Becoming too old for FM?!

This isn't really a thread of any use but I wanted to express my disappointment with myself and FM.

I've been playing the game since the Amiga 500, waiting for 30 mins in my friends house for it to load.

I'm now 28 (29 in April).

Last years FM I thought was the best by far and I still stick to that now after spending a few months on FM2009.

I always set my ass.manager to do training, sort out friendlies and team talks.

I just want to buy the players, build my team and get them out on the pitch.

I don't normaly play around with tactics, just stick to a 4-4-2, the 2 CM's running half way up, use to have the wingers funning all the way up (but now I can't do that on FM2009). My CM's are norm a Att Mid and a ball winner with 2 pacey wingers. Upfront I go for a Forward and a Striker. Back 4, just go for 4 solid def's with my full backs running half way up.

I play a straight forward attacking system, just set to counter attack & I always leave the play style bars in the middle for the mixure.

My greatest ever game I'll tell you a little about it.

It was on 2008, went my beloved Villa. Took them to 6th in the league and managed to surpirse the big boys in the FA cup as I took it to Villa park for the 1st time since 1957.

Started the 2nd season, struggling a little to get the players going.

Then came the Blues derby, Birmingham City at Villa Park.

On paper I should of nailed them good and proper but for some reason they left with all 3 points and a clean sheet in a 0-2 win.

In my disgust I resigned!

I was out of work for about 2 week before I got an offer from Ath.Madrid.

Rooted to the bottom of the league but still in the Uefa cup, out of work so I took the job.

I managed to save them from Rel and we went as far as the semi's of the Uefa cup.

Job well done, if I say so myself.

End of the season, the AC Milan job came up.....stupidity aside I tried for the job.

Only to be given my P45 the next day!

But I managed to get the job!

Result!

1st & only season I was there we finished 2nd and no cups

So I decided to go on my travels again, this time the Arsenal job came up.

Cheeky as I am, I applied.

Milan were upset but begged me to stay but as I was offered the job I took it to return back to England.

My 1st season say me opening the season with a 0-5 lose to Chelsea in the Charity shield.

Had I made the biggest mistake of my life?!

Well the simple answer was no, 1 signing that was to prove the best signing I'd ever made playing....David Gigliotti came in for £15,000,000 from St.Etienne.

9 Months later sees the FA Cup, League Cup, Champions League and the Prem League all won.

With Gigliotti netting over 40 times & setting up another 20+ goals.

Now back to FM2009, I find the tactics difficult to master, the . in player ratings is strange and not needed.

I find the complete lack of consistency from winning as Villa away to Arsenal to losing at home to West Ham (whom were bottom of the league).

These 'new' features which involve a ass manager taking press conf's, telling the team they can't win away in the cup to a League 2 side....this feature is by far pathetic as it is not needed.

I could go on but I want to try and do something constructive with my day seeing as I just waste 4 hours playing FM2009 only to turn it off in disgust seeing my Villa side floating above rel and seeing my pos and in threat.

On paper my side should be doing very well, I mean I am playing alot of the players that led Villa to 3rd yesterday.

I don't want an easy game, I want a realistic game.

From an old gamer, prob the last FM I'll buy,

Over and out.

I was lucky. I started playing the games in 1997, but I stopped in 2000 because I got interested in girls. I then started playing again in 2005 and I've kept it up ever since. It feels like I'm making up for lost time.

You can find multiple threads in the forum, with the exact same matter begin brought up. If anything at all, I'd give you the advice to try out Razor's tactics. I know it's not fun to be using someone else's tactics like that (knowing you can't switch it to something else), but at least you might get the will to carry on playing a game you've allready bought.

Wow. I'm the same age as you (29 in August) and been playing for as long as you. The days of CM legens Solsezer Campbell, Lee Jones and Nil Lamptey.

I love FM. I really do. There are some things about FM09 that irritate me a wee bit but not enough to spoil the game for me. I am finding the FM09 tactics much harder to master and coupled with having a lot less free time than I used to, has led me to ask if I am growing out of FM.

Wow. I'm the same age as you (29 in August) and been playing for as long as you. The days of CM legens Solsezer Campbell, Lee Jones and Nil Lamptey.

I love FM. I really do. There are some things about FM09 that irritate me a wee bit but not enough to spoil the game for me. I am finding the FM09 tactics much harder to master and coupled with having a lot less free time than I used to, has led me to ask if I am growing out of FM.

I've been playing FM since 93 and am 28 also (29 in March! )

Had a great career game going in FM2008 only to find the regen system was zhite. Ruined the game. FM2009 is bugged as hell and the new features are total zhit.

I shan't be buying another FM. A legendary games series ruined.

They might fix it in the next version.

I could go on but I want to try and do something constructive with my day seeing as I just waste 4 hours playing FM2009 only to turn it off in disgust seeing my Villa side floating above rel and seeing my pos and in threat.

On paper my side should be doing very well, I mean I am playing alot of the players that led Villa to 3rd yesterday.

I don't want an easy game, I want a realistic game.

Would Numpty McBoss be able to lead Villa to 3rd in the EPL or is their position greatly influenced by Martin O'Neill? The more realistic the game becomes the harder it will be, that's the trade-off with realism because if real life was easy we'd all be running champions league clubs.

oh & pah to your age, I'm into my 30's, still playing & I fit the game around my work & social life/commitments, infact there are a number of forum members that have another 20 years on the likes of us.

Barside, I didn't question if I have time or if I can fit 'gaming' into my life.

I run a website, I am also a guild master in wow for a raiding guild.

I brought up the age thing as I was making a point of the game not being as simple as easy to pick up as it once was.

I remember 1 of the greatest EVER features being brought into the game (training a player to a new pos) and how easy it was to get your head around it. I don't want to have to decide where my players should run too etc etc. I want to be able to buy the best players I can get, build my team and see what happens. When you invest time into something you expect it to bare fruit.

Nobody is ever too old to play games!

I'm 31 and go through phases of playing a lot of FM. 09 has reignited those long-play sessions and, whilst I am frustrated in the extreme with some of the poorer aspects of the game (I feel as though its becoming too complicated design wise for SI) it keeps pulling back with its cheeky charm. The tactics are tough, the press conferences naff and so on, but I've taken the step of using someone elses tactics and my team are playing brilliantly. I would never have guessed this setup I've downloaded would work so I am going to learn from it.

As you get older you have periods of disenchantment with games, stare out of the window and wonder whether you've reached the age at which you should stop playing 'games'. That is just your wiser head looking for reasons to walk away. You'll come back though... when you are 40/50/60 you'll realise your current age is still young. I'm a game designer/work in the games industry, so I may very well be making games until I am actually considered old

Anyone who says you are too old for games is likely to never have played a game. That is changing, so by the time you retire I've no doubt there will be games targeted at OAP's!

Update - just read your latest post In short - agreed, it is a lot more complicated. Thing is that could quite easily be changed. A lot of the features are disjointed and no clean auto options are provided. Yes, you can send your Ass Man to press conferences. But they can say some stupid things. Yes you can leave your training on default but you worry you're not getting the most from them. Yes you can download tactics but you feel as though they are not you 'clubs' and that you might possibly be called a 'cheat.

It'd be nice for some people if you could opt not to attend any press conferences. The media would be annoyed, but you wouldnt have anything said to upset your team. Ideally the Ass Man would handle them better or, going a step further, the press conferences would be so much better that you'd want to attend. Training, perhaps you could ask your Ass Man to devise some schedules based on your tatics. As for tactics themselves, perhaps your Ass Man would suggest formations and improve them over time as your team become accustomed to them.

When a game becomes ever larger, more work needs to go into the usability side of things.

Incredible career you had on FM 2008, on the contrary though I've always found FM 2006 the finest version of FM. Had it all, you didn't need to go out your way to create a mind blowing tactic and players seemed easier to purchase. 09 is decent but has several bugs, I think SI have two sets of enthusiasts, hardcore games and casual gamers which creates conflict unfortunately.

The more realistic the game becomes the harder it will be, that's the trade-off with realism because if real life was easy we'd all be running champions league clubs.

It's not it's being HARD, it's the sheer inconsistency and apparent randomness that are at issue.

This is a GAME. A GAME should not present impossible problems! Difficult, yes - impossible no.

And FM as it stands does present impossible scenarios for people to deal with - the irreversible slump in form which people have complained about in various threads is one of them.

Playing the same game over and over with exactly the same tactics, team talks, etc and obtaining ridiculously different results is the thing which is inexcusable. If this game is to be playable by using intelligence and knowledge then results should be consistent within reasonable parameters. One would not have an issue with (say) 1-0 one way and 1-0 the other - that would show that basically the teams/tactics were roughly equivalent and the 'incalculables' (media, weather, etc, etc) would be enough to affect the result in those circumstances. But results like 3-0 as opposed to 0-4, which has been quoted by someone on another thread? I've had similar spreads myself and I bet that others have tried this with the same results. This makes the outcomes little better than a matter of blind chance. And that is not good gameplay. In fact, it's rank bad and needs addressing.

I'm convinced that SI has made the whole thing too complex. The things which should realistically have by far the most influence on the outcome of a match, such as player quality, team morale and tactics are given far too little weight and too much emphasis is given to things which it is impossible for the player to have control of.

Instead of adding new features which complicate matters further all the time, I'm sure that SI would do much better to slim the whole thing down and concentrate on providing a demanding but inherently logical matchday experience rather than on peripherals such as the rather silly press conferences which are little more than irritants.

So your greatest game ever was on last years edition and your saying your too old now hmmmmmmmmmmm

hilton210916, your missing the point *Sigh*

I'm convinced that SI has made the whole thing too complex. The things which should realistically have by far the most influence on the outcome of a match, such as player quality, team morale and tactics are given far too little weight and too much emphasis is given to things which it is impossible for the player to have control of.

That's exactly how I feel. I've been tearing my hear out this weekend!

The strength of your squad and tactics should have the greatest influence on the outcome of a match - not the blinking weather, match odds, media interactions, club reputations, etc.

I don't feel in control any more. So I've reverted back to FM08. At least I had a great chance of success if I bought good players and developed a good tactic. Essentially, I have control over my club's destiny in FM08. I don't in FM09.

Cheers

ps I realise that some people are enjoying considerable success in FM09. That's great. I'm pleased that you are deriving enjoyment from the game. I don't have the ability to master the current subtleties of the ME, and therefore the game is just not much fun. Indeed, it's just exceedingly frustrating.

pps I, too, have been playing CM/FM since 1993. I've played every iteration of the series. FM09 is the least fun version I've played.

I was lucky. I started playing the games in 1997, but I stopped in 2000 because I got interested in girls. I then started playing again in 2005 and I've kept it up ever since. It feels like I'm making up for lost time.

Did you turn gay eventually?

Incredible career you had on FM 2008, on the contrary though I've always found FM 2006 the finest version of FM. Had it all, you didn't need to go out your way to create a mind blowing tactic and players seemed easier to purchase. 09 is decent but has several bugs, I think SI have two sets of enthusiasts, hardcore games and casual gamers which creates conflict unfortunately.

Totally agree with this. FM09 has sometimes to many options; some who makes the game harder and some who makes the game easier. It's like SI don't know which way they want to go. Although I find FM09 a great game, I still play now and then 07 because of the easiness of it. Just sit back and relax and enjoy the game, no hours of tweaking before entering a match. But the problem is that eventually I alway come back at 09 because playing 07 is still a step backwards.

I don't normaly play around with tactics, just stick to a 4-4-2, the 2 CM's running half way up, use to have the wingers funning all the way up (but now I can't do that on FM2009).

Have a look in the tactics forum for threads by wwfan. They should help you out with your wingers. I think i'm the oldest to post so far - 40 and been playing since amiga days and don't plan to stop anytime soon.

Well I turn 36 in 2 weeks and I am just the same kid at heart I was when I started playing with cm97/98,sure I have the wife and house that I didnt have back then but I still make time for my FM game,if you think you are too old to play games at 28 then I must be in denial

Most football managers start in their thirties so if anything you are still very young in the world of football management.

I play alot of different games,pc games are basically my hobby and mostly I play MMO games and remember being in a guild in 1 MMO were we had 2 guys 1 aged 61 and another aged 63,so I guess the saying is true,you are only as old as you feel.

Both the 61 year old and 63 year old were always up for doing end game things and playing till the small hours and were great fun to chat with on ventrillo(mic chat).

So I would say at 28 you are still a pup

Im in the same boat. Used to play FM religously as a kid (31 years old so played the very first Amiga version too) and have had some great times.

Loving the fact that you can now watch your team play in the overhead 2D view (first seen in CM4) but it's been evolved too far in doing the 3D view and given the numerous negative posts about it, it wasn't implemented properly. If you'r going to do 3D then do it properly...that means animations for EVERYTHING.

Don't get me wrong, I thought and still think that FM09 looks fantastic but I won't buy it because firstly my computer is not powerful enough, but now I don't feel the same pressure in constantly updating. Instead I had a brief flirtation with FML but since gone back to my FM08 game because in this one, they really nailed the media beautifully. This is the end for constantly buying FM now because I'll be busy having kids, raising a family etc.

But no matter how many commitments you have in life, you need your luxuries and you shouldn't stop playing FM due to some outdated preconception about you being too old for them. I remember a wonderful saying that someone coined on these very forums which went:

"You don't stop playing computer games cause you got old...you got old because you stop playing them"

I would have thought any adult was capable of deciding for themselves whether or not they're too old for the game. Personally, I think it's a far more worthwhile pastime than vegging in front of the TV.

To say on paper you should be 3rd is daft, on paper spurs should be top 6 irl, and your just not gonna win anything by just buying player and using the same tactic, the game has evolved and so must the consumer. I don't think all the new features are good and it is a little tedious trying to get all the sliders exactly right. But that said the game is still enjoyable, and as to you not buying anymore fm games well let's just say that's not the first time i've heard that on these forums and i don't believe it for one minute! imo oh and i'm nearly 35!

I think compared to Champ series FM does have a hell of a lot of depth to it, if you load up a game of cm as a casual gamer you can fully understand where your going, how your influencing the game, how to train players all the rest of it, its basic brilliance.

FM series is brilliant but its hard to get into imo, training just confuses the feck out of me, as a big manager no problem but I love lower league games too and if I can't work out how to improve my players coaching wise then what scope is there for me enjoying it? I enjoyed blowing man citys £200M odd budget but I also want to have a go at keeping Luton alive.

Regardless of age its like anything you like things differently at different stages of your life but fm had to progress from the simplicity of champ man as ultimatley the game is a business franchise.

I saw a suggestion on another thread that the way FM should go is to create a genuinely demanding but logical match engine, sort the glitches with the 3D representation and then make subsequent editions basically data updates. That made a lot of sense to me.

Another idea floating around has been to have a choice of difficulty levels, which would go a long way towards solving the casual/hardcore gamer issue.

I'll be 41 in a few months. I have been playing since CM1, becoming quite addicted around CM3. Lost interest as work and life commitments took over around CM4. Returned to the fold upon chance discovery of a second hand copy of FM05 a couple of years ago.

Went out and brought FM08 immediately on release and loved it . But much like the OP, this version (09) is tiring and irritating for me. I just cannot get into it! I've tried several saves, managing to get through the first season and maybe a little more. I simply just can't get my head around all the inconsistencies within the game. Part of what I loved about this franchise was the fact you would get involved and end up screaming at the little players(dots) on the screen. You would have a giggle about it afterwards. By trial and error and sometimes (rarely) a flash of inspiration, you'd solve that irritating weakness in your defence or get that striker to suddenly find his touch again. And to be fair, that is still present in the current game. But the sheer and utter frustration of those things you can't fix just takes the enjoyment away.

I understand, that with such a large, complex game, that there will always be a minor bug or two. But this year seems the worst by far. Maybe we are getting too old for this? I think I'll re-install '08 and see if that works for me.

I'm 30 in July. Can't see an end in sight for me, as far as FM is concerned. Perhaps you should start at the bottom where you're not expected to win any games, and then it'll cushion the disappointment you feel towards the game.

I'm 30 in July. Can't see an end in sight for me, as far as FM is concerned. Perhaps you should start at the bottom where you're not expected to win any games, and then it'll cushion the disappointment you feel towards the game.

I cannot speak for the OP, but me personally, I always play LLM. Usually prefer Eastern Europe, never a big fan of Home Countries' leagues.

I'm confused by the OP; you're thread title suggests you're not playing FM any more as you're too "old" at the grand old age of 28. Yet, the content of the OP is more about your views on FM09 and why you're not playing it any more. There's no correlation between the two.

On the good side - I love to play FM

On the bad side - With FM09 youre players have turned into robots and it feels like youre on a quiz show.

Let me explain - If you or youre as. manager click the wrong answer on a press conf., youre striker will miss all one on ones the upcoming game.

I would have thought any adult was capable of deciding for themselves whether or not they're too old for the game. Personally, I think it's a far more worthwhile pastime than vegging in front of the TV.

Couldn't agree more. You'll get people looking down there noses at you if you say you spent the evening playing a game, but when you ask what they did, they had a thoroughly worthwhile evening plonked in front of the tv watching East Enders, Celeb BB etc

TV more acceptable than computer games? Surely not

It's not it's being HARD, it's the sheer inconsistency and apparent randomness that are at issue.

This is a GAME. A GAME should not present impossible problems! Difficult, yes - impossible no.

And FM as it stands does present impossible scenarios for people to deal with - the irreversible slump in form which people have complained about in various threads is one of them.

Playing the same game over and over with exactly the same tactics, team talks, etc and obtaining ridiculously different results is the thing which is inexcusable. If this game is to be playable by using intelligence and knowledge then results should be consistent within reasonable parameters. One would not have an issue with (say) 1-0 one way and 1-0 the other - that would show that basically the teams/tactics were roughly equivalent and the 'incalculables' (media, weather, etc, etc) would be enough to affect the result in those circumstances. But results like 3-0 as opposed to 0-4, which has been quoted by someone on another thread? I've had similar spreads myself and I bet that others have tried this with the same results. This makes the outcomes little better than a matter of blind chance. And that is not good gameplay. In fact, it's rank bad and needs addressing.

I'm convinced that SI has made the whole thing too complex. The things which should realistically have by far the most influence on the outcome of a match, such as player quality, team morale and tactics are given far too little weight and too much emphasis is given to things which it is impossible for the player to have control of.

Instead of adding new features which complicate matters further all the time, I'm sure that SI would do much better to slim the whole thing down and concentrate on providing a demanding but inherently logical matchday experience rather than on peripherals such as the rather silly press conferences which are little more than irritants.

Totally agree with this. FM09 has sometimes to many options; some who makes the game harder and some who makes the game easier. It's like SI don't know which way they want to go. Although I find FM09 a great game, I still play now and then 07 because of the easiness of it. Just sit back and relax and enjoy the game, no hours of tweaking before entering a match. But the problem is that eventually I alway come back at 09 because playing 07 is still a step backwards.

A few years back I was pretty vocal against the SI focus of making the series into a simulation rather than a game. For me and I think for many others, fun has been replaced by a fustrating amount of what feels like hard work. Though FM09 is a significant improvement over previous iterations presentation-wise, many of the excessive number of features are much too complex and non-intuitive. The game simply makes too much demand upon ones time for one to have a modicum of success.

Hoping next seasons sequel will be more abstracted, more intuitive and require less micromanagement.

Exactly. There are too many extraneous variables that, although perfectly realistic, detract from the fun we're supposed to derive from the game.

I no longer feel in control of the outcome of my career in FM09.

The outcome of my matches should be mainly contingent on the strength of my squad and tactics - not the weather, the match odds, my club's reputation relative to my opponent's, the number of fans I have, the amount of money in my club's bank account, media interactions, etc.

I find FM09 frustrating. It should be fun.

Cheers

ps I think the OP was suggesting that he finds the game too complex and difficult despite his relatively advanced age. And I agree with him. I'm 28 and FM09 is indubitably one of the most complex things I encounter on a day-to-day basis!

It's a game, FFS!

I was lucky. I started playing the games in 1997, but I stopped in 2000 because I got interested in girls. I then started playing again in 2005 and I've kept it up ever since. It feels like I'm making up for lost time.

I am a granny, shame on me, 34 here.

Am 47 and first played a FM game on the spectrum and have been hooked ever since I think each version has added more and more to the game.

Simply love it hope to still be playing when I am 67

I shared the same frustrations as the original poster. I just think that the game has got too complicated for me to play in the limited spare time I have available. I tried the demo of 2009 and although I was impressed I realised that I just couldn't devote the time needed to make it fun.

I decided I would buy a PSP to give me something to play on in the small pockets of spare time I have. I originally bought Fifa 09 which kept me going for a while then I decided to give the FMH09 a go. It has rekindled my love of the game. You can buy players set a formation and away you go. No horribly complex tactics, no press conferences, no morale problems just basic game play as it used to be.

The only draw backs are the limiting nature of the PSP. You can load up to 4 leagues but with a reduced player set. It is quick to respond and consequently the seasons fly by.

So my recomendation for online_guru if you want to find your love for FM again look at FMH

This years game is going in the right direction and I can see what SI are trying to do with FM,

I shared the same frustrations as the original poster. I just think that the game has got too complicated for me to play in the limited spare time I have available. I tried the demo of 2009 and although I was impressed I realised that I just couldn't devote the time needed to make it fun.

I decided I would buy a PSP to give me something to play on in the small pockets of spare time I have. I originally bought Fifa 09 which kept me going for a while then I decided to give the FMH09 a go. It has rekindled my love of the game. You can buy players set a formation and away you go. No horribly complex tactics, no press conferences, no morale problems just basic game play as it used to be.

The only draw backs are the limiting nature of the PSP. You can load up to 4 leagues but with a reduced player set. It is quick to respond and consequently the seasons fly by.

So my recomendation for online_guru if you want to find your love for FM again look at FMH

Might be an idea for me aswell :-)

Celts1888 I agree with you on the direction they are going in with FM09 I just don't think I am that type of gamer anymore.

Mr Pink - make sure you are not just buying a psp to play it though as it costs a lot. I wanted a psp for other games as well.

This years game is going in the right direction and I can see what SI are trying to do with FM, I mean you need to change a game after a few years to add new features and things and it won`t be perfect in the beginning but you just have to stick with this game that we all love and as many of us have since the amiga days, the fact is if this game had stayed the same then im sure that there would not be as many people play the game as there is now, I can gaurantee this game will be as good as it has ever been over the next few years and you will look back and say SI did the right thing changing this game.

Its just going to take time to get used to the changes and also help SI make this game better by providing your feedback on here, if people that have played the game for the number of years that we have abandon this game then the game will suffer in the long term im sure just stick with it and help make it better.

i like that u just cant make a super tactic and win it all now. i been playing long time to and i encourage the increased difficulty, altough i get angry sometimes couse it feels like ai is cheating sometimes.

I'm pretty much the same as the original poster, 35 now and played since the Amiga days,have always loved it as have all my friends and brothers, Must admit I think 09 is the best one for a few years, but it seems to me the whole tactics and variables is ruining the game, I just don't get the tactics at all and the inconsistency of it all, when you look at the tactics forum there is a lot of conflicting info also, on one hand the guru's say give your tactics time to settle in and on the other hand they say change your tactics every so often because the AI cracks your tactic, but its difficult to build a team or a tactic because the performances on this version vary wildly from one week to the next, one week your on fire creating loads the next 75 mins have gone and you haven't created a thing. All the press conferences, Ass man stuff are all nice touches but pointless. What is the point in having scouts if they are going to come back with a report on a players CA and PA when the match engine will work on his attributes, so what do you do buy a winger with rubbish scout report because his CA is about 70 even though his pace crossing and dribbling are all above 15. I love CM/FM but I just don't have fun playing it now, I've had to resort to using someone elses tactics and even still I have that irritating Feb/Mar slump, thats 6 seasons in a row now. Another example as the tactics being terrible, in the last version I tried out various tactics of my own and they were all hopeless, tried Big D's 4-5-1 and suddenly unbeatable, I made 1 tweak to that team by putting the Att Mid up front but left his settings the same and sudennly terrible again, changed back and unbeatable again. If I was Eidos or whoever is making Championship manager these days I would be digging out old copies like CM 01/02 and having a look at what made that so good. I don't think there is any need for a 2D (never liked it) or 3D (really like this) pitch....... remember no-one ever thought a football game that read like an accountants spreadsheet would become a hit, maybe its time to go back and look at why that was so successfull

PS I don't think I'm too old for FM but my wife does, especially when she hears a long list of expletives from the kitchen when I concede yet another injury time goal

This years game is going in the right direction and I can see what SI are trying to do with FM, I mean you need to change a game after a few years to add new features and things and it won`t be perfect in the beginning but you just have to stick with this game that we all love and as many of us have since the amiga days, the fact is if this game had stayed the same then im sure that there would not be as many people play the game as there is now, I can gaurantee this game will be as good as it has ever been over the next few years and you will look back and say SI did the right thing changing this game.

Its just going to take time to get used to the changes and also help SI make this game better by providing your feedback on here, if people that have played the game for the number of years that we have abandon this game then the game will suffer in the long term im sure just stick with it and help make it better.

With great respect, I think you're wrong here.

The game isn't improved when the results of matches appear to be largely down to chance, which is what seems to be the case with FM '09.

However many extra features there may be, none of them compensate for a lottery of a match day, which is what we have at the moment. If it isn't possible to discern a sensible, logical relationship between what you do with your tactics and team talks and the ability of your players and the results of the matches, then that just makes for what is, bluntly, a bad game.

There are far too many variables making the whole thing cumbersome and unresponsive.

This is a game in desperate need of a total rethink. A game should be fun and this isn't, as it stands.