It's your tactics!

It's your tactics!!

Yes we know it's our tactics. We know the players can do well if we get every single slider in their perfectly correct settings.

But what's the point?

Let's face it. We all watch and play football. We understand all the basic aspects of football. But a large number of us just can't implement our ideas in the form of some slider settings. (And yes I've read that TT&F over and over again)

We all read that 18000 words of tactical talk and half of us still can't seem to get our Man Utd/Real Madrid sides to consistently and convincingly win games over very weak sides. Are we all just brainless idiots that should stop trying to play FM or is the game too complicated for its own good?

Why are these tactical sliders so important that if we get just a little bit wrong we get heavily punished for it? While it is important to have different options for various tactics, it is just getting ridiculous how the game almost completely relies on the specific tactical settings to determine a win or a loss. What about the actual ability of the players and the natural style of the team?

Is Mr. Guardiola so awesomely tactically superior and more experienced as a manager to Rijkaard and is that why Barcelona is doing so well at the moment?

Over the years it seems FM has gained way too much importance on the tactical micro management side of things. I suspect this has occurred because SI could not find any other legitimate improvements to implement year after year.

Please stop making this game more and more complicated. Making it more realistic does NOT necessarily mean making it more complicated. If the game is complicated it may be possible to replicate realism but it also means there will be less of us who will actually be able to play it to its potential. There are way too many large significant factors that affect the result of the game and most of us simply cannot cope to deal with the amount of detailed micro management needed for a successful team. And ultimately it will be less fun because we won't be able to tell the team exactly how we want them to play.

Maybe the assistant manager should play a bigger role in enlightening us of more factors that would significantly affect the match. And this should be turned on and off like the 'take care of team talk/friendlies' options so that you have the options to do it all by yourself or gradually learn from your assistant. Because to be honest, we are first time managers with no experience when we signed up for the top team so it would make sense in the game's context that we learn lots from the ass man at the start of the game.

Maybe the manual of the game should be much more focused to explain how the game's tactical engine works in detail. I mean, if tactics are THAT important in FM, shouldn't they be explained more from the actual developers instead of filling up the manual with rubbish that we all know already? Leave the 'what is soccer' kind of information for the American version please.

OR maybe the default tactics should provide a better idea of how that team plays in real football, not just the formation. I don't expect that for every single 4th division team but at least it should be there for the top division teams.

Thank you for spending your time to read if you haven't actually scrolled down out of boredom. You may just regard it as another moaning thread but just thought I'd vent my opinion.

It's your tactics!!

Yes we know it's our tactics. We know the players can do well if we get every single slider in their perfectly correct settings.

But what's the point?

Let's face it. We all watch and play football. We understand all the basic aspects of football. But a large number of us just can't implement our ideas in the form of some slider settings. (And yes I've read that TT&F over and over again)

We all read that 18000 words of tactical talk and half of us still can't seem to get our Man Utd/Real Madrid sides to consistently and convincingly win games over very weak sides. Are we all just brainless idiots that should stop trying to play FM or is the game too complicated for its own good?

Why are these tactical sliders so important that if we get just a little bit wrong we get heavily punished for it? While it is important to have different options for various tactics, it is just getting ridiculous how the game almost completely relies on the specific tactical settings to determine a win or a loss. What about the actual ability of the players and the natural style of the team?

Is Mr. Guardiola so awesomely tactically superior and more experienced as a manager to Rijkaard and is that why Barcelona is doing so well at the moment?

Over the years it seems FM has gained way too much importance on the tactical micro management side of things. I suspect this has occurred because SI could not find any other legitimate improvements to implement year after year.

Please stop making this game more and more complicated. Making it more realistic does NOT necessarily mean making it more complicated. If the game is complicated it may be possible to replicate realism but it also means there will be less of us who will actually be able to play it to its potential. There are way too many large significant factors that affect the result of the game and most of us simply cannot cope to deal with the amount of detailed micro management needed for a successful team. And ultimately it will be less fun because we won't be able to tell the team exactly how we want them to play.

Maybe the assistant manager should play a bigger role in enlightening us of more factors that would significantly affect the match. And this should be turned on and off like the 'take care of team talk/friendlies' options so that you have the options to do it all by yourself or gradually learn from your assistant. Because to be honest, we are first time managers with no experience when we signed up for the top team so it would make sense in the game's context that we learn lots from the ass man at the start of the game.

Maybe the manual of the game should be much more focused to explain how the game's tactical engine works in detail. I mean, if tactics are THAT important in FM, shouldn't they be explained more from the actual developers instead of filling up the manual with rubbish that we all know already? Leave the 'what is soccer' kind of information for the American version please.

OR maybe the default tactics should provide a better idea of how that team plays in real football, not just the formation. I don't expect that for every single 4th division team but at least it should be there for the top division teams.

Thank you for spending your time to read if you haven't actually scrolled down out of boredom. You may just regard it as another moaning thread but just thought I'd vent my opinion.

i like the point about the assistant manager option and have it like the other options you can turn it off or on very good idea. but every time i read one of these i get the distinct feeling that you guys just want to win every game and every league and cup going and the moment you don't you start a thread on how hard the game is and thats just not realistic unless you cheat. management is hard and irl you do have to change your tatics every game but saying that i do agree there should be an option to make it easier for people who struggle

Totally agree with everything here by the OP.

I am already bored of FM09 because one or two of my sliders are just out of position. Then, after spending forever to find a fix I come up against a team with a slightly different approach and I have to rework it all over again.

Simply. Not. Fun.

I think the OP was very well written and at least you DIDN'T POST IN CAPITALS TO LOOK ANGRY!

FM09 is no fun for a lot of people. Isn't a game supposed to be fun, first and foremost? :confused:

Totally agree with everything here by the OP.

I am already bored of FM09 because one or two of my sliders are just out of position. Then, after spending forever to find a fix I come up against a team with a slightly different approach and I have to rework it all over again.

Simply. Not. Fun.

there is two camps on this the ones that love the depth the tactics offer and those that would like to pick it up and play. i love the tactics and messing around with them and seeing them work but sometime they don't and if they don't i don't blame the game i blame myself as it was me that choose that tactic but i think in the next version there should be an option that the assistant manager chooses for you

Personally, I've not spent that long on tactics. I have one for home matches and one for away, and I make the occasional tweak to either depending on the opposition. Admittedly, I'm managing a big team, but I'm having quite a lot of success. And there are teams I believe to be better than mine that are doing a lot worse.

I think in the next version there should be an option that the assistant manager chooses for you

I doubt anyone would agree with that, that would make it far too boring tbh.

If there is 2 camps, of equal size, then SI really do need to do something to please both camps because at the minute FM is all about the complicated micro-management of tactical sliders that satisfies those who enjoy this sort of thing. But what about the ones who don't enjoy this part, but at the same time LOVE Football Manager in every other way but are left frustrated by it's ever increasing complexity?

It just seems a little unfair to totally negate the people who simply cannot for the love of God get to grips with FM's recalcitrant tactics, no matter how much they read and study the tactical forums and the TT&F (like the OP said), because the game itself is so vague.

People don't just want to download someone else's tactic to gain instant success; they want to be able to do it for themselves, but the game is more and more becoming geared toward the hardcore player and pushing the rest further and further off the playing field; leaving them utterly frustrated and with an enjoyment factor of zero.

Where's the fun and enjoyment in something that, hypothetically at least, acts like a high school bully who keeps flushing your head down the toilet without ever telling you why?

...Erm, I'm gonna stop now because I've even lost myself

But I think you get what I mean.

there is two camps on this the ones that love the depth the tactics offer and those that would like to pick it up and play. i love the tactics and messing around with them and seeing them work but sometime they don't and if they don't i don't blame the game i blame myself as it was me that choose that tactic but i think in the next version there should be an option that the assistant manager chooses for you

I agree with you about the depth. I also really enjoy just how much there is to tinker with in the game. I think the biggest problem people are having is the lack of correlation between the sliders and the team performance. For example, I understand exactly how I want my team to play but because there are so many sliders means there are infinite possibilities making the whole thing daunting and scary. Also, some of them seem to make little difference anyway... if I tell a player to take long shots rarely then I do NOT expect him to have 3 or 4 40yard shots per match.

I think, to some degree, none of us would care how complicated the sliders were if... if winning was just a bit easier. There's a much less vocal group who would hate the game to get easier, but in tersm of those who are struggling, I would argue that they could add a million more sliders and none of us would really care so long as it was easier to understand how to use them properly and easier to achieve something.

My two cents...

I think, to some degree, none of us would care how complicated the sliders were if... if winning was just a bit easier. There's a much less vocal group who would hate the game to get easier, but in tersm of those who are struggling, I would argue that they could add a million more sliders and none of us would really care so long as it was easier to understand how to use them properly and easier to achieve something.

My two cents...

That would be sensible Mike. I totally agree with that.

I'm not saying I should win every game and every competition. I actually want my players to play as I want them to. I don't care if I lose as long as my team actually plays a satisfactory game in my eyes.

But it has become so difficult to simply tell the players what you want out of them in the match. I'm just a little bit frustrated at the fact that I can't get the players to follow my instruction, ironically because the game has too many complicated and ambiguous tactical features that are not straight forward. Furthermore the interaction between these features bring about even more complicated results.

Fair enough it's my tactics but surely it's actually much easier irl to tell a player how you want him to play? (regardless of how good that instruction is)

But then I guess it's like the fact that aiming a gun irl is easier than in a game.

I just wish the different aspects of the tactics and how they interact with each other were as see through as the dresses on the catwalk if you know what I mean.

SI simply aren't catering for those who want an easy game. Whether because of time constraints in life or just the simple fact that they want an easy life.

One thing I would agree with is that the system that is in place should have less ambiguity and the implications of what each option should be made clearer. I don't want dumbed down tactics, but I suppose a more user friendly approach could work well. Assistant manager feedback helps in this area a little though

The main problem about the tactics setups are that they're not intuitive and difficult to manipulate in a way which makes sense.

If you think the sliders are intuitive, than ask yourself why there's so much discussion about the meaning of a slider (e.g. is individual mentality absolute or relative to team slider, is a defender on mentality 10 just as attacking as a striker or less so, is mentality about positioning or about passing or both, does "closing down on own half" actually mean what the label suggests, etc etc).

And it's a bit cumbersome to get set the tactics the way you mean them to be. The user interface has stayed the same for years and is lacking. I'd like RWB, Free role, Playmaker all to be marked on the positioning screen.

Set pieces are crap to set up. I can't get a good overview of how my team operates because all settings as individual player instructions. And I think I'd assign roles based on players instead of their position in my formation (if I have a very tall striker and a short one and tell them to switch positions, I don't also wish their corner roles to switch)

Just a few things to ponder. I don't necessarily want a pick up and play game; I do want a game where I understand what effect on the game my input has instead of the somewhat random feel it now seems to have at times.

Are we all just brainless idiots that should stop trying to play FM or is the game too complicated for its own good?

The first one.

SI simply aren't catering for those who want an easy game. Whether because of time constraints in life or just the simple fact that they want an easy life.

But aren't SI striving to create a simulation of real world football management? Easy and simulation don't go together

They can't make a game to please everyone, so they have to choose a direction for their game and stick with it. Everything in this world has a target audience, nothing caters for everyones needs. If SI even tried then they would end up losing fans who like the challenge. I suspect they would ideally like to find the perfect balance inbetween

SI simply aren't catering for those who want an easy game. Whether because of time constraints in life or just the simple fact that they want an easy life.

but whats the point of a game without a challenge so people actually want a game where they win everything going wouldn't that just be totally boring whats the point in choosing a tactic if everyone you choose results in a win

I think it is a bit too hard and that the default tactics should actually be of use. For people who havent got ages to spend on tactic it would be easy if the game came with tactics that worked a home and away for each formation.

but whats the point of a game without a challenge so people actually want a game where they win everything going wouldn't that just be totally boring whats the point in choosing a tactic if everyone you choose results in a win

All that's needed is a clearer idea of how the tactical sliders work in correlation to each other, rather than just telling us what each one does.

I think there are a couple of areas where the tactical aspect of the game can be massively improved.

Firstly, where possible, I'd say a graphical representation of what are tactical changes are doing is needed. So, when adjusting a players mentality, we could see the players position on the pitch alter slightly in accordance to this change, or when we alter the width, we could see our players either come closer together or move further apart. With closing down, we could see a 'zone of patrol' which would represent the area in which the player will close down. This should help make it a lot easier for people to understand the effect changing things is having.

Secondly, I'd say a tactical evaluation tool is much needed. At the moment, unless you watch the full match, or spend a lot of time going through the match report, it can often be hard to see where your tactic is failing, and I'm sure many of us don't have time to do that after every game. The assistant feedback is a good start, but I feel it needs to be widely expanded upon. An after match tool in where the assistant prepares the key moments for us to watch over and over again until we are happy would be a big step in the right direction. CM has ProZone, and whilst I don't think they have implemented it at all well, at least they have something. A similar tool in FM would be a massive help.

Personally, I feel that the balance between tactics and quality of players is pretty much ok. It could do with a bit of tweaking more in favour of the quality of player, but if it was taken too far, we'd rarely ever see a team like Hull or Stoke in the game getting there tactics right but being doomed because their players aren't good enough.

I think two things that would help this a lot are if the default tactics (and specific player positions) were better, and if the sliders were more understandable.

For example, take the issue with many people not understanding why the assistant is telling them there's a big gap between defence and midfield. I've seen posts by many people saying they've tried upping their defensive line, placing a defensive midfielder to help and other things, not realising that the issue is because of the mentalities of their players.

Yet if you use the default settings for specific positions, the mentality sliders are miles apart from each other. Central defenders are set with their mentalities to 1, with midfielders closer to the mid-range point. Using these will cause your assistant to tell you there's too big a gap, and will more than likely cost you a lot of points if you try to stick with these instructions. What's the point in having default instructions if they're so far away from being a good base set-up?

I don't want an easy game. I would go play my LBP on ps3 if I wanted to play easy games all day. I like challenging games. I used to play WoW in a top guild and would stick around for 30+ wipes a day just for a server first kill. (For those unaware, that's 6-8 hours straight on the computer with no rest, constantly dying to the same boss over and over because of lack of skill/raid harmony)

But what frustrates me is that even after many hours of reading and testing it is still too difficult to actually develop a tactic that works just as I intended. I don't care about losing. 'Winning' is not what gets me to play this game.

But I do play this game because my eyes only really want to see the players moving and passing and creating chances just like how I want them to. Whether the chances result in goals or not is a second problem.

The first and the main problem is that I want the players to play as I want them to, only that the part of translating my verbal instruction to tactical sliders is too ambiguous to achieve.

OR maybe the type of football I want to see just cannot be performed by the current ME, who knows..

I think there are a couple of areas where the tactical aspect of the game can be massively improved.

Firstly, where possible, I'd say a graphical representation of what are tactical changes are doing is needed. So, when adjusting a players mentality, we could see the players position on the pitch alter slightly in accordance to this change, or when we alter the width, we could see our players either come closer together or move further apart. With closing down, we could see a 'zone of patrol' which would represent the area in which the player will close down. This should help make it a lot easier for people to understand the effect changing things is having.

Secondly, I'd say a tactical evaluation tool is much needed. At the moment, unless you watch the full match, or spend a lot of time going through the match report, it can often be hard to see where your tactic is failing, and I'm sure many of us don't have time to do that after every game. The assistant feedback is a good start, but I feel it needs to be widely expanded upon. An after match tool in where the assistant prepares the key moments for us to watch over and over again until we are happy would be a big step in the right direction. CM has ProZone, and whilst I don't think they have implemented it at all well, at least they have something. A similar tool in FM would be a massive help.

Personally, I feel that the balance between tactics and quality of players is pretty much ok. It could do with a bit of tweaking more in favour of the quality of player, but if it was taken too far, we'd rarely ever see a team like Hull or Stoke in the game getting there tactics right but being doomed because their players aren't good enough.

those are very very good ideas have you posted them in the wish list for next year. i get some people want to pick it up and play but i believe they have this option because there is default tactics to choose from i think where people are struggling is they aren't winning as much as they would like and immediately complain its to hard. we all want to win things but a bit of reality in the game meaning you cant win everything every year is a good thing and a challenge

Got to be honest I don't change my tactics, I've managed to settle on one, my biggest problem is that my strikers aren't that great and not scoring goals.

My 2 wingers scored more last seson and noone had over 20 even though I scored over 80 league goals, got to FA and Champions League final.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=77175

Please stop missing my point bigguyinthesky

It's your tactics!!

Yes we know it's our tactics. We know the players can do well if we get every single slider in their perfectly correct settings.

But what's the point?

Let's face it. We all watch and play football. We understand all the basic aspects of football. But a large number of us just can't implement our ideas in the form of some slider settings. (And yes I've read that TT&F over and over again)

We all read that 18000 words of tactical talk and half of us still can't seem to get our Man Utd/Real Madrid sides to consistently and convincingly win games over very weak sides. Are we all just brainless idiots that should stop trying to play FM or is the game too complicated for its own good?

Why are these tactical sliders so important that if we get just a little bit wrong we get heavily punished for it? While it is important to have different options for various tactics, it is just getting ridiculous how the game almost completely relies on the specific tactical settings to determine a win or a loss. What about the actual ability of the players and the natural style of the team?

Is Mr. Guardiola so awesomely tactically superior and more experienced as a manager to Rijkaard and is that why Barcelona is doing so well at the moment?

Over the years it seems FM has gained way too much importance on the tactical micro management side of things. I suspect this has occurred because SI could not find any other legitimate improvements to implement year after year.

Please stop making this game more and more complicated. Making it more realistic does NOT necessarily mean making it more complicated. If the game is complicated it may be possible to replicate realism but it also means there will be less of us who will actually be able to play it to its potential. There are way too many large significant factors that affect the result of the game and most of us simply cannot cope to deal with the amount of detailed micro management needed for a successful team. And ultimately it will be less fun because we won't be able to tell the team exactly how we want them to play.

Maybe the assistant manager should play a bigger role in enlightening us of more factors that would significantly affect the match. And this should be turned on and off like the 'take care of team talk/friendlies' options so that you have the options to do it all by yourself or gradually learn from your assistant. Because to be honest, we are first time managers with no experience when we signed up for the top team so it would make sense in the game's context that we learn lots from the ass man at the start of the game.

Maybe the manual of the game should be much more focused to explain how the game's tactical engine works in detail. I mean, if tactics are THAT important in FM, shouldn't they be explained more from the actual developers instead of filling up the manual with rubbish that we all know already? Leave the 'what is soccer' kind of information for the American version please.

OR maybe the default tactics should provide a better idea of how that team plays in real football, not just the formation. I don't expect that for every single 4th division team but at least it should be there for the top division teams.

Thank you for spending your time to read if you haven't actually scrolled down out of boredom. You may just regard it as another moaning thread but just thought I'd vent my opinion.

good post

Please stop missing my point bigguyinthesky

i am not missing your point at all i am just giving you the other side of the coin you have your opinion and i have mine if you look back up at my posts i have said you have some good ideas but there is another view other than yours and i am just posting that view

Maybe I just have too high of an ambition to create a tactic that is simply not achievable with a game ME. Not about winning or losing, I'm a bit like that quote in TT&F from Arsene. Just wanna see some magical football of my dreams regardless of whether I win or lose. It's so exciting when the team shows few glimpses of passage of play as intended by my instructions (they usually don't result in goals, but that's not the point), but I just get frustrated that my intended type of play doesn't happen more than once or twice in a game.

Better explanation and elimination of some/lots of sliders are needed.

What's the point of having team sliders for creative freedom, mentality etc when setting one mentality for the entire team doesn't work?

Everything does need to be simplified - you can have realism without making things overly complicated.

The Op's post is brilliant.

Also robzilla is being reported for trolling.

It's your tactics!!

Let's face it. We all watch and play football. We understand all the basic aspects of football. But a large number of us just can't implement our ideas in the form of some slider settings. (And yes I've read that TT&F over and over again)

I agree with your post and I have quoted what I feel is the biggest issue; implementing our ideas into FM tactics.

This is the most important thing. If I want my team to play like Brazil, then I want to be able to do that in an easy way, but right now I can't because the match engine use the sliders in ways I don't understand.

If the TT&F is right, and I assume it is, then why is this info not available in the manual? How am I supposed to know that Rule Of One is a good way to set up your team? This isn't exactly common football knowledge.

I know some people manage to implement their ideas into tactics, but there is no way to do this properly unless you know how the ME works (or unless your are lucky with the sliders...).

I don't want an easy game, I just want to be able to make tactics which works like I want them to. I want to be able to say to myself: "Yes, my team plays the way I intended". Wether I win or loose is of less importance.

Another thing, slightly of topic:

My assman sometimes say: "Player X is used to play more/less direct" or "Player X is used to play at a higher/slower speed".

Shouldn't this be info available to me as a manager? I should be able to ask a player (or when I scout him) how he prefers to play.

Also robzilla is being reported for trolling.

Oh no

This is the most important thing. If I want my team to play like Brazil, then I want to be able to do that in an easy way, but right now I can't because the match engine use the sliders in ways I don't understand.

but every team cant play like brazil thats the point just because you want them to play like brazil doesn't mean they can

Another thing, slightly of topic:

My assman sometimes say: "Player X is used to play more/less direct" or "Player X is used to play at a higher/slower speed".

Shouldn't this be info available to me as a manager? I should be able to ask a player (or when I scout him) how he prefers to play.

but you have that information your assman gave it to you during the match and you have plenty of time to change it if you watch the whole match

I myself feel like im studying to be a manager do i get a NVQ once a pass ..

because this is no longer a game its a test

which has gone to far

a game is to play and enjoy after a hard day

a game is to live the dream of your team

fm is about to die .. it once had it all . but they are more intent of trying to make it has real has pos

keep fm a game to play and enjoy

but you have that information your assman gave it to you during the match and you have plenty of time to change it if you watch the whole match

Yes, but how about adding this info as a stat or "Prefered style of play" for each player or whatever so I know this before I buy someone?

There are way too many large significant factors that affect the result of the game and MOST of us simply cannot cope to deal with the amount of detailed micro management needed for a successful team.

Completely incorrect to say "MOST" of us. I'm no tactical genius either. Hell, I'm a Yank who came to the game as an adult. My club are doing just fine, my players perform as I would have them do. My results are quite realistic.

The problem I see throughout this thread is that those complaining want to see direct feedback by player as to how their tacitcal instructions are affecting the individual player and the overall play of the club.

SI are trying to provide as realistic as possible sim of managing a club. That's the bottom line. Those seeking the challenge of getting underneath the myriad details of running a club don't want it spoonfed to them. As I recall, managers don't get specific, inside-the-player's-head graphical feedback on how their instructions are actually being carried out. Given the same instructions, a very determined, aggressive player will carry them out differently than a more passive player.

Now, I do think a little clearer explanation of what you're "telling" the team by changing a slider would certainly add to the game experience, but what you can't do is expect to know how each player is responding to that sort of direction, because players are individuals.

Personally I'm not impressed with the OP's post, because if we're trying our best to simulate real life, then you've got to have the ambiguity of NOT being able to see a graphical representation of exactly how your instruction is being carried out by the individual player. You have to watch them play the match and screw things up, or perform well, to know how your instructions are being carried out.

The tactical bible published by wwfan and millie is invaluable. It's almost like going to get your badges. Using it has made a huge difference, and I find the play of my club looks much more like real football, and the results really mirror the quality of the club. And for those who say you shouldn't have to read through all that to play, well, plenty don't do so and have a good experience, but the fact is that you don't get to have your cake and eat it too. Realistic means both complicated and sometimes ambiguous. If you really want to up the realism, try attribute masking. RL managers don't get little lists of their player's and transfer prospect's abilities. Sure maybe Big Sam's people put numbers to them, but that's an interpretation of what they see on the pitch, not a direct feed from the player's insides

To say "you can have realism without making things overly complicated," well, in a way, yes, but they're not OVERLY complicated now. Imperfect, I'll grant you, but not overly complicated. Some seem to want an experience of managing without really doing too much managing. I think that's what the manager's mode in the FIFA series is for. This is simply not that sort of game.

Yes, but how about adding this info as a stat or "Prefered style of play" for each player or whatever so I know this before I buy someone?

thats a good idea i am not trying to be funny i just don't get those who seem just want to win no matter what they do it just doesn't make any sense to me every action has a consequence so if you get it wrong your punished just like buying a bad player. i think the depth is good and i like it its great when you've taken your time over a tactic and it works but its also good to see them go wrong and you have to change it to sort it out and you learn from your mistakes thats what management is about trial and error not just the win all the time

I think there is a bit of a misunderstanding. When someone says 'FM is less fun, I want to enjoy it', everyone goes 'ah you just want to win effortlessly'. This may be the case for a few people but it is not always true. To me 'Enjoyment' is being able to understand the game and being able to approach it with the WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get) mentality, and achieve things in your own way. If my team plays exactly according to my intended tactic and they go on a 30 game losing streak, that's fine because I'll just be happy and enjoy the type of play my players are making. (but of course I would change my approach to win more).

But at the moment the problem is I am having to tweak all the different aspect of the tactic in the hope that some day I'll get my message across to my team. Does anyone understand where I'm coming from?

I think there is a bit of a misunderstanding. When someone says 'FM is less fun, I want to enjoy it', everyone goes 'ah you just want to win effortlessly'. This may be the case for a few people but it is not always true. To me 'Enjoyment' is being able to understand the game and being able to approach it with the WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get) mentality, and achieve things in your own way. If my team plays exactly according to my intended tactic and they go on a 30 game losing streak, that's fine because I'll just be happy and enjoy the type of play my players are making. (but of course I would change my approach to win more).

But at the moment the problem is I am having to tweak all the different aspect of the tactic in the hope that some day I'll get my message across to my team. Does anyone understand where I'm coming from?

but you do want to win don't you we all do but your saying you want your tactics to work and your players to play to your instructions but what lets just say your instructions contradict themselves so it just wont work you cant have a pick this tactic and you will win its just not what the games about

The Quote function seems to be broken for me atm. So this is @ToonForever

You have completely misunderstood my point. I don't want any kind of feedback from the players. I don't want graphical representation of how they are carrying out my instruction.

I can easily see if they are playing as I intended when I watch the match. It is not a matter of HOW well they listen to my instruction.

But it is a matter of WHAT is being told to them through the sliders.

Now would you say that it is completely realistic to have very ambiguous idea of what it is that you are telling the players to do?

Unless I'm some goofy manager that always goes 'umm yeah... just go play well and score', then maybe yes I am being ambiguous but when I actually have specific instructions that I want to implement in the game but can not because this slider clashes with that slider and another slider cancels out the other slider. And the final message becomes something completely different. This is what frustrates me.

I think people forget about the element of randomness in this game. I seriously doubt if you have a sensible tactic with one slider just a notch or two 'wrong' that suddenly you're going to lose game after game due to the tiny tactics difference to optimal.

Even with optimal tactics and the best players you will sometimes lose to a worse team. It sounds a lot like you guys are upset that you're not winning every game, but even if there was a button that produced the perfect tactic for your players in each game, you would still stand to lose some of those games; that's football, and I don't think the tactics are really that big a problem.

As long as your basic structure is right and you're not telling your DC's to make forward runs constantly and to have free roles, chances are you should be fine. Maybe what throws a lot of people is that you need 4-5 basic tactics for different situations, you neither need, nor want, to get a 'perfect' tactic with every individual slider tweaked. Try taking a bigger picture view for a change and realise it's not just about 'winning'.

I think people forget about the element of randomness in this game. I seriously doubt if you have a sensible tactic with one slider just a notch or two 'wrong' that suddenly you're going to lose game after game due to the tiny tactics difference to optimal.

Even with optimal tactics and the best players you will sometimes lose to a worse team. It sounds a lot like you guys are upset that you're not winning every game, but even if there was a button that produced the perfect tactic for your players in each game, you would still stand to lose some of those games; that's football, and I don't think the tactics are really that big a problem.

As long as your basic structure is right and you're not telling your DC's to make forward runs constantly and to have free roles, chances are you should be fine. Maybe what throws a lot of people is that you need 4-5 basic tactics for different situations, you neither need, nor want, to get a 'perfect' tactic with every individual slider tweaked. Try taking a bigger picture view for a change and realise it's not just about 'winning'.

exactly

I think people forget about the element of randomness in this game. I seriously doubt if you have a sensible tactic with one slider just a notch or two 'wrong' that suddenly you're going to lose game after game due to the tiny tactics difference to optimal.

Even with optimal tactics and the best players you will sometimes lose to a worse team. It sounds a lot like you guys are upset that you're not winning every game, but even if there was a button that produced the perfect tactic for your players in each game, you would still stand to lose some of those games; that's football, and I don't think the tactics are really that big a problem.

As long as your basic structure is right and you're not telling your DC's to make forward runs constantly and to have free roles, chances are you should be fine. Maybe what throws a lot of people is that you need 4-5 basic tactics for different situations, you neither need, nor want, to get a 'perfect' tactic with every individual slider tweaked. Try taking a bigger picture view for a change and realise it's not just about 'winning'.

No, completely wrong.

We don't expect to win every game.

We just don't want to spend hours and hours on end fiddling with tactics to get our team playing how we want.

I think Sliders help alot and i always seem to do well with good teams and reasonably good with c**p teams. Maybe cos i use good short Attacking football

No, completely wrong.

We don't expect to win every game.

We just don't want to spend hours and hours on end fiddling with tactics to get our team playing how we want.

i dont spend hours and hours it takes me maybe ten minutes to set up my team before a match taking advise from my scout before hand and my assman during a match and by watching the match to see whats working and whats not quite simple really

Bigguyinthesky

You are still missing my point after all these posts. Yes I would like to win just like everyone BUT that is not where my frustration is coming from. If not winning was my frustration I could just quietly downloaded someone else's tactic that would score lots of goals.

I really wouldn't mind losing as long as I know exactly what I am telling my players. Because that means I can fix things with full intention and not just randomly/experimentally.

Yes my instructions might contradict each other, but that is my point. They could be contradicting themselves when I never intended them to.

No I do not just want an easy winning tactic, how many times do I have to say this? :confused:

i dont spend hours and hours it takes me maybe ten minutes to set up my team before a match taking advise from my scout before hand and my assman during a match and by watching the match to see whats working and whats not quite simple really

Yes, well done with that reply, you haven't grasped my post at all.

It's simple to copy someone's tactic and get results.

What's not simple is getting a team to play the way you want them to.

Wat does Assman mean?

Yes it's one thing to spot 'what's working' and 'what's not working'. It's a completely another issue to make 'what's not working' into 'what's working'.

Yes, well done with that reply, you haven't grasped my post at all.

It's simple to copy someone's tactic and get results.

What's not simple is getting a team to play the way you want them to.

i have grasped your post, what your saying is that you are no good at tactics and thats your fault not the games my team play how i want them to play fine

i have grasped your post, what your saying is that you are no good at tactics and thats your fault not the games my team play how i want them to play fine

What an utter troll

Give up now tbh because you're making yourself look rather sad.