Why did Football Manager change its name from Championship Manager?

[Pavel Pogrebnyak]

I realize it was some legal issue resulting in the game makers jumping ship, but what exactly led to this mutiny ?

[Mike7077]

Because Sports Interactive split with Eidos. Eidos kept the rights to the name Championship Manager, while SI kept the right to the database.

[jod123]

The publishers Eidos and the creators SI both wanted to take the game in a different direction so they decided to split with SI keeping the actual game i.e. the code, database and so on while Eidos kept the name. So SI teamed up with Sega to continue the series as Football Manager and Eidos teamed up with Beautiful Game Studios to create the new Championship Manager. That is what I think happened anyway.

[reillyg]

Because Sports Interactive split with Eidos. Eidos kept the rights to the name Championship Manager, while SI kept the right to the database.

What do the rights to the database involve?

[Pavel Pogrebnyak]

I heard Ray Houghton started all the trouble

[jod123]

What do the rights to the database involve?

It means Eidos and BGS had to create the CM game from scratch while SI continued on with the database of players and staff they already had compiled.

[DanP123]

I play CM and i enjoy it. Saying that ive never played any fm game. sorry. was going to try out 09 but then heard about the activation and decided to wait til April for CM09.

Anyway, do you ever think that the two games will merge into one? Im saying this because could you imagine the two games made into one? It would be insane

[WeeScotsPaul]

I play CM and i enjoy it. Saying that ive never played any fm game. sorry. was going to try out 09 but then heard about the activation and decided to wait til April for CM09.

Anyway, do you ever think that the two games will merge into one? Im saying this because could you imagine the two games made into one? It would be insane

I don't like that idea. CM, since the split, has diverged into an abomination compared to the FM offerings. SI always did and probably always will make the better game. Sorry if I sound a bit like a fanboy, but it's true. Yes, it has bugs, but what program doesn't? FM for me everytime. Eidos use the name to try and sell more copies to people who don't know better. If more people realised that CM for the last few years is NOT the same game as before, then FM would go into orbit and every other management game would sink without a trace. I know so many people who hang onto the name, and profess it as the best thing ever, when it's clearly not. Education, education, education!

[Cityull]

I play CM and i enjoy it. Saying that ive never played any fm game. sorry. was going to try out 09 but then heard about the activation and decided to wait til April for CM09.

Anyway, do you ever think that the two games will merge into one? Im saying this because could you imagine the two games made into one? It would be insane

You want them to get back together and make one game?

[oTRUTHo]

there's a guy called steven screch who made the the player manager series & the last i heard was champ man joined up with him.

player manager was brillant & the 3d match engine back then was WAY better than si's currant engine. if champ man is sitll with him then id bet that the new champ man is going to be way better than this seasons fm.

ps: has anyone watched the champ man 3d match on ytube it looks brillant & ill def be giveing it a go.

[jod123]

there's a guy called steven screch who made the the player manager series & the last i heard was champ man joined up with him.

player manager was brillant & the 3d match engine back then was WAY better than si's currant engine. if champ man is sitll with him then id bet that the new champ man is going to be way better than this seasons fm.

ps: has anyone watched the champ man 3d match on ytube it looks brillant & ill def be giveing it a go.

When you say "3d match engine" do you mean the graphics i.e. how it looks?

[oTRUTHo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeN046AHrtg

[Mike7077]

You can hardly make anything out from that. Far too blurry.

From what I can see there (which isn't much), it does look quite good.

[jod123]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeN046AHrtg

I saw that before. I meant you said Player manager had a better 3d match engine than FM currently has.

Are you judging that on just graphics?

Anyway, that short clip of CM 3d match engine does not look any better than the one in FM in my opinion.

[Sociopath]

The 3D gfx on CM is probably what is killing Champ Man. They need to stick to basics for the match engine and concentrate instead on submersive gameplay like SI have done over the years (remember the warning on CM4 posters?). The 3D on FM is damn good considering it is a first time shot on a public release but personally I had my doubts about it and it in the end has come good!

In the end the gfx is not what makes the game, it is the player and the gameplay that makes the game.

[Mike7077]

As I've stated in other threads, my main issue with 3D on FM09 is all the mistakes. Everything that happens seems to be the result of an error somewhere, and players are constantly making mistakes.

[jod123]

As I've stated in other threads, my main issue with 3D on FM09 is all the mistakes. Everything that happens seems to be the result of an error somewhere, and players are constantly making mistakes.

Yeah and you only get to see that based on using it yourself. Seeing a short clip of it like above for CM would not tell you that so they both look similar to me "from the distance".

[oTRUTHo]

these are the only images i found.


& yes looking at the picture here dosnt show u mutch but the match engine & 3d were brillant & definatly better than si's.

[jod123]

these are the only images i found.


& yes looking at the picture here dosnt show u mutch but the match engine & 3d were brillant & definatly better than si's.

I don't think you get what I mean. The "match engine" is not the graphics or how it looks or the animations in the game. It is how realistic the game generates results. So you are saying that Player Manager did that better than FM does?

Also looking at the picture the graphics don't look as good as FM either, not that I would expect them to be as that is much older and it obviously was just a PS1 game.

[Mike7077]

I don't think you get what I mean.

That is a feature of dealings with oTRUTHo.

[small Mac]

I remember borrowing this game from a mate back in the day. But didn't play it for long as CM 99/00 was much more enjoyable even without any match graphics.

[oTRUTHo]

I don't think you get what I mean. The "match engine" is not the graphics or how it looks or the animations in the game. It is how realistic the game generates results. So you are saying that Player Manager did that better than FM does?

Also looking at the picture the graphics don't look as good as FM either, not that I would expect them to be as that is much older and it obviously was just a PS1 game.

yeh, im sayin the match engine & the 3d match played well together with real results.

you wouldnt get the goal keeper just standing there with the ball while a striker runs at him from the half way line & then score a goal.

the match seened to play from the 3d engine where as si's 3d plays from there match enging.

[jod123]

yeh, im sayin the match engine & the 3d match played well together with real results.

you wouldnt get the goal keeper just standing there with the ball while a striker runs at him from the half way line & then score a goal.

the match seened to play from the 3d engine where as si's 3d plays from there match enging.

Are you sure you are playing FM09? I never saw what you described above happening. It is SI's 1st attempt at a 3D display of the ME and it is pretty good. It definitely has bugs but cosmetic/visual bugs are not game breaking bugs. Functionality is the most important.

And your last sentence sums your argument up. The 3D visual interpretation has to come from the ME. The ME generates the result and events and the 3D view displays it. That only seems logical.

[Crpls]

That is a feature of dealings with oTRUTHo.

"They shouldn't have released an unfinished product."

[oTRUTHo]

Are you sure you are playing FM09? I never saw what you described above happening. It is SI's 1st attempt at a 3D display of the ME and it is pretty good. It definitely has bugs but cosmetic/visual bugs are not game breaking bugs. Functionality is the most important.

And your last sentence sums your argument up. The 3D visual interpretation has to come from the ME. The ME generates the result and events and the 3D view displays it. That only seems logical.

man im going to enjoy this & i wish i was there to run your words down your throad haha.

1)

I never saw what you described above happening.

hear you go, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJR1Mryt8wA & hears the thread it came out of http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=100047

2)

The ME generates the result and events and the 3D view displays it. That only seems logical

no ones saying anything diffrent & hears si's explanation. 4th post down http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=97539

3) im saying that player manager PLAYED WAY BETTER THAN FM09 & THE MATCH WAS 10 tTIMES BETTER THAN SI'S
_

wee man, if you want a fight or you want to join in with the numptys that think im amuing then youd better start doing better than you are?

[bullard4england]

I was about to go to bed but this has potential. Pass the popcorn.

[oTRUTHo]

I was about to go to bed but this has potential. Pass the popcorn.

hey hes disapeared?

think hes lost some where

[bullard4england]

Haha go get him tiger!

[jod123]

man im going to enjoy this & i wish i was there to run your words down your throad haha.

1)
hear you go, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJR1Mryt8wA & hears the thread it came out of http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=100047

2)
no ones saying anything diffrent & hears si's explanation. 4th post down http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=97539

3) im saying that player manager PLAYED WAY BETTER THAN FM09 & THE MATCH WAS 10 tTIMES BETTER THAN SI'S
_

wee man, if you want a fight or you want to join in with the numptys that think im amuing then youd better start doing better than you are?

1) What, I said I never saw that and I was right as I have not. It happened for someon and it is a bug obviously and will be fixed no doubt. I am sure there were bugs in Player Manager as well as in many other games.

2) I don't get what you mean here. I know that already. You quoted me and said noone is saying any different which is agreeing with me or not.

3) That gives the impression of either bias, exaggeration or both.

Why would I want start a fight? I don't think you are amusing, you are just giving some really strange opinions in my view. Am I not allowed to disagree without you becoming aggressive?

To be honest, looking at your recent posts and the ones just above, I don't why I bothered this argument.

[oTRUTHo]

wee man iv already took your word & shoved the back up your *** so im done hear.

[jod123]

wee man iv already took your word & shoved the back up your *** so im done hear.

As am I as I am not going to get anywhere explaining anything to you it seems.

[Suzie MUFC]

The publishers Eidos and the creators SI both wanted to take the game in a different direction so they decided to split with SI keeping the actual game i.e. the code, database and so on while Eidos kept the name. So SI teamed up with Sega to continue the series as Football Manager and Eidos teamed up with Beautiful Game Studios to create the new Championship Manager. That is what I think happened anyway.

That's pretty much it. SI got to keep the code & database, and therefore a winning formula. Eidos on the other hand had to start from scratch, but probably hoped that some people didn't know that they'd split from the original gamemakers, and so that people might still buy "Championship Manager" without realising it was a completely different game.

[jod123]

That's pretty much it. SI got to keep the code & database, and therefore a winning formula. Eidos on the other hand had to start from scratch, but probably hoped that some people didn't know that they'd split from the original gamemakers, and so that people might still buy "Championship Manager" without realising it was a completely different game.

Thanks for confirming what I thought.

[rancer890]

That's pretty much it. SI got to keep the code & database, and therefore a winning formula. Eidos on the other hand had to start from scratch, but probably hoped that some people didn't know that they'd split from the original gamemakers, and so that people might still buy "Championship Manager" without realising it was a completely different game.

Which is why FM is the Greatest Computer Game on Earth. (although as I Canadian, my citizenship unofficially requires me to state that 'Hockey is the Greatest Sport on Earth' )

[Mike7077]

Which is why FM is the Greatest Computer Game on Earth. (although as I Canadian, my citizenship unofficially requires me to state that 'Hockey is the Greatest Sport on Earth' )

Love the way you guys just call it "hockey". In the UK, when we say hockey, we're referring to the version that's played on grass outdoors.

[Box]

The most worrying thing about the split is now SEGA own the rights to the database/coding, so if things turn sour between Sega and SI, the fate of our beloved FM/CM is int he hands of the people responsible for Sonic the Hedgehog and the Dreamcast....

[Neji]

The most worrying thing about the split is now SEGA own the rights to the database/coding, so if things turn sour between Sega and SI, the fate of our beloved FM/CM is int he hands of the people responsible for Sonic the Hedgehog and the Dreamcast....

SI are part of SEGA now so the chances of that happening are very slim.

[Box]

SI are part of SEGA now so the chances of that happening are very slim.

Point is that the rights of the code and database are not in the hands of SI, regardless of how "Likely" a fall-out is, if things turn nasty the series dies. But on the plus side, Sega are a top company and a leading games producer...

Could be worse though, they cold have sold out to EA!

[nelly27]

Player Manager was a horrible game. Glad CM has that guy not SI. Did you actually play it. Guess it was ok if you were 5 years old and not owned a pc or an amiga.

[Äktsjon Männ]

I'm not holding much hope for CM's match engine and I doubt it will be anywhere near FM's but what their 3D representation might have, judging by that little clip, is animations and physics that actually resemble reality. FM's match engine needs a rewrite to ever look anything like a football match in 3D. Physics created for 2D will never cut it in 3D, simple as that.

[Drunk Beware]

CM is going to have The Northern Premiership (Premier Division), The Southern League (Premier Division) and The Isthmian League (Premier Division).

Now that is a mouth watering concept.

[stevvy]

wee man iv already took your word & shoved the back up your *** so im done hear.

Looking through most of your posts, you do seem to have a very poor grasp of the english language (or at least spellings in the english language). It's a good job I was able to work out what you meant, otherwise i'd be thinking "huh, eh, what's this guy trying to say"

[TWSOIA]

Instead of having one great game,now we have one good game(fm),and one too average(cm).

[sparks199]

just so you no about cm

this is there write up :

This is our opportunity to give consumers a reason to believe in Championship Manager once again,” continued Meredith. “After 4 years of mid-table mediocrity, we’re making great strides to become genuine title contenders. We want everyone to test this out by trying the demo which is out in March. Try the demo and make up your own minds.”

Eidos and Beautiful Game Studios are pleased to announce that the next version of Championship Manager, the leading name in football management simulation, will launch in April 2009.

With a complete graphical and engine overhaul,


Take total control with Championship Manager 2009, the leading name in football management simulations is back with a brand new look and a host of new features to bring the most loved sport in the world straight to your PC.

The fully animated, 3D match engine (featuring 500 fully motion captured animations per players) propels you right into the heart of the action on matchday, taking your management experience one step further. The only match engine specifically designed and created for a football management game allows you to watch the team in action as they put your carefully crafted tactics into action, view individual performances and be on hand to make changes when things go wrong.

With the development of a comprehensive training suite, managers can fine tune their tactics and their players. Fully customisable schedules, and numerous different drills, means managers can put individual players through their paces and then watch training unfold in full 3D glory.

With a brand new interface and backed by a huge database with all the latest data from the 2009 campaign, begin the journey to manage your team to success and bathe in glory.

Keep checking back as we’ll be announcing more features for Championship Manager 2009 over the coming months.

i must say the 3d looks the same to me ....

[Nimic]

"the leading name in football management" my arse.

[celebritykiller]

"the leading name in football management" my arse.

Love the way the call it the leading NAME and not the leading GAME, as in being the leading name as a result of past sales under the coding of the FM team.

I wish the best for CM, but will never ever buy it while it stays under that name... too embarassing (like buying a manufactured band CD, it's pretending to be something it isn't)

[Mike7077]

The name is the only thing the game has going for it. One thing that doesn't get criticised enough is the research. It's atrocious.

[celebritykiller]

"the leading name in football management" my arse.

The name is the only thing the game has going for it. One thing that doesn't get criticised enough is the research. It's atrocious.

Can't comment on that tbh.

Like I said, I just can't bring myself to try it out on principle. Competition is always good though so best of luck to 'em.

[TWSOIA]

just so you no about cm

this is there write up :

This is our opportunity to give consumers a reason to believe in Championship Manager once again,” continued Meredith. “After 4 years of mid-table mediocrity, we’re making great strides to become genuine title contenders. We want everyone to test this out by trying the demo which is out in March. Try the demo and make up your own minds.”

Eidos and Beautiful Game Studios are pleased to announce that the next version of Championship Manager, the leading name in football management simulation, will launch in April 2009.

With a complete graphical and engine overhaul,


Take total control with Championship Manager 2009, the leading name in football management simulations is back with a brand new look and a host of new features to bring the most loved sport in the world straight to your PC.

The fully animated, 3D match engine (featuring 500 fully motion captured animations per players) propels you right into the heart of the action on matchday, taking your management experience one step further. The only match engine specifically designed and created for a football management game allows you to watch the team in action as they put your carefully crafted tactics into action, view individual performances and be on hand to make changes when things go wrong.

With the development of a comprehensive training suite, managers can fine tune their tactics and their players. Fully customisable schedules, and numerous different drills, means managers can put individual players through their paces and then watch training unfold in full 3D glory.

With a brand new interface and backed by a huge database with all the latest data from the 2009 campaign, begin the journey to manage your team to success and bathe in glory.

Keep checking back as we’ll be announcing more features for Championship Manager 2009 over the coming months.

i must say the 3d looks the same to me ....

I know about new cm,i have seen the screenshots of the game and they look pretty good,i really don't care who's making a game,i would like to see cm be as good as fm,two great games in the market would be good for eidos and for si,they all would then try to make much better games!

[oTRUTHo]

some people are diehard cm & some are diehard fm. that will never change?. the only thing that will truely decide who is the king of the football sims is when you have both games & look at both from a neutral perspective.

[saviocm]

Wasn't the match engine from the game Kick Off, published by Anco I think? You got to control one player ( the player manager). It was very good at the time as I recall.

[TWSOIA]

CM is only the name,FM is a game(at least used to be)

[Box]

CM is only the name,FM is a game(at least used to be)

... and Sega rather than SI own the game now.

[muncherdave]

For the record the original Player Manager from 1990 was great and yes saviocm, it used the original kick off engine. I can't comment on any of the more recent incarnations, like the 99 version posted above, but I'd imagine that they aren't very good, much like the Sensi games post 1997.

Look, I'm sure the new CM will look very pretty and everything, but it still won't make up for the fact that the database will suck, like it has last year and the year before that and so on.

[TWSOIA]

How do you know that it will suck,i'm not saying it won't,but the demo will decide how good it is,you honestly think that they are developing it much longer to give us completely the same product like last editions that were pretty bad?It maybe will be the ond of the series,but it can be a new beggining for them!

[rmfarey]

For the record the original Player Manager from 1990 was great and yes saviocm, it used the original kick off engine. I can't comment on any of the more recent incarnations, like the 99 version posted above, but I'd imagine that they aren't very good, much like the Sensi games post 1997.

Look, I'm sure the new CM will look very pretty and everything, but it still won't make up for the fact that the database will suck, like it has last year and the year before that and so on.

The original Player Manager was brilliant. Started off as an all action midfielder then as you got older (bout 40ish) started playing up front because your player could only move for about 5 mins of the game.....excellent stuff!!

Would love to have a go of it again!

[muncherdave]

How do you know that it will suck,i'm not saying it won't,but the demo will decide how good it is,you honestly think that they are developing it much longer to give us completely the same product like last editions that were pretty bad?It maybe will be the ond of the series,but it can be a new beggining for them!

call me cynical but I doubt they can turn everything around in the space of a year and a bit. just look at the write-up they gave it, all they say is backed up by a huge database. they could claim their database is huge already, it doesn't say they are making any strides to improve it. that's what i call reading between the lines. at least they admit their games have been mediocre though

The original Player Manager was brilliant. Started off as an all action midfielder then as you got older (bout 40ish) started playing up front because your player could only move for about 5 mins of the game.....excellent stuff!!

Would love to have a go of it again!

abandonia.com has Player Manager 2 on it that you could download. I've only ever played the original but I'll give the sequel a bash tonight I think

[rmfarey]

call me cynical but I doubt they can turn everything around in the space of a year and a bit. just look at the write-up they gave it, all they say is backed up by a huge database. they could claim their database is huge already, it doesn't say they are making any strides to improve it. that's what i call reading between the lines. at least they admit their games have been mediocre though



abandonia.com has Player Manager 2 on it that you could download. I've only ever played the original but I'll give the sequel a bash tonight I think

Cheers i'll have a look at that after work.

[BobMUFC08]

Omg ive just seen the 3d match engine for champ man 09 and it beats the **** out of our FM one

[jod123]

Omg ive just seen the 3d match engine for champ man 09 and it beats the **** out of our FM one

Where have you seen it? At the link above?

[ahmufcwafc]

Where have you seen it? At the link above?

Err... Maybe the CM website? Screenshots of CM09 were released a few days ago iirc.

[BobMUFC08]

saw it on youtube, heres the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5m1T...eature=related

[ahmufcwafc]

That's CM08, CM09 has full 3D.

[jod123]

Err... Maybe the CM website? Screenshots of CM09 were released a few days ago iirc.

Oh, didn't know that. Thanks. Will have a look.

[BobMUFC08]

That's CM08, CM09 has full 3D.

Ooops i ment this one, you have to look closly as its a poor video but even so you can still tell how much better the graphics look than FMs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeN04...eature=related

[ahmufcwafc]

Ooops i ment this one, you have to look closly as its a poor video but even so you can still tell how much better the graphics look than FMs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeN04...eature=related

I wouldn't judge the game just by looking at that poor quality 10 second video mate

[TWSOIA]

I'll try it definitely,it looks better then new fm(my opinion),but how it's gonna be playable is another thing,and match engine looks great even though i don't care about it,i've never used it in cm or fm!

[jod123]

Ooops i ment this one, you have to look closly as its a poor video but even so you can still tell how much better the graphics look than FMs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeN04...eature=related

I wouldn't judge the game just by looking at that poor quality 10 second video mate

What amhufcwafc said. It is very hard to judge on that so personally it does not look any better to me.

I will try the demo and then judge it. (Glad the Irish leagues are added. )

[BobMUFC08]

I wouldn't judge the game just by looking at that poor quality 10 second video mate

Im not judging the game just the match graphics, FM is unreal as a game but imo CM's graphics look very good compared to FM's

[oTRUTHo]

The original Player Manager was brilliant. Started off as an all action midfielder then as you got older (bout 40ish) started playing up front because your player could only move for about 5 mins of the game.....excellent stuff!!

Would love to have a go of it again!

haha.
i used to start the game over & over till i got good speed stats. it didnt matter about anything else... as long as you could run faster than the other players then you were ok

in saying that. i played as queens park in the lower leagues & i always seemed to get a good player.