If you didn't buy/disliked FM09, what would make you buy FM10?

I gave the demo a pretty fair go, and decided not to get it. For me, I think the following need to be improved before I would consider buying the next version:

Assistant Manager: Suggestions need to be vastly improved. Many are obscure (gap between midfield and defence, for instance) with none of the obvious solutions making the comment go away, and no feedback as to potential solutions. Indeed, that's a common issue when a player is listed as being unused to a certain tactical style, and changing that style for the individual does not make the comment go away. It's frustrating and unintuitive.

Media: Much better range of answers, rather than the current “strongly agree” to “strongly disagree”. For instance, if a player criticises an aspect of a manager's style, it's unclear if disagreeing with that is saying that his concerns are unjustified, or that it's the style and he must deal with it. The appropriateness of questions needs to be considered as well – why would a Conference manager be asked his thoughts on the World Player of the Year, and why would his squad gain morale at his answer?

Graphics: Clearing out a few of the graphical quirks would be appreciated. They don't need to look great, but players should have some distinctiveness and everything should be smoother than it is. Also, if commentary only is selected, the graphics should not have to be loaded if you go into the tactics. It's an irritating delay.

User Interface: I should not have to close down the formation half of the screen every damned time I get to the Team Selection. I know my formation – I want to see more detail on the players when I'm selecting the side. This is particularly bad if you run the game in windowed mode. There should be a degree of customization as to the default view, or at least some memory of what the user selects

DRM: Appropriate DRM must deter pirates as much as possible without inconveniencing legitimate users. Many would argue that the DRM in FM09 fails in this regard. I would be much more comfortable with a Stardock-style DRM.

I've not been able to test out enough of the transfer market or player development in the demo to properly assess it, but I know that at least the former had a lot of room for improvement in previous versions.

So, what do you need to see improved/added in order to get the next version?

I'd like to see the return of the FM08 2D representation, which was nice and big and easy to watch. I'll probably buy FM10 even if that isn't reintroduced though

I could never go back to 2D, personally. I like FM09, so this really isn't the thread for me, but I just hope that the 3D view on FM2010 manages to iron out the high number of individual errors that players make.

I could never go back to 2D, personally. I like FM09, so this really isn't the thread for me, but I just hope that the 3D view on FM2010 manages to iron out the high number of individual errors that players make.

Is that not an ME problem rather than a view problem?

This game has irritated me more than any other game i have ever played.

But I'll still buy FM10 out of blind loyalty and hope.

as i still use 2D i would like the pitch on that to be back to 'original' size, as has already been said. and some global sliders on the team tactics tab, so you don't have to go through every player 5 times when changing tactics.

so just things that can make it easier/quicker to play the game

Is that not an ME problem rather than a view problem?

Yes. I just don't like saying "3D match engine" when 3D is really just a view of the match engine, as is 2D. You understand what I was saying, though?

Yes. I just don't like saying "3D match engine" when 3D is really just a view of the match engine, as is 2D. You understand what I was saying, though?

I do indeed. Unfortunately i'm a little confused by the whole 2D/3D representation/ME thingy, I believe they are supposed to be the same match engines, but I just don't think they are tbh.

Assistant Manager: Suggestions need to be vastly improved. Many are obscure (gap between midfield and defence, for instance) with none of the obvious solutions making the comment go away, and no feedback as to potential solutions.

Mess about with your mentality...each player. The message will soon go. See the tactics forum for a damn good guide to it.

I agree that potential solutions are not always evident, but hey, you're the tactical genius of a football manager. Might as well let the assistant run every game if you can't find a way around things. He gives enough suggestions to keep me happy.

DRM: Appropriate DRM must deter pirates as much as possible without inconveniencing legitimate users. Many would argue that the DRM in FM09 fails in this regard. I would be much more comfortable with a Stardock-style DRM.

The DRM is doing what it is intended to do. If you are referring to the problems that FM09 encountered at release then that was a blip caused by SI using a new system. They know the problems associated with it now, and it shouldn't be a problem for FM10.

Now they are familiar with the current system wouldn't changing it be a bad thing that could lead to more troubles?

If you are referring to the number of installs, well that is the case for many of the DRM solutions on games. If you follow the guidelines then you should never run out of installs. If you do then who's fault is that?

I've not been able to test out enough of the transfer market or player development in the demo to properly assess it, but I know that at least the former had a lot of room for improvement in previous versions.

I thought you were testing FM09, not FM08 or 07. The transfer system has undergone a huge redesign for FM09 and pretty much ignoring it means you have not thoroughly tested the game.

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I can't see any reason why I wouldn't buy FM10 as I have been thoroughly impressed with FM09. None of the reported bugs have been a big hinderance to me and patch 9.2.0 has really made the game great.

If I was going to choose one thing that I would like to see improved, however, then I would go along with your comments on the press conference questions. They do need work, but for a first effort it is a damn good addition to the game.

Of course, much of the manager/player interaction has stayed the same since it was inputed into the game, so I am not sure the press conferences will alter all that much before FM10. Still wouldn't stop me buying the game.

Yes. I just don't like saying "3D match engine" when 3D is really just a view of the match engine, as is 2D. You understand what I was saying, though?

I don't

Are you saying there are graphical errors with the 3D view of players, or there are match engine problems in general that aren't related to 3D?

I do indeed. Unfortunately i'm a little confused by the whole 2D/3D representation/ME thingy, I believe they are supposed to be the same match engines, but I just don't think they are tbh.

All I know is that there was something quite good with 2D about being kept in the dark about what specifically your players were doing wrong! On 3D you see every little mistake. The ones that annoy me the most are the ball bouncing off players' backs and players hammering the ball into their team mates.

I don't

Are you saying there are graphical errors with the 3D view of players, or there are match engine problems in general that aren't related to 3D?

If you see my recent reply to Nomis, that gives two examples of the area I'm referring to. I guess they're match engine issues that only become clear from watching 3D.

Ah right, I get ye.

What confuses me about it, is that when a ball is hammered against another players back, why they don't get any back pain or injuries from it

Why don't they even react?!

The ones that annoy me the most are the ball bouncing off players' backs and players hammering the ball into their team mates.

Not wanting to hijack the thread and sorry to the OP, but the one that annoys me the most is my wing backs tracking the opposition wingers down the line, but maintaining a distance of about 10 yards

Mess about with your mentality...each player. The message will soon go. See the tactics forum for a damn good guide to it.

I agree that potential solutions are not always evident, but hey, you're the tactical genius of a football manager. Might as well let the assistant run every game if you can't find a way around things. He gives enough suggestions to keep me happy.

Again, the solution is unintuitive. If the issue is a gap between the defence and midfield, one logical solution would be to play a defensive midfielder. That does not work.

The DRM is doing what it is intended to do. If you are referring to the problems that FM09 encountered at release then that was a blip caused by SI using a new system. They know the problems associated with it now, and it shouldn't be a problem for FM10.

Now they are familiar with the current system wouldn't changing it be a bad thing that could lead to more troubles?

If you are referring to the number of installs, well that is the case for many of the DRM solutions on games. If you follow the guidelines then you should never run out of installs. If you do then who's fault is that?

You genuinely think this form of DRM has prevented piracy of the game? I disagree with anything that makes me jump through hoops having bought a game legitimately.

I thought you were testing FM09, not FM08 or 07. The transfer system has undergone a huge redesign for FM09 and pretty much ignoring it means you have not thoroughly tested the game.

It's hardly a case of ignoring it - it's just very difficult to give it a solid run in six months of play. However, I did have one situation where a side made a bid for a player, which I accepted, but the player rejected. They then made a higher bid to me, even though I accepted a lower one before. Again the player rejected, and they raised their bid still higher. That's completely nonsensical and hardly a promising sign.

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I can't see any reason why I wouldn't buy FM10 as I have been thoroughly impressed with FM09. None of the reported bugs have been a big hinderance to me and patch 9.2.0 has really made the game great.

Which is perhaps why I aimed the thread at people who did not enjoy or buy the game. Obviously those who were satisfied with it would find fewer things that need to improve.

If I was going to choose one thing that I would like to see improved, however, then I would go along with your comments on the press conference questions. They do need work, but for a first effort it is a damn good addition to the game.

The thing is that it isn't really that new, since responses to media questions have been just as limited and repetitive in the last few versions. The difference is that they are now bunched together.

Again, the solution is unintuitive. If the issue is a gap between the defence and midfield, one logical solution would be to play a defensive midfielder. That does not work.

Yes, I find this very irritating. If I play a DM between midfield and defence, then there's too big a gap between attack and midfield. I move the wingers inside and there's too much space on the wings etc etc etc. You go round and round in circles and your assistant never seems happy with the positioning of players, and at the same time provides no insight as to how to correct these problems.

For the first time in a long time, I have absolutely no interest in FM.

- Match engine inadequacies.

- 2D change.

- Game difficulty.

- Over reliance on OI.

- Ass man feedback and it's shortcomings.

Have all went some way towards me disliking this game.

You guys probably won't want to hear this, or you'll shoot me down, but my defensive midfielder is one of the players I'm happiest with. He sweeps up beautifully in front of the back for and his passing is awesome (though I do recognise that's down to his passing attribute rather than because defensive midfielders work well).

For the first time in a long time, I have absolutely no interest in FM.

- Match engine inadequacies.

- 2D change.

- Game difficulty.

- Over reliance on OI.

- Ass man feedback and it's shortcomings.

Have all went some way towards me disliking this game.

Forgive me if I am speaking out of turn, but I have a feeling with you that if it wasn't so difficult, you'd find the other things easier to live with. Any truth in that?

"Assistant Manager: Suggestions need to be vastly improved. Many are obscure (gap between midfield and defence, for instance) with none of the obvious solutions making the comment go away, and no feedback as to potential solutions. Indeed, that's a common issue when a player is listed as being unused to a certain tactical style, and changing that style for the individual does not make the comment go away. It's frustrating and unintuitive."

The tactics side of the game is killing it for me hence the reason i havn't bought FM09. A really helpful Assistant Manager feedback could have helped bridge the gap but it fails to do as i hoped it would.

Do tactics really need to be so delicate though?

I watched the Blackpool v Wolves match last night and noticed the commentator said Wolves play the same home, away and against whoever they play. They don't change it because what they do works.

When i heard that i thought, yes but it doesn't on FM09!

Again, the solution is unintuitive. If the issue is a gap between the defence and midfield, one logical solution would be to play a defensive midfielder. That does not work.

Not if you don't alter his mentality. Mentalities for each player should never be too far apart. If you play defenders with a mentality of 4 (defensive) and midfielders with a mentality of 8-10 then the gap between defence and midfield is too big (4). If you shorten that by staggering the mentalities then you will remove the gap.

Trust me. It works.

You genuinely think this form of DRM has prevented piracy of the game? I disagree with anything that makes me jump through hoops having bought a game legitimately.

I never said it prevented piracy, but does any DRM?

It hardly makes you jump through hoops. I have done nothing demanding to install FM. I had a slight wait due to the release issues, but after that it was plain sailing. I could uninstall FM and deactivate an install tomorrow and I doubt it would set me back enormously.

I'm sorry, but I will never understand people who refuse to buy games because of DRM. There will come a time when every game has DRM. Will those people refuse to play games?

Which is perhaps why I aimed the thread at people who did not enjoy or buy the game. Obviously those who were satisfied with it would find fewer things that need to improve.

The thing is that it isn't really that new, since responses to media questions have been just as limited and repetitive in the last few versions. The difference is that they are now bunched together.

It's a valid question for everyone. I wasn't trying to be awkward with my comments, it was merely a lead in to what I wanted to say.

You made a good post because you were constructive about what you said, so I'm sorry if it sounded like I was nit-picking. As you can tell, I may not agree with you, and maybe I didn't need to post, but I wanted to point a few things out that I felt maybe you were being too harsh on.

Maybe I can change your mind about the game. You might even thank me later.

Oh, and I feel the press conferences and the player/manager interaction are completely different tools. They can be used seperately, i.e. you can use a press conference to get across your thoughts and then go to the papers (figuratively speaking) with a manager comment. Same can be said with players. They'll know how you feel from press conferences, but you can use player interaction too.

Major issues with this release have been:

- Activation problems

- 9.0.0 had game-breaking and immersion breaking bugs (amount of injuries, lack of compatibility with lots of machines)

- 9.0.1 had game-breaking and immersion breaking bugs (Serie C cup, multiplayer games across platforms giving matches different results, continued lack of compatibility, striker ratings, goalkeeper super through-ball)

- 9.0.2 has game-breaking and immersion breaking bugs (Midfielders and Attacking Midfielder average ratings, AI wonder wingers, Wonderkids being released on a free, still major problems with multiplayer games cross-platform, classic 2D incredibly jerky)

I've missed out loads of other current bugs and issues.

Just for the record, I have been moderately successful across all of the 9.0 versions, despite the problems I have still been able to play the "game" to a degree and win.

90% of the game is perfect, and is far beyond anythign else any of the competitor games offer, however I have now shelved the game until 9.3 in hope that the bugs are ironed out in order for me to play it to the standards I expect.

The problem being that say 9.3 comes out in Feb to include the January data update and that it actually fixes all of the current issues. That's a third of the year gone before I've been able to play the game that I wanted in the first place.

Forgive me if I am speaking out of turn, but I have a feeling with you that if it wasn't so difficult, you'd find the other things easier to live with. Any truth in that?

Oh without a doubt. I'm a self confessed FM glory hunter However, I found FM08 and Europe extremely dificult, but I had my most enjoyable save on it. As for 09, i've had some relative success with Udinese, enough to be pleased with, but it hasn't made up for the other problems i've experienced.

Actually, and this will sound stupid, but I probably wouldn't be bothered with difficulty etc if the 2D from 08 was still there.

I watched the Blackpool v Wolves match last night and noticed the commentator said Wolves play the same home, away and against whoever they play. They don't change it because what they do works.

When i heard that i thought, yes but it doesn't on FM09!

So do I in my current 09 save. I tweak one or two things (such as mentality and defensive line), as I am sure Wolves do really, but I never alter the entire formation. I expect the commentator was being very generalistic and referring to formation rather than individual tactics.

I'm doing very well, and I don't lose huge numbers of away games as opposed to home games. In fact when I did change my formation for a tough away game, to a much more defensive and counter attacking one, I went down like a lead balloon. I soon decided to attack away from home.

The tactical situation in FM09 is different, and possibly somewhat harder to get right than in previous FMs, but it is possible to get right. It just takes a little work.

I may not have sorted it myself, when I found I was having trouble, but it took just a quick read of a very good guide in the tactics forum and now I can create efficient tactics along a basic guideline. I don't really do much different from FM08 to be honest. I think SI just made mentalities more influential this time round.

game-breaking

I'm sorry but nothing is game-breaking. Game-breaking suggests that it causes the game to be unplayable and no mass bug does that. There may be a few incidents of people unable to play the game for some specific reason but there is always that with any game.

I think you need to refrain from using game-breaking.

The injuries bug in 9.0.0 was definitely game-breaking, in my opinion. Strikers not scoring was close to it. I don't consider anything in 9.2.0 to be game-breaking, though.

I'm sorry but nothing is game-breaking. Game-breaking suggests that it causes the game to be unplayable and no mass bug does that. There may be a few incidents of people unable to play the game for some specific reason but there is always that with any game.

I think you need to refrain from using game-breaking.

Injuries in 9.0.0 was categorically game breaking!

Serie C bug is game-breaking

Incompatability with machines that are equal to or above the minimum specs is game-breaking

Amount of crashes that people are/have experienced are game-breaking

No, it is definitely the correct term.

I forgot about the Serie C thing. That was pretty game-breaking if you loaded that league.

I'm sorry but nothing is game-breaking. Game-breaking suggests that it causes the game to be unplayable and no mass bug does that. There may be a few incidents of people unable to play the game for some specific reason but there is always that with any game.

I think you need to refrain from using game-breaking.

It depends on the context and game breaking can mean a variety of things to different people, it doesn't have to mean "game breaking" in the sense that the game is absolutely unplayable. Game breaking to me means something that puts someone off the game so much that they won't play it, other people may not feel the same, but to that person the issue is game breaking.

I think you need to refrain from ignoring other peoples opinion.

In Nomis07's interpretation, game-breaking becomes very subjective because for every person whose put off the game completely (and therefore considers it "broken"), somebody else will be enjoying it.

Kinda makes me wonder if it's a good word to use, given that many of us will interpret it in different ways.

The injuries-bug in 9.0.0 was fixed at release.

There is always going to be incompatability issues with people's computers, especially those near the minimum specs. SI can not possibly test the game on every single possible software configuration. How many crashes/incompatability issues are down to the user? Besides, as I said, they are the minority of cases that any game experiences.

The serie C bug wasn't game-breaking because it only affected people who used a certain configuration of leagues. It could be got round.

I'd just like to point out that I have not experienced one crash with FM09. Nor has any bug has ruined my game experience, though I did find the game hard to get into at release (was more me and my choice of club side).

I'd just like to point out that I have not experienced one crash with FM09. Nor has any bug has ruined my game experience, though I did find the game hard to get into at release (was more me and my choice of club side).

I second this, to be honest. Although I didn't have any trouble getting into it.

In Nomis07's interpretation, game-breaking becomes very subjective because for every person whose put off the game completely (and therefore considers it "broken"), somebody else will be enjoying it.

Kinda makes me wonder if it's a good word to use, given that many of us will interpret it in different ways.

IMO it is subjective, but it's no different to the other terms used on these forums, bug, glitch, match engine, representation, issue etc etc are all used by different people in different ways.

TBH my interpretation of "game breaking" is no different to the various interpretations people could have of the term "great feature".

I think you need to refrain from ignoring other peoples opinion.

I'm open to anyone's opinion if it makes sense. CaptainPlanet uses the word game-breaking yet goes on to say that he has played the game and attained a good degree of success. Nothing is game-breaking if that is the case.

Game-breaking is not the word. Breaking leads to broken and FM09 is not broken.

Plus, SI have done a swift job to rectify anything that would lead to broken. How many games get a patch prior to release.

I have to leave this discussion for now. No hard feelings to anyone.

I honestly know what you're trying to see, but I 100% disagree.

The injuries-bug in 9.0.0 was fixed at release.

I know, but out of the box it had a game-breaking bug, admitted to by SI.

There is always going to be incompatability issues with people's computers, especially those near the minimum specs. SI can not possibly test the game on every single possible software configuration. How many crashes/incompatability issues are down to the user? Besides, as I said, they are the minority of cases that any game experiences.

The fact that further patches have optimised the game because it wasn't running on modern PCs. People who could play COD4 and other recent games with no problems were having such serious issues with FM09. You can't blame it all on user error.

The serie C bug wasn't game-breaking because it only affected people who used a certain configuration of leagues. It could be got round.

Of course it's game-breaking, there was no prior warning that you would have to disable this league just to be able to play a game, people lost whole seasons of effort just to find that the game was categorically broken.

I'd just like to point out that I have not experienced one crash with FM09. Nor has any bug has ruined my game experience, though I did find the game hard to get into at release (was more me and my choice of club side).

Just because you didn't personally experience a bug, doesn't mean it isn't there - Many people have had technical issues that aren't their fault, many people have had their game experience ruined but your level of tolerance/ignorance may be higher than other peoples.

My summary a few posts up stands true, there have been serious bugs, some game-breaking, some have been fixed, others persist and this is why there are an awful lot of unhappy and disillusioned people.

I'm open to anyone's opinion if it makes sense. CaptainPlanet uses the word game-breaking yet goes on to say that he has played the game and attained a good degree of success. Nothing is game-breaking if that is the case.

I'm sorry but you've lost me now. You can still use broken things you know.

Game-breaking is not the word. Breaking leads to broken and FM09 is not broken

Broken is subjective.

I'm open to anyone's opinion if it makes sense. CaptainPlanet uses the word game-breaking yet goes on to say that he has played the game and attained a good degree of success. Nothing is game-breaking if that is the case.

Game-breaking is not the word. Breaking leads to broken and FM09 is not broken.

Plus, SI have done a swift job to rectify anything that would lead to broken. How many games get a patch prior to release.

I have to leave this discussion for now. No hard feelings to anyone.

Sorry, but whjat is the word then? Unplayable? Because if we take each phrase to the extreme as you are doing, then every game on earth is technically playable. It's a nonsense argument. Sorry I don't mean that in a bad way and i'm not saying you're wrong and CP is right, but whether the game is not up to standard/broken is open to interpretation.

Championship Manager is playable/not broken, but IMO it's unplayable/broken.

Not sure I like the direction this thread is taking.

I don't think it's heading towards bickering and I just want to make it clear that i'm not meaning to be ignorant in case that's how it's coming accross.

The game's processing needs to be optimized. Having to click the same thing 3 or 4 times is not only frustrating but could be costly as well. Like when the timer is on super fast and I'm trying to get into tactics, I could end up missing like 3 minutes of the game easy. Not a big thing until you concede from a position on the field that you was blatantly going to change. The loading times have been made better but I still think they're too slow. The laggy 2d is a disgrace and if I didn't enjoy the banter of net games so much I probably wouldn't complete a season by myself. The transfer system is still crap. Tactics are getting more and more tedious. Game is crap out of the box, there is almost no point in buying it until Februray. Many things need to be stepped up but we won't get anywhere.

If CaptainPlanet has shelved his copy until the next patch because of issues he has with the game, then I'd say they are game-breaking for him. Ditto for Nomis.

My big gripe at the moment is the movement and positioning of defenders, and once again makes me question the testing processes in place given it's painfully obvious to anyone playing on key highlights how bad this is. Then you have the knock-on effects, which are far too many one-on-ones due to defenders running the wrong way/running on the spot, which leads to far too many chances missed to keep the score realistic. For as big a step forward as a 3D match engine is, it seems we've now gone backwards to 8.0.1 and the same problems that were had with that.

It just seems like every release on 09 has had problems that are picked up within five minutes by any casual user (injuries, then keeper assists, now defender errors). What exactly is the testing process that is in place which doesn't iron out these things?

Firstly, G'day Nick

Assistant Manager: Suggestions need to be vastly improved. Many are obscure (gap between midfield and defence, for instance) with none of the obvious solutions making the comment go away, and no feedback as to potential solutions. Indeed, that's a common issue when a player is listed as being unused to a certain tactical style, and changing that style for the individual does not make the comment go away. It's frustrating and unintuitive.

Totally agree- the gap between mid and defence one irritates me to no end. However some are quite good- the suggestion to close down certain players is excellent.

Media: Much better range of answers, rather than the current “strongly agree” to “strongly disagree”. For instance, if a player criticises an aspect of a manager's style, it's unclear if disagreeing with that is saying that his concerns are unjustified, or that it's the style and he must deal with it. The appropriateness of questions needs to be considered as well – why would a Conference manager be asked his thoughts on the World Player of the Year, and why would his squad gain morale at his answer?

Tbh I've turned the whole lot off so I can't say I have an opinion.

Graphics: Clearing out a few of the graphical quirks would be appreciated. They don't need to look great, but players should have some distinctiveness and everything should be smoother than it is. Also, if commentary only is selected, the graphics should not have to be loaded if you go into the tactics. It's an irritating delay.

Only play in commentary mode, but the flow of it is still appalling- for years now we've had the same strange text sequences that dont lead anywhere ie "Player X cant miss!!!" and then nothing. I'm not entirely sure if the 3D/2D can exist independently of the commentary only mode however.

User Interface: I should not have to close down the formation half of the screen every damned time I get to the Team Selection. I know my formation – I want to see more detail on the players when I'm selecting the side. This is particularly bad if you run the game in windowed mode. There should be a degree of customization as to the default view, or at least some memory of what the user selects

Spot On.

One thing that Ive been DESPERATELY wanting to see however is the development of more variation in long term games- something like the creation of your own unique "football universe" distinct from others'. What I mean is changes to competitions with time in response to certain ingame events, so that for example in 10 years game time the Premiership changes to a four up four down system due to continued success of promoted Championship sides; consequently over a period of time if promoted sides underperform it can revert to 3 down or even change to an 18-team division. World Cups and Euro tournaments might also expand in size or change in format ie Champions League changing to 6-team groups, much like the UEFA Cup has changed in the last few years. However as mentioned these changes aren't hardcoded but occur due to events in YOUR OWN game. This I feel would add more variety to long term games, rather than identical comp formats existing for decades into the future.

For me its simple: A bug free product that is finished at the time of going gold (not simply released) and which offers a no-less complicated but much more accessible tactical experience. If this means an extended public beta, or simply pushing the release date forward to a week or so before Christmas instead of earlier then its all good. But a repeat of this year and in many ways 2008's example of shipping a beta build that has not been properly tested (or has in fact been properly tested but there has not been sufficiently competent time/resource management to fix the issues) and then trying to weather the storm would be a disaster. Especially as we enter economic recession and people really start to think long and hard whether they are getting the best value for money before opening their wallets.

I have made my thoughts known extensively on how (I feel) the game should be less tactically bias and more transparent/player/man management centric but these are subjective or down to personal preference.

Oh and Matt, why not do something for the community? Maybe comission a development blog and keep it updated regularly with interviews, bios, snippets, teasers etc. Put out some youtube material around the office, introduce us to the people who make it happen. Show us how it progresses? Invite some people to the studio and show them round. Humanise S.I. and make us feel like we relate to you and your business more and I would think you'll reap the dividends nicely in terms of recouping some of that lost customer loyalty and good will.

Not if you don't alter his mentality. Mentalities for each player should never be too far apart. If you play defenders with a mentality of 4 (defensive) and midfielders with a mentality of 8-10 then the gap between defence and midfield is too big (4). If you shorten that by staggering the mentalities then you will remove the gap.

Trust me. It works

That's not his point though. The ass man informs us about the gap and us, having read all the tactics guides and threads on here know well enough that this is only about the mentalities. We know all this even before we start the game so this information is quite useless to us. The problem is it's similarly useless to those that haven't read the guides and know nothing about the tactical theories because getting individual mentalities close together is not an intuitive solution to the problem that's being pointed out by the assistant. using a DM is but it doesn't work without messing around with individual mentalities. But the assistant won't tell you that. People that need the assistant to help them will not get any real solutions out of him unless they read the theories. People that have read the theories do not need the feedback because everything he tells them they already know. So who is it actually meant to be there for?

I think most people with agree that the tactics and and the assistant feedback are not very intuitive.

That's not his point though. The ass man informs us about the gap and us' date=' having read all the tactics guides and threads on here know well enough that this is only about the mentalities. We know all this even before we start the game so this information is quite useless to us. The problem is it's similarly useless to those that haven't read the guides and know nothing about the tactical theories because getting individual mentalities close together is not an intuitive solution to the problem that's being pointed out by the assistant. using a DM is but it doesn't work without messing around with individual mentalities. But the assistant won't tell you that. People that need the assistant to help them will not get any real solutions out of him unless they read the theories. People that have read the theories do not need the feedback because everything he tells them they already know. So who is it actually meant to be there for?[/quote']

Well i think you have a point.

Wrt this thread:

I am currently still demoing the game, and will get the full version when patch 3 comes out. Why buy on release? I mean, you know there will be errors until the game is patched, and SI always releases a patch after january transfers! If you knew there would be errors when you purchased, why whine about them? It is your choice when you make your purchase >_>

The game is great, of course not devoid of errors. It is great to me because I have actually had FUN playing it.

The game is great, of course not devoid of errors. It is great to me because I have actually had FUN playing it.

Heh, you'd be suprised how many people don't play the game for fun.

It sounds daft, but I know loads of people who play it for other reasons...

I play it for fun and as a release to all the football information that seems to enter my life on a daily basis. I'm fed my football addiction by the morning paper, football websites I read in the afternoon and Sky Sports News I catch throughout the day. Then you have the actual matches, club and country and the old friend that is Match of the Day on the BBC. Without all that I'd probably not touch FM - sports games really do have it easy!

However, in equal measure I've never played a game that has annoyed me so much! Bugs grate, for sure, but when your team suddenly plays like a bunch of no-hopers and the opposition like Brazil I can tear my hair out. I dont think the Ass Man helps newbies all that much and it doesnt really improve my results (I've played the FM series for a while but I'm no expert). I've had more information from 'fans' than I have anything official.

Therefore I'd like SI to explain to people what X,Y and Z do. This forum is full of small snippets of info, some authenticated and no doubt some down to guesswork. I dont think it should really be like that. That would certainly be a start.

Releasing a product with fewer school-boy errors would be good too. I know that might sound harsh and I do not mean it disrespectfully, but some of the things that go into the release version... it's mental. I'm really hoping the QA recruitment process pays dividends here. If it does not perhaps there is another area that needs fixing within SI.

There needs to be a FM wiki site with more detailed and easily accessible information. Like a giant online manual, broken down into sections.

That would be very good. Ideally controlled by SI/Sega (prefer the former as then it'd come direct from the developer rather than chinese whisper style to other departments). Perhaps SI could call on their more tactically able fans to contribute/maintain the thing.

A lot more of that information should come through the game though. I do not like that in its current state you get little information on why things happen. For starters it'd be nice if the tips shown during processing were improved to show, graphically ala tactics boards, how to achieve certain results. i.e. 'pushing your defence up may see your team caught out by the long-ball' that kind of stuff. Explained with a simple line of text and graphically. Then you should really allow users to cycle through these tips/access specific areas.

Perhaps the wiki and this system could information share.