AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

[civilservant]

We had a really detailed World Cup too which was really good, we're all praying Kip makes it through his bout of Swine Flu* now though...








*NB: He dosen't actually have Swine Flu, but he is sick

[henryzz]

he has got chicken pox(the adult version)

[roberto922]

Shingles ?

[antonjw]

Shingles ?

I wouldn't think he's up to dancing, mate.

[Martin_]

I wouldn't think he's up to dancing, mate.

Groan

On a not-really-related-at-all-but-grasping-at-conversational-straw note, can players get shingles on FM09?

[antonjw]

Groan

On a not-really-related-at-all-but-grasping-at-conversational-straw note, can players get shingles on FM09?

I dunno but it doesn't happen all that much in real life, does it?

Would be a bit of a poxy feature.

[Carrotdude]

Remember your coat on the way out.... haha

[Denther]

Wouldn't be suprised if Kip caught swine flu because of all the spam in this thread

Ok I'll get my coat as well

[chippitychip]

HI KIP!!

HAVE YOU WORKED OUT HOW TO INCLUDE REAL PLAYERS FOR gERMANY YET??

[chippitychip]

[Post Edited: Don't post how to get around license restrictions, you don't want the thread locking...]

[iacovone]

Not sure you're within forum rules giving that advice there chippitychip

[markymarky]

if Kip is cut down in his prime by this bout of swine flu, will his children spend decades wondering whether or not to publish his unfinished update?

[waz_nufc_awk]

Apparently the Doc asked why he thought he had Swine Flu and Kip said it was because of the Rashers on his back, when he asked them how long he'd had them he said about a weeeeeeeek.

(Grab's his coat and makes a run for it)

wazz

[iacovone]

Apparently the Doc asked why he thought he had Swine Flu and Kip said it was because of the Rashers on his back, when he asked them how long he'd had them he said about a weeeeeeeek.

(Grab's his coat and makes a run for it)

wazz

Mods? This can't be allowed to stay within such an historical thread

[Martin_]

I find the muppet posting in all capitals far more offensive

IF I TYPE LIKE THIS THE INTERNET WILL HEAR ME LOLZ

[Pompeyboyz]

The Pigs have nothing to be worried about with this swine flu anyway........most of then end up being cured....

<and I'm outta here>

[StewartJRobertson]

HI KIP!!

HAVE YOU WORKED OUT HOW TO INCLUDE REAL PLAYERS FOR gERMANY YET??

Can everyone please drop this subject. The majority of us here are long standing fans of this thread and it would be criminal if it were to be locked because of a few muppets who keep breaking the rules. Am i the only one who is starting to get annoyed by this?

[waz_nufc_awk]

no you're not.

[Denther]

Can everyone please drop this subject. The majority of us here are long standing fans of this thread and it would be criminal if it were to be locked because of a few muppets who keep breaking the rules. Am i the only one who is starting to get annoyed by this?

Don't mention the war!!!

[el sid]

Well if you are sick, take care kip

[wisescummer]

Don't worry, looks like that idiot has been reported and his post deleted. Hopefully he'll also get some kind of official warning to his future conduct. Idiots like that will end up ruining the game for the rest of us.

[epping2ongar]

IRL Bad news for the team the bandits came from, Fisher Athletic..the,ve just gone bust.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...nf/8048100.stm

Maybe they could reform as the Bandits..

[Insert_Goal_Here]

More than week since the last post... Hopefully the next update will be a blinder

[Vintage]

IRL Bad news for the team the bandits came from, Fisher Athletic..the,ve just gone bust.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...nf/8048100.stm

Maybe they could reform as the Bandits..

If we'd known this earlier, We could have all got a consortium going, and installed Kip as the new chairman.

[iacovone]

If we'd known this earlier, We could have all got a consortium going, and installed Kip as the new chairman.

Yep.

We really missed a trick there

[HD]

Good stuff so far. Just had to catch up from before the final season of the 07 one, so plenty to take in.

[Martin_]

Don't mention the war!!!

We've already had that joke a few weeks ago, I think we're getting cabin fever in this thread.

[Denther]

We've already had that joke a few weeks ago, I think we're getting cabin fever in this thread.

My bad

Cabin fever has ravaged all aboard
This once proud vessel has become a floating psycho ward
We were sailing, sailing headed who knows where
And now though we're all here
We're not all there

Cabin fever!

Lets just hope Kip doesn't catch it

[kipfizh]

Right folks, I'm back to (almost) full health now, at least I've been cleared to be around people as I'm no longer infectious. I still look like a 'join the dots' puzzle, but feeling good so the next season report should be coming in the not too distant future.

And it's another good 'un

Thanks for your patience

[flamedude]

Right folks, I'm back to (almost) full health now, at least I've been cleared to be around people as I'm no longer infectious. I still look like a 'join the dots' puzzle, but feeling good so the next season report should be coming in the not too distant future.

And it's another good 'un

Thanks for your patience

Ily <3

Good News

It has been a while.

[Spleen!]

Good to hear you're feeling better kip

[5ergio]

Welcome back Kip. Good to hear you are better now, even better to hear it's good report that we are waiting

[Meitheisman]

And it's another good 'un

I feel promotion for both teams again...

[iacovone]

Sheriffs! Sheriffs! Sheriffs!!!!

[DodgeeD]

Thanks for keeping us updated Kip. Hope you are fully recovered soon.

Looking forward to seeing if the Sherrifs have caught up with the Bandits yet or not.

[Tomaldinho]

Let's go Bandits!

[StewartJRobertson]

As much as i am a Bandits fan and want to see them shoot through the leagues, i kinda hope they dont get promoted this season so the sheriffs can catch them. Would be nice to see them in the same league again.

[5ergio]

The only league the Sheriffs can catch us will be Premier League, that is if they can make it

[StewartJRobertson]

Ooooohh... stoking the rivalry 5ergio. I like it!

[deltablue]

I would have posted the same last night but as its still one league difference and quite a few to go I didn't want to set myself up for a fall. Thankfully 5ergio is bolder. Won't be long before we see how things have been going. But as either we stay ahead or have a season of rivalry (Here's a subject for discussion, which is more important?) I don't mind. Yes we could swap divisions but thats so unlikely I'll make up for my earlier cowardice by saying that I'll pen a poem in homage to the Sheriffs if it does.

[iacovone]

Probably should just pen a poem anyway IMVHO

[wisescummer]

There once were two teams with much cash,
The bandits were great but the Sheriffs were trash,
Their points total was low,
back down they would go,
and the bandits went out on the lash.

Thanks, i'm here all week!

(i'll get me coat)

[roberto922]

There once was a team called the Sheriffs
Who got to the top on their merit
Their points total was high
So up they would fly
And the bandits were a flash in the pan

[deltablue]

A legend made 2 clubs for Poole
the Bandits were really quite cool
the Sheriffs weren't bad
but eventually went mad
While the Prem we were destined to rule

[Insert_Goal_Here]

Is this poets corner?

[roberto922]

I wouldn't use such a word, it really is quite absurd

[wisescummer]

This is what happens when we have to survive nine pages with three updates. We go slightly mad.

[antonjw]

I wouldn't use such a word, it really is quite absurd

Yes, but whilst the above rhymes perhaps ain't too hard,
and will certainly make their authors no Bard,
you have me in a huff,
'cos when written off the cuff,
these limericks
generally deserve
a bit
.
more praise
.
than
.
.
that.



...k?

[Insert_Goal_Here]

oh dear, we need Kip before this thread plumments to new depths

[GreyedOutMan]

I am shocked! This is terrible! Kip please save us!

[iacovone]

I did not expect this.

[deltablue]

Well nor did I but the example was set for me. Would try a proper one but I think we've all had enough. Anyway moving hastily on... I raised another point about my mixed feelings over whether it was better for the bandits to stay ahead of the Sheriffs as opposed to having them catch up before the Premiership, as what would be lost by the feeling of clear superiority would be gained by the more involved rivalry. its similar to a conundrum I'm in at the moment as I'm an Ipswich fan with one of my best friends at uni (sadly coming to a close) is a norwich fan. We talk a lot on a variety of football topics but our fan situation makes it extra special when we talk about our teams and the derbies. With them now down while its highly amusing I wonder how far thats balanced by the loss of derbies and direct competition, though we're both about to leave anyway. Maybe its just me as I sometimes feel a need for a rival as a point of comparision (and have after a few years put in a few friends in my game 'in absentia' for that reason) and everyone else doesn't care as long as their team is superior. Not quite the same thing as we'll certainly have all the Bandits/Sheriffs rivalry we need in the premiership (or before) but I was wondering what other bandits (or even sheriffs imagining the positions were reversed) think, as the point of one team being a league ahead had been raised in banter when I mentioned it.

[iacovone]

Yeah I'd much rather see them rise through the divisions together, just to have a good topic of conversation in here. It'd be a shame if the Premiership was the next time they'd meet imo.

[Vintage]

Not quite the same thing as we'll certainly have all the Bandits/Sheriffs rivalry we need in the premiership (or before) but I was wondering what other bandits (or even sheriffs imagining the positions were reversed) think, as the point of one team being a league ahead had been raised in banter when I mentioned it.

I'm sure Bandits fans and the club would rather reach the Premiership and wait to play the Sheriff's there rather than miss out on promotion one season in order to get the derbies.

[DB1]

Let the Sherrifs Catch up with us in the premier
To be honest though I think that we'll meet before that. Prob the championship. Would be surprised if either team makes jump from league one, champ then prem in 3 seasons. Would love to have the bandits get there first but think we'll both go up together

[Wegason]

Pah, you are all expecting the Sheriff's to actually reach the Premiership. Mwhahaha

[DB1]

Pah, you are all expecting the Sheriff's to actually reach the Premiership. Mwhahaha

Got to give these smaller clubs hope

[markymarky]

if the Sheriffs were the scoundrels they're supposed to be they'd catch up with the Bandits by somehow cheating their way up two divisions at once. V. disappointing!

[deltablue]

If this was italy they could. Anyway I do think the championship is the most likely point. we only have the last experiment to go on and this is clearly different. We don't even know if League 2 was stormed (may well have been) let alone what will happen in league 1 but IRL it's not too hard to walk through it (Not only Peterborough but Southend was only a few years ago) so no reason why not unless all the backrooom staff and board go (as even if the manager goes there'd still be a good board to hire as good a successor as possible). While the championship will be very hard to get out of so its much more likely that will take time, so that depends on whether the sheriffs manage to keep it up. They should have an extra season at least to catch up. It would be great to have a Play-off final between the 2. Thats an opportunity we won't have in the premiership (even if there will be cup finals).

[5ergio]

Agreed with deltablue there. A playoff final trashing off the Sheriffs will be much much more enjoyable

[wisescummer]

The rise does of course depend on how long they keep managers. I expect the bandits one to be leaving pretty soon, and we don't know exactly whether the changes to the board will have the desired effect.

[deltablue]

Given what the last lot were like and what difference it's made in other areas it probably will. Plus even if not as long as they're up more before that happens as said the sort of rise to the championship isn't something you need to be a special club to do. Anyway glad the head of the bandits supporters club (on the basis of the fb group) agrees as I wasn't sure what not necessarily wanting to be way ahead of the Sheriffs (for the 'competitive rivalry') was doing to my fan credibility.

[Insert_Goal_Here]

Anticipation rising

[Carrotdude]

Urge to kill...rising...

[kipfizh]

P.S. Kipfizh, I've stumbled across your namesake on HockeyArena, would it be you?

Certainly would

[Denther]

Certainly would

Aagghh, thought it was an update

[kipfizh]

I think that this is something to be fixed by Sigames, it is strange if the number of really good players rise all the time and one thing that you very seldom see is players dropping in ability before their natural decline kicks in, take for example Owen in real life, he’s ability has clearly dropped too early compared to other top class strikers in real life, but this does not seem to happen in FM.

I think the issue here is simply that the initial database does not match the bell curve that the game state later settles to. In the FM07 experiment, once everyone in the game was a regen, the number of players and staff with a certain level of ability remained roughly static. The trouble is, that isn't reflected in the initial database.

It's tricky to know what SI should do - in a way I'd suggest running a holiday game for fifty years, taking the number of players with a CA and PA each level, for each age group, and attempting to apply it to the initial DB.

The trouble with that approach is that I suspect the average CA (and certainly PA) of the starting world will be lower, prompting complaints. The game world tends to be weaker fifty years in - at the start the overall quality of players in the world seems to be at it's greatest.

(One of the reasons I always play FM with fictional players - that and forcing myself not to use any real life knowledge or forum tips)

[kipfizh]

Am i alone in being shocked that kip has kids? Thought he was like 15!

Heh - I'm worried what that says about my writing style

[kipfizh]

As much as i am a Bandits fan and want to see them shoot through the leagues, i kinda hope they dont get promoted this season so the sheriffs can catch them. Would be nice to see them in the same league again.

Must admit I've debated this point myself. But realistically, we want to see both teams going up the leagues (whoever you support, chances are you want a) success for your team and b) your rivals in your league so you can whoop them twice a season), and it isn't easy for both sides to get promoted from the same leagues.

They'll get back together in time

[kipfizh]

Right, as the report is nearly finished, and you've been so patient (nice poetry, by the way) I thought I'd give you a slice a little early, so here are the summer details.....

Season 2010-11

Club reports – Summer Transfers

Following hugely successful seasons for both the Bandits and the Sheriffs, that saw them win their respective leagues, it was anticipated that both would strengthen their squads ready for the next challenge. For the Sheriffs, that meant the Blue Square Premier, and for the Bandits, that meant league football in League Two.

Bandits

Having secured promotion to League Two, the Bandits took a hard look at their squad and decided that plenty were simply not going to make it at the higher level. In total, ten were released in the first two days of July, all on free transfers. Plenty of the top twenty from last season were included, but they were lower down the last and/or aging to a point where non-league football was all they could strive for.

The important thing was building a side capable of challenging in League Two. As a guide, a CA of 100 puts you in the upper echelons (37 players in League Two), a CA of 110 puts you in the top ten in the league, and a CA of 120 makes you a star.

With that in mind, Dream Manager began to assemble his new squad. His first signing was a bit inauspicious, 31 year old striker Chris Templeton arriving on a free transfer from St. Johnstone. With a CA of 71 and falling, he was unlikely to make much of an impact. Star striker Liam Dickinson (53 goals last season) had little to worry about.

Next came Clark Keltie, costing £8k from Lincoln, and the 27 defensive midfielder is reasonable – a CA of 88 is unlikely to reach the PA of 105, but he makes for a good squad player. Following him came Matt Phillips, a 20 year old winger costing £80k from Wycombe. His CA of 89 also makes him a decent player in League Two, but his PA of 127 means he could grow with the club for a good while.

And then, out of the blue, the manager signed a very familiar name – Marcus Bent. The striker was now 33, and having been left out in the cold during Birmingham's doomed Premiership campaign last season, he decided to move on, joining the Bandits for a paltry £30k. With a CA still at 121, he instantly became one of the stars of the division, and the prospect of him joining forces with Dickinson had the fans salivating. It had been a slow start to the summer, but business had most definitely picked up.

Looking to the future, the manager then picked up the unattached Tom Miller, a 20 year whose CA of 67 could rise to 128 in the future. Costing nothing, he had nothing to lose. He then turned his attention to the defence, signing 25 year old Michael Townsend for £250k from Cheltenham. His CA of 95 was very healthy.

Two more would arrive before the window closed, and the first was another prospect, and another free tranfer – Martin Hunter is a 20 year old keeper, with a CA of 63 and a PA of 110. If the Bandits remain in League Two, he could become a real player in the long term, but hopefully by the time he gets there the club will have outgrown him.

The final transfer was an expensive one, but probably the best capture of the entire summer. Somehow, the manager convinced Norwich to part with Mark Burton, one of their brightest prospects, for £1m, a lot of money for a League Two club but absolutely value for it. Burton is a versatile defender who can play anywhere across the back, and has a CA of 113, putting him in at the very highest level of League Two. And the most incredible thing is that he is just seventeen years old, and has plenty of time to aim at his PA of 163. Capped at England youth levels, he is a stunning signing.

And with that, the manager closed his book. Last season, he had just three players with a CA over 90, but he has added to that considerably this summer, building a solid squad and including a couple of absolute stars. It should be enough to secure safety, but how far can the likes of Marcus Bent push them?

Sheriffs

The Sheriffs had the most powerful squad in the Blue Square South by a distance last season, and ended the season with six players above 80 CA, the only six in the division. In the Blue Square Premier, the average number of 80 CA players was four, so already they had a decent set of players, but in this league there are also around twenty players with 90 CA, and a few in three figures. Nonetheless, a solid squad is a good starting point – the summer gave an opportunity to add some star quality.

As with the Bandits, the Sheriffs released a group of players that could not make the step up a division – six were let go. Believing the squad to be talented already, the manager decided to take the approach of finding the right target or two instead of making wholesale changes, and in the end signed only two players.

But both were worth waiting for. Nathan Ellington's contract with Derby had expired, and somehow he was convinced to relocate to the south coast and join the Sheriffs – still only 29, the striker's CA of 114 was ten higher than anyone else in the entire league. His signing was a major coup – he would be the sixth best player in League Two, so he is clearly playing at a level below that which is capable.

That got the fans exceptionally excited, and the second signing was pretty decent too – left winger Ryan Smith arriving from Grimsby for £110k. The 24 year old has a CA of 102, with a PA of 120 being very reachable, and is the third best player in the division.

So the Sheriffs took their squad, allowed some of their youngsters to improve (some rose to the 90 CA mark), and signed two of the three best players in the league to drive them forward. Will it be enough to ensure another successful season?

[Netm]

Kip, quick question, how is the idiots personality described in-game?

[ljdzsgffk]

Thanks for the update Kip!

It looks as if the Sheriffs will be promoted but its much harder for the Bandits. I think the Sheriffs will join the Bandits in league 2 in this season and the Bandits will stay.

[iacovone]

Sheriffs clearly with the 2 best signings there

Nathan Ellington

[damienroden]

Nathan Ellington, how far you have fallen.

[StewartJRobertson]

Burton could be a masterstroke if they can hold on to him. Glad they are using their financial muscle early on. If i remember correctly, they seemed cautious about spending in the first experiment (in the early seasons at least).

I predict Sheriffs to comfortably win their league and Bandits to reach the playoffs but miss out on promotion this season.

Im far too excited about this thing. I really should get a life at some point.

[hasdgfas]

Sheriffs clearly with the 2 best signings there

Nathan Ellington

I completely agree.
Should be a pretty good season for the sheriffs if they play as well as they can

[BenArsenal]

Ellington in the Conference.

That'll be the day...

[deltablue]

wow. Exciting stuff for the Sheriffs. I doubt we'll be apart for long at this rate as they're shaping up as a worthy adversary. As you can imagine with my 'close rivalry better then boringly 1 sided one' views I find this exciting. Bring it on.

[bennyd81]

Kip's back! Happy times.

Both teams seem to have made som good signings there. Bent can bang in some goals and push the Bandits up the league

[OrientMartin]

From the signings I would predict 10th place for the Bandits in League 2, narrowly missing out on the play-offs and the Sheriffs romping away with the Blue Square Premier title.

[Samuel Vimes]

Sweet update

One thought for update - as you're now simming with many leagues, would it be possible to see the top six in the UEFA coefficients, to see whether there's any changes in the strongest leagues over time?

[Meitheisman]

If Dream Manager stays the Bandits could grab a playoffs spot, and reach their peak at the end of the season securing another promotion. *fingers crossed*

Good signing for both teams, the boards and managers are definitely way more prone to using their financial strength than in the 07 experiment.

[Muzgrob]

Wow, it is really looking good for both teams, hopefully Bandits can consolidate this season and fight for play off spots and then make a major push for the tilte next one.

[Adamw]

Sheriffs will go up this year.

Hopefully the Bandits won't so we can whoop them next season

[Wegason]

Bandits will win promotion, as will the Sheriffs. If the Bandits are struggling by January, the manager will sign some more good players.

[sten_super]

kipfizh, a quick question if I may. I have noticed in my own game good players going to clubs below their station (although admittedly at Premiership level) when wanting to move on; however encouragingly (from a realism perspective) this has been accompanied by a massive increase in wages (compared to their previous clubs). Looking at the high profile signings of Bent, Ellington and to a lesser degree Smith, has something similar occured? i.e. are they getting paid an absolute fortune (in relative terms) to play at these relatively low levels?

[Tomaldinho]

Marcus Bent for the golden boot this season, fact.

[kipfizh]

kipfizh, a quick question if I may. I have noticed in my own game good players going to clubs below their station (although admittedly at Premiership level) when wanting to move on; however encouragingly (from a realism perspective) this has been accompanied by a massive increase in wages (compared to their previous clubs). Looking at the high profile signings of Bent, Ellington and to a lesser degree Smith, has something similar occured? i.e. are they getting paid an absolute fortune (in relative terms) to play at these relatively low levels?

Oh yes. Looking at the leagues, the most the Sheriffs are paying in wages is £20.5k a week to Philliskirk, and Ellington is second, picking up £15.3k a week.

The Bandits, however, are being extravagant, and paying Premiership wages to attract people down the league (they are actually richer than the Sheriffs at the moment). Marcus Bent is on £90k a week, Tom Kilbey £82k a week, with four more over £40k a week.

To put that into perspective, Marcus Bent is now the 43rd best paid player in the world.

[Blackcats]

£90,000 pounds a week !!!!!

I'd do pretty much anything for that amount of money a week

[Denther]

To put that into perspective, Marcus Bent is now the 43rd best paid player in the world.

Daylight robbery

I'll get my coat

[Vintage]

90k for marcus bent. jeeeez. Good to have you back KIP!

[markymarky]

interesting! are we going to end up having to resent the Bandits for shamelessly buying their way up the leagues, Kaka and Messi rocking the Championship on £1m a week? A really clever feature, that.

[JamboJen]

Oh yes. Looking at the leagues, the most the Sheriffs are paying in wages is £20.5k a week to Philliskirk, and Ellington is second, picking up £15.3k a week.

The Bandits, however, are being extravagant, and paying Premiership wages to attract people down the league (they are actually richer than the Sheriffs at the moment). Marcus Bent is on £90k a week, Tom Kilbey £82k a week, with four more over £40k a week.

To put that into perspective, Marcus Bent is now the 43rd best paid player in the world.

Ridiculous money!

Knowing that, I think the Bandits may well get a play-off spot as they clearly aren't afraid to splash the cash. Sheriffs will win BSP by a mile.

[deltablue]

wow, I'm managing a side thats consistently prem table-topping and CL-challenging (in other words, top-class) and none of my players are on anything like bent and kilbey (though a few have in the past). Well we'd better rise up the leagues sharpish paying players that money. Are there stats regarding financial prudence? Because if there are I think you missed that one.

[Kenco]

It's great that they are spending big money, this is what they should have done in the 07 experiment.

[Vintage]

spending money they are but not on class, more on wages for average players, with them wages they realistically should be getting bigger and better players to drop down leagues, mainly those reaching the end of their careers.

[markymarky]

don't forget they're still only in League Two, to get a player who could still be making a decent go of Championship football is a major coup (oops, we've started with the poetry again). I don't think it'd be realistic if they were nabbing people who can still compete at the highest level, and, more importantly, they don't need to - the manager is smart enough to spend enough to get into League One without wasting money just so they can thrash everyone 8-0.

[deltablue]

Even considering the fact that they're great signings and they can't expect top class players in league 2, 90k a week is rather excessive for decent championship players (probably anything below leading premiership level in fact) let alone this division. They're turning into Man City except the attempts to compensate for all the downsides of the transfer with excessive money is actually working. You know somethings odd when we're making the sheriff's 20k a week in the BSP seem prudent. A job at a top city bank awaits for the entire management. Admitedly we're talking about a much bigger and richer club then you'd expect at this level which enables the boundaries of what's realistic to be pushed quite a bit but I'd be amazed if one of the big 4 were put in league 2 as punishment for something and pay new signings that much (even if they might keep similarly high earners) which is as close as I can find to put this into perspective.

I've just noticed how negative that looks. I didn't mean for it to be quite that strongly disapproving especially as its not exactly the fault of anyone here. I don't think I actually mind that much what is spent at what level especially as it brings success. I have no idea what came over me there.

[StewartJRobertson]

I actually laughed out loud when i read that Bent was on 90k p/w. That has to be the most ridiculous thing that has happened in this experiment.

[Heisenberg]

I actually laughed out loud when i read that Bent was on 90k p/w. That has to be the most ridiculous thing that has happened in this experiment.

I have to say, I'm looking forward to see what the wages are like once the Bandits reach the Premiership.....


Only part an update Kip? Why must you taunt us so?