Does anyone else feel cheated at times?

I started a new game as the manager of the Italian National team, and while I rarely replay a game, this one match against France left me feeling so so cheated I decided not to take the result.

Basically, I have world class players like Andrea Pirlo sending corner kicks out on the full, Luca Toni and Del Piero missing sitters, Gianluigi Buffon making stupid stupid decisions to come out for the ball, Fabio Cannavaro making suicidal backpasses to the GK in a crowded penalty box full of opposition players.

My midfield cannot piece more than 3 passes together, every possible contest such as headers from free kicks, aerial balls go the opponents way.

To be honest I still have much to learn to take my managing further, but without replaying a single game of my previous save file, I took a 17th placed Sampdoria of Serie A to 3rd, won the UEFA Cup, came 4th the next season and made it as far as the semi-finals of the Champions League.. So I can safely say I'm not an awful manager.

Then why is my World Champion Italian team simply playing as if they want to lose??? Does anyone else feel this game is rigged big time?

It's your tactics.

Not every player will play the same for their country than they do for their club, overrated and overpaid.

Does anyone else feel this game is rigged big time?

The game of FOOTBALL is no different. What's your problem?

Originally posted by happy slappy:

It's your tactics.

Not every player will play the same for their country than they do for their club, overrated and overpaid.

just look at England!!!

Well, having watched Italy play last night I'd say it seems pretty accurate!

Originally posted by happy slappy:

It's your tactics.

Not every player will play the same for their country than they do for their club, overrated and overpaid.

To be honest I doubt it is my tactics. I've analysed each players strengths and weaknesses to try and fit the majority of them with certain focus on my better players.

And regardless of whether players play better for club or country, it doesn't mean world class players such as the ones I've named should be playing like 90 yr olds.

Originally posted by phnompenhandy:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Does anyone else feel this game is rigged big time?

The game of FOOTBALL is no different. What's your problem? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What's my problem? Can't you read?

I've said quite clearly and thoroughly explained that my players seem to be playing abysmally when they shouldn't. Not even being able to take corner kicks. And you honestly cannot begin to compare this to actual football. In FM08 Shevchenko is apparently leading the EPL's top scoring chart, where in reality he's had to endure playing in reserves with Chelsea. No game can very accurately replicate football, but the game should at least let us play/manage it on a level basis. I don't need Zambrotta being chased from his box to the opposition box by Malouda, get tackled by Malouda, have Malouda take the ball from his box to my box, going through my entire midfield and defence in the process, then score a lob from 30 metres with the likes of Gatusso/Pirlo/De Rossi/Cannavaro/Chiellini and Buffon all being spectators.

Its only rigged when it goes against you

Sometimes teams just have a shocker. It happens in real life as well, they go out and look like grannies.

Originally posted by Pokoyo:

I've said quite clearly and thoroughly explained that my players seem to be playing abysmally when they shouldn't.

I had a really torrid time last August/September. My players earned huge amounts of money and theoretically were excellent players in the BPL, i'd finished 5th the 2 years previous yet for some strange reason we found ourselves in the lower half of the table I kept saying that the premier league was rigged because my players shouldn't be playing badly, but they still were. Daniel was having none of it and said it was my tactics.

Yours

Martin Jol

Originally posted by Nomis07:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pokoyo:

I've said quite clearly and thoroughly explained that my players seem to be playing abysmally when they shouldn't.

I had a really torrid time last August/September. My players earned huge amounts of money and theoretically were excellent players in the BPL, i'd finished 5th the 2 years previous yet for some strange reason we found ourselves in the lower half of the table I kept saying that the premier league was rigged because my players shouldn't be playing badly, but they still were. Daniel was having none of it and said it was my tactics.

Yours

Martin Jol </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hilarious

Originally posted by WolvesBestEvaManager:

Its only rigged when it goes against you

I'm asking for advice here, not for insolent attitude.

try a simpler tactic. my experience with FM08 is that players often perform better when i put them in one of the standard tactics with a few minor adjustments.

Originally posted by Pokoyo:

Hilarious

Oh for goodness sake, wind your neck in. I was only joking.

I don't agree that the game is rigged and given your achievements with Sampdoria it seems pretty obvious that you are doing something right. I have the same problems when managing an International team, but have had good success with club teams. One tactic that works with one team isn't necessarily going to work with another and I have won leagues and CL's using my tactic, but when I went to Italy my tactic was useless.

It takes time and if you're actually looking for advice then try the tactics forum. It has plenty of in depth interesting threads that might just be the solution to your problems.

TBH saying the game is rigged just because you're losing is always going to meet with a bad response because it's just not true and as WolvesBest says, it's only rigged when it goes agaisnt you. I don't think he was being cheeky, it's just true, we're more like real life managers than you think and ignre the decisions that go for us, but moan about the game when it goes against us.

oh wow! a "This game cheats" thread not seen one of those before.

I cant believe that there are that many people who are naive enough to think that because they have good player the game is cheating because they are not winning. Just accept it sometime a team can play tactics that completely disrupt yours and vice versa.

I bet if you had demolished france six nil and their world class players had been shocking and not been able to string two passes together you wouldn't be on here complaining, you'd have thought yourself a tactical genius.

Originally posted by Pokoyo:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WolvesBestEvaManager:

Its only rigged when it goes against you

I'm asking for advice here, not for insolent attitude. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You weren't though. You were moaning about how you think the game is rigged, and asking if anyone shared your view. Go back and read your opening post and tell me where in it you asked for advice.

I always feel cheated when I lose, but that's just the game.

Assuming your tactic is fine then your teamtalk may have been the wrong one. Nothing like a badly judged teamtalk to have a team of world beaters playing like numpties.

I know how you feel mate, one game a couple of weeks ago my Blackburn side were beating Derby 3-0 with 10 minutes to go, so I decided to and make myself a cuppa safe in the knowledge that the result was in the bag, I come back in the room, look at the screen and lo and behold I had been beaten 5-3.

Needless to say I had to clean the tea up off the floor.

Originally posted by Grec:

I always feel cheated when I lose, but that's just the game.

WHS

Originally posted by Nomis07:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pokoyo:

I've said quite clearly and thoroughly explained that my players seem to be playing abysmally when they shouldn't.

I had a really torrid time last August/September. My players earned huge amounts of money and theoretically were excellent players in the BPL, i'd finished 5th the 2 years previous yet for some strange reason we found ourselves in the lower half of the table I kept saying that the premier league was rigged because my players shouldn't be playing badly, but they still were. Daniel was having none of it and said it was my tactics.

Yours

Martin Jol </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What is the BPL? Surely you mean EPL?

(I'm sorry it just bothers me when people say Britain when they mean England and England when they mean britian as if Scotland and Wales dont exist. I'm not trying to be difficult and I accept that Nomis may not be british)

yes we all feel cheated at times but its how you let that affect you

for me personally i let myself dwell on it for a couple minutes after but then i move on and lift my players and win! simple

08 is terrible with teams hitting costly bad form, no matter how good they are, which is why I lost patience. I'm in a semi-sabatical as Italy, and although I still manage to top the quali tables, a feat beyond me in club management, I always appear to lose 1 game every time, compared to campaigns that are otherwise mostly a breeze, but they should be anyway. I don't really feel 'cheated' as such, but it does turn me off.

Yeah I was playing as Czech Republic and 2-0 up against Turkey and then a WORLD CLASS keeper Cech makes a school boy error and they equalise. Minutes later Nihat waltzes through to score a stunner injury time then THEIR keeper gets sent off. Sort it out, SI!

AGAIN!!!

3-0 up at Fenerbahce and I lose 4-3!!!!

ARRRRRRRGGGHHHH!!!!

Originally posted by Celtic_1967:

What is the BPL? Surely you mean EPL?

(I'm sorry it just bothers me when people say Britain when they mean England and England when they mean britian as if Scotland and Wales dont exist. I'm not trying to be difficult and I accept that Nomis may not be british)

Calm down calm down lol it means Barclays Premier League.

Originally posted by davidoff21:

Yeah I was playing as Czech Republic and 2-0 up against Turkey and then a WORLD CLASS keeper Cech makes a school boy error and they equalise. Minutes later Nihat waltzes through to score a stunner injury time then THEIR keeper gets sent off. Sort it out, SI!

It's not cheating, but the game is a tad, too realistic I think. In that things happen so much like real football that it can be quite startling!

There are soooo many stats that effect the game, take for instance weather condition, how that effects the game or player morale or one stat such as determination so there are lots of things to consider. It is alot more realistic and I think sometimes that does evoke some annoyance. I am playing FM 07 atm and I find it really difficult. I just lost a game I dominated they scored with one lucky goal, so I reassessed my tactics but wasn't sure where I went wrong...anyways, I'm taking a break from FM for the moment, little to difficult for me

Does anyone else feel cheated at times?

No, never.

When I lose a game it's due to defficentcies in my tactics for that specific game, and players not performaning on the day.

Nothing else.

I've felt I've been terribly unlucky in form sometimes, but not that it's rigged.

Come on, the computer doesn't KNOW when you specifically are playing, and then goes to ruin your day.

I always feel cheated and want to throw my PC out the window 5 or 6 times a day, but the fact of the matter is game doesn't cheat.

If something isn't working it's down to the player to work out why and adjust his tactics/team accordingly, unfortunately I'm not good enough to do that yet.

Originally posted by paulpaps:

I've felt I've been terribly unlucky in form sometimes, but not that it's rigged.

Come on, the computer doesn't KNOW when you specifically are playing, and then goes to ruin your day.

Yeah I lost at FM and then my computer slept with my wife! I swear it's rigged.

After being at St. Albans for just over two season's I got offered the Bristol Rovers job, who were 18th in League 2, which is really poor considering that they were predicted to finish 2nd in the league, and being outside the transfer window I could not buy any players so I had to make due with the players at my disposal.

Using the same tactic that I used at St. Albans I managed to get the club to 7th in the remaining 8 games of the season, 18 points from a possible 24, not bad at all.

So no, I don't feel cheated.

I also used the 4-2-4 against the opposition a few times and it worked, I must have scored at least 5 goals in the remaining 15 minutes with this tactic.

These "computer cheats" threads are just silly. Saying that it is rigged implies conscious action on the part of SI to deny players success in the game. Surely that would be counter productive in that it would frustrate people and cause them not to play or buy the game in future. I accept that the match engine isn't perfect and I'm dead against the 4-2-4 formation which I believe would be murdered on a real football pitch but I don't believe the computer distinguishes between human managers and AI managers.

The AI doesn't always act naturally, ufortunately. Sometimes you have to think in an unlogically way to meet such problems as you describe.

A couple of days ago I met a club that played 4-2-4 from start to end in a single match. I wanted to take control of their only 2 midfield-players. I instructed my two central midfielders to man-mark these two specific opponents very tight. I also let ML and MR to man-mark these two specific midfield-players, but not with tight-marking.

I addition I went to 'Opponent instructions' and instructed my players to ALWAYS close them down, ALWAYS tight mark them, HARD tackles on them and really try to press them to use their WEAKER FOOT.

Nevertheless, even though I had my 4 midfield-players to REALLY take care of their only 2 midfield-players, the Action Zone showed 24% for the opponent team and only 22% for my team regarding the midfieldzone. Is this acceptable ?

I guess there's only two ways to consider this: 1) the two midfield-players of the opponent team was outstanding ( not likely...since it was an ordinary team with ordinary midfield-players ). 2) The Action Zone parameter is also taking moves from their defenders and/or their attackers, into the midfieldzone, into consideration.

But most of the time I had a lot of possession of the ball in the midfieldzone, without dominating this zone at any point of time, so I can't say that the latter is true. OR CAN IT ?

I would appreciate a reply on this one !

i have to agree with the thread maker entirely. at first i didnt expect anything but recently i can swear ive heard my printer and my ipod making bets on games results and can only assume they are bribing the computer into changing the final outcomes of games.

I don't think the FM cheats, but the calculation of the AI may sometimes seems wrong. I must admit that it sometimes looks like that the AI gives the computercontrolled clubs some advantages in the gameplay, when you can't find any logical explanation to an outcome in certain matches.

i dont think it cheats either i was being sarcastic.

Just look how bad Valencia did this season in real life - sometimes good teams have bad seasons

Originally posted by Ernst:

I don't think the FM cheats, but the calculation of the AI may sometimes seems wrong. I must admit that it sometimes looks like that the AI gives the computercontrolled clubs some advantages in the gameplay, when you can't find any logical explanation to an outcome in certain matches.

Surely that's exactly what a ref does IRL. We always think they are biased when it goes against us, but they probably aren't if we're honest.

exactly plus the better team gets "cheated" often in football. i thought croatia where better than the turks and the turks ended up winning. in fact i can think of many times watch spurs this season in which we would control the majority of the match only to draw or lose. (but that might be more down to a certain incompetent goalie)

Yes, it may happen sometimes that you can lose to a poorer club. But not in the long run. The majority explanation to this is that your tactic is wrong if this happens. But this is an too easy explanation, because when things aren't going your way, you immediately start changing tactics and formation to gain something better. I've done it alot and often of no use when the AI finally has cracked your tactic. And here comes another strange problem...if the AI has outsmarted you with it's tactic against you, regarding one computercontrolled club in a single match, it makes no sense that the next poor club can achieve the same using the same tactic. Does the AI let all the other managers talk together so they all can use the same tactics ?

If the above is real, then there's always a chance that West Ham can beat ManUtd at Old Trafford, just by continuisly changing their tactic and formation until they find the tactic that really reveals Manutd's weak points. Is it really possible to try out a huge amount of tactics in a match to find the key to success?Normally such changes limits itself to low, middle or high pressure on the field during a match or change of the formation. Then...if West Ham finds the ultimate tactic against United, what is the possibilities of that Birmingham obtain detail information of this, to their match the next week after against United, and also uses it with great success?

I have posted what I am about to say elsewhere on the forum but I feel that it also addresses the issues of the OP, so I have repeated it here.

One of the things I have noticed about FM08 is that your current form has a much bigger influence upon how the opposition plays against you.

In my current game, I have been winning and winning with my current side all season. My form is so good that I have had to start playing a very attacking system away from home against sides who are supposed to finish higher than me in the table.

I think the trouble is that a lot of people have immediate success over, say, 10-15 games with a counter attacking tactic (or perhaps a balanced one). Then, suddenly the opposition starts turning up defensively (despite pre-match odds) and the goals start flowing in the wrong end.

Part of the problem is the lower tempo, possession based football that the computer plays. The reason you concede such silly goals is because the defence sit too deep and allow the opposition the chance to have possession in your half of the field, thus the computer can make clinical chances and one of them is bound to go in. At the other end of the pitch, your team aren't creating clinical chances because they aren't playing with enough width or the right attacking mentality. So, you miss chances, and this is exacerbated by the opposition scoring (which they normally do) because your player morale drops. Thus, you start getting beaten 2-0 and 3-0 each week and you can't see why.

My advice is, read the scout reports and watch how the opposition plays against you on the 2d screen. As soon as you are winning tons of games, your scout is going to report that each side is playing a defensive tactic and this is the first clue to the fact that you need to become more attacking. Playing balanced or defensive will be suicidal. You will see how the opposition has become more defensive on the 2d screen as the opposition players being more cautious with the ball, playing it more slowly, passing sideways and not committing too many players forward.

This is my experience so far - I have managed in BSS, BSP, League Two and now the Irish First division.

What does everyone else think? Does this ring true for your game?

C.

Crouchaldinho, very interesting theory. How do you keep your players in such good shape? I guess you have to do something in your training sessions ? I struggle to get all my players in 100% match fitness to the next match. I've had best success with this when I tweak the 'Strength' and 'Aerobic' sliders to a 'High' position. It's balancing on a knife's edge, because some players tends to get injuries.

Do you have a recipe for this ?

And it's most diffucult for the players that's not in the first team. Do they need to play matches in addition to the training to reach 100% match fitness.

Can players obtain better match fitness just by playing matches for the Reserves ?

Originally posted by Ernst:

And it's most diffucult for the players that's not in the first team. Do they need to play matches in addition to the training to reach 100% match fitness.

Can players obtain better match fitness just by playing matches for the Reserves ?

Yes, if I have a player injured I click "send to reserves until match fit" and he should come back 100% and in superb condition. First team squad members who don't play all the time never reach 100% for me.

football is more than just footballing ability stats.

players are more than just stats. they are human beings. who can have off days, get unhappy with form, causing a snowball effect.

especially if they have an unknown manager who is telling htem to line up and play in strange formation/tactics.

so take a look at everything and you'll do better.

Im in my 3rd season at Juventus and I think confidence has a lot to do with it as well. I won 11 games in a row, confidence high and me saying 'i expect a win' and eveything is fine. Then i lose at home 0-1 to Torino, my arch rivals (me 20 shots 11 on target 0 goals. them 1 shot 1 on target 1 goal) and then for the next seven games i can't but a win, confidence eroded and strikers stopping scoring, coupled with poor goalkeepeing form (ie losing 2-1 with me having 10 times as many shots as the oppo).

Cheated? No

Frustrated? Most definitley

Seems to happen every season like that, no matter what tactics you use, and I'm sure we have come up with ones that we feel are fantastic, there is some kind of reckoning. Not cheating bit annoying and part of football. Look at Villa, unbeaten in 14 last year, then no win for 10. It happens, and i'm sure that if you won every game that too would be boring!

International competitions are different than club competitions so its irrelevant that you did well with Sampdoria your tactics just arent right for internationals

Originally posted by Ernst:

Crouchaldinho, very interesting theory. How do you keep your players in such good shape? I guess you have to do something in your training sessions ? I struggle to get all my players in 100% match fitness to the next match. I've had best success with this when I tweak the 'Strength' and 'Aerobic' sliders to a 'High' position. It's balancing on a knife's edge, because some players tends to get injuries.

Do you have a recipe for this ?

I didn't mention anything to do with fitness in my post but I will answer your question anyway.

I make my own training schedules - I don't tend to have any schedules above 'medium' on the overall scale.

I don't push the strength and aerobic sliders too high unless I am specifically working on a player with poor physical stats and I think he will benefit from it. Most of the time, the strength and aerobic sliders are somewhere between medium and high for me.

I make sure the squad is match fit and give some of the squad players reserve team football to keep them match fit.

I rotate the squad a little bit at a time, especially if a player is falling below 95%.

I have a medium sized squad but I always have back-ups for attacking positions. Defensive players do not usually tire as much as attacking ones in my experience.

I also tend to design possession based tactics, often with 5 man midfields. I normally aim to dominate possession and keep the ball, regardless of my overall approach to the game. I figure the more I keep the ball, the less my side will tire from trying to win it.

In fact, my most attacking tactic is combines a 5 man midfield with a very short passing style and slow tempo. Despite the fact that I have my team pressing a great deal in this tactic, they don't tire very much. I figure this is because they have so much of the ball and don't do too much chasing. It is not uncommon for me to get to the end of the game playing this tactic and see that my side is mostly 80%.

Hope this helps.

C.