Lack of goals from wide players/wingers (player naming)

[CPS]

Posted this on the bugs forum but would be interested on other people's views on this.

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Not really a bug but having gone through 3 half seasons on the FM10 demo (holidaying quite often so this evidence is more as an observer) I noticed that wide players seem to score quite infrequently. In half a season in Spain, Messi scored 3 league goals - 2 of those being penalties. The highest scorer I saw from a wide position was not surprisingly Ronaldo but even then he only managed 4. However, a 36 year old Martin Palermo could manage 16 goals in 17 Serie A games for Catania.

Here's a screen of the top scoring wide midfielders/wingers in the Premier League at the end of the demo, which I think is 22 games. I've filtered out all other positions:



Even in this example I think McFadden and Tommy Smith's goals came from a striking position. I may be wrong but I would expect more goals from AMR and AML players, especially from the likes of Messi and Ronaldo even in an AI formation where they are basically wide forwards. I thought the balance was perfect in FM09 and I'd be disappointed if we go back to the FM07 days where strikers scored a very high percentage of goals. Be interested in other opinions and would be delighted to be proved wrong.

[yeahyeah]

to be honest that looks fair to me, Ronaldo and Messi are exceptions because they're the 2 best players in the world and Ronaldo is essentially a striker these days (but thats another problem altogether imo), while Messi is more of a wide forward than a winger.. If I saw the likes of Malbranque, Lawrence, Park Ji Sung, Wade Elliot etc. scoring more than that I'd be worried

[nev147]

This is not meant to say actually no your theory is wrong, but Messi playing in AML scored 10 goals in 15 games for me in comparison to Messi in your game! I hate to say it but I think it has been said that forwards are scoring at a high rate and is being looked at. So maybe this is shown in the midfielders/wingers as the strikers may be scoring a few too many which takes away from the midfielders - just my theory!

[ReeNah]

Indeed...

There are scoring wingers and not so scoring wingers. Ronaldo, Messi etc are scoring winger and should have scored more than 2 or 3 goals in half a season unless they were injured as their track record would suggest... Others like Ji Sung Park or Wade Elliot; 3 or 4 for half a season isnt an unrealistic return however if there is no winger scoring over 10 goals in the half the season that's a tad wierd I think...

[CPS]

to be honest that looks fair to me, Ronaldo and Messi are exceptions because they're the 2 best players in the world and Ronaldo is essentially a striker these days (but thats another problem altogether imo), while Messi is more of a wide forward than a winger.. If I saw the likes of Malbranque, Lawrence, Park Ji Sung, Wade Elliot etc. scoring more than that I'd be worried

I see your point on the likes of Elliot and Park but I'll give you some examples of players who didn't make the list - Maxi Rodriguez (0 in 10), Ashley Young (2 in 21), Luka Modric (0 in 19), Matty Taylor (0 in 14), Bilyaletdinov (0 in 17), Benayoun (0 in 16 from AML and AMR). Balance that with Heskey getting 11 goals in 13 starts, whereas back in Serie A, Inzaghi scored 9 league goals without actually starting a game.

[dking]

Messi is my top scorer from AMR with 11 goals in 10 games.

I have him as an inside forward out on the AMR position.

As for ashley young ,maxi rodriguez ,luca modric ,and matty taylor(?) ,how many goals would they really score in 20 odd games? 5 max ,at a push? There hardly prolific. Yossi on the other hand is alot more prolific but sadly he just doesnt have messi's stats in game.

I do agree with certain strikers scoring way too many goals.

[MSCCG]

maybe its the AI not knowing when to set a player to inside forward instructions?

[CPS]

Messi is my top scorer from AMR with 11 goals in 10 games.

I have him as an inside forward out on the AMR position.

As for ashley young ,maxi rodriguez ,luca modric ,and matty taylor(?) ,how many goals would they really score in 20 odd games? 5 max ,at a push? There hardly prolific. Yossi on the other hand is alot more prolific but sadly he just doesnt have messi's stats in game.

I do agree with certain strikers scoring way too many goals.

Well Matty Taylor scored 10 goals in 30 odd games in the Premier League last season and already has 3 or 4 this season, Ashley Young got 8 and Rodriguez regularly knocks in 6-10 in La Liga. Taylor is a perfect example of a moderate player benefiting from a certain tactical set up i.e. Benayoun shouldn't have to have Messi's stats to be weighing in with the odd goal.

Obviously evidence from one season in the demo is not conclusive but I would expect someone to be chipping in from wide quite frequently. Just checked my last save on FM09 and Ben Arfa had 8 with Bentley on 7 at a similar stage of the season. You might not agree with the players but at least it shows that the AI could also set up a tactic that didn't rely almost exclusively on strikers and AMC's to score. Perhaps another poster was right about the AI refusing to select players as inside forwards.

[Mitja]

Absolutly agree with OP. Wide players are totally useless when it comes to scoring or even getting into chances to score. And I defently don't excpect every winger to score 10 goals per seson. But it looks like we're back with ME where every other striker can easily score 40 goals.

Wide players's movement and behaviour just isn't right, right now. And it never was. Even when set to Cut in in Wide play instructions, they just stay on the flank. It seems to me that this feature doesn't work at all.

[gunner86]

This is not a problem I'm having. Maxi Rodriguez who I only play as MR and who doesn't play all the time cos SWP is my captain. And he is 2nd in my scoring charts behind Adebayor, and ahead on van der Vaart in 3rd and Bellamy in 4th. FYI Tevez has not scored in a competetive match.

[Motherlover]

I just want to point out that most of the posters who disagree with the OP seem to be relating from players who are under their own management. That's great, it indicates that a human player can get their wide players to score goals. However, it's not so great if only human players can do this!

As MSCCG said, maybe it's an issue with the AI's tactical instructions.

[CPS]

Bit of a bump for this thread and sorry for the length of post, but instead of me just speculating about this I did some testing of my own to see how frequently wide players/wingers were scoring and the manner in which the goals were scored.

I randomly picked a team from the Premier League and holidayed until the end of October so all these goals come from players under AI management. I then went through the fixtures and made a note of the positions that scored and how the goal came about. Wingers managed just over 50 goals, which actually seems about right as it was approximately a quarter of goals scored by strikers. The worrying thing about the ME was the manner in which the goals came about. Of the goals scored almost 50% were scored converting a cross from the opposite flank with a back post header or volley. Close to a 25% came from a striker or AMC receiving the goal in a central position outside the box, playing a through ball inside the full back for a winger to score a one-on-one, invariably from a 1st time shot, these goals all came about from teams playing a 4-3-3. The remaining goals were a combination of penalties, free kicks and getting on the end of set pieces.

Not one goal came from a player receiving the ball in a wide area cutting inside the full back and hitting a shot. Not one. I must admit that I didn’t see one goal being scored after the attacking player dribbled past a defender. At times it seemed that wingers were almost on rails which leads me to think that AI wingers are set to ‘Hug touchline’ almost exclusively. I would have hoped that it would be quite a useful tactic for a counter attacking team defending a slender lead in the last ten minutes to have a touchline shout of ‘clear ball to flanks’ hoping to isolate a speedy winger with a defender in the hope he could run directly at goal and get a shot away – think of the goal Arshavin scored on the break last week against Birmingham City.

Incidentally, I didn’t see a lobbed finish once or a player rounding the goalkeeper once when one-on-one.

[gunner86]

Maybe you are right and the AI sets wingers to hug touchline. As at Man City I have mine to free roam and Maxi Rodriguez and Robinho chip in with their fair share. One would hope as the game progresses and managers and players come and go that the AI would adjust it's tactics accordingly and we'll see more goals from all over the park. We shall have to see.

[Mitja]

One would hope as the game progresses.....

FM2011, FM2012...maybe. I agree there's always hope.

[Spurs1979]

Bentley got 7 for me in the demo whilst playing as Spurs, surprising all 7 came from open play as well, playing as a 442 with wingers set to switch sides & hug the touchline

[gunner86]

Bentley got 7 for me in the demo whilst playing as Spurs, surprising all 7 came from open play as well, playing as a 442 with wingers set to switch sides & hug the touchline

What the OP is getting at is the AI tactics seem to mean that AI controlled wingers rarely score.