I played CM2008 today (AAARRGGHHH!!!!)

Yeah, I played CM2008.. now let's steal some ideas

One of the first features on CM that jumps out at you is obviously ProZone. Its good. I've only used it for two matches but it maps out who and where your players made mistakes.

So if you are weak down your right hand side, it will tell you. I think this would be a fantastic feature for FM. It doesnt even have to be called ProZone.

Another feature I liked on viewing a match is the highlights filter. You choose exactly what you want to see and what you dont. The following screenie shows the options...

Highlights Filter

Third of all. The match engine. With the thread about 3D ME, I think that the CM match engine is excellent, MUCH better than Fm's in terms of aesthetics.

Match Engine

It doesn't look all that much but when you see it in motion, it looks great.

Those are pretty much three features that Id love to see included in FM. Other than that, the game is pretty much just like FM, but even uglier

Yeah, I played CM2008.. now let's steal some ideas

One of the first features on CM that jumps out at you is obviously ProZone. Its good. I've only used it for two matches but it maps out who and where your players made mistakes.

So if you are weak down your right hand side, it will tell you. I think this would be a fantastic feature for FM. It doesnt even have to be called ProZone.

Another feature I liked on viewing a match is the highlights filter. You choose exactly what you want to see and what you dont. The following screenie shows the options...

Highlights Filter

Third of all. The match engine. With the thread about 3D ME, I think that the CM match engine is excellent, MUCH better than Fm's in terms of aesthetics.

Match Engine

It doesn't look all that much but when you see it in motion, it looks great.

Those are pretty much three features that Id love to see included in FM. Other than that, the game is pretty much just like FM, but even uglier

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Neji:

So if you are weak down your right hand side, it will tell you. I think this would be a fantastic feature for FM. It doesnt even have to be called ProZone.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well..... if it doens't have to be called Pro Zone..!!

Pro Zone has been discussed before. IIRC, the general though was that, its fun for about a week, then becomes one of the useless buggy features that no one really comes to use.

2. Like the idea of the highlight selection.

3. Erm. No. 3d is great, sure, but I would much prefer the 2d engine to be perfected before we even consider moving forwards here.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It doesn't look all that much but when you see it in motion, it looks great. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've played CM and the movement is ridiculous - like blind ice skaters on acid. There are WAY more problems with it than SI's.

And I wish people would stop confusing the "match engine" with "graphics". The match engine is what calculates the game and a bunch of events that happen during the match, ie, how a player performs, reacts to instructions, how his teammates play, when a goal gets scored, when a world class save is made, etc etc. The graphics are just a visual representation of the ME, and it's this representation that APPEARS to have so many problems (like defenders freezing at inoportune moments). Once the 2D marries up properly with the events calculated it'll look a lot smoother - certainly no need for little skittle people.

I do like the ProZone idea, but I get the impression this is a third-party trademark. Play the game for a while and I'm guessing you'll see a lot of inaccuracy with it.

I think the idea of improving the highlights filter is really good. It would be nice to be able to ask the game to show you what you are actually interested in watching. Maybe for FM10?

I've voiced my opinion about the Pro Zone feature before and I am hoping, praying actually, that SI have some sort of plans to include this sort of feature into FM in the future.

I've used it many times while playing CM08 and I thought it was fantastic, and with SI's brilliance, I'm sure it could be made even better than CM's version.

This is the exact tool that we need in FM, a real analytical tool, and if you combine that, an in-game detailed feedback mechanism combined with the user's end of tactical knowledge, the outcomes would have huge potentials for success on the pitch and in the trophy room.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> And I wish people would stop confusing the "match engine" with "graphics". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I did say it was better in terms of aesthetics.

I also think a Prozone type tool would be a great addition to FM. In fact anything that helps people understand how and why their tactics are/aren't working gets a big from me.

The highlights filter also looks decent, I doubt I'd use it personally but may be a nice addition for those that want it.

As for the pitch view I'm not so sure. I've only heard bad things about the CM match view so would be a little wary to see it brought into FM. However, if it was done well I think this would be my preferred next step, rather than full on 3D animation. Actually, if done well it could look brilliant. But done badly and it could be a disaster.

Cm 08 is s h i t e.

i downloaded the demo last week. didn't even bother getting to half time in the preseason match. imagine if fm had that 3d pitch view.

buying players looks very, very easy tbh. the only thing i bothered to look at.

how queer.

Neji you are a bad bad man for flirting with the enemy! You must not give into temptation, this is where u belong.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Klimowicz:

i downloaded the demo last week. didn't even bother getting to half time in the preseason match. imagine if fm had that 3d pitch view.

buying players looks very, very easy tbh. the only thing i bothered to look at.

how queer. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Where was it that you downloaded it? I want to see for real how bad this match engine is

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by arsenal_2111:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Klimowicz:

i downloaded the demo last week. didn't even bother getting to half time in the preseason match. imagine if fm had that 3d pitch view.

buying players looks very, very easy tbh. the only thing i bothered to look at.

how queer. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Where was it that you downloaded it? I want to see for real how bad this match engine is </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

here

apologies mods, i feel like i've just had a drink in a Spurs pub for posting this link

I think the match engine looks awful stick with 2d

Really awful game, IMO. Looks cheap and tacky; even the font ruins it. Transfers are the contrasting extreme to FM, and the match engine looks good for about 10 seconds.

Fiddly and non-sensical navigation too.

Although ProZone is a good feature, it's not something that SI can just implement. It's a piece of external software which is used by real life managers. CM have bought the rights (probably exclusive) and have adapted it to the game.

An anaylitical tool similar to that of Pro Zone would be a great addition to FM, and IMO, is a must. Don't be fooled by how crap it is in CM. It's just badly implemented. If SI got a decent tool working properly, it would be a great use to everybody.

the same can be said with the match engine. CM's might play a crap game of football, and look worse then a moldy turd, if SI put some TLC into it, I'm sure they could produce a far superior to the one in CM. Personally, I believe that an isometric is the next step for the match engine to take, as it will give us a better view of what is going on.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chaddy101:

Although ProZone is a good feature, it's not something that SI can just implement. It's a piece of external software which is used by real life managers. CM have bought the rights (probably exclusive) and have adapted it to the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They can't use ProZone but they can use something similar. There is nothing stopping SI using the AM to be the analyst and the Am's could actually be useful!

I still think their representation of the match engine looks great. It looks really poor until you see it working. IMO it looks 10x better than the 'birds eye' view we have now plus you can actually see where the ball is going.

Dont worry, llama3, I know where I belong! I just got fed up of winning the CL and Prem with Blackburn on Fm07 and tired of FM08 so I thought Id give it a go.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> CM's might play a crap game of football, and look worse then a moldy turd, if SI put some TLC into it, I'm sure they could produce a far superior to the one in CM. Personally, I believe that an isometric is the next step for the match engine to take, as it will give us a better view of what is going on. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Quaoted and (hopefully) bolded for emphasis.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Neji:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> CM's might play a crap game of football, and look worse then a moldy turd, if SI put some TLC into it, I'm sure they could produce a far superior to the one in CM. Personally, I believe that an isometric is the next step for the match engine to take, as it will give us a better view of what is going on. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Quaoted and (hopefully) bolded for emphasis. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

agreed, an isometric view would be nice in fm, as long as they retain the full pitch view. i noticed there were other view options during the match, but i think i was about 10 seconds later that i quit and uninstalled.

i'm thinking about reinstalling the demo and anylising it further, there might be a few other positives. or not.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by backpackant:

I've played CM and the movement is ridiculous - like blind ice skaters on acid. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Class man.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Frankie 7:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by backpackant:

I've played CM and the movement is ridiculous - like blind ice skaters on acid. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Class man. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And so true! That was the first thing that struck me when I played the demo, little subutteo men trying to play football on an ice rink

Those 3D players... Are they pilons or lighthouses?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It doesn't look all that much but when you see it in motion, it looks great </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I really don't agree with this statement.

The tilted '3d' pitch looks so fake. The grass doens't look like grass and just feels like I'm playing subbuteo.

Bottem line is CM is crap. It will never take over FM. NEVER. They should stop making CM.

I'm afraid I danced with the devil with a previous release of CM.

The dancing wasn't all that good and there was a lot of falling over and cursing.

CM4 is one of the worst games I have ever played. Most of it is ok but the match engine just kills it. It's absolutely awful.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ackter:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It doesn't look all that much but when you see it in motion, it looks great </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I really don't agree with this statement. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I really don't agree with this statement.

Hmmm, I actually LIKE that match engine they have in Cm. Looks useful.

Always defended FM's match engine, but I wouldnt mind if they 'stole' that idea from CM.

I agree with your original post Neji, those are probably the top 3 things that stood out for me after playing the demo for a bit too.

This is with the proviso that by "match engine" you're actually talking about the ways in which the match can be rendered/visualised (as you clarified in a later post), rather that the calculations that go on under the hood to simulate the match. The latter is what I would refer to as the match engine, and this I don't think is as good as FM yet. Just to avoid any confusion.

Neji,

Pro zone or something like that would be a fantastic addition.

Have you got any screenies of it??? I'd love to see how it works without having to pay money for a sh*t game.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Richard76:

Neji,

Pro zone or something like that would be a fantastic addition.

Have you got any screenies of it??? I'd love to see how it works without having to pay money for a sh*t game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Would love to see a screenie of that feature as well.

Could always download the demo and check it out I guess. At work atm though

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by berggren75:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Richard76:

Neji,

Pro zone or something like that would be a fantastic addition.

Have you got any screenies of it??? I'd love to see how it works without having to pay money for a sh*t game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Would love to see a screenie of that feature as well.

Could always download the demo and check it out I guess. At work atm though </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didn't know a demo of it existed.

Although I'm not sure I could bring myself to load it up.

I'm at work at the moment too.

Can anybody else help me & berggren75???

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Richard76:

Can anybody else help me & berggren75??? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

CM 2008 Demo

Dunno what the SI guys will think about advertising their rivals on here, tbh playing it is actually a great advertisment for FM because it's so crap.

There are some nice features as Neji said, but it's just really pants otherwise and they haven't released a single patch despite numerous bugs.

I got gift vouchers as a Chrimbo present and was able to get CM and Fifa fot £20 from Game, I installed them, played them for about an hour each and haven't looked near them since.

Despite FM's supposed problems it is without doubt the market leader and will be for years to come.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nomis07:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Richard76:

Can anybody else help me & berggren75??? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

CM 2008 Demo

Dunno what the SI guys will think about advertising their rivals on here, tbh playing it is actually a great advertisment for FM because it's so crap.

There are some nice features as Neji said, but it's just really pants otherwise and they haven't released a single patch despite numerous bugs.

I got gift vouchers as a Chrimbo present and was able to get CM and Fifa fot £20 from Game, I installed them, played them for about an hour each and haven't looked near them since.

Despite FM's supposed problems it is without doubt the market leader and will be for years to come. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cheers for the link.

Can you post a screenie of pro zone????

Thanks.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Richard76:

Cheers for the link.

Can you post a screenie of pro zone????

Thanks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just google ProZone and you should find plenty of info and pictures of it.

Its too easy to buy and sell players and win games in CM. In CM2006 I bought Torres (£15M) and Tevez (£11.5M) I played Torres behind Tevez, Torres had 30 goals and 20 assists and Tevez had 5 assists and 70 goals in my first season!!

Highlight Filter

Pro - Zone

3D Graphics

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by schuey100:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ackter:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It doesn't look all that much but when you see it in motion, it looks great </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I really don't agree with this statement. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I really don't agree with this statement. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> This is with the proviso that by "match engine" you're actually talking about the ways in which the match can be rendered/visualised (as you clarified in a later post), rather that the calculations that go on under the hood to simulate the match. The latter is what I would refer to as the match engine, and this I don't think is as good as FM yet. Just to avoid any confusion. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know what you mean but I do think that everyone understood what I meant with the ME

Pro Zone Screenie

That isnt a great shot but where it says 'Leon Gooding played poorly in his central defensive role' you can click on it and it will bring up a bunch of highlights showing his mistakes so that you can try to sort it out. Gives a much better idea of where your tactics are going wrong without having to watch a full match.

I didnt get around to buying or selling players so Im not sure how easy it is but it's not like I'm suggesting you play it anway

I've just played the demo, to see how things work, and I think that the only useful thing would be a variation on Pro-Zone that was implemented better.

The analysis isn't that great, but it does allow you to watch back highlights of what certain players did well and what they did poorly. If this could somehow be incorporated into FM, where you could watch all the key contributions, both good and bad, for all your players, that would be brilliant. That way you would be able to see where your instructions for an individual player are going wrong.

I don't think the Highlight filter, is all that useful, as I think the current settings are pretty good at the moment.

As for the isometric view, whilst I was reasonably happy with it during the first game, it started to just look quite messy. I don't think there is any discernible advantage to that 3d display to the 2d display currently used by FM.