German Club reputation Drop bug since fm07.

First of all i am not sure if this is really a bug so i try to post in GQ section.

What i have noticed is, at the end of each German league season, there is a random drop in German club reputation.

You can easily check this out if you are playing in the German league. Everytime you complete the season, make a save at around 25-May and record the reputation of the top teams such as Werder Bremen, HSV and Schalke (They all have continental reputation at the beginning of game, it will be better if you use FFM so you can record the exact reputation they got)

Then, after 1-June, you check again with these clubs you will notice they drop 200~300 reputation points for no reason.

This is something different from the reputation adjustment according with the finished league position, which only happened for the new season while the game update with a clean new league table.

I have find this issue in FM07 after 10 seasons i notice all Germany club only have "National" as club reputation. Then i monitoring the game with FFM and find out this cause AND this reputation drop bug ONLY apply onto German clubs.

And now in FM08 i monitoring the reputation and again i spot the same bug applying on German clubs only.

With this bug after a few season the German clubs will be totally out of business as they can no longer keep or get good players with decreasing club reputation.

I really cant explain why this bug only occur on German clubs?

First of all i am not sure if this is really a bug so i try to post in GQ section.

What i have noticed is, at the end of each German league season, there is a random drop in German club reputation.

You can easily check this out if you are playing in the German league. Everytime you complete the season, make a save at around 25-May and record the reputation of the top teams such as Werder Bremen, HSV and Schalke (They all have continental reputation at the beginning of game, it will be better if you use FFM so you can record the exact reputation they got)

Then, after 1-June, you check again with these clubs you will notice they drop 200~300 reputation points for no reason.

This is something different from the reputation adjustment according with the finished league position, which only happened for the new season while the game update with a clean new league table.

I have find this issue in FM07 after 10 seasons i notice all Germany club only have "National" as club reputation. Then i monitoring the game with FFM and find out this cause AND this reputation drop bug ONLY apply onto German clubs.

And now in FM08 i monitoring the reputation and again i spot the same bug applying on German clubs only.

With this bug after a few season the German clubs will be totally out of business as they can no longer keep or get good players with decreasing club reputation.

I really cant explain why this bug only occur on German clubs?

And i might need some support on this issue to prove it is not only for my games. (it somehow happens in all of my games in fm07 and 08, so i believe it should be a unnoticed common issue)

If would be great if you can check this out if you are playing the german league currently. Thank you.

You may be onto something here. I'm currently in the 2013/14 season and all the German top division teams' reputation is 'National' apart from Bayern who are 'Continental'.

Dortmund even won the UEFA Cup about 4-5 seasons ago which makes their reputation quite baffling.

I've seen it mentioned regards to France before. The teams are set with a reputation higher than the league, so after a season and its all calculated automatically, big teams in France and Germany particularly suffer reputation drops. I think someone worked out it was possible to win everything, Champions League and all with Lyon before and still have reputation go down.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Oktober:

I've seen it mentioned regards to France before. The teams are set with a reputation higher than the league, so after a season and its all calculated automatically, big teams in France and Germany particularly suffer reputation drops. I think someone worked out it was possible to win everything, Champions League and all with Lyon before and still have reputation go down. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly, in FM07 i was playing as Werder Bremen and win 7 league title and 4 champion league clubs. But somehow my club reputation stay national with all other german clubs. Thats why i start to monitoring the club reputation with FFM and find out why.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> The teams are set with a reputation higher than the league, so after a season and its all calculated automatically, big teams in France and Germany particularly suffer reputation drops. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

However, i think this is not entirely true as the reputation drop happen in some random way.

At the end of each season i will record all the club reputation among the 18 german clubs in the first division. Then after 1-june, i check it again and notice some clubs have major drop like 200~300 points, BUT SOME CLUBS WONT DROP AT ALL .

In fm08, In my first season, Schalke among some other smaller team didnt suffer from the drop but Bayern, Bremen, HSV, Dortmund, Hertha all drop like 200~300 points each.

But down from my fm07 experience this thing is still random. For example even Schalke dont suffer from the reputation drop this season, they might suffer in the next season for some reason.

Reputation isnt just winning though, big name signings help. If you get a big American or Japanese player for example, that'd help open those markets and improve your club reputation. As far as I'm aware, anyway.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Oktober:

Reputation isnt just winning though, big name signings help. If you get a big American or Japanese player for example, that'd help open those markets and improve your club reputation. As far as I'm aware, anyway. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not really, at least it didnt happen in my game. Even i make some big name 30mil signing my reputation didnt change at all. (checking with FFM)

Just completed my second season with Werder Bremen in the German league and this is my finding with FFM.

Club (reputation on 12/5/09 --> reputation on 24/5/09)

Werder Bremen (7964 --> 7587)

Bayern (8009 --> 7603)

Stuttgart (7487 -->7081)

HSV (7494 -->7097)

Dortmund (6887 --> 6585)

Wolfsburg (6315 -->5987)

Karlsruhe (5785 -->5549)

** Schalke (7956 -->7956) Unchanged

** Leverkusen (6959 -->6959) Unchanged

All other clubs reputation unchanged

As you can see, there is some serious drop in reputation like 200~400 for some clubs.

If the club reputation of German clubs is adjusted/dropped according with the league standard/reputation, then why would Schalke and Leverkusen's reputation remind unchanged? And why would smaller clubs with low reputation such as Wolfsburg and Karlsruhe suffer reputation drop??

I really cant figure out why is those drop exsit but you can predict in 2 to 3 seasons there will be no more continental German clubs if their reputation drop as crazy as this!

I wish SI can explain the mechanism of this reputation drops for German Clubs (or French Clubs as well which i am not sure), if they works as intended.

If this is actually a bug then i hope SI can fix this as it exists since FM07 but still in FM08.

It happend to me very frustating...

It's been pointed out in France and a couple of other leagues as well (Holland is another example I believe).

I've pointed out that while playing a longer game in Ireland that it's impossible for teams from smaller leagues to progress.

Because club rep resets to a league max at the end of the season it means that if you do well in Europe and at home you can sign good players during the season, but when rep resets everyone wants to leave ad players you bought for one million who are playing champs league football and earning £6k a week want to leave you to play for £700 a week for Swindon because they believe it a 'step up'.

For me it's the most frustrating problem with the game.

Once a team reaches a certain size/value it should be exempt from league restrictions on rep. Top leagues in many countries like Scotland, Holland, Belgium, etc aren't regarded as world class quality but good players would have no problem IRL signing for the likes of Celtic and Ajax.

If a side from any non-world class league became the equivilent of Rangers and Ajax in terms of size and value there's no reason why they shouldn't be able to sign equal players, have the same expectations and budgets in terms of FM.

As it currently stands you can't as it resets at the end of every season.

I can still accept that if my clubs reputation will be reshape according with the league standard.

But in my example just given, why would Schalke and Leverkusen doesnt get their reputation reshaped like the other teams does? Schalke get a reputation of 7956 and Bayern have 8009, if the club reputation need to be reshaped then both of them should be.

And why would smaller team like Karlsruhe, which have only 5785 reputation have to be reshaped but Leverkusen with 6959 doesnt? And why all other smaller teams dont get any reshaped?

Perhaps SI did explain this issue before if it had been pointed out. It will be great if somebody could point me out, thx.

Losing reputation is just stupid .

Clubs that do well in the championship will gain reputation points till they reach the cap , in Germany the league has a value of 15 , in Norway it is 9 so no matter how many times you win eurocups you will always be a plebe .

League reputation is STATIC and affects in a negative way all leagues with a value of 15 or less , for example in spain , italy & england wining 2 championships will make a medium reputation team as famous as Bayern Munich if not more.

ye its so annoying! The German League becomes so poor with time!

I use Bayern and later on teams like Villareal, Marseille etc are "bigger" than Bayern! @@@$@$##$!!! and IMHO English teams are so overrated in this game! 7 seasons in the game, 6 English teams win the CL and 1 Italian. No matter how strong my Bayern team is, i will always HAVE to lose to teams like Madrid and Chelsea even though on paper my team is stronger! I lost to Chelsea 5-1 and had a better team. I hate this crap.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Themistofelis:

Losing reputation is just stupid .

Clubs that do well in the championship will gain reputation points till they reach the cap , in Germany the league has a value of 15 , in Norway it is 9 so no matter how many times you win eurocups you will always be a plebe .

League reputation is STATIC and affects in a negative way all leagues with a value of 15 or less , for example in spain , italy & england wining 2 championships will make a medium reputation team as famous as Bayern Munich if not more. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is one of the biggest problems with the game. I like playing in Norway as it provides a good challenge. I have won EVERYTHING in my 5 years as Rosenborg. Still my reputation makes it hard to sign and keep players. They regularly say they want to go and win cups but I have won the last 4 Champions Leagues.

Since this issue exist since FM07 and being untouched in FM08, i think we would have little chance for any "fix" of "change" for that.

However, it will be a different story if this happen in the English Premier League.

Of course there is the alternative solution , give all championships a rate of 17 , you have to do it manually but i will not take you more than 20'

A rate between 18-20 will sky rocket all league's reputations and after 2 years your Norwegian league will no longer look as Norwegian league.

A rate between 14-16 is too low i think 17 is okay.

A little tip ( for fm07) , if you give very high value(19) to inactive leagues in developing countries (lets say Russia-Ukraine-Romania) and same reputation to the rest of Europe (17) the market will be much more active than it usually is and Eastern European clubs will be interesting in buying your medium talent players.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Themistofelis:

Of course there is the alternative solution , give all championships a rate of 17 , you have to do it manually but i will not take you more than 20'

A rate between 18-20 will sky rocket all league's reputations and after 2 years your Norwegian league will no longer look as Norwegian league.

A rate between 14-16 is too low i think 17 is okay.

A little tip ( for fm07) , if you give very high value(19) to inactive leagues in developing countries (lets say Russia-Ukraine-Romania) and same reputation to the rest of Europe (17) the market will be much more active than it usually is and Eastern European clubs will be interesting in buying your medium talent players. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So if i edit the league reputation to be 17 then i would not suffer the problem?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

League reputation is STATIC and affects in a negative way all leagues with a value of 15 or less , for example in spain , italy & england wining 2 championships will make a medium reputation team as famous as Bayern Munich if not more. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you sure league reputation is static? I remember the german league standard improve to 20 after 10 season in my fm07 game, not too sure about league reputation tho.

I just have a quick look with FMM and all i can find about a country is League Standard but not league reputation. Are they the same thing or i can only access and change the league reputation with the SI editor??

There are 2 values

Nation league standard which changes

and

Bundesliga standard which does not

Your reputation points are relying on the Bundesliga standard , check "competitions" and search for "german" to find it .

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Themistofelis:

There are 2 values

Nation league standard which changes

and

Bundesliga standard which does not

Your reputation points are relying on the Bundesliga standard , check "competitions" and search for "german" to find it . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thx for the info.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Themistofelis:

Of course there is the alternative solution , give all championships a rate of 17 , you have to do it manually but i will not take you more than 20'

A rate between 18-20 will sky rocket all league's reputations and after 2 years your Norwegian league will no longer look as Norwegian league.

A rate between 14-16 is too low i think 17 is okay.

A little tip ( for fm07) , if you give very high value(19) to inactive leagues in developing countries (lets say Russia-Ukraine-Romania) and same reputation to the rest of Europe (17) the market will be much more active than it usually is and Eastern European clubs will be interesting in buying your medium talent players. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have you tried the "17-rule" with different leagues? Has it worked properly?

I too have been toying around with that but I didn't get to any sort of conclusion really.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by aenariel:

Have you tried the "17-rule" with different leagues? Has it worked properly?

I too have been toying around with that but I didn't get to any sort of conclusion really. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have tried it with Norwegian, Greek and Belgian Leagues and it works okay ,of course you still hit the cap but since it is highly unusual to win European competitions every now and then with those clubs reputation climbs in a realistic way.

Given the fact that you do play in Eurocups the points you lose after ~8.800 can be covered by winning against clubs from Spain, Italy etc.

Still it is not perfect but 16 is devastating and 18 makes domestic transfer marker totally stall; specially in Greece and Belgium where most of the players are mediocre.

The non active league clubs as you may know are only affected in the transfers , not reputation.

Yea.

I'm trying it out and it seems that 17 league rep makes the cap stand at about 8500 (if you transform the 0-10000 scale to a 0-20 scale not surprisingly it makes the cap stand at 17 ). Following that train of thought, a 16 league rep makes the cap stand at about 8000, 15 > 7500, etc.. Of course, this only applies to the top team of that league. The lowest ranked team has about 6000. 6000 = 12, so we might wonder, there's probably a 5-step rule, whereas the top team in a league will have its cap set at league_rep*500 and the lowest-ranked team only at (league_rep-5)*500.

Hope this makes sense.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by aenariel:

Yea.

I'm trying it out and it seems that 17 league rep makes the cap stand at about 8500 (if you transform the 0-10000 scale to a 0-20 scale not surprisingly it makes the cap stand at 17 ). Following that train of thought, a 16 league rep makes the cap stand at about 8000, 15 > 7500, etc.. Of course, this only applies to the top team of that league. The lowest ranked team has about 6000. 6000 = 12, so we might wonder, there's probably a 5-step rule, whereas the top team in a league will have its cap set at league_rep*500 and the lowest-ranked team only at (league_rep-5)*500.

Hope this makes sense. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It sounds reasonable , of course i do need more testing .

I don't think that there is a "low" rank , in some of my games 4.000 reputation clubs promoted in 1st division and finishing just above relegation line got them at 4.500 or a bit more . Of course all depends from where you started , i will run a hands off game at night and keep detailed notes .

I'm holdaying a game where ALL leagues have 17 rep at the moment. Surprisingly the second-best league seems to have a cap at 7500 and not 8500 - that may be explained by its order, as the 3rd best-league seems to have a 6500 cap. Maybe a set 1000 difference?

I do think there's a lower cap, at least a cap that says that "if higher > lower cap then no rep gain".

While not everyone might play with the icelandic league this issue effects that league a lot. To the point where it's almost impossible (even by winning the league year after year) to not have a drop of reputation.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Francis Cole:

While not everyone might play with the icelandic league this issue effects that league a lot. To the point where it's almost impossible (even by winning the league year after year) to not have a drop of reputation. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Indeed. Playing with Valur on FM07, despite being a team that performed very well on the champions league, I still would suffer immense rep drops every season after the league ended.

Another problem is that you only gain reputation by performing well on an international competition if you win it or reach the final. Advancing to a later phase should also award you rep gains, but it just doesn't. That doesn't make much sense IMHO.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by aenariel:

Indeed. Playing with Valur on FM07, despite being a team that performed very well on the champions league, I still would suffer immense rep drops every season after the league ended.

Another problem is that you only gain reputation by performing well on an international competition if you win it or reach the final. Advancing to a later phase should also award you rep gains, but it just doesn't. That doesn't make much sense IMHO. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly. Another funny thing is, you gain no reputation by winning any domestic cup competition.

I think it is pretty unfair that no matter how good your team perform in international/european stages, if you are not playing in English, Italian or English league, your club reputation get no way to improve in the long term.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rickooko:

I think it is pretty unfair that no matter how good your team perform in international/european stages, if you are not playing in English, Italian or English league, your club reputation get no way to improve in the long term. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

English, Italian and *Spanish league