their 2009 release then this game would be that little bit more perfect.

Once again Dane0......cheers bud.

Interesting read

Like most I can't say that I am surprised that the media interaction was rather the worst out of all of them.

I'm surprised how many people are playing the game fully patched. I just can't play with that match engine at all. I'd say the match engine has gone from 10/10 in Beta Patch 1 to about 2/10 in the final patch.

Good survey, well done. Couldn't believe all the positive results, because whilst reading the fotrum's it seems that others are saying lots of negative feedback.

Well done though, good to see some general results of what people really think of the game

Yes, a lot of people are playing with it patched, but as you can see from the results actually people find the patch quite a lot better than the original game...

Just bumping this as it seems not everyone have caught site of it...

That's life ..

You are always going to find the vast majority of everyone to be witless, unimaginative, under educated, judgemental, shallow, incompetent, opinionated, unqualfied monkeys.

Asking them what they think is pointless; largely why nobody lends any credence whatsoever to quantitative opinion polls and/or democratic elections.

The survey is only useful if it is targeted and broken down into exhaustive categories or applicant. Starting with age, experience, qualfications etc.

Even then you will only ever find people respond how their particular class dictates.

All human opinion is meaningless when put the the test - if it weren't we wouldn't have poverty, dying ecosystems and 250 million fat ignorant Americans dicating world policy.

I am appalled at your elitist mentality and assuming you are right, wouldn't that mean your opinion does not matter as well? The fact that you're on these forums voicing your (banal) opinions already shows that you are a barrel of contradictions. And if you contradict yourself, your opinion really does not matter.

A pity there isn't an FM07 survey to compare these results to (or if there is i haven't found it), might give the results a bit more meaning?

I'm suprised just how well the transfer system comes out in the survey. IMO, it's the worst part of the game, and theres a large thread expressing the nagativity towards it, yet it still seems that most people are pleased with it.

I'd have added the question

"If you don't play with a big 4 club, have you have any success without needing to download tactics or using a scouting utility?"