What the **** is wrong with this game?

watch this match

i am playing with anderlecht. my rival is arsenal. it is the 4th group match in champs leage at home. with my normal tactic which is 442 diamond i lose the match with scores 0-2 or 0-3. keep loading and tring to beat them. but cant. then i got ****ed off and deleted all my tactics. loaded 442defensive standart tactic. let my ass. man. pick the team. and guess what? i won 2-0. my own tactic has specific mentality-passing-closingdown-creativefreedom-tackling orders for all players where the god damn standart tactic has only normal and mixed for all sliders.

i said, if even a standart tactic is able to beat a stronger team with NORMAL sliders, somehow i must be able to design a tactic able to beat them too. am i a so bloody sucking stupid when it comes to tactics?

then, i designed an absurd tactic for just experimentation (you can see it in the match if you watch) which is 2-3-3-2. at the 12. minute of the match i was 0-3 fubar already. biggest goal conceding record of the team was on the way so i closed highlights and replays and set the game speed the fastest to let the match end as quickly as possible. and i won the the match 6-5.

watch this match

i am playing with anderlecht. my rival is arsenal. it is the 4th group match in champs leage at home. with my normal tactic which is 442 diamond i lose the match with scores 0-2 or 0-3. keep loading and tring to beat them. but cant. then i got ****ed off and deleted all my tactics. loaded 442defensive standart tactic. let my ass. man. pick the team. and guess what? i won 2-0. my own tactic has specific mentality-passing-closingdown-creativefreedom-tackling orders for all players where the god damn standart tactic has only normal and mixed for all sliders.

i said, if even a standart tactic is able to beat a stronger team with NORMAL sliders, somehow i must be able to design a tactic able to beat them too. am i a so bloody sucking stupid when it comes to tactics?

then, i designed an absurd tactic for just experimentation (you can see it in the match if you watch) which is 2-3-3-2. at the 12. minute of the match i was 0-3 fubar already. biggest goal conceding record of the team was on the way so i closed highlights and replays and set the game speed the fastest to let the match end as quickly as possible. and i won the the match 6-5.

So you can't beat one of the strongest teams in the game with what is basically a lower-rate Champion's League team at best?

Don't see what the problem is there.

How many times did you try leaving your assistant in control to see what happens?

The amazing, wonderful, utterly unpredictable world of football eh!

Re-run that one match 100 times and it'll never go exactly the same way, no matter what tactics you use.

Test your theory over a season and then we'll talk

I noticed one thing that stood out. You said you play with creative freedom for all players. That can be your own worst nightmare as players might just do too much of their own thing and completely negate your orders.

Okay as Arsenal you have quality players, but perhaps Anderlecht are a strong, physical side against which your tactic does not work.

Your AssMan's tactic may work fine because he counters the style of Anderlecht rather than just relying on creativity and flair.

Football is a complex game and FM tries to recreate that as far as possible. I think the message, therefore, is to read your scouts reports on the next opponent and set your tactics to beat theirs. Changing tactics throughout the match is also a must. As someone said here someplace recently; if they defend you attack, if they attack you defend and break.

Whoops you're Anderlecht and they're Arsenal...just swap what I said.

Theres nothing wrong with the game in this instance. Arsenal are just a much stronger side then Anderlecht.

Jesus.

Christ.

Yawn.

ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..........

It's threads like this that make me proud to be a Fanboy.

I see NOTHING out of the ordinary whatsoever.

And I don't think I'm alone.

...and GD slumps to a new low....fan complains because Anderlecht can't beat Arsenal even with cheating!

why this games gets worse in every year and every patch?

In answer to the Question, "What the **** is wrong with this game", I would say many things but this instance isn't one of them.

i am complaining because i can win a tough match with a very straigthforward standart tactic and with a silly one! where i cant win with my good old 442 diamond no matter how many times i try!

what is the point managing a team if everything is totally unpredictable and random. how the hell i can win a match randomly with a very bad tactic even though i cant win a good one? what is the matrix? who am i? where are we?

okay okay i know all the answers. i am a stupid loser cheater noob who knows nothing about football and ai gaming engines. i must die as soon as possible.

How many times did you try the straightforward tactic?

both of them, only once. i dont deny that its a rare occasion. but please someone accept that it is weird that a team is able to turn the game from 0-4 to 6-5 with an absurd tactic against a superior team.

i kept playing that absurd tactic and noticed that matches end up with at least 3-3 or 4-4 scores. seems like ai determines the outcome of the matches from the beginning instead of real time adjustments to the ongoing match. and this tactic is the reason behind the high-end scores.

whatever, as a newbie to this game, realised that i freaked the **** out too much needlessly.

should have been more patient. sorry to disturb.

Or you could have just been lucky in those two matches.

Your sample group is far too small to make such a judgement on.

<_< You do know your assistant acctually tweaks the tactic during the match right? He plays like the AI, in every sense of the word. However, not being able to beat Arsenal with Anderlecht is hardly surprising....

I just don't see the problem .. arsenal are obviously the better team .. home or away so nothing out of the ordinary when you lose .. but as for being 4-0 down and coming back to win 6-5 .. would be amazing but depends on the changes made at half-time and what the manager says .. plus the other team could get tired or fall asleep on the job .. theres so many things that come into play which i found out about the hard way eg the weather,pitch state,player moral(obvious one) etc anyway best of luck

@ arjuna-one

Here’s a few tactical explanations for your pkm and the various chances and goals.

The first Arsenal goal:-

Unlucky, the random element of the game that decides the success fell in the AI’s favour so after Adebayor’s first shot was blocked he got to it first and had a clean shot at goal.

The second Arsenal goal:-

Evidence of the failing of the tactic. Arsenal are playing attacking and committing both central midfielders forward so the guy you have playing as DM (no16) is basically chasing shadows as Gilberto and Fabregas knock the ball between each other. Throughout the whole match that’s what happened. To be honest I’m surprised the AI didn’t exploit this more often as once one of these midfielders passed by the DM the CBs or FBs got drawn out leaving gaps for through balls to unmarked strikers/wingers.

At 2:44 it’s evidence of how the 50/50 type outcomes the match engine decides can shape a match. Your full back no 4 makes the clearance but Sagna gets to the ball first. If Sagna misses that ball or the clearance is longer in behind Sagna to release your no 8 or if your no 8 wins the ball and beats Sagna then the whole thing could pan out differently.

Look at when Fabregas picks up the ball from Sagna. Look at the gap between your full backs and their wingers. Your defensive line or marking system or defenders mentality setting are creating too much space. This draws the full back no 4 out leaving a big gap behind. So within that setting maybe lowered closing down might not have lead to the fullback getting sucked out but without that the winger would have a clear crossing opportunity. You need to get the balance right so that your FB is better positioned to deal with both possible scenarios.

Mutu passes to Silva and because of the 2 v1 in central midfield he can dink a ball to an unmarked Fabregas. Now because of how deep your defense is sitting Fabregas has a huge gap to strike the long shot from which from observing the match engine is a key factor in governing the success (or not) of a long shot.

The third Arsenal goal:-

Again identical to the second Arsenal goal. If Kjaer’s clearance is longer it gives your winger no 8 a clean run. But whatever determines these things in the match engine didn’t fall in your favour. Sagna picks it up and some quick passes leads to Fabregas picking up the ball with a gap between him and your defensive line and the nearest blocking player when he takes his long shot. Again your single DM against their 2 M C making forward motions is exploited.

The fourth Arsenal goal:-

Penalty 26:24

The lead up again came from the same issues. The 2 v 1 in central midfield, CBs getting drawn out and finally the gap between your full back and Mutu allowing him to slot a simple ball into Adebayor without any pressure.

The first Anderlecht goal:-

The random things went your way and Pareja’s clearing challenge turned into a great through ball. What your tactic was exploiting here was Arsenal’s attacking mindset. You see as the ball goes forward the Arsenal full back Clichy no 22 starts to run forward and thus gets caught out by the quick ball over the top. Also again the 50/50 type thing goes your way as your striker no 20 Vicek reacts quicker than the Arsenal CB no 10 despite being relatively close as the ball gets played. Your striker runs into the gap left by Clichy. I would hazard a guess that you had a fairly high mentality on your AM R (and L) and strikers. When your striker knocks in the rebound again the 50/50 thing goes your way because if you pause the match after the save Frutos does not look favourite to get to it but he runs right by two Arsenal players to knock it in. Has he got higher pace, higher acceleration, higher determination or is it just one of those random game decisions in a 50/50 type of scenario?

Anderlecht second goal:-

From corner 50:18

No real tactical explanation for this with regards to how the corner was won, but the free kick that lead to it was due to a rash challenge from behind on your unmarked AM C from your keepers goal kick. Gilberto’s advanced position in the attack meant he didn’t drop back to the DM position his back arrow on the formation screen indicates quickly enough.

Arsenal fifth goal:-

Again Fabregas more or less alone to bang in a long shot due to a combination of the positional throw in chaos for the defending team (a problem with this version in my opinion) which has your CB no 13 drawn way out of position to mark Adebayor and as a result your no 6 DM gets drawn to marking Arsenal no 26 striker leading to double marking and Fabregas finding himself in acres of space as the scenario plays out.

Anderlecht 3rd goal:-

Again the 50/50 goes your way as Gillet no 14 beats Mutu no 8 to the ball and hits a clearance that exploits the Arsenal LB pushing forward as with the first Anderlecht goal. Now because of this the Arsenal CB gets drawn way out of position, then add in the fact that your AM is advanced ahead of the Arsenal M C partnership you will see 3 of your players in the box versus their single CB when your winger Legear reaches the ball. A quick cross would have lead to an easier chance, but as it was he ran to the byline allowing the Arsenal players to get back. But again the 50/50 type decision went your way as Frutos makes a run away from the CB to the near post and finds himself competing with Fabregas for the header. Would I be wrong to suspect Frutos has a better jumping attribute?

Anderlecht 4th goal:-

This is an interesting one as it demonstrates a flaw in the back arrow for an M C and how this unbalances a 442. It also shows a random thing going in your favour as Fabregas for some strange reason stops chasing your no 6 and this makes it necessary for the Arsenal CB no 10 to rush out of position to challenge. Add to this the marking decision of the back arrowed M C in not picking up your no.7 and doubling up on your no 10 and then your no 29, leaves Chatelle effectively unmarked when he bangs in the goal. If Fabregas had kept chasing and Gallas would not have gotten drawn out then that goal might have never happened.

Anderlecht 5th goal:-

A numbers game as you outnumber the AI 3 to 2 causing the CB to close down leaving a clear through ball. In that situation the closing down settings of Gilberto Silva plus his advanced position when Arsenal lose possession means he does not drop back to the DM position leaving your high mentality AM C to pick up the ball unattended and slot the through ball into the gap left by Gallas closing the AM C down. This particular behaviour is one a lot of tacticians playing this version are exploiting, in fact using two AM C with one striker can sometimes be devastating.

Anderlecht 6th goal:-

Again poor defensive player behaviour at a throw in leads to the clear crossing opportunity and ultimately the goal. Frutos picks it up unmarked, drawing the Arsenal full back out leaving a hole for your AM L Boussouffa to waltz into. How your number 7 scores is a lovely illustration of how in some aspects the 08 engine reflects real life football. If you slow it down you can see Chatelle no 7 check his run and nick in behind the Arsenal CB number 5 who had been marking him.

That pretty much sums up the pattern of that game and your tactic. If the 50/50 things went your way and your defenders got to the ball first and released the quick ball beyond the full back it was very effective. When your team got in possession deeper then with quick passing and one on one player match ups it could create chances. But defensively against a team that was attacking in the manner Arsenal were it was very frail and to be honest if Arsenal had scored double figures I wouldn’t have been surprised. When Arsenal pushed their full backs on you were basically defending with 5 against 8 Arsenal players.

Also interestingly enough the AI switching to long farrows actually helped you because it decreased the gap between your full backs and the wingers and increased the chances of them getting to the ball first. I think if they’d left the short farrows on their wingers there might well have been a different outcome.

Basically it was the roll of the dice in terms of how the 50/50 things I described fell plus Arsenal’s inability to take advantage of outnumbering your side when they attacked which lead to the 6-5 victory.

I’m sure if you look at your other high scoring matches using this ‘absurd’ tactic you’ll see similar reasons for scoring and conceding if those matches are also against teams playing a 442.

As for why your assistant did a better job with a standard formation I can’t say without seeing the pkm but I would hazard a guess that his tactic would have been more balanced than yours in the pkm you posted. That’s the crux of the game as often what makes a tactic so effective when attacking are the same factors that make a tactic defensively suspect. If you’ve got superstar defenders you can get away with it, or if your team is heavily favoured and the AI behaves defensively and commits few players forward again the defensive frailty might not be an issue.

With regards to losing with your standard 442 diamond then if your players were in positions to make challenges etc. then it can be put down to differences in the quality of players and not necessarily unexpected. It’s what I’ve found a lot on this version that if your tactics are right you can get a fairly even match in terms of chances created when facing a superior opposition, but generally the superior quality will tell in their ability to convert chances. Alternatively you can set up defensively, but make sure your tactical settings prevent free long shots like Fabregas had in the pkm, and hit a team on the counter if you have the pace to do this. In those situations you can inflict the ‘I dominate but lose/draw on a regular basis’ syndrome on the AI (but I am never as consistent in the AI at doing it

In a similar vein, I created a quite successful tactic "asEZas442" then tried on random matches managing one teem then going back to the same match & managing the other team. I had approx 90% sucess rate, whoever I selected to play (NB always from same division). Then I tried it over a season and guess what - the AI cracked my tactic. I'm not saying that is unrealistic but i conclude:

a/ you can easily pull off silly / shock results / scores with a well thought out tactic.

b/ You will be found out in time by the AI.

Not re-inventing the wheel I know, but the problem I have is I have a tactic, the AI responds - where do I go from there? The tactic & my players are still those I would want against that opposition but the effect has changed. Its not AI cheating but it is AI developing - and the AI develops quicker than me, hence frustration & poor results, hence Im now playing CM 01-02 again.

To conclude: I can create a good tactic for FM 08, I can over achieve with a team, then the AI responses make me underachieve and I never get back to expctations again (im not talking about winning every game, just par with expectation).

I don't know why I have never noticed something like this in my games (AI cheats, etc.) in 8.0.2

The last season i played in the Serbian league with Red Star, but I weren't that serious and finished second when predicted 1st. The highest scoring game I participated in was a 4-2 win over Mladost. The highest scoring game was an 8-3 victory, and that was the only game with a really high scorelie, wich happens in real life too (Portsmouth - Reading?).

In my current game as Sheffield U, it is the same. I just try to create a tactic for the type of players in my squad, what they are good/bad at etc. That works for me since each team has different players, and bringing a high tempo direct style to a team with good passers and technical players just doesn't work for me. So the main thing to do when I get to a club is to decide what gameplan I should have, and create a couple of tactics and test them out. Remember, this is my personal opinion and it makes me enjoy the game.

I watch and play a lot of football and that is my main (only ) interest, and this game is really my best buy in a long time.

this is a game and it has many bugs ruining manager

beings..Sigames should work hard or i wont buy this game again.

@ isuckatfm

looks like you dont suck that much

The OP does actually have a point. If I'm on a seriously bad run of form and can't win for toffe then I just switch to a default tactic with NO instructions and 'hey presto', we win.

The point is how can a default tactic with NO instructions win you games, it makes a mockery of the system. Granted it doesn't give you any kind of long term success whatsoever but still makes you wonder.

When you make a tactic the AI will take a while to get used to it. If you've got a highly developed tactic the AI will try and counter it in every way possible. So soon every team knows roughly how you play and set up there tactic to match this.

So when your system rapidly changes the AI will not expect it. SO all the things they have tried to counter are not happening. The match will go in your favour as the AI will again try and adjust to match your style of play. They will make changes but it maybe that your early dominance results in goals.

It may work in the next match as the manager of your next opponent may not know your tactics and may not set up to counter. The ingame team instructions are actually instructions and do need countering.

The default tactics will not work for long and you will eventually be countered and will again suffer a dip in form.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by andersonn:

Sigames should work hard or i wont buy this game again. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

and he's been banned for piracy?