Predetermined match incidents?

Just wondering if anybody has come across, or is suspecting that some parts of a match are prescripted. I have no problems with the game, but just thought this was a little weird.

I reached the champions league final with Arsenal in the first season, beating Bayern. Ballack (at Bayern) (this transfer always seems to happen in the multiple games ive started), was sent off for two yellows in the second half. After a continuing, my computer crashed and so I did not get to save.

So I started the game again, and played the final again. I lost this time, and again, Ballack was sent off for two yellows in the 2nd. I thought it was a little unfair since I had won it the first time so restarted and played again. For the third time, I lost, again, the same thing happened with Ballack.

The 4th time, I lost (:confused:), only this time Gallas was sent off for two yellows. The 5th time, I won, and again, Gallas was sent off for two yellows.

I am fully aware this could be complete conincidence / due to tactics etc. But could it be possible that this match in particular was destined to have somebody sent off, for whatever reason? Just thought it was a little two odd...

I've very rarely had problems in-match - I find that it tends to be very varied. What I have had some problems with is that at certain points, my players seem destined to be injured, outside of matches. I've had problems where a crucial player has received a 5 month injury at a key point in the season. Being a casual player, and quick to annoy, I reloaded...and they got injured again. After about four restarts...a different player got injured. I kept going more for curiosity's sake, and it took about ten restarts to not have a player injured on that day. This was after maybe a month or two of having no training injuries at all, not even minor.

That said, it does seem a predetermined event (through frustrated eyes, not seriously) that "the important player that I sold off for money and to buy another player" always scores against me, no matter who the player is, where they play on the field and how good their scoring record has been before the match

Just wondering if anybody has come across, or is suspecting that some parts of a match are prescripted. I have no problems with the game, but just thought this was a little weird.

I reached the champions league final with Arsenal in the first season, beating Bayern. Ballack (at Bayern) (this transfer always seems to happen in the multiple games ive started), was sent off for two yellows in the second half. After a continuing, my computer crashed and so I did not get to save.

So I started the game again, and played the final again. I lost this time, and again, Ballack was sent off for two yellows in the 2nd. I thought it was a little unfair since I had won it the first time so restarted and played again. For the third time, I lost, again, the same thing happened with Ballack.

The 4th time, I lost (:confused:), only this time Gallas was sent off for two yellows. The 5th time, I won, and again, Gallas was sent off for two yellows.

I am fully aware this could be complete conincidence / due to tactics etc. But could it be possible that this match in particular was destined to have somebody sent off, for whatever reason? Just thought it was a little two odd...

I think we must live with the fact that scripts are part of the game

No, stuff like that wouldn't be scripted, not stuff that affects you and only you but there have been many times when a goal has gone in in the 90th minute and I have thought that it was scripted, you never know.

There are no scripted parts of the game. The only preset thing is, you are going into the game with the same sets of players, potentially the same tactics, the same conditions etc. So it's no surprise that some things happen multiple times. Regarding your incidents, the final is a high pressure game and maybe some players don't deal well with it. Gallas is certainly a player who is susceptible to doing stupid things under pressure. Maybe something had riled Ballack before the game (the AI managers team talk, a media comment etc). It's a bit unlikely a player would get sent off everytime, but not beyond the realms of possibility.

might be predetermined...ive started 12 new games with man utd and each time a player (random player)in my team on the 13th October has had a torn calf muscle and been sidelined for 5 months.... all happens to players in my team...from the ones i can remember....berbatov...anderson....flecther, Neville and Tevez

concidence....highly doubt it

p.s..... SI....im losing patience with this game!!!!!!!!

might be predetermined...ive started 12 new games with man utd and each time a player (random player)in my team on the 13th October has had a torn calf muscle and been sidelined for 5 months.... all happens to players in my team...from the ones i can remember....berbatov...anderson....flecther, Neville and Tevez

concidence....highly doubt it

p.s..... SI....im losing patience with this game!!!!!!!!

Your training is too intense, and/or your physio has inadequete ancillary ratings (since I'm sure his physio rating is 20...)

If it was the same referee he might be one of those refs who seems to think we pay our money to watch him send people off. So he sent someone off everytime, the fact it was Gallas or Ballack would probably be linked to those two players stats.

I don' think its scripted but things like this have happened to me also.

I've had similar - when I first started playing the game my laptop was really struggling with matches to the point I'd save after selecting my team and tactics just in case it crashed - and more than once when it did there were significant similarities in goals, when they were scored and injuries.... I guess it's just the match engine is a bit less random this year and more down to the conditions entering the match.

its not as the annoying as the "Come-back Script" I like to call.

So i score, i stop getting excited cause i know within 10 mins the AI will score, and 80% of the time they do. But my fav ones are 2-0 leads until extra time in 2nd half and AI does a "Superb comeback!" by scoring 2 goals in 2-5 mins.

this is why I use holiday mode, seems like my Assistant Mang. can do things the AI can

I usually berate such comments as conspiracy theories, but recently had a problem with Stephen Taylor at Newcastle. Sending off - banned - returns to action - sending off - banned - returns to action - sending off - banned...

... then fined ... told not to dive into tackles...

returns to action - no sending off (finally!) - player of the month for October.

Not sure if the ME decided to get him sent off (don't think that's even possible) or if it was the player's attitude and state of mind that meant I wasn't managing him well enough - at least at first.

Anyway, I don't think it can be classed 100% as "pre-determined" as I had a direct affect on the outcome.

its not as the annoying as the "Come-back Script" I like to call.

So i score, i stop getting excited cause i know within 10 mins the AI will score, and 80% of the time they do. But my fav ones are 2-0 leads until extra time in 2nd half and AI does a "Superb comeback!" by scoring 2 goals in 2-5 mins.

Thankfully I've noticed this seems to have stopped happening in FM09, which is very gratifying because I used to see not two goal leads but four goal leads go down the drain in a crazy last 15 minutes in FM08.

What I have noticed still happens, unfortunately, is there's still a very annoying problem where if your team goes into half time with a lead, then virtually every team talk is interpreted by the players as "you can't lose now, so who cares if you play badly?". Suddenly, every player on my team starts putting in inaccurate passes, poor crosses straight to the keeper, stopping and getting tackled etc. It makes for very frustrating viewing - I actually prefer to be equal on goals at half time now to stop it happening. Thankfully, teams seem more resistant this game, so even if my team is playing badly because "they're sure they've won" then they usually can defend a two goal lead, and often even keep a clean sheet. It's still infuriating watching them playing as if they don't care though.

Yeah, this one's actually quite realistic, but it's still annoying that it seems to plague me 99% of the time, and I'm not being entirely sarcastic with that percentage

Injuries are the one thing that seem prescripted to me. They rarely seem to happen for my average or below average players - only my best players.

Actually, I had a really odd experience with the demo.

Playing as Spurs, I went into half time in a Premier League game winning 2-1. It crashed during the second half so I started it up again (had saved right before this game). Same starting line-up, same tactics, same team talk. No tactical changes were made in the first half, and the first 45 minutes panned out EXACTLY the same as before - watching in 3D, all three of the goals were literally EXACTLY the same, at exactly the same times, as were yellow card incidents. It wasn't until the team talk at half time that the match began to take a different route.

Until I read in the end that Gallas got the 2 yellow cards instead of Ballack I thought that the "banning bug" was back... (even though it was view mode related)

What a relief

Happens all the time to me. Sometimes its as bad as one team scoring 3 in the first half. Very strange.

I'm not 'one of those' people but in FM 07 it really does seem that way. If one match has a red card and I do the amtch again, someone else will get the red card. Same thing with injuries.

It would make sense and be completely logical if it was happening to justo ne specific player, but it does not.

Aren't the results of a match determined when you hit the 'Continue' button rather than being played out as you watch the match?

There's obviously some measure of randomness in there though as you can play the same match ten times with the same players and team talks etc. but get different results.

<i>its not as the annoying as the "Come-back Script" I like to call.

So i score, i stop getting excited cause i know within 10 mins the AI will score, and 80% of the time they do. But my fav ones are 2-0 leads until extra time in 2nd half and AI does a "Superb comeback!" by scoring 2 goals in 2-5 mins.</i>

This is annoying, yeah it happens IRL but never so much as it does in game. I know, I know "it's my tactics"

I know, I know "it's my tactics"

It's not your tactics (not uniquely, at least), it happens too often.

I've drawn 41 (Premier) league games in two-and-a-half seasons; at a rough guess I would say I was ahead in at least 3/4's of those games.

No idea how many games I've lost to late goals (I know it's more than I've won with them!)

It's not your tactics (not uniquely, at least), it happens too often.

I've drawn 41 (Premier) league games in two-and-a-half seasons; at a rough guess I would say I was ahead in at least 3/4's of those games.

No idea how many games I've lost to late goals (I know it's more than I've won with them!)

Yeah I had a funny feeling something was amiss. I go defensive, set time wasting 'to always' and sub out of condition players in the last 10 if I'm ahead but it still happens way too often.

On this, it would be interesting to see a "goal timings statistic" over the course of at least one season

This season's contentious games featuring late goals that earned a draw/a win ...

Games where the opposition scored last:

1-1 Villa (h) - 85 mins

2-2 Liverpool (h) - early 2-0 lead lost, not to particularly late goals

1-1 Man Utd (h) - 90 mins

1-1 QPR (a) - 85 mins

1-2 Man City (a) - 90+4 mins

2-2 Tottenham (h) - 90+7 mins (there were only five minutes of injury time announced!)

1-1 Liverpool (a) - 89 mins

Games where I scored last:

2-2 Sunderland (a) - 90+3 mins

2-1 Bolton (a) - 90+3 mins

2-1 Sunderland (h) - 90 mins

So seven out of the ten resulted in drawn matches, the other three resulting in wins. Six out of the seven matches I conceded in resulted in draws (12 points lost there alone).

I'm currently about two-thirds of the way through the season (some 30 games, FWIW I have drawn 12 of my 27 league games thus far) - so roughly one in three matches have featured result-affecting goals in injury time (or very close to it), and approximately one in five games have resulted in me dropping points in the closing stages of a match. That seems, on the face of it and without any research into *real* results, a little high.

Bear in mind that I *always* revert to an ultra-defensive formation for the final 5/10 minutes of a match to protect a one goal lead (it does work sometimes, whether or not I'm being too defensive - if that's possible - is arguable). My players are reasonably fit, and I more often than not finish a game with three subs on the field - so one would assume that fitness shouldn't be a major issue.

It's not your tactics (not uniquely, at least), it happens too often.

I've drawn 41 (Premier) league games in two-and-a-half seasons; at a rough guess I would say I was ahead in at least 3/4's of those games.

No idea how many games I've lost to late goals (I know it's more than I've won with them!)

If you're playing one tactic and the opposition decide to throw everything at you, you need to adjust your own tactics accordingly. No use watching them do it every time, surely you'd learn?

This season's contentious games featuring late goals that earned a draw/a win ...

Games where the opposition scored last:

1-1 Villa (h) - 85 mins

2-2 Liverpool (h) - early 2-0 lead lost, not to particularly late goals

1-1 Man Utd (h) - 90 mins

1-1 QPR (a) - 85 mins

1-2 Man City (a) - 90+4 mins

2-2 Tottenham (h) - 90+7 mins (there were only five minutes of injury time announced!)

1-1 Liverpool (a) - 89 mins

Games where I scored last:

2-2 Sunderland (a) - 90+3 mins

2-1 Bolton (a) - 90+3 mins

2-1 Sunderland (h) - 90 mins

So seven out of the ten resulted in drawn matches, the other three resulting in wins. Six out of the seven matches I conceded in resulted in draws (12 points lost there alone).

I'm currently about two-thirds of the way through the season (some 30 games, FWIW I have drawn 12 of my 27 league games thus far) - so roughly one in three matches have featured result-affecting goals in injury time (or very close to it), and approximately one in five games have resulted in me dropping points in the closing stages of a match. That seems, on the face of it and without any research into *real* results, a little high.

Bear in mind that I *always* revert to an ultra-defensive formation for the final 5/10 minutes of a match to protect a one goal lead (it does work sometimes, whether or not I'm being too defensive - if that's possible - is arguable). My players are reasonably fit, and I more often than not finish a game with three subs on the field - so one would assume that fitness shouldn't be a major issue.

I have found going too denfensive just invites pressure onto your defence. Then what happens is the ball gets cleared and just keeps coming back into your box. It inevitably leads to them scoring me swearing and gettin annoyed.

I have now started to play just 'defensive' rather than 'ultra defensive' and more times than not I keep them out.

The instances of players being injured/ sent off/ getting cards at EXACTLY the same time is pretty bad.

In terms of injuries, I noticed that in 2007, the last game I played, my first team very rarely got any type of injury at all. It was always reserve or fringe players.

Losing/ drawing games right at the end is something managers complain about because it happens a lot in real life. This kind of thing happening regularly over the course of one season with one team isn`t strange. But if it persists over three or more seasons and with different teams, then it`s a problem. But then, is it a problem with tactics or the game? It`s hard to tell.

I have found going too denfensive just invites pressure onto your defence. Then what happens is the ball gets cleared and just keeps coming back into your box. It inevitably leads to them scoring me swearing and gettin annoyed.

I have now started to play just 'defensive' rather than 'ultra defensive' and more times than not I keep them out.

I think that the above is true. For example, I have found that continuing to attack is often better than defending as when defending, you`re just asking to concede. I always used to go defensive, but now mix it up and sometimes continue to attack and my results are mixed.

What I would say, is that the ai seems to find it easy to make amazing comebacks, whereas it`s very difficult for the human player to do the same.

Just my opinion.

yeh ive had this before with injuries. ive had a newly bought player badly injured (broken leg) in a match and replayed it. he kept getting injured in the game with similar length injuries until finally he got an injury which lasted 2 weeks at which point i said fair enough. i dont know how often this kind of thing occurs but its not a big deal for me. just a bit strange.

If you're playing one tactic and the opposition decide to throw everything at you, you need to adjust your own tactics accordingly.

No sh*t, Sherlock ...

No sh*t, Sherlock ...

Nice attitude.

If you agree with me, then how is it not your tactics?

yeh ive had this before with injuries. ive had a newly bought player badly injured (broken leg) in a match and replayed it. he kept getting injured in the game with similar length injuries until finally he got an injury which lasted 2 weeks at which point i said fair enough. i dont know how often this kind of thing occurs but its not a big deal for me. just a bit strange.

Happens constantly to me. I made 2 big summer signings in the last transfer window - a forward and a midfielder. The forward broke his wrist and was out a few months in the 1st minute of the 1st game of the season. The midfielder did way better - he made it all the way to the second half before tearing some muscle and going out for 3-5 months. So two star signings, two long term injuries in the first game. Yes, I know it could happen. But why does it seem to always happen?

The problem I have is that if I have 4 men in midfield (say Hargreaves, Carrick, Veloso and Scholes) and the opposition have 2 then if I set the tactics to defensive short passing I should be able to play triangles around their midfileders and get a few free kicks when their forwards try to tackle but the players don't seem to want to play keep ball (with Oles from the crowd) and wear down the clock

I've very rarely had problems in-match - I find that it tends to be very varied. What I have had some problems with is that at certain points, my players seem destined to be injured, outside of matches. I've had problems where a crucial player has received a 5 month injury at a key point in the season. Being a casual player, and quick to annoy, I reloaded...and they got injured again. After about four restarts...a different player got injured. I kept going more for curiosity's sake, and it took about ten restarts to not have a player injured on that day. This was after maybe a month or two of having no training injuries at all, not even minor.

That said, it does seem a predetermined event (through frustrated eyes, not seriously) that "the important player that I sold off for money and to buy another player" always scores against me, no matter who the player is, where they play on the field and how good their scoring record has been before the match

Khm, can't predict for in match, but outside the match, injuries definitely are predetermined. I playtested it. It seems to me that it's not as common as it was in previous versions, but still is. Always during Wednesday, one player will get injured. I was once very furious when my new signing got injured the bloody next day for like, 6 months, so I quit the game (not proud of it but who cares) and reloaded, only to see another player being injured for long time. So I quit and loaded again to test, and again, player injured during Wednesday.

They aren't. I've also done the save-and-reload thing (well, more accurately, the crash-to-desktop thing) and the game has generated an injury in the first case and no injury in the second.

I've noticed the end-of-season stuff seems harsh, and almost designed to stop you running away with it. Players who have performed all season will, in the last 10 games of the season, go right off. Ratings will say they did OK, etc, but suddenly the 'keeper who has kept 17 clean sheets will let things trickle in, leads will evaporate even if the opposition is at the bottom but safe and have nothing to play for. Meanwhile, one or even two other teams will find the form of their centuries, let alone the season, and run the league closer than it looked like being (and IRL probably would have been, because the pressure of chasing would make at least one of them crack at a crucial point).

It's happened on every version of FM so far, and I thought maybe 09 was going to be different. Then a 3-0 lead after 35 minutes becomes 3-2, and I'm getting battered throughout the second half. I almost wondered if the players hadn't just swapped shirts early, because they (Berwick) had been useless and suddenly they looked like they'd imported Man Utd's first team, while my players went from being OK for the division, etc, to being the Dog and Duck second XI. No instructions were given to hold back, etc, either. Morale was good, and after the game (won 4-2 thanks to a 90th minute clincher) I checked the team talk feedback, and that said they'd got a morale boost!