I've Come To The Conclusion This Game Has 2 Different Match Engines

I know that this will sound like some bs conspiracy (and the fact that it is my first post doesn't help) but hear me out.

I was very successful in FM08 with my club, Man UTD. I would constantly win trophies left right and center and would get absolutely crazy winning streaks such as 46 games won in a row.

I'm still successful in FM09. I'm in the 2011/2012 and I've won a fair amount of trophies with Man UTD. I've had no crazy streaks and no crazy strikers scoring 50 goals in 40 games. I then stumbled onto a forum thread on a popular FM fansite and it claimed that disabling 3D and playing with the 2D classic camera changes the engine and makes the game easier and more like 08. I thought this was bs until I tested out.

I've been playing the 2011/2012 season only on 2D classic with 3D disabled (not from the very start though) in preferences. I've managed to beat Arsenal twice in 2 games. 2:0 and 3:0. I'm second in the EPL (to Arsenal... of course) but only because I made the mistake of playing a side too weak in 2 matches.

Anyway, since the switch to 2D my forwards have been scoring like they used to in 08 and I've been winning matches by large margins. The game was much closer with the 3D enabled.

If anyone wants me to show off screen caps I will do so upon request. I know all of this sounds crazy (it did to me too) but I say why not try it out? You got nothing to lose.

P.S. And no, it isn't because I've managed to build some crazy team, its almost exactly the same as the previous season.

Commentary only, 2D and 3D are only representations of a single match engine. It'd make the game far too big/much slower if there really were two match engines the game would have to switch between every time someone changed the view in a match.

I dont know I much prefer the challange now,before it was tough with the tactics but now I have tactics sorted I prefer having tough games instead of winning 3 or 4 nil all the time,if it is just the 3d or 2d(very sceptical)then I will stick with the imho the realistic 3d ME.

I agree that the challenge is more fun, I'm just trying to see if other people get the same sort of clashing results that I did.

I don't get this obsession with the 2d view...

Also, my strikers changed significantly recently. Well, one of them did when I got the new patch. My very inconsistant young striker has become free scoring and scored some truly magical goals since then instead of going on 20 hour scoreless streaks.

Ruuuuuuuuuubish.

Whatever website you were reading was a wildly blatant lie.

No more threads like this one...please!

There's only one engine, and more than one way to see the representation of what the engine calculates. It's that simple, there's no conspiracy, changing the view doesn't affect the results, move on.

Well OP it's just not true. Why would SI bother making 2 match engines; they would rather use the additional time to think of how to make more money

There's only 1 match engine, and more than 1 representation. Your wins probably made you think otherwise.

Stick to the meds there.

The conclusion the OP has made is just not correct. As others have mentioned here, all views (commentary, 2D & 3D in any view) are all generated by one Match Engine.

I don't know because I play 2D anyway, if that works only with disabled 3D or it should works with enabled 3D but when using 2D as well? If yes, it's bs.

I wonder what match engine does it use when you play it in split view, 2D on one and 3D on the other side :confused:

In short, there is only one match engine. Doesn't matter one bit if you view it in 3D, 2D or commentary only.

The only time the match engine is different is for a game that is not played in full detail.

each view just represents the same calculations done by the match engine. A game in 2D would have the same result and stats as if it was played in 3D

For the record, the game actually does have two match engines.

One for all matches in active and full detail leagues and one for all matches in non-active and low detail leagues.

i experienced the same. i dont manage to win away games in 3d mode(over 2 seasons), but win 95% of my home games. in 2d mode i manage to win away games aswell very weird.

Mirrorkisser, you experienced the same random phenomenon. You did not experience two match engines.

Ackter, don't the non-full-detail resolve mostly based on reputation?

well, i like the 3d mode a lot and think its more challenging, but since the last patch i cant win away games with it anymore. while i can still win away games in 9.2 in 2d mode. once i switch back to 3d-mode i cant anymore.

actually i dont care what the reason for this problem is. i want a challenging football manager, but managing one of the top3 teams in a league and not being able to win away games vs any above average team for 2 seasons is not challenging, but frustrating. and then seeing that i can win away games vs above average teams in 2d-mode makes me really wonder and worry.

Uh... What? It's the same bloody engine!

Uh... What? It's the same bloody engine!

uehmm you can write, so you dont seem to be illiterate. it is the same engine! but the totally different results make NO sense.

Mirrorkisser, maybe you see your tactics better in 2D. Maybe when you play in 2D you focus more and given better team-talks instead of looking at the 3D so much. Maybe it's a coincidence. But you aren't winning because it's in 2D. So stop "wondering and worrying" and get on with enjoying the game

lol y i would love to do that, but not being able to win games in 3d mode just makes me feel like cheating when i win them in 2d mode, like playin a lower difficulty level. there was a period where it was almost impossible to win away games in fm 2008 aswell, but then after a patch it was fixed.

i hope they wont make this game too easy though.

uehmm you can write, so you dont seem to be illiterate. it is the same engine! but the totally different results make NO sense.

Could just be a strange phenominon! Or you make better tactic decisions in 2D?

lol y i would love to do that, but not being able to win games in 3d mode just makes me feel like cheating when i win them in 2d mode, like playin a lower difficulty level.

What do you think would happen if you watch them in split screen with 2D and 3D?

It's really this simple.........THERE IS ONLY ONE, I REPEAT ONE, MATCH ENGINE!!! C'mon!!!

We used to have this debate when 2D first introduced. A lot of people swear that their team do better/worse in 2D compare to text com.

jesus, neilio, if you participate please be so kind to read the earlier posts more careful. we all agree, that there is only one engine by now.

thats a very good suggestion dafuge, i will try that out and see what happens.

jesus, neilio, if you participate please be so kind to read the earlier posts more careful. we all agree, that there is only one engine by now.

thats a very good suggestion dafuge, i will try that out and see what happens.

Mirrorkisser, I was replying to the OP, I don't see where he agreed, maybe others did, he didn't......

uehmm you can write, so you dont seem to be illiterate. it is the same engine! but the totally different results make NO sense.

You should have a finger no further from the "shift" key than about a centimetre or so... Bloody use the thing! Wait, you did... For the word "NO"!

What's happening here is that you got a very unlikely event and with the number of units of this game sold there's more than a decent chance that someone would get better results probabilistically on the 2d engine than on the 3d engine. There probably are more people where this is the case, but most would pass it off as them just being paranoid until one person with a few misconceptions comes along and decideds to make a thread about it, then the very small number of other people who have experienced this will see this and have their beliefs vindicated and from that moment on the 2d engine makes everything better even if from then on there is no difference in the results.

You should have a finger no further from the "shift" key than about a centimetre or so... Bloody use the thing! Wait, you did... For the word "NO"!

What's happening here is that you got a very unlikely event and with the number of units of this game sold there's more than a decent chance that someone would get better results probabilistically on the 2d engine than on the 3d engine. There probably are more people where this is the case, but most would pass it off as them just being paranoid until one person with a few misconceptions comes along and decideds to make a thread about it, then the very small number of other people who have experienced this will see this and have their beliefs vindicated and from that moment on the 2d engine makes everything better even if from then on there is no difference in the results.

uehmmm as i said...i DONT(there goes the shift key again) win any away matches in 3d over 2 and a half seasons now, while i manage to win them in 2d. and thats no paranoia, but a sad fact which i am willing to prove with screenshots. meantime i win 95% of my matches at home, so you cant really say my team is on a bad run. before i started switching to 2d i had the 5th best away record in the league with not winning any away games, but drawing like 30 % and loosing 70%. i dont know where you live, but that doesnt represent reality in any league of the western world except perhaps kazhakstan. experiencing that over more than seasons since patching and not having had this issue in 9.1. indicates on one hand that it cant be due to different engines in 2d and 3d, but some changes to the engine. my strikers score from all kind of angles in home matches, while although creating a lot of chances in away games rather act like central defenders in front of the goal and hit everything but the net. when i play in 2d mode during away games they all of a sudden score again. this is not a single experience, but a longterm experience. so its no bloody coincidence.

uehmmm as i said...i DONT(there goes the shift key again) win any away matches in 3d over 2 and a half seasons now, while i manage to win them in 2d. and thats no paranoia, but a sad fact which i am willing to prove with screenshots. meantime i win 95% of my matches at home, so you cant really say my team is on a bad run. before i started switching to 2d i had the 5th best away record in the league with not winning any away games, but drawing like 30 % and loosing 70%. i dont know where you live, but that doesnt represent reality in any league of the western world except perhaps kazhakstan. experiencing that over more than seasons since patching and not having had this issue in 9.1. indicates on one hand that it cant be due to different engines in 2d and 3d, but some changes to the engine. my strikers score from all kind of angles in home matches, while although creating a lot of chances in away games rather act like central defenders in front of the goal and hit everything but the net. when i play in 2d mode during away games they all of a sudden score again. this is not a single experience, but a longterm experience. so its no bloody coincidence.

It still might be, statistically speaking it's quite possible. In my game it's always been fine.

Infact my league away record since getting promoted to the premier league (all played on the "3d Engine"):

49 wins in 95 matches so far and a total of 177 points or about 1.86 points per match away from home.

From my experience or anyone I know's experience here, I'd say it's either you or just plain bad luck. Either way, it's not a different engine.

So Mirrorkisser, what is your explanation for this if you acknowledge there is only one engine?

This seems to have died now...

lmao kewell...i joined this thread to get an answer to that question. your not much of a brainiac are you? and you do not really read the posts carefully?

nevertheless...almost at the start of the 4th season and i still dont win away matches in 3d engine, but do manage in 2d engine.

so kewell whats your explanation for that? 4 seasons not winning an away game in the league in 3d mode, while winning like 95% of my home matches?

i feel like cheating when i switch to the 2d engine though, because the ai controlled teams screw up their away games aswell, except perhaps the top 2 teams of the league.

What do you think would happen if you watch them in split screen with 2D and 3D?

lmao kewell...i joined this thread to get an answer to that question. your not much of a brainiac are you? and you do not really read the posts carefully?

nevertheless...almost at the start of the 4th season and i still dont win away matches in 3d engine, but do manage in 2d engine.

so kewell whats your explanation for that? 4 seasons not winning an away game in the league in 3d mode, while winning like 95% of my home matches?

i feel like cheating when i switch to the 2d engine though, because the ai controlled teams screw up their away games aswell, except perhaps the top 2 teams of the league.

Why the attitude? Whatever the reason is for your 'phenomena' it's to do with yourself and your game. It's got nothing to do with the way you choose to view the match. That is a fact, plain and simple. You don't need to insult people just because you choose not to believe this.

That could be interesting. Too bad it's not possible, though.

Oh but it is.

Oh but it is.

How can you do that? I tried selecting Match to both sides of the split view, and every time the other side of the view changed from Match into Overview.

Don't know, just selected match and it worked. It was a replay of the match though, will try it again in a 'real time' match soon as I get to play one.

Edit: tried it and it still works.

Don't know' date=' just selected match and it worked. It was a replay of the match though, will try it again in a 'real time' match soon as I get to play one.

Edit: tried it and it still works.[/quote']

It seems to work in replay for me too, but not in a 'real time' match. I'll do some more testing in the next match.

Edit: Must have been a one-of-a-kind glitch or something, because now it works. In the previous match it didn't.

Why the attitude? Whatever the reason is for your 'phenomena' it's to do with yourself and your game. It's got nothing to do with the way you choose to view the match. That is a fact, plain and simple. You don't need to insult people just because you choose not to believe this.

Oh but it is.

if someone doesnt read my posts and asks me the question that i ask in the thread to sort of diss me, then i feel free to say what i want.

i am aswell not the only one with this issue dear mr. philantrope robin hood. and what kind of theory is that that it has to do with my copy of the game? do you think they sell different copies of the game apart of the international and european version?? and what could it possibly have to do with me? you mean some sort of karmic bad attitude i transfer into the game or some sort of silly vodoo dance i dont do? and y it bloody has to do with the way i view the match. i cant repeat myself over and over again.

and who says its fact because you say its a fact? jesus, give me a break. my results proove that it is exactly the opposite way.

if someone doesnt read my posts and asks me the question that i ask in the thread to sort of diss me, then i feel free to say what i want.

i am aswell not the only one with this issue dear mr. philantrope robin hood. and what kind of theory is that that it has to do with my copy of the game? do you think they sell different copies of the game apart of the international and european version?? and what could it possibly have to do with me? you mean some sort of karmic bad attitude i transfer into the game or some sort of silly vodoo dance i dont do? and y it bloody has to do with the way i view the match. i cant repeat myself over and over again.

and who says its fact because you say its a fact? jesus, give me a break. my results proove that it is exactly the opposite way.

It's a fact because it is a fact. It's also been confirmed by the developers, testers and other people repeatedly, and if you really think about it then it makes a bit more sense than having a secondary match engine coded in just so your strikers wouldn't score in 3D. Your results are an outcome of your tactics, a coincidence, whatever, nothing to do with your copy but the way you play it. Your results don't prove anything because there is nothing to prove. What match engine does the split view presented above use in your opinion anyway? A third one where you can only draw games as a middle ground for people that do not like the additional challenge this secondary match engine of yours presents them?

The difference you're seeing is all in your head, you must accept that and move on. Only then will you eventually be able to enjoy the game in 3D if that is what you'd prefer. For what it's worth anyway, I'd struggle with 3D as well if I wanted to use it. But the reason for that is that I can't follow the game properly in 3D and evaluate my tactics accordingly (and I'd also get too annoyed by the poor quality of graphics, physics and overall presentation). Nothing to do with the match engine.

It's a fact because it is a fact. It's also been confirmed by the developers' date=' testers and other people repeatedly, and if you really think about it then it makes a bit more sense than having a secondary match engine coded in just so your strikers wouldn't score in 3D. Your results are an outcome of your tactics, a coincidence, whatever, nothing to do with your copy but the way you play it. Your results don't prove anything because there is nothing to prove. What match engine does the split view presented above use in your opinion anyway? A third one where you can only draw games as a middle ground for people that do not like the additional challenge this secondary match engine of yours presents them?

The difference you're seeing is all in your head, you must accept that and move on. Only then will you eventually be able to enjoy the game in 3D if that is what you'd prefer. For what it's worth anyway, I'd struggle with 3D as well if I wanted to use it. But the reason for that is that I can't follow the game properly in 3D and evaluate my tactics accordingly (and I'd also get too annoyed by the poor quality of graphics, physics and overall presentation). Nothing to do with the match engine.[/quote']

good god, your an illiterate. i said!! please read my posts that i believe that there is only one engine. i cant believe you cant read, but write. but what i said is that i dont understand the outcome of the games. and its not in my head, if i dont win any away matches for like 4 seasons and 95% of my home matches. its a problem with the tweaking of the game that simulates the home advantage in a too strong way. this has only happened since the last patch and was not there before. before my away games were perfectly fine with the same tactics. i cant believe i have to write that again and again.

and yes, not being able to win away games frustrates me massively. but then i found out that i win them in 2d mode, i dont know for which reason. it just happens. then switching to 3d mode again for the next 10 away matches and i dont win any of them. i played with the 3d mode only for 2 whole seasons and only beat continental trash teams and lower league teams in the cup away, but beat real madrid etc etc easily at home. only like drawin 5 % of my home games and winning the rest. which is pretty unrealistic aswell, unless i am a home tactic god.

good god, your an illiterate. i said!! please read my posts that i believe that there is only one engine. i cant believe you cant read, but write. but what i said is that i dont understand the outcome of the games. and its not in my head, if i dont win any away matches for like 4 seasons and 95% of my home matches. its a problem with the tweaking of the game that simulates the home advantage in a too strong way. this has only happened since the last patch and was not there before. before my away games were perfectly fine with the same tactics. i cant believe i have to write that again and again.

and yes, not being able to win away games frustrates me massively. but then i found out that i win them in 2d mode, i dont know for which reason. it just happens. then switching to 3d mode again for the next 10 away matches and i dont win any of them. i played with the 3d mode only for 2 whole seasons and only beat continental trash teams and lower league teams in the cup away, but beat real madrid etc etc easily at home. only like drawin 5 % of my home games and winning the rest. which is pretty unrealistic aswell, unless i am a home tactic god.

Yes, insults will get you further, good approach that.

Firstly, I'll ask you again, what results do you think you'd get in split view? As it is showing the match in both views, 2D and 3D. Also, what would happen if you start a match in 3D but change to 2D during it? Or vice versa? What happens to all other matches on full detail you won't choose to view?

Seriously, if you actually understood how this game works you wouldn't be rambling on about this. When you start the match what happens is (and that is how it works, confirmed on several occasions again) that the match engine calculates its variables, generates stats, the result and a report. The result of the game and the events during it, given you won't make any tactical changes during a match, is already there before you start viewing it. Every time you make a change, it's recalculated again from that point on. It doesn't know which view you're going to choose so how can the outcome be any different? It can't can it. It would make zero sense if it did anyway.

Why the attitude? Whatever the reason is for your 'phenomena' it's to do with yourself and your game. It's got nothing to do with the way you choose to view the match. That is a fact, plain and simple. You don't need to insult people just because you choose not to believe this.

and who says its fact because you say its a fact? jesus, give me a break. my results proove that it is exactly the opposite way.

Grow up, please.

Look, if you are still getting these odd results then it is total coincidence. You yourself acknowledge there is only one engine so the 3D/2D change can't make any difference.

Capiche?

almost 5 seasons is no conincidence. if i had experienced this with half a season it was something different.

i never brought up the splitscreen argument. i just said it might be interesting. so please read carefully.

i apologise if i offended anybody, but people who do not take the time to read carefully what was said and who said it dont pass my tolerance limits.

in fact i am coming to the conclusion that i am discussing with kids here, so i will stop contributing to this thread as its just a waiste of time.

have a happy new year all!

It is possible to be honest. Not that there is a different engine, that is a clearly ridiculous notion. It is possible that the different viewpoint will give differing results. Here's why:

Computers do not generate truly random numbers, you have to fake randomness. When I was a programmer we used all sorts of things to get a random number such as the position of the player on the screen, the number of lives the player had left etc etc etc. We ran quite complicated calculations to try achieve as random a number as possible. Some parts of the rng (random number generator) that SI use could feasibly be generated in a different way dependent upon the current viewpoint. There are bound to be some very subtle changes because of this and if we could re-create every match with the exact same teams and tactics and run it over a 100 match (or more) test, we could ascertain if there are any differences. The way these numbers are generated is so complicated that nobody would actually know the true difference unless a trace program was run to follow it through, and that is very likely one of the things SI have already done in their own testing.

So if I put the game on 3D but close my eyes, is this another match engine?

It is possible to be honest. Not that there is a different engine, that is a clearly ridiculous notion. It is possible that the different viewpoint will give differing results. Here's why:

Computers do not generate truly random numbers, you have to fake randomness. When I was a programmer we used all sorts of things to get a random number such as the position of the player on the screen, the number of lives the player had left etc etc etc. We ran quite complicated calculations to try achieve as random a number as possible. Some parts of the rng (random number generator) that SI use could feasibly be generated in a different way dependent upon the current viewpoint. There are bound to be some very subtle changes because of this and if we could re-create every match with the exact same teams and tactics and run it over a 100 match (or more) test, we could ascertain if there are any differences. The way these numbers are generated is so complicated that nobody would actually know the true difference unless a trace program was run to follow it through, and that is very likely one of the things SI have already done in their own testing.

halleluja, finally a qualified reply. thanks a lot pdbravo. and please ignore that halfwit posting after you who thinks he has wit.

It all just depends on where SI have got their numbers from. Quite often they will be from the system clock, or whatever variables they've been using lately which you could have altered by such as looking at a player. All these things are very subtle though but I would be interested if someone wanted to do a 100 match experiment, though I certainly couldn't be bothered with it lol