How to avoid future bugs

Why dont we as consumers for a product refrain from purchasing the next release until after the first to patches are released on any future versions, This may mean SI will improve their testing for future versions of the game. This would work as a near finished game would have to be released before any revenue is generated.

The upshot of this would be that although we would have to wait longer to play the game, but when we do it would no mean staring again to make full use of any patches.

This will only work if SI think that this action will be taken by the majority of people who purchase the game.

It won't work.

... yawn ...

If you read the sticky at the top for Beta testers you will see taht SI are trying to improve there testing even more. And to sound like a broken record you will never pick up every bug in testing no matter how many testers you have. There are pleanty of exsisting threads on this subject please try a search in future.

not really going to happen

Im know every bug wont be fixed but 1000s in a release are a bit much, it will work if consumers combine and use purchasing power. Can anybody say they were happy with the release version of the game.

It really won't work Vegy. It has never, and will never, be an option to boycott a popular product - are you aware how many people buy FM each year? Even if the whole forum community didn't buy it, it would still be a success.

The best you can do is help the development by applying to be a beta tester and logging bugs in the bugs forum with evidence.

Im know every bug wont be fixed but 1000s in a release are a bit much, it will work if consumers combine and use purchasing power. Can anybody say they were happy with the release version of the game.

Thousands of bugs is a bit over the top isn't it? There were 3 major bugs that I could think of, injuries, internationals players being away for too long and the Serie C crash bug, the second 2 should have been picked up straight away, the injuries I can understand to extent being missed.

All those people who are as upset as you will do that. All those people who enjoy the game will buy it

Thats why its no 1 in the ELSPA PC charts

How about a different approach. You log your bugs on the bugs forum so that there is an improved chance of thiese issues getting fixed for the 9.3 patch.

Just out of interest do you use Windows XP or Vista on your PC or are you still on Windows 3.1 waiting for microsft to fix the bugs in subsequent versions

Thousands of bugs is a bit over the top isn't it? There were 3 major bugs that I could think of, injuries, internationals players being away for too long and the Serie C crash bug, the second 2 should have been picked up straight away, the injuries I can understand to extent being missed.

The serie C crash bug has been fixed mate

Yeah I agree, but it irkes a little that I pay £30 for a game that has(well documented) flaws in that has to be patched so soon after release to the extent that this one has. I have played the game for 15 years or so. So I have been with this game from the early days. I accept that the game is more complex than ever. It is the little things that annoy, like being unable to relay the pitch when it is very poor, thus effecting the why my team plays at home etc. I know that they may be addressing the testing issue for the next patch.

Can people remember when the engine was used for a few years with a change of skin and data updates. There seemed to be less problems then

The injuries issue is actually not deemed to be an issue but reflective of current injuries irl

Thousands of bugs is a bit over the top isn't it? There were 3 major bugs that I could think of, injuries, internationals players being away for too long and the Serie C crash bug, the second 2 should have been picked up straight away, the injuries I can understand to extent being missed.

Yeah I agree, but it irkes a little that I pay £30 for a game that has(well documented) flaws in that has to be patched so soon after release to the extent that this one has. I have played the game for 15 years or so. So I have been with this game from the early days. I accept that the game is more complex than ever. It is the little things that annoy, like being unable to relay the pitch when it is very poor, thus effecting the why my team plays at home etc. I know that they may be addressing the testing issue for the next patch.

Can people remember when the engine was used for a few years with a change of skin and data updates. There seemed to be less problems then

Vegy - If you want to do something positive ask to sign up as a beta tester for patch 9.3

I've not yet seen you detail a specific issue you are unhappy with. Its easy to jump on a bandwagon. It takes effort to detail an issue.

I dont mean to be funny but if you really want to do something positive which will benefit you then apply to beta test.

If not then don't buy FM10 until the third patch has been release.

In terms of your OP, there may be a few who agree with you but believe me you'll be in a very small minority

If there are only 3 bugs the why the huge list of fixes on the patch releases?. I would be extremly happy if there were only 3 bugs.

I use Vista, Not by choice as If you dont keep up with current windows you will not have the choice of with programmes you wish to run or not. So I dont see that as a relevant question. As there is not a real alternative to the monopoly that is microsoft, but thats a different issue. There are however alternative games ( which people will say are not as good, but they are alternative).

Yeah I agree, but it irkes a little that I pay £30 for a game that has(well documented) flaws in that has to be patched so soon after release to the extent that this one has. I have played the game for 15 years or so. So I have been with this game from the early days. I accept that the game is more complex than ever. It is the little things that annoy, like being unable to relay the pitch when it is very poor, thus effecting the why my team plays at home etc. I know that they may be addressing the testing issue for the next patch.

Can people remember when the engine was used for a few years with a change of skin and data updates. There seemed to be less problems then

You have the same concerns that unfortunately have been raised so many times on these forums that a lot of us have heard it all before.

The pitch quality is cosmetic, other than matches being delayed it doesn't affect the matchday game.

I'm not just jumping on the bandwagon the flaws and bugs are already well documented, There is a section on the forum full of these. I dont see how repeating them helps also just read the fix list. I doubt I would be accepted as a Beta tester because of my views. They will want people who think the game is great.

Of course its a valid point. You are saying boycott software to ensure its bug free. I'm saying why are you not applying your beliefs for Microsoft products

We know there are more than 3 bugs in FM09

I'm suggesting that you have an opportunity to reduce them by either logging what you've found or applying to be a beta tester.

If you are just complaining without doing anything and suggesting people boycott buying the game you will not get a favourable response here.

If you are true to your beliefs then carry on and boycott FM10. However as I mentioned above, I very much doubt anyone will notice

What you choose to do next is up to you.....

I'm not just jumping on the bandwagon the flaws and bugs are already well documented, There is a section on the forum full of these. I dont see how repeating them helps also just read the fix list. I doubt I would be accepted as a Beta tester because of my views. They will want people who think the game is great.

They dont take on beta testers who think the game is great, that would defeat the object wouldn't it??

Some of the games biggest critics have become good beta testers. these are people who are prepared to pu in a bit of effort to improve the product

They want people who can find bugs and be able to detail these and upload save games / pkms.

im not saying I expect a bug free release Im just dissapointed with the amount there have been, The Pitch was just an example as I have already said unfortunatly I wouldnt have a PC to run any new applications on if I applied this philosoply to Microsoft. However when the time comes I will be looking at the option of a MAC.

Also I wont be accepted as a beta tester as my posts have been negative ( which is my opinion) and I have little history.

I am dissapointed more because I can see how great this game could have been. I hope that they keep this format and iron out the bugs and provide minor improvements next year along with updated database. If the game works I would consider buying it.

Vegy

1. Apply to be a beta tester, nothing ventured, nothing gained. Lots of so called negative posters have become beta testers. We all want a bug free game, we know this is impossible but if we help to elimante the biggest / worst then we end up with a game thats playable. I think it is now

2. If you have found issues, search the bugs forum and log those not already raised

3. If you have some good ideas log them also. Dont expect to necessarily get an SI reply but someone will read them. Also dont get upset if some posters don't like your ideas

4. Have you installed patch 9.2 - You'll see massive change with this

Vegy

1. Apply to be a beta tester, nothing ventured, nothing gained. Lots of so called negative posters have become beta testers. We all want a bug free game, we know this is impossible but if we help to elimante the biggest / worst then we end up with a game thats playable. I think it is now

2. If you have found issues, search the bugs forum and log those not already raised

3. If you have some good ideas log them also. Dont expect to necessarily get an SI reply but someone will read them. Also dont get upset if some posters don't like your ideas

4. Have you installed patch 9.2 - You'll see massive change with this

1 I would apply, but I am having internet probs at home. ( At bros at minute)

2 As above

3 I will post

4 Not yet have download from here and will put it in.

5 I would have rather waited a month for the game and people been more involved with the testing before release then this game could have reached its potential and would have been the best in the series. I just hope that the commitment to testing by using people that play the game is continued as this will identify common problems encounted more quickly and hopefully resolve before they detrack from a great name in football management games.

The serie C crash bug has been fixed mate

He said from the released version.

As far as I'm aware the 3 I mentioned have all been fixed, tho the injuries in Brazil are being looked at by PaulC.

what you say is good on paper and would work but its not going to happen

How do I avoid future bugs? Keep a clean house, don't give the "scoshi chingos" anything to eat...

Seriously, you'll never, EVER avoid bugs. Even "obvious" ones. The only thing you, the customer, can do is not buy the product again if you're not happy with it. If we have a nuclear war, cockroaches will inherit the earth. Thus, the bugs will be there, whether you are or not.

... yawn ...

Stop trolling please.

1 I would apply, but I am having internet probs at home. ( At bros at minute)

2 As above

3 I will post

4 Not yet have download from here and will put it in.

5 I would have rather waited a month for the game and people been more involved with the testing before release then this game could have reached its potential and would have been the best in the series. I just hope that the commitment to testing by using people that play the game is continued as this will identify common problems encounted more quickly and hopefully resolve before they detrack from a great name in football management games.

You can post on the forum then you can log a post to apply for a beta tester Its that easy

If you haven't got the latest patch then you will see massive improvement

what you say is good on paper and would work but its not going to happen

It will not work because too many people DO think the game is good. Check which game leads the PC sales chart

Do not think OP idea would work - I think the consumers point out a ton of bugs that went through/were waived. SI would fix some things but release three patches? doubt it. They'd wait for people to buy the game and report problems (including those they have not seen).

Pointless.

NO piece of software is ever bug free (admit that this year it was really worse)

And no good idea, will not work.

NO piece of software is ever bug free (admit that this year it was really worse)

And no good idea, will not work.

I have not said I want a bug free game, you have agreed that this year has been particulary bad. Have you read the thread or just the title, which was used to get people to debate not just comment on the title. Do you read newspaper articles or just headlines?.

I think more testing on SIs part could have cut the number of bugs to an acceptable level. It seems that we are paying for the previlage to test the game for Si for three months, before we get an acceptable version. Ok I may see a vast improvement when I install patch 2. I think an acceptable version should be available after patch 1, with any further patches making the game great, not just acceptable.

And SI are doing something about it.

Do not think OP idea would work - I think the consumers point out a ton of bugs that went through/were waived. SI would fix some things but release three patches? doubt it. They'd wait for people to buy the game and report problems (including those they have not seen).

Pointless.

I have not said I want a bug free game, you have agreed that this year has been particulary bad. Have you read the thread or just the title, which was used to get people to debate not just comment on the title. Do you read newspaper articles or just headlines?.

I think more testing on SIs part could have cut the number of bugs to an acceptable level. It seems that we are paying for the previlage to test the game for Si for three months, before we get an acceptable version. Ok I may see a vast improvement when I install patch 2. I think an acceptable version should be available after patch 1, with any further patches making the game great, not just acceptable.

Vegy - have you applied to be a beta tester yet? It takes just a post

5 I would have rather waited a month for the game and people been more involved with the testing before release then this game could have reached its potential and would have been the best in the series. I just hope that the commitment to testing by using people that play the game is continued as this will identify common problems encounted more quickly and hopefully resolve before they detrack from a great name in football management games.

I think that's the difference. Whereas you would rather wait for a month to play the game most people are practically banging on SI's door to have it released. Either way you get the same result anyway; on the one hand you don't play FM09 for a month and get the patched up version of the game, on the other hand you play FM09 for a month and still end up with the patched version of the game.

The only problem with the latter is that many of the issues fixed in the second patch were found by forum members. If they delay the release there may be less issues, but there are many things that will not have been found and fixed that would have been if the game was released on time.

Why dont we as consumers for a product refrain from purchasing the next release until after the first to patches are released on any future versions, This may mean SI will improve their testing for future versions of the game. This would work as a near finished game would have to be released before any revenue is generated.

The upshot of this would be that although we would have to wait longer to play the game, but when we do it would no mean staring again to make full use of any patches.

This will only work if SI think that this action will be taken by the majority of people who purchase the game.

the game was playable without a patch. once i managed to authenticate the game (but thats another issue). also refraining from buying the game until the first patch is released wouldn't work.

the whole reason that extra bugs are found is because of the sheer number of people with the sheer number of different hardware/software setups that are playing the game.

This year has been the worst year, I know SI are doing something about it. After the game has been out for 3 months. I am talking about the next release and the one after that. We are paying to be testers for SI at least have them expended some money doing a decent level of testing first. People will say they have but why has there been more problems this year than any other.

Mr Pompey,

Yes I have. I would rather try to help than criticse but hey got to express your op somewhere. I wont be holding my breath though.

I'm saying SI are doing something about it by recruiting more Beta testers for the next release. They are fully aware of how the launch has gone this year. SI and Sega are big enough companies to know what's going on with their product.

Every edition of FM has had bugs in on release, I wouldn't say that FM09 was the worst by any stretch, if you had been around for CM4 this looks like a walk in the park.

Why don't you just not buy the game until after it's fully patched? That serves the same purpose as what you're asking, you'd rather they took longer to release the game by doing additional testing than ironing out bugs after initial release - honestly there is no business sense there at all.

The game continually sells well, if consumer confidence was so low sales would go down, but they aren't.

This year has been the worst year

I disagree. The only thing that makes this year look worse were the activation issues, which would not have changed had more testing of the game been done.

On release FM08 had more serious issues in it than '09 imo. The problem with '09 is that both patches either haven't fixed enough issues, or have created new ones. Again this wouldn't have changed with more testing of the game before the initial release.

Add to that the fact that you can see so many more issues now that you have 3D and it's easy to see why this release looks more problematic when in fact it's pretty much no different.

i did read about another resently released game where some of the activation codes actually had the last character missing off the end!!

it meant that at the most they had to enter the code in about 36 times

Mr Pompey,

Yes I have. I would rather try to help than criticse but hey got to express your op somewhere. I wont be holding my breath though.

Excellent

If you are not successful this time then do try again for FM10

Expressing an opinion - Of course thats good, I'm expressing an opinion on your post which I assume is what you want

Believe me there are plenty of beta testers who have expressed negative opinions

Additionally if you are logging informative posts about bugs then this will aid your selection

At the risk of being pushy have you downloaded and installed patch 9.20? As I mentioned earlier you will see a big difference

MrPompey

I have downloaded the patch, hope it is a fix as you say. Yes I welcome debate, I dont want to rant. Not the best title but it has seemed to get people to talk and in the most in a sensible an enlightend way. Which I guess is the purpose for the forum. I have learnt some things and I hope that people dont just think Im trying to cause trouble. I realise the game sells well, but hey so did Bewitched for a time. I hope that by expressing my Op. that Sega SI will have there house in order next Year. If people dont comment then things wont change. I expect that next years realise will be smoother all round. However I will be keeping my hard earned in my pocket till I read a bit on the forum and I will make a decision from there. I would happily test before next years game came out, but I am unwilling to pay £30 for the privelige.

Vegy, you have not come across as trying to cause trouble. Constructive criticism and the debate that follows it are not only welcomed but needed for the game to improve.

Anyone who can also take on board other peoples arguments as you have done get a thumbs up from me.