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Thread: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

  1. #2101
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    Regarding a few points:

    I will probably start the Bandits and Sheriffs a rung or two lower than usual, because their rise up the leagues in comparison to each other is interesting.

    I may consider reducing the starting CA of the starlets to 100 this time, which will still be overpoweringly high for that league. The issue is that lowering the CA can make the idiots pointless, because their poor approach to training means their CA does not improve, in fact it tends to go down. Last time, everyone started at 150, the idiots dropped into the 140s, while the starlets found the peak. Perhaps an interesting twist would be to given the idiots a HIGHER CA than the starlets, to counterbalance the Bandits' advantage of having 22 superkids. 150 CA for the idiots, 100 for the starlets? Perhaps...

    Giving the starlets a minimum fee release clause is likely to change nothing. A club in the 7th/8th tier of English football is still going to accept a bid of a few million for a player, irrespective of a 100m minimum fee release clause.

    I think I'll still have to include a set of leagues from the start, and not try to take too much advantage of the on/off nation switching. If, for example, a starlet moves to Turkey, then yes, I'll switch that league on, but I suspect that if a league isn't switched on, they are less likely to go there in the first place. So plenty will have to be on by default.

  2. #2102
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    Great to see you back Kip, your experiments have been nothing short of fantastic (can't believe they started with FM07!)

    Would you consider giving each of the players a proper name? e.g Gary Goalkeeper, Duncan Defender, Wally Winger etc. etc. Just to give them a wee
    bit more personality?? I think it would help us keep a track of individual careers as well.

    As you have alluded to, it may be time to make the idiots a little less, well, idiotic. I do think a 50 point difference between them and the Bandits is a little too
    large though, can't have the Bandits getting thrashed by their arch rivals can we!

    Good luck chap!

  3. #2103
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    Quote Originally Posted by kipfizh View Post
    150 CA for the idiots, 100 for the starlets? Perhaps...
    I've read every single post in both experiments,wonderful stuff kip!

    Unfortunately the idiots in 09 were rather pointless to the story imho,could not be foreseen.

    You can't give the idiots 100 CA,rather set it higher than 150? My 2 centavos.

  4. #2104
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    Do a little dance, make a little love, Kip is back. You're going to give an extra dimension to my FM experience!

  5. #2105
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    OOOh.....the bandits are coming...the bandits are coming!!!!! I Cannot Wait!!!!

  6. #2106
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    Quote Originally Posted by kipfizh View Post
    Regarding a few points:

    I may consider reducing the starting CA of the starlets to 100 this time, which will still be overpoweringly high for that league. The issue is that lowering the CA can make the idiots pointless, because their poor approach to training means their CA does not improve, in fact it tends to go down. Last time, everyone started at 150, the idiots dropped into the 140s, while the starlets found the peak. Perhaps an interesting twist would be to given the idiots a HIGHER CA than the starlets, to counterbalance the Bandits' advantage of having 22 superkids. 150 CA for the idiots, 100 for the starlets? Perhaps...
    .
    I definitely like this idea

  7. #2107
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    More starting CA for idiots is a good point imo Kip. Even though they manage to improve that CA their personalities will still hold them back whereas the starlets will eventually grow into world beaters barring back to back season long injuries.

  8. #2108
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    Quote Originally Posted by kipfizh View Post
    Regarding a few points:

    I will probably start the Bandits and Sheriffs a rung or two lower than usual, because their rise up the leagues in comparison to each other is interesting.

    I may consider reducing the starting CA of the starlets to 100 this time, which will still be overpoweringly high for that league. The issue is that lowering the CA can make the idiots pointless, because their poor approach to training means their CA does not improve, in fact it tends to go down. Last time, everyone started at 150, the idiots dropped into the 140s, while the starlets found the peak. Perhaps an interesting twist would be to given the idiots a HIGHER CA than the starlets, to counterbalance the Bandits' advantage of having 22 superkids. 150 CA for the idiots, 100 for the starlets? Perhaps...

    Giving the starlets a minimum fee release clause is likely to change nothing. A club in the 7th/8th tier of English football is still going to accept a bid of a few million for a player, irrespective of a 100m minimum fee release clause.

    I think I'll still have to include a set of leagues from the start, and not try to take too much advantage of the on/off nation switching. If, for example, a starlet moves to Turkey, then yes, I'll switch that league on, but I suspect that if a league isn't switched on, they are less likely to go there in the first place. So plenty will have to be on by default.
    Actually With 200 PA and Good Training setup I wonder if 50-100-150 mixture what can be done... Another question can be youth 50CA Squad in Starlets Youth Team With an A Team with 100 CA Starlets Team Can Do. If Bandits manager try to educate 50 CA to true potential or after selling the 100 CA (or 150 CA) main starlets or just release? (I suggest despite 22 superkids - 33 kids with 11 /150CA - 11/ 100CA and 11/ 50 CA with World Beaters PA )
    Last edited by ozzymanborn; 28-10-2011 at 12:34.

  9. #2109
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    I've read that 3 times now and I still can't make sense of it

  10. #2110
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    Me too.... Huh?

  11. #2111
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    Think the suggestion is to have 33 starlets, 11 with a CA of 150, 11 with a CA of 100 and 11 with a CA of 50, but all with PA of 200.

    The question then is whether the Bandits manager would try and stick with the 50CA starlets or just release them.

  12. #2112
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    Can't wait for the next saga.

    The usual suspects are all back too.

    Fantastic!

    C'mon you Bandits!

  13. #2113
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    Cool, I think it is all planned then - thanks for the ideas everyone. Now I just need to buy the game.

    On that note, I used to get FMs in January, which usually tied in nicely with the final patch. But with it all Steam-based now, do we even have a notion of 'this is the last patch' anymore?

  14. #2114
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    You could just set your steam to offline after January Kip - that way it wont auto patch....

  15. #2115
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    I've been happily lurking for ages, its a great thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by BuffaloPhil View Post
    Think the suggestion is to have 33 starlets, 11 with a CA of 150, 11 with a CA of 100 and 11 with a CA of 50, but all with PA of 200.

    The question then is whether the Bandits manager would try and stick with the 50CA starlets or just release them.
    Maybe make it a smaller squad, say, 3 times 7 or 8 players instead? That way its more likely that the lower CA starlets get some playing time, aiding their development.

  16. #2116
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    Quote Originally Posted by kipfizh View Post
    Cool, I think it is all planned then - thanks for the ideas everyone. Now I just need to buy the game.

    On that note, I used to get FMs in January, which usually tied in nicely with the final patch. But with it all Steam-based now, do we even have a notion of 'this is the last patch' anymore?
    I doubt it's going to change much. Sure, Steam makes it easier to introduce patches (and perhaps that will mean there are later fixes than have been provided in previous years) but I don't see why that would affect the traditional major update in January. It would be very odd for SI to change their development cycle on the basis of Steam.

    Quote Originally Posted by civilservant View Post
    You could just set your steam to offline after January Kip - that way it wont auto patch....
    No need to set Steam to offline, you just need to right-click the game, go to properties, and then disable updates. Besides, I'm not convinced that would really help in any way.

  17. #2117
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    "Besides, I'm not convinced that would really help in any way."

    Apart from keeping an experiments paramaters the same of course *rollseye*

  18. #2118
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    Quote Originally Posted by civilservant View Post
    "Besides, I'm not convinced that would really help in any way."

    Apart from keeping an experiments paramaters the same of course *rollseye*
    Yes, but what actual benefit does that provide? Patches tend to fix game bugs, and it would presumably be wise to run the experiment with those fixes in place. It's not as if they're going to suddenly recode a major feature of the game in a post-January patch.

    None of Kip's experiments have relied on repetition of results or consistency, they're purely about the AI exhibited by the game and possibly a side-experiment of how the players progress.

  19. #2119
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    It's January!!!! Does this mean the reincarnation of the Bandits is right at our doorsteps?!

    Up you bandits!!!

  20. #2120
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    Absolutely excellent thread! Amazing experiment kip. Read through the most of it (but mainly the updates) in the past two days, and am extremely glad its coming back, as it is an extremely interesting and entertaining experiment Going to check right now if the next experiment is out, really hope it is

  21. #2121
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    The link would have been posted here if it was

  22. #2122
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    I'm just waiting for the January/early Feb update, assuming there is going to be one following the transfer deadline day.

    At that point, it will begin.

  23. #2123
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    Quote Originally Posted by kipfizh View Post
    I'm just waiting for the January/early Feb update, assuming there is going to be one following the transfer deadline day.

    At that point, it will begin.
    Woo Hoo!!

  24. #2124
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    Can't wait!

  25. #2125
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    Quote Originally Posted by kipfizh View Post
    I'm just waiting for the January/early Feb update, assuming there is going to be one following the transfer deadline day.

    At that point, it will begin.
    Kip, how long does it take you to edit a clean database? I can't imagine I'd have the patience to be honest!

  26. #2126
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    Quote Originally Posted by civilservant View Post
    Kip, how long does it take you to edit a clean database? I can't imagine I'd have the patience to be honest!
    A long time! It seems to take longer and longer each time, because more stats keep getting added to each player. club and so on, which means more to change.

    Usually takes a good 3-4 hours at the very least, and I imagine it'll take even longer if I start adding lower leagues.

  27. #2127
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    Please, SI, give us final patch as soon as transfer window closes.

  28. #2128
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    Cant wait Kip. Think you have everyone just about on the edge of their seats.,

  29. #2129
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    Kip is back, and so am I! Not been on this forum for absolute ages. I thought I'll have a glance. And lo and behold the bandits are back

  30. #2130
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    Fantastic, cant wait to follow it

    Quote Originally Posted by kipfizh View Post
    I'm just waiting for the January/early Feb update, assuming there is going to be one following the transfer deadline day.

    At that point, it will begin.

  31. #2131
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    Good news! Might get a bit of a read of the old Bandits in to get myself into the flow of things again

  32. #2132
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    If any of you want to see the original Bandits' progress through the leagues, there was a fan group & photos posted on facebook. Just realised the group still exists when I saw it to the left of my feed. Good to see activity back in this thread tbh

    Group --> http://www.facebook.com/groups/7652622135/

    Photos --> http://www.facebook.com/groups/7652622135/photos/ Just checked through and saw some of those seasons have swapped places

  33. #2133
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    Catch 22 here. Been waiting for that elusive update so I can start on the DB update (undoubtedly, the database will change considerably), but it hasn't actually been officially confirmed we're getting one.

    Just dropping in to say the plans are still there. Haven't actually played a single player game of FM12 yet so might crack on with one in the meantime.

  34. #2134
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    Did you genuinely post that 1 hour before the 12.2 announcement Kip?

  35. #2135
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    Catch 22 was posted just a little before the 1(hour) 2.2 update? How's that for weird.

  36. #2136
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    Thanks for reminding them to update.

  37. #2137
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    Quote Originally Posted by 18Rabbit View Post
    Thanks for reminding them to update.
    Ditto. The FM gods want to see th Bandits back in action!

  38. #2138
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    Ha, that's just weird. Patch is downloaded, as is the editor. Now for the mammoth editing task...

  39. #2139
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    WOOOOO looking forward to this Kip - love it

  40. #2140
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    Quote Originally Posted by kipfizh View Post
    Ha, that's just weird. Patch is downloaded, as is the editor. Now for the mammoth editing task...
    Consider using our release: here
    I am updating the file and should have it ready later this evening.
    EDIT: Updated to v6.2 which is compatible with 12.2.0 and the new database.
    Last edited by magicmastermind124; 07-03-2012 at 22:41. Reason: update

  41. #2141
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    Quote Originally Posted by magicmastermind124 View Post
    Consider using our release: here
    I am updating the file and should have it ready later this evening.
    EDIT: Updated to v6.2 which is compatible with 12.2.0 and the new database.
    Fantastic - great work. I was looking at this earlier today but figured that it'd take you a while to update with the new patch. Speedy work! I will definitely be using this....

    Edit: Am I being dumb? I can't see download links for the updated one...
    Last edited by kipfizh; 08-03-2012 at 00:58.

  42. #2142
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    WooT! The Bandits are coming...the bandits are coming!

  43. #2143
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    Quote Originally Posted by kipfizh View Post
    Fantastic - great work. I was looking at this earlier today but figured that it'd take you a while to update with the new patch. Speedy work! I will definitely be using this....

    Edit: Am I being dumb? I can't see download links for the updated one...
    My apologies, I spotted a bug after the upload and it was too late to fix it and release it. There were only a few small things to fix and these have been fixed, just needs a quick holiday test so should be up later.
    Last edited by magicmastermind124; 08-03-2012 at 11:23.

  44. #2144
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    No worries - haven't had a chance to do the editing yet anyway so just exploring the options available. I'll pick up your data when it is ready. Be really good to include those lower leagues.

  45. #2145
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    It's now available again.

  46. #2146
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    Cannot wait!! The Bandits are back baby!

  47. #2147
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    Oddly excited to soon be dragged back into the world of refreshing a Bandits thread every 5-10 minutes to see if any updates have been posted

  48. #2148
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    It's been over 2 years since last 09 experiment update was posted, and we are still so excited about Bandits. Amazing!

  49. #2149
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    Updates v6.2 again and for the final time, all bugs now fixed. Sorry if this affects anything you have done although you could create the file with whichever teams you are using separately and then run the file with ours.

  50. #2150
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    Quote Originally Posted by magicmastermind124 View Post
    Updates v6.2 again and for the final time, all bugs now fixed. Sorry if this affects anything you have done although you could create the file with whichever teams you are using separately and then run the file with ours.
    No, I saw your thread and waited for the update today. Been going over the last few pages of this thread to make sure the design itself was right. Seriously - thanks for the update, this is going to be enormously helpful.

  51. #2151
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    We love you kipfizh, we do! We love you kipfizh, we do! Oh kipfizh we love you!!

    'Mon the Bandits!!

  52. #2152
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    Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but are you planning on running everything on full detail again this time around?

  53. #2153
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    I noticed another Steam update today, not sure what it was about.

  54. #2154
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    Updating to 2.2.1 to address some issues from the 2.0 update.

  55. #2155
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    There may be a 6.21 update later this week, just letting you know.

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