to many really good regens? or just rubbish scouts

i've noticed there are loads of good regens. or at least from the outset they look.

as liverpool, first bunch of youth players i had a 16 year old keeper with 5 stars for potential, a defender with 5 stars for potential an AM/FC with 5 stars for potential.

my scouts have also found another 2 16 year old regen keepers with 6 stars and 5 stars.

now i understand that scouts/coaches dont always get their ratings right. but can they be that bad that they absolutely rave about someone and then that player turns out rubbish?

becuase either thats whats happening or there seem to be alot of really good regens.

their stats are pretty good as well.

way way way too many good regens, in our online game 4th season human teams are just flooded with regen superstars, our game started before 9.2 though so hopefully it got patched but i didn't see anything in the release notes :S

i haven't downloaded the latest patch (just got the first patch) so maybe as you say, it will be better.

Having high potential doesn't mean they'll reach it, most of the time they don't fully realise it.

There are quite a few that pop up well developed for small-ish (footballing wise) nations though. On my Premiership game I picked up a Paraguayan an Iranian and two Turkish players who are all world-class at 20-21 in 2011, and there are others that I couldn't get.

I'm not complaining though, makes the game more enjoyable, and I couldn't get them on the cheap. Although some seem to go for free as soon as they appear which I think should be looked into.

I dont know what their potential is, they already start with immense stats so im guessing they are only going to get better and better.

It doesn't really make our game more enjoyable sadly, we would have been better starting with non real players to be honest but it's hard to resist signing players that look so good and cost so little

FM08 didn't have enough but FM09 has way too many imo.

There´s too many regens and newgens with too high stats, CA, and (probably) PA, yes. Just take a look in any national U21-team around summer 2009, and I bet you´ll find at least five newgens aged 15-17 in it.

its better than there being none like 2008

its better than there being none like 2008

For me, the regens in FM09 kill the gameplay as much as they did in FM08.

regens drain my life

I prefer the new regen system where you actually do get Ronaldo, Fabregas and Messi type players who are good enough to play in top teams while still aged under 20. In FM08 long term games were ruined by the fact that no player younger than 24 was any good in the end.

There is a problem with teams seemingly releasing good players far too easily, but wonderkids do need to be generated in the game and so far for me there don't seem to be an unusually high number.

As a test someone should check the database at the start of the game and see how many 150+ CA players there are that are younger than 20. Then do the same after 5 years and then 10 years to compare the figures to the starting database. If there are more 150+ CA youngsters after 10 years then you definitely have a point. I'd do this myself but as I said it's not affecting my game and I cba

I see lots of great younsters too.

In my 2nd year (that's just how far I got so far) I have found around 30 leading EPL potential younsters worldwide (by scouting every available U19 comp and by just filtering by age and scouting the most expensive). That seems a bloody lot. But... that's the figures worldwide. Even if a third came to or from EPL, that's just 10 a year with the potential (!) to become a leading EPL player. That sounds about right to me.

However, I noticed that, without exception, all 30 were one-footed only which means they will have higher attributes than two-footed (or at least 1.5-footed) players. That's something with which I have a problem.

I'd rather they be too good than too bad like 08.

I guess some people are never happy though.

I'd rather they be too good than too bad like 08.

I guess some people are never happy though.

What an odd thing to say. You mean, if you are happy everyone should be happy?

Again, for me FM09 is just as bad as FM08 was.

Again I'd recommend someone who thinks this is a bug does a proper test then we'll know if it actually is an issue or not. SI may then take it more seriously and if it is an issue fix it. It should be easy to do what I outlined above using Genie Scout or some similar programme.

In fact, if someone posts the stats from the start of the game I'll grab ones from my 2014 game to compare.

What an odd thing to say. You mean, if you are happy everyone should be happy?

Again, for me FM09 is just as bad as FM08 was.

No. I'm saying that unless it's perfect people won't be happy. I like the fact there are too many good regens as I now have a wider choice to pick from.

It's not perfect but by no means is it as bad as the crap regens in 08 IMO.

I find it odd you think 09 is as bad as 08 for regens.

Over the holidays, I ran a test using the latest version of Genie Scout, to compare various hidden and non-hidden attributes of players in season 1 and season 30-odd (when all players are regens).

I'll post up a proper summary of what I found, but one of the main findings is that in season 30+, there was a much higher proportion of under-18s with Current Ability over 100, or so. As a result, most attributes were also higher amongst the under-18s in season 30+.

As I said, I intend to post up the results properly, but my feeling is that the regens are a little bit too good this time around - and that, overall, their starting ability is probably set a bit too high.

Again I'd recommend someone who thinks this is a bug does a proper test then we'll know if it actually is an issue or not. SI may then take it more seriously and if it is an issue fix it. It should be easy to do what I outlined above using Genie Scout or some similar programme.

In fact, if someone posts the stats from the start of the game I'll grab ones from my 2014 game to compare.

I've seen a thraed about this a while back. Someone from SI posted some results after a soak test. Generally ther are better players CA PA wise at the start of the game than when all the regens kick in.

Can't remeber the actual percentage but ther wasn't a huge difference.

Over the holidays, I ran a test using the latest version of Genie Scout, to compare various hidden and non-hidden attributes of players in season 1 and season 30-odd (when all players are regens).

I'll post up a proper summary of what I found, but one of the main findings is that in season 30+, there was a much higher proportion of under-18s with Current Ability over 100, or so. As a result, most attributes were also higher amongst the under-18s in season 30+.

As I said, I intend to post up the results properly, but my feeling is that the regens are a little bit too good this time around - and that, overall, their starting ability is probably set a bit too high.

I'll also post up the Excel files which contain all the exported data, from 2008 and 20-whatever-it-was, so people are free to do their own analysis.

I've seen a thraed about this a while back. Someone from SI posted some results after a soak test. Generally ther are better players CA PA wise at the start of the game than when all the regens kick in.

Can't remeber the actual percentage but ther wasn't a huge difference.

I'd be interested to see that thread, digsy, if you can find a link to it.

There´s too many regens and newgens with too high stats, CA, and (probably) PA, yes. Just take a look in any national U21-team around summer 2009, and I bet you´ll find at least five newgens aged 15-17 in it.

Lol. Still no matter how good they are, you dont see any Wayne Rooneys or Agueros in FM09. TBH even if FM09 isnt perfect newgen/regen-wise its at least better than FM08 where they were awful.

If you used FMM to "clone" some of initial players with 150-160 CA you would kick all of FM08 180 CA regens asses. They not only took long to develop but even with maximum CA they were still rather weak...

In FM2009, the problem with regens is that, at least 95% of them, are single-footed. At least the good ones. Everytime I see a report for a good regen, I check and it's always single-footed. It's so obvious I don't understand why this occurs. I mean, is this working as intended (by SI)? If not, was it not detect? If it was not detected, is this now being looked into?

As far as I can remember, it was not like this in FM08. There was a better proportion of single and dual-foot regens.

Over the holidays, I ran a test using the latest version of Genie Scout, to compare various hidden and non-hidden attributes of players in season 1 and season 30-odd (when all players are regens).

I'll post up a proper summary of what I found, but one of the main findings is that in season 30+, there was a much higher proportion of under-18s with Current Ability over 100, or so. As a result, most attributes were also higher amongst the under-18s in season 30+.

As I said, I intend to post up the results properly, but my feeling is that the regens are a little bit too good this time around - and that, overall, their starting ability is probably set a bit too high.

This is the kind of thing I'm talking about, it would be interesting to see the results of this, as well as the thread Digsey mentioned.

In FM2009, the problem with regens is that, at least 95% of them, are single-footed. At least the good ones. Everytime I see a report for a good regen, I check and it's always single-footed. It's so obvious I don't understand why this occurs. I mean, is this working as intended (by SI)? If not, was it not detect? If it was not detected, is this now being looked into?

As far as I can remember, it was not like this in FM08. There was a better proportion of single and dual-foot regens.

Footedness was another thing I looked at. Suffice to say, there's a much higher proportion of players in season 30-odd with 0-5 for their weaker foot ability.

There's nothing wrong with the regens this time around. They are more or less spot on this time around. I've actually seen regens being capable of beating their contemporaries for a position in first team squads.

Can people stop complaining about change...

There's nothing wrong with the regens this time around. They are more or less spot on this time around. I've actually seen regens being capable of beating their contemporaries for a position in first team squads.

Can people stop complaining about change...

Clearly there is something wrong with them as people are complaining about it. Can you stop telling people not to complain...

What's the difference between a newgen and a regen?

No. I'm saying that unless it's perfect people won't be happy. I like the fact there are too many good regens as I now have a wider choice to pick from.

It's not perfect but by no means is it as bad as the crap regens in 08 IMO.

I find it odd you think 09 is as bad as 08 for regens.

And that is the problem. Everybody is so damn happy they have a sea of newgens and regens to pick from, and nobody gives a rats behind about the realism.

There´s an army of researchers who have spent several hours adding real life talents to this game. I have spent several hours myself adding a lot of real life talents. It feels like a slap to the face when I see all these talents drown in a flood of 15 year old newgens with remakable good attributes. I don´t mind good regens, but when newgens turn up in the national U19:s and U21:s from the start of the game (or one year into the game, for that matter) instead of the real players, something is wrong.

So: Newgens are too good, which in my opinion makes the situation for FM09 as bad as for FM08. If you add the fact that no clubs in FM09 ever buy talented players to put in the U-teams, and the fact the clubs free transfers potential superstars (be it regens of real life talents), I'd even go so far and say FM09 is unplayable. For me.

And again, I don´t mind good regens, but keep them away from the national youth teams for the first three years.

I personally don't think its the CA and PA that's the problem. It's the one footedness of all the players. As they are all either left only or right only, this increases there attributes so that they look like superstars.

There was a thread a while back about where people were complaining that Elano had better attributes than Cristiano Ronaldo and in that thread it was said that this was because Elano is more one footed than Ronaldo. There is definitely a problem with the number of either footedness players which i hope they sort out in the next patch. It wont be until this is fixed that we can really properly compare them to previous years but they are definitely an improvement from last year.

Clearly there is something wrong with them as people are complaining about it. Can you stop telling people not to complain...

False assumption and poor science! I may have a better look at it all, but it seems to be a good number to me, it just seems yet again that people have recieved a culture shock when the numbers change, again because people over react about everything. Last year there were too few good regens, but it wasn't as barren as people say. Then this year it's back to where it should be, but people who were used to last years regens see this as a massive change that they can't handle. Seriously, there's really nothing wrong with it all. After 6 years, my top of the world side has a total of 4 regens starting on a regular basis and another one who gets the odd game (regular is more than 1 in 3 games to me in truth). That 6 years and a selection of the best the world has to offer. My very best side right now has 2 regens in it. One is 19 (wonderkid) and the other is 24 (I couldn't afford any other centerhalves, but he's grown into his role... Slowly). Looking elsewhere I can't find this "flood" of amazing world destroying talent people are going on about. There's some okay regens, but for every great regen there are still many times more better real players. Oh well... Let's see the game have another backflip when the new game comes out... Fuzzy Logic and Panic always drive what happens in the developement of the new versions.

There is a guy is the challenges forum who is currently running a holiday game to see if regens are too good or not.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=87448

False assumption and poor science! I may have a better look at it all, but it seems to be a good number to me, it just seems yet again that people have recieved a culture shock when the numbers change, again because people over react about everything. Last year there were too few good regens, but it wasn't as barren as people say. Then this year it's back to where it should be, but people who were used to last years regens see this as a massive change that they can't handle. Seriously, there's really nothing wrong with it all. After 6 years, my top of the world side has a total of 4 regens starting on a regular basis and another one who gets the odd game (regular is more than 1 in 3 games to me in truth). That 6 years and a selection of the best the world has to offer. My very best side right now has 2 regens in it. One is 19 (wonderkid) and the other is 24 (I couldn't afford any other centerhalves, but he's grown into his role... Slowly). Looking elsewhere I can't find this "flood" of amazing world destroying talent people are going on about. There's some okay regens, but for every great regen there are still many times more better real players. Oh well... Let's see the game have another backflip when the new game comes out... Fuzzy Logic and Panic always drive what happens in the developement of the new versions.

I'd say that aptly describes your post. You have no data to back up anything you state other than some superficial observations over a 6 year period in your game. The only way to really know how the regens are looking is to load up the game in Genie and compare the future seasons to what things look like in the beginning.

I have seen quite a few wonder-regens come out of nowhere

Here you go, guys. As mentioned earlier, some summary findings and a link to an Excel file with the data: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=89028

Here you go, guys. As mentioned earlier, some summary findings and a link to an Excel file with the data: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=89028

Good work.

It does show that the single-foot issue is not just an illusion.

And that is the problem. Everybody is so damn happy they have a sea of newgens and regens to pick from, and nobody gives a rats behind about the realism.

There´s an army of researchers who have spent several hours adding real life talents to this game. I have spent several hours myself adding a lot of real life talents. It feels like a slap to the face when I see all these talents drown in a flood of 15 year old newgens with remakable good attributes. I don´t mind good regens, but when newgens turn up in the national U19:s and U21:s from the start of the game (or one year into the game, for that matter) instead of the real players, something is wrong.

So: Newgens are too good, which in my opinion makes the situation for FM09 as bad as for FM08. If you add the fact that no clubs in FM09 ever buy talented players to put in the U-teams, and the fact the clubs free transfers potential superstars (be it regens of real life talents), I'd even go so far and say FM09 is unplayable. For me.

And again, I don´t mind good regens, but keep them away from the national youth teams for the first three years.

I'd suggest you've got far more problems than a few computer-generated 'footballers' if you're actually offended by the quality of newgens in FM09.

the single foot issue has to be fixed if regen system is to be more successful. :/

I'd suggest you've got far more problems than a few computer-generated 'footballers' if you're actually offended by the quality of newgens in FM09.

"Offended"? I don´t want to see 15-17 year old newgens in the national teams from the start of the game, as it a) ruins the realism, and b) keep real players out of the game.

Why not just shut up if you haven´t got anything constructive to say?

I'd rather they be too good than too bad like 08.

I guess some people are never happy though.

personally i would prefer too few. (obviously its best if its just right though) than too many. too many and you can just pick up these youngsters for hardly any money and youve got a world beating team in a few years time.

at least if there aren't many then you have to really scour the market and work hard for your top youth players like in real life.

People complain there is too many good regens...then complaing there is not enough, then complain there is too many now.

Cant please everyone.

In my game there was 10-15 good regens in a 2-4 season period, now im struggling to find them, hopefully next season or the 1 after, I can find more. Later in the game it seems they even themselves out so theres not too many or not enough. So i have no complaints

I'm 13 seasons into my game and there are a high number of new players with high potential but I can tell you, through bitter experience, that very few of them make it through into my first team.

Also, I'm finding that a large proportion of the real top quality regens are MCs or DMCs. At least 8 out of the 10 best youngsters in the world are MCs.

And that is the problem. Everybody is so damn happy they have a sea of newgens and regens to pick from, and nobody gives a rats behind about the realism.

There´s an army of researchers who have spent several hours adding real life talents to this game. I have spent several hours myself adding a lot of real life talents. It feels like a slap to the face when I see all these talents drown in a flood of 15 year old newgens with remakable good attributes. I don´t mind good regens, but when newgens turn up in the national U19:s and U21:s from the start of the game (or one year into the game, for that matter) instead of the real players, something is wrong.

So: Newgens are too good, which in my opinion makes the situation for FM09 as bad as for FM08. If you add the fact that no clubs in FM09 ever buy talented players to put in the U-teams, and the fact the clubs free transfers potential superstars (be it regens of real life talents), I'd even go so far and say FM09 is unplayable. For me.

And again, I don´t mind good regens, but keep them away from the national youth teams for the first three years.

And that there lies the problem with this, I'm all for realism mate but there has to be a balance, there are numerous examples of stuff hapening in real life that doesn't in the game so it's never gonna be ''real enough'' which is why this edition is better than 08 simply for the fact that you can now play a long-term game without worrying about the lack of talent coming through the game.

TBH I tend to forget about the realism aspect whem I'm in year 2034, I'd rather be enjoying the game, which with the newgens, I now can whereas in 08 I simply couldn't.

People complain there is too many good regens...then complaing there is not enough, then complain there is too many now.

Cant please everyone.

In my game there was 10-15 good regens in a 2-4 season period, now im struggling to find them, hopefully next season or the 1 after, I can find more. Later in the game it seems they even themselves out so theres not too many or not enough. So i have no complaints

that sounds promising.

i do accept that because of the slightly random nature of the game that one save can have loads and then next hardly any and then the next fine.

it wouldn't be good if they hard coded it so that you got a specific number of top quality regens each month.

i dont really have any long term information as i've only just got to december of the second season but thought i'd come on here and see what other peoples impressions are.

Am happy with it, it keeps the game interesting troughout the years to come and it makes it possible to create a real badarse team with not a lot of money. SI did something with the feedback of the past years, and now its seems that its not good enough again, shame.

Nah, have to agree that this is the best version to date.

Also you have to remeber each new generation brings a different quality of regen, it's quite random who turns up in the DB.

Also you have to remeber each new generation brings a different quality of regen, it's quite random who turns up in the DB.

relative randomness is good. i'm wondering whether its weighted too much to the top quality regens though. but id like to hear what others think about the situation.

there's bound to be people who are 10+ years into their game.

relative randomness is good. i'm wondering whether its weighted too much to the top quality regens though. but id like to hear what others think about the situation.

there's bound to be people who are 10+ years into their game.

I'm 9 years into mine.

Rubbish scouts

people complained last year about regens

even i complained last year bout regens but this year there changed and people still cmplain

its much more fun for me anyway and you can do a wenger

I think it's a bit of a problem. It's better than the complete lack of quality in 08 but going too far in the other direction isn't really going to work either. It takes the edge off looking for talent and discovering gems because it doesn't feel like losing any player is a blow as you can always replace them with a regen of ridiculous quality.

I don't know if it's selective memory, but as much as I can recall there weren't such problems in 07. The trouble in this game was that scouts were flawless but the regen quality seemed spot on, finding a brilliant young player felt really good and holding on to your stars was necessary as it wasn't that simple to replace them immediately. Plus big teams were always signing good regens so they remained competitive.

People complain there is too many good regens...then complaing there is not enough, then complain there is too many now.

Cant please everyone.

The arguments about whether people should be pleased or not are reduntant - SI are clearly trying to make the regens as 'realistic' as possible, and the only sensible way I can imagine them doing that is to design things in a way that the distribution of attributes and abilities in the original database is generally mirrored (though obviously with an element of random change) as the game progresses.

There's no way they'd deliberately make regens worse or better than they should be just to keep people happy. Any 'problems' that there might be with regens no doubt occur because it's an incredibly difficult thing to get right.