aging players

In previous versions the players would age so slowly that almost all of them would be still playing like in their prime although they are 35-36 years old.

With this patch it went the other way. I like the pace how their stats start dropping, that is alright, but somehow all the clubs (especially the national teams) get rid of them once they are 32-33.

For example Cannavaro. At the start of the game he is still one of the best defenders in the world, at the age of 34, and that is correct in real life too. But within only 1 season he becomes a mediocre player, and R.Madrid doesn't use him any more.

Exactly the same thing happens all the old stars. For example Galatasaray releases Hakan Sukur at the end of first season, and they replace him with an 18 year old guy from their U18 team, but this young player's attributes are definitely worse than Hakan. Still, they prefer to get rid of Hakan.

Same with Cafu, Inzaghi in Milan, Zanetti in Inter, the list goes on and on.

I think this needs some tweaking.

I wish SI would change their decision and release a final patch (8.03) before moving on to FM09.

In previous versions the players would age so slowly that almost all of them would be still playing like in their prime although they are 35-36 years old.

With this patch it went the other way. I like the pace how their stats start dropping, that is alright, but somehow all the clubs (especially the national teams) get rid of them once they are 32-33.

For example Cannavaro. At the start of the game he is still one of the best defenders in the world, at the age of 34, and that is correct in real life too. But within only 1 season he becomes a mediocre player, and R.Madrid doesn't use him any more.

Exactly the same thing happens all the old stars. For example Galatasaray releases Hakan Sukur at the end of first season, and they replace him with an 18 year old guy from their U18 team, but this young player's attributes are definitely worse than Hakan. Still, they prefer to get rid of Hakan.

Same with Cafu, Inzaghi in Milan, Zanetti in Inter, the list goes on and on.

I think this needs some tweaking.

I wish SI would change their decision and release a final patch (8.03) before moving on to FM09.

I agree, they do drop in stats a little bit to quickly and early. A player like Cannavaro or Cafu could never be at the same skill level as they are at game start if they had aged ingame.

My players seems to start losing their edge from they turn 28-29, but some even earlier. I assume it depends on natural fitness, injury pronenesses and professionalism, but they are supposed to be in their prime at this age. I think it would be better if the points lost in physique was distributed to mental attributes. Better movement, anticipation and decision making i.e.

I guess I suffer from it more than others on my game as I'm managing Athletic Bilbao where I'm limited to buying only Basque players and a star player is a hard to come by. As most of the youngsters take a long time to develop, the time a player is actually at a decent level seems very short. In example my second choice right back, Arbilla, who has now become a very good defender, got his debut when he was 22. I think by the time he is 25 he'll be my first choice right back, which means he'll probably only get a maximum of 5 seasons as a first choice player at top level. I'll probably see the best of him when he's around 27 and he'll start to decline after that.

Yeste was my most important player when he was 27-28, tearing teams apart his his movement and creativity. The season after he lost a lot of his physique and became very ineffective, and in my previous season, at 30-31 years of age, he has been my 6th choice midfielder and I see no point in renewing his expiring contract.

Gabilondo was a reliable winger, but in one season he has gone from being decent to useless. This season alone he has lost 3 points in pace. He turned 31 4 days ago.

Del Horno started losing his pace and acceleration at 27 and is now my slowest defender and having just turned 30 years he is starting to be a liability at the back.

Even the most determined professionals would not last longer then 32-33 at the top level. That said though the slowing down of development and the early and rapid decline of attributes makes the game a lot more challenging. I'm paying more attention to building my team then I have ever done, but it seems a bit overdone.

Absolutely true. However, I don't like to call it "more challenging", but "not realistic". I don't think anybody would prefer the game becoming less realistic for the sake of bigger challange.

Also, it's not just the attributes dropping. Like I said, there must be a hidden attribute that drops even faster, because older players with much better attributes perform worse than young players with terrible attributes. For example I got Tugay from Blackburn to my Leeds team, and he is 37, still having very good attributes (especially mental and technical) compared to all the young midfielders in my team. Yet he sucks. I checked his history, and saw taht he played good for 2-3 months in 2007-08 in premier, then suddenly got dropped out of the first team, and in 6 months after that, now he is even worse than the teenager midfielders in Coca Cola League 1.

Again, I wish SI would sort this out. It is ruining part of the enjoyment.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ben Kenney:

If you could upload examples to our ftp that show the comparison of the change in older players quality that you have described we will take a look at this for you.

So an example of Cannavaro in his 1st season and then an example of Cannavaro in his second season would be excellent.

Thanks </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ben,

I answered this in the bugs forum. Please let me know what you think.

I am in my 3rd season now. In most of the teams you don't see any player above 31-32, and only a few that are 30-32.

Ben, I don't think I need to upload any examples to your ftp, I mean, just check out one of your test games, and you will see what I mean.

I can't believe how testers don't see obvious things like this one sometimes. This is a major flaw of the game.

And sometimes I can't help but think that, you know, these flaws being so obvious, maybe it is a marketing strategy of SI. NEver make the perfect game, always intensionally leave some bugs behind, that's the only way to make sure that people who bought FM08 will also buy FM09, hoping that it will further improve.

I don't know, I'm just a little frustrated with these imperfections I guess. With a little bit of additional effort this game could be perfect for me.

This is insane, and so very annoying!!!

Juventus just put 3 of their top quality players (Camoranesi, Zanetti and Zebina) immediately to the reserve team when they turned 32. For no any other reason then just turning 32!!! They were all still playing very good.

SI, I HATE THIS!!!

Shame on you for not fixing this. Unbelievable, this issue just popped up in patch 8.02.

Why, why, why SI!!!

once you get way in the future players hardly play over the age of 32 which is unlike real life. Many players palay way past this age and continue to play excellent.

most players don't play at top level past 32. You can tell me dozens of players who do, and I can tell you hundreds of players who don't.

For Yeste, he won't be a star at 30 IMHO, he lacks proffesionality, and his physical traits are currently nothing special. Surely in some years they will drop significantly. Do someone remember Julen Guerrero? he was better than Yeste is now, had more proffessionality and he suddenly dissapeared. Fernando hierro lost a lot of physical attributes in few years and played badly last years. Raul is not half of the player he was, just aged 30, del piero lost his star condition long time ago...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by xouman:

most players don't play at top level past 32. You can tell me dozens of players who do, and I can tell you hundreds of players who don't.

For Yeste, he won't be a star at 30 IMHO, he lacks proffesionality, and his physical traits are currently nothing special. Surely in some years they will drop significantly. Do someone remember Julen Guerrero? he was better than Yeste is now, had more proffessionality and he suddenly dissapeared. Fernando hierro lost a lot of physical attributes in few years and played badly last years. Raul is not half of the player he was, just aged 30, del piero lost his star condition long time ago... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

xouman, in real life there are lot of players between 32-35 who still perform close to their best. In this game there are NON. It's not that their performance drops. They just get thrown away as soon as they turn 31-32. Since this is annoying me so much, I searched every team in England, Spain and Italy, one by one, and in a total of 60 teams, I've seen only 2 players at 33 who are still in their first team, and 3 more at 32, and a few 31's. That's about it! This is bulls.it.

Check out AC Milan in real life. Except Pirlo (28) they have nobody younger than 29 in their first eleven (Pato just arrived and changed this).

So, are we saying that the players aged 33+ are still good and the AI doesnt recognise this?

Or are we saying that the players decline so badly when reach 30 they are simply not good enough shortly after?

I had Vieira in my third season, I believe he was 33. He played badly and I had expected him to be good for me for a couple of years. However the whole team was playing badly so I put it down to the team dragging him down. Now it is possible my whole midfield simply got too old to compete! I had Vieira (33), P.Neville (33), Cahill (30/31?) Arteta (28). I think that is a pretty good age to have midfielders myself!

Just need to find out as I have restarted and will have to sell Chuckle 2 and Timmy C soon if this age problem is going to persist!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Evertonbloke:

So, are we saying that the players aged 33+ are still good and the AI doesnt recognise this?

Or are we saying that the players decline so badly when reach 30 they are simply not good enough shortly after? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Both - the ones that are good enough for that level and dropped immediately before their stats begin to plummet. I signed Thomas Gravesen and Paul Scholes in the Jan transfer window and they were 'a good signing for most championship sides'. In August they are now only 'a good signing for most league 1 sides', that's a pretty rapid decent (they're 34)

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by eple:

I think it would be better if the points lost in physique was distributed to mental attributes. Better movement, anticipation and decision making i.e. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Excellent idea

That is most definitely not an excellent idea.

A player does not magically become better mentally because he has lost his zip, schevchenko anyone?

For every elite player who plays at the top into their late 30's, there are many others who, due to the cumulative effects of injuries and natural ageing, must play on at a lower level or retire...

(Forgive the spelling)

Keano

Fowler

Hasselbaink

Sol Campbell

Sherringham

Solskjear

etc etc

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by patsyBlah:

That is most definitely not an excellent idea.

A player does not magically become better mentally because he has lost his zip, schevchenko anyone?

For every elite player who plays at the top into their late 30's, there are many others who, due to the cumulative effects of injuries and natural ageing, must play on at a lower level or retire...

(Forgive the spelling)

Keano - worn out

Fowler - coke head

Hasselbaink - lazy overweight

Sol Campbell - personal problems

Sherringham - never a fast player in the first

Solskjear - injury prone

etc etc </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whats your point gubbs?

If the person who proposed this had his way these players would have magically increased their mental stats to compensate for physical losses.

And it has nothing to do with being 'fast' or not. I think the complaint was the overall decline in physical attributes. Sherringham was always regarded as an intelligent player. You can't have lightening fast players become geniuses to compensate for their loss of pace, life doesn't work like that.

Personally I think the decline in attributes is fine as it is ..

Most players don't go off until 33-35.

I currently have a 36 year old right wing back Pancaro, he's still doing the business.

I agree

Some of the stuff posted along the lines of 'WHY WHY WHY SI' are a bit melodramatic.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by patsyBlah:

That is most definitely not an excellent idea.

A player does not magically become better mentally because he has lost his zip, schevchenko anyone?

For every elite player who plays at the top into their late 30's, there are many others who, due to the cumulative effects of injuries and natural ageing, must play on at a lower level or retire...

(Forgive the spelling)

Keano

Fowler

Hasselbaink

Sol Campbell

Sherringham

Solskjear

etc etc </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sol Campbell is still playing top flight football, has the possibility of an England callup, and is in the FA cup semi-final., iirc?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by IbrahimAliMaher:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by eple:

I think it would be better if the points lost in physique was distributed to mental attributes. Better movement, anticipation and decision making i.e. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Excellent idea </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In my game that happened. Jean-Claude Darcheville is 34 and has like 8 stamina. But is finishing has increased to 18.

I think the aging stars of Chelsea would be obliterated on the game as compared to real life with their successes.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KnightedManager:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by IbrahimAliMaher:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by eple:

I think it would be better if the points lost in physique was distributed to mental attributes. Better movement, anticipation and decision making i.e. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Excellent idea </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In my game that happened. Jean-Claude Darcheville is 34 and has like 8 stamina. But is finishing has increased to 18. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't doubt that but the point is it didn't happen because his stamina dropped.

Ageing chelsea stars? Makelele is their only 'old' player, who at 35 is unable to play in a lot of games and is apparently 'saved' for the big ones

What about goalkeepers? In-game tips say they are supposed to peak at late (and I mean REAL late) twenties until around mid thirties. If they drop off before they even start to peak, then there would be no really good goalkeepers wouldn't it?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by meriadoc:

What about goalkeepers? In-game tips say they are supposed to peak at late (and I mean REAL late) twenties until around mid thirties. If they drop off before they even start to peak, then there would be no really good goalkeepers wouldn't it? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats pretty much as in real life and I don't think anyone has mentionned any issues with goalies in this thread yet

Well, then I'll be the first to mention it. But to be fair, most goalies work best around age 30. Almunia is 30~31, van der Sar is 37(!), Buffon is 29, Kahn was 32 in his prime, Barthez was 31 when he won the World Cup with France, etc. Granted, Cech and Reina aren't that old too, but the majority of good ones seem to hit form at or after age 30. If the game decides that anyone over age 30 is only going downhill, then goalkeepers in this game are in a lot of trouble. They would be in a Catch-22 situation, where you can't hit form unless you age, yet you decline when you hit 30.

To age or not to age, that is the question (for goalkeepers).

I agree that players do drop off a little too early but I think the most noticeable part of it is that playing older players regularly (around once a week) doesn't slow down the "going off" process enough. Surely giving them first team footy would help more than it does.

E.g. my fairly professional target man who just turned 30 and plays 2 in 3 games is suffering from dropping physical stats. I first thought was fatigue but 2 weeks rest didn't help his stats bounce back. I've got good coaches but leave the 1st team on general training.

I just think matches or player form doesn't have enough to do with holding onto physical stats. At this rate he wont last 2 seasons.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">For every elite player who plays at the top into their late 30's, there are many others who, due to the cumulative effects of injuries and natural ageing, must play on at a lower level or retire...

(Forgive the spelling)

Keano

Fowler

Hasselbaink

Sol Campbell

Sherringham

Solskjear

etc etc </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Problem is we're not talking about late 30's are we? we're talking about early to mid thirties if your lucky.

For Scholes or Gravesen for only be good enough for league 1 at 34 (as someone said above) is crazy they would be far better than that.

And the quoted exapmples above:

Keano 36ish and playing in the prem - wont happen in FM08

Fowler 32ish on Liverpool bench - sounds about right with the current FM issue.

Hasslebaink 36 this week I think - going strong in the championship, would not happen in this FM.

Sol Campbell 32 - Start a new game and watch him drop off! I bet Sol thinks he will still be in the prem at 35!

Sherringham 41!!!! - Can you imagine a regen lasting until he 41? Not me, and certainly not in this FM!

Solskjaer - cant really say as I believe it was injury that finished him, not age.

My point is that I believe a professional player with good stamina, natural fitness, and a professional attitude (Like Sheringham) could still be a premiership force at 35, and last even longer if he was prepared to drop down divisions. With the current FM NO-ONE who starts age 30 will be able to play top level football at age 33 and that is the problem.

I'd just like to point out I do love the game still and will just be adjusting my transfer policy to take this into account!!!

In game does seem a bit OTT, consider a Derby team consisting of the following players because bigger teams had got rid of them;

GK: Friedel

DR: Neville

DL: Kaladze

DC: Campbell

DC: Cannavaro

MR: Salihamidzic

ML: Giggs

MC: Scholes

MC: Makele

ST: Kanu

ST: Philips

Now IRL that team would not go down IMO, despite being probably the oldest in Europe. But in FM each player seems to be thrown to the sideline almost immediately and transfer lsited, which seems particularly ridiculous considering some players are synonimous with the club.

I agree, player stats DO seem to degenerate far too quickly when they hit they get to 31+ years old. It needs to be addressed in the next game.

I'm not gonna turn this into an anti-si hate rant like some of you... But here's my thoughts.

I think players do drop off far too quickly when they hit 31-32. I know the vast majority of players IRL won't be great at the top level in a top side, but in the game this is reflected in say players like Ryan Giggs, Fabio Cannavaro, Zanetti etc. playing for the first in-game season (I assume this is because their CA is high), however come the second season their attributes fall to a ridiculous level.

Then one of the following happens:

- They rot in the reserves and retire within a season or 2.

- They are released and retire soon after.

- They move to another club and never play

I've never seen any of these get any games anywhere. A good example would be Thuram... when I was playing in the French League, he moved to a low-table Ligue 2 side in the second season, but didn't even get a game for them!

I know it must be hard as the game engine has to calculate this for every player at some stage, and taking variables into consideration must be hard to manage.

But when you consider a player like Giggs or Scholes not even playing next season, there is definitely amiss with how the game calculates old age.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Evertonbloke:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">For every elite player who plays at the top into their late 30's, there are many others who, due to the cumulative effects of injuries and natural ageing, must play on at a lower level or retire...

(Forgive the spelling)

Keano

Fowler

Hasselbaink

Sol Campbell

Sherringham

Solskjear

etc etc </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Problem is we're not talking about late 30's are we? we're talking about early to mid thirties if your lucky.

For Scholes or Gravesen for only be good enough for league 1 at 34 (as someone said above) is crazy they would be far better than that.

And the quoted exapmples above:

Keano 36ish and playing in the prem - wont happen in FM08

Fowler 32ish on Liverpool bench - sounds about right with the current FM issue.

Hasslebaink 36 this week I think - going strong in the championship, would not happen in this FM.

Sol Campbell 32 - Start a new game and watch him drop off! I bet Sol thinks he will still be in the prem at 35!

Sherringham 41!!!! - Can you imagine a regen lasting until he 41? Not me, and certainly not in this FM!

Solskjaer - cant really say as I believe it was injury that finished him, not age.

My point is that I believe a professional player with good stamina, natural fitness, and a professional attitude (Like Sheringham) could still be a premiership force at 35, and last even longer if he was prepared to drop down divisions. With the current FM NO-ONE who starts age 30 will be able to play top level football at age 33 and that is the problem.

I'd just like to point out I do love the game still and will just be adjusting my transfer policy to take this into account!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly my point! I couldn't have agreed with you more.

And yes, I still like to play this game, and I play by adjusting my transfer policy by taking this totaly unrealistic "game rule" into account, the game rule being "any player, reagrdless of character and genetics, will start dropping down in attributes and performance drastically once he hits 31, and nobody will last older than 33".

And I can't believe how some people on this thread can talk in the favor of this game rule. Does it make any sense to them that every star player in the game, having a salary of $150,000/week for example, settles for $2,500/game in his next contract? This is what happens in the game, because the drop is so f.cking drastic!

Just look at this fact: When the game first starts, there are many players in their mid30'ies who play for premiership teams, right? So, doesn't that mean that actually in real life a professional athlete can still be on top of his game in his mid30ies? Yet, in only 1 season in the game they all become crap. It doesn't matter if they are 33, 34, 37 (like Tugay in Blackburn). Furthermore, several seasons after you start the game, you will never see a player, anyone, who is above 33 and still playing in an AI controlled premiership team.

Hmmm... it is really highly unrealistic old player can have such drastic drop of attributes in a single season.

I can't believe this issue can be missed in 8.02 testing phase. And to make the matter worse, the chance of getting patch 8.03 is as slim as Barthez growing hair on his head.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by patsyBlah:

That is most definitely not an excellent idea.

A player does not magically become better mentally because he has lost his zip, schevchenko anyone?

For every elite player who plays at the top into their late 30's, there are many others who, due to the cumulative effects of injuries and natural ageing, must play on at a lower level or retire...

(Forgive the spelling)

Keano

Fowler

Hasselbaink

Sol Campbell

Sherringham

Solskjear

etc etc </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is true, not all players will become better mentally, and these are the players who drop into lower divisions. However some players recognise that their physical abilities and perhaps technical abilities are not what they were and so adapt their game so that it is not so heavily based on these attributes and instead use the experience that they have accumulated from playing in the top flight or professional football for 10-15 years. Examples of this are Alan Shearer (lost his pace but still a potent goal scorer), Teddy Sheringham (fantastic brain even if his legs were going), Alan Stubbs, David Weir. Even Michael Owen, if you compare his when he was 18-19 where he was all pace and dribbling, after successive injuries he no longer has that edge to his game and so has had to adapt in other areas, i.e. he is now more of a goal poacher than a pacy striker.

SI need to change when players peak in FM 09.

In reallife professional players has alot more physical exercise - this area is under massive devolopment these years.. just look how Milan manage to keep Inzaghi, Cafu, and Maldini in excellent form.

In general, all FM players should not peak around the age of 30.

High professional players should get a bonus(+2-3 year) .

I hope SI do this in FM 09..atleast think about

Take a look what Jean Pierre Meersseman, Belgian director of the Milan Lab said after the game vs Arsenal.

"As a matter of fact," chuckles Meersseman when we sit down, "yesterday we had a game, and the average age was 33. We have the oldest team in Europe."

He singles out Milan's eternal captain, Paolo Maldini. "He's close to being 40, and whenever he was running against that kid playing against him yesterday, he was much stronger. He's close to perfect."

What is the maximum age for a top-class footballer? "I think around 40. It used to be 34 at most." Again, that soft chuckle.

and there is more;

When Milan buys players, is the Lab consulted?

"You bet you," says Meersseman. "The last signature on the contract before the big boss signs is mine. On many occasions I said no, and I would say every" - he pauses - "yes, every time, the player did not do very well afterwards."

Why might he veto a player? "Basically alterations in their gait mechanisms, how they jump. But we did sign some players when everybody said: 'You can't do it, he's at the very end.' I can give you a name: Cafu. That was five years ago. He's still here. Because we saw the problem could be fixed."

Having vanquished injuries, the Lab turned to perfecting Milan's players. As each player was different, each needed a different regime. Clarence Seedorf, for instance, was banned from exercising certain muscles as they were already at the desired maximum.

The Lab now thinks this "sensory perception" is the key quality in football.

I understand old layers go down, but in Fm it looks like it is a free fall. There should be a limit to how deep a player's statts can fall. I once saw riquelme on the age of 35 with acceleration 2. That 's just idiotic.

Also: Mental stats should drop: why would Maldini lose any influence? Or why would Inzaghi lose a point in "off the ball"? afther 15 years i think you know where you need to stand to be in a good position. It's like all footballers have alzhiemer startng at the age of 32-33

Last point: Milan Lab should be included in the game. Because it spoils it really when all your Milan players drop like flies while in real life there still good.

If you want to stay the most realistic Management game

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by eXistenZ:

I understand old layers go down, but in Fm it looks like it is a free fall. There should be a limit to how deep a player's statts can fall. I once saw riquelme on the age of 35 with acceleration 2. That 's just idiotic.

Also: Mental stats should should drop: why would Maldini lose any influence? Or why would Inzaghi lose a point in "off the ball"? afther 15 years i think you know where you need to stand to be in a good position. It's like all footballers have alzhiemer startng at the age of 32-33

Last point: Milan Lab should be included in the game. Because it spoils it really when all your Milan players drop like flies while in real life there still good.

If you want to stay the most realistic Management game </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This have to be "shouldn't". So stupid we can't edit ouw own posts

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">High professional players should get a bonus(+2-3 year) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I like this idea. Use the professionalism stat to tone down how harshly the PA/CA or whatever governs the decline affects the player's stats.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by eXistenZ:

I understand old layers go down, but in Fm it looks like it is a free fall. There should be a limit to how deep a player's statts can fall. I once saw riquelme on the age of 35 with acceleration 2. That 's just idiotic.

Also: Mental stats should drop: why would Maldini lose any influence? Or why would Inzaghi lose a point in "off the ball"? afther 15 years i think you know where you need to stand to be in a good position. It's like all footballers have alzhiemer startng at the age of 32-33

Last point: Milan Lab should be included in the game. Because it spoils it really when all your Milan players drop like flies while in real life there still good.

If you want to stay the most realistic Management game </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Riquelme never was fast and I would think his acceleration would be very low at 35 as most players are.

As for Maldini losing a point in influence, surely as his ability decreases his ability to control other players does too. IMO if a players ability drops then his team mates consideration for him as a top player will also drop thus meaning that his influence will drop.

Inzaghi would lose off the ball because the mind goes as well as the head, not similar at all but consider a snooker player at their peak at say age 28, by 42 their stats will have dropped considerably because age in sport brings dicrepency. Also surely acceleration and pace would have an affect on off the ball as it would denote the players ability to achieve a good position and the defenders ability to keep up with them.

Milan lab cannot be in the game because every team would have something similar and it would take forever and tbh in gam you should be doing the Milan Lab job for them.

32-33 does seem a bit young but can anyone honestly say they think IRL the likes of Seedorf, Pirlo, Giggs etc att he age of 34-35 will be playing regularly no matter how good they are. Yes of course Giggs etc are atm but his appearances are few and far between.

Surely coding a that the team should only play a player every so often would be extremely difficult especially given the amount of information and players available in FM.

From the patch notes;

- Adjusted the physical attributes decline for older players to start earlier.

And this is a mistake imo.

Since the opposite is happening in realife..

What I suggest is that; professional players should keep playing at peak level for a longer period of time.

F.eks:

A striker with 19-20 professionalism keep hes 180 PA for 3 additional years(age 28 to 31), and then begin it will begin to drop.

A defender with 19-20 professionalism keep hes 180 PA for 3 additional years(age 30 to 33), and then begin it will begin to drop.

A defender with 14 professionalism keep hes 180 PA for 1 additional years(age 30 to 31), and then begin it will begin to drop.

A striker with 10 professionalism would not gain any additional years, hes ability will begin to drop as soon he reach peak age.

A defender with 5 professionalism will get a -1 year penalty, so when he reach age 29, CA will bgin to drop.

A goalkeeper with 19-20 professionalism keep hes 180 PA for 3 additional years(age 33 to 36), and then begin it will begin to drop.

Other factors like are; general happyness in the club, injuries and how much playtime etc..

Maybe It should be linked to Physiotherapist employed by the club instead.

How an old injury is handled does play a big part in older players i guess.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Joor:

What I suggest is that; professional players should keep playing at peak level for a longer period of time.

F.eks:

A striker with 19-20 professionalism keep hes 180 PA for 3 additional years(age 28 to 31), and then begin it will begin to drop.

A defender with 19-20 professionalism keep hes 180 PA for 3 additional years(age 30 to 33), and then begin it will begin to drop.

A defender with 14 professionalism keep hes 180 PA for 1 additional years(age 30 to 31), and then begin it will begin to drop.

A striker with 10 professionalism would not gain any additional years, hes ability will begin to drop as soon he reach peak age.

A defender with 5 professionalism will get a -1 year penalty, so when he reach age 29, CA will bgin to drop.

A goalkeeper with 19-20 professionalism keep hes 180 PA for 3 additional years(age 33 to 36), and then begin it will begin to drop.

Other factors like are; general happyness in the club, injuries and how much playtime etc.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

These are good suggestions Joor. Like somebody in this thread mentioned, the aging was tweaked for this patch 8.02, and it was an awful tweak. In fact, it was not a tweak, it was a drastic change. A tweak would be really good because I also thought that players were not aging fast enough in the prev version. Now it is the opposite. It shouldnt be to tweak this to perfection. And I can't believe how SI testers can miss this. It is impossible to miss. Maybe they added this tweak in the last second, and didn't do any testing after that ???

SI, this is really ruining the game. Why don't you issue a patch, a quick fix for this? How difficult can it be for god's sake??? i mean, you know how you tweaked it this last time, just tweak it back a little. SI always does this. They always leave some important bugs/failures with the game. I mentioned this before: I started believing that they do this intensionally, to make people wait for new version, hoping that it will be ridden of old bugs.

You guys know what the funny thing is: If I will be asked, right now, would I prefer to give an additional $30 to have FM08 completely fixed, or would I rather give that money to FM09, I'd definitely pick the first option. The game already has enough futures, don't need new ones. I just wish all of them would be working.

Until the introduction of 2D engine, I bought every single version of this game. Of course, me still ebing a teenager was a big factor. But I'm sure I would still continue buying every new version if they wouldn't be so full of bugs. So, for many years I just played the demos, with many bugs, than I continued following the forums, because I wanted to see that people were happy about the game, no major bugs etc., then I would buy the game. Many years passed and it never happened. Finally in FM2007 I saw that people were content in general, so I decided to buy FM2008. Until 8.02 the game was not playable. 8.02 is close to perfection, and honestly I enjoyed playing it, but for 2 seasons only. This aging miscalculation/miscoding put me out of the game. Now I'm waiting for patch 8.03. I really think SI should sort this issue, because I think it would take their 2-3 hours at most because they know what is wrong, and they know how to fix it. If they won't fix it, I'm afraid I won't buy FM2009, unless I will see that people in the forums are all happy about it. I don't know. Maybe I should buy FM2007. What do you guys think?