Explain this price difference to me

I hope that someone from SI Games can explain this to me, since SEGA refuse to answer my questions.

I am a long time supporter of the Football Manager-series, going back to Championship Manager 2. After a years break, I thought I was going to get back in to the game by buying the game from Steam, a service that has come to define PC gaming for me. But I must say that I was astonished and dissapointed by the pricing.

Football Manager 2009 on Steam in North America - 21.35€ + VAT

Football Manager 2009 on Steam in Sweden - 45€ including VAT (40€ now during the sale)

Football Manager 2009 in my nearest retailer - 35€ including VAT*

* For this I need a new DVD-drive for my computer, which costs an additional 20€.

I´m sorry, but am I supposed to just accept this price difference? Not only the difference between US/EURO-steam, but the difference between and Steam? Not to mention that I have to accept dual layers of DRM for this game.

I know piracy is a problem for you, but you hardly encourage anyone but americans to buy your game with this.

I would gladly buy your game if you either set a fair price on it, or give me a convincing explanation for the differences, and the use of double layers of DRM (Steam in itself is DRM). Valve won´t comment the price, SEGA won´t either, so its just you guys at SI Games left. And if you won´t, then you loose a customer. I might come back for FM Live, but not for FM2009 unless someones gives me some response to my questions and this unfair situation.

I dont get your point - if its more expensive in one place, buy it somewhere else.

There are two retailers in my high street that stocked this game - one sold if for £10 more - so i bought it at the other one.

"I dont get your point"

The point is that buying the game through Steam is my prefered choice, but the price is unfairly high. I want an explanation for the difference before I buy the game. As I said, to buy a boxed copy of the game, I need a new DVD drive for my computer.

exactly - so if its your prefered choice - then you have to pay the higher price.

I could have said it was my prefered choice not to have to walk to the other end of the high street - but the difference was £10 - so i have a choice of a short walk and pay more, or a long walk and pay less.

I could have ordered it from amazon and got it even cheaper - but i didnt want to wait so i paid the extra for the convienience.

Same here - want it Direct to drive - pay the steam costs, dont want that - pay the shop price.

I really dont understand your issue. I could say the price of petrol in the UK is unfairly high, and that they get it so cheap in the US - its not going to change anything - different tax rates and everything make it cheaper in one country than another - and its the same here.

The game sells more in certain places in the world than it does in others, and by having a high demand, the price is going to be higher than in places where it isn't. Think supply and demand from a seller's point of view; revenue.

The more demand there is for a product, the price would reflect that as the seller would like to cash in on their product. In places where there is very low demand for it, the price would be significantly lower as the seller would need to do as much as possible to make every sale count. There is already a very low amount of sales in that particular area (compared to an area with higher demand), that it would need to reduce its cost in order to make a profit from the product, otherwise, it's losing money if you think about it.

Supply and demand is what you need to keep in mind. The price of a product will be reflected by both. At least that's how I look at it as I've seen other products in similar situations.

The difference on prices from steam depending on location is a very valid point. It's absurd that it should vary.

But to be honest, you cant take the price of the dvd drive you need into the argument. SI, steam, The UN and the polish goverment have nothing to do with the fact that your hardware isnt up to par.

"then you have to pay the higher price."

Yet again - I want to know WHY the price is so much higher for us europeans then for the americans.

This is the problem:

Football Manager 2009 on Steam in North America - 21.35€ + VAT

Football Manager 2009 on Steam in Sweden - 45€ including VAT (40€ now during the sale)

Does that difference make sense to you? If so, then I can´t help you understand. And my reason for posting the thread is to get an explanation from SI Games or SEGA, not to explain it to you. I don´t want to be rude to you, but that is how it is.

"you cant take the price of the dvd drive you need into the argument."

I am mentioning as an explanation to why I don´t want the boxed copy. That is all.

And why are SI/Sega to blame? Surely Steam set their own prices. Go complain to them.

Everything is generally cheaper in the States.

Can you find an online retailer that will do the game in Sweden? If not, buy from Amazon in UK. It shouldn't cost you much more postage.

DRM is something that could be in effect in more than just a percentage of games soon. Every games company has a right to do what it can to protect their own intellectual property. It's still early days for much of the copy protection we see. It'll improve with time. Personally, I think it's needed, and I'm happy to accept a few problems as most causes none at all.

If you don't like it, don't buy it. Simple.

The difference on prices from steam depending on location is a very valid point. It's absurd that it should vary.

Why?

Two things come into play here - firstly, the exchange rate, which is royally buggered at the moment and making things more expensive in certain areas than it used to be.

Secondly - competition in those areas. For example - in the UK it used to be cheaper to get a ferry over to france, buy a car, pay to have it changed to right hand drive, pay the tax on it and ferry it back - than it was to buy a new car in the UK.

The reason for all that is that all the car companies charged more in the uk, so the price was kept artificially high because of it.

With games, in the US they might all be priced quite cheaply, so to price this game higher just because its made in the UK would be nuts because people just wouldnt buy it.

IF the prices of a computer game are nationally higher, then they will charge more to stay in line.

The issue with steam isnt that its unfair, its just that now we can SEE there is a difference, before hand, we couldnt easily see the difference.

And my reason for posting the thread is to get an explanation from SI Games or SEGA, not to explain it to you. I don´t want to be rude to you, but that is how it is.

I'm pretty sure Steam set their prices. It's probably based on taxes etc. What are SI gonna say about Steam prices other than 'yeah, that's the price' and 'go see Steam'?

This is an issue of Steam, not with SI or SEGA.

I think that if you buy a boxed version you can use the activation key to get the game to download from Steam but you better wait for an official response on this.

I don't think it's fair to compare prices between different currencies and then do a conversion. For example, the game (boxed) for me cost S$58 (around € 28). But nearly 60 dollars on a game is a lot of money here, regardless. Likewise. It may be US$30 but that may be the normal price there, and for them to price it higher might've alienated customers.

I would say you need to direct your frustration at Steam as SEGA/SI will only take a proportion of what it is sold for on steam!

"Surely Steam set their own prices. Go complain to them."

1. I already said that I have contacted both Valve and SEGA, with no response.

2. Steam and SEGA set the price. SEGA has a price that Valve has to pay for each sold copy. Miles Jacobsen of SI Games have said this.

"The game sells more in certain places in the world than it does in others, and by having a high demand, the price is going to be higher than in places where it isn't. Think supply and demand from a seller's point of view; revenue.

I accept that as an explanation for a price difference, but not for a price difference of 100%.

Does that difference make sense to you? If so, then I can´t help you understand. And my reason for posting the thread is to get an explanation from SI Games or SEGA, not to explain it to you. I don´t want to be rude to you, but that is how it is.

You wont get an answer from SI/ Sega, so dont bother waiting.

Im explaining it to you in a sensible manner, and pointing out the truth of the situation.

SI have already 'not commented' on many many steam threads, and they wont make the exception here.

Reposted from my other post to make sure you see the reasons:

Two things come into play here - firstly, the exchange rate, which is royally buggered at the moment and making things more expensive in certain areas than it used to be.

Secondly - competition in those areas. For example - in the UK it used to be cheaper to get a ferry over to france, buy a car, pay to have it changed to right hand drive, pay the tax on it and ferry it back - than it was to buy a new car in the UK.

The reason for all that is that all the car companies charged more in the uk, so the price was kept artificially high because of it.

With games, in the US they might all be priced quite cheaply, so to price this game higher just because its made in the UK would be nuts because people just wouldnt buy it.

IF the prices of a computer game are nationally higher, then they will charge more to stay in line.

The issue with steam isnt that its unfair, its just that now we can SEE there is a difference, before hand, we couldnt easily see the difference..

Take this for example:

Titan Quest Gold (a game I recently bought) on Amazon - £5.05

Titan Quest Gold on Steam - £10.49

Go see Steam.

"Im explaining it to you in a sensible manner, and pointing out the truth of the situation."

Not quite. With your earlier post you only pointed out the obvious.

I said - its more expensive, why?

You said - its more expensive

And I said - again, why?

2. Steam and SEGA set the price. SEGA has a price that Valve has to pay for each sold copy. Miles Jacobsen of SI Games have said this.

Yes and that price takes into account all sorts of taxes and other costs. Steam/Valve then set a price from there.

Go see Valve. If they don't answer then try again. I'm sure they get a lot of emails.

I doubt SI can help you. Especially if your going to be a disgruntled and rude pig.

"Im explaining it to you in a sensible manner, and pointing out the truth of the situation."

Not quite. With your earlier post you only pointed out the obvious.

I said - its more expensive, why?

You said - its more expensive

And I said - again, why?

Because it's more expensive there. He's right and I'll back him up. You just refuse to listen.

"Im explaining it to you in a sensible manner, and pointing out the truth of the situation."

Not quite. With your earlier post you only pointed out the obvious.

I said - its more expensive, why?

You said - its more expensive

And I said - again, why?

Erm....

To make it clear for someone who isnt reading my posts:

1) the exchange rate

2) there is less tax in the US and thus items are cheaper because of it

3) because they can make more money off europeans who are used to paying more

4) frankly, because they can.

"I doubt SI can help you. Especially if your going to be a disgruntled and rude pig."

I am very disgruntled, and I think that I have a reason to be, as I think that SEGA/SI Games are being unfair to me. I dont expect them bring peace to the world, only to explain a couple of things. I think that they can afford that, to a customer since more than 10 years.

What part of "it has nothing to do with SI" do you not get?

"I doubt SI can help you. Especially if your going to be a disgruntled and rude pig."

I am very disgruntled, and I think that I have a reason to be, as I think that SEGA/SI Games are being unfair to me. I dont expect them bring peace to the world, only to explain a couple of things. I think that they can afford that, to a customer since more than 10 years.

Im very disgruntlled that the petrol price in this country is so high.

Frankly - the answer is the same to you as it is to me - IT JUST IS.

Are you being ripped off - probably

Do you have to pay that price - NO

So go buy it cheaper elsewhere - its not SIs fault you dont have a DVD player.

Erm....

To make it clear for someone who isnt reading my posts:

1) the exchange rate

2) there is less tax in the US and thus items are cheaper because of it

3) because they can make more money off europeans who are used to paying more

4) frankly, because they can.

The exchange rate is only a way of looking at pricing if you're looking at bringing a product over/in. Keep in mind the financial difference of both locations and the standards of living in both locations.

Also, just because there is less tax on products within a country, it doesn't make things cheaper there. I'm living in a country where taxes are 20%, significantly more than in some of the nations in North America and things are still cheaper here than they are over there.

There is a reasoning behind everything and the "it just is" argument is not valid, mate. If that was the case, this whole world would of been full of zombie like creatures with no knowledge of anything (meaning us, humans).

"What part of "it has nothing to do with SI" do you not get?"

As I said, I contacted both SEGA and Valve without any respnse. Without an explanation, I won´t buy the game, and SI Games are the last people I can contact. Plus, Miles Jacobsen has commented other aspects of Steam pricing, even though they "don´t have anything to do with it".

Another aspect is that SI Games, not SEGA, are the ones being vocal about piracy and declining sales. I think that a discussion about the pricing of the game is valid on their turf then.

And last, those of you who doesn´t think the discussion is valid, you don´t have to answer. Stop posting, and you will see the thread fall down the forum listing.

You really don´t have to take this so seriously.

You also know that prices for most things are generally higher in Sweden because the standard of living is higher, don't you?

This is a big reason a lot of Brits don't go to Gothenburg for their hols.

Maybe that's your reason.

The exchange rate is only a way of looking at pricing if you're looking at bringing a product over/in. Keep in mind the financial difference of both locations and the standards of living in both locations. ).

Not at all - if a country lists on a certain stock market they have to have their earnings in that currency - therefore they have to convert the dollars/yen/euros into pounds (even if they dont phyiscally do this, they need to list the equivalent in their finances) therefore they have to take this seriously into consideration when pricing abroad.

Also, just because there is less tax on products within a country, it doesn't make things cheaper there. I'm living in a country where taxes are 20%, significantly more than in some of the nations in North America and things are still cheaper here than they are over there.).

Nope - and i never said it was the only issue. Tax is one part and is, for example, the reason why petrol is so expensive - so it is a contributing factor, and not necessarily the cause.

There is a reasoning behind everything and the "it just is" argument is not valid, mate. If that was the case, this whole world would of been full of zombie like creatures with no knowledge of anything (meaning us, humans).

Well you totally missed the part where i said that they would be pricing things to compete in each market place - which was the most important part. They price the game to be in each market - so if games are cheaper in the US, then it will be cheaper there. If games are more expensive in the UK, then they will price it accordingly.

And frankly in this case - 'it just is' is valid because they arent going to change the price for you or me or him.

The only way they will change the price is if people vote with their wallets - steam too expensive - buy it somewhere else.

Problem is, its too easy and people do buy it from there even if it is expensive and thus, it will continue to be expensive.

hey steam has to make money for the booze and strippers at there crimbo parties some how.

i got a copy of FM 09 from game £20 today and spent £20 on Ram so all in all im pretty happy

Havent you noticed that the world is in a global recession and that prices are going up due to the exchange rate.

"You also know that prices for most things are generally higher in Sweden because the standard of living is higher, don't you?"

The price is the same for all countries in Europe, except for England.

"You also know that prices for most things are generally higher in Sweden because the standard of living is higher, don't you?"

The price is the same for all countries in Europe, except for England.

Ok - lets change tack here shall we.

What do you want them to say?

Their only answer will be is that, thats the price, and there are alternatives so buy which ever version you want to buy.

What else do you want them to say??? 'sorry sir, we just realised that its really expensive and we shall change it just for you'

Of course not.

"You also know that prices for most things are generally higher in Sweden because the standard of living is higher, don't you?"

The price is the same for all countries in Europe, except for England.

Well it's actually 42.75 € on Amazon France, so you're maybe better off with Steam.

Guess it's the Euro to Pound Sterling conversion that's causing the difference. never should have joined the foreign currency; everything's best in Britain.

Not at all - if a country lists on a certain stock market they have to have their earnings in that currency - therefore they have to convert the dollars/yen/euros into pounds (even if they dont phyiscally do this, they need to list the equivalent in their finances) therefore they have to take this seriously into consideration when pricing abroad.

nope - and i never said it was the only issue. Tax is one part and is, for example, the reason why petrol is so expensive - so it is a contributing factor, and not necessarily the cause.

Well you totally missed the part where i said that they would be pricing things to compete in each market place - which was the most important part. They price the game to be in each market - so if games are cheaper in the US, then it will be cheaper there. If games are more expensive in the UK, then they will price it accordingly.

And frankly in this case - 'it just is' is valid because they arent going to change the price for you or me or him.

The only way they will change the price is if people vote with their wallets - steam too expensive - buy it somewhere else.

Problem is, its too easy and people do buy it from there even if it is expensive and thus, it will continue to be expensive.

I'm not going to go into breaking down your post as you are just stretching what you said into different directions now.

Your first point about the currency; we are talking about a game here, nothing else and that is why I said that you only look at the currency in that way. The OP was looking at the price difference for that specific game and nothing more.

Tax is obviously a factor, however in your initial post you had stated it in such a way that I quote;

"there is less tax in the US and thus items are cheaper because of it" <- which of course is not true. The way you said it made it sound like it was exactly how you meant it; plain and simple the reason behind the difference in pricing. Always expand on your reasoning while making a statement.

As far as the pricing in each market, let me just say this. Having lived in the States and Canada back and forth for 10 years, the games are not cheap there at all. A new game will range anywhere from $49.99 to $69.99. For others in the world, it might be cheap, but for someone who is making their earnings within that nation, the price is debatable. This brings me back to my point about the financial difference and the standard of living in difference locations.

Lastly, mate, the "it just is" argument is not valid at all, it never is in any scenario. I'm mentioning my point about the reasoning behind everything again. We evolve around reasoning, everything has an explanation behind it that is man-made. Think about that for a second and you will see what I mean. If you apply that theory to things, what is the point in going to school?

And I'm not arguing whether SI should be trying to change the price of the game, I'm simply trying to help the OP get an answer to his question. I've already bought the game and am enjoying it thoroughly.

Tax is obviously a factor, however in your initial post you had stated it in such a way that I quote;

"there is less tax in the US and thus items are cheaper because of it" <- which of course is not true. The way you said it made it sound like it was exactly how you meant it; plain and simple the reason behind the difference in pricing. Always expand on your reasoning while making a statement.

Right - and if you hadnt come in the middle and read my posts BEFORE that - you would have seen the one right up the top that said this:

Two things come into play here - firstly, the exchange rate, which is royally buggered at the moment and making things more expensive in certain areas than it used to be.

Secondly - competition in those areas. For example - in the UK it used to be cheaper to get a ferry over to france, buy a car, pay to have it changed to right hand drive, pay the tax on it and ferry it back - than it was to buy a new car in the UK.

As someone else said - it is so expensive in the euro zone because of the exchange rate. Its no where near as expensive in the US or the UK because those currencies have dived. (its quite expensive on steam in the UK because you pay something silly like £5 in US TAXes on top of the price listed)

Take a look at post #5. I had mentioned all of that with 3 words; supply and demand. Believe me, I read posts before joining a discussion.

Incognito, I guess the only way to find the answer is to keep spamming their inbox with letters till they just can't take it anymore.

Take a look at post #5. I had mentioned all of that with 3 words; supply and demand. Believe me, I read posts before joining a discussion.

So why pick on a post below which was an addition to what I had already said, and make a big point about it which id already covered in posts above????

I'm not going to answer that as you are just going in a different direction, now. I would suggest re-reading the whole thread and see why I started posting about the claims you made. Let's not hijack Incognito's thread.

Arkim: If you keep posting the way you do, feel free to hijack it. I think you have written some very interesting things. Plus, you keep the thread alive for SI Games to spot it.

I'm not going to answer that as you are just going in a different direction, now. I would suggest re-reading the whole thread and see why I started posting about the claims you made. Let's not hijack Incognito's thread.

Too late.

Sorry, i think you just decided to pick on my post cos you were bored. I dont repeat all the information in each post each time, so if you want to pick on one part of one of my posts you need to read and consider all the others.

I listed 4 things, tax was one of those things - and in relation to steam tax IS a valid point. The americans dont pay the same tax on steam downloads as the rest of the world do - meaning that for anyone outside of the states a steam download is something like $7.5 more expensive (Cant remember the exact figure now)

Americans also dont have VAT meaning that although they pay taxes differently, they dont pay specific vat on each purchase - which means in the US games will be 15% cheaper than they are in the UK and 19.6% cheaper than the euro rate.

so there - ive explained the tax issue in the US and dont read this post in isolation from all my other posts - and just incase you do, TAX is not the only reason why its cheaper to buy this game off steam in the US but it is part of the reason.

Too late.

Sorry, i think you just decided to pick on my post cos you were bored. I dont repeat all the information in each post each time, so if you want to pick on one part of one of my posts you need to read and consider all the others.

I listed 4 things, tax was one of those things - and in relation to steam tax IS a valid point. The americans dont pay the same tax on steam downloads as the rest of the world do - meaning that for anyone outside of the states a steam download is something like $7.5 more expensive (Cant remember the exact figure now)

Americans also dont have VAT meaning that although they pay taxes differently, they dont pay specific vat on each purchase - which means in the US games will be 15% cheaper than they are in the UK and 19.6% cheaper than the euro rate.

so there - ive explained the tax issue in the US and dont read this post in isolation from all my other posts - and just incase you do, TAX is not the only reason why its cheaper to buy this game off steam in the US but it is part of the reason.

I never picked on your post at all, mate. I simply joined what I thought was an interesting discussion that was started by Incognito. I don't post on forums because I am bored.

Tax of course is a contributing factor in the difference of the pricing, however not the only factor. Look at post #34, the third paragraph and I've stated that I agree with you as well. It seems as if you are rather confused about something. Don't think that when I posted, I was out to "pick on you", but rather sharing what I think and know on the subject.

I don't see why you feel that I "picked" on your posts. No one here is against you.

Again, let's leave the thread on good terms and not turn it into a fierce competition of "I'm right, you're wrong" as in the forums lately, that seems to be the trend.

Incognito, I guess the only way to find the answer is to keep spamming their inbox with letters till they just can't take it anymore.

Yeah, that'll do it.

They'll probably go and change the price right away, too.

Again, let's leave the thread on good terms and not turn it into a fierce competition of "I'm right, you're wrong" as in the forums lately, that seems to be the trend.

Agreed - ive got flu and a spilting headache so there is a fair chance ive completely misconstrued your posts as something that they are not.

probably the reason steam charge so much is because its in a world of its own, yes there are other sites that sell the game but mostly boxed, steam on the other hand offer direct download and support (supposedly) in the sense that if you wipe your drive the game is always there on the steam network, this type of service is as i said early is in a world of its own without big competitors, thus they can charge what they want.

probably the reason steam charge so much is because its in a world of its own, yes there are other sites that sell the game but mostly boxed, steam on the other hand offer direct download and support (supposedly) in the sense that if you wipe your drive the game is always there on the steam network, this type of service is as i said early is in a world of its own without big competitors, thus they can charge what they want.

Its not, not got competators, there are similar things like 'stardock' but they both have their own games that they distribute and thus they have a monopoly over those games, but not the actual market.

It's a much more simple thing than you realise. Sega/SI state the RRP (Recommended retail price).

The retailer decides what price to set the price at. SI/Sega do not tell the retailer to sell at a specific price.

i wouldnt put stardock anywhere near steam in the way of game distribution,

steam is a pretty niche market

well pretty much everything is cheaper in the US - main reason is their government doesn't rip them off as much

eg why is petrol 48p a litre? and here it's 99