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bamsola
27-01-2008, 11:56
Please don't think of merely fixing the faults within the match engine by making strikers more clinical.

You actually need to look at redeigning the match engine so that there are less chances created and more clinical finishing because thats how modern day top flight football works.

Thats all.

PS: Anybody who wants to add suggestion as to how they want the match engine altered please do.

bamsola
27-01-2008, 11:56
Please don't think of merely fixing the faults within the match engine by making strikers more clinical.

You actually need to look at redeigning the match engine so that there are less chances created and more clinical finishing because thats how modern day top flight football works.

Thats all.

PS: Anybody who wants to add suggestion as to how they want the match engine altered please do.

CharlieGooner
27-01-2008, 11:59
i 100% agree

daffyg
27-01-2008, 12:07
i just want the transfer fee's to be fixed

1gr8gamer
27-01-2008, 12:08
I agree fully with that suggestion.The problem isn't the "superkeepers" it's the strikers get about 20 one on ones a game and hit them ALL straight at the keeper.

This is really the main problem needing fixing.

1gr8gamer
27-01-2008, 12:09
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by 1gr8gamer:
I agree fully with that suggestion.The problem isn't the "superkeepers" it's the strikers get about 20 one on ones a game and hit them ALL straight at the keeper.

This is really the main problem that needs fixing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

backpackant
27-01-2008, 12:43
I know there are a lot of problems with the number of shots on target vs scored, but for me it's only a statistic. I dont have the same problem a lot of people here do with losing 1-0 when I've had 100 shots on target against their 1. I tweak my tactics throughout the game to counter this, and it works.

My main gripe with the game is that when I want to offload a player I can't. Even setting a player who's had an avg of 7.5 the previous season to £0 generates no interest. Could understand if the player was a donkey or on £50k per week, but they're not. If I have a £3.5M rated player who I transfer list for £250k - £1m, I should be inundated with offers.

fatboyjohnmulhern
27-01-2008, 13:04
i am so agreeing with backpackant that i feel that he is my split personality

KnightedManager
27-01-2008, 13:12
How about stopping the 50 enquiries over the summer for the same player, from the same club? Just because a couple of days has passed, doesn't mean my valuationof one of my best players has dropped damn it!!!

ViG1980
27-01-2008, 15:00
Add to this the long-term aspect of the game whereby newgens are nowhere near as good as current database players

www2
27-01-2008, 15:23
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KnightedManager:
How about stopping the 50 enquiries over the summer for the same player, from the same club? Just because a couple of days has passed, doesn't mean my valuationof one of my best players has dropped damn it!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

whs

Macyst
27-01-2008, 15:36
Don't forget about Confidence and Board Expectation. You simply can't expect a team to reach all the finals of every cup they entered. It's totally absurd to have "Minimum expectation" at that high level.

Also, new signings need more time than just 3 matches. Linking to that, DMC are usually poorly rated only because they do their job and not going into attack as much. Any new DMC singing would always rated "poor acquisition" or worse.

For youngsters that were signed, if they play in reserve team or U18, those should be rated as well. Fans do know and see U18 and reserve games. I'm forced not to sub them for some first team experience since I know they'd get rating of 6's which will eventually backfire me.

kccircle
27-01-2008, 16:09
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bamsola:


You actually need to look at redeigning the match engine so that there are less chances created and more clinical finishing because thats how modern day top flight football works.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not everyone plays top flight football though. I only test a few things out there and have a bash once in a while buying players for mega money. For me the experience of this game is with LLM where itis IMO much more realistic

kccircle
27-01-2008, 16:10
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KnightedManager:
How about stopping the 50 enquiries over the summer for the same player, from the same club? Just because a couple of days has passed, doesn't mean my valuationof one of my best players has dropped damn it!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What about when Chelsea were after Essien. It was in the papers for weeks with bid after bid after improved bid etc. It does happen

DJdeMarco
28-01-2008, 01:04
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kccircle:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KnightedManager:
How about stopping the 50 enquiries over the summer for the same player, from the same club? Just because a couple of days has passed, doesn't mean my valuationof one of my best players has dropped damn it!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What about when Chelsea were after Essien. It was in the papers for weeks with bid after bid after improved bid etc. It does happen </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The important part of what you said was improved bid. In FM, they generally make an offer or enquire about the player, you give a price so they withdraw their interest and then enquire again or make the same bid within a couple of days.

If the AI was actually improving their offer, I would agree. Unfortunately, they rarely do.

rinso
28-01-2008, 01:06
the one that really narks me is when you offer a transfer listed player out to clubs, and the next day, get tons of enquiries asking how much you want for the player... well, let me think about that one... it'll be how much i offered him to you for... its not rocket science!! http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif oh and i should add, i always knock the asking price down to around half of the players value...

gunnerfan
28-01-2008, 06:51
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by 1gr8gamer:
I agree fully with that suggestion.The problem isn't the "superkeepers" it's the strikers get about 20 one on ones a game and hit them ALL straight at the keeper.

This is really the main problem needing fixing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would say it's one of two main problems with the ME that need fixing. The other is on the defensive side, where defenders all too often allow themselves to get pulled out of position, creating space in back of them; opposing attackers immediately expolit this space, creating more scoring chances that you might see IRL (in fact, I wonder if the well-documented phenomenon of "playing catch with the keeper" is the game's way of compensating).

Other irritations, also documented elsewhere, include players holding the ball for far too long (until they ultimately cough it up and a goal is surrendered) and players making really, incredibly, ridiculously stupid passes right in front of goal that get converted to goals (the kind you coach kids not to do before their first year of travel soccer!).

calvg
28-01-2008, 07:08
its getting better trust me

Maher
28-01-2008, 07:21
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bamsola:
Please don't think of merely fixing the faults within the match engine by making strikers more clinical.

You actually need to look at redeigning the match engine so that there are less chances created and more clinical finishing because thats how modern day top flight football works.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Agreed, if they did that the scores would be ridculous.

Unfortunetaly, considering the number of "it's your tactics!" people here, somehow I doubt they're going to bother very much with this issue in this patch. For some reason I feel we're going to have to wait for FM09 for this to be fixed http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

KDR
28-01-2008, 07:21
Stupid players annoy me, too. Should also be possible to play a short, but direct passing game. And no, they aren't opposites. Think Arsenal. Until recently, they never seemed to lump it long, yet the passing and moving was direct. In FM, the best I've been able to do is go with a more attacking mindset and short passing game with quick tempo. This usually means that moves break down too easily, though, and my defence is left too exposed.
I know it must be possible, though, because AI plays that way against me all the time.
Ditto marking/defending. Even without being too attacking in some games, my players will be marked out of games, closed down, etc much more effectively than I can mark the opposition. Again, I've tried everything from marking style to creative freedom - I can't find that combination that AI seems to take for granted.

I'd also say something needs to be done about deflections. 9/10 deflections/charged down shots for me go wide, or fall into places my striker refuses to go, despite no defenders. 9/10 of the same against me seem to go in or fall straight to a striker.
Surely any striker, regardless of instructions, would go for a 50/50, let alone some of the times he's run the other way despite it being a clear tap-in (and being on all-out-attack mentality). I was a striker. I'm bloody sure I would have done!

Nomis07
28-01-2008, 07:29
Maher

Fact is, this has been a "problem" year after year. The only CM/FM that did not suffer this problem was CM03/04 and it was ridiculously easy, I scored well over 100 goals a season with Bolton and Roncatto regularly got over 50 in the EPL. So I doubt you'll be getting it "fixed" in FM09 either.

Think of it like this: -

- Limit the amount of chances per game and each game will have very very few highlights so the game will become boring.

- The problem is to do with your tactics but not in the sense that your tactics aren't good enough, they are too good.

- People are moaning about it being unrealistic yet they are 10 years into a game that has Burton Albion (led by them) in the Champions League.

To be honest I love it, I love the way the game can have me cringing after 10 missed chances and jump out of my seat when one finally goes in.

The problem is that the terminology used by a majority of fiorum users isn't picked up upon. It's only some games, not all, and just as KDR mentions the marking and closing down happens in some games, this happens IRL.

Maher
28-01-2008, 07:52
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nomis07:
Maher

Fact is, this has been a "problem" year after year. The only CM/FM that did not suffer this problem was CM03/04 and it was ridiculously easy, I scored well over 100 goals a season with Bolton and Roncatto regularly got over 50 in the EPL. So I doubt you'll be getting it "fixed" in FM09 either.

Think of it like this: -

- Limit the amount of chances per game and each game will have very very few highlights so the game will become boring.

- The problem is to do with your tactics but not in the sense that your tactics aren't good enough, they are too good.

- People are moaning about it being unrealistic yet they are 10 years into a game that has Burton Albion (led by them) in the Champions League.

To be honest I love it, I love the way the game can have me cringing after 10 missed chances and jump out of my seat when one finally goes in.

The problem is that the terminology used by a majority of fiorum users isn't picked up upon. It's only some games, not all, and just as KDR mentions the marking and closing down happens in some games, this happens IRL. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I've been playing this game since CM2 and was never able to create this many chances per game, not even close. In FM08 I win most of my games but I'm tired of seeing my team having 35-40 shots almost every game and missing 10 clear chances in order to win 1:0.

So, I've gone back to FM 07 and this does NOT happen there. There is perhaps still more clear chances being missed than IRL but it is much more realistic than FM08. There is a lot less chances in the match and watching the highlights is actually way more enjoyable to me.

It's true the game has to have a good balance of realism and fun as a 100% realistic FM would be boring but surely at least the match engine should be as realistic as possible? Because it's not only "some" games that this happens. Depending on your tactics, almost every match in FM08 has a ridiculous number of shots compared to RL. Watching my world class strikers missing chance after chance is neither realistic or fun.

Nomis07
28-01-2008, 08:03
I beg to differ re "Super Keeper" as the problem has become known, this has been prevalent in the game for years ( and has been documented throughout the internet for years) but perhaps only as noticeable since the 2d match engine was introduced. FM07 was just as bad as I witnessed the same problems and searched all over the net for solutions and found many people sufferin in the same way.

As for 35-40 shots this a common exaggeration, I too win a majority of my games and went a season without losing, yet have never had more than 22 sot.

So what we are asking for is a game realistic enough to measure the amounts of sot etc and gauge the realism but at the same time have enough scope to see teams advance from conference to chapmions league in little over a decade.

Filbert Fox
28-01-2008, 08:13
Sadly, although I agree with the majority of stuff above, I feel it's all far too late for 8.0.2.

Maher
28-01-2008, 12:21
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nomis07:
I beg to differ re "Super Keeper" as the problem has become known, this has been prevalent in the game for years ( and has been documented throughout the internet for years) but perhaps only as noticeable since the 2d match engine was introduced. FM07 was just as bad as I witnessed the same problems and searched all over the net for solutions and found many people sufferin in the same way.

As for 35-40 shots this a common exaggeration, I too win a majority of my games and went a season without losing, yet have never had more than 22 sot.

So what we are asking for is a game realistic enough to measure the amounts of sot etc and gauge the realism but at the same time have enough scope to see teams advance from conference to chapmions league in little over a decade. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The way I see it, there has never been such thing as "superkeepers" in the game. In earlier versions, you could have a game where you missed a lot of clear chances and they scored from one every now and then but that happens IRL too.

The problem with FM08 is that certain tactics generate far too many chances in matches. Perhaps 40 shots is an exaggeration but it does happen and is not exactly rare. When was the last time something like that has happened in football at the top level? IRL when a team has 20 shots it's usually in Man Utd vs. Derby kind of games and yet in FM08 it happens almost every match. FM07 is clearly better and more realistic in that regard IMO.

MuppetMaestro
28-01-2008, 12:35
Have we had any indication there will be a 8.0.2 and if so a release due date?

postal postie
28-01-2008, 13:37
i doubt they can get a full redesign of the match engine out on a patch.
on the other hand it may merely just be a case of making the strikers more clinical that sorts the other problems out.

Nadessico
28-01-2008, 13:40
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MuppetMaestro:
Have we had any indication there will be a 8.0.2 and if so a release due date? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

definatly will be a 8.0.2 as they've said there will be a Janauary transfer update

Ridleys
28-01-2008, 13:46
I also agree. I think that in goals in the game at the moment there is a lot of difference between the way teams play. for example if you watched say Arsenal play against say Derby, you would expect Arsenal to play beautifully play and try to dominate on possesion rather than getting shots away every minute, they would look for the right pass and look for the right moment. Whereas on the game there is hardly any build up play. I don't think that possesion affects the game as much as it does in real life.

Jon French
28-01-2008, 13:47
Some very intelligent points raised here, very little ranting.

Totally agree that there are way too many shots on goal, disagree with this superkeepers theory, i find its usually players repeatedly balooning shots while trying to score from 30 yards out that really bumps up the shot count. I dont really have that many problems with my strikers missing sitters to be honest.

My main gripes with the match engine are:

1. Still far too unrealistic goal distribution ie. almost all the goals come from the strikers. And no ITS NOT MY ****ING TACTICS. This has bugged FM/CM since the match engine was introduced and I think its to do with the overwhelming numbers of goals that seem to come from breakaways both for the human and CPU players.

2. Shots from narrow angles - they are just ridiculously inaccurate.

3. Wingers/Fullbacks almost never cut in and have a crack on goal no matter what settings you give them. Again this is something that has plagued the game for quite a while in mh opnion.

HeartShapedMan
28-01-2008, 21:57
I also think there are too many chances/shots on goal. As a long time fan/watcher of football, I'd put it down to three main match engine related reasons:

1) The final ball/cross is a bit too good/accurate. In real life it usually takes many attempts to get the final ball perfect in order to create a chance, even with world class players. It's a very delicate art. Which leads to my next point...

2) Defenders. The AI for defenders is poor compared to the attackers. They aren't very good at the fundamental law of defending - stay goalside of the attacker until the last possible moment (to then make a challenge). They are too static, as if ball watching, and rarely pick up players when the other team are attacking/around your area or just easily let the attacker get goalside. Also, the advantage is (usually) with defenders since when a ball/pass/cross comes in, all they have to do is clear it, whereas an attacker must bring the ball under control and/or get a shot on target, which is much more difficult. Defenders don't need to worry about bringing the ball under control, they can just clear their lines. There should be a lot more crosses/final balls being cleared and not instantly brought down and fired in by attackers when the two players are in the same place vying for the ball.

3) Goalkeepers. As I played as a goalkeeper when younger this irks me. Again, their AI, especially their positional awareness, is poor. They are terrific shot stoppers (maybe a bit too good) but when it comes to the fundamentals of getting your angles right they often fail miserably. They are often woeful at covering their near posts, which is an unwritten golden rule of goalkeeping, with goals let in at the near-post usually seen as an error by the keeper. They also seem to act a bit too quickly when it comes to the flight of the ball, they'll quickly run to where the ball/cross would land only to have it headed in at the near post with the goalkeeper standing 10 yards away out of his goal. Although that may be tied to eccentricity.

millwallrules
28-01-2008, 22:33
I think the problem with the match engine isn't strikers, it is defenders.

The defenders let too many chances in and SI to make it fair have made it tougher for strikers to score

wwfan
28-01-2008, 22:59
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">- The problem is to do with your tactics but not in the sense that your tactics aren't good enough, they are too good </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Which is fundamentally wrong. Sorry to be so blunt, but...

The type of tactic that creates lots of shots has major, major design flaws. The problem is not that the tactic is too good, but that the engine allows it to create any kind of chance at all. People consistently percieive such a tactic as being genius becasue of the shot count, rather than recognising it being flawed in terms of football reality because of very same shot count.

The engine, for some reason, failed to combat a certain type of tactic that in reality wouldn't win a pea shooting contest. Hopefully 8.0.2 will cope with these tactics to the extent that they don't create any chances, or that all the chances are obviously long range punts. That way many of the moaners may make some fundamental redesigns that will turn their tactics into something recognisable in reality. I can understand the moans as it is no fun to have a tactic that needs 30 shots for one goal, but to assume the tactic is too good (i.e. x number of players are tactical geniuses) rather than flawed leads to much frustration.


I would say gunnerfan, John French and HeartShapedMan are talking much sense in this thread in that they have highlighted the real engine weaknesses.

And I would equally suggest that the new engine will be a far different creature than any one of us might imagine. I very much doubt SI have just tagged on a 'better finishing strikers' over the last two months.

Themistofelis
29-01-2008, 00:30
Focusing on shots/goal ration is wrong IMHO , new patch should make the game much more chill out experience removing the "sword over your head" feeling you get from the board, the players , the fans.
-Transfer market needs a fix
-Regens need a fix
-Match engine needs a fix
-Make some elements (like media&team talks) optional .
-Severely reduce the amount of clicks
-Make processing much much faster

Ozi
29-01-2008, 00:47
Hi,

I was been away for a month.
Please tell me, is this just a hipothetycal speech about 8.0.2 patch or we have some realistic information from SI towers that the new patch could be out soon?

Thanks in advance,
Oz

mlp071
29-01-2008, 01:02
They need to fix registration bug with several leagues(Spain, Germany, Turkey, and on and on).

It renders those leagues unplayable.

SI, not everyone cares to play English leagues only.I for one couldn't care less about them.But you have whole competition mess in lot of mentioned leagues.

olivne
29-01-2008, 01:44
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by 1gr8gamer:
I agree fully with that suggestion.The problem isn't the "superkeepers" it's the strikers get about 20 one on ones a game and hit them ALL straight at the keeper.

This is really the main problem needing fixing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by backpackant
My main gripe with the game is that when I want to offload a player I can't. Even setting a player who's had an avg of 7.5 the previous season to £0 generates no interest. Could understand if the player was a donkey or on £50k per week, but they're not. If I have a £3.5M rated player who I transfer list for £250k - £1m, I should be inundated with offers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What they said

Rickooko
29-01-2008, 02:05
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bamsola:
Please don't think of merely fixing the faults within the match engine by making strikers more clinical.

You actually need to look at redeigning the match engine so that there are less chances created and more clinical finishing because thats how modern day top flight football works.

Thats all.

PS: Anybody who wants to add suggestion as to how they want the match engine altered please do. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Totally agree but dont you think it is too late and get little point for making suggestions now?

I truely expect the patch will be out in the first week of Feb after the transfer windown was closed.

Mitja
29-01-2008, 02:36
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HeartShapedMan:
I also think there are too many chances/shots on goal. As a long time fan/watcher of football, I'd put it down to three main match engine related reasons:

1) The final ball/cross is a bit too good/accurate. In real life it usually takes many attempts to get the final ball perfect in order to create a chance, even with world class players. It's a very delicate art. Which leads to my next point...

2) Defenders. The AI for defenders is poor compared to the attackers. They aren't very good at the fundamental law of defending - stay goalside of the attacker until the last possible moment (to then make a challenge). They are too static, as if ball watching, and rarely pick up players when the other team are attacking/around your area or just easily let the attacker get goalside. Also, the advantage is (usually) with defenders since when a ball/pass/cross comes in, all they have to do is clear it, whereas an attacker must bring the ball under control and/or get a shot on target, which is much more difficult. Defenders don't need to worry about bringing the ball under control, they can just clear their lines. There should be a lot more crosses/final balls being cleared and not instantly brought down and fired in by attackers when the two players are in the same place vying for the ball.

3) Goalkeepers. As I played as a goalkeeper when younger this irks me. Again, their AI, especially their positional awareness, is poor. They are terrific shot stoppers (maybe a bit too good) but when it comes to the fundamentals of getting your angles right they often fail miserably. They are often woeful at covering their near posts, which is an unwritten golden rule of goalkeeping, with goals let in at the near-post usually seen as an error by the keeper. They also seem to act a bit too quickly when it comes to the flight of the ball, they'll quickly run to where the ball/cross would land only to have it headed in at the near post with the goalkeeper standing 10 yards away out of his goal. Although that may be tied to eccentricity. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


BALL SPEED?


1) absolutly true. one pacey striker and you have as many 1/1 as you want, for example. but does the ball speed play big role here. I mentioned this many times, also did some test; the ball is too slow (esp. on 8.0.1). just look at passes, players are waitnig for the ball, every second pass. so it's no wonder that we have so many key passes, being succesfull. I know many will disagree, but comparing some real football matches with FM ME, you'll see what I'm talking about. as I said I did some tests also, but the problem is that we don't have REAL TIME in FM; you can't find any slider that would suite 1 minute of real time.

2) no doubt. IRE defender's got advantage over attacking player on passes, especialy long and through balls, becouse the ball is comming his way. he's got more time to react. in FM that isn't the case. why. ball speed in my opinoum. look at long balls for example. both, ATTing and DEFing players just stand still and wait for the ball to fall. IRE you see much more movement to get to the ball.

I realy think increasing the ball speed slightky would bring more reality to the game via more bad passes, more movement to get to the ball, the ball would be harder to handle also...

3) goalkeepers are too good. but they have to be, becouse then we would have some realy crazy resoults out there.

4-2-4 ouch!
29-01-2008, 02:54
You better be listening SI. This may just be your last chance to hold on to the majority of players. We are all sick of the programmed cheats, and thats exactly what they are. And we dont need to see crappy players playing like Pele when the AI needs them to. We dont need to see totally unrealistc happening such as 45 yards through ball headers to completely unmarked players despite all tactics to the opposite. The AI does it the same way all the time.

I have to build a goal and sometimes I mite get a breakaway goal. That is if my 19 fin 20 comp striker can dribble and shoot inside the box. LOL as if thats ever happening. While all the AI needs is one chance and a guy who cares if hes any good. Anyone will do. There are more bugs in this version than can be listed by any one person. The question in your minds should be how the hell did we do this. You should be ashamed that you let your standards slide so apaulingly. The game dynamic itself is simply superb. But the total denial of attributes I feel is why people are feeling cheated. Yes this is football and anything is possible. Anyone watch the F.A cup games just gone hmmmm.

But some of the basic laws of physics are being spat on by the AI height speed acc ABILITY are all being totally ignored by the AI. Lets not mention form then eh. Tactics are good but when I watch games in an extended highlight format, Ill be leading by a goal or two or three and will have to watch the entire final five minutes of the game. while reverse those rolls and nothing. Expert time wasting by the AI. How the F%$k did you think that was acceptable. There would have to be one attempt in fiftenn minutes with an attacking formation dont you think. I could go on for ages. And that simply begs the question what was the response from the testing team. No more they cant pick up all the bugs anymore SI its totally stupid and a putdown of your customers intelligence. There are way to many noticeable instantly. Make damn sure you do a good job on .02 lads. It may be your final hope. Good luck.

Mitja
29-01-2008, 03:14
it's your tactics http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

dcarter36
29-01-2008, 03:20
All SI needs to do with 8.0.2 is less difficult. With the current patch winning is almost impossible to do no matter what tactics when you use.

dcarter36
29-01-2008, 03:21
All SI needs to do with 8.0.2 is to make this patch less difficult. With the current patch winning is almost impossible to do no matter what tactics when you use.[/quote]

Jibsa
29-01-2008, 03:25
Foe me the bug on closed down and deflected direct freekicks and to a lesser degree long shots is a must fix.

Ruins the game for me, there is no wondering whats gonna happen when you win or give away a free kick

Mitja
29-01-2008, 05:05
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mitja:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HeartShapedMan:
I also think there are too many chances/shots on goal. As a long time fan/watcher of football, I'd put it down to three main match engine related reasons:

1) The final ball/cross is a bit too good/accurate. In real life it usually takes many attempts to get the final ball perfect in order to create a chance, even with world class players. It's a very delicate art. Which leads to my next point...

2) Defenders. The AI for defenders is poor compared to the attackers. They aren't very good at the fundamental law of defending - stay goalside of the attacker until the last possible moment (to then make a challenge). They are too static, as if ball watching, and rarely pick up players when the other team are attacking/around your area or just easily let the attacker get goalside. Also, the advantage is (usually) with defenders since when a ball/pass/cross comes in, all they have to do is clear it, whereas an attacker must bring the ball under control and/or get a shot on target, which is much more difficult. Defenders don't need to worry about bringing the ball under control, they can just clear their lines. There should be a lot more crosses/final balls being cleared and not instantly brought down and fired in by attackers when the two players are in the same place vying for the ball.

3) Goalkeepers. As I played as a goalkeeper when younger this irks me. Again, their AI, especially their positional awareness, is poor. They are terrific shot stoppers (maybe a bit too good) but when it comes to the fundamentals of getting your angles right they often fail miserably. They are often woeful at covering their near posts, which is an unwritten golden rule of goalkeeping, with goals let in at the near-post usually seen as an error by the keeper. They also seem to act a bit too quickly when it comes to the flight of the ball, they'll quickly run to where the ball/cross would land only to have it headed in at the near post with the goalkeeper standing 10 yards away out of his goal. Although that may be tied to eccentricity. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


BALL SPEED?


1) absolutly true. one pacey striker and you have as many 1/1 as you want, for example. but does the ball speed play big role here. I mentioned this many times, also did some test; the ball is too slow (esp. on 8.0.1). just look at passes, players are waitnig for the ball, every second pass. so it's no wonder that we have so many key passes, being succesfull. I know many will disagree, but comparing some real football matches with FM ME, you'll see what I'm talking about. as I said I did some tests also, but the problem is that we don't have REAL TIME in FM; you can't find any slider that would suite 1 minute of real time.

2) no doubt. IRE defender's got advantage over attacking player on passes, especialy long and through balls, becouse the ball is comming his way. he's got more time to react. in FM that isn't the case. why. ball speed in my opinoum. look at long balls for example. both, ATTing and DEFing players just stand still and wait for the ball to fall. IRE you see much more movement to get to the ball.

I realy think increasing the ball speed slightky would bring more reality to the game via more bad passes, more movement to get to the ball, the ball would be harder to handle also...

3) goalkeepers are too good. but they have to be, becouse then we would have some realy crazy resoults out there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


EXAMPLES OF BALL BEING TOO SLOW

- most obvous and anoying one; players constantly wait for the ball to get to them.

- it takes years from GK's goal kick to falling to the ground. same for long passes. players are waiting (far too often) instead od moving to get to it. but crosses are somehow much faster?!?

- IRE; key passes played around the box, those are not passes, they are more like shots to foot. that's how quick those passes are. very hard to handle and control. don't see any of that in FM.

- killer balls. "don't happen a lot IRE", or at least not as deadly as in FM;-&gt; happen all the time, due to attacking player being able to run as fast as ball?!? ---&gt;

&lt;- players ability to run as fast as ball; happens all the time in FM. that just isn't the case IRE, that's why teams are passing, becouse it's MUCH quicker then simply runing with ball.

- too good ball control becouse of the ball being too slow.--&gt;

&lt;- players don't have many problems with passing and controling, when under pressure (cloing down), due to ball being controled too easy. -&gt; the basic idea of closing down should be that opponents loose their posession, via clearances, bad passes/ control, or interceptions.



I'm sure there are some more examples, but these are the most obvious.

SiDolman
29-01-2008, 05:23
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> The other is on the defensive side, where defenders all too often allow themselves to get pulled out of position, creating space in back of them; opposing attackers immediately expolit this space, creating more scoring chances that you might see IRL </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agree, i also find that sometimes they seem to run to where the ball/opposition player currently is rather than where they are likely to be

gunnerfan
29-01-2008, 06:57
Has anyone uninstalled 8.0.1 and reinstalled 8.0.0?

Dropp
29-01-2008, 07:13
Defenders standing just infront of a corner to be taken and getting hit by the ball. so annoying this sometimes happen three times in a row and irl you see this maybe 3 times a season.

Super Bladesman
29-01-2008, 07:22
Bear in mind that the same match engine is used in Football Manager Live now, and with the beta test of that well under way the ME is being tested in thousands of games every day. This really helps with development!

Svenc
30-01-2008, 03:08
One small-ish (but oh so easily fixable) thingamabob that irked me lately is that special status of clubs aren't shown in say, the schedules. It'd be nice to see if a club just promoted/relegated/won the championship/the cup etc just by looking at the fixtures.

Mojby
30-01-2008, 05:25
My main issue with the game is the number of bookings my two central midfielders pick up every season and their ratings.

I play as Liverpool and in my first season Gerrard picked up 27 yellow cards and two sendings off. Since then things have calmed down a bit but every singel game so far, one or both of my central midfielders have picked up yellow cards.

This is totally unrealistic.

The player ratings are poor as well. i think the best average rating Gerrard has received in three seasonas is about 7.25. Please!!!

Mitja
30-01-2008, 05:41
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mojby:
My main issue with the game is the number of bookings my two central midfielders pick up every season and their ratings.

I play as Liverpool and in my first season Gerrard picked up 27 yellow cards and two sendings off. Since then things have calmed down a bit but every singel game so far, one or both of my central midfielders have picked up yellow cards.

This is totally unrealistic.

The player ratings are poor as well. i think the best average rating Gerrard has received in three seasonas is about 7.25. Please!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

agree. but it is linked with MC dwell on ball bug. if MC wouldn't hold the ball so long and just pass it on this wouldn' happen.