Patch 9.1.0 Vs 9.2.0

Having played the latest patch considerably now, I have come to the conculsion that 9.1.0 is MY preffered version.

For me it is down to two reasons.. The conversion of clear cut chances is a lot more realistic. In the first patch using my tactic I would often create between 4 and 8 CCC per game, converting on average 2 goals per game. Now I seem to create more CCC (between 6 and 12 per game) yet am now only averageing a goal a game.

The second reason is the goals conceaded. First patch opposition CCC came in roughly 2 or 3 per game converting about 0/1. Now they get the same amount of CCC yet are often hitting 100% success rate.

This ain't to bad when your Man U/Arsenal etc, where you will still tend to win the majority of your matches but when your Boro/Newcastle/Spurs it starts to grind my gears a tad being beaten by 10 men Wigan at home.

Anyways, this isn't a moan. This is just some of the differences I have noticed between the 1st and 2nd patch. Some might argue that the points I've mentioned may make the game more realistic and please don't get me wrong, I'm all for realism, but please don't take the fun away.

Its to late for my long term Arsenal save and my extensive network game, but I think I will be reverting back to 9.1.0 and starting a new long term game with Boro.

p.s Merry Xmas to everyone at SI and on these forums. Hope you have a good un.

9.2.0 is streets ahead of 9.1.0. In fact, thanks to 9.2.0, I now know why people complained about 9.1.0 so much.

TBH neither of the ME versions is good enough. There are major flaws in the first release and there are now only fewer major flaws in the current release.

The game just doesn't suspend belief on the pitch - there is far too much random weird. Bizarre player decisions, ridiculous passes, fetching the ball into touch when unpressured etc or the defender back pass to the goalkeeper that goes horizontally out for a corner, the ball crossing the line nowhere near the baseline but still being given as a corner, goalkeepers still not distributing the ball properly or with any variety, ping ping balls off players backs, one on ones etc etc etc etc.

FM 09 is still fun, but its going to have to see some major lovin' in patch 3 to dodge the epiphet of worst FM ever in my (highly personal and no doubt not shared) opinion ..

I'm not sure a few weird match engine things are enough on their own to make it the worst FM ever. But, as you say, that's actually a highly personal, subjective thing. I just go on which I've enjoyed the most, and based on that, FM09 is my favourite by some distance.

Well its both the worst and the best ..

A delicious conflict of interest.

I'm still enjoying myself mind you.

I just wish, really idly and without any real basis in business reality, that they could go to a 18 month or even two year release cycle and really do it properly.

Don't get me wrong Mike. The 2nd patch got rid of alot of annoying bugs or at least toned them down, less keeper set-ups etc.... On the other hand though, it has rendered approx 50% of peoples usually solid tactic useless or far less effective, whilst IMO the AI has got a lot more clinical.

The 2nd patch is probably more realistic, less buggy, but harder (and going of what some people were saying when the game first come out, that takes some doing).

The 1st patch is probably less realistic, more buggy (thats why its the 1st patch), but easier. Its a matter of preferance. Some people find spending hours sussing out the perfect tactic(s) to combat every possible scenario per game. I don't. I like to play one formation, tweak a little here and there and try and impose my football on my opponents, get on with the game, advance as far as I can whilst winning and lets face it, if your not winning I would guess the majority of people aren't having fun which is why I have buying this game for over 12 years.

I may be a little off here, but I seem to remember hearing there would be a third patch and so if there is I will certainly give that a go, I may even give 9.2.0 another try next week, but for the mean time I'm going back to winning games and converting CCC's.

Don't get me wrong Mike. The 2nd patch got rid of alot of annoying bugs or at least toned them down, less keeper set-ups etc.... On the other hand though, it has rendered approx 50% of peoples usually solid tactic useless or far less effective, whilst IMO the AI has got a lot more clinical.

The 2nd patch is probably more realistic, less buggy, but harder (and going of what some people were saying when the game first come out, that takes some doing).

The 1st patch is probably less realistic, more buggy (thats why its the 1st patch), but easier. Its a matter of preferance. Some people find spending hours sussing out the perfect tactic(s) to combat every possible scenario per game. I don't. I like to play one formation, tweak a little here and there and try and impose my football on my opponents, get on with the game, advance as far as I can whilst winning and lets face it, if your not winning I would guess the majority of people aren't having fun which is why I have buying this game for over 12 years.

I may be a little off here, but I seem to remember hearing there would be a third patch and so if there is I will certainly give that a go, I may even give 9.2.0 another try next week, but for the mean time I'm going back to winning games and converting CCC's.

I think you have hit the nail on the head there with regards what people want to play.

Unfortunately, that's not what S.I. want to make ..

Let's be honest they could sell record numbers of 2007 with a new skin, a database update and a few bolt on extras for £25.99 if they were so inclined ..

In fact I wonder why Marketing Matt hasn't posed the question to S.I: why not do something like this? Make a fun/not too realistic game (call it 'Classic' edition or something) for the masses and keep their nerdy micro managed intro-fest 'simulation' in tandem. Rather that than try and fuse the two together into some horrible amalgam of user interface levereged on user itnerface buried in 'can I help' menus and crud designed to 'simplify' the experience.

TBH neither of the ME versions is good enough. There are major flaws in the first release and there are now only fewer major flaws in the current release.

The game just doesn't suspend belief on the pitch - there is far too much random weird. Bizarre player decisions, ridiculous passes, fetching the ball into touch when unpressured etc or the defender back pass to the goalkeeper that goes horizontally out for a corner, the ball crossing the line nowhere near the baseline but still being given as a corner, goalkeepers still not distributing the ball properly or with any variety, ping ping balls off players backs, one on ones etc etc etc etc.

FM 09 is still fun, but its going to have to see some major lovin' in patch 3 to dodge the epiphet of worst FM ever in my (highly personal and no doubt not shared) opinion ..

How could I forget the one on one's. During my Boro game tonight, Alves missed not 1 not 2 not even 3 but 4 one on one's with the keeper..................................... Against Brentford!!! I wouldn't even mind if he was in bad form but he had scored 7 in his previous 11 games and I'm pretty sure Brentford hadn't signed Cech (though I haven't formally checked ).

How could I forget the one on one's. During my Boro game tonight, Alves missed not 1 not 2 not even 3 but 4 one on one's with the keeper..................................... Against Brentford!!! I wouldn't even mind if he was in bad form but he had scored 7 in his previous 11 games and I'm pretty sure Brentford hadn't signed Cech (though I haven't formally checked ).

Well this has been an issue since forever - basically, if you play a certain way and create those kinds of CCC whereby the striker has no great oppertunity to run at the defence/keeper he'll punt it directly into the goalie or sky it every single time.

Its a flaw in the ME to do with angles .. when they are in a certain frame of mind .. its never going anywhere but at the keeper.

I think you have hit the nail on the head there with regards what people want to play.

Unfortunately, that's not what S.I. want to make ..

Let's be honest they could sell record numbers of 2007 with a new skin, a database update and a few bolt on extras for £25.99 if they were so inclined ..

Very true. Such is the loyalty of the typical FM gamer they would purchase the game regardless, me included. I don't blame S.I for trying new things, infact I encourage it. It will get better of that I'm certain. Like I said in my OP I'm not having a dig. I just think that in fixing some things it has led to other issues that are now popping up. S.I should always remember that first and foremost what they are making is a game and as such it should be fun. The difficulty should not be impossible to figure out, hard yeah, but not impossible.

Well this has been an issue since forever - basically, if you play a certain way and create those kinds of CCC whereby the striker has no great oppertunity to run at the defence/keeper he'll punt it directly into the goalie or sky it every single time.

Its a flaw in the ME to do with angles .. when they are in a certain frame of mind .. its never going anywhere but at the keeper.

Wasn't half as noticeable in 9.1.0, saying that I played as aArsenal and Oldham in 9.2.0 and United and Boro in 9.2.0, with varying tactics for each side so that is possibly why.

Very true. Such is the loyalty of the typical FM gamer they would purchase the game regardless, me included. I don't blame S.I for trying new things, infact I encourage it. It will get better of that I'm certain. Like I said in my OP I'm not having a dig. I just think that in fixing some things it has led to other issues that are now popping up. S.I should always remember that first and foremost what they are making is a game and as such it should be fun. The difficulty should not be impossible to figure out, hard yeah, but not impossible.

I honestly don't think it is impossible, it is merely not made intellectually viable: nobody can anticipate every variable. This is designed to be fun/unknown/random but it just bores, distracts or ruins a perfectly good bit of escapism.

Wasn't half as noticeable in 9.1.0, saying that I played as aArsenal and Oldham in 9.2.0 and United and Boro in 9.2.0, with varying tactics for each side so that is possibly why.

I dunno. I think they try to address the faults in a very human way ie. in the least time possible and in such a fashion as to not need six months of testing to whittle out all the complications.

That means you get a hack, someone tweaks a few lines here or there or changes a few integers around until it stops (or starts) doing what the testers think it should.

That means you scoop the marrow from the bone of one beast and ladle it into the maw of another you haven't got a leash for ..

The problem is, that with the release cycle, this method of project management results in the game never getting finished. Unless by chance the magic formula is arrived at.

Then its all change for the next year. Sucks. I wouldn't want to be in the studio as I don't think, sincerely, I'd enjoy the pressure and the relentlessness of that.

I honestly don't think it is impossible, it is merely not made intellectually viable: nobody can anticipate every variable. This is designed to be fun/unknown/random but it just bores, distracts or ruins a perfectly good bit of escapism.

Impossible was the wrong choice of word on my behalf. No game is impossible. What you said is very true. I've just counted how may tactics I've had from my 4 games and 1 network game and it come to a staggering 27 tactics. Of these 7 are original with 20 (had to tweak it so much it changed) saves of the original 7. That is way more than any other FM seriers I have played to date. Should it be that hard?

Who knows? In previous versions a set of 5 or so was required plumbing.

Now it seems we have no real intruction as to how we should be going about it? Do we have one formation and simply tweak the sliders during the match to get the desired result? Or do we need a bag full of insta-mash to plop in the pot and stir until we conceed or bash in a brace?

The big issue seems to be: nobody knows. Its just pot luck (the alternative is so tedious and boring shuffling things around all the time you can't face it anyway) and when faced with a 38 game season and all the other stuff to worry about, you start to wish it didn't matter so much after a time. It just gets too much like work.

Only the nerds and fanboys are into it then and they have a limitless appetite for 'intellectual' stimulation the vast majority of us don't share.

But what should S.I. do? Should they go Commando? Do a Bethesda and castrate the bloody thing entirely to suit the likes of us? Maybe Paul wouldn't enjoy it at all then and he'd call it a day and go and be rich somewhere in southern Italy. Then what?

Actually you know I rather like the idea of divergent products: one based on what everyone loved from the past the best of the CM's and the early FM's and one that is entirely sophisticated and focussed.

It'll never happen - economics. Twice the game twice the overheads, maybe a third extra profit. If that.

But its a nice thought ..

Shame S.I. can't open source the older versions either. Ho hum.

Just have to stick with it and hope they get the message about leveraging some of the Roy of the Rovers back in where they can ..

Who knows? In previous versions a set of 5 or so was required plumbing.

Now it seems we have no real intruction as to how we should be going about it? Do we have one formation and simply tweak the sliders during the match to get the desired result? Or do we need a bag full of insta-mash to plop in the pot and stir until we conceed or bash in a brace?

The big issue seems to be: nobody knows. Its just pot luck (the alternative is so tedious and boring shuffling things around all the time you can't face it anyway) and when faced with a 38 game season and all the other stuff to worry about, you start to wish it didn't matter so much after a time. It just gets too much like work.

Only the nerds and fanboys are into it then and they have a limitless appetite for 'intellectual' stimulation the vast majority of us don't share.

But what should S.I. do? Should they go Commando? Do a Bethesda and castrate the bloody thing entirely to suit the likes of us? Maybe Paul wouldn't enjoy it at all then and he'd call it a day and go and be rich somewhere in southern Italy. Then what?

Actually you know I rather like the idea of divergent products: one based on what everyone loved from the past the best of the CM's and the early FM's and one that is entirely sophisticated and focussed.

It'll never happen - economics. Twice the game twice the overheads, maybe a third extra profit. If that.

But its a nice thought ..

Shame S.I. can't open source the older versions either. Ho hum.

Just have to stick with it and hope they get the message about leveraging some of the Roy of the Rovers back in where they can ..

Well said . Although, with the match engine being used extensivley from FML (so I'm lead to believe) maybe they could go back to having 2 different match engines. FML that will continually evolve, where because you are always playing against somebody else it will require you to spend alot more time tweaking tactics etc and the normal FM match engine that is tried and tested and where bugs only are eradicated as and when. Its a hard process, I've no doubt but I think somethings got to give. At some point (which isn't at the moment for me personally) if it become to random and confusing to play then people will, and judging by some threads on these very forums, have turned their back on the game. I can't see that ever happening to myself. I have enjoyed every FM I have ever played, some more than others. I was enjoying 9.1.0 because I was getting a reasonable level of consistency (bug's n all) where as 9.2.0 has become to unpredictable for my likeing, hence the reason for the switch back.

I've noticed this debate flair up in a number of threads, so please feel free to carry on voting.

definately 9.2.0