Genie Scout & FMM - Help or Hindrance? (Players Named)

[Nomis07]

A lot of people say they use Genie Scout and particularly FMM, and a lot more people slam them as cheaters for doing so, but I’m seriously wondering how much of a help it really is and how much affect CA and PA has on the game.

The one thing that may affect my argument is that a majority of my FM08 career has been spent in Germany with FC Bayern Munich, and the German Bundesliga certainly isn’t one of the toughest leagues available.

This part may be better placed in the Good Players forum but I hope the mods and other users let me away with it for now so as I can explain why I think PA and CA is overrated.

Over the years I have gradually assigned specific attributes to positions and regard these attributes as essential if the player is to be deemed worthy of signing. I won’t list all of them but they are pretty much common sense with a centre back requiring good heading, tackling, marking, positioning and concentration as well as decent pace and acceleration. I usually look for at least 16 or above in each of these fields and if they make the grade I sign them, obviously depending on how bad their other less important attributes are.

I don’t use Genie Scout, but I do use FMM to check on my position in players personnel sections etc and also to check the CA/PA of the players I have signed, although if it wasn’t excellent this wouldn’t affect my decision to play them. I chose FC Bayern as my career game and in the second season was raided by a number of top European clubs who took stars such as Lucio and Ribery for quite large prices, I was left with the task of replenishing the squad with players good enough to compete in Europe and win the league as the board expected us to do. Using the above method (attributes only) I brought in 3 young German centre backs and a Brazilian winger for next to nothing, all of them had the required attributes and IMO were of the required quality for Bayern Munich. On checking them in FMM I was surprised to find that none of them had a PA over 160, nevertheless I kept them and by the 4th season each of them had become a first team regular and one of the CB’s was the vice captain. I eventually won 6 leagues in a row, 6 cups and made one CL final. I had made other purchases along the way with varying degrees of success, but again what surprised me most was that the players I signed with a high PA were continually being displaced by supposed lesser players e.g.

Kuranyi with a 160 PA top scored in the German league for 4 years running and kept Aaron with a PA of 194 out of the first team.

Vailatti with a PA of 164 was my playmaker and topped the assists charts 3 out of 6 years kept Ben Arfa out of the team who had a PA of 180+.

Now in my 9th season I’ve just completed the League and Champions League double with Barcelona and again the same has occurred.

Messi PA 198 is being kept out of the team by Recoba a Uruguayan newgen with a PA of 177.

Carlos Vela with a PA of 179 has top scored both seasons and is keeping out Diaz, Rasmussen and Olaizola (all newgens) who each have a PA over 185.

So my suspicions were raised and I decided to conduct a little PA experiment with an old save game of mine in which I was managing Roma and had nearly 200m in transfer funds available.

I saved the game twice under different names and went about signing players using Genie Scout on one and signing players using my attributes system with the other (for the purpose of this experiment I also used FMM to make the players in the GS save have a CA matching their PA so supposedly they were at the top of their game, whereas I didn’t change any in the other save). By the end of it the GS save had a Roma team with all players over 180 PA and an Attributes save with a majority of 140-165 PA. I played exactly the same system in every match with one tactic for home and one for away. Surprisingly I finished 3rd in two seasons with the GS save, scored most goals in the league but struggled defensively, despite probably having the most gifted squad in the World. In the save using attributes to sign only I finished 5th in the first season and 2nd in the second season. To me this didn’t seem like a drastic enough difference considering the disparity in PA and CA, and IMO the attributes team played better football.

Something very interesting occurred in Europe though as the GS squad were excellent in Europe reaching the final on both occasions but falling to an unstoppable Juventus team, whereas the attributes team finished bottom of their group in the first season and only got as far as the quarter finals in the second season.

Obviously this experiment has a lot discrepancies e.g. injuries, teams in group in Europe etc, but it really has made me question how much of an impact CA and PA really has.

IMO people seem to put too much emphasis on PA and especially in the case of Kuranyi and Aaron I think you can find players who are as good if not better with lower PA’s and for less money.

But that’s just my opinion and sorry for being rather long winded about all that, but what do you think? Are Genie Scout and FMM more of a help or more of a Hindrance? I think I may not have experienced the success I have experienced in my career game if I had paid as much attention to PA as is sometimes suggested on these forums.

[chopper99]

I completely disagree.....


Only joking (a bit of an 'in-joke' that one for anyone wondering what I'm rabbiting on about).

I discovered this in FM07. There was an Italian striker I used to sign in every save who always ended up as my top scorer. Back then I used to use Genie scout a lot, mainly just to check my own players as there were no coach reports. Anyway, this guy never had a PA above 160 but did have very high attributes for Jumping, Strength and Finishing as well as a couple of others. This made him an excellent target man and in the system I played at the time caused him to score a shed load of goals. Strangely, because of his relatvely low CA his value never got that high, no matter how well he played, and there was rarely any interest in him. In fact when I left a team for a different team the team I'd just left instantly transfer listed him, despite him being their top scorer for the last 3 seasons.

At the same time I wouldn't say scouting tools are a hinderence, but you definitely need to take more things into account than just CA and PA. The spread of attributes, PPM's and the hidden attributes can all be as, if not more, important.

[glamdring]

I never use scout programs or anything to know the PAs of players. I've just paid relatively huge sums for a few German youngsters based on my scouts saying they will be great, but only time will tell - it's a risk, but more fun than FMM telling me they will definitely be great.

Attributes are what matter to me though. I know FM has changed since FM06, but I won the Champions League with Icelandic side Grindavik with a bunch of good players (again I don't know their PAs and CAs, but if they were that good they wouldn't have been at Grindavik!) and thanks hugely to one striker, a Faroese who cost £1k and whose attributes are appalling except for a few areas, he had 20 finishing, he had bags of pace, he had flair and creativity to burn and he could drible like a demon. He ripped through Juventus, Villareal and Bayern Munich (winning 0-5 in Munich ) like a hot knife through butter to my astonishment. Maybe more difficult nowadays in FM08, but I'm always more interested in attributes than CA.

One thing I have to pick you up on though which seems a rather obvious point - the Bundesliga isn't one of the toughest leagues available if you choose to manage Bayern Munich. If you choose to manage someone else (even Werder Bremen who are in that 2nd tier of German clubs) it is freakin difficult to unseat Bayern Munich when they are paying their players £80k+ per year etc. In my latest season they won 29, drew 5 and lost 1 of their 34 games, going 30 unbeaten to start the season, wrapping the title up with 7 games to spare and only losing in Bremen 4 games from the end. Even if we'd have had an awesome season we'd have never matched that kind of searing pace!

[Nomis07]

Originally posted by glamdring:
One thing I have to pick you up on though which seems a rather obvious point - the Bundesliga isn't one of the toughest leagues available if you choose to manage Bayern Munich. If you choose to manage someone else (even Werder Bremen who are in that 2nd tier of German clubs) it is freakin difficult to unseat Bayern Munich when they are paying their players £80k+ per year etc. In my latest season they won 29, drew 5 and lost 1 of their 34 games, going 30 unbeaten to start the season, wrapping the title up with 7 games to spare and only losing in Bremen 4 games from the end. Even if we'd have had an awesome season we'd have never matched that kind of searing pace!

That's why I felt I needed to try it out with a different team who whilst in a top league were probably in the second tier of the league as you say.

It doesn't have anything to do with this topic, but I know glandring has an interest in the German league (like myself) since playing as Bremen, when I left FC Bayern after 6 years of dominance and tame spending they went on to spend mass amount each summer and pay outrageous wages but have failed to win the league in three years. Werder were "sadly" relegated last year VFB look like they are going to be relegated this year and the new force in germany is Frankfurt and HSV.

[Dar2000]

I dont use either genie scout or FMM but I do see what your getting at. I too buy players for certain positions depending on attributes.

I recently signed a left winger from Valencia when he was 22. He had good pace, good technicall ability and a great left foot. My scouts didn't rate him at all though(and we know the scouts can see PA). First season he was poor, avg rating of 6.56(or something, but included a number of substitute appearances), second season 6.89 with more starts and a much better goal, assist return. Current season he is starting to impress and getting a good run in the side, his morale is 'superb' and is looking like a really good signing.

Considering the scouts can see PA, and PA can't change right? Something must be behind his impressie displays. High technical stats and confidence perhaps?

[skogmantore]

Interesting. I have used MiniScout for a long time, and signed players more or less based on age/position/ca/pa. Lately I have learned to ignore ca/pa, and focus more on attributes. The nice part about this is that you can find players that are much cheaper and willing to sign than those high ca/pa players. I play mostly lower leagues, and recently signed an English left back called Jason Talbot. He is a ca=95 and pa=110 but gets lots of 7's and 8's while my ca=130 pa=160 players get mostly 6's and 7's. The explanation I feel is that he has the perfect attributes wor a full back. Well, not perfect or he'd be in the Premier LEague, but still a ca=95 player that plays on a ca=125 level. If that makes any sense.

[turn it upto 11]

I used FMM twice.

I had a career game going and it was getting a litlte stale(and slow) so i down loaded FMM to check my team. I had 3 what i thought were stars, fair enough my assman didnt rate the mbut tbf he was a moron, v poor stats. anyway loaded up FMM and these 3 "stars" had pretty poor PA and had pretty much reached it, but they all had been getting 7+ for about 3 seasons, so i started playing the players that FMM rated (about 10 higher CA than my "stars" and around 30 higher PA) anyway they didnt play very well, i thought they just needed time to gel so i left it and they never did, so i went back to my old ways and my team never recover from thier bad run and i quit that save having ruined it.

another time, well same time just new game, i played as wigan and wanted to get a load of high CA players for next to nothing. i got the high CA players and pretty much built a new team for about 15 mill. but these players never performed. this was either down the wigans rep or just the players werent as good as thier CA said.

anyhoo i dont use it, i think its a lot better using my own judgement, and it is also amazing when you unearth a gem by pure luck

[Law_Man]

Originally posted by Nomis07:
Kuranyi with a 160 PA top scored in the German league for 4 years running and kept Aaron with a PA of 194 out of the first team.

Vailatti with a PA of 164 was my playmaker and topped the assists charts 3 out of 6 years kept Ben Arfa out of the team who had a PA of 180+.

Now in my 9th season I’ve just completed the League and Champions League double with Barcelona and again the same has occurred.

Messi PA 198 is being kept out of the team by Recoba a Uruguayan newgen with a PA of 177.

Carlos Vela with a PA of 179 has top scored both seasons and is keeping out Diaz, Rasmussen and Olaizola (all newgens) who each have a PA over 185.

I think what you're trying to say is that current ability (CA) isn't necessarily an indication of how a player will perform. Like you say, its his visible attributes that are important. The match engine doesn't take into account CA/PA at all.

Comparing PA as you have done, is a bit pointless really given that PA won't affect how well a player will player for you. It is his attributes that will determine that, and they are determined in large part by his CA, nothing to do with his PA.

But I think the main point that you make is right - forget CA/PA and focus on players having the right killer stats and you won't go far wrong.

Footedness is another kettle of fish entirely however.....

[Nomis07]

Thanks for the input chaps.

I guess what i'm really asking is, forgetting the fact that some people consider it cheating, do you think that players could actually hinder their performance byt using the likes of Genie Scout etc and purchasing players on that basis.

The Kuranyi and Aaron example is the most important. If one of you took over Bayern Munich this evening and used Genie Scout you would buy Aaron and whilst doing well for you he will not have been as effective as Kuranyi would have been. So essentially you could actually adversely affect your game by purchasing someone base don their CA/PA rather than their attributes.

[Pukey]

Thats like in my celtic game. A left winger with 140 something PA but good stats for that position and he was absolutely brilliant. One of my best ever players on FM.

[turn it upto 11]

I guess what i'm really asking is, forgetting the fact that some people consider it cheating, do you think that players could actually hinder their performance by using the likes of Genie Scout etc and purchasing players on that basis.

i think it did hinder by performance, i certainly didnt do very well at wigan by judging purely on CA, and i was doing better at redditch before using FMM.

i think a good way of testing it would be international management, that way different players can be experimented with without the need for transfers.

pick the 11 best players in each positions based on CA then play 2 games. then go back to the squad selection and pick the team based purely on your own judgement and see haw you do it would obviusly have to be more than one or two games to get a proper overall judgement.

[glamdring]

Originally posted by Nomis07:
Thanks for the input chaps.

I guess what i'm really asking is, forgetting the fact that some people consider it cheating, do you think that players could actually hinder their performance byt using the likes of Genie Scout etc and purchasing players on that basis.

The Kuranyi and Aaron example is the most important. If one of you took over Bayern Munich this evening and used Genie Scout you would buy Aaron and whilst doing well for you he will not have been as effective as Kuranyi would have been. So essentially you could actually adversely affect your game by purchasing someone base don their CA/PA rather than their attributes.

Different players perform differently across different savegames though, even assuming the same PA. Also in different teams they perform very differently.

Obviously I haven't looked at PAs so I'm commenting purely from the point of view of player consistency or inconsistency. I sold Aaron Hunt (striker) to Hamburg at the start of last season, mostly because I needed to raise cash, but also because I didn't feel he was of quite the standard I wanted for a striker. The season just finished our top scorer was an attacking midfielder with 19, our top striker got only 17 (although in fairness I only signed him in January so it was a good haul), whilst Hunt netted over 30 goals for Hamburg.

Ciprian Marica played only 8 games in his Stuttgart career and didn't score once. I took a punt on him (based entirely on his attributes - I didn't know his CA/PA and his goalscoring record was obviously abysmal) and he scored 41 goals in 42 games the following season for Bremen.

There are hidden consistency attributes though and stuff like that - Kuranyi always performs well for Schalke in my game, whereas Mario Gomez who looks at least as good by attributes (and scouts say he's great etc etc) was appallingly inconsistent for me. Likewise Dimitar Berbatov at Fiorentina irritates me no end. He hit 24 goals this season, but in half the league games he was hopeless.

Not quite sure what my overall point from those examples is, mostly just though that there are so many factors to take into account that you can make big mistakes signing players whatever method you use if they just don't fit in your team for whatever reason or are way too inconsistent (although obviously a scouting program will reveal those hidden attributes anyway if you take that route)

[millsy1982]

I have used the Genie before. Upon first buying the game I would play my own game and find my own players etc... Then curiosity took over and I wondered if I was missing any amazing players.

One thing I would say though, the young Brazilian left back (Marchelo), his stats look great, his CA and PA are both very good, but look closely enough and you see that his tackling is 10 and his marking is 10. Now he might be great technically and have pace to burn, but at the end of the day he is a defender and IMO a defender should be able to mark and tackle. So is too much emphasis put on CA and PA, IMO yes.

[kancit5667]

I don't really use Genie Scout or FMM that much other than to check up on my team from time to time and to make sure my scouts are doing their job correctly. Helps in that capacity. How a player actually performs seems to be a combination of attributes and playing in the right system for them rather than CA/PA.

In my current Celtic game, I had a 23 year old striker who absolutely tore up European football. Two years in a row he won the award for Europe's top scorer. In the second year of that run he scored 89 goals on the season and also was the top scorer in the CL. It seemed like he was getting hat tricks every third game. Anyway, checked on him with FMM and his CA/PA was 166/169. Good for the SPL, not great. Certainly not great for the CL. His value to me was listed at $15.75 million in game. (I'm American, I use dollars for value since I'm used to it.) After the second season, Liverpool offered $58 million for him and the player's agent said he wanted to talk to them. So I made a nice bit of cash.

[AcidBurn]

I recently signed a striker called Saddick Adams for my QPR team he played for Portsmouth who bought him from Athletico Madrid I think. In his first season for Portsmouth he finished as top scoreer in the Prem and averaged a 7.8 scoring 35 goals but they were still relegated. I bought him and he has scored a goal a game for me and cost £14.5 million. I was shocked to see his PA was only 159 but he was awesome because he had good pace, acceleration, finishing, composure and first touch.

His CA was 155 and he was out doing other players with CA's of 180 plus.

[phnompenhandy]

They are useful tools but not totally reliable.

CA has far less effect on a player than in previous versions, and now the actual spread of attributes, form, morale etc count for far more.

Genie takes into account the most important attributes for it's own rating, as does FMM, but neither are that accurate, especially as the 8.0.2 patch factored in one- or two-footedness to be an important factor.

As Spurs manager my nemesis is flippin' Adebayor who gets Player of the Year awards year in year out, yet his 'scouting' ratings are by no means the best.

[Themistofelis]

I use FMM for excessive cheating .
I use position cheat to make my crap players super and sell them for many millions abroad.
I also keep one "fixed" striker on my bench to solve "super goalie" problem.

Truth is that some players can perform very good even with low CA/PA .It is all up to the style, for example a fast striker with agility , speed , pace , dribbling can kick some serious rear even with CA 130 , even in the CL if you play him correctly.

[Neji]

I haven't read all of the responses here but I tend to have what I call a 'cheat game' with each new version of FM. I use Genie Scout but tend to stay away from FMM for other than checking (ie, no actual game editing).

So in these cheat games I use Genie scout as my only source of scouting, I search by CA and /or PA. And filter the results from highest down. The thing is when using it, I always look for the high PA/CA and then look at stats and if they are not good enough in key attribrutes, then I ignore them. So for me, it has no way to hinder my performance but I have no doubt that if I bought a player with the highest CA/PA then it would probably be a bad decision. In these games, I often look at the worlds best player (ie highest CA) and for the most part they don't have great stats for all of their key stats.

The way I use it totally devalues my cheat games as it becomes very easy, especially as you can look at future stats too. In my normal games, I start from the bottom doing LLM (well, not 100% LLM because I don't agree with some rules).

[JumbledSausage]

It depends on what you want/like.

I have used the scouting tools in the past when I wanted to and enjoyed great success, winning pretty much everything.

However, at the moment I'm doing a career game that I'm enjoying (in 2042 at the moment) and having similar results by utilising the scouting system to find great young players and building teams up to be world-beaters that way.

[ZJ]

I think one the key things is that high PA players have the possibility to become better, but that assumes they have equal stats to begin with.

There seem to be a very weird connection between PA and stats as well as I've got a PA 120 player with stats that makes him look like a PA 150-160 player. Not sure how that works out.

Anyway, most positions only need about half of the stats they have, so if they have 20 on all those, 1 in everything else they can get away with having PA 150 instead of 200 and still outperform pretty much anyone in that role. Who cares if your central defenders got 1 for finishing, corners, throw-ins and free kicks? That saves some PA which can be used instead to push up the vital attributes.

[Tru_sparky]

I agree with skogmantore i think that if a player has a PA of 180 in FMM or Genie the stats dont really mean a player is better that player with a PA of 160 there are a numbers of factors that need to be looked at as the PA is only the potential and may never be reached.

Also depending on type of player i.e if a striker has low composure he is more likely to miss chances regardless of his PA. overall I dont think it gives you a adavantage purely on CA and PA stats other attributes are more important

[DrEdwierd]

I've had mixed results with FMM. I've used it on players Like Musacchio and ended up with great end players worth millions.

Then i've discovered Galvan and regens with pas 180+ who have developed hardly at all.

I sold Musacchio for 8mil at 20 but the others are worth like 1mil at the same age!

[Brend]

Anyway, most positions only need about half of the stats they have, so if they have 20 on all those, 1 in everything else they can get away with having PA 150 instead of 200 and still outperform pretty much anyone in that role. Who cares if your central defenders got 1 for finishing, corners, throw-ins and free kicks? That saves some PA which can be used instead to push up the vital attributes.

There are such things as "free" attributes for each position that don't take up any of a player's PA. Finishing, corners, throw-ins and free kicks are all free for central defenders, so they don't take up any PA anyways. There is a thread in the Tactics and Training forum about player ability and CA/PA that describes all of this in greater detail, if you feel inclined to look at it.

As for my experiences, I use Genie Scout, though I've never used FMM. I always check for CA/PA when I look to sign a player, but I'm very picky about who I sign. It's not enough that a player have a high PA-- he also needs to have high Consistency, Important Games, and not be all that injury prone. He's also got to have the required physical attributes to get in my first team-- I can't fathom ever allowing a player to play in my team without at least 15 Accel/Pace, unless he had remarkable technical attributes, and even then I'd only bend my rules if he had 13 Accel/Pace. Anything less is useless. Same goes with mental attrbutes-- I hate players with low Decisions and Composure, so most of my players are decisive and have a decent amount of composure, regardless of position.

My starting keeper on FM07 only has a PA of 161 or so, but he's got killer physical and mental stats and 17 Reflexes, so he's managed to see off the challenge of two English keeper regens with 185+ PAs who are both miles ahead of him technically, but his ability to handle pressure and his remarkable composure guarantee that he gets more clean sheets and rarely has a poor game.

[JRHaggs]

The CA/PA system is not a very good way to judge player utility.

A high CA means that the stat average is high. It says nothing of the player's ability to play any position well.

Anyone who's read Kipfizh's AI experiment is familiar with Maia, a new/regen who, despite a fully realized PA of 199, could never break the 7.0 AvR threshold. This was because his stats were distributed very evenly, meaning that the stat concentration necessary to be elite at any position was lacking.

Anyone who is looking at CA/PA is using some third-party database analysis software (Genie Scout or whatever). Try sorting by positional ratings. You'll find that, even at the start of the game, many of the best players at any position may only have PAs of 170. This is because, despite an overall lower average stat rating, their stats are concentrated in such a way that allows them to excel in specific roles or positions.

Make sense?

[davidoff21]

I use genie scout unashamedly for lower league clubs it's a god send for the struggling manager. A tight budget, results havn't been going you're way but you know that when January comes around you can buy that 19 year old from Slovenia who is 2 leagues ahead ability wise but is unknown in-game. Really satisfying even if it is frowned upon.

[ZJ]

Originally posted by Brend:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Anyway, most positions only need about half of the stats they have, so if they have 20 on all those, 1 in everything else they can get away with having PA 150 instead of 200 and still outperform pretty much anyone in that role. Who cares if your central defenders got 1 for finishing, corners, throw-ins and free kicks? That saves some PA which can be used instead to push up the vital attributes.

There are such things as "free" attributes for each position that don't take up any of a player's PA. Finishing, corners, throw-ins and free kicks are all free for central defenders, so they don't take up any PA anyways. There is a thread in the Tactics and Training forum about player ability and CA/PA that describes all of this in greater detail, if you feel inclined to look at it.

As for my experiences, I use Genie Scout, though I've never used FMM. I always check for CA/PA when I look to sign a player, but I'm very picky about who I sign. It's not enough that a player have a high PA-- he also needs to have high Consistency, Important Games, and not be all that injury prone. He's also got to have the required physical attributes to get in my first team-- I can't fathom ever allowing a player to play in my team without at least 15 Accel/Pace, unless he had remarkable technical attributes, and even then I'd only bend my rules if he had 13 Accel/Pace. Anything less is useless. Same goes with mental attrbutes-- I hate players with low Decisions and Composure, so most of my players are decisive and have a decent amount of composure, regardless of position.

My starting keeper on FM07 only has a PA of 161 or so, but he's got killer physical and mental stats and 17 Reflexes, so he's managed to see off the challenge of two English keeper regens with 185+ PAs who are both miles ahead of him technically, but his ability to handle pressure and his remarkable composure guarantee that he gets more clean sheets and rarely has a poor game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you have the link to that threat about "free" attributes? Sounds like an interesting read. If they are free, there is still things like Marking, tackling for attackers who while they can probably be usefull every now and then, generally are not (unless they are free for them too )

I fully agree with you Brend, good physical stats is really important although I'm Accel/Pace 10 is enough for me for central midfielders (I play with 2 quite defensive ones), 12-13 for my defensive ML/MR but for everyone else 15 is minimum. I have exceptions for defenders with awesome positioning, anticipation, jumping, heading a couple of times when I was struggling with conceeding headers.

I almost never sign anyone who the scouts come up with as "may be suscepible to injuries" and definatley not "real problems with injuries" unless I just buy them to sell them on later. This effectively rules out about half of all players though .

Decisions and Determination is my two key attributes. In my experience players with crap attributes but good Decisions still generally do quite well. Players and more importantly a team with high Determination will win games in addition to high Det. ensuring that the players develop quicker when they are young.

For strikers, consistency is what I'm looking for. A consistent striker with decent attributes for its league is good for 20 goals as season, more if he is actually good. For goalkeepers you want both consistency and big match but given that I generally play at lower levels I seldom have the opportunity to choose . Obviously you want both.

I normally don't use 3rd party until I'm switching to the next edition of FM when I use it to check my favorite regens to see if they are any good. In this save I've started to use it to look at my own players to track their development to learn how efficient reserve games/loans etc is but I don't check until after I've bought them.

[Themistofelis]

FMM is great to shape young player's starting stats according to their position , just remember that there is a fixed amount of stat points per CA level and some matter more than others ( for example you can not take 100 points of long throws and add them to passing ) and some attributes don't use any of the fixed points ( you can add 80 pts in consistency without losing anything on the other skills ).
Also players with PA edited at 999 will keep on leveling very fast after 200 but their skills will not rise no matter what.

In general what i look 1st is speed , all of my players and specially the defenders have to be fast ( Acc 16 at least ).
Talking about CA / performance , my 30 year old striker Michalis Konstantinou is a medium player 140/145 but he can score loads of goals both in Greek champ and the CL if i play him together with guys like Wagner Love ( fast , agile , dribblers ) , some Germans with far better stats and CA ( like this Kiesling guy) are not half as good .
I bet realism lovers will love the fact that a cheap low profile signing can turn up super for the club if played correctly .

[knap]

As you can search Genie Scout by attribute, positional rating, as well as CA PA it's a big help in saving time spent scouting.

[Brend]

Do you have the link to that threat about "free" attributes? Sounds like an interesting read. If they are free, there is still things like Marking, tackling for attackers who while they can probably be usefull every now and then, generally are not (unless they are free for them too Smile )

This thread has got all of the research that has been done on current ability and attributes research. Much of it is conjecture, but from the questions and theories that have been posited, they've found out a lot of good information. I think it's only fair to give you a spoiler warning-- it'll expose you to a lot of the in-game mechanics, but if you're comfortable with that, it makes for a very interesting read, and it'll help you create a much more efficient team.

As you can search Genie Scout by attribute, positional rating, as well as CA PA it's a big help in saving time spent scouting.

You can also edit the settings in Genie Scout to change how attributes are weighted in the formula that comes up with a positional rating. For example, I increased the value of composure, determination, consistency and important matches across the board, and tweaked a few other settings for each position. It allows you to find players more easily who suit your tactics, which saves a tremendous amount of time.

[phnompenhandy]

Originally posted by knap:
As you can search Genie Scout by attribute, positional rating, as well as CA PA it's a big help in saving time spent scouting.

Yes, up to a point. What this whole thread is indicating in detail is that they are not wholly reliable. The next version of Genie is due to take appropriate account of one- or two-footedness, which has a major effect since 8.0.2. That should increase its reliability a lot.

[sherica-]

Stats > PA

[phnompenhandy]

Originally posted by sherica-:
Stats > PA

you mean attributes

Stats = how many successful throw-ins etc.