Long-Term Effects of the New Champions League Format

Obviously Platini and UEFA have a few ideas for what they want to see as a result of the new Champions League format, but it remains kind of difficult to see what the actual effects will be. Fortunately, we have this nice simulation to give us some ideas on long-term effects.

Has anyone who has been playing for a while noticed any trends or changes as a result of the new format? Have the league coefficient order changed significantly over time? Is it easier for those playing in the middle tier of leagues to qualify now?

What is the new Champions League format?

Ones of the trends that I've noticed in the Champions League now is that, despite spending at least £120mil per year, Man City still get absolutely nowhere.

Dafuge

Im not even going to try and explain it. Basically the teams that finish lower down in the EPL and other leauges will face a harder qualifying route. BBC explanation is going to better than me!

That won't be in the game yet, it doesn't come in until the 09/10 season and wasn't announced until after the game/patches came out.

Wow i didnt even realise this had been introduced! they slipped that in quietly, however im not sure if it has been implemented into the game yet or if it has i havent noticed it. If it not it may be in the next patch.

I'm pretty sure it's in the game now

That won't be in the game yet, it doesn't come in until the 09/10 season and wasn't announced until after the game/patches came out.

You're wrong. It is in the game.

its a total mess?

its called the CHAMPIONS LEAUGE not the 1st,2nd,& 3rd LEAGUE?

so all of europes league champions wether thay be from wales or irland should be strait into the groups & then football assosiation cup winners should fill up the spaces left.

2nd placed teams & 3rd's should be fighting for the eufa cup.

SIMPLE

This isn't a OT RL discussion of the merits of the format, I don't think.

its a total mess?

Where has someone claimed it to be a 'total mess'?

its a total mess?

its called the CHAMPIONS LEAUGE not the 1st,2nd,& 3rd LEAGUE?

so all of europes league champions wether thay be from wales or irland should be strait into the groups & then football assosiation cup winners should fill up the spaces left.

2nd placed teams & 3rd's should be fighting for the eufa cup.

SIMPLE

Its not that simple. The old European Cup was vastly overrated. As a Man Utd fan I can only wish United had the easy ride in the 90's that English clubs had in the 70's and 80's to win the trophy. Here's a little sample of the calibre of opponent Liverpool and Forest played to win the European Cup from 77-80.

Liverpool 1977 - Crusaders, Trabzonspor, St Etienne, Zurich, Monchengladbach

Liverpool 1978 - (Liverpool were given a 1st round bye this year ffs!) D Dresden, Benfica, Monchengladbach, Bruges

Nottm Forest 1979 - Liverpool, AEK Athens, Grasshoppers, Koln, Mamo

Nottm Forest 1980 - Oster, Arges Pitesti, Dynamo Berlin, Ajax, Hamburg

In contrast here are Man Utd's opponents during their CL wins:

1999 - LKS Lodz, Brondby, Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Inter Milan, Juventus and Bayern again

2008 - Roma, Dynamo Kiev, Sporting Lisbon, Lyon, Roma (again), Barcelona and Chelsea

If you reverted back to the old format the UEFA Cup would be harder to win than the European Cup - just as it was in the old days. In the year Celtic won the European Cup, Belfast's finest Linfield (a part-time club) were a whisker away from the semi finals. In 1972-73 Bayern Munich beat Omonia Nicosia 13-0 on aggregate in the last 16 - can you honestly imagine such a ridiculous mis-match in the first knockout round of the CL now?

The romantics would never admit it but the Champions League is a far tougher competition than the European Cup.

Its not that simple. The old European Cup was vastly overrated. As a Man Utd fan I can only wish United had the easy ride in the 90's that English clubs had in the 70's and 80's to win the trophy. Here's a little sample of the calibre of opponent Liverpool and Forest played to win the European Cup from 77-80.

Liverpool 1977 - Crusaders, Trabzonspor, St Etienne, Zurich, Monchengladbach

Liverpool 1978 - (Liverpool were given a 1st round bye this year ffs!) D Dresden, Benfica, Monchengladbach, Bruges

Nottm Forest 1979 - Liverpool, AEK Athens, Grasshoppers, Koln, Mamo

Nottm Forest 1980 - Oster, Arges Pitesti, Dynamo Berlin, Ajax, Hamburg

In contrast here are Man Utd's opponents during their CL wins:

1999 - LKS Lodz, Brondby, Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Inter Milan, Juventus and Bayern again

2008 - Roma, Dynamo Kiev, Sporting Lisbon, Lyon, Roma (again), Barcelona and Chelsea

If you reverted back to the old format the UEFA Cup would be harder to win than the European Cup - just as it was in the old days. In the year Celtic won the European Cup, Belfast's finest Linfield (a part-time club) were a whisker away from the semi finals. In 1972-73 Bayern Munich beat Omonia Nicosia 13-0 on aggregate in the last 16 - can you honestly imagine such a ridiculous mis-match in the first knockout round of the CL now?

The romantics would never admit it but the Champions League is a far tougher competition than the European Cup.

i really liked this reply

anyway its the champions league so only champions i say.

I was not aware of this at all and after reading about it (thanks for the link HuwFlet), I think it is a step in the right direction and is very much along the lines of what the competition needs. The reasons are obvious and that's clearly outlined in that article; the dominant teams only get stronger and form their own little competition amongst them, not allowing the clubs who are not as "big" for the lack of a better word, to get in on the action.

To be honest, I would like to see more and more clubs from countries other than the current top footballing nations because the competition has been becoming predictable, again mentioned well in the article.

I personally have not paid attention to this in FM 09 as I am playing in the lower leagues of Eastern Europe however as I progress and aim for that promotion I will be keeping an eye on this and see if it has been reflected within the game properly.

erm simple solution here. change the name of the champions league. clearly a league for just league champions would be awful so just call it the "richest clubs in europe + some from sweden cup". solved.

if we jus had champions in it then the uefa cup would be the best cup just missing a few clubs, then the clubs who are the champions are missing out on the best tournament. that would not work.

nothing beats the FA cup really anyway...

It is in the game, I can get a screenshot of the formate from 2025 if anybody wants to see how it works,

I don't see the need to drastically change the format of the Champions League. It's the most exciting club competition in the world and would be a lot less entertaining then if it were just the champions from each league in Europe.

And to CPS...While I agree with you that the European Cup might not have had the strength in depth that the Champions League has, it was meant for the best club in each individual league so when facing a team you knew they were the best in their division. And if it it stayed as the European Cup, with only the winners of each league entering the competition, you wouldn't have got your hands on ol' big ears in the 98-99 season as you finished as runners up the season before. You can't have it both ways!!

Can people actually keep to the topic? This isn't about whether the Champions League is right in its current format, whether it should be changed, whether it's a misnomer or whatever else, it's about anyone whose got far enough in-game to notice the effect of the change in qualifying.

I'd be really interested hearing anyone's experience of getting a few years into the game and what effects it has had, if any.

It doesn't seem to have had that much effect on the knockout stages, but there are some unexpected teams getting a little further than they might normally, for example FC Andorra and SS Murata both made it to the 2nd Champions Qualifying Round, mostly down to them meeting the champions from other smaller countries instead of say, France's 2nd placed team or England's 3rd placed team.

Can people actually keep to the topic? This isn't about whether the Champions League is right in its current format, whether it should be changed, whether it's a misnomer or whatever else, it's about anyone whose got far enough in-game to notice the effect of the change in qualifying.

I'd be really interested hearing anyone's experience of getting a few years into the game and what effects it has had, if any.

I'm only in the second season of my file but these changes do seem to have been implemented. However, looking at the group stages there are no real surprises. It just meant Spurs had to play PSG instead of a nobody and Rangers got Villareal in the qualifying round.

It is in the game, I can get a screenshot of the formate from 2025 if anybody wants to see how it works,

could u post a screenshot for me .. I am about to go onto my 2nd season and I would like to see how it works first.

Basically, you have a "Champions" Tournament consisting of a preliminary round and 3 qualifying phases:

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/kroblues/chamleague.jpg

And a "Best Placed" Tournament consisting of 2 Qualifying Phases:

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w180/kroblues/chamleaguebp.jpg

Then as far as I can see those who have got through their "Tournament" go into the Group Stage where it proceeds as normal.

Hope this helped!

well lets be honest we all know platini hates england so he is just using this as another way of keeping us down.

The romantics would never admit it but the Champions League is a far tougher competition than the European Cup.

And much more boring too.

well lets be honest we all know platini hates england so he is just using this as another way of keeping us down.

Agreed.

Platini is a bitch.

well lets be honest we all know platini hates england so he is just using this as another way of keeping us down.

Right, but UEFA and FIFA hates British football

On-topic please!

Seeing as im a Rangers hoe in real life and in the game ive been able to watch the effects it has on the SPL quite a bit.

Ive always won the league (not that hard considering all you need to do is sign 3-4 good players and beat Celtic more than they beat you... and vice versa) so for me its been a case of watching Celtic draw quite prominent teams in order to even qualify for the group stages.

In one of my simulated modes Rangers won the SPL and thus got auto promotion about 5 or 6 season in a row and Celtic never once qualified...

The end result was Celtic hemoraging money and being unable to outbid any decent club.

They didnt finish in the top 3 of the SPL for 2 years at one point.

Then Rangers imploded and Motherwell and Dundee United took over for 4 or so years.

Celtic started coming 6th and 7th etc... Rangers jumped back up and won 2 seasons in a row by 2020 odd at some point.

Overall its probably just an off season that shouldnt be taken as fact but its troubling.

In my current save i came 1st in my 1st season easily (thanks to a takeover and £30m to spend), and Celtic didnt even get into Europe because they got put out by Galatasaray in the 1st qualifying round.

No Euro money for them at all, means i got more but again... worrying for real life.

It was harder to qualify. Had to face Sparta Prague and then Valencia.

Its not that simple. The old European Cup was vastly overrated. As a Man Utd fan I can only wish United had the easy ride in the 90's that English clubs had in the 70's and 80's to win the trophy. Here's a little sample of the calibre of opponent Liverpool and Forest played to win the European Cup from 77-80.

Liverpool 1977 - Crusaders, Trabzonspor, St Etienne, Zurich, Monchengladbach

Liverpool 1978 - (Liverpool were given a 1st round bye this year ffs!) D Dresden, Benfica, Monchengladbach, Bruges

Nottm Forest 1979 - Liverpool, AEK Athens, Grasshoppers, Koln, Mamo

Nottm Forest 1980 - Oster, Arges Pitesti, Dynamo Berlin, Ajax, Hamburg

In contrast here are Man Utd's opponents during their CL wins:

1999 - LKS Lodz, Brondby, Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Inter Milan, Juventus and Bayern again

2008 - Roma, Dynamo Kiev, Sporting Lisbon, Lyon, Roma (again), Barcelona and Chelsea

If you reverted back to the old format the UEFA Cup would be harder to win than the European Cup - just as it was in the old days. In the year Celtic won the European Cup, Belfast's finest Linfield (a part-time club) were a whisker away from the semi finals. In 1972-73 Bayern Munich beat Omonia Nicosia 13-0 on aggregate in the last 16 - can you honestly imagine such a ridiculous mis-match in the first knockout round of the CL now?

The romantics would never admit it but the Champions League is a far tougher competition than the European Cup.

A couple of fair points there, but you say that the Champions League is a tougher competition than the European Cup? If this is the case then how come United only won it once in 1968?

In 1984 we had to play Athletico Bilbao, Benfica, Dinamo Bucharest, then Roma in the final (in their own backyard).

In 2005 we had to play Monaco, Olympiakos, Deportivo, Leverkusen, Juventus, Chelsea, then Milan in the final. Now that is harder than United's run in 2008 and on par with 1999.

I just sense a little bit of bitterness from yourself!?

A couple of fair points there, but you say that the Champions League is a tougher competition than the European Cup? If this is the case then how come United only won it once in 1968?

In 1984 we had to play Athletico Bilbao, Benfica, Dinamo Bucharest, then Roma in the final (in their own backyard).

In 2005 we had to play Monaco, Olympiakos, Deportivo, Leverkusen, Juventus, Chelsea, then Milan in the final. Now that is harder than United's run in 2008 and on par with 1999.

I just sense a little bit of bitterness from yourself!?

Of course Liverpool's run in 2005 was as hard as United's. My argument was that to win the CL a team almost always has a more ardous task than the old European Cup winners. Its simply logic any competition with 4 Spanish, Italian and English sides in it is going to be more difficult than one with the Champions of Malta, Northern ireland, Luxembourg, etc. On your other point - United never won the European Cup after 1968 because they were never in it!

On your other point - United never won the European Cup after 1968 because they were never in it!

My point exactly - if you're not in it, then you're not good enough to win it. Therefore, the champions of Malta, Hungary, etc. were good enough to be in it because they were the better team in their league over the course of the season, just because they come from a poor footballing nation doesn't mean that they don't deserve to be there.

My point exactly - if you're not in it, then you're not good enough to win it. Therefore, the champions of Malta, Hungary, etc. were good enough to be in it because they were the better team in their league over the course of the season, just because they come from a poor footballing nation doesn't mean that they don't deserve to be there.

Well my point was that in the year Linfield got to the quarter finals they were not in the 8 best teams in Europe - or the year which Omonia Nicosia lost 13-0 they were not in the top 16 teams in Europe. I think the Champions League gives, by and large, a much clearer picture on the strongest clubs in Europe in each given season. I understand the argument that having 2nd-4th placed teams devalues the competition, however think if the old format were brought back the desire to watch, for example, Austria Vienna versus CSKA Sofia in a Europen Cup Quarter Final wouldn't be so great.

My point exactly - if you're not in it, then you're not good enough to win it. Therefore, the champions of Malta, Hungary, etc. were good enough to be in it because they were the better team in their league over the course of the season, just because they come from a poor footballing nation doesn't mean that they don't deserve to be there.

sure but there isn't a market for people outside of malta, hungary etc to watch these teams are there? the cl is a business and they make more money with great european teams like man u, chelsea, liverpool, barca, real madrid, bayern, juve, inter, milan etc etc. people would rather watch the 4th place team in england, spain or italy than some dross who won an amateur league in azerbaijan even if they arent champions.

with the new cl format it is still possible for 4 teams from england, italy or spain to qualify but they will just have a tougher route to the group stage. there will be more opportunity for winners of weaker leagues to qualify as they will be drawn against winners of fellow weaker leagues, rather than 3rd/4th place teams from strong nations who would crush them. overall there will still be a strong representation of the larger nations while giving more of a chance to winners from weaker nations.

in my game i am in 2017. the furtheset a team from a 'weaker' nation has got was when anderlecht reached the semis 2 years in a row. there are more weaker teams in the group stage but most these teams are greyed out even with a large database and they usually come last. because of the tough qualifying rounds there has only been 4 english teams in the group stage 3 times, so one of the big 4 usually will miss out. this means less money for them and the gap between the big 4 and other clubs in the prem has closed. chelsea are now a mid table team. liverpool (who had a rich takeover) and arsenal are out front, then man u, man city, spurs, blackburn, villa, everton battle it out for the remaining euro places

On-topic please!

You might as well ask the Yids to go and support the Gooners. The moment you bring in CL stuff you get all the bandwagon fans from the big clubs turn up with their explanations of how brilliant their team is and how the money should only go to them.

See. I had to go off-topic just to point out the ludicrous nature of asking a thread about football to stay purely on the FM topic.

sure but there isn't a market for people outside of malta, hungary etc to watch these teams are there? the cl is a business and they make more money with great european teams like man u, chelsea, liverpool, barca, real madrid, bayern, juve, inter, milan etc etc. people would rather watch the 4th place team in england, spain or italy than some dross who won an amateur league in azerbaijan even if they arent champions.

Speak for yourself. I much prefer watching hard working teams I know nothing about.

By your logic the World Cup should just have Spain, Italy, Germany, England, Argentina and Brazil because who cares about watching Romania vs Togo?

Speak for yourself. I much prefer watching hard working teams I know nothing about.

By your logic the World Cup should just have Spain, Italy, Germany, England, Argentina and Brazil because who cares about watching Romania vs Togo?

My thoughts exactly. Football isn't just Man Utd, Barcelona or Milan, even if they play great football. I think in order to fully understand what the reasoning behind this is to think outside the box a bit.

Its not that simple. The old European Cup was vastly overrated. As a Man Utd fan I can only wish United had the easy ride in the 90's that English clubs had in the 70's and 80's to win the trophy. Here's a little sample of the calibre of opponent Liverpool and Forest played to win the European Cup from 77-80.

Liverpool 1977 - Crusaders, Trabzonspor, St Etienne, Zurich, Monchengladbach

Liverpool 1978 - (Liverpool were given a 1st round bye this year ffs!) D Dresden, Benfica, Monchengladbach, Bruges

Nottm Forest 1979 - Liverpool, AEK Athens, Grasshoppers, Koln, Mamo

Nottm Forest 1980 - Oster, Arges Pitesti, Dynamo Berlin, Ajax, Hamburg

In contrast here are Man Utd's opponents during their CL wins:

1999 - LKS Lodz, Brondby, Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Inter Milan, Juventus and Bayern again

2008 - Roma, Dynamo Kiev, Sporting Lisbon, Lyon, Roma (again), Barcelona and Chelsea

If you reverted back to the old format the UEFA Cup would be harder to win than the European Cup - just as it was in the old days. In the year Celtic won the European Cup, Belfast's finest Linfield (a part-time club) were a whisker away from the semi finals. In 1972-73 Bayern Munich beat Omonia Nicosia 13-0 on aggregate in the last 16 - can you honestly imagine such a ridiculous mis-match in the first knockout round of the CL now?

The romantics would never admit it but the Champions League is a far tougher competition than the European Cup.

Its all MONEY, MONEY, MONEY ... However, Celtic won the European cup with 11 scotsmen all born within a 30 mile radius of Glasgow - A feat in itself

Speak for yourself. I much prefer watching hard working teams I know nothing about.

By your logic the World Cup should just have Spain, Italy, Germany, England, Argentina and Brazil because who cares about watching Romania vs Togo?

Definitatly, I much prefer watching the FA Cup when its say, Kettering v Eastwood to a Premiership game. Mostly because the players have to work harder in lower league games as they maybe don't have the ability, so you get quite a few open games of football, much more exciting to watch.

Its all MONEY, MONEY, MONEY ... However, Celtic won the European cup with 11 scotsmen all born within a 30 mile radius of Glasgow - A feat in itself

Agreed and what a feat that was. Doubt we will see that again. A team winning the CL with 11 players all from the same country as the team that won it.