Hello SI, how about the option of just managing a match instead of a whole career?

Might have been suggested before, but my main gripe about FM is how difficult and time-consuming it can be to create and develop tactics within a game. A lot of the time I end up playing the same match over and over (by quitting without saving) to see what tactic works best in that particular match. This is not fun. What would be absolutely perfect for tactic creation would be the option of playing a single match, using any pick of players from the database you like, playing any opposition you like, home or away. Think this is possible?

edit: sorry, wishlist thread.. right =/

Seems pointless to me, rather have SI working on something good.

Wouldn't work, because creating a tactic that works requires you to have a knowledge of the team you are playing with, so essentially being able to pick the best players in the world to build a tactic won't work as they will win most games with almost any tactic anyway

As for quitting without saving when you lose a match, I have been pretty reserved about this as there have been several topics on this lately, but it is starting to get on my nerves, accept that you lost the match and move on, changing your tactics by keeping in mind where things went wrong for you to lose the game in the 1st place

Wouldn't work, because creating a tactic that works requires you to have a knowledge of the team you are playing with, so essentially being able to pick the best players in the world to build a tactic won't work as they will win most games with almost any tactic anyway

As for quitting without saving when you lose a match, I have been pretty reserved about this as there have been several topics on this lately, but it is starting to get on my nerves, accept that you lost the match and move on, changing your tactics by keeping in mind where things went wrong for you to lose the game in the 1st place

that's not why i'd like this sort of feature (although it could be quite fun..) you could use it to make yourself the underdog, the favourite, or make it fairly even, right? hell, if you picked two identical teams at a neutral venue, you would be focusing solely on tactics..

that's not why i'd like this sort of feature (although it could be quite fun..) you could use it to make yourself the underdog, the favourite, or make it fairly even, right? hell, if you picked two identical teams at a neutral venue, you would be focusing solely on tactics..

Yes but my point is, that these tactics would not work when you come to play a game, each savegame I play requires me to come up with a different tactic as different players of differing abilities at different levels of the game require different positions on the pitch and different mentalities and all sorts of changes

Put quite simply, this idea would not work, I'm sorry, I'm not trying to put you down, I like the fact that there are always new ideas springing up on the forums, but this does not seem like a good one

Yes but my point is, that these tactics would not work when you come to play a game, each savegame I play requires me to come up with a different tactic as different players of differing abilities at different levels of the game require different positions on the pitch and different mentalities and all sorts of changes

fair enough, i doubt it would ever happen anyway, but i do think if you could set the pitch condition, weather, team morale etc you could replicate most matches you would come across in a savegame.

all i can say is, almost every computer game i've ever played (albeit not that many) has a sort of "training" mode for the user, to help them get to grips with the game. i think an out-of-savegame tactic testing feature would be great.

fair enough, i doubt it would ever happen anyway, but i do think if you could set the pitch condition, weather, team morale etc you could replicate most matches you would come across in a savegame.

all i can say is, almost every computer game i've ever played (albeit not that many) has a sort of "training" mode for the user, to help them get to grips with the game. i think an out-of-savegame tactic testing feature would be great.

Essentially playing the game is the training mode for FM. It is meant to be a fairly long term thing, hence the reason you can play for hundreds of season in one save game if you so wish, therefore, you have plenty of time to mess about with things and get your settings right

No offence mate, I mean this in the most advice-like way possible, it helps greatly to have some patience with FM, quitting cuz you are losing a game will not get you anywhere, there is quite a steep learning curve with this game and 09 seems to have ramped it up a little further, just keep working on your tactics throughout the season and you will hit the mark eventually

I'm not great at the game I admit it.

Over the years I've had very little success, only a couple of cups and one or two promotions. But I can honestly say I've never gone back and played a game again by quitting without saving (Unless it crashed, lol).

If the game crashes and I previously won the game, I'll go all out for the win, trying to get 'my' points back. But if I lost the previous game I'll either skip it or play a weakened side.

A 'single match' option would be ok, but really you might as well start off with an 'easy' career such as Man Utd or Rangers or another dominant team, play some matches and learn the game, while maybe surprising yourself and getting some good results. If you get fired, you could just add a new manager back in that team, and use it solely as a 'learning save'.

A 'single match' option would be ok, but really you might as well start off with an 'easy' career such as Man Utd or Rangers or another dominant team, play some matches and learn the game, while maybe surprising yourself and getting some good results. If you get fired, you could just add a new manager back in that team, and use it solely as a 'learning save'.

That's not such a bad idea for your case actually greenplastic, it might help you to get your head around the tactical ins and outs of the game

hmm thanks for the comments, but i don't think i've explained myself well at all. the only times i quit the game while losing a match is if it's the first match since loading the savegame initally and i just think "**** it, i'm going to do something else". i'm also not completely tactically inept! i've done a fairly good job of getting qpr challenging for european places after 5 or 6 seasons on 09, but i usually struggle against better teams using tactics like the 4-5-1 (with DMC, AML & AMR), and since you don't come across a tactic like that too often, it's nearly impossible to find a "winning" way of playing against it by trial and error. now, if i could play against a strong man city-esque team using that 4-5-1 several times in a row, i could probably observe what really needs to be tweaked.

good suggestion i suppose about having a savegame just for testing tactics, but you still won't get the exact scenarious you want to be testing unless you use friendlies.. and these will probably have different outcomes to competitive matches.

hmm thanks for the comments, but i don't think i've explained myself well at all. the only times i quit the game while losing a match is if it's the first match since loading the savegame initally and i just think "**** it, i'm going to do something else". i'm also not completely tactically inept! i've done a fairly good job of getting qpr challenging for european places after 5 or 6 seasons on 09, but i usually struggle against better teams using tactics like the 4-5-1 (with DMC, AML & AMR), and since you don't come across a tactic like that too often, it's nearly impossible to find a "winning" way of playing against it by trial and error. now, if i could play against a strong man city-esque team using that 4-5-1 several times in a row, i could probably observe what really needs to be tweaked.

good suggestion i suppose about having a savegame just for testing tactics, but you still won't get the exact scenarious you want to be testing unless you use friendlies.. and these will probably have different outcomes to competitive matches.

You didn't explain yourself at all, you just came across as someone who was having trouble with tactics, which TBF, you are

It isn't "impossible to find a "winning" way of playing against it by trial and error", this is exactly how I and, AFAIK, a lot of other people who play the game, work out tactics, it can sometimes take as long as a season or 2 for me to finally find a "winning way", but it works and all it requires is some patience, some tinkering and a little bit of knowing how players attributes affect their game

I doubt if that will come in no point in doing just 1 match

Could make a caretaker manager option for taking a club for a set time only that you agree on at the start. Would serve as the same, you could have the choice of 1match 1 month 6month or Until further notice (in which if you become really good club offers perm deal) could even be a way too to build reputation if starting unemployed

A caretaker manager is generally already within the club ranks. A situation like Kinnear is a bit different as he already has extensive experience, and no club is going to hire a caretaker manager with no experience. The only way I can see a caretaker manager scenario working is if you start as an assistant and get a chance to prove yourself if the manager gets sacked, but I'm not sure I really see the point in that.

Don't see the point in only managing just a match. Or having a save game for testing your tactics. You mention it yourself already, that is why teams play friendlies. That is where you try out the tactics that suit you players (and not the other way around). It is not a guarantee that you will be successful, but that is like RL as well were teams play nice friendlies but struggle in the league.

A good way to learn the ropes is actually to manage a lower league team. It's much clearer what your players strengths and weaknesses are. If you manage top tier teams your players are good at everything (or so it might seem to a beginner) so the tactical side will be more difficult.

Once you start to understand why you are using a certain tactic (maybe to fit in with a specific player or two) then a lot more of it will start to cllick in place. Saving and reloading wont teach you anything, you will need to understand why you lost and hope to rectify it in future. That's my experience of it anyway.

Saving and reloading wont teach you anything, you will need to understand why you lost and hope to rectify it in future.

well playing the same match over and over seems like an efficient way of learning how to deal with however the opposition is playing.

let me make it clear, i don't play a match over and over until i scrape a 1-0 win, then carry on to the next match; i actually want to find how these tactics can be beaten. if, for example, only one team in the league plays this certain tricky formation, i'll only be able to try new tactics against it once every six months or so within a savegame, and the likelihood of stumbling across the right tactics to beat it is very very small.

well playing the same match over and over seems like an efficient way of learning how to deal with however the opposition is playing.

But it is never ever the same match (well maybe if you replay 1 Million times then maybe two games would be equal) since there are so many items wich are calculated by the ME.

It is like pdbravo mentioned

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdbravo

Saving and reloading wont teach you anything, you will need to understand why you lost and hope to rectify it in future.

Hi greenplastic,

As an experiment with Aston Villa, I'm also reloading games to see how tweaks influence the outcome of a match using various tactics that I've downloaded from the tactics section of this forum.

I've noticed that even minor changes to my tactics and/or OIs can have a massive effect on the outcome of my matches.

I'm finding this iteration of FM difficult to enjoy. I dare not take my finger off of the space bar or mouse button for fear of not reacting quickly enough to something on the pitch. I feel like I'm walking on eggshells with FM09. At least I could relax with FM08.

I also feel that I'm spending more time in the tactics forum reading guides and instructions for various tactics than actually playing the game. It's disheartening.

It's become too complex and intricate.

Cheers

A good way to learn the ropes is actually to manage a lower league team. It's much clearer what your players strengths and weaknesses are. If you manage top tier teams your players are good at everything (or so it might seem to a beginner) so the tactical side will be more difficult.

Once you start to understand why you are using a certain tactic (maybe to fit in with a specific player or two) then a lot more of it will start to cllick in place. Saving and reloading wont teach you anything, you will need to understand why you lost and hope to rectify it in future. That's my experience of it anyway.

I disagree. Replaying matches has taught me a lot about the intricacies of the ME. Without doing so I wouldn't have gleaned an understanding of how small changes to tactics/OIs/team-talks can influence the outcome of a match.

It's a great way of learning how your tactic influences the outcome of a match.

Cheers

I really don't see the point of managing a team for one game. Maybe becoming temp manager (say for a set period as happens in the game IRL) to see if you do good enough then they may appoint you as full time manaer but not for just one game. Joe Kinnear & Ricky Sbragia case in point where they took over Newcastle & Sunderland for a short period, Done wel then got the job though not sure about Joe Kinnear whether he has the Newcastle job full time or is still in a temp position.

I would definetly like the option to manage a team for just one match or create small tournaments as well.

I really don't see the point of managing a team for one game. Maybe becoming temp manager (say for a set period as happens in the game IRL) to see if you do good enough then they may appoint you as full time manaer but not for just one game. Joe Kinnear & Ricky Sbragia case in point where they took over Newcastle & Sunderland for a short period, Done wel then got the job though not sure about Joe Kinnear whether he has the Newcastle job full time or is still in a temp position.

:confused:

i don't want to test if i'm good enough. i want to test certain tactics against the AI- to see how effective they are- without having to wait for the matches to come up in a savegame.

:confused:

i don't want to test if i'm good enough. i want to test certain tactics against the AI- to see how effective they are- without having to wait for the matches to come up in a savegame.

Well taking over a club just for one game will not test tactics the way you want them to then. :confused:

wouldnt be a fan about this

im a caeer game player

the rewards for me are signing bargains and getting little teams promoted

Well taking over a club just for one game will not test tactics the way you want them to then. :confused:

not what i meant.

i would like the option to choose my team and the opponents team/formation (obviously letting the AI make tactical decisions) and be able to play that match any number of times, so i wouldn't have to load a savegame and arrange loads of friendlies or replay a particular match over and over by quitting without saving then reloading.

I've noticed that even minor changes to my tactics and/or OIs can have a massive effect on the outcome of my matches.

exactly! and what are the chances of you stumbling upon the perfect tactics to use against chelsea or united when you only play them twice in a season?!

wouldnt be a fan about this

im a caeer game player

the rewards for me are signing bargains and getting little teams promoted

same. but i usually download other people's tactics to help me do this, otherwise i spend half the season experimenting with tactics, a large majority of which won't work!

also, i think it's important to say that a "trial and error" way of getting the right tactic within your savegame does not add any realism to your experience. the sliders and settings can't be perfected by common sense or footballing knowledge; instead, they require you to learn how the match engine / AI manager works.

does a real manager spend the first half of his season experimenting with closing down, mentality and creative freedom settings until he finds something that works? no.

getting the right tactic on FM is about getting to know the match engine, and i think my suggestion would be the most convenient way of doing this!

good points, i just dont know how many people would bother with it really

there are other things id like to see SI fixing and tinkering before they did something like this

maybe one for the future, in conjunction with some sort of tutorial for new players - if i was new too fm, in its current state id be a bit perplexed; a one off match tutorial type thing might be good for keeping new players playing

It would be good to have the choice, but you can essentially do it in the game any way. Just set up a practice season instead. Don't worry about the results, just focus on trying out different tactics.

this would be an alright option, on the main menu- a one off exhibition match.

however match results are influenced by many things eg morale, form, chemistry etc.