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Thread: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

  1. #1
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    Default AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    A little history lesson

    Back in FM07, an experiment was created to analyse how the game engine would handle extreme circumstances. A fictional team, the Bandits, were created, given 22 superstar teenagers, a huge bank balance and the freedom to rise up from their initial starting point of the Conference South.

    In addition, two bad eggs were created. Equally as talented as the kids at the Bandits, they had abysmal mental statistics, with no intention of loyalty or even working hard.

    The experiment ran for over two years of real time, and nearly 70 years in-game.

    [EDIT - if you want to skip straight to the first update, you'll find it here:

    http://community.sigames.com/showthr...3#post2946303]
    Last edited by kipfizh; 25-03-2009 at 12:10.

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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    What did we learn?

    Back in FM07, reputation was everything. Once the superstars had all retired, all the Bandits could claim to be was rich. Their financial status (by then they were worth close to a billion) didn't seem to help their reputation all that much, and they were unable to buy decent players, and more importantly, attract a decent manager. The fact that their board had less talent than Titus Bramble's weaker foot didn't help either.

    That said, the Bandits did make it to the Premiership, although it took them a good few decades to make it. They nearly won it one year, but in the end, despite being the second richest club in the land (behind Chelsea), all they had to show for seventy years were three League Cup trophies. No league, no FA Cup, no European glory.

    As for the players, the young Bandit kids all moved on within two years, and most went on to forge terrific careers in the Premiership (and one in Milan). Those that struggled, notably the wide players in Chelsea's midfield (Chelsea were playing a narrow 5-3-2 while they were there) lacked the ambition to move to a club more suited to them, and as such lost valuable years of their careers.

    The idiots, being complete muppets, were set to hate the biggest clubs in Europe, and as a result refused to move to them. However, they did complain that the second rate clubs they stayed at weren't good enough, so they weren't exactly helping themselves. Despite playing well themselves, it became apparent that having Anelka's sulkier brother in your dressing room is bad for the club - wherever they went, their team struggled despite their awesome individual talent.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Why did the experiment end?

    Well, my laptop died. But in reality, it was coming to a close anyway - there were plenty of things we learnt along the way, and plenty of ways I'd change the experiment if I started it again. All these are detailed below.

    In the end, only the England league structure had changed in 70 years - if you don't run a country as a playable league, the dominant teams don't change, and if you don't play a league on full detail, the scorelines rarely vary.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    So what is staying the same?

    The Bandits have been recreated for FM09 (replacing Fisher in the Conference South), and are once again blessed with a huge bank balance (25m to start), fanbase and stadium. In other words, they are financially set for life.

    The 22 superstar kids have also been recreated, with two for every position of a standard 4-4-2. They have perfect attributes (adjusted down on game start), perfect mentality, are both footed, versatile, fit,honest, excellent in a free role, and have just passed their 17th birthdays.

    Each kid has 150 CA and 200 PA, loves the Bandits, and is as loyal as can be. That probably won't stop them leaving, however, although they have minimum reputation to delay their inevitable departures.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    What about the changes?

    The 22 superstar Bandits:

    In FM07, the kids were wonderful, but altogether a little unambitious. In that experiment, their ambition was set to 1, but here it has been raised to 15 so that they can recognise when their careers have stalled. It should also drive them to succeed with a passion they didn't have before. Thanks for VonBlade for this suggestion.

    Also, only a handful of the FM07 starlets went into management when their careers ended, probably again because of a lack of ambition. This time, they have maximum desire to step into management.

    Finally, each of the 22 have been given a second nationality, varying all around the world, from huge nations to obscure. The test is to see if any of them choose their second nationality as the country to represent (thanks to Meitheisman for this one). They are as follows:

    Goalkeeper 1: Argentina
    Goalkeeper 2: Brazil
    Left Back 1: Croatia
    Left Back 2: Denmark
    Right Back 1: Equatorial Guinea
    Right Back 2: France
    Centre Back 1: Germany
    Centre Back 2: Holland
    Centre Back 3: Italy
    Centre Back 4: Jamaica
    Left Mid 1: Kazakhstan
    Left Mid 2: Luxembourg
    Right Mid 1: Mexico
    Right Mid 2: New Zealand
    Centre Mid 1: Oman
    Centre Mid 2: Portugal
    Centre Mid 3: Qatar
    Centre Mid 4: Rwanda
    Striker 1: Spain
    Striker 2: Thailand
    Striker 3: USA
    Striker 4: Vanuatu

    The idiots

    In FM07, there were only two idiots, and they could play absolutely anywhere (except in goal). Both started the game unattached, and both acted as if being a moron was a national competition. In FM09, there are four (count em) of them. One goalkeeper, one defender, one midfielder and one striker.

    Each of the outfield idiots can play centrally or wide, and they are excellent in a free role. However, they have no work rate or teamwork, their mentality is the worst possible, with a 1 for everything except ambition and controversy, which are maxed. They are dirty hackers, and they like to dive into tackles and argue with the referees.

    Like their counterparts at the Bandits, they also have a second nationality, completing the 26 alternative nationalities starting with every letter of the alphabet (except X - they aren't any!). Their second nationalities are:

    Idiot Goalkeeper: Wales
    Idiot Defender: Northern Mariana
    Idiot Midfielder: Yemen
    Idiot Striker: Zambia

    They also hate 22 clubs the world over. Why 22? Well, there are 21 clubs with a reputation of 8000 or more, and they are:

    England - Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool
    Spain - Real Madrid, Barcelona, Sevilla, Valencia
    Italy - Inter, AC Milan, Juventus, Roma, Fiorentina
    Germany - Bayern Munich
    France - Lyon
    Portugal - Porto, Benfica, Sporting
    Brazil - Sao Paulo
    Argentina - River, Boca

    In addition, they detest the Bandits, and all they stand for. All their hate, incidentally, is marked as permanent.

    And the idiots also want to move into management. They didn't in FM07, and the thought of the most unstable men in the world guiding the careers of others is frankly hilarious.

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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Who are the Sheriffs?

    The Sheriffs are the antithesis of the Bandits. Replacing Bognor Regis in the Conference South, they are the Bandits great rivals, and the natural home for each of the idiots. All four start contracted with the Sheriffs, a club they love. But an idiot's love is never permanent, and unlike the kids over at the Bandits, their favouritism of the Sheriffs can fade. It should be interesting to see how the idiots fare at the same club - in FM07 they never played together.

    The Sheriffs have exactly the same reputation, financial muscle and youth setup as the Bandits, and their ground, the River Styx, is identical to the Bandits' home of Ocean View Park. The only difference is that the Bandits have a sugar daddy while the Sheriffs do not.

    Each of the 22 Bandits hate the Sheriffs as much as the idiots hate the Bandits.

    Note that while the Bandits start with 22 players, the Sheriffs begin with only four. They will be forced to use their financial strength immediately.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Surely the Bandits and the Sheriffs are almost identical, and once the players leave there will be no difference?

    The ethos at a club comes from the top, so in this version of the experiment, both the Bandits and the Sheriffs are assigned a chairman, a director, a manager and a coach. All are appropriate to their clubs.

    The Bandits chairman has the same mentality as the superstars (including their ambition), while his chairman stats read 20 for business and resources, 15 for patience, and 8 for interference. With their financial clout, the odd chairman purchase is no bad thing.

    The Sheriffs chairman is the opposite, with the same mentality as the idiots, and chairman stats reading 1 for business, 20 for resources, 1 for patience and 20 for interference. He's rich, talented and annoying.

    Both chairmen have 200 CA and are aged 30. The directors are in exactly the same ilk.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    And the managers?

    The Bandits' manager is the same age and mentality as the chairman, and also has 200 CA. The tactical attributes that have been set are: 20 for attacking, flexibility, free roles, pressing, tactical knowledge, tempo and playmaker usage, 5 for dirtiness allowance, and 1 for sitting back. The idea is to make him play attacking, flowing football.

    On the non-tactical side, both scouting judgements abilities, buying players, man management, motivating, and working with youngsters have been set to 20. Everything else is set to zero to randomise them - the other attributes personalise the manager without necessarily making him better or worse.

    As for the Sheriffs' manager, he has the same awful mentality of his boss, and the same 200 CA talent. His attacking preference and allowance of dirty play is set to 20, as is his hardness of training and discipline. The combination of him as a hard taskmaster and the idiots as lazy beasts could be fiery. He is as brilliant a spotter of young talent as his Bandits counterpart, and loves to play mind games.

    The Bandits also have one perfect coach, with the expected excellent mental strength and ability, while the Sheriffs have a brilliant but insane one teaching their young players how to play. Both want to become managers in their own right.

    Note that all players, and all off field staff, have a minimum reputation.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Any other changes to the clubs?

    Both clubs have been relocated to Poole, with the area growing to a 20 million+ acropolis, with a maximum attraction rating. It is where the kids want to be, but which club's youth academy will get them?

    Finally, how about the changes to the game world itself?

    In FM07, only England was a playable league, meaning the rest of the world stayed fairly static, and brilliant young players could not be tracked, sometimes disappearing because they played in the wrong country. In addition, nothing was played on full detail, which normalised a lot of the results. The Bandits never had a more extreme scoreline than 5-1 in the 70 year history.

    England is still the main country, but each of the nations with a 8000+ reputation club (Spain, Italy, Germany, France, Portugal, Brazil and Argentina) is playable down to their nation's second tier, and those nations are joined by Belgium (for work permit reasons), Holland and Scotland.

    Also, the whole of the English game will be played on full detail (including cups), as will all competitive internationals in the world (in FM07 the same countries qualified endlessly because this wasn't the case). In all other playable leagues, the top division and the domestic cups will be on full detail, as will continental competitions.

    A country by country breakdown follows.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    England

    Playable down to Blue Square North/South (max depth - 6/6).
    Full detail on for all leagues, FA Cup, League Cup, Johnstone's Paint Trophy, Community Shield, FA Trophy and Conference League Cup
    Full detail off for reserve and under 18s

    Argentina

    Playable down to Second Division (max depth - 2/2).
    Full detail on for First Division
    Full detail off for Second Division

    Belgium

    Playable down to Second League (not max depth - 2/3).
    Full detail on for Pro League, Belgian Cup and Super Cup
    Full detail off for Second League, Under 19s and Under 21s

    Brazil

    Playable down to Second Division (not max depth - 2/3).
    Full detail on for First Division and Brazilian Cup
    Full detail off for Second Division, all state competitions, reserves and Under 20s

    France

    Playable down to Ligue 2 (not max depth - 2/4)
    Full detail on for Ligue 1, French Cup, Coupe de la Ligue and Champions Trophy
    Full detail off for Ligue 2, reserves and Under 18s

    Germany

    Playable down to Second Division (not max depth - 2/3)
    Full detail on for First Division and German Cup
    Full detail off for Second Division and Under 19s

    Holland

    Playable down to Eerste Divisie (max depth - 2/2)
    Full detail on for Eredivisie, Dutch Cup and Super Cup
    Full detail off for Eerste Divisie, reserves and Under 19s

    Italy

    Playable down to Serie B (not max depth - 2/3)
    Full detail on for Serie A, Italian Cup and Super Cup
    Full detail off for Serie B, reserves and Under 20s

    Portugal

    Playable down to Liga Vitalis (not max depth - 2/3)
    Full detail on for Liga Sagres, Portuguese Cup, League Cup and Super Cup
    Full detail off for Liga Vitalis, reserves and Under 19s

    Scotland

    Playable down to First Division (not max depth - 2/4)
    Full detail on for Premier League, Scottish Cup, League Cup and Challenge Cup
    Full detail off for First Division, reserves and Under 19s

    Spain

    Playable down to Liga Adelante (not max depth - 2/3)
    Full detail on for Liga BBVA (La Liga), Spanish Cup, Super Cup and Federation Cup
    Full detail off for Liga Adelante

    Continental Competitions

    Full detail on for World Club Championship, Champions League, UEFA Cup, Intertoto Cup, Super Cup, Copa Libertadores, Copa Sudamericana and Recopa
    Full detail off for North American competitions (not sure why this was even an option given that I'm not running any North American leagues)

    Internationals

    Full detail on for World Cup, African Nations, Asian Cup, European Championships, Gold Cup, OCE Nations Cup, Copa America, Confederations Cup, Olympics, all youth equivalents, and qualifiers.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Game Start

    So having started the save, what is instantly noticeable?

    1) The players have had their attributes reduced to 11 across the board (originally set to 20), except for many physical attributes, flair and a couple of others, that remain at 20. This is because their CA is 150, and they still have time to improve in the right areas for their positions. This was expected.

    2) Their home reputation has been adjusted to fit their stunning ability. Set to 1 in the database, they are all 6749/10000 so quite famous. Their reputation outside England is still minimal.

    3) The perfect coaches have had a few coaching attributes dropped from 20 to 18. They can't be perfect, it seems. Fair enough.

    4) Both perfect coaches were given the assistant manager position at their clubs.

    5) All the players have become part of international youth setups immediately. 18 of the 26 are involved with the England Under 19s or England Under 21s squads, while Argentina, Brazil, Holland, Italy, France, Portugal and Spain have taken their players. Only Centre Back 1 is overlooked.
    Last edited by kipfizh; 16-03-2009 at 16:24.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    So here's a quick question to start off - in FM07 you could add players to your shortlist even when unemployed, which was extremely useful for this experiment, as I got all the news about each of the players I was tracking.

    This doesn't seem to be the case in FM09, is there any way of doing it?

  13. #13
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Wow.
    I could not be more excited.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Excellent start to the night after a tiring day at univ. About shortlist issue, people tend to add themselves to lower league clubs & form a list there, holidaying & saving the list as far as I know. Never tried it though.

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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Quote Originally Posted by 5ergio View Post
    Excellent start to the night after a tiring day at univ. About shortlist issue, people tend to add themselves to lower league clubs & form a list there, holidaying & saving the list as far as I know. Never tried it though.
    Good idea. Might add myself as a second tier Belgian manager or something, so that there's no way I can interfere (a Blue Square North side could get promoted and meet either the Bandits or Sheriffs, or meet in a cup).

  16. #16
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Read through a lot of the FM07 threadbut never posted there, will voice my support in this version though

    Unfortunately I can't help you with the shortlist much though and 5ergio's suggestion is the only one I know of.

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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Great to see this again. Made for awesome reading.

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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    I think you can also add to a shortlist as International manager. So perhaps you can manage a country that the players are not involved with.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Think your gonna have to add youself as amanager and use ast manager. Not ideal. but should work.

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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    When a thread needs 12 introductory posts you know it's going to be a stormer

    Looks good already Kip, the improvements and additions should make this even more interesting than the previous version.

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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    So excited the bandiots are back.

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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    great to see this back up and even more interesting this time around. Only way around the shortlist problem I've found is to take control at a club where I know there will be no interference with the players involved. Good luck Kip (not that you'll need it )

  23. #23
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Same as above followed the last one from last year onwards but never posted (not sure why) will be fully behind this one

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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    I am looking forward to following this

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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomaldinho View Post
    When a thread needs 12 introductory posts you know it's going to be a stormer
    It's actually a very good way of doing things imo, I'd have still read it all if it was in one post, but I'm sure a lot of people would have been put off if they saw such a mahoosive opening post

  26. #26
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    I would say this needs to be a sticky, but I think with the interest its gonna generate it's gonna be high up anyway.
    Last edited by DB1; 16-03-2009 at 16:51. Reason: Added Sarcasm

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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Not that many people come into the CSE forum though, do they? Most head straight for GD and OTF so this may get lost by the masses.

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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Quote Originally Posted by DB1 View Post
    I would say this needs to be a sticky, but I think with the interest its gonna generate it's gonna be high up anyway.
    to quote Ter from the original experiment -
    No, it doesn't need to be a sticky. It's not any more important than any of the other topics.

    You don't need to constantly bump it either as I'm sure kipfizh will post an update when he gets a chance then everyone can discuss the results.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomaldinho View Post
    Not that many people come into the CSE forum though, do they? Most head straight for GD and OTF so this may get lost by the masses.
    Judging from the number of replies already, there'll be a fair few readers

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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulHartman71 View Post
    It's actually a very good way of doing things imo, I'd have still read it all if it was in one post, but I'm sure a lot of people would have been put off if they saw such a mahoosive opening post
    Yeah, I can't help but scan read huge swathes of paragraphs. I have to do so many posts because I'm utterly unable to keep things concise

  31. #31
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Oh god yes!! Here we go and I'm in from the start!! Good luck kip

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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Good to see it start again!

    For CB1 not having a call up: has it something to do with the German team not being licensed?

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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Its like a new patch release. The buzz is high. Can honestly say I am really looking forward to the new Bandits. Rivals and second nationalitys. These are going to make it very interesting

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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Hurray its started \o/

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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Quote Originally Posted by Grec View Post
    Good to see it start again!

    For CB1 not having a call up: has it something to do with the German team not being licensed?
    Maybe Kip needs to "internet search engine"

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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Can't wait for this! I think the best way to do the shortlist thing is to become manager of a weird nation who have no games except the odd friendly.

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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Quote Originally Posted by Grec View Post
    For CB1 not having a call up: has it something to do with the German team not being licensed?
    Absolutely no idea, but I'll watch his situation and see if it changes!

  38. #38
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Can't wait Only started reading towards the end of the 07 experiment so glad to be here from the start this time and good luck

    One question though, that's alot of leagues, I take it you've got a PC that will be able to handle that many 20 years down the line?

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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Hold on surely we should make some predictions???

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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Pre-game analysis - Bandits squad

    The Bandits start the game with only the original starlets, all with 150 CA and 200 PA. There are no other youth players at the club.

    Pre-game analysis - Sheriffs squad

    The Sheriffs are forced to bring in a few players to augment their squad of four, and their initial set looks like this:

    Idiot Goalkeeper, 17, GK, 150-200
    Idiot Defender, 17, SW, D RLC, 150-200
    Idiot Midfielder, 17, WB RL, DM, AM RLC, 150-200
    Idiot Striker, 17, FC, 150-200
    Miller, 16, MR, 66-177
    Jones, 16, MC, 43-115
    Clifford, 16, DC, 43-105
    Garvey, 15, DC, 40-40
    Lees, 16, MC, 39-73
    Fairclough, 16, ST, 37-110
    Whittingham, 15, MC, 35-53
    Martin, 16, GK, 34-111
    Hook, 16, DC, 29-112

    A tiny squad, and the idiots are the senior members at present. And what role models they are.

    In all seriousness, they do have a gem - Miller has a tremendous potential of 177 (not that he'll still be with the Sheriffs when he gets there), and his CA is the best of any player in the Blue Square South, beyond the 22 starlets and the four idiots. For this level, he is a special talent.

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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Pre-game analysis - World beaters *WARNING!!!!! - Player naming!!!!!!!*

    Typically, once the regen system was in full flow in FM07, there were around four 190+ CA players in the world at any one time, and between 20 and 35 180+ CA players. We won't find out until much later whether this is the same in FM09, but we can take a look at the initial numbers, and see if they are balanced with the regen numbers in years to come. So here are the current 190 CA players:

    Cristiano Ronaldo (Man United/Portugal, 23, AM RL, 190/195). Will surely reach his peak in the next couple of seasons.
    Lionel Messi (Barcelona/Argentina, 21, AM RLC, 190-195). Even younger than Ronaldo, will be in this list for years.

    And that's it. So a lower number of 190 CA players to begin with, whether that's because the regen system used to create too many, or whether it is tougher to reach 190 CA in FM09 will become clear in the years to come.

    Number of 190+ CA players : 2
    Number of 180+ CA players : 12
    Number of 170+ CA players : 60

    Number of 190+ PA players : 24 (excluding starlets and idiots)
    Number of 180+ PA players : 142 (excluding starlets and idiots)
    Number of 170+ PA players : 515 (excluding starlets and idiots)


  42. #42
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Pre-game analysis - Best players in the Blue Square South

    (excluding starlets and idiots)

    Miller (Sheriffs, 16, MR, 66-177)
    Main (AFC Wimbledon, 27, FC, 65-70)
    Holmes (Chelmsford, 20, AMR, 64-123)
    Rainford (Chelmsford, 29, MC, 64-75)
    Riviere (Eastleigh, 29, AM RC, 63-70)
    Turk (Newport County, 27, DM/AMC, 62-72)
    Davis (AFC Wimbledon, 24, MC, 62-70)
    Dudfield (Chelmsford, 28, FC, 61-69)
    Sheringham (Welling, 20, ST, 60-97)
    Kedwell (AFC Wimbledon, 22, ST, 60-72)

    The Sheriffs' young right winger, John Miller, leads the way, and he and Holmes can expect big moves in the coming years.

  43. #43
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Kipfizh = legend.

    Watched the FM07 Bandits ever since week 3 or so, and loved it all the way (despite the lack of success).
    Can't wait for this one!

  44. #44
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    It would be funny if all the younger players at The Sheriffs ended up learning bad habits from the Iditiots

  45. #45
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    This looks very good Kip, hopefully will be as good as the original

  46. #46
    roberto922
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Great updates, I love the detail you go into, it immerses us into the story more than any other experiment

  47. #47
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Quote Originally Posted by corinthiano View Post
    It would be funny if all the younger players at The Sheriffs ended up learning bad habits from the Iditiots
    Yeah that would be a superb touch. Particularly if those players then stuck around at the Sheriffs. They could gain a reputation as a breeding ground for absolute fools!

  48. #48
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Quote Originally Posted by corinthiano View Post
    It would be funny if all the younger players at The Sheriffs ended up learning bad habits from the Iditiots
    I'd love to see this happening. Idiot players all around the world. Now that will be fantastic to watch

  49. #49
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Right, we're set to go. Turns out the holidaying manager must be a club manager (the Netherlands Antilles managerial post does not allow a shortlist), so VW Hemme in the Belgian Second Division have an absent manager. Ah well.

    I won't be holidaying the first season until tomorrow, so until then:

    1) Feel free to make any predictions you see fit to make.
    2) Let me know of any more pre-game analysis posts you want to see.

  50. #50

    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    I'll be quite interested to see how the two teams adapt to losing their best players (as much as the idiots are idiots, they're still good!) after the first season. And just how both the teams progress (or don't) over time.

  51. #51
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    Talking Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Wow. i just got a message on facebook about it restarting.. I loved this last time. can't believe its been two years. I stopped reading once the players had retired then i re-found it again a couple of months later a re-read it all in one lecture haha.. Kip is it possible to message us all on facebook when you post and update on here... Also for the new-comers this is the official group for the Bandits..

    http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...gid=7652622135

  52. #52
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Quote Originally Posted by kipfizh View Post
    Right, we're set to go. Turns out the holidaying manager must be a club manager (the Netherlands Antilles managerial post does not allow a shortlist), so VW Hemme in the Belgian Second Division have an absent manager. Ah well.

    I won't be holidaying the first season until tomorrow, so until then:

    1) Feel free to make any predictions you see fit to make.
    2) Let me know of any more pre-game analysis posts you want to see.
    How about a specific insight to a top club or a club who something significant has happened to. One every year.. For example track Man utd first season. see what happened to them... Then in 5 years time if Newcastle win champions league. Chart their success. Would only get going after the first couple of seasons.

    Also charting the regens would be good. how many each game come in. how good are they? predictions on what they'd do. Do they actually have personality programmed into them or is it random as random can be?

  53. #53
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Idiot GK will become the most intriguing character as the game goes through the season imo. I can already see a Rene Higuita esque character coming....

    Its also fairly safe to assume the Bandits will climb the divisions faster then the Sheriffs but they will both make the Premiership eventually.

    I hope there aren't any takeovers of either club as that might mess the experiment up a little but I wouldn't be totally suprised as they rise through the divisions.

  54. #54
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Quote Originally Posted by Vintage View Post
    Wow. i just got a message on facebook about it restarting.. I loved this last time. can't believe its been two years. I stopped reading once the players had retired then i re-found it again a couple of months later a re-read it all in one lecture haha.. Kip is it possible to message us all on facebook when you post and update on here... Also for the new-comers this is the official group for the Bandits..

    http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...gid=7652622135
    Messaging on every update will be a little bit like spam-mails even though it is informing something. I'll try and update the group as frequent as possible but I check CSE Forums once or more everyday whereas Facebook once a week or so. It's better to get used to reading every bit of the experiment, live every second of the experience.

  55. #55
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Good read!!!

  56. #56
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    mon Idiot GK having loads of Jens Lehmann-esque moments

  57. #57
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Quote Originally Posted by iacovone View Post
    Idiot GK will become the most intriguing character as the game goes through the season imo. I can already see a Rene Higuita esque character coming....
    Could come true - his eccentricity is set to 20.

  58. #58
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Its great to be here from the get-go this time, excellent opening post.

    I can see the Bandits from this version being almost the same as last time, losing the players early-ish, and losing their manager this time.
    Hopefully, the excellent chairman will help this time around.

    For a bit of fun, I predict the Sheriffs will win the race to the Premiership.

  59. #59
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Can't wait Only started reading towards the end of the 07 experiment so glad to be here from the start this time and good luck
    Whs.....was gutted to read about the untimely demise of your laptop and the end of the previous incarnation of the Bandits Kip....can't wait to see how things go for the Bandits mk II.

    I predict a first season promotion play-off battle between the Bandits and the Sherriffs, with the Bandits winning by a margin of at least 3 goals in both legs and at least 2 red cards for the Sherriffs (over the two legs).

    I also predict that none of the original Bandits will leave the club in the first 3 seasons and all the original Sherriffs will have moved on in the same amount of time.

  60. #60
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Woohoo!!!!

  61. #61
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Can't wait until this gets going again, loving it already

    Have the game adjusted the rep for the staff to account for their CA/PA? If not, they are pretty much stuck there until they get some success or get fired. If it was adjusted I think the managers will move on as well rather quickly.

    Won't be the first time you've heard or the last, but definately, KUTGW!!

  62. #62
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Quote Originally Posted by kipfizh View Post
    Could come true - his eccentricity is set to 20.
    Excellent

    Tendency to punch 20??

  63. #63
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    For what it is worth, my predictions are:

    Playing on full detail will mean the Bandits wipe the floor with everyone this season, and will win the league at a canter.

    The Sheriffs will also go up.

    There will be at least one red card per meeting between the two this season.

    After one summer, most players will leave, including all the idiots.

    The Sheriffs will reach the Premiership first.

  64. #64
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Quote Originally Posted by iacovone View Post
    Excellent

    Tendency to punch 20??
    Of course

  65. #65
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Quote Originally Posted by ZJ View Post
    Have the game adjusted the rep for the staff to account for their CA/PA? If not, they are pretty much stuck there until they get some success or get fired. If it was adjusted I think the managers will move on as well rather quickly.
    Surprisingly enough, no. The reputation of all the off field staff is 50 (which I believe is the in game minimum), which is paltry given their 200 CA. The players have a rating of nearly 7000, so it seems the managerial teams might stick together for a while.

  66. #66
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Quote Originally Posted by kipfizh View Post
    Surprisingly enough, no. The reputation of all the off field staff is 50 (which I believe is the in game minimum), which is paltry given their 200 CA. The players have a rating of nearly 7000, so it seems the managerial teams might stick together for a while.
    Now that's good news. At least we won't be worrying about the staff for some years. Hopefully the new and talented chairman will replace the leaving managers with good quality ones. And yea, from the editor you can set reputation to 50 at minimum. Never seen it drop below that till now.

  67. #67

    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Thanks for the Facebook message, can't wait to catch up with my all time favourite FM story!

  68. #68
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Wooo! Excited for this. Especially as I am here from the beginning rather than only stumbling across it in the 2060s like I did with the last one.

    My predictions.

    The Idiots will be taken in January.

    The Bandits will keep hold of all players for the first season, with the first choice players moving first followed by the rest later on.

    Bandits to have best short-term success, Sherrifs in the middle-term will catch up as they won't have as many players to replace, but the Bandits will get to the Premiership first.

    Long-term I think both will win at least something.

    Bring it on!

  69. #69
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Quote Originally Posted by kipfizh View Post
    For what it is worth, my predictions are:

    Playing on full detail will mean the Bandits wipe the floor with everyone this season, and will win the league at a canter.

    The Sheriffs will also go up.

    There will be at least one red card per meeting between the two this season.

    After one summer, most players will leave, including all the idiots.

    The Sheriffs will reach the Premiership first.
    I could see the Bandits cantering throught the lower leagues until the Championship, and the Sheriffs

    I would say at least three red cards in the two league matches plus some more in the inevitable cup matches they'd play.

    Also, the Bandits for the Premiership first

    Great to see this going again!

  70. #70
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    I joined a bit too late for the first version of this but I was really impressed and even more so with this version. I will be following with great interest and offering any advice along the way

  71. #71
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Bring ths on!


  72. #72
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    god bless 5sergio and facebook, seriously i complete forgot about this experiment

  73. #73
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Some predictions on the long term:

    1) The Bandits will be in the EPL within 15 years.
    2) The Sheriffs will be in the EPL within 20 years.
    3) All of the Bandits' will have a great international career, especially those who already play for small countries U19's like Holland and Portugal.
    4) All of the Idiots will leave the Sheriffs within 5 years.
    5) Both team managers will leave within, again, 5 years.
    6) Last but not least, Miller will leave the Sheriffs the first or second season and he eventually will have a great career at a Championship team or mid table EPL team.

  74. #74
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Thank goodness I subscribed to the old thread as I may of missed this.

    All the best with this Kipfizh.

    This experiment may be the best yet with more leagues and more compitions running on full detail.

    Maybe we'll see the Bandits (or Sheriffs) reach their full potential and win a major trophy?

  75. #75
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Thanks for the facebook message
    Can't wait should be good.

  76. #76
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Oh, yeah, Baby.

    Can't wait.

    Looks like quite the following from the get-go this time, Kip.

    'C'mon the Bandits!'

    'Sack the board, sack the board, sack the...' -- Old habits die hard.

  77. #77
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Good luck Kipfizh


    Is it too early to say that i support the Sheriffs?

    Im predicting that the Bandits will reach the Premiership, as for the Sheriffs, they can go both ways really. If the manager got a bad moment, the chairmen will replace him quickly, that can either be a blessing or the curse for Sheriffs. Also, im going to predict that at some point Belgium and/or Scotland will win the World Cup

  78. #78
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    I think the sherrifs will crash and burn within 5 years. Overspending and going into administration. points being taken away etc.

  79. #79
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    If my experiment (which admittedly is quite different) is anything to go by, the Bandits will enjoy comfortable success against the Sheriffs in direct head to head encounters. Initially, that is!
    Last edited by ian_1982; 16-03-2009 at 20:17.

  80. #80
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    May I just re-iterate how excited about the first update?!
    Just joined the Facebook group, woooo.

  81. #81
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Looking forward to this. I don't think I posted at all in the old thread, so it's good to be in here on the ground floor, so to speak.

    More idiots = more chaos.

  82. #82
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Quite impressive... this thread's been up, what, four hours now...

    80 replies already - this is going to be huge

    When do we get the first update?? (I know I sound greedy, but I guess we all are for this. Forgive me!)

  83. #83
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Cool! My second favourite thing on the internet is back!

  84. #84
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    I stumbled upon the first version when it was still on page 1 and didn't find it again until page 40 something, won't be making that mistake again I'm in from start to finish this time.

    Looking forward to the first update.

  85. #85
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    This has been promoted to my firefox bookmarks toolbar!

    My Predos:

    • The Bandits will reach the prem in 15 years.
    • The Sheriffs may struggle mid-pyramid for years, but eventually reach the prem
    • All the bandits will be gone by the next summer and possibly some in january.
    • Miller and the Idiots will last til the next summer.
    • Will be a long time 5+ years till we see a management change at the bandits.

  86. #86
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Alright, after quite a wait The Bandits v2 is here! Bring on the 1st update!

  87. #87
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Come on Bandits.

    Let's hope we win some serious trophies this time.

  88. #88
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Without a shadow of a doubt this is the most excited I've been since, since, since well, maybe ever (shhh. don't tell the wife!)

    Surely the Sheriff's will do the better of the two sides with so much talent having to be brought in at an appropriate CA and rep?

    Think it will all depend on those chairmen you know...

  89. #89
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Good to see this starting up again, I could never take the time to read through the hundreds of pages for the old topic; was waiting for the FM09 version.

  90. #90
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Good luck Kipfizh. Looking forward to reading this version

  91. #91
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Quote Originally Posted by 5ergio View Post
    Messaging on every update will be a little bit like spam-mails even though it is informing something. I'll try and update the group as frequent as possible but I check CSE Forums once or more everyday whereas Facebook once a week or so. It's better to get used to reading every bit of the experiment, live every second of the experience.
    Yeah but no more than the absolute ***** i get off other groups. bars/clubs etc... You could always send a message asking people if they'd object to an update message via facebook.

    My predictions for what its worth.

    There will be a manager change in the 3rd year. Not a sacking but Bandits manager will leave for Man Utd when SAF retires.

    Two straight promotions for Bandits. League two in 3rd year. from there on slow progression up the leagues. prem in 10-12 years.

    Sheriffs League two after four years. losing out on the play offs both times. because the idiots didn't perform. Won't reach premiership at all. or it'll take 20+ years.

    All players to have left by end of second season. Plus players who have the big nationality leagues as their second nationality will move to a big club in that league over top four in premiership. - if Spanish will end up playing for Real Madrid etc

    Bandits won't spend any money untill 5th season. Or any big money.

  92. #92
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    ^ oh and Sheriffs to go into administration.


    Also is there any chance Kip, Of the game to be up for download at the beginning of this for people to genuinely play through? If you think it'd discredit the experiment fair enough. But i thought i'd ask

  93. #93
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Awesome it's back! Can't wait for the updates already.

    Edit: I won't speculat much but I think the sugar daddy will be the deciding factor between the Sheriffs and the Bandits after the original players leave.
    Last edited by Netm; 16-03-2009 at 22:38.

  94. #94
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    fwiw I wouldn't want an e-mail from facebook each time Kipfizh posts an update, I'm more than capable of finding this thread if I want to read it and anyone who's interested in this thread will be able to as well. As the 80+ responses this thread already received today proves.

    Gutted about your computer crashing but happy that the 09 experiment is finally on track, thanks again for the numerous hours of enjoyment you've provided me through the original experiment and I'm already looking forward to this one running full speed.

    Predictions
    - Bandits to go undefeated in their first season, scoring at least 3 goals per game on average, winning the small league cup (st Johnston trophy or something) and knocking out at least 3 teams from higher divisions in their first 2 FA Cup participations.
    - Sheriffs to finish 2nd and go up through the playoffs.
    - Bandits will gain at least 2 promotions in 3 years, get to the Championship in 8 years and the EPL in around 12 years.
    - Sheriffs will get to the EPL at least 3 years after the Bandits.
    - At least 20 starlets gone within 2 seasons (maybe the GK will stay longer) and all the idiots to leave after a maximum of one full season with the Sheriffs.
    - Sheriffs manager will get sacked during the second season while the Bandits' will leave to go to a bigger club within 5 years.
    - We won't see both Bandits and Sheriffs in Europe until at least 20 years down the line, maybe one or the other but not both.
    - France to win the WC 2010, not only in this experiment but also in real life

    Finally I have a quick question, do you know if the players who chose to represent their other nationality's youth teams can still change back before they get their first "real" cap or is it already decided?

  95. #95
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Just one thing kip - if you won't be around for a while, post or else the place will go into meltdown

    Seriously though, great to see the 09 experiment kicking off. For what it's worth, I reckon that this experiment will turn out to be quite similar to the FM07 one - I reckon the players, manager and coaches will be off reasonably quickly - although the board certainly could make a difference. Let's just hope that the board takeovers don't result in the Bandits having a completely hopeless team of players and staff after 2 years.

  96. #96
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Just checked the old 07 thread, new link to here has made my day.

    The Bandits are Dead, Long Live the Bandits.

    EPL title in 12 years, for which team - there's the question.

    wazz

  97. #97
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    This new version of the experiment looks very promising, i like the extra additions. Would be good to see a few screenshots of maybe the club info pages, some players etc when you get a chance.

  98. #98
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    Bandits manager will leave for Sheriffs at the end of first season.

  99. #99
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    fantastic to see this up and running again. Can't wait to see the differences between 07 and 09

  100. #100
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    Default Re: AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

    This experiment looks awesome.

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