Mac Laptop Questions

Hi all,

Whilst I'm an experienced FM user I'm not amazing with computers (save from knowing that more RAM and more processor is better than less...) and I'm considering buying a new laptop. And more than that, I'm, considering switching from a windows laptop to a Mac.

I'd really appreciate it if you'd try to answer these few questions/issues that I have. Thanks in advance lads.

1. What are the main issues/problems/differences with playing a FM on a Mac?

2. What is shared L2 cache? So if one Mac has say 3MB shared L2 cache and another one has 4MB shared L2 cache, what's the practical significance?

3. Regarding graphics card: the Mac I'm looking at had an "Intel GMA X3100 graphics processor with 144MB of DDR2 SDRAM shared with main memory". What does 'shared with main memory' mean?

Also, it says that the Mac operating system uses a minimum of 144MB graphical memory. So if it uses more than this will this slow the computer/eat into the computer's normal 2GB ram?

Thanks a lot lads.

Hi all,

Whilst I'm an experienced FM user I'm not amazing with computers (save from knowing that more RAM and more processor is better than less...) and I'm considering buying a new laptop. And more than that, I'm, considering switching from a windows laptop to a Mac.

I'd really appreciate it if you'd try to answer these few questions/issues that I have. Thanks in advance lads.

1. What are the main issues/problems/differences with playing a FM on a Mac?

2. What is shared L2 cache? So if one Mac has say 3MB shared L2 cache and another one has 4MB shared L2 cache, what's the practical significance?

3. Regarding graphics card: the Mac I'm looking at had an "Intel GMA X3100 graphics processor with 144MB of DDR2 SDRAM shared with main memory". What does 'shared with main memory' mean?

Also, it says that the Mac operating system uses a minimum of 144MB graphical memory. So if it uses more than this will this slow the computer/eat into the computer's normal 2GB ram?

Thanks a lot lads.

I can't really answer you questions, but as a mac user what i can say is that FM runs fine on my laptop ( 1mb ram, 64 shared graphics and 2mb cache) the only complaint i have is that sometimes it takes a while to process fixtures but nothing more than a minute or two on international days.

I hope you see the light and decide to switch to mac

Cheers for the reply weeeman, I'm definitely switching to Mac I'd just like to know a bit more info to help me decide which Mac to buy.

I just got the macbook w/ 2.2 GHz intel core 2 duo with only 1 GB of ram and it runs so much better than my old G4. In fact, with no changes from what came in the box, i'm running something like 28 leagues from 11 nations with a medium database and it seems to be just fine!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by McBride:

I just got the macbook w/ 2.2 GHz intel core 2 duo with only 1 GB of ram and it runs so much better than my old G4. In fact, with no changes from what came in the box, i'm running something like 28 leagues from 11 nations with a medium database and it seems to be just fine! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's great to hear. If I can stretch to it I'll try to get the 2.4 GHz with 2GB RAM. I'm currently using a 1.6GHz (single core) laptop with 512MB RAM - it's not good!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

1. What are the main issues/problems/differences with playing a FM on a Mac? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No real difference. Theres not any "mac specific" bugs, or exploits. The update's / patches are released the same time as PC too. 2 things though. 1. There are no scouts / saved game editors for mac. This isn't exactly a bad thing, but some people like them. They are being worked on, but take ages as theres such little mac demand. 2. despite my many efforts, I've found it impossible to play an online game with a friend that has a PC. So basically, if you play online with pals, you all need the same OS. (the versions are different for Mac/PC, meaning they don't recognize each other)

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">2. What is shared L2 cache? So if one Mac has say 3MB shared L2 cache and another one has 4MB shared L2 cache, what's the practical significance? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm an avid mac fan, and my brother-in-law even works direct for apple, but I've never heard of this. I can't imagine it has any impact on FM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">3. Regarding graphics card: the Mac I'm looking at had an "Intel GMA X3100 graphics processor with 144MB of DDR2 SDRAM shared with main memory". What does 'shared with main memory' mean? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Again, I'm lost. - perhaps you can google it?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Also, it says that the Mac operating system uses a minimum of 144MB graphical memory. So if it uses more than this will this slow the computer/eat into the computer's normal 2GB ram? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, the graphics cards runs of its own memory, only taking minimal amounts from the computers memory. 2GB is more than enough too, unless you use the mac for professional reasons. I have 4GB - but before I did, FM ran extremely well on 2GB, even 30+ seasons into the game, and 2GB is also enough to support every league/nation and still run the game at a reasonable pace.

Hope this helps.

L2 cache memory is like RAM except it is a higher level memory which is located closer to the processor for faster access. My basic understanding of it is the more you have the better the performance (in general but it is more complex than that in ways I don't fully understand ). Think of it like a filing system. The L2 Cache is like having a filing cabinet right next to your desk but the RAM is a storage cabinet that you have to get out of your seat and walk to.

Shared with main memory means it is integrated and the GPU accesses memory that is available to the CPU as well. When the Graphical Processing Unit (GPU) needs access to RAM it has to get in line and the controllers have to shift memory about which can slow down performance, whereas a dedicated GPU has it's own memory. Again as with my L2 Cache statement in general dedicated graphics memory will perform better with graphics intensive programs but I don't think FM falls under this category. If you are getting Vista one of the issues with it is that different themes can chew up more of this graphical memory, particularly the Aero theme.

I can't speak to the difference to FM of a 3MB vs 4MB L2 cache myself (theoretically it should be better but I guess it depends on what else you've got running and how big your FM world is) but if you do a google search you can come up with numerous sites with benchmark tests of how different specs perform in different scenarios such as

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/apple/memory/Macbook_Memory_Benchmarks

although the above link is part of a sales website so whether or not they juice the results to get more sales I don't know.

I'm not an expert so any corrections to the above are welcomed

Cheers mate

MacBook is great for FM, but not for more graphics intensive games (but who needs them ).

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LSS:

MacBook is great for FM, but not for more graphics intensive games (but who needs them ). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly, all you need is Champ!

<--- Works for Apple

Like was previously stated L2 Cache is just faster ram that is easily accessible for the processor. And its shared because of the dual cores

And no you will not notice a difference between 3 mb or 4 mb of L2 Cache, however that would indicate a different processor, so I would look into that aspect.

Not sure about Europe, In North America the Macbooks (and bottom end Macbook pro) come with 3 MB L2 and the High End Macbook Pro comes with 6 MB L2. Only the macbook air (which uses a different processor model) has 4 mb. And its actually a slower process if that helps confuse you lol

And with the video, as stated before it just means if you have 2 GB of ram and the video card takes 144 youd only have 1866 mb of ram available. But like previous stated the graphics card should have little effect on FM.

Personally I have played FM on my baseline Macbook 2.1ghz with no problems.

Good luck, you can always give tech support a ring they are usually pretty good for technical questions

Tim C

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TimC:

<--- Works for Apple

Like was previously stated L2 Cache is just faster ram that is easily accessible for the processor. And its shared because of the dual cores

And no you will not notice a difference between 3 mb or 4 mb of L2 Cache, however that would indicate a different processor, so I would look into that aspect.

Not sure about Europe, In North America the Macbooks (and bottom end Macbook pro) come with 3 MB L2 and the High End Macbook Pro comes with 6 MB L2. Only the macbook air (which uses a different processor model) has 4 mb. And its actually a slower process if that helps confuse you lol

And with the video, as stated before it just means if you have 2 GB of ram and the video card takes 144 youd only have 1866 mb of ram available. But like previous stated the graphics card should have little effect on FM.

Personally I have played FM on my baseline Macbook 2.1ghz with no problems.

Good luck, you can always give tech support a ring they are usually pretty good for technical questions

Tim C </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks a lot TimC

Do you work for Apple in the UK then or the US? I've phone apple UK a few times to try to find out about student discount. It's fairly clear that it is available, but no two people at Apple seem to be able to give me the same figure as to the amount of discount! lol.

Sooooooooo can't wait for my Mac, only a few months now!