SI, please don't do drastic changes to the game engine

Seriously, this is the first FM game version that I am enjoying since more than 5 years. Little tweaks? Yes, but please please please no big changes!

Ratings definitely need to be looked at (only reason that I stopped playing for the time being), and too many shots hitting the post, but besides these I don't see anything that needs to be changed. I'm particularly happy with the (FINALLY) realistic scorelines and the goal distribution. I'm surprised to see that some people saying bs stuff like "I don't care if it is not realistic, I wanna have more fun, I don't mind if my strikers score 50+ goals per season". If that's what you want, go play one of the crap versions of this game, score plenty, and win everything! Have fun!

But SI, pleaaaase keep this game as close as possible to where it is right now

To be honest i cant have the slightest succes in this game and i am really frustrated. But i think the match engine is good in general. What really bothers me is : -the standard tactics are useless

-cards and injuries still to much

- absolutely stupid decisions by the players, own goals that couldnt even be made if on purpose, player standing right next to teh ball and do nothing etc. . You all have seen this in your game and know what i mean.

-morale is much too important, i have a player who is my 1st striker and scored 5 in 7 in the first game and now has gone 20 games without a goal.

Biggest issue: When making the tactics so hard SI should have made it more accessible and easier to use. For example possibility of saving tactics with all the right players in place, PLAYER SPECIFIC SAVABLE INSTRUCTIONS (so i just put a player in and he has his instructions nad not the ones of the player substituted), useful tipps of the Ass. Man., options to give general instructions that are translated into sliders.

So in short, the problems with the engine itself are not too bad, but SI should try that you can actually understand tactics without having to quit your job and study FM. At the moment you would have to quit your job even if you are a tactical genius from the start, becuase adjusting tactics takes so much time. (for example adjusting tactics anytime you substitue players).

Example: A Pplayer is injured and i put a new one in before the game. I have to do the individual tactic for this player all over as he has different strenghts as the other. The way to go would be to be able to save individual tactics for every player and choose them from a pull down menu. Like: MILES Milesons tactics: 4-4-2 off, 3-5-2 def etc. Still a lot of work to do them but after they are mad ei can just pull the player in and choose from the saved Ind. tactics.

The match engine needs drastic changes. Little tweaks won't fix it - there are too many problems to too many aspects of it. Short term fix in the patch, then re-write it for 2010.

for pity's sake.

The match engine needs a complete overhaul.

Yeah agree with what bean824 and Wakers have said. The ME needs a drastic revamp.

I agree that the importance of morale and tactics should be toned down, but then again so many FM players love to spoend hours and hours on tactics. I really don't get it though, because these people are the ones who want more realism in the game, but in reality tactics are not that crucial. Most important thing should be the quality and form of players.

Having said that, I started with a regular 4-4-2, and just tweaked it to create my 4-4-2 defensive and 4-4-2 attacking tactics. I also created a 4-1-4-1 and 4-2-3-1 from the basic 4-4-2, and they all seem to work fine for me.

I think you guys concentrate on the degree of realism in 3D view way too much. Do you remember how much we all enjoyed the old CM games, where there was only commmentary? Try viewing the matches with commentary, and you will see what I mean. It is just too damn difficult (programmingwise) to use 3D to represent what happened in the game. It is a work in progress, and SI is getting better at it.

The more important thing for me is that OVERALL the game, the results make sense. If the game is playable long term (regens issue seems to be solved, so perfect ). If the transfer system is working. These are the crucial things. The rest is details/cosmetics.

Agree, defensive part of the ME needs complete overhaul

I'm surprised to see that some people saying bs stuff like "I don't care if it is not realistic, I wanna have more fun, I don't mind if my strikers score 50+ goals per season". If that's what you want, go play one of the crap versions of this game, score plenty, and win everything! Have fun!

I think you guys concentrate on the degree of realism in 3D view way too much. Do you remember how much we all enjoyed the old CM games, where there was only commmentary?

So are you for realism or fun? Seems rather contradictory that you spend your first post saying how great and realistic it is only to say later that the fun was back in the games where we could score 50+goals per season.

For one, please add the same amount of defensive tactical options as you to to the offensive side of the game. I think it is a common request.

Please feel free to make suggestions

Phwoar made a rather exhaustive post of 'feedback' on the bugs forum you might want to chek out: http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=75762

no doubt you've seen it already but a note of acknowledgement would do wonders for morale. :thup:

So are you for realism or fun? Seems rather contradictory that you spend your first post saying how great and realistic it is only to say later that the fun was back in the games where we could score 50+goals per season.

You completely misunderstood what I was saying. I was referring to the versions from some 7-8 years ago., the old series. Only after the new engine was first intorduced the crazy cricket scores started, and ruined the game for me.

Its all very well declaring it needs an overhaul, but some insight into which areas you think are beyond the scope of this release and its updates would be helpful to us all.

hey Paul this is a copy/paste from my earlier post incase you never seen it.

Well there is so much micro management in this game we can basically blame everything in the game on tactics,I mean you never won every game..its your tactics..to many injuries or too long injured..its your tactics...the tea lady never got your favorite pink cookies...its your tactics.you basically have 3 choices.

1.Goto the tactics forum and download someone else's tactics like many players have done and say "man I win alot of games now" when they should be saying"wow I put no thought into this game and look at me"and then post a "its your tactics"at every negative poster.

2.Do what I am doing and just find a tactic that you think is good and hope for the best come the next patch,I change my tactic from time to time if players are injured but I am sick of all the micro management in this game so I dont go over board,sure I have been on runs of 7 games without a win but I have also had runs of 11 games without defeat.

3.Realise you spent 50 euro on a football manager game that indeed turned out to be a blind slider game where a world class 11 could be beaten by a non-league side on any given day.

Now you may think there isnt a suggestion but there is...cut back on the micro management it is really killing the game,either that or make it so you ass manager can sort out certain things for you,I do like the idea of the ass manager feedback in the game but it is very badly implemented at the moment,he changes his mind every 5 mins sometimes and is impossible to keep up with him.

Also these blind sliders are going just too far,make it so everyone can understand and not just guys that spend hours on tactics or indeed guys that spend 2 mins to D/L someone else's tactics and think they are the greatest manager ever and feel the need to post "its your tactics"at everyone else that tries to play the game while using there own thoughts.

Yes realism is 1 thing but lets not forget games are suppossed to be fun and this latest edtion seems to have forgotten that.

Its all very well declaring it needs an overhaul, but some insight into which areas you think are beyond the scope of this release and its updates would be helpful to us all.

To be fair, I have posted that about 10 times

Please feel free to make suggestions

Well I don't want to do your entire job for you, but here is something..

Make it possible to 'double up' on opposing players only when the player is in possession of the ball; i.e. ronaldo, messi, ect.., without pulling everyone out of position. The close down quickly option doesn't really work, it just sends someone to close them down. What real teams do is have a second player designated to move quickly into support. A simple setting in the opposition instructions of 'close down always' and then the ability to list a player (maybe two) designated to close down. For Ronaldo I might list my two central midfielders and the closest of the two would immediately attempt to close down Ronaldo. If he was wide, the fullback would also be in the vicinity allowing the doubling up without always man marking.

Further, you could even make central midfielders switch sides in accordance with an opposition player. Thus, using the above outline, I would set my defensively minded midfielder to stay the same side as Messi and always close him down quickly, thus providing secondary support. That is how you build a defensive scheme.

Honestly Paul, my only suggestion would be to get everything that is currently implemented working 100%.

You've gone two releases in a row where you've added new features without fixing issues that were prevalent in FM07, and earlier, and so what you have now is a game that's being gradually expanded on loose foundations.

I'm talking about stuff such as closing down, which has never really been done well in FM since 07 (even then some people weren't happy with it) The new regen system is still not in a thoroughly decent state, and hasn't been since it was added.

The transfer system still isn't great - and you badly need to do something about how managers spend money (ai).

The game is in dire need of optimisation, which it looks like has been glossed over for the last two releases - FM08 would slow down on match days even on high spec machines, while FM09 just seems to run dog slow half the time even on some brand new machines, not to mention the relatively dismal 3d engine that needs an awfully high-spec system for what it is.

I could go into a long list here, but as I said, I could just as easily copy and paste my long list of grievances from previous topics, which I will do if you ask, in case you haven't seen it.

But the basic message is, get it fixed, polish it up as much as you can (3d engine included!) BEFORE you start cramming even more stuff into the game, otherwise, each release is going to be gradually worse and worse, and the longer you leave it, the harder it will be to fix.

I know you guys prioritise bugs - which is good, its the way things has to be done, but there comes a point where you must go through and fix the ones that are even listed as "annoyance" or whatever - i have a sneaky feeling some of those low priority bugs have been on the watch list for a couple of years.

Honestly Paul, my only suggestion would be to get everything that is currently implemented working 100%.

You've gone two releases in a row where you've added new features without fixing issues that were prevalent in FM07, and earlier, and so what you have now is a game that's being gradually expanded on loose foundations.

I'm talking about stuff such as closing down, which has never really been done well in FM since 07 (even then some people weren't happy with it) The new regen system is still not in a thoroughly decent state, and hasn't been since it was added.

The transfer system still isn't great - and you badly need to do something about how managers spend money (ai).

The game is in dire need of optimisation, which it looks like has been glossed over for the last two releases - FM08 would slow down on match days even on high spec machines, while FM09 just seems to run dog slow half the time even on some brand new machines, not to mention the relatively dismal 3d engine that needs an awfully high-spec system for what it is.

I could go into a long list here, but as I said, I could just as easily copy and paste my long list of grievances from previous topics, which I will do if you ask, in case you haven't seen it.

But the basic message is, get it fixed, polish it up as much as you can (3d engine included!) BEFORE you start cramming even more stuff into the game, otherwise, each release is going to be gradually worse and worse, and the longer you leave it, the harder it will be to fix.

I know you guys prioritise bugs - which is good, its the way things has to be done, but there comes a point where you must go through and fix the ones that are even listed as "annoyance" or whatever - i have a sneaky feeling some of those low priority bugs have been on the watch list for a couple of years.

Well said.

I said repeatedly before FM09 was released that I would accept a year without any new features, purely because many of the new ones we have got over the past 2-3 versions don't work properly. Added to this features that are central to the game, ie regens, transfers, the match engine etc have not worked well for a few years now.

Don't get me wrong I still love the game I am just getting slightly fed up with getting the game and seeing the exact same bugs.

Honestly Paul, my only suggestion would be to get everything that is currently implemented working 100%.

You've gone two releases in a row where you've added new features without fixing issues that were prevalent in FM07, and earlier, and so what you have now is a game that's being gradually expanded on loose foundations.

The transfer system still isn't great - and you badly need to do something about how managers spend money (ai).

But the basic message is, get it fixed, polish it up as much as you can (3d engine included!) BEFORE you start cramming even more stuff into the game, otherwise, each release is going to be gradually worse and worse, and the longer you leave it, the harder it will be to fix.

I agree with these points. But I still think that when overall gameplay is considered, FM 2009 is much much better than 2008. Ever since the new game was intorduced, this is the first time that I have hope that I can get back into this game. But that won't be possible if the game engine will go the other way again, where even your mediocre strikers start scoring bagloads of goals and you win everything within 2-3 seasons into the game.

1- Fix the rating system

2- Improve AI in transfer market so that AI teams will be competitive

I would like my defenders to stop spinning like they are in Strictly Come Dancing as an opposition player who was 100 yards from the ball comes and nicks it off their toe!!

I think the level of the oppostions closing down is unrealistic....if it was just the sides who have world class players i wouldnt complain but its unrealistic how fulham will close down like man utd would and at same time my team seems to happy with jockeying and dancing around the oppostion..

crap teams completely outplay your so-called great players, lol. i think we need big changes!

FM09 includes the biggest leap forward in ME for years. Normally after such a jump, the next couple of years involve fine-tuning. I would expect SI do follow this pattern and progressively improve the 3D graphics.

However, there is a new component now: most of the changes to FM09's ME came via FMLive. If that product takes off, it should highlight areas that need working on, and then they will be ported over to FM10.

i know the game needs to cheat to make it hard... but come on, teams like hearts dont pull off world class passes like that in real life (i mean, they hardly even string 2 passes together in real life lol)

im rangers and winnng but my team is completely outplayed nearly every week (feels like im playing barcelona every week lol)

The AI in the transfer market really needs to be fixed. Teams with money keep signing players and young prospects even if they have 3 or 4 world class players in the same position already. It's been like that for a few years and should be fixed. Make them less likely to sign a player in a certain position depending on some things: the manager's tactics, if they already have one that's performing well, is young so he won't need a short term replacement, is getting good ratings, has high CA/PA, etc. as well as decent backup or a good prospect in the squad as well to cover.

For example, Madrid have no less than five class defensive midfielders in their squad: Inler, De la Red, Gago, Veloso and a regen with amazing stats. However, the only good right back they have is Sergio Ramos, no cover for him. Barcelona are similar except with strikers (Bojan, Henry, Eto'o, Huntelaar and Mario Gómez: and they play a lone forward up front) and attacking midfielders...but their entire first choice backline is 33 or older except for Albiol, and they have no cover. I'm sure I could list many more examples.

Surely if you have a stars rating for players this can be implemented in some way. If there's a well rated, not so old player in a position, and there's good backup, then teams should be looking to fortify other areas and spend according to their needs.

Make height significant when it comes to aerial ability and heading.

Cheers for the feedback all. Mr Wakers, your presence really would have been helpful on the "other forum" we discussed the other day

Secret SI forum?

There should be a "SuperStar Exception" option; hypothetically, this option will allow the board to give you a extra bit of cash to sign a star player with a relatively amazing reputation. This is important for non-top clubs, where sometimes you find a rare moment where a huge-star is willing to sign for your average club, but you are 50k or something short. The "superstar exception" should make the board cognize that you are about to make a huge signing, and then the relatively trivial amount cash that is needed is brought in, any way possible.

I agree with what Wakers said. Rather than keep adding new features, perfect what is already there. FM08 had plenty of ME issues, enough to make me stop playing altogether. FM09 is an improvement and the ME is close to excellent, but there are still annoying little issues that need fixing in the patch. SI should know exactly what they are, they have been discussed here and in the bugs forum many times and I'll be very disappointed if they aren't addressed

I don't believe the ME needs an overhaul though, it's very very good and the few issues are enough to spoil the other elements of it which make it great. Once they are fixed, it will all come together and shine

I don't particularly care that the press conferences won't be improved in a patch, an to be honest I haven't found any other problems in the game that bother me, it's just the ME (the most important part of the game for me by far)

However for FM10 rather than add another load of features, some of which will be half-arsed and lacking due to time constraints, take what is already there and improve it. You have just under a year to add in vast amounts of new press conference questions and make team talks more intuitive and purposeful

Despite what anyone else says though, FM09 is definitely a step in the right direction

Cheers for the feedback all. Mr Wakers, your presence really would have been helpful on the "other forum" we discussed the other day

Try and give me a couple of weeks notice next time and i'll be delighted to help you out Paul

I'm fed up with the match engine. I've just done something I have never done on FM before - switched it off mid-match. I am tired of watching teams like Stoke knock the ball around like Brazil. I am bored of seeing centre backs volley clearances direct to the centre forward who strides through to score. I don't have time to research the secrets of tactics and I don't believe the representation of tactics in the game reflects real life. I don't sit at my PC to be constantly ****ed off. Don't get me wrong, I can take defeat, but the way some games turn out is to be honest ridiculous. If a small team beats a big team then usually it is because they work harder, they tackle well, they are organised and they get a bit of luck. They don't usually win by playing them off the park with samba football and constantly hitting you on the break because your defensive line is one click too high.

The game I turned off was Everton at home to Stoke. Team set up according to TT&F playing attacking, but not too attacking. No chances in the first half. Encouraged my troops as we had lots of possession and sent them out. Stoke stride through me playing one touch Arsenal style football and take the lead. I go slightly more attacking and rejig defensive line, passing styles, width etc. Result? Wave after wave of Stoke attack. So what am I supposed to do? Respond to going a goal down by playing more defensive? Maybe the match engine means you should do that in FM but that's not realism.

I'll buy FM 2010, but each year I give up on the game earlier and earlier. Last season it was February, this time it is 3 weeks after the game came out. Another failure to provide an immersive, realistic experience and that'll be it for me.

There should be an option to set how deep or how high up the field your midfielders are but other than that i dont the engine needs a complete overhaul but maybe score more one on ones.

personally i think it all steams from ai's closing dwn seems to be world class no matter the team! fulham, stoke etc should not close down like chelsea, man utd etc.....

other then that i dont see any major probs really...i persoanlly seems to batter most teams but i hardly get a second on the ball cos it seems most teams have this secret new slider of 'ultra closing down' haha that they have put to 20!! either that or they been on the redbull before the game"

If that's what you want, go play one of the crap versions of this game, score plenty, and win everything! Have fun!

What versions are you talking about as that is EXACTLY the way i want to play?

personally i think it all steams from ai's closing dwn seems to be world class no matter the team! fulham, stoke etc should not close down like chelsea, man utd etc.....

other then that i dont see any major probs really...i persoanlly seems to batter most teams but i hardly get a second on the ball cos it seems most teams have this secret new slider of 'ultra closing down' haha that they have put to 20!! either that or they been on the redbull before the game"

Actually i think you'll find that Fulham are better than closing down at Chelsea in real life.

You don't see Malouda, Kalou, Deco, Anelka pressing all the time, if at all.

Actually i think you'll find that Fulham are better than closing down at Chelsea in real life.

You don't see Malouda, Kalou, Deco, Anelka pressing all the time, if at all.

ACTUALLY i think you'll find i was trying to make a general pt of lower class teams overperforming all the time, regards to closing dwn

wind your neck in..

ACTUALLY i think you'll find i was trying to make a general pt of lower class teams overperforming all the time, regards to closing dwn

wind your neck in..

well fine, but you used completely the wrong example

well fine, but you used completely the wrong example

yer maybe but people in general seemed to grasp my pt, no need to be a tit and try and correct me for no gain for urself at all.

yer maybe but people in general seemed to grasp my pt, no need to be a tit and try and correct me for no gain for urself at all.

Now come on, there's no need to start insulting me here. The point you made was important to the debate, and it was wrong.

Now come on, there's no need to start insulting me here. The point you made was important to the debate, and it was wrong.

people like you really annoy me there was no reason at all for your first post regarding mine but to just belittle my pt of view. basically tryin tobe a little smart ass

people like you really annoy me there was no reason at all for your first post regarding mine but to just belittle my pt of view. basically tryin tobe a little smart ass

That wasn't my reason for posting at all. I actually agreed with your sentiments and felt that your point needed to be corrected for it to be stronger. Calm down ffs.

Keep it civil guys, please.

I'm all for Wakers points (in the post suggesting what needs to happen for the next version).

Fix what exists, fix silly things that have been around for far too long (is there some kind of multiple release waved list at SI? ) and look at ways in which you can generally polish the whole game (including UI/graphical presentation) and release more complete (read less bugged) games.

I'm loving 09 (especially after finding out one major problem I had it was self-inflicted!) but it is coming across as Wakers fears - growing with new features but to the detriment of minor issues not yet fixed.

Optimistic Dave[/b];2240799]I'm fed up with the match engine. I've just done something I have never done on FM before - switched it off mid-match. I am tired of watching ... blah blah blah ...

I'll buy FM 2010, but each year I give up on the game earlier and earlier. Last season it was February, this time it is 3 weeks after the game came out. Another failure to provide an immersive, realistic experience and that'll be it for me.

Blimey, I'm just glad you're not Pessimistic Dave

My issue is the game is seems to have gone beyond SI.

Its a complex beast of coding and what they brought is fantastic animal but equally the tactical eleiment for some reason never been touched baring odd tweaks.

The result is tactical eliment is not realistic. The defending is FM not reality. What SI needs is pro managers give up there time telling how in every situation the system works from 4-4-2 to 5-3-2.

Although SI getting there there is still bits which just dont look right. Take defending wide free kicks from 40 yards. Although we see a more realistic than previous once the ball is been kicked there seems little hinger for attacking team to preasure the box. Equally no defensive retreat like you get in real life. Yes the goal is to hold the line and let it safely drift to the keeper but how many times in real life its successful and the attack gets to pressure the goal.

Another issue is goalkicks its still way unrealistic always a 1v1 challenge. With even some crazy issue where one defender decides he will take charge and try beat a midfielder leaving his man. With no-one moving to cover him. If he misses it its free run for the attacker. This is FM way of starting a goalkick in play not reality.

Reality is its a midfield or defensive ruck usually 2v2 or 2v1 with players stood for scraps and battle. Even very long kicks to try hit the gaps behind the defence and goallie for quick strikers to beat the defence. Defence would drop off as a unit to try eliminate this.

There lies an issue the game treats as an example 4-4-2 as riggid whole unit. In reality its like an elastic band the 2 dc's work as a team. The DC and fullback work as a team. The DC MC work as a team. You get the picture and the team works as two banks of four as defensive mechanism. Now depending on the manager this either flat two banks of 4 or staggered. Although most managers will tell you not to get caught square.

Si need to look at how diferent systems work and then give us the opportunity to set up how we want the defensive systems

If a DC goes to try head the ball his teamate covers his back. You dont get this. Now there is the eliment of error players daydreaming and not pushing out or getting out of position which the game needs to feature to make it more realistic.

Now comes tartics currently at players disposal. There is some largely grey issues is width for attack or defending. Just one example therefore we should have with ball without ball commands.

There should even be dual second option especially set plays what if there is no body to mark for that player He just stands in the box. Yet there is a player free outside the box. We should be able say mark player if no one free then charge down shot or mark man outside box. I also get annoyed that sometimes its my dc brings it out the box why.

There is also an issue of the game defining when a set piece is not a set piece anymore. In reality if there is a chance of still being able to cross players should treat it as the set play to a degree. The defence depending on the ball should try push out and try and treat it as a like a long deep freekick. hat you get is forwards/midfield move out from defending side and dcs running back to defence.

There is an issue with fullbacks on attacking corners they never mark if they do they ignore the striker and run to full back positions. Yet reality they act like DC's until either holding up is succesful enough for DC's to get back or the play is dead.

The game is great but you now need realism in tactical systems. I know you have had Ray Houghton help with technical aspects but you need some managers to provide insight in how teams defend as a unit.

I would also like in the future a way to coach players to style to tell them where they went wrong, why they was out of position. For them to learn and take on board.

I do have an idea which would invove a return to the old have ball have not but only use it to show players after a game what they did wrong in that play. This for those who wish not to micro manage could be over seen by assistant and coaches.

Excellent post there mertle, i agree with every point

Theres comng a point where Si need to decide if they want to make a game or simulation. At the moment its trying to be both and its failing at both.

i gotta agree with the OP... i'm enjoying this edition of FM much more than previous ones (it's my favourite since 01/02 - my first ever FM/CM)

To be honest i cant have the slightest succes in this game and i am really frustrated. But i think the match engine is good in general. What really bothers me is : -the standard tactics are useless-cards and injuries still to much

- absolutely stupid decisions by the players, own goals that couldnt even be made if on purpose, player standing right next to teh ball and do nothing etc. . You all have seen this in your game and know what i mean.

-morale is much too important, i have a player who is my 1st striker and scored 5 in 7 in the first game and now has gone 20 games without a goal.

Biggest issue: When making the tactics so hard SI should have made it more accessible and easier to use. For example possibility of saving tactics with all the right players in place, PLAYER SPECIFIC SAVABLE INSTRUCTIONS (so i just put a player in and he has his instructions nad not the ones of the player substituted), useful tipps of the Ass. Man., options to give general instructions that are translated into sliders.

So in short, the problems with the engine itself are not too bad, but SI should try that you can actually understand tactics without having to quit your job and study FM. At the moment you would have to quit your job even if you are a tactical genius from the start, becuase adjusting tactics takes so much time. (for example adjusting tactics anytime you substitue players).

Example: A Pplayer is injured and i put a new one in before the game. I have to do the individual tactic for this player all over as he has different strenghts as the other. The way to go would be to be able to save individual tactics for every player and choose them from a pull down menu. Like: MILES Milesons tactics: 4-4-2 off, 3-5-2 def etc. Still a lot of work to do them but after they are mad ei can just pull the player in and choose from the saved Ind. tactics.

they arent if used with the right players for example 4-5-1 attacking at milan has done me wonders..... ive lost 1 game out of 24 and destroying opponents with the casual day where it doesnt go quite right and we still manage a draw

we just beat roma 3-0 using a standard tactic

they arent if used with the right players for example 4-5-1 attacking at milan has done me wonders..... ive lost 1 game out of 24 and destroying opponents with the casual day where it doesnt go quite right and we still manage a draw

we just beat roma 3-0 using a standard tactic

Your point isn't particularly valid, as you mentioned managing Milan, with which the game is a damn site easier than managing a normal team.