Does form/morale even effect the AI?

I'm sorry but I just don't understand how I can beat the league champions at home 3-0 then go away to the bottom placed outfit and lose 3-0 and do it with 55% posession and 5 ccc.

I think, sincerely the game just seems irrational. Ok to have an off day or a howler now and then but the way crap teams play against me is like they are Manchester United in disguise. They zip the ball around with crisp efficient passing, their strikers all have more pace than my players - who seem to clump up like candy floss and swarm around the pitch doing nothing whatsoever. Wingers go unchallenged as full backs appear to be unable to put in tackles, center backs just run off in the opposite direction. The best bit was when my goalie hoofed the ball into the back of my DC and it rebounded in the net. This happens like 10+ times a season. Or the odd 'own goal' where a player passes the ball into the net from 10 yards. Only he's your DC. Uh?

Sorry this game is broken. It might be perfectly possible to still enjoy it, but there's no logic to it. Why don't the AI teams play _exactly_ the same way as my teams? They don't. They seem to have a magic co-ordinatory bonus special move that just K.O's you faster than Chung Li. What happened to team form? What happened to good players playing well and playing badly but still winning - as good players can? Why do my men fall apart completely every time they have to play away against weaker opposition?

I have tried every formation, every combination of mentality systems. I have tried man marking, zonal marking, closing down, standing off, playing wide, playing narrow, playing fast, playing slow, hard tackling, easy tackling etc etc etc.

Nothing works consistently.

Sorry but I'm done now. I've given this game a hundred hours or more. I've tried saving and reloading and replaying games with NO changes and get completely, radically different results. Ok fine, lots of random variables but it never feels like anything I am doing is directly affecting how my team performs. I just click and pray - I know my tactics are fine but it wont matter because, even with the AI playmaker marked, hard tackled, closed down shown onto the weaker foot, or any combination to combat their technical/physical skills it doesnt seem to be that they play to their level! I can't build tactics around assumptions e.g. tall player marking short player at set pieces - doesnt seem to matter they still win the header. I can't put pace against slow forwards, doesnt matter they still run faster. I can't play a holding midfielder, doesnt matter he can't put a tackle in. He just replays the tackle animation over and over and over until either he gets a booking for a 'foul' or the other guy sprints off and scores.

FM 2009 is rubbish. Its so crushingly clever, it even manages to ouwit itself. I really do feel now that I am just playing myself watching myself playing a game. I could probably just put a team out on the presets and get better or the same results.

Even when I micro micro manage my tactics we still only do OK and the AI always seems to have one extra gear to change up and away every time.

Until crap teams start playing like crap teams and the AI starts suffering morale and form problems - whats the point? Seriously? Its not a challenge, its not intellectually stimulating, there is no real skill to it. You just go into every game expecting to lose regardless of your planning or your tactics - sometimes you'll win 10-0 and have no idea why and the majority of the time you'll be chasing the game around and despairing as your 10m midfielder runs around like a headless chicken and the part-timer he's marking buggers off at warp speed 9 towards your goal.

I am not moaning about tactics. Its not tactics that makes the ME so random, its just got too many variables and the results can be too wild. You need to accept that for one match it might be great, but for 38 you may as well roll a dice ..

When I win I have no idea why. When I lose I have no idea why.

9.1 has horrible, nasty evil problems. But 9.2 is just playing itself ..

I'll be back when 9.3 hits the servers.

My tactics seem fairly consistent, obviously there is always going to be spanner in the works games, where against all odds you lose. Southend - Man utd in the cup a couple seasons back, Barnsley v liverpool & chelsea last season, Burnley - Chelsea this season.

It is hard to do it effectively, when you're a struggling team the micro-management works very well (it was essential in my survival season) once you get to the big team status in the division, especially in the leagues like the premiership, these kinds of changes don't seem to have as much effectiveness.

I have seen players with very poor morale often come out almost all guns blazing, taking players on and going for it, when a morale like that suggests he should be lethargic and uninterested, but I don't believe the AI and ME coding has reached a point where it actually truly takes this into account. Afterall, theres no comments in the commentary like:

"Well its plain for all to see that player X's heart isn't in it today, hes not interested at all" etc relating to poor morale etc.

I'm sorry but I just don't understand how I can beat the league champions at home 3-0 then go away to the bottom placed outfit and lose 3-0 and do it with 55% posession and 5 ccc.

I think, sincerely the game just seems irrational. Ok to have an off day or a howler now and then but the way crap teams play against me is like they are Manchester United in disguise. They zip the ball around with crisp effecient passing, their strikers all have more pace than my players - who seem to clump up like candy floss and swarm around the pitch doing nothing whatsoever. Wingers go unchallegned as full backs appear to be unable to put in tackles, center backs just run off in the opposite direction. The best bit was when my goalie hoofed the ball into the back of my DC and it rebounded in the net. This happens like 10+ times a season. Or the odd 'own goal' where a player passes the ball into the net from 10 yards. Only he's your DC. Uh?

Sorry this game is broken. It might be perfectly possibly to still enjoy it, but there's no logic to it. What happened to team form? What happened to good players playing well and playing badly but still winning - as good players can? Why do my men fall apart completely every time they have to play away against weaker opposition?

I have tried every formation, every combination of mentality systems. I have tried man marking, zonal marking, closing down, standing off, playing wide, playing narrow, playing fast, playing slow, hard tackling, easy tackling etc etc etc.

Nothing works consistently.

Sorry but I'm done now. I've given this game a hundred hours or more. I've tried saving and reloading and replaying games with NO changes and get completely, radically different results. Ok fine, lots of random variables but it never feels like anything I am doing is directly affecting how my team performs. I just click and pray - I know my tactics are fine but it wont matter because, even with the AI playmaker marked, hard tackled, closed down shown onto the weaker foot, or any combination to combat their technical/physical skills it doesnt seem to be that they play to their level! I can't build tactics around assumptions e.g. tall player marking short player at set pieces - doesnt seem to matter they still win the header. I can't put pace against slow forwards, doesnt matter they still run faster. I can't play a holding midfielder, doesnt matter he can't put a tackle in. He just replays the tackle animation over and over and over until either he gets a booking for a 'foul' or the other guy sprints off and scores.

FM 2009 is rubbish. Its so crushingly clever, it even manages to ouwit itself. I really do feel now that I am just playing myself watching myself playing a game. I could probably just put a team out on the presets and get better or the same results.

Even when I micro micro manage my tactics we still only do OK and the AI always seems to have one extra gear to change up and away every time.

Until crap teams start playing like crap teams and the AI starts suffering morale and form problems - whats the point? Seriously? Its not a challenge, its not intellectually stimulating, there is no real skill to it. You just go into every game expecting to lose regardless of your planning or your tactics - sometimes you'll win 10-0 and have no idea why and the majority of the time you'll be chasing the game around and despairing as your 10m midfielder runs around like a headless chicken and the part-timer he's marking buggers off at warp speed 9 towards your goal.

I am not moaning about tactics. Its not tactics that makes the ME so random, its just got too many variables and the results can be too wild. You need to accept that for one match it might be great, but for 38 you may as well roll a dice ..

When I win I have no idea why. When I lose I have no idea why.

9.1 has horrible, nasty evil problems. But 9.2 is just playing itself ..

I'll be back when 9.3 hits the servers.

bye for now then

bye for now then

If you have something constructive to add by all means please do add it. If you don't, kindly don't quote huge blocks of text just to add some lame witticism on the end. Not only is it aesthetically offensive, it lowers the tone.

It's had this problem for awhile.

Underdogs tend to play too well. There are too many upsets.

If you have something constructive to add by all means please do add it. If you don't, kindly don't quote huge blocks of text just to add some lame witticism on the end. Not only is it aesthetically offensive, it lowers the tone.

i was replying to the text so i think i was right

My tactics seem fairly consistent, obviously there is always going to be spanner in the works games, where against all odds you lose. Southend - Man utd in the cup a couple seasons back, Barnsley v liverpool & chelsea last season, Burnley - Chelsea this season.

It is hard to do it effectively, when you're a struggling team the micro-management works very well (it was essential in my survival season) once you get to the big team status in the division, especially in the leagues like the premiership, these kinds of changes don't seem to have as much effectiveness.

I have seen players with very poor morale often come out almost all guns blazing, taking players on and going for it, when a morale like that suggests he should be lethargic and uninterested, but I don't believe the AI and ME coding has reached a point where it actually truly takes this into account. Afterall, theres no comments in the commentary like:

"Well its plain for all to see that player X's heart isn't in it today, hes not interested at all" etc relating to poor morale etc.

It didnt always be that way though ..

One of the more realistic aspects of the older FM's was the way a team could carry good morale and form into its next game; good players could carry a bad result as well. It make it fun and added tension when you were desperate to keep your form going.

Now it feels very random, well we know it is because if we save and reload we can get radically different scorelines from the match day variables. I would prefer it if it was a little more consistent: good form or bad form.

I really wish the game would just tell me WHY I lost or WHY they played so well. If my squad mentality is weak, or the players invovled can't handle pressure, or they are just error prone etc.

The not knowing just makes us all paranoid ..

I'm sure there is a reason, but just leaving it all blank is infuriating.

Oh and the lack of AI form/morale is rubbish. I can't be kind about this: if there's no accurate representation of that, what is the point? It really destroys the sense of achievement when you do win because you know if you reload the save you can just as easily have lost heavily.

Oh man, quality post!

I laughed and laughed cause Ive experienced it all.

Iva just faced my team whos 3rd against the bottom one, at home. Last match of the season.

And the bottom team was so sad about their only scorer being banned.

So I set up my attacking tactic, as I use to do at home and against every weak team.

And of course, Ive lost 2-0, I knew it was going to happen, just like Neos destiny in Matrix.

So I played the same match again, but on an all defense tactic and managed to win 1-0, thanks to my keeper.

Im ok with that, now im used to play def about half of the matches, cause I get better results, but it doesnt feel logical at all.

It's had this problem for awhile.

Underdogs tend to play too well. There are too many upsets.

That's not it. It's people not adapting to the different way that an underdog plays against you that causes 'upsets'.

To be fair, it is quite simple to understand how the AI figures it, underdogs sit back, defend & try to counter. Which ultimately results in your team taking long shots. Favourites attack more and leave more space at the back meaning its easier to counter yourself.

I play quite a neutral formation, so it can work against either extremities, but one good thing I've found to do against underdogs is go defensive yourself, it opens them up so much more.

To be fair, it is quite simple to understand how the AI figures it, underdogs sit back, defend & try to counter. Which ultimately results in your team taking long shots. Favourites attack more and leave more space at the back meaning its easier to counter yourself.

I play quite a neutral formation, so it can work against either extremities, but one good thing I've found to do against underdogs is go defensive yourself, it opens them up so much more.

I could agree, but this theory only works on human players, in AI vs AI, 90% of the time, the strongest-attacking team win.

To be fair, it is quite simple to understand how the AI figures it, underdogs sit back, defend & try to counter.

No but really - thats what you assume they would do. In reality I am putting out a sensible formation and they are going at me like funkin belgians; destroying me down the flanks and with pin point passes, my defenders dont or wont tackle and their wingers appear to be on crystal meth. These are players worth 150k in the Swedish 1st division vs my millionaires.

Oh and their finishing/composure 9 striker is banging them in from 15 yards.

That's what bugs me. Not my tactics. Or even theirs.

There is something in tactics, if I go too attacking, or too defensive players like John Terry score a hat trick past me from 30+ yards. I know the frustration you feel, a sensible formation is one thing, but a formation that features both defensive & attacking options in equal balance is hard, sometimes I get it right but sometimes I don't.

I have to focus heavily on scoring though, which doesn't always work, my tactics see me concede against everyone, but they also see me score against them. Although when Keirrison stops with him 100+ goals a season I'm in a mess lol.

I feel for the original poster because ive had the same feeling with fm08

You probable posted this not too long after a bad game

believe me i know exactly how you feel

sometimes it tactics and sometimes its not so nobody better tell me its your tactics

Ive said this about fm08 last year and it is the same problem this year

Its the little flaws in the match engine which make a big difference

For instance your full backs not closing down

for no good reason

it just makes no sense why they would prefer to run along side the wingers than to tackle them

Obviously you could say we should increase closing down but then your full back would be getting dragged out of pos, attempting to tackle players to far away.

Another small flaw which Si cant seem to get right from like FM06 or 7 is how Ai players with crap speed beat players on your team who are consideralbly faster, i can understand how they can have a flukey long shot or once in a while good finishing or whatever

But NEVER , there is absolutely no mental stat , form , motivation or anything you can dream off, that would make someone suddenly start running faster than they should be running . If they are running at 16 and there attribute is only 11 , that is a match engine mistake not tactics

LOL ive completely forgotten what i was gonna conclude on

i think thats it anyway

ps

People need to stop trying to make out that the game is perfect and that it is always the players fault

stop cleaning SIs boots!