FM Careers Forum Discussion

[SnakeXe]

No need to throw up strawmen. Scholes retired 6 months ago and has been working out since with the players, and have not had any big injury concerns. Keane and Solskjær retired years ago and had fairly big injuries, particularly Solskjær who retired due to knee problems, and both have been involved in management since.

I don't think anybody are expecting Scholes to be an important player for United now, it's basically a stop-gap solution to help out with the huge amount of injuries that have piled up this season. In addition, he missed playing football at this level so it's not a bad solution while United wait for hopefully sorting out a proper midfield signing in the summer when prices are more reasonable than in January and players and clubs are more willing to move on/sell.

Don't think Scholes cares one iota about his legacy being tarnished or not tbh. He lives for football and his family. Nothing else. Besides, he wouldn't want to do this if he felt he was out of the PL's league. He's been training with United players afterall so will have a fairly decent idea of where he's at.

Pogba and Morrison will get their chances later. They were junior players last season, first senior year for them this season so it's mostly about learning their trade. I'm sure they'll learn a lot from having a player like Scholes in the first team training properly now. Apparently what he does in training is unreal, ask any current or former United player.

I don't quite understand why you find this so laughable and pathetic tbh. It's not like he'll come in and be expected to set the place on fire, but it's another body to play in midfield, and one that knows the club, league tactics inside out. Of course it would be preferable with a top shelf midfield signing, but when that didn't happen last summer I don't expect anything to happen until the next.

They're not strawmen, I'm just genuinely asking: at what point after retirement does it become folly to return? Would you accept Gary Neville coming back if one of the club's right backs were injured (proportionally the same effect as 2 midfielders injured accepting a 3-man midfield and two players for every position) and he'd kept up his fitness?

Again you're stating "huge amount of injuries" - there aren't. Two players are injured in his position. The squad is deficient in central midfield but it's not because of injuries.

My opinion is that he was finished about half-way through last season and basically limped on until the end before retiring with good grace. To come back now is folly on his and the club's part - his legs are done. The Guardian Football Weekly podcast (fairly reliable AFAIK) this Monday said he hadn't been training with the Man Utd first team - the first they knew about it was seeing him in the dressing room and on the team sheet before the City game.

Pogba has been making noises about leaving the club at the end of his contract, which expires in the summer, due to lack of opportunities. If all you need is a bit part player and you truly believe in your young player's potential, you wouldn't bring back a guy who retired bang on time. Fair enough point about his example in training, but he's been coaching since retiring, why not just stick with that?

I can see the potential positives in the deal assuming he's still at a decent level, but from watching him towards the back end of last season he really was so far gone that I don't think he's any better use than a kid, and at least the kid has the potential to improve. That's why I think it's stupid.

Fundamentally I think it comes down to you thinking he can still do a job that Pogba/Morrison can't and me thinking he can't. Think we'll probably have to agree to disagree on this one

[SnakeXe]

TBH, who is really interested in Scholes coming out of retirement at Man United anyway? Not me.

I'm more excited by 43-year-old, Paul Furlong, turning out for St. Albans City this season. What a legend!

It's an interesting debate, it doesn't really effect me as Newcastle have already played them twice

How are the Saints getting on this year?

[AcidBurn]

I don't really care if Scholes has come out of retirement but it is a good talking point. If I was a Man United fan I would be worried that we were relying on a 37 year old to come out of retirement to play for the club, I would much prefer to see an 18 year old given a chance.

[HotChocolate]

I've bunged you a fiver as well

Thank you so much D! Means a lot.

As for the Scholes debate, I have to agree with Snake on the Pogba/Morrison issue, especially Pogba, I saw him last year in the Youth Cup final and okay, he was against Sheff Utd's youth but he was fantastic, controlled the midfield and would be as useful as Scholes at this time.

[AK22]

It certainly has a strong whiff of desperation, and I'm not convinced that a midfield already containing a 38 year old can be improved that much by the introduction of another player approaching 40.

If I was a Man Utd fan, I'd be pretty concerned by the whole scenario.

Firstly, why isn't one of the youngster given a chance? Surely, this says a lot about the quality of youth coming through the system at Old Trafford if Fergie isn't willing to risk it for a handful of games. After all, with Anderson returning, and the absence of Champions League football, it's only most likely to be a few Europa League matches and the odd cameo off the bench.

Secondly, if central midfield was always going to be a risk area, why didn't Fergie sign someone in the summer just gone? He was prepared to release Hargreaves, a player with a horrific injury back catalogue, but still an England international, and arguably England's best player at the 2006 World Cup, and the retirement of Paul Scholes couldn't have come as too much of a shock. He's only got Cleverley and Fletcher missing, so it's hardly the worst injury crisis in the world, so I find that excuse a bit on the flimsy side.

I'm not convinced that Scholes' return can be compared to Henry's comeback at Arsenal either; Henry has been playing regular football for the past six months, and even though you can debate the quality of the MLS, it's still likely to be more competitive and physically intense than training with the Utd reserves.

That's my two-penneth's worth anyway

[SnakeXe]

Totally agree

[crouchaldinho]

It's an interesting debate, it doesn't really effect me as Newcastle have already played them twice

I was just making a joke to lighten the mood.

How are the Saints getting on this year?

The short version is first half of the season was disappointing but recently they've improved and come into form. Many Saints fans are hoping that we might make a late push for promotion.

Personally, I suspect that we currently aren't a million miles from where we will be at the end of the season (we're 10th).

Most realistic Saints fans will be happy with a top half finish and then a push for promotion next year. As most of you know, last season was one of the lowest points in the club's history. We have finally got rid of the old chairman and have new owners and a chairman who appear to be taking the club forward. Things are looking good off the pitch for the first time in a long while and so we're just hoping that the on the pitch will catch up soon.

[crouchaldinho]

I have a question for you guys: what do you all make of match preparation and how do you treat it? Do you do it yourself or set your assistant to do it?

Moving across to FM12 is my first proper encounter with it as I didn't really play FM11 much. To be honest, I don't really like it as it seems a bit superficial to me, but there we go.

So far, I have had my assistant doing it, but he doesn't seem to be changing it much. In fact, I think it has been on defensive positioning the whole season so far. I'm thinking of taking manual control as he doesn't seem to be doing anything with it.

Does it actually make much difference? Is it worth paying attention to?

Can anyone give me the low down on it? I'd be very grateful. In particular, what the workload refers to and how it impacts upon regular training.

Thanks in advance guys.

[SnakeXe]

I was just making a joke to lighten the mood.

Haha, fair enough! Hopefully not necessary though, certainly from my point of view it was just an enthusiastic debate rather than an argument.

The short version is first half of the season was disappointing but recently they've improved and come into form. Many Saints fans are hoping that we might make a late push for promotion.

Personally, I suspect that we currently aren't a million miles from where we will be at the end of the season (we're 10th).

Most realistic Saints fans will be happy with a top half finish and then a push for promotion next year. As most of you know, last season was one of the lowest points in the club's history. We have finally got rid of the old chairman and have new owners and a chairman who appear to be taking the club forward. Things are looking good off the pitch for the first time in a long while and so we're just hoping that the on the pitch will catch up soon.

That's good news - off-pitch turmoil can upset even the best teams, so I can definitely understand it being catastrophic in the lower leagues where the margins are often very small. Any reason you don't think the good recent form will continue into a playoff push, or just a gut feeling?

[SnakeXe]

I have a question for you guys: what do you all make of match preparation and how do you treat it? Do you do it yourself or set your assistant to do it?

Moving across to FM12 is my first proper encounter with it as I didn't really play FM11 much. To be honest, I don't really like it as it seems a bit superficial to me, but there we go.

So far, I have had my assistant doing it, but he doesn't seem to be changing it much. In fact, I think it has been on defensive positioning the whole season so far. I'm thinking of taking manual control as he doesn't seem to be doing anything with it.

Does it actually make much difference? Is it worth paying attention to?

Can anyone give me the low down on it? I'd be very grateful. In particular, what the workload refers to and how it impacts upon regular training.

Thanks in advance guys.

It can make a very big difference I think. I haven't quite worked out the balance of it on FM12 yet, though, so probably best you don't take my advice too much to heart.

Essentially I roughly follow the following:

• High workload when learning a new formation (ideally done in preseason), medium at all other times
• Focus on attacking movement for all home games
• Attacking movement for away games I expect to win easily
• Teamwork for away games I think we should win but might be tough
• Defensive positioning for all other situations

Bear in mind I've been managing sides who are expected to win most games for the past 6 or 7 seasons so it might not apply too much to lower league stuff now.

[crouchaldinho]

Haha, fair enough! Hopefully not necessary though, certainly from my point of view it was just an enthusiastic debate rather than an argument.

Oh yes, I didn't mean to indicate otherwise!

Really, I just wanted to mention Paul Furlong.

That's good news - off-pitch turmoil can upset even the best teams, so I can definitely understand it being catastrophic in the lower leagues where the margins are often very small. Any reason you don't think the good recent form will continue into a playoff push, or just a gut feeling?

It's a gut feeling and also the league is very tight with a number of teams that can beat each other on their day, if that makes sense.

I just have a feeling we won't have quite enough to get into the play-offs but we'll see. We're been playing well of late and I've been seeing a number of entertaining games down at Clarence Park and getting good value from my season ticket, so that's the main thing for this season really.

[crouchaldinho]

It can make a very big difference I think. I haven't quite worked out the balance of it on FM12 yet, though, so probably best you don't take my advice too much to heart.

Essentially I roughly follow the following:

• High workload when learning a new formation (ideally done in preseason), medium at all other times
• Focus on attacking movement for all home games
• Attacking movement for away games I expect to win easily
• Teamwork for away games I think we should win but might be tough
• Defensive positioning for all other situations

Bear in mind I've been managing sides who are expected to win most games for the past 6 or 7 seasons so it might not apply too much to lower league stuff now.

Is teamwork to contribute to team gelling?

Sounds like good logic to me.

[SnakeXe]

It's a gut feeling and also the league is very tight with a number of teams that can beat each other on their day, if that makes sense.

I just have a feeling we won't have quite enough to get into the play-offs but we'll see. We're been playing well of late and I've been seeing a number of entertaining games down at Clarence Park and getting good value from my season ticket, so that's the main thing for this season really.

That's good to hear. Some fans forget at times that relegation isn't the end of the world. Certainly my favourite season since the Robson era at Newcastle was the one in the Championship - a good team playing good football and winning more than losing was incredibly refreshing after the dross under Sourmess and Allardyce. Ultimately it's led us into a far better place, despite having to acknowledge we're a selling club (Liverpool's feeder club if the last couple of windows are to go by!), but even if it hadn't it still would have been enjoyable.

Is teamwork to contribute to team gelling?

Sounds like good logic to me.

I think so. It definitely was last year but I don't know now. Focussing on it seems to just add a bit more cohesion, which can give you the edge in a tricky match.

[Flamers]

I generally leave it on one thing, depending on how good we are compared to the league I work on this:

Defensive positing if we suck

Attacking movement if we are average

Teamwork if we are good.

Worked for me in Iceland and now I have worked out how good I am in Russia its working too!

[Deisler26]

I have Very High on Teamwork all season, changing it to 'Defensive Positioning' or 'Defend Set Pieces' as and when.

NOTE: This is for a team with rented facilities. Having never worked with better, I can't say

[Pangaea]

Pogba has been making noises about leaving the club at the end of his contract, which expires in the summer, due to lack of opportunities. If all you need is a bit part player and you truly believe in your young player's potential, you wouldn't bring back a guy who retired bang on time. Fair enough point about his example in training, but he's been coaching since retiring, why not just stick with that?

I can see the potential positives in the deal assuming he's still at a decent level, but from watching him towards the back end of last season he really was so far gone that I don't think he's any better use than a kid, and at least the kid has the potential to improve. That's why I think it's stupid.

Fundamentally I think it comes down to you thinking he can still do a job that Pogba/Morrison can't and me thinking he can't. Think we'll probably have to agree to disagree on this one

It's Pogba's agent that has been making noise more than Pogba himself tbh. Suspect this has a lot to do with getting a good contract and much less to do with actually wanting away. If he has any sense he knows he will get next to no chances in City and the prospects for first team football in United are a lot brighter.

Both Pogba and Morrison are very young players. Morrison in particular has shown class at times in the League Cup, but both are a fair bit away from first team level at the moment, and this season is more about learning the trade, what it means to play for a club like Man Utd. They may both get the odd league game, but even without Scholes back I doubt they'd play much this season. Next season and particularly the season after I expect them to feature more regularly in the squad and lineup.

We simply have a different perspective on this, and that's fine I guess. As a United fan I would of course prefer to not have to bring players out of retirement, even if it's one of the best midfielders the club has ever had, but to have a Modric-type player playing regularly. But for many reasons that is not the situation. Given our current situation with injuries, where defenders have had to pitch in at midfield ,and midfielders in defence, I think it's better to use a player that knows the club and the tactical system than to bring in a player for 10-15 million that can equally "do a job" but will ultimately be a short term solution until Man Utd buy the central midfielder we all know they need. Whether that is Javi Martinez, Sneijder, Modric or some other chap I don't know, depends what SAF is looking for, but it's that type of top level player the club is looking for, and those aren't available right now. Therefore I think it's better with a good stop gap solution in Scholes until the club can sort out the problem in the summer.

Like I've indicated a few times already, Scholes isn't going to be playing 90 minutes next to Carrick twice a week, he'll come on for the last 20-30 minutes and close out matches with his passing skills and excellent vision. That is something neither Pogba nor Morrison can do. They can both have a great future in the club as they are very talented kids, but their time has not come yet.

Remains to be seen whether this is a smart move or not, for both club and player, but as I don't think we will (or would have) bought a midfielder now in January, it sure is better to have Scholes around than to not have him. Apart from the underhit pass that led to a City goal he did well in that match, so there are signs he can still "do a job." Probably in a midfield 3 rather than a 2 due to legs being gone, but it's preferable to have him than to not have him around in my opinion.

But I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Pangaea]

Oh, and re: Neville, Solskjær, Keane, whoever. I didn't disagree with Scholes retiring after last season. Certainly felt he could still do a job for another season, but he wasn't as good as he once was. But he was never a real liability to the team. He was slow, but in central midfield that isn't such a huge concern as on fullback. Neville was a shadow of his former self and was a liability on the pitch (which is why he retired mid-season). Bringing him back would be madness, and not only because he hasn't been working out like Scholes clearly has. It comes down to what they can offer the team. Scholes can still offer something. Neville can't. I view it more like Arsenal bringing back Henry. He's clearly not as good as he was either, but he can still do a job for the team as he (too) has already shown. He's younger than Scholes ofc, but I think that's a more relevant comparison than a Sky pundit.

[SnakeXe]

Fair point about closing out games with his ball retention, but I'd be concerned in that sort of situation if the opponents start getting on the ball and coming forward that he'd be a passenger. The situation in the City game was ideal for him since they had to sit back and make sure they didn't let another one in and then just hope for a break, so he did a good job, liability for the second goal aside.

We can certainly agree that what Scholes brings to the team (assuming he's not done) is accurate passing, ball-retention, and occasional moments of class with his excellent vision. I don't think that's what Man Utd are missing right now. Giggs, Carrick, and Cleverley when fit are all passing midfielders. You're missing that energetic physical presence - what Fletcher gives, and what Anderson does on a good day. In this way it's more like Arsenal bringing Henry back to play at left wing. He might have been able to do it to a very high level once, but it's not what he is now.

Time will tell I guess! I hope it works out for him because he deserves it to.

[Deisler26]

*THIS POST IS MAINLY OF INTEREST TO CANADIANS*

Afternoon all. Just want to mention and the terrific reception of Montreal fans last night. Even though he blanked them 3-0, they still gave him one of the warmest receptions I've ever seen for an opposing player.

[AcidBurn]

Why don't teams in New Zealand sack their managers? Been on holiday for over a season and no jobs there yet.

[AcidBurn]

Started with semi-pro reputation and unemployed loaded only England, New Zealand and Brazil. I went on holiday applying for top division jobs only in the hope of going to New Zealand but Norwich have just offered me a job, they are 20th in the EPL and already relegated.

[HotChocolate]

Norwich!?

[AcidBurn]

I found it strange. Trouble or challenge is that no one wants to sign for us due to my pretty low reputation.

[HotChocolate]

Well you were only semi-pro so no real surprise there.

[AcidBurn]

Well you were only semi-pro so no real surprise there.

I wasn't surprised, hoping for a save I can get into enough to write a thread about.

Miss posting a thread in here the quality and amount of threads has risen a lot over the last couple of FM's.

[HotChocolate]

I wasn't surprised, hoping for a save I can get into enough to write a thread about.

Should be a good read especially if you start it on this career, would be a very interesting start

[AK22]

I've just bought myself a new monitor, it's a 22" Ultraslim LED Widescreen.

It's a lot bigger than my previous monitor (18"), and was wondering if anyone out in the community has any tips that they use to enhance their FM experience on a bigger screen? It defaults to a 1920 x 1080 resolution, which does seem slightly on the small side, but now with the smart UI, quite a lot of new stats have appeared if by magic.

Is there any tweaks you make to your settings, or do you normally just play on default? I'm also slightly concerned that any screenshots I take will now be on the small side when posted to the forum.

Any comments would be most welcome

[Flamers]

I always take my screenshots as half a screen and custom a custom load of stats so I'm probably not the bets person to ask

[HotChocolate]

I've just bought myself a new monitor, it's a 22" Ultraslim LED Widescreen.

It's a lot bigger than my previous monitor (18"), and was wondering if anyone out in the community has any tips that they use to enhance their FM experience on a bigger screen? It defaults to a 1920 x 1080 resolution, which does seem slightly on the small side, but now with the smart UI, quite a lot of new stats have appeared if by magic.

Is there any tweaks you make to your settings, or do you normally just play on default? I'm also slightly concerned that any screenshots I take will now be on the small side when posted to the forum.

Any comments would be most welcome

I used to play on the default but then after some problems I got used to a smaller version of it and now play Windowed, however if I print screen these it's almost impossible to read so when it comes to saving the screenshots I change my resolution size to suit the screenshot, you don't have to play on default, flick through each resolution (in game) to find the one that suits you the most and when it comes to screenshots do the same, flick through the ones that would be theoretically the 'biggest/best' to use.

[AK22]

I always take my screenshots as half a screen and custom a custom load of stats so I'm probably not the bets person to ask

I used to play on the default but then after some problems I got used to a smaller version of it and now play Windowed, however if I print screen these it's almost impossible to read so when it comes to saving the screenshots I change my resolution size to suit the screenshot, you don't have to play on default, flick through each resolution (in game) to find the one that suits you the most and when it comes to screenshots do the same, flick through the ones that would be theoretically the 'biggest/best' to use.

Cheers for your input

I guess I'm just going to have to play around with things until I get it how I like it. I do like the fact I can get loads of stats visible now, and as I've kept my old monitor too, I can keep my eye on the forums while playing FM at the same time

[crouchaldinho]

How do you guys manage the whole tactics familiarity business on FM12? It's new to me as I missed FM11.

Is it actually worth loading three tactics of the same formation with various strategies loaded (e.g. defensive, standard, attack or whatever) as your main and backup tactics? Then you can build up familiarity for the differences in mentalities etc. Or is the actual difference it makes to familiarity when switching between strategies very small?

Just wondering how you guys approach it. I have to say that I'm not a big fan of it at all.

[rancer890]

Interesting video about soccer and TV

The lad does propose some interesting things in this video, but do you lot think soccer is just too 'continuous' to really catch with new fans and teach someone who wants to know about soccer but is simply baffled about how 'boring' it looks (around the world, not only America)? There's some examples in the video that can describe what I'm trying to say in greater detail. It's something I've never thought while watching a soccer match (I will be the first to admit I still have a lot of trouble with the flow of the game, but it's better than when I was new to the sport).

[Pangaea]

Fair point about closing out games with his ball retention, but I'd be concerned in that sort of situation if the opponents start getting on the ball and coming forward that he'd be a passenger. The situation in the City game was ideal for him since they had to sit back and make sure they didn't let another one in and then just hope for a break, so he did a good job, liability for the second goal aside.

We can certainly agree that what Scholes brings to the team (assuming he's not done) is accurate passing, ball-retention, and occasional moments of class with his excellent vision. I don't think that's what Man Utd are missing right now. Giggs, Carrick, and Cleverley when fit are all passing midfielders. You're missing that energetic physical presence - what Fletcher gives, and what Anderson does on a good day. In this way it's more like Arsenal bringing Henry back to play at left wing. He might have been able to do it to a very high level once, but it's not what he is now.

Time will tell I guess! I hope it works out for him because he deserves it to.

(Before reading the rest of the thread) Very much agree with that, all of it I think. Since Scholes' legs are gone he isn't as good under pressure as he once was, which could also be seen at times in the City match (think there was a 'crazy' backpass that was picked up by a United player, but could also have played a City player through on goal). He's an experienced player though and will calm the team down with his cool passing and vision when required to close out games.

That type of player is perhaps not what the team needs the most. The loss of Fletcher was a big blow, let's just hope he can come back one day and play professional football again. I'm a little torn on what United actually need in midfield though. Mostly I think it's a creative player more of the Modric mould than a more typical energetic destroyer that sits deep. A combination of them like we had in Keane and Scholes (to different degrees) would of course be the ultimate, but players like that don't grow on trees.

Although Giggs offers creativity and vision from the centre now he isn't exactly a spring chicken and his days are limited (rest etc). Apart from him there is no real creative force at the centre of the pitch, unless Rooney plays deep. IMO, what the team needs is a creative and goal threat from the centre again so it's harder to keep United out by just closing off the wings by doubling up and playing narrow, forcing United into the 'bag'. With Cleverley fit again he can hopefully bring some of that ball retention and creativity, but it's pretty clear SAF needs to twist some Yank balls and produce the money needed to bring in a top class (preferably young-ish) central midfielder. I don't think Sneijder is the answer as he is too much of an AMC who can't defend. Somebody like Modric or perhaps Javi Martinez would fit the bill better. They got an eye for a pass, but can also defend well and ensure ball retention when under pressure. Like we saw in for example the Newcastle match (and many others the last few years), United can be vulnerable to high pressure because the midfield isn't as comfortable on the ball then.

If nothing happens next summer either, however, then I really don't know what the hell is going on. There are some good youth players in Pogba, Morrison and some others ofc, but they won't start to shine for a few years yet, and that's assuming Pogba stays and Morrison doesn't end up in jail or worse. If he makes it big and doesn't change, the tabloids can praise their lucky stars as he'll produce headlines on a very consistent basis. A workhorse and proper professional on the pitch, but a loonie off it. So frustrating. If that talent goes to waste it will be a loss for England, I'm sure of it.

[Pangaea]

Cheers for your input

I guess I'm just going to have to play around with things until I get it how I like it. I do like the fact I can get loads of stats visible now, and as I've kept my old monitor too, I can keep my eye on the forums while playing FM at the same time

On taking screenshots I'll say what I told DazR. It looks much better in the forum if you take them when the game is windowed to its smallest size, which I believe is 1024x800. The forum still auto-resizes them to 800 width, so now I've actually started to Photoshop some of them so they are only 800 pixels wide. Looks much clearer in-forum then, but it's a drag to do them. But I really don't like tables and such with 60% of the screen empty where I have to try to figure out whose points belong to which team, so particularly the smallest windowed size is a good one I think. Takes no time either if you play windowed anyway. Just resize the window to the smallest once, double click the title (top of the window) and hey presto it's back to normal full-size. Works a treat

Can't comment on the other stuff as I don't own FM12.

[SnakeXe]

(Before reading the rest of the thread) Very much agree with that, all of it I think. Since Scholes' legs are gone he isn't as good under pressure as he once was, which could also be seen at times in the City match (think there was a 'crazy' backpass that was picked up by a United player, but could also have played a City player through on goal). He's an experienced player though and will calm the team down with his cool passing and vision when required to close out games.

That type of player is perhaps not what the team needs the most. The loss of Fletcher was a big blow, let's just hope he can come back one day and play professional football again. I'm a little torn on what United actually need in midfield though. Mostly I think it's a creative player more of the Modric mould than a more typical energetic destroyer that sits deep. A combination of them like we had in Keane and Scholes (to different degrees) would of course be the ultimate, but players like that don't grow on trees.

Although Giggs offers creativity and vision from the centre now he isn't exactly a spring chicken and his days are limited (rest etc). Apart from him there is no real creative force at the centre of the pitch, unless Rooney plays deep. IMO, what the team needs is a creative and goal threat from the centre again so it's harder to keep United out by just closing off the wings by doubling up and playing narrow, forcing United into the 'bag'. With Cleverley fit again he can hopefully bring some of that ball retention and creativity, but it's pretty clear SAF needs to twist some Yank balls and produce the money needed to bring in a top class (preferably young-ish) central midfielder. I don't think Sneijder is the answer as he is too much of an AMC who can't defend. Somebody like Modric or perhaps Javi Martinez would fit the bill better. They got an eye for a pass, but can also defend well and ensure ball retention when under pressure. Like we saw in for example the Newcastle match (and many others the last few years), United can be vulnerable to high pressure because the midfield isn't as comfortable on the ball then.

If nothing happens next summer either, however, then I really don't know what the hell is going on. There are some good youth players in Pogba, Morrison and some others ofc, but they won't start to shine for a few years yet, and that's assuming Pogba stays and Morrison doesn't end up in jail or worse. If he makes it big and doesn't change, the tabloids can praise their lucky stars as he'll produce headlines on a very consistent basis. A workhorse and proper professional on the pitch, but a loonie off it. So frustrating. If that talent goes to waste it will be a loss for England, I'm sure of it.

Agreed that Sneijder definitely isn't the answer - he was never a central midfielder and he's gone off the boil completely since World Cup 2010 (where he wasn't as good as his high goal tally would suggest anyway). Modric would clearly be an upgrade on what you have now, but you'd still be very lightweight. As well as unsettling you with the high press Newcastle physically bullied you, so I'd say Martinez or De Rossi would be perfect with their blend of controlled aggression and skill.

Incidentally what do you think of Anderson being promoted to playmaker? He was a definite number 10 at Porto, but he seems to be seen as just a jobbing workhorse midfielder now. On the few times he's played a big higher up the pitch that I've seen (Schalke at OT last year springs to mind) he's looked quite dangerous. If he can step up in that department then your midfield suddenly looks a lot easier to rebuild - Anderson and Cleverley as the creators, Giggs and Carrick as the passers, and Fletcher and AN Other as the destroyers. This kind of leads me to the next question:

How much do you think there is available to spend? Assuming Anderson can't/isn't allowed to step into a creative role then you really need two players, which you're looking at over £20m a piece for players of the class required.

Interesting point about Morrison - what's the off-pitch issue with him? "Gangstaaaah" mates? We've a talented but knob-headed chap at Newcastle, Nile Ranger, but he's a knob on and off pitch. Essentially the consensus seems to be he thinks he's made it already and doesn't understand why he's nowhere near even the bench at Newcastle after having played a few times last year. Beardsley hates his guts by all accounts.

[Flamers]

I would put money on SAF finding some player we have eneger heard of to fit perfectly into the system (Hernandez anyone?) that's one thing you have to give to SAF and he scouts, they are good at finding very talented players. Honestly I can see a 19 y/o coming in from some country most people in Manchester don't know exists and being the next big thing

[SnakeXe]

Well they brought in Pogba who noone had heard of and he's the next big thing but never gets a game so who knows

I don't think he will pull out a Hernandez in this case. The kind of player they need (dominant midfielder) will shine out of any league, whereas a striker can go under the radar a bit if they have poor service or are only up against crap defenders.

I'm also fully aware that I'll now be proved wrong.

[Flamers]

I am giving Hernandez as an example of a player who had be found long before he became famous and signed for a tiny proportion of what his fee should have been (signed for £10m)

[AK22]

Perhaps they'll sign the new Eric Djemba-Djemba, or Kleberson

[SnakeXe]

I am giving Hernandez as an example of a player who had be found long before he became famous and signed for a tiny proportion of what his fee should have been (signed for £10m)

And I'm saying that doesn't really happen for midfielders. Who's the last "plucked from obscurity" midfielder who has gone on to be excellent? Tiote doesn't count, he played at the World Cup in 2010 and won the Dutch title with Twente, that's not obscurity. As for Cabaye being obscure, that's just laughable.

Perhaps they'll sign the new Eric Djemba-Djemba, or Kleberson

Far more likely

[Pangaea]

Agreed that Sneijder definitely isn't the answer - he was never a central midfielder and he's gone off the boil completely since World Cup 2010 (where he wasn't as good as his high goal tally would suggest anyway). Modric would clearly be an upgrade on what you have now, but you'd still be very lightweight. As well as unsettling you with the high press Newcastle physically bullied you, so I'd say Martinez or De Rossi would be perfect with their blend of controlled aggression and skill.

Incidentally what do you think of Anderson being promoted to playmaker? He was a definite number 10 at Porto, but he seems to be seen as just a jobbing workhorse midfielder now. On the few times he's played a big higher up the pitch that I've seen (Schalke at OT last year springs to mind) he's looked quite dangerous. If he can step up in that department then your midfield suddenly looks a lot easier to rebuild - Anderson and Cleverley as the creators, Giggs and Carrick as the passers, and Fletcher and AN Other as the destroyers. This kind of leads me to the next question:

How much do you think there is available to spend? Assuming Anderson can't/isn't allowed to step into a creative role then you really need two players, which you're looking at over £20m a piece for players of the class required.

Interesting point about Morrison - what's the off-pitch issue with him? "Gangstaaaah" mates? We've a talented but knob-headed chap at Newcastle, Nile Ranger, but he's a knob on and off pitch. Essentially the consensus seems to be he thinks he's made it already and doesn't understand why he's nowhere near even the bench at Newcastle after having played a few times last year. Beardsley hates his guts by all accounts.

Anderson was more creative and offensive in Porto, and I think that's the role he was intended to fill for United too. But he hasn't really shone in it. His passing isn't good enough perhaps, or maybe he just tries too many unrealistic Hollywood balls. Think it's more likely he'll continue to sit a little deeper and be more of a destroyer than a creator due to his energy and strength. He is still fairly young so it's still a work in progress I think. He seems to be in SAF's plans so can both go ways, depending on who is brought in during the next summer (knock on wood!!).

Basically right about Morrison. He seems to think he's some kind of mo-fo gansta and hangs with all the wrong types of people. Seems to think very highly of himself (for good reasons tbf) and that he has already made it, and according to some reports has failed to turn up to training at times. Hard to know what is going on from the outside, but he has played less than one might expect, even for the reserves. He's also been in trouble with the law with witness intimidation, and has one month left of a "keep clean or you'll end up in jail" sentence. Which neatly explains why he hasn't been offered a new contract yet. He is the biggest talent I've seen come out of our academy since Paul Scholes (and Giggs before him) so if he can get his head onto his shoulders he can have a fantastic career. Pogba was good in the FA Youth Cup final last season, as I think you mentioned above somewhere, but Morrison was the one that really won it. So much natural talent it'll be a great shame to see it go to waste. Think he does the head in of both SAF and Rio at the moment (Rio with a difficult background himself tries to help him out), but hopefully it will work out okay in the end.

But back to the United midfield. Agree we're likely to see an established name come in as opposed to a Hernandez-like signing, but I think it'll be a creative force rather than a player intended to sit deep and break up attacks. A mix of all would be best naturally, but it's hard to see exactly what player would fit the bill there. Possibly Javi Martinez (but I've seen too little of him to have a proper opinion).

I don't know how much money SAF has available, but I actually don't think that's the biggest issue. Even the Glazers should be able to see United need investment in midfield, and that position is rarely cheap for top talent. There should also be a fair bob left of the Ronaldo money, and we saved a lot in wages with the retirement of van der Sar, Scholes and Gary Neville, with the people coming in surely earning less (for now). I think the bigger issue is that SAF simply hasn't found the right player yet, not one that is available. Hopefully he will be available in the summer. "No value in the market" gets a lot of laughs, but he does have a point with it. When United buy in this position, they will aim for a player that will genuinely strengthen the first team and play for at least 5 years, and probably from a European league so the player will be used to the football here. He also needs to have the right mentality. It's not an easy puzzle, and I think the lack of a buy is more down to this than a lack of money. Maybe things would be different if the Glazers (spit) hadn't taken out hundreds of millions of pounds from the club, but I do think SAF has 30 or so millions to spend on a new midfielder. The CL exit may actually have made this even easier for SAF as the Glazers will have first hand knowledge of what it means for their pouch to do crap in the tournament, and they will know it's actually possible to crash out despite being Manchester United.

[AcidBurn]

How do you guys manage the whole tactics familiarity business on FM12? It's new to me as I missed FM11.

Is it actually worth loading three tactics of the same formation with various strategies loaded (e.g. defensive, standard, attack or whatever) as your main and backup tactics? Then you can build up familiarity for the differences in mentalities etc. Or is the actual difference it makes to familiarity when switching between strategies very small?

Just wondering how you guys approach it. I have to say that I'm not a big fan of it at all.

I know we do thing differently tactic wise but I always loaded three different formations. If I needed to change width or speed I would do that in the match rather than load three versions of the same tactic. I don't like it especially because once the season ends and pre-season starts the idiot players forget how to play those tactics and suddenly become less familiar with them.

Has De Rossi signed a new contract with Roma yet? I heard his contract expires at the end of the season.

[B.W.G]

De Rossi hasn't signed a new contract with Roma yet,Man City are apparently offer De Rossi a contract of €9 million-a-year,City are also trying to sweeten the deal by offering De Rossi's father a youth coaching role.

[AcidBurn]

De Rossi hasn't signed a new contract with Roma yet,Man City are apparently offer De Rossi a contract of €9 million-a-year,City are also trying to sweeten the deal by offering De Rossi's father a youth coaching role.

Is he really worth that? I haven't seen a lot of him, I remember him mainly as the idiot that elbowed McBride in the World Cup.

[SnakeXe]

I know we do thing differently tactic wise but I always loaded three different formations. If I needed to change width or speed I would do that in the match rather than load three versions of the same tactic. I don't like it especially because once the season ends and pre-season starts the idiot players forget how to play those tactics and suddenly become less familiar with them.

Has De Rossi signed a new contract with Roma yet? I heard his contract expires at the end of the season.

Yeah I only use the prepare different tactics to do different shapes. It's annoying that if you play mostly Standard then go to Control or Counter for one game they're less familiar, but I suppose that's fair enough as it would be true in real life. Never thought of using the same system on different approaches before, might be worthwhile if you don't change shape ever.

De Rossi hasn't signed a new contract with Roma yet,Man City are apparently offer De Rossi a contract of €9 million-a-year,City are also trying to sweeten the deal by offering De Rossi's father a youth coaching role.

If De Rossi leaves Roma it'd be like Gerrard leaving Liverpool. I wouldn't be so sure he won't sign on with Roma - the coach Enrique definitely wants to keep him. I think it's just a case of convincing him that their new Barca-lite project will work - and results are improving, they're in 7th, 3 points off 4th. Although it's 3rd you really want this season since they lost a Champions League spot.

[SnakeXe]

Is he really worth that? I haven't seen a lot of him, I remember him mainly as the idiot that elbowed McBride in the World Cup.

He's excellent. Pretty much Gerrard but with positional awareness.

[Flamers]

I wouldn't want anyone to miss out on this wonderful website:

http://www.haveyoueverseentottenhamwintheleague.com/

[Pangaea]

Isn't De Rossi more of a holding midfielder? With Gerrard I'm thinking a guy busting forward all the time. Not watching much Italian football these days, but for some reason my impression of De Rossi is a defensive midfielder.

[SnakeXe]

He's a box to boxer really, similar attributes to Gerrard in terms of his workrate and decent technical quality. He's been playing centre-half for Roma recently, Enrique sees him as their Busquets.

[crouchaldinho]

I know we do thing differently tactic wise but I always loaded three different formations. If I needed to change width or speed I would do that in the match rather than load three versions of the same tactic. I don't like it especially because once the season ends and pre-season starts the idiot players forget how to play those tactics and suddenly become less familiar with them.

I'm a tactical tweaker, as you know AB, and I don't like this part of the game. We can talk about realism and all of that kind of stuff, which is fine, but this doesn't feel like a fun change and it also feels 'gamey' and superficial to me. But there we go, that's just my opinion.

I'm going to try loading three versions of the same formation with different strategies set and see if that helps in any small way!

Yeah I only use the prepare different tactics to do different shapes. It's annoying that if you play mostly Standard then go to Control or Counter for one game they're less familiar, but I suppose that's fair enough as it would be true in real life.

I still think it's a kick in the teeth to those among us who like to play the role of a master tactician! I don't like it at all but that's just me.

It also seems to run contrary to what the whole TC system is about.

Never thought of using the same system on different approaches before, might be worthwhile if you don't change shape ever.

I'm trying it. I'm pretty much wedded to my current system due to the players I have now.

To be honest, I usually play just one formation anyway and build my side with that playing system in mind.

[AcidBurn]

I agree I dislike it as well it's too gamey like you said building things up and such.

I really didn't realise how hard it was to get players with a semi-pro rep instead of a pro or international rep.

[Pangaea]

Sounds like Sunday League should be a blast in FM12 at least, so that's one major thing the game got going for it

[Flamers]

By god it's hard I can win vs 5th 5-0 then lose vs 13th 4-1! Even the best tactics come undone as its so hard to motivate your players! I would suggest it to anyone!

[rancer890]

*Post mainly about hockey*

The sky is falling in Habsland. Now you can't even criticize your teammates in front of the press or else you get traded -- in the middle of a hockey game no less!

Do Habs management have absolutely no accountability (throwing your own coach under the bus, as if he didn't have enough pressure) and responsibility (trading a guy for being honest. Yeah your team really are losers if you look at recent results )?

[Deisler26]

*Post mainly about hockey*

The sky is falling in Habsland. Now you can't even criticize your teammates in front of the press or else you get traded -- in the middle of a hockey game no less!

Do Habs management have absolutely no accountability (throwing your own coach under the bus, as if he didn't have enough pressure) and responsibility (trading a guy for being honest. Yeah your team really are losers if you look at recent results )?

But did you see the return? Rene Bourque?? They must REALLY hate the Habs to make that trade. I think they want to 'Fail For Nail'

[rancer890]

But did you see the return? Rene Bourque?? They must REALLY hate the Habs to make that trade. I think they want to 'Fail For Nail'

Didn't see what they got when I posted. Not bad, trading a goalie who's probably not going to play in the NHL (Ramo), Cammi, 2012 5th rounder for Bourque, prospect, and 2013 2nd rounder. I still hate the Habs though. Habs don't need to fail for nail, Columbus are already doing that!

[SnakeXe]

That all sounded like this to me:

[AcidBurn]

Sounds like Sunday League should be a blast in FM12 at least, so that's one major thing the game got going for it

Strange I got a job with a team in EPL that had already been relegated with a regional reputation.

[Pangaea]

That sounds strange yes, wouldn't think that should be possible.

[Flamers]

I think the theory is Sunday League can only get jobs of clubs of regional rep UNLESS that club is (or will be maybe?) in the lowest playable division of the country.

I got a National club in Russia because of this (they are still dreadful!)

[DazRTaylor]

I hope to start a brand new career soon as I have just bought a brand spanking s*** hot new PC today. i7 chip!

Now installing everything.

[Deisler26]

Heh, this FM group chat on Steam is addictive, in that I always check who's online

[Flamers]

I'm in when online but I have been going back to uni for 2 days :P

[hursty2]

Whenever I'm in chat, no-one else is.

[HotChocolate]

Whenever I'm in chat, no-one else is.

I've been in chat for the past week or so and no one ever is! Flamers used to be, but has left me recently

[AcidBurn]

Whenever I have checked no one is ever there. It was usually at midnight on a Friday and Saturday night though.

[deltablue]

Often seen 1 is, I guess we're all waiting for others to get on, hence why we're not getting anywhere

[HotChocolate]

Only me in the chat, yet again

[Flamers]

I am there <3

[deltablue]

I'm making three.

[SnakeXe]

I'm mostly playing Skyrim at the moment which isn't conducive to chatting

[Tricky-Jigsaw]

Just bought FM12.

Started a career with my beloved Everton.

Still not used to the layout though, first FM I've played since 09.

[malikoi]

Just bought FM12.

Started a career with my beloved Everton.

Still not used to the layout though, first FM I've played since 09.

Doesn't take long to get used to at all, once you've been to something once you'll always know where it is! It's a nice simple lay-out IMO.

[acidmonkey]

Finally after a month i have the internet! lost of changes in the past month, new house, new internet and took me best part of 4 weeks to get everything set up, so what have i missed?

[Tricky-Jigsaw]

Doesn't take long to get used to at all, once you've been to something once you'll always know where it is! It's a nice simple lay-out IMO.

Yeah, getting more and more used to it now.

[HotChocolate]

Finally after a month i have the internet! lost of changes in the past month, new house, new internet and took me best part of 4 weeks to get everything set up, so what have i missed?

The Quiz

With the layout, every year I get the demo and say 'hate it' then buy the game and after what, a day? 'Love it' I never play the demo, I just can't get used to it and the fact you only get half a season doesn't interest me.

[jackripper]

if i was to create a player in the editor how can i give him randon CA/Pa is it possible guys?

[hursty2]

if i was to create a player in the editor how can i give him randon CA/Pa is it possible guys?

Just leave all the attributes blank.

[SnakeXe]

I think 0 is completely random then you can use -1 to -10 to give them a random value within a specific range, -10 being the best. This may have changed, I haven't really looked under the hood since FM09 I think.

[Flamers]

It is still the same, -1 is 0-50 I think and -10 is 190-200

[AcidBurn]

-10 is 170-200. 0 is completely random all minus PA's overlap so.

-10 is 170-200
-9 is 150-180
-8 is 130-160

And so on.

[acidmonkey]

Contemplating turning my game into a thread, anyone intrested in hearing how ive gone from Gateshead to Dortmund in 8 years? and how i aim to win something in Spain and France before heading back to England as Sunderland?

[AcidBurn]

Contemplating turning my game into a thread, anyone intrested in hearing how ive gone from Gateshead to Dortmund in 8 years? and how i aim to win something in Spain and France before heading back to England as Sunderland?

Would love to read a new acidmonkey thread especially if you end up at Sunderland.

[Deisler26]

Contemplating turning my game into a thread, anyone intrested in hearing how ive gone from Gateshead to Dortmund in 8 years? and how i aim to win something in Spain and France before heading back to England as Sunderland?

Ah, g'wan.

[HotChocolate]

Contemplating turning my game into a thread, anyone intrested in hearing how ive gone from Gateshead to Dortmund in 8 years? and how i aim to win something in Spain and France before heading back to England as Sunderland?

I was intrigued, but then you took over at the Sty aka Hillsborough

[SRL88]

Alright lads. Just want to mention something to you all. With the current financial state of Darlington FC and the possibility of liquidation I offer you all the opportunity to help save this club here. The Darlington FC Trust has been seen on Sky Sports News!!!!

As a local side to myself, It would be horrible to see them go out of business, so if any of you are willing to help then please do. You dont need to look at this....but for those of you who do, thanks .

[HotChocolate]

Alright lads. Just want to mention something to you all. With the current financial state of Darlington FC and the possibility of liquidation I offer you all the opportunity to help save this club here. The Darlington FC Trust has been seen on Sky Sports News!!!!

As a local side to myself, It would be horrible to see them go out of business, so if any of you are willing to help then please do. You dont need to look at this....but for those of you who do, thanks .

I'll be honest and okay, I can't imagine what it would be like for my team about to go out of business but surely the money would be better used to start a new 'Darlington FC'? I know they want to keep the original going, but surely there becomes a time when you've got to accept it wont happen. £50k for 2 weeks, there is still half a season left, it will cost them so much to get to the summer, stay up and find a buyer.

Is it really worth it when they can use the raised money to start a new club?

[HotChocolate]

Just a quick question, did any of you watch Sky's Dream Team? The drama/soap about a football club called Harchester United?

It ran from 1997 to 2006.

[jackripper]

Just a quick question, did any of you watch Sky's Dream Team? The drama/soap about a football club called Harchester United?

It ran from 1997 to 2006.

i watched some of it

[SRL88]

Watched every season!!!

[Pangaea]

Watched some episodes, probably from the first few seasons, but overall thought it was rather crap.

Didn't know it ran that long.

[jackripper]

Watched some episodes, probably from the first few seasons, but overall thought it was rather crap.

Didn't know it ran that long.

yeah was the same for me, i can remember some french player they signed who was sleeping with that fit woman.

[HotChocolate]

I watched season 9 and 10, managed to bag season 6-10 on DVD though, watch an episode every dinner time I'm off college.

Love the show!

[Flamers]

Anyone in the UK using Netflix, if s what's it like, sounds like something I would be interested in but I'm not sure if it's worth the cash.

[Pangaea]

I have a question about scout ratings in FM12. One of the annoyances in FM10 is that when the reputation of your club goes up and you start challenging for titles, even players with "leading" potential get 3 stars, or even 2.5. That makes it hard to pick them out among the rest unless I go and read every single report card.

Has this changed in FM12? Will talented kids have 3.5 to 4 stars potential even if your club is qualifying for Europe every season?

[SnakeXe]

You get some at 3* who have "leading" potential if you inspect the scout report, but most will have 3.5* at least, in my experience.

[Pangaea]

Maybe that's an improvement then. There are some at 3.5* in FM10 too, but very, very few, and my club doesn't have great reputation yet either. It's always been one of those small things that get on my tits over time.

[AcidBurn]

Screenshots are really annoying on these forums, it used to be a case of making them 800x600 on imageshack and they would be easily viewable. Then again maybe my eyes got worse when I turned 30.

[acidmonkey]

Did someone mention there was a steam discussion group or am i making that up?

[HotChocolate]

Did someone mention there was a steam discussion group or am i making that up?

You're not making it up.

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/FMCU