Selling the FM Update?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Football-Manager-2008-Update-Patc...QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Found this on ebay. Someone selling the FM update with pictures etc. Surely that's not allowed, as you can get the update, facepacks for free from FM affiliates?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Football-Manager-2008-Update-Patc...QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Found this on ebay. Someone selling the FM update with pictures etc. Surely that's not allowed, as you can get the update, facepacks for free from FM affiliates?

Surely it infringes copyright because of player images, clubs etc.

Most people would know that you can get this kind of stuff for free. I don't think anyone would be daft enough to pay for something you can get for free would they? If you are really concerned about this then contact ebay and tell them about your concerns.

Some people can't get access to the internet in order to download patches, skins etc but can usually get logged onto ebay for long enough to buy the things they can't download for free.

If people want to buy it I don't really see the problem. I'm not sure but I don't think there will be an Ebay rule stopping you creating compilations of entirely free stuff and selling it to people who want it. I may be wrong though.

I also found FM 2008 being sold for £5

Surely its not an original?

Im looking to buy FM, cheapest I've found is £13 from ASDA.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mizan:

I also found FM 2008 being sold for £5

Surely its not an original?

Im looking to buy FM, cheapest I've found is £13 from ASDA. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's a different matter entirely, if it's only £5 then it's 95% likely that it will be a fake knowing the stuff people try and sell on Ebay. So I wouldn't touch it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mizan:

I also found FM 2008 being sold for £5

Surely its not an original?

Im looking to buy FM, cheapest I've found is £13 from ASDA. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would imagine a 2nd hand FM08 would probably only be worth around £5. However, this being eBay I would thoroughly expect it to be a copy and not the original.

Im convinced the game going for £5 is a copy.

Decided to go with ASDA, cant wait for it to arrive!!!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I don't think there will be an Ebay rule stopping you creating compilations of entirely free stuff and selling it to people who want it. I may be wrong though. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll find out soon enough. I sent an email to ebay regarding this item and they are investigating and will get back to me. I will let you all know what they say.

Well I suppose you can't blame someone for trying (even though you have now dropped him in it trekman!), but the fact is, unless the player pictures were all taken by the compiler, or he has gained permission to sell the pictures by the photographer, then he is committing copyright infringement. That's not even mentioning all of the Club copyrights he's breaking by using official club logos etc. without their permission.

Theres more than 1 who are selling FM Updates!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rednwhites:

Grass. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How pathetic.

Someones rightly reported something that could be illegal, and he get abused for it!

No chance your the seller is there?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Toon07:

Well I suppose you can't blame someone for trying (even though you have now dropped him in it trekman!), but the fact is, unless the player pictures were all taken by the compiler, or he has gained permission to sell the pictures by the photographer, then he is committing copyright infringement. That's not even mentioning all of the Club copyrights he's breaking by using official club logos etc. without their permission. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As all the stuff he's selling will have actually been made by someone else and distributed for free I don't really see the problem.

I understand what you're saying about it possibly infringing copywrite laws but basically it's then the same for any face pack/logo pack we may download from a site such as sortitoutsi and install on our game.

Does it make a difference to the law if you distribute this stuff for free or sell it, I'm not sure. So the way I see it is that if people are allowed to distribute face-packs and other graphics packs that include kits and badges for free, then why can someone not collect these and sell them onto others who are willing to buy them?

I know I'm probably wrong here, I'd like someone to explain it to me though as I can't see why it's a problem.

There's about a hundred similar ithems on ebay for a 100 different games. He's not infringing any copyrights unless someone has gone and copyrighted their packs.

There is no excuse for someone being stupid enough to download it. Someone earlier said if the person dosent have internet access all the time, according to the auction its digital delivery!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by arsenal_2111:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rednwhites:

Grass. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How pathetic.

Someones rightly reported something that could be illegal, and he get abused for it!

No chance your the seller is there? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bloody hell. Breaking the speed limit is illegal and could potentially kill. I bet nobody's ever done that eh? You get a ticket for that and you'd probably moan! Hypocrite.

And no, i'm not the seller.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chopper99:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Toon07:

Well I suppose you can't blame someone for trying (even though you have now dropped him in it trekman!), but the fact is, unless the player pictures were all taken by the compiler, or he has gained permission to sell the pictures by the photographer, then he is committing copyright infringement. That's not even mentioning all of the Club copyrights he's breaking by using official club logos etc. without their permission. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As all the stuff he's selling will have actually been made by someone else and distributed for free I don't really see the problem.

I understand what you're saying about it possibly infringing copywrite laws but basically it's then the same for any face pack/logo pack we may download from a site such as sortitoutsi and install on our game.

Does it make a difference to the law if you distribute this stuff for free or sell it, I'm not sure. So the way I see it is that if people are allowed to distribute face-packs and other graphics packs that include kits and badges for free, then why can someone not collect these and sell them onto others who are willing to buy them?

I know I'm probably wrong here, I'd like someone to explain it to me though as I can't see why it's a problem. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The simple fact is, that it's illegal to make money from somebody else's work, if you don't pay them royalties. They can waive their right to royalties in giving you permission to use their content, but the fact is that the photographer owns their photos, and the licence to it... it's not like an idea or design where someone else could come up with it on their own and use it, that photograph is unique, and as such there's no argument that someone else took it after you did.

I'm not too sure about the status of these photos being compiled and distributed for free, but I'm pretty sure it's not exactly "above board", a bit like taping songs off the radio - nobody is ever going to sue you for doing it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Someones rightly reported something that could be illegal, and he get abused for it! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

To be honest Arsenal2111 I coudn't care less if anyone on here abuses me. Anyway after reading what Miles Jacobson has just wrote about people making or attempting to make a profit from updates and so on that are generally available for free it looks like I was right to inform ebay.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by trekman:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Someones rightly reported something that could be illegal, and he get abused for it! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

To be honest Arsenal2111 I coudn't care less if anyone on here abuses me. Anyway after reading what Miles Jacobson has just wrote about people making or attempting to make a profit from updates and so on that are generally available for free it looks like I was right to inform ebay. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you save someone from being conned into paying for something dodgy which they could have got for free anyway, then it's worth it.

Actually it could be legal as long as he states he is not selling the items, but is in fact charges for the effort he put in to bring them together. If he states that the items are free, and that his charge is for the work he put in, it should be completely legal.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by trekman:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I don't think there will be an Ebay rule stopping you creating compilations of entirely free stuff and selling it to people who want it. I may be wrong though. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll find out soon enough. I sent an email to ebay regarding this item and they are investigating and will get back to me. I will let you all know what they say. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why? Have you no life whatsoever. What is he doing to you that bothers you so much.

I thought it was quite entreprenureul (sp?)

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">What is he doing to you that bothers you so much. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd have thought that was obvious. He's trying to get money from people for something thats available for free from many places. Would you be prepaired to pay for something knowing that you could easily get the same thing for free?

update sold every year bt si

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Why? Have you no life whatsoever. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe not.

But he obviously has some decency... by not letting *****s get away with trying to sell stuff that doesn't belong to them.

Cheers for the reply Miles, that clears it up nicely for me

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lonestar007:

Actually it could be legal as long as he states he is not selling the items, but is in fact charges for the effort he put in to bring them together. If he states that the items are free, and that his charge is for the work he put in, it should be completely legal. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, it will not be legal as he does not have the copyright owner's permission to distribute their work on eBay, 'free' or not.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Glyn:

Originally posted by lonestar007:

Actually it could be legal as long as he states he is not selling the items, but is in fact charges for the effort he put in to bring them together. If he states that the items are free, and that his charge is for the work he put in, it should be completely legal. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

so if someone steals a car and he gives me the car but i a paying him for the effort he put into stealing that ok?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by turn it upto 11:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Glyn:

Originally posted by lonestar007:

Actually it could be legal as long as he states he is not selling the items, but is in fact charges for the effort he put in to bring them together. If he states that the items are free, and that his charge is for the work he put in, it should be completely legal. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

so if someone steals a car and he gives me the car but i a paying him for the effort he put into stealing that ok? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is a bad example as the guy selling this hasn't stolen anything.

A better example would be him aquiring lots of free car parts, assembling them into a full car and then selling it to you. But still a bad example as the parts he'd aquired wouldn't be copy protected.

Which is why I'm still a little puzzled. I can see why the bloke can't legally sell on anything he's aquired from SI. But what about skins and facepacks made by other people that have then been distributed for free. Is he actually under any official legal obligation not to sell these stuff, would someone realistically be able to mount a case against him.

By the way I'm not defending the seller (and I'm not the seller), I'm just curious as to how a skin or face-pack created by someone and distributed for free can have any legal copywrites that stop other people distributing it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">This is a bad example as the guy selling this hasn't stolen anything. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not the same as buy goods that were stolen physically, but it is the same as taking movies and music off the internet illegally.

I could say "I wouldn't buy the album/go to the cinema to watch this anyway, so they've not lost anything." It's still illegal because someone has invested in it. Even if the item/patch is available free, the person who created it has set conditions out for its distribution and these should be respected.

If I took some long-range photos of a family or someone's house and tried to flog them on ebay, despite them being "free", would that family not object?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kccircle:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by trekman:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I don't think there will be an Ebay rule stopping you creating compilations of entirely free stuff and selling it to people who want it. I may be wrong though. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll find out soon enough. I sent an email to ebay regarding this item and they are investigating and will get back to me. I will let you all know what they say. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why? Have you no life whatsoever. What is he doing to you that bothers you so much.

I thought it was quite entreprenureul (sp?) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Precisely. I hate people taking the moral high ground with such things and start spouting about how illegal it is when they probably do something illegal and far more serious every day of their lives (speeding is an excellent example).

I have never played a copied version of FM nor do I condone it but i've known people to blast people for doing so, only for the very same people to download music tracks and films for free. The hypocrisy is absolutely staggering.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by backpackant:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">This is a bad example as the guy selling this hasn't stolen anything. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not the same as buy goods that were stolen physically, but it is the same as taking movies and music off the internet illegally. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I completely disagree. Again, I'm not supporting selling this stuff on Ebay, but comparing it to illegally downloading music or movies and selling them is a bit of a stretch for me.

He's obtained all of the items he's selling legally so the similarities with illegal downloading end there.

What about DVD's or CD's that are given away free in magazines or newspapers. Is it against the law for people to sell these on Ebay for people who may have missed out on them?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rednwhites:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by arsenal_2111:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rednwhites:

Grass. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How pathetic.

Someones rightly reported something that could be illegal, and he get abused for it!

No chance your the seller is there? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bloody hell. Breaking the speed limit is illegal and could potentially kill. I bet nobody's ever done that eh? You get a ticket for that and you'd probably moan! Hypocrite.

And no, i'm not the seller. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How can you call him a hypocrite? Just because you assume many people speed and would complain about a taicket doesn't make him a hypocrite. There are plenty of people, I'm sure, who have been known to speed but know it's wrong and would just accept the bad luck of being caught and given a ticket.

Bottom line is this. You can't call someone a hypocrite for something you simply assume they would do.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chopper99:

This is a bad example as the guy selling this hasn't stolen anything.

A better example would be him aquiring lots of free car parts, assembling them into a full car and then selling it to you. But still a bad example as the parts he'd aquired wouldn't be copy protected.

Which is why I'm still a little puzzled. I can see why the bloke can't legally sell on anything he's aquired from SI. But what about skins and facepacks made by other people that have then been distributed for free. Is he actually under any official legal obligation not to sell these stuff, would someone realistically be able to mount a case against him.

By the way I'm not defending the seller (and I'm not the seller), I'm just curious as to how a skin or face-pack created by someone and distributed for free can have any legal copywrites that stop other people distributing it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is it not because they are technically patented by the original creator when they upload them? It would be like me putting music of my old band on myspace or something and somebody coming along and selling them for profit without authorisation. I would be more than happy for people to dl them for free but it would be easy to win a case built on the fact that the person selling is profitting from my work without my authorisation.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chopper99:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by turn it upto 11:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Glyn:

Originally posted by lonestar007:

Actually it could be legal as long as he states he is not selling the items, but is in fact charges for the effort he put in to bring them together. If he states that the items are free, and that his charge is for the work he put in, it should be completely legal. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

so if someone steals a car and he gives me the car but i a paying him for the effort he put into stealing that ok? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is a bad example as the guy selling this hasn't stolen anything.

A better example would be him aquiring lots of free car parts, assembling them into a full car and then selling it to you. But still a bad example as the parts he'd aquired wouldn't be copy protected.

Which is why I'm still a little puzzled. I can see why the bloke can't legally sell on anything he's aquired from SI. But what about skins and facepacks made by other people that have then been distributed for free. Is he actually under any official legal obligation not to sell these stuff, would someone realistically be able to mount a case against him.

By the way I'm not defending the seller (and I'm not the seller), I'm just curious as to how a skin or face-pack created by someone and distributed for free can have any legal copywrites that stop other people distributing it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ok its like some buying car parts putting them together and saying look at this car ive just designed that will be 20,000 pounds please.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nomis07:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chopper99:

This is a bad example as the guy selling this hasn't stolen anything.

A better example would be him aquiring lots of free car parts, assembling them into a full car and then selling it to you. But still a bad example as the parts he'd aquired wouldn't be copy protected.

Which is why I'm still a little puzzled. I can see why the bloke can't legally sell on anything he's aquired from SI. But what about skins and facepacks made by other people that have then been distributed for free. Is he actually under any official legal obligation not to sell these stuff, would someone realistically be able to mount a case against him.

By the way I'm not defending the seller (and I'm not the seller), I'm just curious as to how a skin or face-pack created by someone and distributed for free can have any legal copywrites that stop other people distributing it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is it not because they are technically patented by the original creator when they upload them? It would be like me putting music of my old band on myspace or something and somebody coming along and selling them for profit without authorisation. I would be more than happy for people to dl them for free but it would be easy to win a case built on the fact that the person selling is profitting from my work without my authorisation. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, this makes more sense I suppose. I can see how profiting from someone elses work can be seen as copywriting, even if the person did distribute that work for free. Would you then have to have a disclaimer though on whichever site(s) you were using to distribute the material stating that it was for personal use only and not for re-distribution?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by turn it upto 11:

ok its like some buying car parts putting them together and saying look at this car ive just designed that will be 20,000 pounds please. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that's what a lot of small manufacturors do isn't it? They take bits from Fords, BMW's etc, stick them together, tweak them and then sell them as their own.

Of course they've probably obtained permission to use the parts in the first place....

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chopper99:

Yes, this makes more sense I suppose. I can see how profiting from someone elses work can be seen as copywriting, even if the person did distribute that work for free. Would you then have to have a disclaimer though on whichever site(s) you were using to distribute the material stating that it was for personal use only and not for re-distribution? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You could if you wanted. I don't think anyone could have any issue with a randomer redistributing your material for free if it was available for free in the first place, there would only be an issue if you had added a disclaimer as you suggested.

I don't see a problem with someone asking me what skin i'm using and me being unable to find it so uploading it somewhere and giving them a link. I don't think the original author would care either, they would be within their rights to be annoyed if I asked for £5 though

Copyright debates <<<<<< *

Look, it's quite clearly a breach of copyright to sell items you don't own, either for profit or not.

As MJ quite correctly says, we facepack makers are taking a risk making facepacks available for download (after all, the images usually come from official club websites and if you read the Ts & Cs, you'll see that there are rules against redistribution of the images, whether or not you're making money).

People who argue it's not copyright are both delusional and ignorant of the relevant legislation (and I don't mean that in an offensive way, but they are).

buying it would save a lot of time tho......

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nomis07:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chopper99:

Yes, this makes more sense I suppose. I can see how profiting from someone elses work can be seen as copywriting, even if the person did distribute that work for free. Would you then have to have a disclaimer though on whichever site(s) you were using to distribute the material stating that it was for personal use only and not for re-distribution? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You could if you wanted. I don't think anyone could have any issue with a randomer redistributing your material for free if it was available for free in the first place, there would only be an issue if you had added a disclaimer as you suggested.

I don't see a problem with someone asking me what skin i'm using and me being unable to find it so uploading it somewhere and giving them a link. I don't think the original author would care either, they would be within their rights to be annoyed if I asked for £5 though </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Somebody would be within their rights to be annoyed if somebody redistributed their content without giving them credit for it, and often this is a stipulation stated where the creator uploaded the work, and I know that is in effect on sortitoutsi.net

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Robhug:

buying it would save a lot of time tho...... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is not the point

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scotty Walds:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Robhug:

buying it would save a lot of time tho...... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is not the point </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So, i'm guessing you are against any infringements of copywright of Football Manager? Selling updates, downloading a cracked copy of the game, etc...?

Aside from the copyright issues, I presume people here generally support Football Manager, and like to see Sports Interactive do well? What if someone who doesn't know any better thinks that Sports Interactive charge for updates. It's not doing the game any favours by making the owners look stodgy with their work.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Glyn:

No, it will not be legal as he does not have the copyright owner's permission to distribute their work on eBay, 'free' or not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You don't need permission to distribute something that is public domain or given to the public with unlimited access. Only if the author explicitly states you cannot redistribute it, (which SI has basically waived by making the patch a torrent)and limits where it is being distributed from can it be an issue. A copyright only prevents someone else from claiming something as their own creation.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by turn it upto 11:

so if someone steals a car and he gives me the car but i a paying him for the effort he put into stealing that ok? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Silly and completely wrong analogy. He didn't steal anything. Here is the correct analogy. The music store is giving free CDs of local artists. I pay my friend to go down to the store and get one of each for me. I am paying him for the time and effort of getting them, not for the CDs. Completely legal.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lonestar007:

You don't need permission to distribute something that is public domain or given to the public with unlimited access. Only if the author explicitly states you cannot redistribute it, (which SI has basically waived by making the patch a torrent)and limits where it is being distributed from can it be an issue. A copyright only prevents someone else from claiming something as their own creation. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is up to the person redistributing the product to gain the originators consent rather than the original creator letting them know otherwise. Take my music example from earlier, I created a CD with my band a few years ago, when I got home I posted that CD to myself recorded deliver, technically copywriting it as proof of my creation. Now if I put it on myspace today and then tomorrow you started distributing it I would be well within my rights to sue you as I have copyright the songs and you have not obtained my permission to redistribute it.

The concept of being in the public domain would only mean something if you were providing a link to the place where I was providing the material myself. If you were providing your own copies of my material then that would be illegal.

That said, I wouldn't have an issue with it and I don't really see why others would, as long as it remained free and you were making people aware that I had created it.