The pace issue

Most of you will have noticed hammer1000's recent thread regarding defensive decisions made by players and possible bugs etc. During this thread the issue of Pace was brought up. The following quote by Marc Vaughan says:

One of the things which people often don't realise is that just because someone has high pace it doesn't mean he can continually run at top speed throughout the game.

For instance in top condition (100%) at the start of a match if there's a straight chase for the ball between a 20 pace and a 14 pace player and they are both equally motivated to reach it then the 20 pace person WILL reach the ball first.

However if the match has been playing for 60 minutes and that 20 pace player has been exerting himself heavily in the 5 minutes previous to such a chase occuring then its possible a 14 pace player who had been starting around picking dasies will beat him to the ball - this chance will increase if the more naturally slow player is more motivated to reach the ball than the other player.

This effect is realistic and imho is often visible when 'fresh' players are introduced to a match as substitutes and can sometimes out pace other players who normally they wouldn't be able to.

I am of the opinion that if we have to start taking into account physical condition/exertions/motivation/whether he got enough sleep the night before (that last one is an exaggeration of course) rather than simple Pace/Acceleration then it just gets a bit much to consider when judging a simple scenario like chasing a loose ball.

Now my question is - would there be a way to program in the real-time physical condition of players during a game? What i mean is that based on MV's comments above, it appears that a player who has 20 for Pace/Acceleration only has the full 20 marks when he is 100% condition, hasnt exerted himself much during the last few minutes and has the right motivation. If i have a player thats say 83% condition, 'Good' morale and hasnt done much in the last 5 mins, would it be possible to be able to click on his stats and see his actual reduced pace/acceleration based on his current condition?

I understand that now in-game when you view a player, it shows you his general pre-game stats but an extra screen showing his minute-by-minute stats would be very helpful if we have to take these extra things into consideration.

PS - I have NO clue regarding programming so if this would be extrememly difficult/nigh on impossible then fair enough. If not though, maybe something worth thinking about for FM10.

I've another related question that follows from your post - how do you know a player is "motivated"? I've never seen any stat or comment pointing to that condition (although the ass manager's reports can mention it in a more general way). Is there a "motivated" stat somewhere that can be checked?

when you're watching a live game in TV View there's a motivation window in the Match Day Info window.

I have noticed (i am managing lower league) that determination seems to outweigh pace.

Obviously there are many other factors which affect who will get to the ball first. Is this what you a re talking about a clear indicator to say who is more likely to win a ball all things considered?

Set your pacey striker as a target man and then supply him with through balls aka 'run onto ball'. He will cut through the defence like a hot knife through butter.

That is actually a cool idea Blacktiger. It would be nifty if they pick up a knock, especially. So if your winger who you use for corner's has a thigh knock his 'corners' attribute could be reduced from 15 to 8 in the 'current effective attribute' screen. Then you'd have a better impression of how an injury or condition is affecting a player. Of course the realists would argue that you won't know such a thing in real time. But the point isn't to get exact information but to give you an impression of where he might be weakened

:b

That is actually a cool idea Blacktiger. It would be nifty if they pick up a knock, especially. So if your winger who you use for corner's has a thigh knock his 'corners' attribute could be reduced from 15 to 8 in the 'current effective attribute' screen. Then you'd have a better impression of how an injury or condition is affecting a player. Of course the realists would argue that you won't know such a thing in real time. But the point isn't to get exact information but to give you an impression of where he might be weakened

:b

Thanks.

I didn't actually think of it from your point of view but yeah it could also help with that issue. I just think that the game is already advanced enough with the detail of the tactics and training etc so any little widgets that could be helpful would be beneficial to everyone.

IRL if a player picks up a thigh injury then you would be able to see how much/little he is limping plus he would be able to actually speak to you and tell you himself how bad it feels. Thats not something we can see even with the 3D now so we need something to help us.

Also, they could have players go in the zone where they play their perfect match. This could be shown by having the attributes all go up to 20.

Determination is a killer attribute. It can make an ordinary looking player play really well, and it really affects pace as well.

Most of you will have noticed hammer1000's recent thread regarding defensive decisions made by players and possible bugs etc. During this thread the issue of Pace was brought up. The following quote by Marc Vaughan says:

One of the things which people often don't realise is that just because someone has high pace it doesn't mean he can continually run at top speed throughout the game.

For instance in top condition (100%) at the start of a match if there's a straight chase for the ball between a 20 pace and a 14 pace player and they are both equally motivated to reach it then the 20 pace person WILL reach the ball first.

However if the match has been playing for 60 minutes and that 20 pace player has been exerting himself heavily in the 5 minutes previous to such a chase occuring then its possible a 14 pace player who had been starting around picking dasies will beat him to the ball - this chance will increase if the more naturally slow player is more motivated to reach the ball than the other player.

This effect is realistic and imho is often visible when 'fresh' players are introduced to a match as substitutes and can sometimes out pace other players who normally they wouldn't be able to.

I am of the opinion that if we have to start taking into account physical condition/exertions/motivation/whether he got enough sleep the night before (that last one is an exaggeration of course) rather than simple Pace/Acceleration then it just gets a bit much to consider when judging a simple scenario like chasing a loose ball.

Now my question is - would there be a way to program in the real-time physical condition of players during a game? What i mean is that based on MV's comments above, it appears that a player who has 20 for Pace/Acceleration only has the full 20 marks when he is 100% condition, hasnt exerted himself much during the last few minutes and has the right motivation. If i have a player thats say 83% condition, 'Good' morale and hasnt done much in the last 5 mins, would it be possible to be able to click on his stats and see his actual reduced pace/acceleration based on his current condition?

I understand that now in-game when you view a player, it shows you his general pre-game stats but an extra screen showing his minute-by-minute stats would be very helpful if we have to take these extra things into consideration.

PS - I have NO clue regarding programming so if this would be extrememly difficult/nigh on impossible then fair enough. If not though, maybe something worth thinking about for FM10.

Current Ability is hugely important in things like this. I find that my defenders are unable to catch slower attackers who have a higher reputation. Match engine is trying to get the right result but cannot get that as well as a logical match to watch.