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Thread: Co-ownership spending

  1. #1
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    Default Co-ownership spending

    I'm playing in Italy for the first time and the money dished out for co-ownership deals seems massively out of proportion with other transfer spends. The big clubs are spending upwards of £15m to own 50% of reasonably promising youngsters which they are then allowing to continue to play for their current team. Surely these fees are excessive, or are they in line with real life? I can't find any data on this on the internet.

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    I noticed this too. Seems a lot of money spent by Italian clubs to co-own players. Maybe its what they are doing in Italy now as the foreigner rule over there is different than most of Europe.

    Can anyone enlighten us with real life information?

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    I've noticed it. Very large fees for just 50%.

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    I own Balottelli at Parma in season 4, Milan have just bid £39m to co own him. He's valued at £25m, this is just daft. I'd consider selling him for that, never mind just half of him.

    I've had loads of offers like this. It's making Italy a bit unrealistic.

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Ruining my game really, all my potential competitors are wasting their money, I'm 10 points clear in February...

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy Paving View Post
    I own Balottelli at Parma in season 4, Milan have just bid £39m to co own him. He's valued at £25m, this is just daft. I'd consider selling him for that, never mind just half of him.

    I've had loads of offers like this. It's making Italy a bit unrealistic.
    So what are the rules here? If you did sell 50% of him to Milan, who would he play for? Do you keep him and give 50% to Milan if you sell him, or does he do a Beckham and flit between 2 clubs?

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    This seems like a new topic that has not come to my eyes before, i have always been fasicanated by co-onwnership as not many teams seems to do it in the major clubs or do they? I really do not know. But this seems a bit bad that it is ruining the game

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Quote Originally Posted by phnompenhandy View Post
    So what are the rules here? If you did sell 50% of him to Milan, who would he play for? Do you keep him and give 50% to Milan if you sell him, or does he do a Beckham and flit between 2 clubs?
    I believe it will mean he stays at the club (depends on what the offer says to be honest) and when this specificed time scale is up, he is secret auctioned between the 2 clubs who owns him outright

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Auctioned? Madness! Fatboy - I think only Italy has this system.

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    I've always wondered how the Co-ownership thing worked...

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Guys this is unfortunately a 9.3 patch bug. It makes playing in Italy utterly stupid. In my first 9.3 january window, ALL I repeat EVERY SINGLE transfer between two italian clubs is a co-ownership. foreign transfers are fine, but for some reason transfers between italian teams are broken. the AI only wants to pay almost the full value of the italian players to get 50% and lets them stay in their old team.
    This was the reason for me for stopping to play FM 09, because as it is the last patch it won't be fixed.
    And for me it is simply game breaking. I was totally happy with 9.3 until I figured that out.
    I didn't play on so I don't know how it will evolve. But to be honest, a january transfer window with about 35 co-own transfers which however didn't even change teams, that's enough. It's obviously a huge bug-

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Yer do not MIlan and Parma in Italy? I am now confused. And by the way that secret auction thing, i always used to bet £1k and win lol. Or his valuation + 1k to ensure victory.

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Raniel - why not re-patch to 9.2.0 and carry on? I do feel your pain tho'.

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Quote Originally Posted by phnompenhandy View Post
    Raniel - why not re-patch to 9.2.0 and carry on? I do feel your pain tho'.
    Once you have saved on 9.3.0 you cannot continue that save on 9.2.0.

    SI, many of us want to be able to play long-term games. If a 9.3.1 could patch this and any other minor problems that have arisen, even in just a 3 MB patch or something, could you please consider it? I know it doesn't "look good" to do four patches instead of the usual three, but it's surely a quick fix.

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Looking at the summer transfer window that just ended in my Roma game in 2010 and the, at least, top dozen or so transfers between Italian teams are full transfer, the most expensive co-ownership is 10.25m.

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    In fact there are only three co-ownership deals over 1m the whole summer.

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Awwwww damn, just started a new Juve save and got really into it.

    If this is a bug I'll just stop playing FM09 all together.

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    SI, no response?

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    I didn't have such problems, but I do think the way co-ownerships work should be changed in time for FM10. And I think they worked very well in FM08.

    1) Co-ownerships are useful for smaller teams who want to buy a youngster from a bigger team but they can't afford to buy his full price, and for bigger teams who want to make some money with their youngsters. It's a win-win situation: if the player turns out to be a good one, the bigger team can buy him back; of course they'll lose money, but it can be considered a "thank-you gift" to the smaller team for developing the player. RL example: Adriano, bought by Inter, co-owned by Parma, bought back by Inter. If the player isn't a good one, the smaller team can buy the remaining 50% for 1000 € or so...

    2) The chance that a bigger team co-owns a player from a smaller team is pretty rare, and it can be compared to a "first option": the guy has potential, but he's too young (or we are already covered in that position) so let's buy 50% of him before someone else does and leave him to the club where he plays now. If he is really so good, we can buy the remaining 50% without problems, otherwise, we lost some money, no big deal. Well, there are actually some problems...: RL example: Chiellini played for Livorno and was co-owned by Roma, who were so silly to let the world know that they we were going to bid around 3M € for his 50% (there his a reason why the secret auction is SECRET...). During the auction, Livorno made an higher bid (3,5M?), so they won the player and then they sold him to Juventus.

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Please don't hijack this thread for debating the real-life logic of co-ownerships. The point of the thread is to discuss a possible bug that has arisen with them either in 9.3.0 or a previous patch.

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    The co-ownership is buged in FM 2009.The amount of co-ownerships is fine but the fee's are huge.I'm Milan and Inter just offerd me 60 mil for 50% of Kaka and they let me have him for 2 years!!

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Quote Originally Posted by crafty bison View Post
    Please don't hijack this thread for debating the real-life logic of co-ownerships. The point of the thread is to discuss a possible bug that has arisen with them either in 9.3.0 or a previous patch.
    i thought it was a good point. The game reflects real life so he was just saying what happens in real life that should be reflected in the game. Quite handy for the likes of us who dont know much about co-ownerships, it gives us a better view on what it really should be in the game ;)

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    I've just noticed this co-ownership bug too with sky high fees being paid just to own 50% of a player.

    In addition to that - i've noticed something that makes even less sense. Juventus bought 50% of Marek Hamsik from Napoli for £17.75m but then just a few weeks later Fiorentina bought him outright for an overall fee of £18m meaning Juve got £9m and Napoli £9m.

    Juve have then lost £8.75m on a player that they basically never had!!!

    Definitely a game breaking bug for those that play in Italy and even for those who like me dont actually play there but still run it as a playable league.

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    I think I'm correct in saying it's on the changelist for 9.3.

    Anybody running the new patch noticed if AI managers in Italy are still buying co-ownerships??

    EDIT: yeah, list says 'AI managers not doing co-ownerships'.
    Last edited by NotWordsButDeeds; 13-03-2009 at 15:09.

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    From the changelist for the latest patch;

    - Stopped low Co-Ownership bids from being accepted incorrectly in Italy.
    This could have something to do with the massive co-ownership bids. Somehow they screwed up that fix and it created this bug.

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Yes, it´s a bug.

    I went on holyday the 1st season and Inter bought Kuzmanovic from Fiorentina for 16,5M CO and 1 month later he was sold to Juventus for 15,5M, Inter got 7,75M and Fiorentina another 7,75M.

    Fiorentina in 1 month got 16,5M from Inter + 7,75M from Juventus and Inter lost 8,75M.

    Also, Fiorentina bought Rosina CO for 3,6M from Torino with a buyout clause of 7,75M. 1 year later Torino bought the 50% they sold to Fiorentina for 7,75M.

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    I have some big decisions to make about my current save...

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Quote Originally Posted by crafty bison View Post
    I have some big decisions to make about my current save...
    Are you on 9.3 Crafty??

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    I started on 9.2.0 but patched to 9.3.0 mid-game. The high spending on co-ownerships has only arisen since patching.

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    That's VERY strange mate because the change list says categorically that AI controlled teams are not doing any co-ownerships (between each other). Also that they will reject co-ownership bids which are too low from human players. I hope you get to the bottom of it because I like an Italian game too.

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    That's VERY strange mate because the change list says categorically that AI controlled teams are not doing any co-ownerships (between each other).
    I think that was happening pre-9.3.0, the fix was making it so SI teams did it more regularly.

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Its definitely since the 9.3.0 patch. I hope SI release a quickie patch.

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    They probably won't, which really irritates me, mainly because I suspect it's solely for PR reasons.

    9.3.1 please...?

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    I posted this in the bugs forum under specific leagues problems. http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=111616

    Lets hope we can find a solution or that SI release a patch.

    Is everyone who is having this problem using the patch for an existing saved game? or new game with new patch?

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Ridiculous.

    All transfers between Italian clubs are CO deals. SI can't do their jobs properly, it's disgusting.

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Quote Originally Posted by crafty bison View Post
    I have some big decisions to make about my current save...
    Reverting to 9.2 for the loss (game engine isn't as good, plus there is the Spanish bug).

    Even if I stop managing in Italy, these CO deals will keep happening.

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    I didn't mean reverting. The three options for me are: carry on regardless; move to a club in a different country; or start a new game. I'm carrying on for now, but I can't see it being a long-term game with this bug

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Quote Originally Posted by Candre168 View Post
    Ridiculous.

    All transfers between Italian clubs are CO deals. SI can't do their jobs properly, it's disgusting.
    Normally I'd say that's going a bit far, but considering that two of the three biggest leagues in Europe have been screwed throughout every single patch, I have to agree on this occasion. Its certainly made me think twice about buying FM10.

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Quote Originally Posted by crafty bison View Post
    I didn't mean reverting. The three options for me are: carry on regardless; move to a club in a different country; or start a new game. I'm carrying on for now, but I can't see it being a long-term game with this bug
    The co-ownership deals will keep happening in Italy regardless of whether you manage there or not. At least the money stays in Italy.

    Do you agree with this, or better to just move?

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    What I mean is that my competitors (Juventus, Roma, Milan) - who are already streets behind me, which makes things a bit boring - are throwing away their money and removing the challenge. In Spain I wouldn't have this problem.

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    as crafty_bison said ^^^

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Just checked my transfers for a season i'm doing in 2013/14 in Italy, only co-ownership stuff im seeing is big clubs buying 50% of small players, looks very realistic to me.. I hoipe it doesn't start happening

    for the record, this is a game initially started in 9.2 and now im patched to 9.3

    would be so annoyed if i notice this game breaking bug as I play in Italian league way more than any other

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Quote Originally Posted by david22 View Post
    Just checked my transfers for a season i'm doing in 2013/14 in Italy, only co-ownership stuff im seeing is big clubs buying 50% of small players, looks very realistic to me.. I hoipe it doesn't start happening

    for the record, this is a game initially started in 9.2 and now im patched to 9.3

    would be so annoyed if i notice this game breaking bug as I play in Italian league way more than any other
    Let us know if it does change for you David. I like Serie A the most although I'm in England at the moment, and if it does change for the worst I'll revert to 9.2.

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    It could be that for some reason the bug only appears in 9.3 started games. I had one 9.2 game which I continued two weeks with 9.3 and I had no strange co-own deals. Only with the one I started at 9.3.

    Ah and there are indeed rare (in January 2009 I had exactly ONE in Serie A) non-co-own transfers between italian teams, however only for old players. every young one will be bought by co-own, and NONE of them has changed the team. In real life, almost all co-own transfers in italy have also the players change clubs. It makes really no sense that all teams, regardless if Inter or Juve or someone with much less money, spends all their budget on buying players 50% without transfering them. Not to forget the fact that they sell the player ONE WEEK LATER for less money than they initially payed...
    For example Milan bought 50% of Antonio Cassano for 20 million €, but he will play at Sampdoria for the next two years.
    He is now 27 and will be 29 when Milan will have the chance to get him...

    Unfortunately I'm pretty sure SI won't get another patch out for that bug, they haven't even responded yet...
    Hard to say but that's the first time I can't play an FM after it's last patch. I'm really disappointed
    Last edited by Raniel3; 18-03-2009 at 12:17.

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Raniel3, I don't think you're right - I started on 9.2.

    I've just seen Lubos Kalouda have one good season at Atalanta before Milan - who are in dire crisis and desperate need of players NOW - pay £14.25m for 50% of him and leave him at Atalanta. Grr.

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending


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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    I wish I could get money like that for some of my players

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    The example above is a typical situation in my game with co-ownership. I continuously see 50% deals over 15million. No official word yet on this yet it seems to be happening with more frequency.

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    He isn't my player. I've never actually received an offer like that; has anybody else, or do we think it's just AI-to-AI?

    Anyway, to continue the story, just days after Roma bought 50% for £29,000,000...



    and


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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Might as well follow this through to give those who have not experienced this bug a taste of how it goes.

    So days after holding out for £29,000,000 for the first 50% of Inler, Udinese are happy to sell the second half on the cheap...



    Let's see what Roma have to say. To recap, Roma paid £29,000,000 for 50% of Inler, and two days later were offered £10.6m by Juventus for that same 50%.

  51. #51
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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    What a surprise, £10.5m is absolutely fine for Roma. So in under a week they have thrown away £18.5m by buying 50% of a player (who wouldn't be able to play for them) and then selling that share for a much smaller sum.




    This happens time and time again in Serie A. This is ruining the game.

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    I've been thinking about this overnight and I think this actually exposes two distinct, though related, problems.

    Problem 1 is a straightforward bug: Italian clubs are bidding for co-ownerships as if they were bidding for full transfers, and paying accordingly.

    Problem 2 has been in the game for longer, and is that Italian clubs who own 50% of a player, and receive a bid for that 50%, aren't correctly judging the value of that 50% - i.e., they aren't asking for enough money.

    This is exemplified above. First, Roma pay £29m for Gokhan Inler - a reasonable sum if they were buying the player, but in fact it's only 50%. But then, Roma receive a bid of £10.6m for that 50% only 2 days later, and they accept it, because they are incapable of correctly valuing the 50% that they own.

    Thoughts?

  53. #53
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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    This is a game breaker for whom play in Italian leagues, it should be fixed with a patch.

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    it indeed should be fixed. and not only are the fees unrealistic, but you can directly sign the full ownership again for 1/3 of what they paid you. ex:inter co-own my player 9.75M and then i buy the other 50% for just 3.7M

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    can't it be 'fixed' by using in-game editor?

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Quote Originally Posted by Romanista. View Post
    it indeed should be fixed. and not only are the fees unrealistic, but you can directly sign the full ownership again for 1/3 of what they paid you. ex:inter co-own my player 9.75M and then i buy the other 50% for just 3.7M
    I did that on one occassion just to see if I could. Then I decided not to do it again to preserve the game.

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    I know it's not the point, but it was completely the other way on 9.2.0. I couldn't buy Hamsik for 25M, but then had an 8.5M bid accepted for half of him. I bid 8.5M for the other half the next day and got him for 17M despite bids of 25M+ being accepted. I tested this and had bids accepted for Kaka, Pirlo and Pato, so I think it was a bug that they were trying to get rid of and overshot somewhat.

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    The question has to be asked, has anyone from SI commented on this issue?

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitja View Post
    can't it be 'fixed' by using in-game editor?
    How do you suggest doing that?

    I tried lowering players' reputations once the bids came in, but that was too late, clubs don't pull out of deals. I considered trying moving the player to be 'fully' at the new club (e.g. trying to put Inler at Roma after they'd paid £29m for him) but it crashed the game as it thought he was on loan from Roma to Roma or something like that. The only fix that would work would simply be transferring the money back to the overpaying club as best as one can, but that would be incredibly laborious and difficult to account for each time.

    A quickie patch can't be that difficult, they need to fix this aspect of the transfer module for FM10 anyway so once it's fixed surely they could put 9.3.1 out.

    I have PMd Paul Collyer to alert him to this thread, and he has told me he passed it on to "QA".

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Hi,

    We are aware of the imperfections in the Italian co-ownership market and these issues are already under review.

    Cheers.

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Quote Originally Posted by Stu Coleman View Post
    these issues are already under review.
    Stu, does this mean under review for FM10 or a patch before then?

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Quote Originally Posted by Kain View Post
    Normally I'd say that's going a bit far, but considering that two of the three biggest leagues in Europe have been screwed throughout every single patch, I have to agree on this occasion. Its certainly made me think twice about buying FM10.
    I'm sick of these type of errors.

    Last year was the registration bug that affected Spain, corrected only in February. Now this? C'mon, if this was in England the patch was already out.

    I'm not thinking twice, i'm thinking 10 times if i will buy this game next year.

    No excuse for this bug, when this was reported i started a new game and went on holiday half season. Guess what? In January transfer window the italian clubs were already spending like crazy.

    It only took 10 minutes to discover this.....

  63. #63
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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Quote Originally Posted by NotWordsButDeeds View Post
    Stu, does this mean under review for FM10 or a patch before then?
    I wouldn,t hold your breath hoping for a fix,I know Im not Still,only 7 mths or so till FM10 ships with a whole load of new(and no doubt plenty of current)bugs for US to discover.

  64. #64
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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    I noticed this tonight when Inter bid 50million for 50% of De Rossi, it's just stupid beyond belief.

  65. #65
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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Quote Originally Posted by Candre168 View Post
    Awwwww damn, just started a new Juve save and got really into it.

    If this is a bug I'll just stop playing FM09 all together.
    that'd be over-reacting, given that there are other leagues, not just Italy-1 issue in 1 league doesnt mean you should stop playing the game completely

  66. #66
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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    No, but a lot of us have invested time in saves based in Italy, a quick-fix patch would be a nice gesture.

  67. #67
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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Don't hope for another patch, mates.


    SI will likely released another patch. They need your quids for next patch in the name of FM10.


    So, let's pretend it is not a bug, like the no face regen thing.

  68. #68
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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Loading an old save I have, where I'm in July 2013 on patch 9.2, I looked back at Serie A transfers for the whole game.

    Only 3 co-ownerships were above £1million, the largest being only £2.4m.

    Maybe those of us wanting to play in Italy will have to revert to 9.2??

  69. #69
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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Really no patch for this? I didn't even know about that old co-ownership bug but i'd rather have that + not exploit it than see my only career game of fm09 be destroyed if I continue on with this

  70. #70
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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    And i'm never reverting back to patch 9.2 with that horrific match engine, I never want to see it again.. this sucks so much

  71. #71
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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    i see your point but like...39million isnt selling a player on the cheap plus i tink the logic behind it is say in my league lazio want 40million for a player russo...Inter bid 24million to co-own him as well as juve and then they would pay the rest when they can or when they need him and hes good enough havent had that situation on my game cos lazio keep rejecting it seems pretti normal in mine and im running 9.0.3

  72. #72
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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Please type in proper sentences, I can't understand the point you are making.

  73. #73
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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Like me, he doesn't seem to be experiencing this problem in his game (yet, possibly.) Although SI have confirmed it does seem to be an issue. I'll happily continue along not having it, though.

  74. #74
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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Guys if you look at the transfers after the summer window 2009, you will clearly see the following:

    1. There are too many Co-ownerships and too little "normal" transfers between italian teams. IRL there aren't that many co-ownership transfers, just because it is easier and more economic to loan players. There are maybe 10 co-ownership transfers every year in Serie A. In FM there are 20-40 every window. It seems like italian teams in FM rather do co-ownership with italian teams and buy the real players from foreign countries. to be fair there are some normal transfers, but they are minority instead of majority.

    2. The teams buy the "wrong" players for co-ownership. In contrary to FM or even what FM-games might think, co-ownerships IRL in Italy aren't done to "test" young players, no way. It is too risky for both sides, as either one team pays for a player who doesn't become a good player, or the other team receives too little money for 50% of a promising player. And a seriosly working society doesn't like to do auctions after all.
    So in real life these co-ownership transfers are almost every time done with 23-27 year old players, who didn't play that good for their team but still seem to have the potential. So the team sells 50% of the player and let's him try his luck in another team, however they still have the chance to call him back if he does well. It's like loaning out, only a bit more "I'm not sure he will be good, but I don't want to sell him completely now".
    And the most important fact: IRL Co-owned players ALWAYS change teams. there are almost no co-ownership deals where the player remains at his club, however in FM it is almost every deal.

    3. The teams pay TOO MUCH for Co-owning players (and not having them change teams!). IIRC correctly there has never been a co-ownership-deal above 5 million in italy, pretty sure never above 10 million at least. Teams just won't spend all their money on having 50% of a player.

    4. The thing with buying 50% of a player for 30 million and then selling for 10 million one week later. Just stupid. Or another example: Napoli sell 50% of Hamsik to Inter for 15 million... 6 months later they buy the 50% back for 30 million...


    So after all it is really ruining a game in Italy. The transfermarket is just bugged, the teams aren't reinforcing, they just spend too much money on co-owning players. It really makes no sense doing an Italy game

  75. #75
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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Thank you for the real-life clarifications Raniel3. It seems this part of the transfer system needs an overhaul.

  76. #76
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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    http://community.sigames.com/showthr...77#post2930277

    Hello, I'm the italian betatester head assistant and my goal is to point out to SI what can be improved in the italian part of the game.

    Thanks to all who have contributed to write here what should be done to improve the italian coownership system.

    To do a realistic transfer system for a game it is really a difficult thing. Adds coownership to it and everything will blow up.

    Many of the suggestion in this thread will be pointed out to SI for a review.

    1. There are too many Co-ownerships and too little "normal" transfers between italian teams. IRL there aren't that many co-ownership transfers, just because it is easier and more economic to loan players. There are maybe 10 co-ownership transfers every year in Serie A. In FM there are 20-40 every window. It seems like italian teams in FM rather do co-ownership with italian teams and buy the real players from foreign countries. to be fair there are some normal transfers, but they are minority instead of majority.
    Game starts with more than 200 players in coownership beetween italian teams. Cause there are 20 teams in Serie A, 22 Teams in Serie B, 18 teams for every Lega Pro Group (5 groups), there are a total of 132 teams. This means that, in average, at least one coownership deal for a team is done in reality.

    In FM2009 patch 9.0.3 I have not seen more than 70 coownership deals done for year (two transfer windows) so I think we are not out from real statistics.

    2. The teams buy the "wrong" players for co-ownership. In contrary to FM or even what FM-games might think, co-ownerships IRL in Italy aren't done to "test" young players, no way. It is too risky for both sides, as either one team pays for a player who doesn't become a good player, or the other team receives too little money for 50% of a promising player. And a seriosly working society doesn't like to do auctions after all.
    So in real life these co-ownership transfers are almost every time done with 23-27 year old players, who didn't play that good for their team but still seem to have the potential. So the team sells 50% of the player and let's him try his luck in another team, however they still have the chance to call him back if he does well. It's like loaning out, only a bit more "I'm not sure he will be good, but I don't want to sell him completely now".
    And the most important fact: IRL Co-owned players ALWAYS change teams. there are almost no co-ownership deals where the player remains at his club, however in FM it is almost every deal.
    You are partially right, but you forget that many coownership deals are done as "part exchange" deals (for example team A sells a great player to Team B, B team pays it with money + the coownership of one two of their more promising players). Unfortunately this is not supported in FM and I don't think will be in the neat future.


    3. The teams pay TOO MUCH for Co-owning players (and not having them change teams!). IIRC correctly there has never been a co-ownership-deal above 5 million in italy, pretty sure never above 10 million at least. Teams just won't spend all their money on having 50% of a player.
    This is absolutely true. I don't think a coownership can be paid more than 2mln, but I will discuss it in the near future with my italian forum. This should really sorted out for FM2010.

    4. The thing with buying 50% of a player for 30 million and then selling for 10 million one week later. Just stupid. Or another example: Napoli sell 50% of Hamsik to Inter for 15 million... 6 months later they buy the 50% back for 30 million...
    This is caused by a bug. Future fee offer should not be applied to secret offer. As for now AI tends to bid for the Future Fee Callback Cause, both teams bid equals and the player remain on the same team. This should be really sorted for FM2010.

    Other things that should be good sorting out should be the buy of only half of an already coowned player and the coownership loan.

    Unfortunately this system is really complex to understand and implement.
    Last edited by GanRob; 22-03-2009 at 19:27.

  77. #77
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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    This bug is crazy. The only positive is it basically redistributes wealth in the Serie A, but when the top teams are essentially spending their entire budget on nothing each season it isn't exactly a challenge to play in Italy.

    Inter bought half of Kaka in my game for £81m. Haven't got a clue what will happen when this is up but I can't see AC Milan losing him as Inter's finances are now "ok".

    Rosina got halfway to Florence for £15m before Fiorentina and Torino then accepted a £5.5m each way bid from Juve. Nice.

    Udinese lost countless players (Zapata, Inler, Quagliarella) for about £30m a half, then moved them on for an additional £10m each for the remaining half. Glancing at the editor yesterday their bank balance was about £130m and budget about £110m. They will probably buy half of Pato for all of that next time a transfer window opens.

  78. #78
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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Just seen Inter spend 18mil on half a promising regen player then sell the same half days later for 8mil to Bayern Munich

    seriously messed up, I can bare little bugs but this is too much

  79. #79
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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    if SI cant fix this just release an optional patch with NO co-ownership whatsoever.

    should make most ppl happy cos keeps the game challenging.

  80. #80
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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    lol in one game i saw Inter pay 30.5 million euro for a co-ownership of Pandev

    then 3 days later Chelsea bought Pandev for a total of 15 million Euro, 7.5 million to both teams

  81. #81
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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Is there anyway you can stop co-ownership via the Editor?

    I've never used it myself some I'm totally clueless when it comes to editing but if the option is there can someone tell me how to do it?

  82. #82
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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    I don't have this issue, did you lot patch and continue a game or start a new game?

  83. #83
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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    I've not played in Italy on FM2009, but on my game which is now in 2015, Serie A seems to be far closer than other leagues. E.g. in Spain Barcelona and Real Madrid are still the best sides, Bayern are top in Germany, Arsenal dominate in England, but in Italy Milan and Inter are currently struggling, while the likes of Napoli and Genoa have consolidated themselves as top teams. This is probably down to this bug. I do recall seeing a ridiculous co-ownership deal once where someone lost a fortune on a player.

    I can see it being easy to dominate long term in Italy.

  84. #84
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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Quote Originally Posted by GanRob View Post
    This is absolutely true. I don't think a coownership can be paid more than 2mln, but I will discuss it in the near future with my italian forum. This should really sorted out for FM2010.
    That's not true though, even if it's too extreme in FM now. Right now Motta is on loan at Roma who will buy half his contract for 3.5mln because of an agreed fee. Three years ago Roma signed half of Pizarro for 6 mln, etcetera.

  85. #85
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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Its already been posted by an SI games employee that there will be NO further patches for FM09 as they have started on the next version.

  86. #86
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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Yes, in fact they stated it directly in the equivalent thread to this one in the bugs forum, which has prompted uproar from a few of us

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Crafty, I've went back to 9.2 - the situation on 9.3 is absolutely terrible. I just holidayed a year and the biggest c/o deals were £2.5m and £1.1m; the rest were under £1m

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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    9.20 is dumb too in that you can get ibrahimovic/de rossi/zapata real cheap.

    they should have just scrapped co-ownership.

  89. #89
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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron_AO View Post
    9.20 is dumb too in that you can get ibrahimovic/de rossi/zapata real cheap.

    they should have just scrapped co-ownership.
    Only if you want to exploit it. Not much fun in that.

  90. #90
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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    I'm going back to my Southampton save

  91. #91
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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Do we have 100 % confirmation that there's no patch/fix coming for this? Someone need to start an online petition or something to get SI to listen.

  92. #92
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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Agreed. As bugs go, this is a pretty big one. As far as I'm concerned it not only makes Italy unplayable, but harms the realism of any game in which Italy is enabled. The borked finances of the italian clubs mean they will be much weaker players in the international transfer market, and will be much weaker opponents in european competition over the long term. The advantage of simulating the league if you are not actually playing there - increased realism - is not only absent, the opposite is the case.

    A game with Italy enabled is less realistic and ultimately less enjoyable due to this bug. I suspect that the majority of FM players have Serie A enabled. This is hardly a small-time issue.

  93. #93
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    Default Re: Co-ownership spending

    Yes i always enable italy spain and england. I must admit since i got thwe game i havnt played in italy although i almost inevitably will sonner or later, and its a worrying bug, i wont be as extreme as some people and possibly not buy the game, although it is slightly frustrating to see an extremely experianced company such as SI constantly releasing buggy games, i mean they aren't EA are they??

    As regards to the but, 5 years into my games, and inter keep bidding £45M to co-own Vela from roma, the only save is that roma keep rejecting the offer.

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