Will Leeds ever stop being favourites for relegation? I do hope kip comes back soon as this experiment is awesome... I read the last one with great interest. I have a feeling both clubs might be staring relegation in the face this season...
Will Leeds ever stop being favourites for relegation? I do hope kip comes back soon as this experiment is awesome... I read the last one with great interest. I have a feeling both clubs might be staring relegation in the face this season...
With FM2011 closing in the horizon, I, too, lost my belief in this continuing. Very big thanks to Kip for all his work up to now if he ever sees this
Apologies for the very long absence, I had no idea whether I was going to have the time to continue the experiment or not so didn't want to say a) that it would, and keep you hanging, or b) that it couldn't, if there was some chance of it happening.
Sadly, it is difficult for me to have a spare minute at the moment (new job, new baby), let alone enough time to compile the sort of report that would continue the experiment in faith (there is only so much cutting down before it becomes worthless), and with no prospect of that changing this side of Christmas I'm afraid I'm going to have to call it a day on this particular experiment. By the time I could pick it up again, FM11 will be in full flow, and in keeping with my 'purchase every two years' policy, I will have moved on to that.
I would like to say a massive thanks to everyone who has followed this, and the FM07 one which went so much further - what started out as a big of fun turned into a huge affair because of your reactions to it. So thank you, genuinely. You are the reason I want to return and continue.
Once things settle down, I will be back in 2011 with a new experiment, in the new game, and using the new functionality (look for the Bandits and Sheriffs in the lower lower lower leagues). I will start it at a time when I can commit to putting in the required hours - stringing along with an update every six weeks isn't ideal for anyone.
Once again, thanks - and sorry this one couldn't go further. But to utter an immortal phrase, I'll be back...
It was good while it lasted Kip. I look forward to the next one and cheers for the effort put in over the year as these have always been an essential read.
Good luck with the new baby mate, mine's 14 months old now so I know exactly how much time they take up. Enjoy.
Cheers kip. You'll always be a legend in CSE regardless.
we thought we were your baby. :'(
ah I kid, you have given us a lot of good times and I'm sure everyone will join me in wishing you the best in your exciting new world. Would you be interested in uploading the game file if anyone is interested in continuing it? Even just zooming through a couple of decades to give us a very wide-scope resolution would be nice.
Cheers for the notice Kip. Congrats on both the job & the baby. Let's all have a good rest till FM2011 then. It will surely be a cracking one given the new features
If you believe he will return............... he will.
Congratulations all round Kip.
Good to have you back.
Viva La Bandits
I saw Kips name and got excited! Thanks for the stories and memories. Bandits will live on in my mind.
Until 2011... Up the Bandits
Last edited by leonavich; 10-09-2010 at 01:24.
Thanks a lot for everything, Kip. We'll be waiting for your next update, whenever it is. Good luck and have fun with life.
Kip is dead! Long live Kip!
Can only echo the above Kip, I've loved following this experiment!
Roll on FM11
Loved the experiment while it lasted, good luck in sorting all the stuff in your life and I look forward to reading your absolutely gripping reports in a new experiment sometime in the future.
Thank you for your time and your effort.
This thread was better then a lot of books that I read.
Good luck with your job and your child.
Well I have to say I really enjoyed reading that - all 21 pages! Every page was enjoyable, and I'll definitely be following any future projects. I've learned a lot from this thread; it was educational as it was enjoyable. I'd like to mimic fabioke by saying thank you very much for your time and effort.
Cheers for the update KIP. Shame you've had to call it a day. But there is life outside of FM. (as i've just found too)
Good luck with your personal quests. And i look forward to the next update.
You actually read through all 21 pages? About 20 and a half pages is filled with people wondering if Kips dead.
I read through the original thread using CTRL+F "kipfizh"
Shame this one couldn't get as far as the first, one of my favourite things on the entire forum. Thanks for the hours of entertainment kip, and good luck with real life!
Sad to see this end before its time.
Please be sure to post about the new thread in the main forum as I'm sure everyone who regularly posts/checks there will be waiting for it!
post in this thread too though, I never go in CSE anymore.
Is this series dead now? It would be understandable if a shame but I really enjoyed reading these.
I'm guessing as it hasn't been updated for over 8 months that it definitely is dead.
In fact this is Kip's last activity
It would be good if somebody else could take it over. Woudn't be the same as Kip doing it, but would be nice to see it live on.
Come on guys. Don't up a topic like this one. I had a heart attack seeing it on top thinkin we are back in business!! Jokes aside though, I don't quite thing anything similar to this will have the same effect so we should better accept the fact that Bandits are over after all those glories
As I talked about above, this particular incarnation of the experiment is dead - life simply got too busy for me to continue, and it would be nigh-on worthless to pick up again, since it is based on FM2009.
However, the series is 100% categorically NOT dead - I actually haven't purchased FM since FM2009 but will be getting FM2012, and the experiment will return once the game has stabilised. That doesn't mean waiting until after Christmas, it means waiting for the first/second patches to come out that address the things missed in development. So while I predicted that the next iteration would be FM2011 (which was wrong), it will return in 2011. Just.
So what can you expect? Well, without knowing what is in FM2012 yet, it is hard to say, but the Bandits and Sheriffs will return, each with their pre-determined squad and staff members, entered at the lowest rung of the football ladder that I can put them in, which might even be a custom league. I'll be utilising as many of the new features from the three FM games since FM2009 as possible, before constructing those mammoth reports I always keep you waiting for I even have a plan of when I can do it.
Oh, and one person bumps the thread after months and three old school fans are there within half an hour? You guys are awesome.
Looking forward to coming back.
I'd just like to put on record that I made all this possible... Please form an orderly queue for the secret ballot to vote me the most awesome bumper of old threads... *takes a bow whilst holding flowers*
I'll add Bandits 2011 (Xmas) to Star Wars:TOR in my list of things I'll be impatiently waiting for.
And has just got us all really excited. I'd like to retract my earlier notion for someone else to take over...
Ohh sir you still are a big tease!! Roll on FM2012 then. We should bump Miles to hurry the production
OOoooooo I'm so excited now. Kip - could you start to reveal your plans during the summer to keep us entertained?!
I unbookmarked this thread. But thank the lord for the Bandits fan page on facebook. Good to hear from you Kip & i look forward to Fm12 & your first update (and the months pining & waiting for the next )
Maybe every time SI release a feature, I should do the same
In all seriousness, I do want to open a quick poll for one of the features, which is around the nationalities of the players. In the FM07 project, all 22 starlets and both idiots were English only. In the FM09 project, the 22 starlets and four idiots had dual nationalities - English and one other, where each of their other nationalities were different from each other. I want to change it up a bit this time, and I've got a selection of options. Please choose from the following, and if you can back up your choice with a compelling reason why it should be chosen, your vote will count double.
a) Make all starlets and idiots English only (as FM07)
b) Make all starlets English only and all idiots another nationality only
c) Make all starlets and idiots dual nationality - English and one other, where that other nationality is different each time (as FM09)
d) Make all starlets and idiots dual nationality - English and one other, where the 'other' is picked from a pool of 4-5 leading nations.
e) Make all starlets and idiots an entirely random nationality.
f) Make all starlets and idiots an entirely random nationality, but make sure no nation is picked twice.
g) Make all starlets and idiots dual nationality, where both nationalities are picked at random.
h) Make all starlets and idiots dual nationality, where both nationalities are picked at random, but no nation is ever picked twice.
i) Split the starlets and idiots in half, between two nationalities, so that both country could play 11 starlets if they wanted.
j) Other - please specify.
I'll start the voting (my vote doesn't count double!) with e - I like the idea that a small nation can get lucky by getting three starlets, but also that they wouldn't be scuppered by dual nationality, and all their players choosing to play for the bigger nation. I imagine a situation where Luxembourg get two strikers and a central midfielder and suddenly become a force, and I'd be interested to see what effect that has on co-efficients, and maybe even that nation's league.
h) Make all starlets and idiots dual nationality, where both nationalities are picked at random, but no nation is ever picked twice.
Because it would be good to slightly alter the experiment rather than try the same experiment again. But I think a good idea would be to have Bandits affiliates across the world to see if players are more likely to choose to play for the country they are residing in rather than another one.
But anyway, it's good to see you back, kipfizh. Unfortunately, I wasn't on the forums when you ran both of the Bandits sign-ups; but I spent a couple of hours scrolling through them when I first joined the forums.
So...once again, it's good to see you back.
I'd like to say "A" just to see Englang get knocked out by penalties one more even with the starlets Jokes aside though I'd go with E & J coupled. Totally randomize the nationalities but make sure they are the smaller ones in different parts of the world. Maybe make a pool of 40-50 countries and randomize in between them so some may get lucky to have 2-3 starlets as well.
H) Would definitely be the most interesting as you would come up with COMPLETELY random results.
H) as said in previous post for increased randomness
Didn't follow the previous series, but i'm now up to speed after reading though the past two editions :P
Good to know that this will be back in the future
Spent all day reading this From start to finish.
Even greater by the fact its starting again. I believe its because i was reading
I vote for H.
I love randomness, it's just so.. random!
I reckon you should make each starlet random nationality, but only within the nations with very low co-efficients. As you mentioned, Kip, it would be interesting to see how smaller nations progressed, but if done at random, it will unfairly advantage one of the bigger nations - its unlikely any nation would be picked twice, and the highest ranked team with a starlet would have a huge advantage. If the starlets were split randomly between, lets say, the 50 or so starlets with the lowest status, it would make World Cups more interesting.
I dont know what you think of this (and I realise it could make your reports too long) but I'd be in favour of having a larger number of starlets - provide each of the teams with a larger squad so that more players are split between the nations.
I make it 220 nations on FM in total. If you set the bar at 100 ranking points, you would be splitting the players between approximately 35-40 nations (this is going on my game from 2021, but I doubt the numbers would be hugely different). Set it at 50, and you have around 20 nations. Would be great to see how much of a lift a couple of starlets would give a nation like Somalia, Aruba or Tonga. My recommendation would be that you should set it at the level which means that each nation would have, on average, two starlets. In practise, some will have none and others might have 4-5. I like this element of randomness, and it would be interesting to see how the distribution of high CA players varies amongst the nations who benefit. Does having two starlets from a country where there are very few players already in the database lead to having a team like Equatorial Guinea rapidly rising through the rankings? OOooooo I'm going to try this, it's exciting!
Id like to see whether having one starlet makes a huge difference though. Will we end up with World Cups between only teams who were originally given starlets?!
You need to consider the effect that nationalities have on work permits etc - if a starlet is (for example) Brazilian only, he won't break into the national team whilst he's still with the Bandits (at least for a few years) which will impact on his ability to gain a work permit. That could of course be another tweak to the game - these players would have to stay with the Bandits or move to a country which doesn't require work permits, as they wouldn't get a permit for a move to an English club.
My suggestion would be to split them between the eleven lowest ranked EU nations so they get two each, would be interesting to see how much that would allow these nations to challenge the established powers in Europe.
Awesome to see you back Kip! I can't wait to see the Bandits return!
My vote is for i) Split the starlets and idiots in half, between two nationalities, so that both country could play 11 starlets if they wanted..
I like this, we might see an idiots vs starlets world cup final! It would be great for those who are a fan of one or the other.
Ideally I like the idea of random countries, but the work permit is an issue. Unless you set them all to have English as a second nationality (since they've come through the youth academy of the clubs) but make sure they are declared for their main nation. Thereby having the best of both worlds! Voila!
The randomness would be fun, and the chance for Armenia, or similar, to end up with a couple of starlet strikers would be fun to see.
Wow, a revival!!
I would like to see;
j) All starlets and idiots are dual nationality. Main nationality is different for each and made up from the lowest 50-ish smallest nations in the game. Second nationality is then English for all. This would (hopefully) add an extra dimension to see if they follow their heritage and play for their small nation, or end up playing for England. If even half a dozen play for their home nation on the world stage it would be great to see if they could elevate their nation into the World Cup or other international tournaments.
Just wondering if there is any chance to know (If you know) or see a screenshot of how the premier league seasons went in the FM09 bandits.
SO frustrating reading it all and not knowing how they played in the premier league.
EIther way loved this experiment
Can't remember if I've previously posted, but this is by far my favorite thread on these forums and I've had it bookmarked for ages so I'm delighted to see kip's back!
With regards to the nationalities I'd love to divide the starlets up into groups and put them each into small nations to see how much they impact them. Maybe groups of 2-3 divided between 10 countries?
In order to get around the EU thing, give them English as a second nationality, but have them already declared for the small nation. Or even give them 1 cap each.
Summary: Option (j) and welcome back!
Hmm, at the moment I'm leaning towards a combination of your ideas. The consensus seems to be:
a) Randomness is good.
b) Dual nationality is more popular than single.
c) Low ranked nations should get them.
d) Work permit could be an issue.
So at the moment, the winning combination would be to pick dual nationality for each player, where one nationality is a low-ranking EU nation and the other is a low-ranking nation from somewhere else in the world.
The alternative is to randomly pick one low-ranking nation from anywhere in the world (including EU), declare them for that nation, but give them English as another nationality. But most of you seem to be preferring the dual nationality.
Amazing. Kip hasn't been on here for 8 months but somehow knows that this thread was upped and appears from nowhere? The man's obviously some kind of freaky, psychic googlebot!
Great to see you back though, and I'm positivily giddy at the news that this will eventually be returning as I was sure it was dead and gone for good. It's quite strange thinking back that it was 4 years ago now when the first one started, and I've followed it from pretty much the first day. I think I remember posting on the first page of the first experiment saying how interesting it sounded. I had no idea back then what a beast it would become. But anyway, I'm getting all nostalgic and I'm digressing.
e) Make all starlets and idiots an entirely random nationality. - This would be my vote for the next experiment. Because at the end of the day it is an AI experiment, and the original provided a lot of insight into the workings of some aspects of the AI. Stuff that was taken onboard and improved for future iterations of the game. And this is the option that gives the most balance experiment imo. As you have pointed out, you could get a very small nation ending up with 2 or 3 starlets, and it would be very interesting to see the effects this would have on the game world. Similarly, you could end up with a medium nation - someone like Belgium - who have 2 or 3 idiots. Again it would be interesting to see the impact these players have on the national team. They will be too good to not be picked, but will their talent be enough to improve an average national team, or will their bad influence make the team worse overall?
But whatever option you go with I can't wait.
No, in all seriousness, it wasn't a coincidence - 5ergio pointed me in this direction - I'd love to claim psychic powers but I wouldn't want to be as much of a fraud as.....well, those who claim psychic powers.
Just to let you know kipfizh that using the Advanced Rules of the editor it is possible to change the work permit settings.
You could always split up the players so that they are equally distriputed between each continent. That way we could see the Bandits having all the major International trophies.
Fantastic news about FM12 experiment.
My opininion about nationality - dual, with first being fully random, between any nation in the world, and second nationality English (but not declared for England, unless first nationality is drawn to be English).
Seconded - but I'd vote for the 2nd nationality to be any EU country, but the player to be declared for the small nation. I've started a similar experiment just focussed on the effect on the country. The starlets are still young, and havent broken in, but will report back on my findings on where teams like Samoa, Andorra and the US Virgin Islands are. I got round the work permit issue easily - there is an editor option to add certain nations to the "EU" for specific country, so for the purposes of my game, the following nations are all part of the EU as far as England is concerned:So at the moment, the winning combination would be to pick dual nationality for each player, where one nationality is a low-ranking EU nation and the other is a low-ranking nation from somewhere else in the world.
Papua New Guinea
St Pierre & Miquelon
Turks & Caicos Islands
US Virgin Islands
So far, there seems to be very little impact on the nations except that the grey players and regens tend to start having the same names as the starlets (as I set all their first names as "Legend", there are a lot of people called this now!). Once the regens start playing for the senior international sides, I think things will start to change. Its probably the easiest way to get around this work permit issue. Realistic it aint as much as the last one, but is realism really what we're after here?
Last edited by GreyedOutMan; 03-06-2011 at 15:07.
kip is back!
I'll go with what most others have gone for.
The kids are starting to make their mark on the international scene now - will let you know how much difference it makes. Will they qualify for 2014? Doubt it....
Just starting to move up the rankings, though, these boosted teams. Andorra have so far been the biggest movers. All of those countries were in the bottom screen of the world rankings originally - from rank 187 downwards. Andorra are now ranked 169. Hard to see why they've moved up. They've only beaten Chinese Taipei, Moldova and Kuwait since the game started, and managed just one point in their European Championship qualifying group. To be honest, the funny names are the biggest difference to the game I've seen so far. Nothing dramatic, but again, the legends are only 15/16.
EDT: None of the teams who were allocated legends made it into the 2nd, league phase of North American qualifying for 2014. Wonder how long it will take for them to improve significantly.....this might suggest that the legends are too diluted, but they are still young....
Last edited by GreyedOutMan; 03-06-2011 at 17:57.
I've been waiting for this day for so long
Hi guys! In honour of kip I made a FM2010 version for myself but I put all the starlets (40 something of them) as either Andorra, Luxembourg, San Marino, Armenia, Azerbaijan(spelling), Faroe Islands, Liechtenstein, Albania and Malta. Andorra and San Marino got GK, LB, CB, RB, RM, LM, CM and ST all of an orginal 150 CA at the age of 16. Andorra just qualified for the World Cup 2010 and lost all 3 games in it whilst San Marino came about 5th in their group.
Luxembourg got the same but 125CA LB, RB, RM, LM and got quite close to qualification on both occasions. Armenia got the same again but LB, RB were 125 CA and RM was 200. They missed out on qualification for Euro 2012 by being the worst second place points scorer.
Azerbaijan and Faroe Islands only got a CB, CM and ST all at 125 CA and came 2nd bottom in qualifiying both times. Liechtstein were meant to get a CB, CM and ST at 200 CA but they dont get to play for Liechtenstein due to cpyright (i think). Malta got CM, CB and ST all at 150 CA and did slightly better than the Faroes and Azerbaijan. Albania got the 4 idiots and did nothing special again.
Note: All players had height 210
The reason for this lack of progress (in my view) is that the AI mangers for these nations are so bad that they dont always play the starlets and rather leave them on the bench, and when they need a win against lets say Belarus, they would rather hang on for the draw instead of going for the win. Another problem is that injuries and suspensions do come round quite regularly and effect each game, making the nations very inconsistent. However, they could probably beat anyone on their day and it is very interesting to watch.
Now I have just started a FM2011 version and am 1 season through I made an extra 21 players (there is now a duplicate button in the editor for players ) who can all play any position but GK. Added to that I made every starlet have 20 finishing, composure, jumping and heading to see if it had any effect. I also adjusted the players with 200 CA to 175 CA and the ones with 125 CA to 130 CA, and moved all Maltese/Liechtenstein/Albanian players to Azerbaijan/ Faroe Islands. Yet again the nations have been very inconsistent even the likes of San Marino who have 13 starlets.... the only 3 nations with a hope of qualifying are Armenia, Luxembourg and Azerbaijan for Euro 2012. However, I am interested to see what the future holds.
So my advive/ opinion for your 2012 version would be: Assuming you have the same amount of starlets again next year put them all in two lower ranked nations, maybe stronger ones than I did or you could put them in different continents which would be interesting as well.
If anyone has any questions feel free to ask . Sorry for bad spelling/ grammar I am in a rush!
Oh and... thanks for such a great read Kip
One of the most interesting things about your experiments are their ability to explore the unknown. We found out the idiots' ability to disrupt a team in the first experiment, the ability of a player played in the wrong position to flop even if they were unbelievably talented, and in the second experiment, the ability of a rich chairman to bankroll success with stupid wages, and the failure of idiots to ever reach their abilities, so on and so forth.
It would be fascinating to see how the starlets can benefit their various nations. Can one single starlet bring Argentina/Holland to the top of the world, or will they still fall behind Spain, Brazil etc? Can a starlet dig a rubbish team out of the mire, like San Marino? If so, which position? Does a world class goalkeeper enable a poor team to "do a Greece", and succeed by lucking out on penalties? Or do you need a midfield general who can close out opposition attacks, and spray passes to less talented compatriots with enough space to get the ball down and score? Or do you need a top striker who can take on an entire team and decimate them, outnumbering the goals let in by the hapless defenders?
If one of those options is going to tell us more about FM, I suspect it has to be option (e). Option (f) is very similar, but prevents us from having the possibility of two players combining, which gives us yet another dimension.
Very much looking forward to the coming developments Kip
11 starlets (one in each position) in one major nation such as England, Spain, Italy etc
5 starlets (varied positions) in a medium nation (Austria, Hungary etc)
3 starlets (one defender, one midfielder and one attacker) in a small nation (Estonia, Montenegro etc)
1 starlet in a tiny nation (Liechtenstein, Andorra, San Marino etc)
5 starlets (varied positions) in a tiny nation
1 starlet in a medium nation
and the same for the idiots (that's 26 of each idiot.) I'd suggest doing this all in Europe as there's more variation in the quality of nations there than any other region, plus it would help with the work permit issue.
As another variation without actually using the starlets or idiots it might be interesting to remove all the players with a PA over say 130 from one major nation, just to see how they bounce back as regens come through. (My preference for this would be France )
snooty_jim and others, very well argued case. I think you touch on a particularly valuable point, which is the variety of things we can find out. The desire to see what effect stars had on San Marino doesn't actually mean all 22 starlets have to be at poor nations - a handful will be enough to see what effect they have.
So, perhaps I'll write a little bit of code (it's what I do, after all), that takes all the names and assign them to random countries, and run that in a loop until at least one country has two or more (just so we don't have 26 distinct nations, it'll be fun if SOMEONE has an advantage). Then, I'll either give all the players a second nationality of English, but declare them for their chosen nation, or fiddle with the EU settings, depending on how the new editor works.
The selected countries might affect which countries I run on full detail - would a Turkish star return to his homeland if the league was fully available?
Ok, next poll:
This one is regarding the idiots. I won't disclose my plans for how many, positions etc, because that's all set in my mind, but I do want to make them more interesting than they were in FM09. Just to recap, in FM07 they were superb players who fell out with everyone, but had the ability to play well. It meant they travelled around a lot and never really tasted success, but their raw talent was such that every struggling club was willing to 'give them a go'. In FM09, all the players started with 150 CA and 200 PA, and the idiots actually got worse year on year, because a greater link was made between personality and training.
As a result, in FM09, they were nigh on useless. No-one got on with them, but their lack of progression meant that they would be doomed to a life of mediocrity. All valuable info to learn, but not very interesting.
This year, they will change again. They will still be stunningly talented, highly controversial, disloyal hackers and divers, who dislike the Bandits, each other and anyone who isn't a 'yes man'. But, and this is a big but, I'm considering making it so that despite all their flaws, they are actually hard working players, with the rationale that even with their idiotness, they are self-aware and selfish enough to know that they need to put in some yards.
So here are some options. Again, pick your favourite, or suggest something else.
a) Make them as FM07 and FM09, and see how the game handles them now.
b) Maximise their workrate and determination, to make them work at their own game, but otherwise make them as FM07 and FM09.
c) Make two factions - half of them a), half of them more hard-working, determined by equally controversial and disloyal. Make both factions like everyone else in their faction, and hate the other side.
I'd go with c. I'm pretty sure FM12 will treat the idiots just as in FM09 as they will not give their bests but to track a few players that can become world beaters waste their careers in mediocrity is just as entertaining. On the other hand, we should definitely have a few self aware idiots that knows they have to train to be good but they are controversial as much as they are hard working
I'd go with half-half, i.e. Option C.
A hard-working but controversial player would be like Tevez, wouldn't it? You can't argue that he puts his head down and gives his all during games, but he just can't keep his mouth shut and stop complaining...
Agree with the two above. Option C for me too.
It'll not only be more fun if you keep it from us, (at least initially) so we don't know which idiots will work hard, and which won't. But it also offers another level of comparison to see how the game handles extremes.
BenArsenal - Hard working controversial would surely be much more of a Balotelli? No-one doubts he's brilliant, and has got better, but he remains a true knob. Similar, I guess, with Barton, Cassano and the like. Whereas the otherend of the 'idiot-spectrum' are players like Jermaine Pennant (though he's turning full-circle), who never reach their lauded potential, and perhaps Axel Witsel is getting that way. Nigel de Jong also springs to mind, but his off-field antics aren't reported on much...
So with the two, we could see a Balotelli/Gazza version of an idiot versus a Witsel/Paul Merson version - never quite getting there, but still being quality in their own way
I know you have already made you decision of how the players get their nationality, which includes making sure players are eligible for work permits, but I think a completely random method has merit, as if players end up coming from a non-EU background, it would be interesting to see how that impacts their career, whether they stay in England to gain a dual nationality or move abroad to a league without work permit rules - as you said, this experiment is all about seeing how extreme situations are handled - in this case having a star player who is having trouble getting a work permit! Therefore, I would vote for (e) or (g)
As far as the idiots dilema goes, I would be leaning towards (c), again to see what we can learn from both batches of idiots
Option C for me too. Good to see this will be back. Remember finding the FM07 thread when the players were at their peak and catching up with it over the course of a few days, slowing down as I got closer to the latest posts so I wouldn't 'finish it too soon', a habit I have when reading a particularly good book
Option C for me
Think it would be interesting to see how much the engine has changed in regards to how it calculates work rate, training and a rise in CA.
Either option C
And have it so that you set them all up as idiots and then have their work rate as a random stat, which means then when you load you may not have exactly half and half, but a random selection of players who may have high work rate, average, low and stupidly low.
just nice to see Kip back and a few other familiar contributors, interested to see what happens next
I'd go with option C. It would be good to see how's selfishness vs lazyness in FM
For what it's worth, option C
I have an additional idea for the experiment:
Make some "celebrities"; players with extremely high reputations but are absolutely useless at football. Make some of them come from big nations such as England, Brazil and Spain and the others will come from minnows such as the Faroe Islands, Macau (China PR) and Anguilla. It would help figure out many things about the game, such as whether one player's reputation can affect attendances and it will also be intriguing and interesting to observe.
So i am a little late to the "party" but i got a feeling to check out this board after months and months of not doing so. So yay "They're back"
Anyways i vote C and not letting us know which batch of Bandits are which until they retire.
This is still going on?
That gets the nod from me. More "fun" factor and also the greatest scope for insight.c) Make two factions - half of them a), half of them more hard-working, determined by equally controversial and disloyal. Make both factions like everyone else in their faction, and hate the other side.
Hope you are keeping well Kip. ;)
I don't know if I'm the only one, but my main focus in reading this was on the teams performances. After about 3 seasons you simply know what's coming at te players. The idiots keep stagnating and act like idiots, while the bandits slowly build their monumental carreers. After the third season I only read the team reports. And I bet that keeping up with al the statistics is a hell of a lot of work, wich - imho - was unnecessary.
I've read alot of stories over the past years here, this was one of the best of them.
Welcome Back Kip!
Option C gets my vote, as its really like having the Best, the worst and the few in between.
In regards to the players' nationality, I have a feeling that one good player wont make much of a difference in the larger sense (World Cups, etc) but it definitely does in the qualification stages. This is what I notice in my save anyway. The lower nations and randomizing a loop to have 2-3 for a couple of nations sound like a better idea than randomizing everyone as it gives them a chance to compete in the major competitions, not just qualifying rounds. Otherwise, it will be a case of lost in the crowd of international obscurity.
Really great to see you back Kip... Bring on FM12!
Oh my, seems I've been away from this forum for a bit too long. Welcome back, Kip!
I can't wait for this new experiment, it's gonna be awesome. And I like the idea of both random nations, to see what effect the players have on their chosen nations, and of split-dedication idiots, it will be interesting to see how much a hard-working self-absorbed loudmouth can achieve
I would vote for letting the game treat the idiots as the same as FM09, I would like to see if things differ at all, although I'm definitely outnumbered here...........
Where are we on this experiment now we know a little about FM12?
Yeh is Kip still alive?
Kip hasnt posted for 3.5 months. Planning for the challenge or given up? (Just thought I'd bump this in case he's forgotten about us :P)
He never starts these things until the 2nd patch - expect news around the turn of the year....
Don't worry, I'm still here, and still very much doing the experiment. As civilservant said, it'll be around or just after the turn of the year, patch dependant. Of course, if there are few issues with the game post first patch, I'll do it on that.
As for features, I honestly haven't looked at what is in FM12 yet. Got into reading here again before the SEGA hacking saga, so took a break to play my own game (FM09, no less!). Will start reading now...
Hmm, so having had a look at the new features, I don't see too much that affects the experiment, apart from some bits that might improve things, such as a more accurate representation of countries and their ability to change in strength over time.
I'm actually more interested in the editor, and whether any of the changes give me more scope for playing around. One thing I am interested in - did anyone add extra leagues below the bottom default playable one? And is it effective?
People added leagues down to level 10 for FM10, and it worked pretty well. There were real-world problems with the league that meant those mods didn't work so well for FM11, but it shouldn't have those problems this time round.
are you thinking of starting the bandits at a much lower level this time around then? might be interesting, although I could see it getting a bit dull if they need twelve promotions just to get to the Premiership...
That'll teach me for giving up and unbookmarking
If it counts, I think dual-nationality, but at very low levels (the Malta/Faroe/Andorra's of this world). If you fancy potential to pop here and there then there are enough EU nations these days to have a tiny EU nation and a tiny 'other' nation.
Given that you'll have 22 idiots and 22 starlets (if memory serves, which it might not) it might be worth putting four per nation otherwise you'll quickly end up with guys in those borderline-good nations like Bulgaria and Mexico.
One of the big gains this year will be the ability to add leagues, so if a player moves to Grampus Eight, it's only a click away from following them properly.
Hooway the Bandits
Indeed the "add-remove" league option will be lovely to chase players wherever they are
interesting read, but way too many variables. plus, the sheriffs were really only bound to get good players. all they had were poor players to start with, but could easily overcome that with correct spending, which they did.
a better experiment would be to have the Bandits have wonderkids with terrible management, but all of them have minimum fee release clause of 100M. The Sheriffs would have terrible players, but good management, and no fee release clauses.
Now, you may be thinking that the Sheriffs could easily just get all good players, which they will, but the Bandits have already quality players. it would be more of a good players + bad management vs. bad players + good management. the one you did was good players + good management vs. bad players + good management.
I'm thinking about doing one similar, or a save where you have two groups of wonderkids, but one group is given a consistency rating of 20 and important matches of 1, and the other would have the a consistency rating of 1 and an important match rating of 20. Ho I could explain in depth but what would you think?
consistency vs. inconsistency. would the important matches factor come into play, during promotions, playoffs, and regular league games, or would consistency have a larger role.
just some thoughts. I have a billion ideas.
The reason that good management was used was the original Bandits thread they never really got anywhere because they had consistently terrible managers.
haha i just started to read this for the first time last night and ended up staying up until 2am :\
Waiting patiently on the next edition
I would suggest lowering the starting CA to around 100 and (if you start the Bandits/Sheriffs on level 10 or something) maybe put the starlets in other clubs higher up.
I would find it more interesting following their development not being 100% sure they would max out their potential...