Player Tutoring

[crouchaldinho]

This is a subject which has come up numerous times and I don't think it has ever been answered successfully.

A number of people seem to think that the various tutoring options all do different things. I think the general consensus in the past has been:

- Ideal role model: player personality and PPMs
- Learn approach: player personality only
- Learn from: PPMs only

Other users have previously suggested that this is a typical FM myth, and that the truth is that all three options do the same thing.

I'm finding tutoring a painful experience, so very hit and miss. A lot of the time, I feel that I am working in the dark.

Has anyone actually got any evidence as to what the options do?

If not, I'm determined to get to the bottom of it. Does anyone want to join me in testing the various options and posting up the results?

This comes after having a very talented looking defender come through the ranks at my Saints team with an 'unambitious' personality. I really need to find out the best methods to bring his personality in line with the rest of my team.

Thanks for any replies.

Regards,
C.

[Suttface]

I'm with you on this, it really does seem a complete stab in the dark at the moment. I have no idea what the outcome will be when I suggest that X tutors Y. Sometimes it is very successful, sometimes a disaster. Would be good to have some hard evidence.

[rinso]

While I don't have any evidence to support it, I have always thought that it works pretty much as you outlined, ie.

Ideal role model = ppm's and personality.
Learn/adopt approach = personality
Learn from = ppm's

It IS very hit and miss, even when you try and "match" player peronalities up, it can be a very frustrating experience.

I'd love to see some evidence/test results to see if it can actually be fathomed out!

[CaptainPlanet]

As random as half-time teamtalks.

[crouchaldinho]

Well, I've tested 'learn/adopt approach', the middle option, and that definitely changes personality because my formerly determined player became resolute like his tutor.

Another one of my youngsters was also on 'learn/adopt' but he had a clash with his tutor and his personality didn't change at all. Couldn't really come to a conclusion about why this happened.

Got one of my other youngsters on 'role model'. Only just started this but we will see. He is currently 'unambitious' so the key thing is to change his personality. His tutor also has PPMs though so we'll see if he can pick them up.

Certainly the wording when you select to tutor seems to suggest that what rinso and I think is correct. When I tried 'ideal role model', it said that my player will learn 'some additional movement' and also adjust 'his mentality off the pitch'.

I'll report back on any findings.

Regards,
C.

[crouchaldinho]

Okay, so played a bit last night and my central defender who was 'unambitious' is now 'fairly determined' in just a few weeks!

Not only that but he has picked up a PPM from his tutor.

This was using the 'ideal role model' so it seems to me that this option definitely changes personality and PPMs together.

Anyone else testing this out?

Regards,
C.

[rinso]

I'll give it a go on 08, just got a half decent batch of youngsters through, so we'll see what happens with these.

Edit: has it been fixed on 09 so you can get AM/FC to tutor strikers?? Its a real pain not being able to have Aguero tutor any of my strikers.

[Cougar2010]

This is Lyssien's personality guide thread: Guide

I can't find it in that thread but I'm fairly certain Lyssien did some tests on the different options as well and the results showed virtually no difference between the three.


In terms of your player above that has changed personality though:

Players can fall into several personality categories but only one is shown. Lyssien has listed some of these at the bottom of his first post but I don't think anyone has done a full list of the order.

Your player was "unambitious" which is ambition < 6.

From tutoring he has now improved to 6 or better (Most likely given the time he was a 5 and increased to 6 though). Looking at his other personality traits he now falls into the fairly determined category which he was probably part of anyway (just not shown).

[CaptainPlanet]

I've never seen a steady improvement as part of tutoring, only a big boost/change when it came to an end (in terms of personality and stats, PPMs get learnt throughout) so I'm thinking the personality change that quick might have just been from him developing

Is the youngster playing games?

[crouchaldinho]

He played a few pre-season games, appearing as a substitute. His personality changed in around 4 to 6 weeks of pre-season.

What Cougar said makes sense.

C.

[pires29]

I've just signed a young 17 year old Italian regen whos' personality is "model-professional". I was under the impression that tutoring caused a players mental attributes to increase in similar areas as the player who is doing the tutoring.

From what has been said am I right in thinking that it is best to not get the player tutored and let his mental attributes increase naturally?

[Cougar2010]

I've just signed a young 17 year old Italian regen whos' personality is "model-professional". I was under the impression that tutoring caused a players mental attributes to increase in similar areas as the player who is doing the tutoring.

From what has been said am I right in thinking that it is best to not get the player tutored and let his mental attributes increase naturally?

In short, yes just leave him be.

The only thing to consider is if there are any PPMs you want him to have but you would need a very good tutor with the right PPMs to even consider this.

[The Gaffovski]

Slightly off-topic, but wouldn't it be great to have some feedback on how the tutoring is going before the two players have a bust-up? Like, player A has approached you today to express his concerns at the tutoring underway. He has warned you that there is a risk of the players ending up severely disliking each other.

Choose:

(a) Insist they continue regardless.
(b) End the tutoring.

I mean, a manager should be able to notice what's up between two players at the training ground etc. And take emergency action. Not have the bad news come as a complete shock.

Way too random right now. And the occurrence of two players severely disliking each other is way too common as compared to real life.

Nice thread by the way. I'll pose a question which is more closely related to this topic -

Is it true that the "learn from player" option lasts for less time? And would it be good to do all new tutoring partnerships on this setting FIRST, and if successful then you can choose one of the longer tutoring options for the same players?

[Brian Shanahan]

Where I find tutoring very useful is in the are of developing positive relationships with players. In my (now deceased) Barcelona save I had about 2/3 of the first team and 3/4 of my youths listing me as favoured personnel, after about 3 years. I even had a number of players whom I had quite callously got rid of still liking me.

[charlo116]

As long as the youth player is a MC im not having problems with tutoring, just let Gerrard do it and their determination shoots to 20, as well as a general improvement in other attributes. I actually haven't had any tutoring fail with Gerrard.

[Veg]

I've tested the Tutoring as Crouchaldinho says the three options does the same. The tutoring is totally random. I saved the game at the start of it and then copied the savegames several times. I tried the three options twice twice from the start of the game always combining the same players. Then loaded genie Scout wathced the history points. And it was a different development every time. I also found out that every player had some development during the period they were tutored.

I also did find out about was that if a player learned som PPM's he declared that he was happy with the learning experience. If he didn't learn any PPM's th player was dissapointed even if his personality had improved a lot. I had one player were all the hidden stats improved and the players ability to handle pressure was improved by 6 points and even then he was dissapointed...

I also had one player were the tutoring ended early because of a personality clash, and that he didn't see any point with the learning.. The fun part here was that during those couple of months before he ended his tutirng, his determination rose with two points. Professionalism and pressure handling by 1 point and temperament with 3 points. Also when I checked there was at maximum three points difference between the personality stats of the two players, so there wasn't a to bigg difference in their personality so a clash should be justified.

My conlusion therefor was that even if the player is dissapointed about the tutoring it seems to me that most of the tutoring was beneficial for the youngster.

[TheMister]

Well done Veg.

It's an area of the game which needs 'tidied up'. Everyone is unsure of the effects of each type of suggestion to tutoring. And as it turns out, there's no difference.

[Veg]

I agree with you there. I really don't see any point having three options if they do the same thing. And as I sai when I did test the options they did the same thing. If someone wants me to explain in detail what I did I can do that, later today, but I won't do it unless I'm asked.

[phnompenhandy]

I'm really hoping that this is one of the areas that has been 'polished' for FM10. At least have the assman in the backroom advice recommend who to tutor and what kind of tutoring. PLEASE!!!!

[TheMister]

I'm really hoping that this is one of the areas that has been 'polished' for FM10. At least have the assman in the backroom advice recommend who to tutor and what kind of tutoring. PLEASE!!!!

I've noticed on a screenshot in the Wiki that this is indeed the case. And the recommendation also said 'would be an ideal role model for'.