The massive disapointment I see on the forum

Well I thought that it was just me, but no... the disapointment in certain features of the game is massive among the people that worshiped this game, I know as I was one of them. For the first time since I have no desire to buy the new FM09, a bit by the disapointment from the 08 and a bit from what I read on this forum. From what I can see, the FM09 does not offer something new & better, and there are the same stupid stuff, features that can only harm you instead of helping you.

The first thing is (and I am talking from FM08 perspective) the player interaction, instead of helping you it kinda hurts you stupidly. Like when you say that the player has played well, he's on a Superb morale he goes to Okay simply because you didn't praised him enough. So what's the point in using that feature when leaving the player alone and not praising him is a lot better.

2, the tactics and the sliders. Since this was brought in the game I stopped making tactics as it ruined the game for me. I don't want to read for 2-3 hours just to find out what does half-a-notch on the left means. I played the CM 03-04 a few days ago and when I went into the tactics for the first time in long time I got a desire to make a tactic because of it's simplicity (but not too much) and because I knew exactly what I was saying to my players.

3, the AI transfer policy. They simply don't invest into youth players, and only offer co-ownership most of the time for some silly players, and other time they make a co-ownership deal for some great player and the offer comes from one of your rivals. They buy players they can't play, like they buy wingers and constantly play a formation without them.

4, when you sell a rubbish player from ou under-18 or reserves, or some player that never really played for your first team and when the team that bought the player comes to play with you at home, you get stuff like "X player faces familiar faces, what can you expect of him".

5, when the press asks you about a potential signing like let's say Aguero... there's an option "I've never heard of that player" ...and you're managing in Spain with Real Madrid... what's the deal with that???

6, it's better off to go on everything "No comment" because no matter what you say it will ruin your team morale rather than slightly make it better, or SLIGHTLY take it down. Why can't I say that some manager has been great because he remained upbeat after I defeated him and praised my team. This thing happened yesterday after I defeated Newcastle with Liverpool, and Keegan said that "Liverpool can be champions", I said something like "I liked how he handled himself in defeat" and Carragher, Macherano and Lucas from Superb morale went down to Okay or Good, simly because they think that I should not be praising other clubs. WHO WAS PRAISING NEWCASTLE???

And, whats the point to say "I think we can beat (let's say) Aston Villa today", and have "United Colors of Benetton" in the team moralle... some of them think that "We can win games without too much effort", others "Nervous", or "Eagerly anticipating" and half of the team from Very Good or Superb went down to Okay. What was I supposed to say when my team is on that high morale and your ass.man says that the morale couldn't be any higher?????

So that part of the game takes more time in clicking "No comment" that anything else.

7, whats the deal with the stuff not retiring and hangin' on till they are 90!!!??

...and I am getting a bit angry just by writting this, so I'll take a break... and latter I may be back to write some more... or just copy/paste what has everyone said over the past 2 years, and the things are still the same...

...meanwhile feel free to add some more things, agree or disagree with what I have written above etc...

This mass disappointment is something that has crept in slowly but surely over the years. Its no a case of people have to whinge about anything and everything no matter how big or how little it may be.

Although on the game, I believe that its long since lost its pick up and play pull that it once had. Football Manager is getting to a stage where its going to become too time consuming for many.

1. People do still worship the game. Its unfortunate that most people only moan here, no-one bothers to come here and praise the game, they are too busy playing:) If you check the numerous threads asking people to vote between FM08 and FM09, FM09 is a clear winner

When you find fault its always worth making a suggestion toward would would make it better. You'll get a more favourable response

2. Sliders - We've had these for ages. Maybe look at individual player tactics and not just team instructions

3. You need to give specific examples. I personally don't agree with what you are saying. There is an issue with some clubs release talented youth. In real life there is pressure on managers to get instant success. I'd say thats refelected in the game hence a preference to buy seasoned players

4. So? I'm sure the media module needs an update/revision. Perhaps this should only come up if he has played more than a set number of first team games

5. Its an option. If you don't want it dont select it

6. Its not better to go no comment. If you actually play the game and try a few options you'll see that you can get very favourable results e.g. the best player making you one of his favoured personnel

7. You need to back-up your statements

What is the point in copying and pasteing what other people have written, that justs adds the clutter. If you are going post comments and opinion its best to explain things in more detail.

There is a bug forum where you can log bugs and upload save games / pkms / screenshots

My view is that if you want to change things then you need to try to be part of the solution. SI were recently asking for people to state if they wanted to be future beta testers. This is a good way to highlight issues

This mass disappointment is something that has crept in slowly but surely over the years. Its no a case of people have to whinge about anything and everything no matter how big or how little it may be.

Although on the game, I believe that its long since lost its pick up and play pull that it once had. Football Manager is getting to a stage where its going to become too time consuming for many.

I know what you mean but its a football management simulation, not a management arcade action game. For some people it fits what they want, for others it doesn't

My view is its a simulation so I'd expect it to be time consuming and require thought.

The thing is that I won't stop playing the game over these issues I mentioned in the OP, but the thing is that it frustrates me that SI doesn't care (or looks like that) what we're saying, some things are mentioned over and over again with every realease, and still no progress on the matter.

I feel like they got us so hooked up on the game, it's like a massive hypnosis... and no matter what we say or moan, like they know that we will buy the next edition. But believe me, if I got cold on the game... and I've been playin' it since 97 (+/- a year) anyone can, and if they don't do something to "bring smile to our faces" and make this forum to be at least 25% for praising the game, someone else will take the lead in this kind of series (and I'm not talking about Championship Manager, because I do not know how it looks like, stopped buying them after 2005 and it was a mistake-buy because I didn't know about the split and the release of another manager etc, etc, etc... But hey, why not... if they get their heads down, and read what we actually write here and put that into the game I think they will take a big part of the cake current;ly owned by SI)

The thing is that I won't stop playing the game over these issues I mentioned in the OP, but the thing is that it frustrates me that SI doesn't care (or looks like that) what we're saying, some things are mentioned over and over again with every realease, and still no progress on the matter.

can't say i particularly agree, i think they're one of the better ones, for what other games can you come on here and talk directly to the makers of the game. Also, the day of release patch is as much evidence i need to show they do listen to us and realised with our feedback that they needed to resolve issues, which they did. Just look at the wishlist thread, i guarantee that there will be some features in there included (or at least thought through) for FM2010

Also, seconding Pompeys comments, most people will come on here to whinge because the majority who arent whinging are too busy playing the game

The number of new posts in here has dropped off completely since the beginning of the month.

Presumably all those people are now on the beta forum or went back to school. :thup:

Beta forum?

I have missed something.

Beta forum?

I have missed something.

Its a forum that's open to all the beta testers that were chosen by SI.

I know what you mean but its a football management simulation, not a management arcade action game. For some people it fits what they want, for others it doesn't

My view is its a simulation so I'd expect it to be time consuming and require thought.

It is a football management simulation. But it's impossible to simulate it when you can't have all the factors involved.

There are more and more people complaining about different stuff now, because it doesn't reflect the real world. That's what a simulation does. Simulate the real world.

They've made choices to not have this and that feature, because maybe it's too difficult to implement that into a computer game. Then a part of the simulation is lost already.

There are stuff they can't have in the game due to licensing issues.

There are stuff they can't have in the game just because of other legal issues.

If there are stuff in real-life football, then it should be in the game as well. But that's impossible. That's sort of some reasons why a computergame will never be a simulation. Especially football management. Because there are human factors that can never (well, at least not with technology today) be recreated in a game.

I view this game as a simulation as well. And as a football coach i don't recognize much of what's in the game compared to real world. As a former player in norwegian division 2, i can't really remember that it was this tricky getting instructions out to players.

The way the game is, is like you say. It fits for some but not others. That's how it always will be.

But it seems like now, that it's going a way where it's less complicated going into real-life management.

It is a football management simulation, but nonetheless a computergame.

A game where people can "pretend" to be football managers. The more real the better. But it will never be a complete simualtion due to the reasons mentioned above, bugs and refusal to see that it's possible to make it more simple.

Sliders have been here for a long time, but people have a big problem figuring out what the heck they do. What links to what. And how do i get my team to play the way i want them to.

It's beginning to be too many factors that can play a major part in what you do on the game, that it gets confusing for people.

If it is a football management simulation, then it should be easy to spot the problems. Where people go wrong. Not because of bugs (yes, i know there will always be bugs) or because it's too difficult to understand the way the sliders and everything else works.

I don't say it should be easy to solve the problems, but it should be easier to understand what the problem is.

Time consuming and a lot of thought, of course. But not too time consuming (like a real job), and the possibility to put those thoughts in the right place - like what is actually wrong, instead of how can i put these sliders in a way that gives me results. With the latter i mean, deciphring what they actually do.

A manager has a difficult job. But with the help of his Ass.Man and coaches he has a bigger chance of getting the best out of his team. Provided that you have the right players.

In my mind the game is nowhere near a simulation yet. It's getting better and better every year, but when they add features, they have to make sure they work the way they are supposed to.

Making the game easier to understand would be nice as well. It could potentially get even more people to play the game.

I hope you get what i mean with this, because i can feel now i'm starting to lose my own point

Just to make sure, i'm not having a go with you. Just trying to discuss a little bit here

personally, I'm enjoying 09 more than I have any version in years

Roykela its never going to be anywhere near what it appears you're getting at regarding simulation, the sheer amount of factors involved in football management is unreal, you would have to limit the users to those with supercomputers, aswell as most likely wait every 2 years for a version, and again probably get through a week in-game, in around a week real time, its only a game in the end.

where you talk about things that are wrong and how to implement changes, this has been helped this year by the ass man feedback during games, meaning he gives you indications, but at the end of the day you are the manager and you are watching the games and have the match stats etc. there for you, you should be able to demise some conclusion from that, aswell as ass man team reports and considering the attributes of each player and how his player instuctions shoudl be set because of those attributes and also his PPMs

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roykela:

Time consuming and a lot of thought, of course. But not too time consuming (like a real job), and the possibility to put those thoughts in the right place - like what is actually wrong, instead of how can i put these sliders in a way that gives me results. With the latter i mean, deciphring what they actually do.

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One of the most brilliant sentences I've seen on this forum in quite a while.

where you talk about things that are wrong and how to implement changes, this has been helped this year by the ass man feedback during games, meaning he gives you indications, but at the end of the day you are the manager and you are watching the games and have the match stats etc. there for you, you should be able to demise some conclusion from that, aswell as ass man team reports and considering the attributes of each player and how his player instuctions shoudl be set because of those attributes and also his PPMs

yeah. but haven't you seen why everyone is so annoyed? The match engine doesn't actually help, because most of the time it is not translating and allowing us to see what is wrong. What people are saying about the sliders is that it shouldn't be like a combination lock, where having one slider out of place means that your whole tactic is compromised. It should intuitively be obvious that you need to change something, not need to be looked at after a match as a statistic.

I know what you mean but its a football management simulation, not a management arcade action game. For some people it fits what they want, for others it doesn't

My view is its a simulation so I'd expect it to be time consuming and require thought.

Thats it, SI need to decide which way to take it and will lose and gain people along the way. I'm a little older and have played the game since the early days on the Amiga when you could play a season in little more than a night. I myself regularly played 10/15 seasons in the newer versions I think i've played a maximum of 5 seasons in one game.

Now it takes too long to set a tactic and tweek it. It takes reading on this forum in the tactics area to understand what certain things do, that in itself is bad for the game but dont take this as a moan. I'll play the game until I can no longer be bothered with it which sadly seems to be coming faster than I'd wish

FM 09 is the most fun version since 06... Difficulty level is a bit lighter than 08 (transfers may be just a tad easy - I built an Oxford team of free transfers that won back to back BSP and L2 titles then won the L1 playoffs after I left despite very few changes between BSP and L1). Yes the addictiveness might have dropped off a bit, but that's because the complexity of the game makes it less easy to blast through half a season in one go. As has already been said it's an impossible goal to simulate the real world, but this incarnation is probably the most realistic yet. If you aren't enjoying it experiment with new leagues and nations (and never manage your own team, you get too involved).

personally, I'm enjoying 09 more than I have any version in years

2009 isn't really up to scratch, particularly the match engine. There are still aspects that are nerfed or completely disabled; goalkeeper distribution, long shots/free kicks, defender movement and marking, wingers, pace of defenders vs actual physical abilities of player etc.

There's a whole lot of stuff that needs to be better in 2010, no doubt about it. Personally, I am waiting on the Valentines Day* Patch (*not literally) and hope for a much more FML match engine or at the very least a fully functioning 9.2 sans ratings/free role bug.

One thing that has been really frustrating for me personally was the response to bugs (nevermind the apparently anarchic and random nature of the forum itself) in the second patch: many ME and game issue 'solutions' were truly horrendous hacks that showed a total lack anticipation for potential side effects. It made me really wonder just who SI has employed working on these issues and how professional or properly supervised they are. This is the basis of my 'doubt' about SI's capacity to bounce back and produce a truly quality product in 2010. I sincerely don't think they have the structure, the management, the skills or the genuine passion for the title among the rank and file to get the job done properly. Paul C made numerous conciliatory comments about the testing and Q&A but really, should any business be in a position where it either doesn't have the capacity to test its product properly, or doesn't have the staff to rectify the bugs that are detected pre-release? Having to rely on fan feedback and numerous critical fix patches as long as six months down the line and for there to still be obvious issues when work commences on the next iteration? I'm sure it could be much better and evidently the management needs to be better and the staff need to be getting better performance and incentive bonuses to ensure the product is ready when its shipped.

The forums peak and trough like all others, especially since release dates tend to coincide with holidays and - as has been pointed out - a greater proportion of people do come here with the express intention of having a moan which can skew the perceived 'general' reception of the game. I think in the main the response to 9.2 (the game not the activation issues) has been one of post-hype deflation and equal parts frustration (tactical module) and irritation with the numerous long running 'features' that simply do not work correctly or to an acceptable standard to avoid constant criticism.

This year's 9.2 ME has been the worst I can recall as has the level of optimisation and streamlining of the UI and database operations. It really is a total stinker and should be humanely euthanized ASAP. There have also been many threads raising concerns about the blatant manipulation of cup draws and title race results to artificially foster a sense of suspense etc. It evidently shatters the immersion and feeling of genuine accomplishment irrevocably not to mention being seemingly utterly inconsistent with a truly interactive experience when your team suddenly falls apart against the bottom ranked outfit or you 'magically' start drawing or losing heavily when the game decides you are getting too many points in front. A personal niggle is the degree with which league and cup form don't corelate; its realistic of course, but its too much of a knife edge. Result: more frustration at sloppy design/implementation and generally unwanted transparency cropping up, often incoherently and with extreme vent on the forums. A cascade effect around release time usually produces pages of bile and lets face it no moderator on Earth is going to cope with or want to deal with that on a daily basis.

Re: the general forum atmosphere I think it weathered the Christmas holiday storm OK. Thanks in no small part to the number of posters who just let the worst excesses go by without stoking the flames or feeding the trolls.

Myself not included obviously! :thup:

Roykela its never going to be anywhere near what it appears you're getting at regarding simulation, the sheer amount of factors involved in football management is unreal, you would have to limit the users to those with supercomputers, aswell as most likely wait every 2 years for a version, and again probably get through a week in-game, in around a week real time, its only a game in the end.

where you talk about things that are wrong and how to implement changes, this has been helped this year by the ass man feedback during games, meaning he gives you indications, but at the end of the day you are the manager and you are watching the games and have the match stats etc. there for you, you should be able to demise some conclusion from that, aswell as ass man team reports and considering the attributes of each player and how his player instuctions shoudl be set because of those attributes and also his PPMs

The sheer amount of factors is unreal, and that's why it will never be a real-life simulation.

The beauty about about FM is that people with low-spec computer can play it. However when introducing 3D it seems like it takes more of a graphics-card than Chrysis does (not literally)

Everyone (well almost) loves the fact that it comes out every year. But it seems like SI gets less and less time polish the product. Every year it comes out "unfinished". New features has been added but old problems stilll remains. Old features that was fixed on older previous versions return.

And one of my main points are, it is simply a game when it comes down to it. So we agree there

About the help from the Ass.Man now.

He gives you advice about stuff that happens throughout the match.

Eventually it seems like you will end up showing all the players on their weaker foot.

Close everyone down and tackle them hard.

And when it comes to close the gap between defence and midfield, well if people don't visit the forums, they probably won't know that it has nothing to do with the players at all. Something that would normally make sense if there's nobody "in between" to control that space. But the Ass.Man doesn't give you that help.

It has got to do with the mentality settings of the players (correct me if i'm wrong).

Now, wouldn't it be a bit more helpful if the Ass.Man said that instead?

Many times he also gives you a fantastic report about a great player you want to buy, but as soon as you buy the player he changed his mind to the player being just an average Joe.

Why the change of heart in 2-3 days?!

I just wish that the game was a bit easier to understand. I don't mean easier to get results.

If there is a gap between the defenders and midfielders it would be easier to understand what to do about it.

I'm not trying to flame the game or the developers. But one thing is, it doesn't have to be a lot of features and confusing stuff to make it a challenge. If it's meant to be a simulation, then make sure features work the way they should. Otherwise it's basically going to be trial and error to find out if it is the players fault, a badly implemented feature, a bug or just difficult to understand how it works.

Keeping it simple is a way that works for most people. Like i said, that doesn't necessarily mean an easier game. Just easier to understand. Easier to know what's doing what. But still have enough stuff for those who loves the tweaking and micromanagement.

This mass disappointment is something that has crept in slowly but surely over the years. Its no a case of people have to whinge about anything and everything no matter how big or how little it may be.

Although on the game, I believe that its long since lost its pick up and play pull that it once had. Football Manager is getting to a stage where its going to become too time consuming for many.

The thing is that I won't stop playing the game over these issues I mentioned in the OP, but the thing is that it frustrates me that SI doesn't care (or looks like that) what we're saying, some things are mentioned over and over again with every realease, and still no progress on the matter.

I feel like they got us so hooked up on the game, it's like a massive hypnosis... and no matter what we say or moan, like they know that we will buy the next edition. But believe me, if I got cold on the game... and I've been playin' it since 97 (+/- a year) anyone can, and if they don't do something to "bring smile to our faces" and make this forum to be at least 25% for praising the game, someone else will take the lead in this kind of series (and I'm not talking about Championship Manager, because I do not know how it looks like, stopped buying them after 2005 and it was a mistake-buy because I didn't know about the split and the release of another manager etc, etc, etc... But hey, why not... if they get their heads down, and read what we actually write here and put that into the game I think they will take a big part of the cake current;ly owned by SI)

Simple supply and demand suggests if we dont like it then we wont buy it.

My recommendation to you is to think through your individual issues then consider how you would think they could be improved. Once done add a thread for each. This is great way to see what others think and perhaps evolve your original suggestion. Its how many changes in the current version have come in to being.

I did laugh at your mass hypnosis statement and in a funny way you are correct. I've bought each version since the first on the Amiga so I need Paul McKenna to click his fingers soon and bring me out of my trance

Some superb thoughts here...

But I guess SI won't really care, they'll just introduce some new flashy things like the super-idiotic 3D match engine... That'll surely please fanboys

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roykela:

If it's meant to be a simulation, then make sure features work the way they should. Otherwise it's basically going to be trial and error to find out if it is the players fault, a badly implemented feature, a bug or just difficult to understand how it works.

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You're absolutely right!

Second time I do this (quote roykela), maybe it's because that my English is limited so I can't express myself the way I want to, but roykela said some of the things I wanted to say.

Roykela - yes I understand what you are saying and to some extent agree. Its a common issue

The problem is.....where as a manager will have a talk in the changing room or after training pre-matches his tactical demands of the team and of players will be communicated verbally

Until SI develop this module () then it has to be represented in a different way. Sliders it is currently. As an alternative or improvement what could be used instead? Thats the dilemma and as users / buyers we need to indicate in a reasonable way how this could be improved in a way that would appeal to the vast majority of current and potential new gamers

Quite a tricky one......

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roykela:

If it's meant to be a simulation, then make sure features work the way they should. Otherwise it's basically going to be trial and error to find out if it is the players fault, a badly implemented feature, a bug or just difficult to understand how it works.

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You're absolutely right!

Second time I do this (quote roykela), maybe it's because that my English is limited so I can't express myself the way I want to, but roykela said some of the things I wanted to say.

Your English is good and I understand what you are saying. The positive bit you can do is to apply your thoughts and frustrations into suggestions of improvements.

If you read these forums then the slider tactics have come in for plenty of comment. Unfortunately there has been few practical suggestions...thats the hard bit

There is a category for future improvements for new releases

Yeah, that's the thing MrPompey. It's not easy, but now it's sliders and that's what we've got to tinker around with. Just would be nice to actually see that the changes the player makes would be more accurately represented on the 3D/2D screen.

But i understand and agree with what you're saying there. A very tricky one

Would be nice to just shout your orders into a microphone and then everything changes in the game, wouldn't it

Marko An. - Glad to hear that i'm helping you out with expressing some of your feelings :

That could be another minor thing. Many people don't have English as their native language (including me) so they don't understand what things mean. I'm norwegian myself but i always play the game in English. Sometimes i change to norwegian in the game to understand what some words mean, and that works sometimes.

But i have also noticed that there are many errors when it comes to translations. It seems like the translators had a hard times finding norwegian words for some stuff, and then using direct translation for use in-game. That doesn't really help either, because it ends up horribly wrong. But that's for a different thread

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roykela:

If it's meant to be a simulation, then make sure features work the way they should. Otherwise it's basically going to be trial and error to find out if it is the players fault, a badly implemented feature, a bug or just difficult to understand how it works.

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You're absolutely right!

Second time I do this (quote roykela), maybe it's because that my English is limited so I can't express myself the way I want to, but roykela said some of the things I wanted to say.

Yeah, that's the thing MrPompey. It's not easy, but now it's sliders and that's what we've got to tinker around with. Just would be nice to actually see that the changes the player makes would be more accurately represented on the 3D/2D screen.

But i understand and agree with what you're saying there. A very tricky one

Would be nice to just shout your orders into a microphone and then everything changes in the game, wouldn't it

Marko An. - Glad to hear that i'm helping you out with expressing some of your feelings :

That could be another minor thing. Many people don't have English as their native language (including me) so they don't understand what things mean. I'm norwegian myself but i always play the game in English. Sometimes i change to norwegian in the game to understand what some words mean, and that works sometimes.

But i have also noticed that there are many errors when it comes to translations. It seems like the translators had a hard times finding norwegian words for some stuff, and then using direct translation for use in-game. That doesn't really help either, because it ends up horribly wrong. But that's for a different thread

Microphone - Yeah SI whens that module available

Why not volunteer to SI to beta test FM10 translation

The thought has crossed my mind, but unfortunately there will be no time. Will be a little one popping out of the missus soon and then it's byebye to the regular FM playing and spending time at the forums.

Spending every available moment now with FM and the forums before it's time

I would probably crash my computer with my swearing and yelling when my team is playing like lobotomized (is that a word?) goldfish against a much weaker team

So for me, maybe a microphone would be a bad idea for me

At the end of the day, I love FM, loads of others do and SI have made a good game that is addictive. Can some suggest a better simulation game or even a better football game than the FM/CM series.......

TBH, I will answer it myself....... Hellllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll no!!!!! WELL DONE SI!!!!!

(also think about it this way if your a pc person, Football Manager is keeping kids off the streets, adults from commiting adultery and stopping the domainance of pornography on our computers)

Of course. Personally i agree. There is no better game than FM. But that is another problem. There is no real competition, which means the quality can easily be lowered, and still be the best.

Is FM the best in it's genre? Yes, without a doubt.

Can it be made better? Oh yeah.

I understand what your point is Pacman Jones, but that argument just turns out to be a defensive point. How much better or worse other games are is eventually not important.

We're merely discussing different aspects of the game (here on the forums) because we want to make the game even better than it already is. Even though it's by far the best football simulation game, there's plenty of stuff that needs to be improved, and can be improved.

But like you say; at the end of the day, we all love FM

It is my own belief that when people come here to voice their concerns/frustrations about the game, they're not being hateful of the game. I think most people that come to the forums have much passion for FM. Some more and some less, but it's there. Where the misunderstanding comes in is that people want to be able to love the game as much as possible, even through all the nuances and headaches related to bugs, confusing tactical system, and other stuff. A lot of times, this is misunderstood as just pure whining. At the end, we all want the exact same thing, a game we can love. FM is special in this way compared to thousands of other games, which you pick up, play for a week and then forget about it. I am, like many of you, have many frustrations with FM09, but I keep coming back to it pretty much every day. Always with an ounce of hope that it can be better, it will be better.

Dirty Ace - I share your belief in the most part. I think there is a mixture:

a) people who mischief make

b) people who complain with reason

c) people who complain with improvement suggestion

d) people who post to identify views

Problem with with typed words is they don't express feeling and a few misplaced words can be mis-interpreted and get flamed

However more importantly people post, that confirms interest in the game which is good

Opinion drives this forum and most opinion also drive new features. Not sure how many people buy this game each release but it would be weird to find 100% happy. Check out the sales charts at ELSPA, its still number 1!

I'm 44, when do you get too old to play games

im still mourning the loss of my sarrows

why SI?

why did you take our sarrows?

However more importantly people post, that confirms interest in the game which is good

I'm 44, when do you get too old to play games

Tottaly agree, people post whether a praise or critic because they love the game. I do it too, and when I critic some parts of the game, that doesn't mean that I hate the game and that I won't buy the next one. All I'm saying that some things/features in the game drives so many people crazy, and they come here and say that it's not good and it would be better of like this or that, SI does the following... release the next game with even more bugs, because they put in features that are not yet tested as they should, and the old ones that we're so criticized and were offered better solutions for them over and over again... are still here, still bugged. I have a feeling that this game will end up with so many features that are only make-up or unusable on the expent of some already great older features that only need a tweak to bring a new dimension into the game.

But most of all I can't stand the sliders in tactics and training, I know that there's a manual that (as I said before) needs a doctors degree to understand (I am bit dramatic, I know)... everything else I can forgive, but not the sliders...

As far as a suggestion on how to change the sliders and with what, the first thing that comes to mind is to bring back the old style like drop-down menu where you can know and understand what you are saying to the player/team. They just need a tweak, maybe few more options to choose from... but the main thing is that you need to know what are you chosing/setting etc, etc...

People use the arguement that only moaners come on here, people who love the game are too busy playing.

Perhaps. But you will find a lot of people who don't like the game won't be on here either. Its not like the only people who hate this game rush straight to the forums. Unless you claim to know them all personally and their feelings on the game???!!!

I have played this game/series since its start (I know, I know, everyone says that) and only became aware of the forums last year, as you can see by the date I joined. And then that was by luck I found them.

If I didn't enjoy the game, I wouldn't come on here to moan. I would either take it back, sell it on, or let it gather dust, like I've done with so many other games. Bit like 09 is doing now actually...