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FM 2010 Demo - Are these really the Match Engine graphics?


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Just downloaded the demo and played through it for a while.

Given all the hoo-hah about "polish" this year I have to ask one thing.....are these the best graphics you could come up with, SI? Really? Because it's pretty bloody ugly for a game coming out in 2009. In fact, the match engine looks like something from around 1997, a certain Playstation title called Actua Soccer! Anyone remember that?

I'm sure you guys will tell us about all the stuff that went in under the bonnet, and of course that's what we're all far more interested in, but there are plenty of games out there that are as complex as FM and they manage to at least look like games that came out in this decade.

Maybe the number one priority for 2011 should be getting the game to look nice. It's really not that hard - even terrible titles made by total morons manage to look better than this.

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The match engine is only in its second term on Football Manager, most true FM fans wouldnt care if it had a 3d match engine or not because its a very small part of the game. I think when set in the highest detail it actually looks quite nice and is a vast improvement over last years. Stop being so picky and respect the game for what it is, a plethora of data, if you want graphics go and play FIFA.

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I don't know about anyone else, this is just my personal opinion, but I would rather players move in a realistic manner, make realistic passes, make realistic runs on/off the ball, and pretty much move in a silkier and fluid fashion.

First and foremost I want players to play football as realistically as possible, if that's to the detriment of aesthetic beauty then so be it. I'm sure SI will be able to make future additions more beautiful, I'm sure that they will be able to make the details of the players more realistic, but as I said, if you give me realistic acting players Vs Fifa type graphics, give me the realistic acting.

Remember Sensible (world of) soccer? That wasn't the best graphics in the world, the players were wee shorties, but it was still one of the best games to ever be created. It would even entertaining just watching your team play (without taking a playing role)

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You're wrong tbh tedder road, compared to last year's and the fact that several years ago we had text commentary, I'd say the ME is looking pretty good for a game that is concentrated on the management side of football. The crowds are basic but add a lot to the ME experience especially when you score, the pitches look much better, the weather is great and the actual play is much improved and much smoother and I think most of the community would agree with me.

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Yes, SWOS was great. It's also about 15 years old.

This is 2009. Even some of the very worst games out there on the market look better than this. The stadium themselves are so badly implemented that from the main viewing angle you cannot even see the corner taker or throw-in takers along the near touchline.

I also like the way you guys criticise FIFA 10 as if it's some awful piece of crap. It's a pretty good football game if you ask me. And I am "a true FM fan" if you wish to go down that route. Have you bought every single incarnation of this game since the first edition back in the 90's?

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I'd be happy if the graphics were ****, but the game actually mirrored a real life football match. Unfortunately, it doesn't.

I was playing FIFA 10 on the PS3 earlier today (for the first time in 10 years) and I played a match against the computer. I was amazed at how intelligently the players passed and moved. It was so realistic.

Why OH WHY can't FM do the same? Forget the graphics, but at least have the players running around and passing and moving in a realistic fashion!

Some of the things I see on the match engine defy belief. The amount of times a players stand still doing nothing as opponents dribble past them is amazing.

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Yes, SWOS was great. It's also about 15 years old.

This is 2009. Even some of the very worst games out there on the market look better than this. The stadium themselves are so badly implemented that from the main viewing angle you cannot even see the corner taker or throw-in takers along the near touchline.

I also like the way you guys criticise FIFA 10 as if it's some awful piece of crap. It's a pretty good football game if you ask me. And I am "a true FM fan" if you wish to go down that route. Have you bought every single incarnation of this game since the first edition back in the 90's?

I would rather have intelligent moving/passing/tacking/shooting than realistic looking players. Period.

And as for buying every single incarnation of this game goes, yes, yes I have.

Football Manager 2010 will completely overshadow the sales (and the ratings of the critics) of FIFA Manager and CM2010. It's not even going to be close. The main difference being that the good people of SI know what they are doing, the other teams don't, which isn't their fault, with the CM team they are pretty much starting at ground zero.

The graphics on FM2010 are fine. If that's the only complaint that the game receives then Sega and SI will be absolutely delighted and justified for their "polish" policy this season. I haven't played the demo, but I've seen the graphics, I've seen it move, I've also read the impressions of the fans and by all this I am convinced that this incarnation will be the most popular, ever.

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Still, criticism like that is to be expected, as much of that from anybody writing the game off as a glorified spreadsheet long before the advent of 3D. SI are competing on the same playing field as every game out there, and they're pretty odd-ball in that even if their game boasts more text than many an adventure game on your ZX Spectrum and has "lesser" production values than a DOS game era 3d game, it's still going like hotcakes. Should tell those publishers out there something about the importance of a game needing some kind of genuinely ineresting hook rather than masking the lack of it with flashy graphics. If proving the bloody brat of a manager destroying your club how to do the job isn't a hook I don't know what is.

And yet, SI aren't the garage developer they were in the beginning. What started out as a project of two boys between doing their homework is selling in numbers only a World Of Warcraft expansion set is able to compete with. SI are big. Which is making them look even more of an oddball than ever before, what with the massive amount of text and (technically) sub-par 3d visuals. This game is now being played by hundreds of thousands of people day in day out, and some of those start to wonder why the 3d visuals of the game are nowhere near their latest FIFA or Pro Evolution games - nor those released in the past six years, for that matter. For all the credit SI deserve for their match engine, which is the closest any video game has ever been to the real football, period, I expect a fair share of criticism for the 3d represenatation with this iteration too.

Personally? I like it. But it's nowhere near to what my mediocre PC is able render in the latest PES demo in terms of animation, texture quality, lighting and general level of representation. And yet FM remains the more realistic sim of football by a long shot, "Actua soccer" level of 3d representation or no.

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i like the look of FM2010, ok its not the greatest but still the loading time is good and so on. i wouldn't want the graphics to be like FIFA10 or something and have to wait a long time for each match to load up. and the game is realistic and probably more so then FIFA10.

i like to watch the highlights but most of my friends just use the old text when playing games so......

but im waiting very much for the game to come out because it seems to me its gonna be very good and much better then last years.

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Graphics are alright! But even though they not the best the game seems realistic to me. Just like halldors78 said! I think with the "ugly" crowd, pixel players and wierd stadiums, it will be still more fun than FIFA MANAGER 10, why?, because it is the most realistic simulation ever made.

I enjoy the match!

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i can't believe people are comparing the graphics of the 3d pitch to fifa 10. fifa is a football game, fm is a management game. simple as that. the number of people, hours, money and technology ea use to get the graphics like they are on fifa dwarfs pro evo never mind football manager. i personally think the 3d is a million miles better than last year. last year i hardly used it because of how jerky it was but this year i've used it in every match and actually enjoy using it and seeing how different tactics work etc..

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i can't believe people are comparing the graphics of the 3d pitch to fifa 10. fifa is a football game, fm is a management game. simple as that. the number of people, hours, money and technology ea use to get the graphics like they are on fifa dwarfs pro evo never mind football manager. i personally think the 3d is a million miles better than last year. last year i hardly used it because of how jerky it was but this year i've used it in every match and actually enjoy using it and seeing how different tactics work etc..

Exactly. If SI focused all their attention on graphics then the management realism wouldn't be as good as it was. I don't play the game for the graphics.

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Is it too much to ask for both? Some people are trying to re-frame the argument, unsuccessfully.

I'm happy with the current graphics, because I would hate it more if it were "good" graphics i.e. FIFA 1998, where the players were pixelated and ugly. And didn't have fingers.

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Take Fifa Manager 08 for example, that had a graphics engine similar to Fifa 06 I believe. The actual game itself was terrible, but the match engine didnt look bad but I would choose FM over it anyday as their is more to FM than just a match engine. People here seem to be forgetting that SI have only had 1 year to work on this engine plus get all the data up to date, they could skip a version and take 2 years to create a top notch match engine, but who's to say in 2 years fifa isnt gonna be photo realistic, then you will complaining about it again.

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^ Simply put... yes? It is too much to ask.

Using FIFA/PES as an example... The graphics in those games (espec latest FIFA, with PES not being out yet lol) are superb. And compare them to how fugly it all was even in 2004/2005 (I think I went about 4 years without a footygame as they were both as shyte as each other...) And think that every year they have spent millions, with teams dedicated to nothing but graphics, as for those game that is their most important selling point innit? I mean, who would care about be a pro or manager mode if the graphics were still as ugly as a few years ago?

Again, the simplicity of the argument is, the biggest selling point of FM is the management. If you consider how many of the community happily plug away with 2d mode, why would they waste all their efforts on improving 3d? Espec when there have been so many bugs to fix that have killed the longevity of the previous versions.

Also, if you compare how long you spend in the ME compared with how long you are strolling through the mountains of other data, why would you try so hard to improve such a small part of the game?

And, last point. Let’s look at FIFA manager. The graphics, well, yes they are better, but the actual playing AI is rubbish... And if you consider they are even using EA's FIFA engine and that’s the best they can do?? How do you think that poor ol' SI feels without anyone doing 90% of the legwork for them?

And if they spend that much time on the graphics, which are still poor, and it results in the disastrously poor management side that that game has.... I mean let’s be honest - It is crap! Do you really want FM going down that path?

So, no thank you sir. Take your graphics. Give me improvements to what I spend most my time interacting with, and update the ME with what ever is left over. Just the way they have done. And prob the way the will do. There is a reason why FM is the best management game out, and why it has been for so long...

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Yes, SWOS was great. It's also about 15 years old.

This is 2009. Even some of the very worst games out there on the market look better than this. The stadium themselves are so badly implemented that from the main viewing angle you cannot even see the corner taker or throw-in takers along the near touchline.

I also like the way you guys criticise FIFA 10 as if it's some awful piece of crap. It's a pretty good football game if you ask me. And I am "a true FM fan" if you wish to go down that route. Have you bought every single incarnation of this game since the first edition back in the 90's?

Actually i have bought every version of the game. Some of them twice when i have lost the disk or done something else to make it unplayable. I have been playing football manager games since the days of the ZX spectrum.

Personaly i think the graphics are fine for FM10. When i buy the game 3D graphics is the farthest thing from my mind. I would rather SI concentrated on fixing other things, like distribution of regen attributes, within the game far more than making the players look pretty.

As someone said previously this is only the 2nd incarnation of 3D, i am sure it will become a lot more visually pleasing soon.

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^ Simply put... yes? It is too much to ask.

Using FIFA/PES as an example... The graphics in those games (espec latest FIFA, with PES not being out yet lol) are superb. And compare them to how fugly it all was even in 2004/2005 (I think I went about 4 years without a footygame as they were both as shyte as each other...) And think that every year they have spent millions, with teams dedicated to nothing but graphics, as for those game that is their most important selling point innit? I mean, who would care about be a pro or manager mode if the graphics were still as ugly as a few years ago?

Again, the simplicity of the argument is, the biggest selling point of FM is the management. If you consider how many of the community happily plug away with 2d mode, why would they waste all their efforts on improving 3d? Espec when there have been so many bugs to fix that have killed the longevity of the previous versions.

Also, if you compare how long you spend in the ME compared with how long you are strolling through the mountains of other data, why would you try so hard to improve such a small part of the game?

And, last point. Let’s look at FIFA manager. The graphics, well, yes they are better, but the actual playing AI is rubbish... And if you consider they are even using EA's FIFA engine and that’s the best they can do?? How do you think that poor ol' SI feels without anyone doing 90% of the legwork for them?

And if they spend that much time on the graphics, which are still poor, and it results in the disastrously poor management side that that game has.... I mean let’s be honest - It is crap! Do you really want FM going down that path?

So, no thank you sir. Take your graphics. Give me improvements to what I spend most my time interacting with, and update the ME with what ever is left over. Just the way they have done. And prob the way the will do. There is a reason why FM is the best management game out, and why it has been for so long...

While I agree with some of your reasoning, I'm still unsure about your premise. You say that the graphics is a small part of the game, and the gameplay is more important. You also argue that in trying to produce better graphics, attention will be diverted away from improving the gameplay.

Your argument is that graphics should not be improved. But I don't think your reasoning takes us to that point; it would be more fair to say that your argument was that graphics don't need to be improved. Which is an argument I would be prepared to entertain.

Furthermore, the graphics have improved this year, so it seems from evidence that SI don't find this endeavour to be fruitless. Graphic designers would need to be hired separately from the ME designers, as existing staff from other departments in all likelihood do not have the necessary skills to implement a 3D engine. I think that this hints that there already is a separate team that is in charge of the graphics. Your second point seems to come from intuition rather than evidence.

I have to say, I'm happy with how the 3D presentation has progressed in this version, but the argument that graphics should not be improved seems to me frivolous and counter-productive.

Regarding the stadium, I think managing games need to show most or all of the pitch the whole time which makes it easier to spot deficiencies in the view. I personally find the graphics in FIFAManager quite ugly and suffering from the same problem. These people are pioneers, so we have to give them time.

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Nobody is saying that the graphics shouldn't be improved, they are saying that upgrading graphics doesn't take number 1 on the priority of SI therefore we cant expect it to be greatly improved every year to keep up with current standards, it just wont happen. Therefore we should just be happy with the effort that they put in and help them improve the game as much as possible without complaining about it, these people put in a lot of work, they cant do everything.

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It's a matter of Data base and memory. if SI had to combine the FM game data base and match engine like a EA Fifa game their would be an affordable computer out there for other people to buy so they can play FM.

I sure most of FM fan don't care about the 3d hing that much otherwise will all be on EA fifa.

I thing they did good in this and we all know it will get better.

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It's a matter of Data base and memory. if SI had to combine the FM game data base and match engine like a EA Fifa game their would be an affordable computer out there for other people to buy so they can play FM.

I sure most of FM fan don't care about the 3d hing that much otherwise will all be on EA fifa.

I thing they did good in this and we all know it will get better.

Exactly. It's also the reason the latest FIFA looks 5 years old on the PC.

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Read most of these replies, startled by the fact you all seem to think that graphics or gameplay are an either/or equation.

SI and Sega make a lot of money from this game and they are guaranteed ridiculous sales numbers. Saying "They've only had a year or two to do the graphics" is ridiculous. I think the excuses people are coming up with here are pretty funny, as many far smaller and poorer companies are able to get decent graphics into their games without ignoring gameplay. To imply that poor little SI is only just getting to grips with graphics is really, really dragging the bottom of the barrel hard for an excuse. They are a big company making a major title - I think it's absolutely fair to expect it to look good.

If they hadn't gone down the "this year is all about polish" route, I probably wouldn't have complained. But the new features - whilst very good, such as the help you now get from your backroom staff - are not so complex that they explain where a year went with regards to the ME. Everyone expected the first iteration of 3d to look like crap because it was their first effort and they wanted to see how it worked out. But given the PR from SI about how they'd got these new dudes in and expanded this team and that team etc.etc. I really expected better.

And this is not a minor part of the game. The ME is the only sure-fire way to see how your team is performing, to hone your tactics and so on. I watch the full match whenever I have a game. So I have to watch about 10 minutes of terribly animated graphics in ugly stadiums. And like I said, I still play FM and will choose it over it's peers so long as it continues to be the best game, and I would definitely rather they spent time making it play like real football, even if that is to the detriment of the graphics. However, the code for the match engine was here last year. Did it take a whole year to tweak it? Or did we get the same old line that it had been rebuilt from scratch?

In which case I have to ask the question I do every year and the one no-one ever seems to have an answer for - why do you need to rebuild the match engine code every year? If you were happy with last year's code - and I'm guessing you were since you released the game - then why do we need to be told that so much time and effort has gone into the match engine code? Especially since the database format has barely changed in years. Surely the match engine should have been honed to perfection by now so you can concentrate on other things?

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Man, I hate these makeshift arguments that make it sound as if game design boils down to something so mutually exclusive - it's either decent grafixxx or good gameplay right? I don't think the point of most the criticism is that FM doesn't look like the latest PES, the kind of visuals that let you make out the carotid artery on a player's throat in close ups without a single second of loading time or loading bar interfering as soon as you're in the main menu - even on rather mediocre gaming computers, by the way.

The thing is that SI's 3D visuals can't compete with

Surely some form of criticism is to be expected, after all, the point of 3D being there in the first place is reaching the next level of immersing you into this whole football manager experience. Yeah, one may find it serviceable, and it is, but at the same time, teams of 21 come up with visuals like this - and dream about selling in units as SI.

And, last point. Let’s look at FIFA manager. The graphics, well, yes they are better, but the actual playing AI is rubbish... And if you consider they are even using EA's FIFA engine and that’s the best they can do??

You make this sound as if this was an advantage. Let's take a look at what that roughly means: There is a quasi-subdivision of EA Sports located in Germany that got the 3D code of a FIFA action soccer game developed by a completely different team in North America and now they're trying to shoehorn a management game into that code. A code that was never meant to do anything else than FIFA soccer games.

Simply put, SI didn't have to start writing an entire 3D engine from scratch themselves, a 3d engine that is the core of their sim. Underneath the hood there's the same match engine running as there has always been, albeit a little tweaked. The only thing SI are providing are three different maskings, methods of presentation, which are: text commentary, 2d and 3d. Slightly improving the textures, lighting and the 3d models of said 3d part wouldn't change anything as far as the engine is concerned.

Personally I applaude SI for putting all their resources into the core of their games rather than the glitz. In fact, I think it's a very punkrock kind of way of doing their games. As said, they're like a decade behind in 3d tech and built text-only games more than a decade after Infocom went bust before that - and not only do they get away with it but ship a million copies+. SI are the pirates of this industry proving an entire business just plain wrong. As such, the point of this post was to vent some anger at people merely writing such criticism off as being shallow. Or make it sound as if a half-way modern presentation and substance were mutually exclusive. Done.

edit: Seems I'm late. :D

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Man, I hate these makeshift arguments that make it sound as if game design boils down to something so mutually exclusive - it's either decent grafixxx or good gameplay right? I don't think the point of most the criticism is that FM doesn't look like the latest PES, the kind of visuals that let you make out the carotid artery on a player's throat in close ups without a single second of loading time or loading bar interfering as soon as you're in the main menu by the way.

The thing is that SI's 3D visuals can't compete with games seven, eight years of age. Surely some form of criticism is to be expected, after all, the 3D being there in the first place is reaching the next level of immersing you into this whole football manager experience. Yeah, one may find it serviceable, and it is, but at the same time, teams of 21 come of with visuals like this - and dream about selling in units as SI.

The difference being, they'll be working with an already created game engine (Such as the Cryengine) which is an off the shelf package now.

Either that or every single developer is working with and knows how to use the graphics engine. FM is somewhat different where in the match engine is only a small portion of the game, and 3d is an even smaller portion of that engine. To get all the changes for each version to work you need to make sure its represented correctly both in commentary, 2d & 3d, its not as simple as just bolting on a fantastic match engine like PES or Fifa's (And if you've ever played Fifa manager you'll know that their 3d match engine is just horribly repetitive as it isn't done on the fly)

I'm not really sure what people want visuals wise. If you've ever been to a football game with a large stadium and sat in one of the higher tiers you can see about as much as you can in the current iteration of the game. The graphics are going to improve. But given the choice of nice graphics in the match engine over anything else? No thanks.

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I'd prefer better graphics, but my dad has been playing Championship Manager since the first one came out and he's just happy with the 2D Classic, he likes it better.

It's a game thats not meant to be built around graphics, but strategy and skill.

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I'd prefer better graphics, but my dad has been playing Championship Manager since the first one came out and he's just happy with the 2D Classic, he likes it better.

It's a game thats not meant to be built around graphics, but strategy and skill.

Spot on.

If you want graphics to be a key part of the game surely Fifa2010 is the one for you?

Deep down, this game is about names, numbers, and strategies. Not pixels.

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Having never used the 3d match engine last year and been sticking to commentary only in all these years of playing FM, I must say that I started using the 3d ME to show key moments during matches in the FM10 demo and I'm really enjoying it. The graphics are not top notch obviously, but that for me doesn't take anything away from the fun of seeing the team you put together playing and when they score a good goal it's a great feeling regardless of the current level of 3D ME. So that part of the game gets a thumbs up from me definitely.

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Why does everyone here seem to think that improving one aspect of the game will lessen the ability/resources to improve elsewhere.

We all know SI are making BUNDLES of money from us guys, and the majority of customers believe (as i'm sure SI are aware) the 3D graphical representation is some way off. Now we all look for realism within any game, and having to compare this match engine with Pro Evo/Fifa makes you wonder whether the ME will compete in the near future.

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I love the simplicity of the 3d match engine as it reminds me of the days when games were about fun and not about fancy graphics. Give me Sensible Soccer on the mega drive or snes over any modern day game.

FM has never been about graphics but about simulating what it would be like to be a manager. If you want fancy graphics go play FIFA on the ps3.

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The difference being, they'll be working with an already created game engine (Such as the Cryengine) which is an off the shelf package now.

You're talking Risen? Not true. This is an in-house engine. Obviously SI's expertise isn't 3d, but seeing how big they've become nobody's forcing them to shy away from expanding their team of 3d artists either - animators, modelers, and so on. Not arguing whether they should do or not. We're all fully aware that SI's in-built hardcore fanbase doesn't give jack about there being ANY kind of graphics in the first place. The game could be 16 colours, beeper sound and text-only and they'd sniff this up as if it was wave of the future dude, 100% electronics. We've known this before this thread popped up already. But trying to make those arguing otherwise look shallow doesn't quite cut it. I'm trying to keep things into perspective. There's a lot of myths that look like they're worth giving a proper fight.

To get all the changes for each version to work you need to make sure its represented correctly both in commentary, 2d & 3d, its not as simple as just bolting on a fantastic match engine like PES or Fifa's (And if you've ever played Fifa manager you'll know that their 3d match engine is just horribly repetitive as it isn't done on the fly)
The thing is that SI's 3D visuals can't compete with games seven, eight years of age. Surely some form of criticism is to be expected

That is all I wanted to get across. Well that, and what I said in my last paragraph, of course. :D

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Why the hell are you complaining about the graphics?

FM isnt about having the best graphics, its about managing.

If you want good graphics go play Fifa manager.

I totally agree! I think the game looks great and the ME has an improved a lot in how the player relates to each other.

The graphics isn't the reason I buy FM. It is much more important that they have among other things revamped the transfer section.

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One of the main problems SI face with FM is the popularity of the game. There are hundreds of thousands of people who don't really play games, but only play FM - and often these folk have quite ancient PCs. They wouldn't upgrade their old PC just to play a new FM for the shiny graphics...

That considered, I think the small team at SI have done a good job with the SECOND iteration of their 3D engine. The stadiums and crowds are fine for a FIRST go. That they've improved both elements significantly on last year, while improving performance? A job well done, in my opinion.

And it is what it is - it's a tactical tool first and foremost.

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I dont care if the graphics in 3D mode arent as good as FIFA or PES.

FM is a football management game and 2 years ago we had text. The 3D engine is fine for this type of game and whilst PES and FIFA look great thats all the developers have to focus on, the majority of FM is none graphical based.

FM is by far the best management game around and is so without top of the range graphics. It just doesnt need them.

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Tbh saying things like "if you want nice graphics, play PES or FIFA" is deteriorating the gamer itself, its making a joke about him. Listen to it for a moment...."if you want better graphics"...lets see what it means;-who doesnt want good graphics in any game? If you were tossed a real life football match simulatior, graphic wise after you, would you refuse it? Surely no. All want better graphics, every year, and I truly believe it would do SI more harm than good if people werent having expectations. Next line"....go play PES or FIFA"...What the hell? Do you guys really believe this is what SI wants the gamers to do? "Oh that bloke over there he wants graphics, lets send him over to our biggest competitions"...

Very simple put; If you are a Fanboi to such a degree you cant understand why people want better graphics in the already existing game engine, please keep it to yourself, 'cause I am sure as hell SI dont want you to play their "lawyer" at all. Of course SI is going to make a better match-engine every year, also graphic wise, cause it will please those who want it, and it wont irritate those who dont really care either, its a win/win situation FFS for SI, telling gamers to go elsewhere is NOT a win/win. It would be a major LOSE over a few year if all who thinks and wants different things were nosescrubbed, so please get over it fanbois, the world progresses, also for SI, and most of us are happy about it (hell I remember last years whines about actually putting a 3d engine into the game....same guys posting negative here again).

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For what 3D has been made, to see each player showing to the manager that they are good in dribbling, tackling, heading, passing et..

So the 3D for next year has to be improved in animations only ( not Engine ) which are really far from what the aim of this view is. The match engine is really great and slight improvement has been made in animations, but a great step is necessary !!

Thanks

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Only a couple years ago FM had NO 3D match graphics, and suddenly you expect next gen graphics? Get a little perspective here

Sometimes I think some threads would be a lot more fruitful if posters tried to make out what was actually discussed before going straight to the reply button after they're finished browsing the thread's title and the first couple of lines within. Granted, in this case, the opening post was a bit, er, boldly worded. But still.

One of the main problems SI face with FM is the popularity of the game. There are hundreds of thousands of people who don't really play games, but only play FM - and often these folk have quite ancient PCs. They wouldn't upgrade their old PC just to play a new FM for the shiny graphics...

That's why modern 3d engines are scalable - bells&whistles for those who are running a computer that isn't a couple years of age, and options to turn off some details for those that are. SI go a step further actually: the 3D part is fully optional.

And it is what it is - it's a tactical tool first and foremost.

The tactical tool was there before. Top-down 2d pitch, it doesn't get any more "tactical tool" than that. Besides, I don't know about you guys, but I never used the representation merely as a tactical tool. On tops I was quite immersed into the experience, be it 2d blops, 3d players or text. Weren't you? Obviously there's something else going on, has always been, than merely handing you a tactical tool.

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Even if the graphic is not a fundamental aspect in such a kind of games I would suggest anyway to SI to implement few dozens more players' animations.

Same speech for injured players, half a dozen of animations would definitely be better than 0.

thanks

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They wouldn't upgrade their old PC just to play a new FM for the shiny graphics...

Fact is, what I don't think the OP understands, the price of a PC to run a game with FM's indepth database and everything else that is going on (I see a lot of people on these forums struggling to run multiple leagues, let alone having amazing graphics), companied with graphics comparable to FIFA (since it's been the main example) would cost rediculous amounts of money. PC's are not like consoles, if you want GOOD graphics you have to pay a lot of money for decent CPU and a high end graphics card.

The game is fine, the graphics are fine.

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Even if the graphic is not a fundamental aspect in such a kind of games I would suggest anyway to SI to implement few dozens more players' animations.

Same speech for injured players, half a dozen of animations would definitely be better than 0.

thanks

They've implemented over 100 more player animations for this version. Its not as if they haven't been working on it :) The priority is when the game is actually being played though, I don't think 99% of users mind too much that injured means 'lying down'

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Fact is, what I don't think the OP understands, the price of a PC to run a game with FM's indepth database and everything else that is going on (I see a lot of people on these forums struggling to run multiple leagues, let alone having amazing graphics), companied with graphics comparable to FIFA (since it's been the main example) would cost rediculous amounts of money. PC's are not like consoles, if you want GOOD graphics you have to pay a lot of money for decent CPU and a high end graphics card.

Wrong. PES/FIFA both run super smooth maxed out on CPUs and video cards that don't cost any more than a video game. Like FM. Regardless, the point wasn't even debating FIFA-like graphics. Surely the OP going all overboard comparing this to fifteen years old games should have hinted at that. It was, ah, well, I give up. :)

Good point about system resources though - FM IS quite resource heavy a game as is. Personally I shudder to think what it runs like with half a decent database on a lesser computer than mine, and mine is far from being a top of the line gaming machine. That more complex 3d models, player animations and the like would bog down the entire processing of the game looks another misconception though. After all, all that is being displayed in 3d is your own game, if you want to, that is. That wouldn't affect anything else in any kind of significant way. The (very much) same ol' match engine still remains the core of the thing going all around.

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Wrong. PES/FIFA both run super smooth maxed out on CPUs and video cards that don't cost any more than a video game. Like FM. Regardless, the point wasn't even debating FIFA-like graphics. Surely the OP going all overboard comparing this to fifteen years old games should have hinted at that. It was, ah, well, I give up. :)

Theres a big difference between FM working on intel cards and Fifa needing a 7800.

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Agree with the fact the animations could be better but we should all remember that it's in it's infancy and there is a long way to go before it's fifa 10 quailty and the game is on the right path.

The match engine is good and should not be knocked, it has come on leap and bounds and think it's a massive improvement over FM09.

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