No New Features Please?

Whilst this is my own opinion, its only a tentative one and I'd love to know what other people think about it.

Every year, SI bombard us with an enormous list of new features due to be implemented into their latest carnation of our favourite game. For the last few years, however, these features either a) don't work fully out of the box or b) impact on another, previously well working part of the game. In both cases, a patch (usually 2 or 3) are required to tie us over until mid February where we have a polished game that can be played with full confidence.

How about this year (altho I suspect this is a bit late, so, next year!) SI just don't add any new feautres at all, concentrating on making sure all the current ones are working properly, quickly and accurately. After all, the game has more than enough to it and the database is arguably its strongest asset.

Would this kind of development freeze aid the game, and in the long run, the series?

All opinions welcome :-)

Sam.

Well, if SI don't include new features in FM2010 then I'm sure just as many people will be complaining about no new features. Also I'm sure the question would be brought up 'Why didn't SI just release a patch to fix bugs, rather than have us pay more of our money for a fully-functioning version of FM09?'.

For that reason I don't think this would be such a great idea. The game isn't that bad as it is now IMO.

I think the CFO at SI games may have a slight issue with your plan to take a year off and not sell any new products.

Or if they sold a patched version can you imagine the forums and the posts about people paying $30 for the same game? it would be insane in here

Wow, just wow. People are either complaining that every game is "just a data update", including this edition, or they're whining that SI aren't doing an EA or LMA Manager on us and not bothering with new featutres for the next year.

fm10 without any new features is basically fm09.

Definitely not complaining. And I'm not advocating a situation where no new game is released. I would still love to see FM10 come to market, just fully working and functioning.

I agree with the poster above that FM09 is very good now, I'm completely hooked. However, it did take two patches to get us here and another one is definitely required as pointed out in other areas.

But as far as features are concerned, I really don't believe the game is crying out for anything major to be added. I would quite happily pay £30 for FM10 if it had the same features as 09 but working better, faster and from the day of release.

Definitely not complaining. And I'm not advocating a situation where no new game is released. I would still love to see FM10 come to market, just fully working and functioning.

I agree with the poster above that FM09 is very good now, I'm completely hooked. However, it did take two patches to get us here and another one is definitely required as pointed out in other areas.

But as far as features are concerned, I really don't believe the game is crying out for anything major to be added. I would quite happily pay £30 for FM10 if it had the same features as 09 but working better, faster and from the day of release.

im sure if they did this the game will still have problems,its impossible to have a game 100% perfect.

fm10 without any new features is basically fm09.

I disagree. The database itself is priceless and the features that were introduced in FM09 can be improved and refined greatly.

im sure if they did this the game will still have problems,its impossible to have a game 100% perfect.

Sure 100% perfect is unrealistic, but the game shouldn't be in an unplayable state which it has been for several versions now. Meaningful long term games haven't been possible for ages with all the flaws surrounding new players and AI team building. Sorting that out might not be a sexy new feature for the back of a box, but it is the difference between a management game and a coaster. Right now SI seem more interested in generating sales through adding pointless fluff features rather than providing a quality management game. They need to get back to their text sim roots.

Moreover the really trivial little things that never get fixed are mounting up as each new version comes out. Case in point how many versions have we had the inverted obstruction text, with the alleged victim getting conceeding the free kick? By itself this is nothing, but as the flaws are added in each new version it all starts to grate.

i agree, sum bugs or what ever you want to call them have been in the game for years,if it helps both sides out then what about half fix and game and half amount of new features.

the long term play is crap this year. i won't buy fm2010.

im gonna go back to fm2007 if i can find it.

Because of the development time spent on new fixes, there is a never ending game of catch up being played. As soon as one lot of fixes are put in place, another set are identified from the new features. Some time to pause and address this could be a welcome boost for the long term development of the game.

Are you trying to say that you would be happy paying £30 for a game that you already have, just slightly updated with something you could get on the internet?

If so, you're crazy.

Are you trying to say that you would be happy paying £30 for a game that you already have, just slightly updated with something you could get on the internet?

If so, you're crazy.

Well, not exactly. Its not like you can just go onto FM fan sites & download bug fixes

I would of thought that FM '10 will be FM '09 with some adjustments for the better. Like with '06 to '07 then '08 Newer introductions were things like being able to use bookmarks better or it was a brand new skin.

I just have a feeling that FM '10 will be '09 with a little spit and polish. Maybe ironing out some tweaks that some patches will never addressed. Maybe, maybe they may alter some of the game interfaces further like the 3D match engines, with on the fly menus improvements, change the skin so its easier for the end user.

Maybe, maybe they will let me to see a list of the staff that have applied for the job that I advertised for without me having to navigate in the email that I read, its just an awkward way of choosing the coach, or scout that your after.

Well, not exactly. Its not like you can just go onto FM fan sites & download bug fixes

So what are patches then?

You can download data changes too, such as WeeGiE.

You would be able to recreate it yourself eventualy.

no new features but fixing all the bugs + long term capability would be MASSIVE.

its sad that i'd rather pay 30 quid next year for a bug-free longterm playability game which i shelled out money this year for...

So what are patches then?

Completely forgot about that. I feel like an idiot now

But if SI were to release FM2010 like this, then surely they wouldn't release any further patches for FM09?

Are you trying to say that you would be happy paying £30 for a game that you already have, just slightly updated with something you could get on the internet?

If so, you're crazy.

Yes, I'd pay £30 for an updated and properly working version of the game I already have.

Yes, I'd pay £30 for an updated and properly working version of the game I already have.

Me too. Not indefinitely into the future, just for FM10.

As much as it'd please those who think the game is "broken" and "unplayable" when you buy it i somewhat doubt the likes of myself and many others who are very happy with their game would be particularly impressed.

Besides, the dent in sales from doing this rules it out completely, after all it's a product made by a company, a company's aim is to make money, won't happen.

As much as it'd please those who think the game is "broken" and "unplayable" when you buy it i somewhat doubt the likes of myself and many others who are very happy with their game would be particularly impressed.

Besides, the dent in sales from doing this rules it out completely, after all it's a product made by a company, a company's aim is to make money, won't happen.

I'm not expecting it to happen and I don't think it's unplayable but there are problems with the game. Personally I'd rather have these fixed than for example have repetative press conferences which alot of people don't seem to bother doing just so theres something to put on the back of the cover.

Every year, SI bombard us with an enormous list of new features due to be implemented into their latest carnation of our favourite game.

How about this year (altho I suspect this is a bit late, so, next year!) SI just don't add any new feautres at all, concentrating on making sure all the current ones are working properly, quickly and accurately.

Love the flowery language. May I suggest taking a year off from gaming to properly implement the education you already have??

Love the flowery language. May I suggest taking a year off from gaming to properly implement the education you already have??

Haha. I'm a qualified solicitor and currently working on a management fast-track programme in the public sector. FM is supposed to be my leisure time!

Yes, this is exactly what the series needs.

FM09 is an utter mess. It's so bloated and disorganised that for the first time, SI have had major issues with hardware compatibility on good machines, as well as processing speed.

I can't remember the last time SI have released an FM where all of the new features have worked half decently.

Advertise a re-structuring of the tactics module as the major new feature next year, and just fix everything else. There are far too many issues that have been around for 3/4/5 years now - the game is just bogged down in all manner of small/medium/large bugs.

People complaining that there would be no features - FIFA sells pretty well each year, they don't always have major new features in each release, just minor tweaks.

Board confidence still doesn't work properly - 2nd year running.

Regens have yet another problem - 3rd, 4th year running? Ever since they implemented that new regens system.

Transfers are unrealistic, do not follow real life patterns (Wenger spending £30 million on a player over 29), and negotiating is utterly random at times - 100th year running.

3D match display - pitiful, pitiful looking match engine, looks worse than actua soccer, and has a ridiculously high hardware requirement for what it is.

2D match display - once again stutters on my AMD X2 6000+, despite it being fixed in FM08.

Freezing issue - don't need to go into this again, basically, the game doesn't seem optimised for Vista and dual core machines.

Match Engine - defenders are inept, attackers overpowered, goalkeepers brainless (unless playing against an attacking team). One on ones too easy to create and too many missed - 100th year running.

Whilst this is my own opinion, its only a tentative one and I'd love to know what other people think about it.

Every year, SI bombard us with an enormous list of new features due to be implemented into their latest carnation of our favourite game. For the last few years, however, these features either a) don't work fully out of the box or b) impact on another, previously well working part of the game. In both cases, a patch (usually 2 or 3) are required to tie us over until mid February where we have a polished game that can be played with full confidence.

How about this year (altho I suspect this is a bit late, so, next year!) SI just don't add any new feautres at all, concentrating on making sure all the current ones are working properly, quickly and accurately. After all, the game has more than enough to it and the database is arguably its strongest asset.

Would this kind of development freeze aid the game, and in the long run, the series?

All opinions welcome :-)

Sam.

Haha. I'm a qualified solicitor and currently working on a management fast-track programme in the public sector. FM is supposed to be my leisure time!

If you are telling the truth its a really scary thing for any potential clients.

There was nothing wrong with his post, barring one spelling mistake.

There was nothing wrong with his post, barring one spelling mistake.

There is more to effective writing than just spelling.

yes, there's nothing wrong with his post. Too many big words in there for you or what?

Why don't we all focus on the topic at hand rather than the posting styles of other people.

This used to happen when each season a new version wasn't released the game was released named after the season. It had a data update and some improvements but, as far as I recall, nothing that would be described as new features. This worked well.

However, now that we have patches and data updates available online this doesn't seem necessary.

Personally I would love it if they concentrated solely on ME, transfers, and press/player interactions for FM10, but I understand why they won't. Games sell based on features, and they want to sell games.

It depends what you class as a new feature.

Fifa updates its graphics, it's match engine and it's database each year - there aren't brand new implemented things every year, but improvements on what already exists.

It's down to the SI management team to decide if just improvements to existing features is enough to sell the game for another year, or if people will just see it as an expensive data update.

It's up to them to know which affects consumer confidence more, a game with nothing "new" that has less flaws, or a game that has all new features but more flaws.

Don't forget that most people were perfectly happy with FM2008 after the 8.2 patch - imagine if FM09 came out and was no different but for an updated database and a few ironed out bugs? Would it still have sold as well as it did, and would it have raised loads of questions of "you're taking £30 from me for the same game!".

I did a poll to find out what the forum members would rather priority was in FM10 which has some interesting results: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=86631

The FM series is legendary because of creating longterm customers who then pass on their enthusiasm for the game to their friends (I know of network games in halls of universities that spawned from only one of them being an FM player originally); die hard users can only be created if the games have longevity, so 'bugs' affecting career games, while not affecting sales of that game as they are not gamebreaking, will be preventing creation of new die hard fans of the game and harming the series in the longterm.

What I would like to see (but is unlikely I know) is for the whole game to be opened up to modification by the FM community; if the user could edit leagues structures, rules, player/media interaction, transfer system, FRED production, player training, match engine, all the graphics... it wouldn't matter if FM was bugged when fresh out the box as long as it is fixable (and improvable) by the user. The worry is that the mods would be unbalanced (custom databases can favour one team without the user knowing...) I would say that this is untrue, and that the average modder would strive for a perfectly balanced game in every way, rather than improve their supported team. The modular way that FM is designed (each component of the game not affecting other parts) should mean that modification should be easy to do incrementally, so if one user thinks that there are too many injuries and that FRED's are produced with too low CA, he could download an injury mod and a FRED mod without affecting other areas of the game.

Yes, I'd pay £30 for an updated and properly working version of the game I already have.

yep me too

This game is a bit comparable with a good tactic in this game: if it works it's great, tweak it just a tiny bit and it has more holes then swiss cheese.

Now, what i mean by this is that the game basically already has all the required qualities to justify 'best magament game ever'-label, but the problem is like the author of this thread wrote, all the bits and peaces just don't function as they should. The tactical aspect of the game has to be made more simple, giving one easy order to a player (which could verbally be done with 3 words), shouldn't require pinpoint calculation with sliders. Also, you might (hopefully anyway) have in mind a very specific way of playing, but to actually make it happen accordingly can be a totally different thing. Meaning you might have the tactical knowledge to be a success, but what is more important here is that you have knowledge of how the game works, instead of how football generally actually works. If sir alex ferguson was to try this game, he wouldn't achieve any more then the rest of us (partly because you can't use hairdryers in the dressing room lol), but does he understand more about the game then us, or more then the people who made the game? So, you have to understand the world of football, AND the SI-created virtual-reality world of football...

also, media interraction (press conferences!), player interraction, ELIMINATION OF VARIOUS BUGS VARING FROM PLAYING IN THE SERIE C TO REPEATIVE RELEASING OF A TEENAGE-SUPERSTAR FROM AN UNMENTIONED CATALONIAN TEAM, 3D & match engine, just to name a few, should also be improved. And also if possible, full licensing would be great too, but that can be out of SI' hands unfortunatly.

Anyway, if all these things would be looked at, and hopefully improved and perfected by SI, then i guarentee that most of us here won't be shouting for any ''super-cool extra see-players-in-shower-room-esque'' features.

But at the moment, this game is a prototype more then anything, and nothing more then that. That's the way i'm looking at it anyway. But hopefully, it could be a prototype for something grand and marvellous.

The FM series is legendary because of creating longterm customers who then pass on their enthusiasm for the game to their friends (I know of network games in halls of universities that spawned from only one of them being an FM player originally); die hard users can only be created if the games have longevity, so 'bugs' affecting career games, while not affecting sales of that game as they are not gamebreaking, will be preventing creation of new die hard fans of the game and harming the series in the longterm.

What I would like to see (but is unlikely I know) is for the whole game to be opened up to modification by the FM community; if the user could edit leagues structures, rules, player/media interaction, transfer system, FRED production, player training, match engine, all the graphics... it wouldn't matter if FM was bugged when fresh out the box as long as it is fixable (and improvable) by the user. The worry is that the mods would be unbalanced (custom databases can favour one team without the user knowing...) I would say that this is untrue, and that the average modder would strive for a perfectly balanced game in every way, rather than improve their supported team. The modular way that FM is designed (each component of the game not affecting other parts) should mean that modification should be easy to do incrementally, so if one user thinks that there are too many injuries and that FRED's are produced with too low CA, he could download an injury mod and a FRED mod without affecting other areas of the game.

Excellent idea!! I hope SI really take this to heart. The historical and fictional game possibilities are endless.

If you are telling the truth its a really scary thing for any potential clients.

Cheers for that. When you've done your six years of compulsory training give me a call and we can compare styles.

Back on topic, I think the game would still sell well without 20 new features on the back of the box. A higher quality product would also engender a higher re-buy rate for following years. CM 97/98 was the first management game I ever played and as a result of that I've been hooked year after year. If I was 14 now and FM09 was my first management game, I'd be thinking twice about getting involved with FM10.

This isn't meant to be too critical, FM09 after two patches is a good game, but if the next eight months were spent making the game as good as it could be FM10 would be the best release for years - even with no new features.

Me too. Not indefinitely into the future, just for FM10.

Me too, I think the game has enough in it to keep us entertained whilst it gets sorted

i agree with that, but still, i won't buy another fm until ALL of these issues are COMPLETELY fixed.

yes, NO NEW "FEATURES". Just make what is there now work and work better. As said previously, make it faster, and make the graphics playable on lower order machines if they are lower order graphics.

I agree with the idea of having the game sorted out with the features that already has instead of putting new and new ones that are not working properly.

New features which make matters worse than before do no good to anybody ( eg press conferences ).

I'd happily pay for a slimmed down game with a decent 3D ME without the glitches and a tactical system which was logical and reasonably straightforward to understand. I'd love it if when I changed tactics I could see a logical alteration to what was going on in the match!

I'm not holding my breath though; it's more likely that we'll get some more bolt-on goodies that only work half properly....... .

The problem is games are made, like any other product, to make money. As much as possible. I would suggest that games such as FM probably have more dedication and care put into developing them than many others, but it still needs to make money.

Imagine you are new to football management games, and you walk into a shop. You head to the right place, and find, if you want in depth management, you pretty much have to choose FM or CM. Now we may know the difference, but they don't. However, FM now has new, bright shiny 3-D graphics. That would catch your eye.

then imagine the same scenario, only this time CM has its own 3-D engine. Which would you choose then, having no inside info?

New features appear every year as in any business the goal is to stay ahead of the competition. I agree with a previous poster, I think the 3-D is terrible, especially considering what it needs to run. People use the excuse that its only in its first year. well, then don't put it in the game till it works well. But then you let the competition catch up, and 3-D is still a big step up.

I personally regret buying 09. 08 took me 6 months to get into, but I eventually got a good game going. I hope same will happen this year, only time will tell.

I would pay around £20-30 for what would be essentially a bug free data update. would have been happy with that this year. wouldn't bother with another version till the 3-D is sorted tho. but thats just me, I know others are enjoying it. each to their own.

ive had my fingers burned by FM too many times now

if i do buy a future release it will be from ebay in mid february when the 3rd patch comes out and makes the game playable

as has been said, its all style and no substance at the moment

the same 'confidence' and 'regen' issues every year that they havnt bothered to fix and its just a bit pathetic

The problem is games are made, like any other product, to make money. As much as possible. I would suggest that games such as FM probably have more dedication and care put into developing them than many others, but it still needs to make money.

Imagine you are new to football management games, and you walk into a shop. You head to the right place, and find, if you want in depth management, you pretty much have to choose FM or CM. Now we may know the difference, but they don't. However, FM now has new, bright shiny 3-D graphics. That would catch your eye.

then imagine the same scenario, only this time CM has its own 3-D engine. Which would you choose then, having no inside info?

New features appear every year as in any business the goal is to stay ahead of the competition. I agree with a previous poster, I think the 3-D is terrible, especially considering what it needs to run. People use the excuse that its only in its first year. well, then don't put it in the game till it works well. But then you let the competition catch up, and 3-D is still a big step up.

I personally regret buying 09. 08 took me 6 months to get into, but I eventually got a good game going. I hope same will happen this year, only time will tell.

I would pay around £20-30 for what would be essentially a bug free data update. would have been happy with that this year. wouldn't bother with another version till the 3-D is sorted tho. but thats just me, I know others are enjoying it. each to their own.

wouldn't you argue that the biggest cause of piracy is discontent though? People recognise that SI are under pressure to release unready, bug-ridden games but at the same time i think people are sick of getting ripped off for the same product with some new averagely working features and the same flaws in the ME and other major things that have been there for the last 4 years.

Everyone obvious takes issue with the bugs, but the worst thing is that most of them seem entirely avoidable.

There are millions of people who would be willing to test this game pre-release.

The offside bug in 2006, the confidence bug in the last version, These are the 'slap in the face' moments because they are entirely avoidable.. For many of us it makes us question how on earth they missed them. Those two mentioned above were mind blowing and FM has never been the same for me since. I've approached it since with a sense of due dread and doom and the expectation of lies RE features and bug-a-rama. i think everyone does. They're ruined their reputation- i challenge you to go back and watch some of the cocky press releases from this year. It's ok to love the game and be positive but please... it's not the greatest thing since sliced bread- it's undertested undercooked and as a result probably underbought and over-pirated.

What keeps this game selling and popular is quite simply what keeps anything selling and popular: quality. They simply need to make it quicker, make the game more enjoyable and less bugged and get back to the basics that made the earlier versions so addictive and impressive. BUG FREE FM2010. As stated above: Fix/Improve player/media interaction. Make the players movement in the ME more intelligent (no arrows was a great start). Improve the AI on transfers, and you have yourself A QUALITY FOOTBALL MANAGEMENT SIMULATOR. which is what they're aiming for right? Not the addition of graphical dugouts.

I guess they are probably concerned about it being leaked if they test it too widely/early, but I don't think a Demo version has ever been cracked in the past has it? to be the fully working game? Surely there are ways around this in any case- by including less in the Demo pack but still the ME, or even inviting people in to test it- i'm sure there are enough desperate teenagers available in London or wherever you are!

hmm. was that a suggestion i'm some sort of teenage loser living in london? interesting.

I wasn't defending the game. I was merely suggesting that the above suggestion, where a version is released like a bug free perfected version of the previous year is very unlikely to happen, because SI/SEGA will always want to stay in front of the competition so therefore will always be looking at adding new features.

I would most definitely want any new feature fully tested and working 100% before it is on a released game, I think most people would. That is why I am dis-satisfied with this years version, I feel like despite the 'three years of development' for the 3-D, it still falls way below standards, and has caused other problems with the running speeds of the game and so on.

All I try to do is see it from both sides. We want a bug free, complete game, they want to stay market leader and push the game forward.

I am sure that SI will improve on 09 next year and will add some features maybe not as radical as 3D. I agree that the 3D is hungry on graphic card specs probibly due to lazy programming and codeing but on the whole I have been pleasently surprised how realistic it is, better than I expected (I was never expecting FIFA type graphics, Unecessary in a management game anyway. I like the fact that I can still see the whole pitch with elevated view to see how my tatics are working and see the hight of the ball, fouls, tackles etc

I think that the 3d is good for the first attempt just build the 3d up maybe work on stadiums ie crowds,managers in dug outs etc I started playing from first releas of cm and my 3 sons still play it in there own homes so i think that once your in to fm you cant get out

SI must concentrate on current features and enhance them and rectify bugs, stop implementing unfinished features. Still a good game but FM10 has to be rememberable..

hmm. was that a suggestion i'm some sort of teenage loser living in london? interesting.

I wasn't defending the game. I was merely suggesting that the above suggestion, where a version is released like a bug free perfected version of the previous year is very unlikely to happen, because SI/SEGA will always want to stay in front of the competition so therefore will always be looking at adding new features.

I would most definitely want any new feature fully tested and working 100% before it is on a released game, I think most people would. That is why I am dis-satisfied with this years version, I feel like despite the 'three years of development' for the 3-D, it still falls way below standards, and has caused other problems with the running speeds of the game and so on.

All I try to do is see it from both sides. We want a bug free, complete game, they want to stay market leader and push the game forward.

They don't have to push the game forward so relentlessly though. All they do is give themselves a reputation for not being able to make a reliable game.