New Staff Role - Sport Psychologist

The premise is pretty simple, while im studying I at Uni im becoming more and more aware of the value of psychologists in the sporting world, although not a hugely recognised profession at the moment, it is growing, and maybe its something that future games will look to implement...

It would work on a similar way to the team talk, I mean the psychologist you hire would have ratings in the same way and the rest of the staff do...maybe not the coaching/working with youngsters/goalkeeping attributes but something similar you get the idea...it would take only 1 to be hired at a club, and when players were going through a loss of form (ie: XXXX hasn't scored in over 320 hours) then you could right click on him --> Send to Psychologist...or something along those lines.

It wouldnt be a major change to the game, anything drastically new, just maybe a nice new addition that could be used.

I'm sure most clubs would indeed have someone in this or a similar role, so it would be quite a helpful addition. It shouldn't work 100% of the time though.

Yeah fair enough, I was reading about how someone said that Physios with a rating of below 5 or something could be that they mis-treat someone, you know, so along the same lines, however the Psychologist ratings would be worked out, below a certain level then they are pretty ineffective sometimes.

100% ...the better the psychologist..the better the improvement in mental stats... :-)

Is there any actual major team that uses this practice?

And is there any documented cases of players using said practice developing beter mental "stats"? ie. do they mature quicker and have better judgement?

As far as any of us know its merely a very niche market that has no real value in the real world... or it could be the best thing since the Pint.

I think this is an excellent idea and one that I am pretty sure I haven't seen suggested before.

A lot of sports use psychologists and top level Fotball clubs I am sure will use them more than most.

I just did a quich search for "fotball psychologists" online and was not surprised that there were many responses.

Indeed even the English FA seem to have got in on the act.

http://www.thefa.com/GrassrootsNew/FALearning/NewsAndFeatures/Postings/2004/07/FALearning_PsychologyUpdate.htm

[Edit] It's nice to see some constructive posts amid all the napalm:thup:.

Is there any actual major team that uses this practice?

And is there any documented cases of players using said practice developing beter mental "stats"? ie. do they mature quicker and have better judgement?

As far as any of us know its merely a very niche market that has no real value in the real world... or it could be the best thing since the Pint.

apparently the england squad take along a psychologist with them (according to 442) so it must be quite widespread. although the england example isnt a very good one lol

Jimbokav1971 thanks for the constructiveness and support on the idea, appreciate it.

DougyMarshall I understand that a Sport Psychologist isnt something with huge recognition yet, but the idea I was thinking about wasnt so much to improve mental stats, it could help to get someone out of a form dip, I honestly havent gone into that much detail, but just wanted to lay the idea out there and see how people would react to something that will become more and more effective in the sporting world...as Jimbokav1971 showed with the link.

My grandfather was a Psychologist for the Icelandic football team called KR. So yes even small teams got these staffs.

Im hoping this is something someone from SI might see and think that (if its not already in the plans) it may be something to include

Watford used to have one a few years ago called Kieran Cosgrove who always wore a pink shirt.

On a related note, most top clubs have club doctors who work alongside the physios, could these be incorporated too?

They are used widely in football to help players return from serious / long term injuries, have been used for a long time now in the game, they should be added imo.

Yeah crafty bison cant see why not, I mean its only natural progression and development of the game isnt it, adding more details, becoming more aware of the inner works of the game.

Nice idea.

Oh and crafty bison, I know that for Man Utd one or two of those listed as physios in the game are actually the club doctors. Acknowledged by the Man Utd researcher.

kitman too

from me - at least, unless the idea is much further fleshed out.

Previously, the games that I've seen with this, its been "too simple" - hire the best shrink you possibly can, and things are magically better in your squad.

If you only want it to be that deep, then I'd rather that the psychologist not be a named role and in-game entity; better to simply assume that every team has one, and there is no game effect, the same as we assume that every team has a couple of ball boys and water boys.

To make an "interesting decision" around the concept is a lot harder. What are the downsides to hiring a psychologist? What are the downsides of sending a player to the psychologist?

Well before we go that direction, I'd like to see Player Interaction built up so that I can talk to my players about most of their concerns, to buck them up, to relax them, to assure them that they'll get more playing time next year, etc.

For me... the next staff member added to FM should be.... Groundsman!!!

from me - at least, unless the idea is much further fleshed out.

Previously, the games that I've seen with this, its been "too simple" - hire the best shrink you possibly can, and things are magically better in your squad.

If you only want it to be that deep, then I'd rather that the psychologist not be a named role and in-game entity; better to simply assume that every team has one, and there is no game effect, the same as we assume that every team has a couple of ball boys and water boys.

To make an "interesting decision" around the concept is a lot harder. What are the downsides to hiring a psychologist? What are the downsides of sending a player to the psychologist?

Well before we go that direction, I'd like to see Player Interaction built up so that I can talk to my players about most of their concerns, to buck them up, to relax them, to assure them that they'll get more playing time next year, etc.

Totally fair that, but like I was trying to say in some of the earlier posts, its literally an idea that came to me while I was finishing up revising for my Psych exam and playing FM - just thought I would see what reaction it created amongst you guys.

I understand where you are coming from about the in-game entity, and it could entirely be that in the way you suggest with the ball boys and water boys, but it just hit me that in some way (and I like you have said its not been fleshed out at all) there would be a way to implement the way the team-talk effect goes, and be able to help players recover from serious injury/major form loss...do you see how I mean it from that point of view at least ??...I guess me studying towards a Sport Psychology degree id like to see them added you know ?

Fair enough - I'm not saying its a bad idea. My concern comes more from a game design perspective.

I think if you can answer the following questions, you'll have taken this from "germ of an idea" to "design that the community can debate". Just asking the questions has given me plenty of ideas, but its your baby so I'll let you run with it before weighing in:

How do you make it so that it has enough depth that you can't just "Hire the guy with Man Management '20' and Motivation '20', and you're good to go"?

Would you rather have conversations with your players played out by a third-party entity that you have no control over, or by your manager himself?

If its something you-the-manager have to explicitly activate, how do you keep it from being something that the manager would always choose to activate when given the option?

What specific situations do you want to see the Psychologist address?

Are their PPM's that a Psychologist can interact with?

What are the risks of using a Psychologist?

Does the Psychologist consume a Coach slot, in the board's mind?

Does going to a Psychologist consume training time, as 'learn a PPM' or 'learn a position' does?

What happens if a player doesn't get along with the Psychologist?

We've seen in FM09 how adding something like the press conference has taken time away from the development into the match engine, so much so that a vast number of the FM community are up in arms about how the game fundamentally plays.

With this in mind, I'd sooner wish that FM iron out and go on to improve the current features in the game, before adding any others, let alone ones with a touch of novelty about them.

i dont know if teams employ psychologist's but i know players employ them privately. maybe its one of these additions that while being realistic, takes it beyond fun and becomes tedious...

Hands-up, I havent given it the kind of thought that is being touched on by some of you others. Like I said, it was an off-the-cuff idea that I suddenly realised that I wouldnt mind seeing in there, let me get my Physiologist exam out the way tomorrow and I can think about them some more !

I honestly couldn't answer all your questions, the idea was thrown out there, I presented it, id love to see who can take it where you know...but as for these two I have my own suggestions:

What specific situations do you want to see the Psychologist address?

Your striker hasnt scored for over 4 games and is losing confidence fast, you the manager goes into the Player Interaction menu (for example) and assigns him to the Sport Psychologist...as one example of an issue to address. I guess thinking about it now, the issues dealt with an that we are being taught to deal with are at a much more personal level, ideas and ways to prevent choking on a big stage, but again, having written that, a player could also be asked to see him before a big cup game or the like...the idea is there, the suggestion, but like i said, id love for someone more 'game minded' to adapt or disprove its validity...i dont know...

What happens if a player doesn't get along with the Psychologist?

If they dont get along, then thats something I would have to think about. Seeing your question initially, the first thing that came to mind was the kind of conflict between players. I cant think right now what effect this may have, and then the repercussions on the rest of the team, but something similar I would imagine...im not one for gaming that deep, someone else may have to help me out with that !

Does the Psychologist consume a Coach slot, in the board's mind?

On first thought I would say yes. Its the risk or skill measure you take, similar to thinking 'well, I hardly ever use a sub 'keeper, do I need him or do I dump that slot for another outfield player'...it creates that same element of judgement.

Bumper Post !

Wolves have one, and I'm quite sure psychology is rather more important than not.

The difference between teams and individual ability is quite low IMO and the major difference is the psychologic factor.

That's why I say "No, it's not your tactic, it's your brain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

And that's why Inter Milan just can't win a decent cup while AC Milan do what they like with a squad that is almost as old as Moses.

I like the idea, I think it should be something that only come up when the players need it, such as poor run of form or goal drought.

Im still not sure if they should actually take a coaching role though because (hopefully) they shoudl not actually get used very often.

Reading have one iirc, and Arsenal used one (to great effect ) before their match against Bolton.

pleased with the reaction to this so far !!

Bit debateable as to how it could be used, but I know that I for one would like to be able to send my striker to see someone to help him out after over 9 hours of non scoring...!

Quality post.

The role of the sports psychologist is often overlooked and is extremely important at the top level of all sports. Baseball, Pro Golf and Grid Iron have used them for years. Pretty much every top football team would use one or more these days (not necessarily as a full time staff member though).

They'd be an excellent and realistic addition to FM, their effectiveness could be dependent on the professionalism/temperament of your players and they could potentially enhance your team talks and/or the motivating stats of your coaches perhaps. Or as others had said you could send a non-scoring striker to them.

I'd love to see Regina Brandao, Bill Beswick, Neale Smith, Michael Madison, Rick Wolfe etc etc. in the game!

And that's why Inter Milan just can't win a decent cup while AC Milan do what they like with a squad that is almost as old as Moses.

It's also big reason why England are cr*p on the international stage!

Didn't Glenn Hoddle use a psycologist of some sort in the build up to the 1998 World Cup Qualifer against Italy.

I'd love to see Derren Brown or Paul Mckenna, lol, that would be fun.

This is the last thing SI should be doing.

At this stage in the game's lifecycle and the catastrophic releases in the last few years, they should be tweaking the features they already have rather than introducing a vague new one which will no doubt cause a lot more problems than it will solve.

Ok but you dont need to be too harsh about it !

I get that it is vague, but it was a suggestion for something id like to see in the game at some point, and whether it would be welcomed !

Thanks 'mr pimpnuts' for your comment though !

Didn't Glenn Hoddle use a psycologist of some sort in the build up to the 1998 World Cup Qualifer against Italy.

Was it not Mystic Meg? Or some woman called Irene or something? She'd a crystal ball anyway.

Can we have this as well please?

as long as it doesn't get priority over automated opponent instructions

Didn't Glenn Hoddle use a psycologist of some sort in the build up to the 1998 World Cup Qualifer against Italy.

I'd love to see Derren Brown or Paul Mckenna, lol, that would be fun.

Well, did them and Glenn a whole world of good in the long run didn't it.

...Oh wait.

For me... the next staff member added to FM should be.... Groundsman!!!

Yeah they are actually a vital part of any football team, tottally agree.

Hoddle used a faith healer (Eileen Drewery).

Faith healers (mumbo jumbo) are somewhat different to psychologists (grounded in science).

I'm sorry but I have to say I would be totally against it. To implement something which was a decent feature of the game without being either too ineffective or too effective would take a huge amount of work and effort. What they need to work on is your interaction with the players - if my striker hasn't scored in four games I want to be able to boost his confidence myself, improve the man management side of the game so that you can overachieve by being an excellent man manager, which at the moment I don't feel you can do to any real extent. At the moment it's almost purely down to having the right team and the right tactics.

Artur Boruc needs one

I've always seen sport psychologists as a freelance thing - you don't really hear about a sport psychologist registered to a specific team do you? But you read about teams hiring a sport psychologist for short term team building etc quite often.

You dont hear about them no, but its becoming ever more recognised and the foundations are there to be built on (specifically for the upcoming Olympics over here), and from then onward filtering out into other sports.

In theory, it's a great idea. My only worry is that it'll ruin the first patch of the first game it's included in due to poor implementation.

So as long as it's heavily tested (and beta tested) before hand, great idea.

I think this is a great idea to have in the game. I am not sure how it would be implemented I think it should just help with keeping players morale up when you are on a losing streak could work with some players and not with others.

good idea! maybe u can get them to work with certain players to improve confidence?

maybe it could bit u in the arse if u pick the wrong player to be 'patronised' (in his opinion)

imagine roy keane having a sports psychologist for example

"Is there any actual major team that uses this practice?"

aye mate, the warbury warriors

just cause the game doesn't recognize psycologists on the staff list doesnt mean they're not there ;-)

It is a great idea and one that I feel definitely should be in the game in the future, but I'm skeptical about it all going horribly wrong like some others that have voiced their concerns

perhaps it might be a case of sending a player who it says has personal problems to a psychologist rather than having him on staff, much like sending to a specialist

Pfft, psychologists are nonsense. I want to hire someone who gets players, um, shall we say... "dates."

A much better and proven way of relieving stress.