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dudubrdx
11-01-2008, 16:27
Has anybody noticed that in the new patch a player will have his peak much later than in any other Fm?

I remember in Fm07 if i took a 14 Year old FRED with a 190 PA at Barca, he would get first team action at 19 or 20. He could even be world class by that time.
In the new patch, this has significantly changed. I've noticed players develop much more slowly.
I even have a player with a 195PA whos stuck with a 105CA, at 27!
I've been coaching him for years and really thought he would be great for me, but he's not.

I use Timster's ultimate training schedules, they were working great in the beta patch..

dudubrdx
11-01-2008, 16:27
Has anybody noticed that in the new patch a player will have his peak much later than in any other Fm?

I remember in Fm07 if i took a 14 Year old FRED with a 190 PA at Barca, he would get first team action at 19 or 20. He could even be world class by that time.
In the new patch, this has significantly changed. I've noticed players develop much more slowly.
I even have a player with a 195PA whos stuck with a 105CA, at 27!
I've been coaching him for years and really thought he would be great for me, but he's not.

I use Timster's ultimate training schedules, they were working great in the beta patch..

Fantazm
11-01-2008, 16:36
Starting CA seems too low. It's a known problem.....though not sure if anything's being done about it.

ljdzsgffk
11-01-2008, 18:01
I think youth development goes at the right pace. Players with PA of >180 reach near their potential at 23 and then develop much slower. I think that it about right.

However, I do think players start at too low of a CA.

Rickooko
11-01-2008, 20:10
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dudubrdx:
Has anybody noticed that in the new patch a player will have his peak much later than in any other Fm?

I remember in Fm07 if i took a 14 Year old FRED with a 190 PA at Barca, he would get first team action at 19 or 20. He could even be world class by that time.
In the new patch, this has significantly changed. I've noticed players develop much more slowly.
I even have a player with a 195PA whos stuck with a 105CA, at 27!
I've been coaching him for years and really thought he would be great for me, but he's not.

I use Timster's ultimate training schedules, they were working great in the beta patch.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I feel the same too. The developing of young players is very difficult now, espeically their "Agility" attributes such as pace, acceleration, jumping etc...

Dont you think a player with 195PA only got 105CA at age 27 is too weird??

bterz
12-01-2008, 03:30
It's now almost impossible to develop a decent youngster through your youth setup. There are no Messis, Rooneys, Patos etc in the game anymore. None of the regens reach a high CA early in their careers. I'm in 2012 in my current game and the CA of all of the FREDs is extremely low for them to ever have a chance to become wonderkids.

The worst thing is that when the time comes to choose 4 players that have come through your youth setup for the CL squad, you have to choose 4 random youngsters that will never play in a match, just to make up the numbers. I can only hope that I'll manage to have 4 players good enough to play in the CL by 2014, as my youngsters(?) will be over 23 by that time and there's a chance they will have reached a decent CA by that age. That's 7 years from the start of the game. I just don't think I should wait for this long to be able to use my youngsters. I never had to in previous versions. Were those unrealistic? I really don't think so.

Youth development is a vital part of the game for most of us and in it's current state it just doesn't work well enough. It's far from realistic. I hope this is something that is being looked at for the patch or FM09 at least.

Omnislash
12-01-2008, 03:48
I agree that youth development is slower than previous versions, but I have to say it's a GOOD thing.

Too many times in previous versions of FM, I get youngsters maxing out their PA at the age of 18, or the fact that I could assemble a whole team of 19-21 year olds that's practically invincible. Simply too much wonderkids who plays too well at a young age. Which is completely unrealistic.

FM08 probably swung the other way abit too much, but I would say it's still much much more realistic than previous versions. As a Premiership winning side, I need to sign players at least 23+ for my first team. However on very rare occasions there will be someone whom can become a first team player at the age 20. I am able to find maybe one every couple of seasons.

C. Ronaldo, Fabregas, Rooney all wasn't world beaters before turning 20 or 21. Messi is an exception as he's able to tear apart La Liga at the age of 18, but he's the type of player that comes along maybe once every decade. The original Ronaldo was another. Now I have to admit that I wasn't able to find anybody in FM08 like that even though I'm in 2026, hopefully it can be a improvement for the future.

Overall, Fm08 is more realistic in terms of player development IMO than previous versions.

Omnislash
12-01-2008, 03:55
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rickooko:

I feel the same too. The developing of young players is very difficult now, espeically their "Agility" attributes such as pace, acceleration, jumping etc...

Dont you think a player with 195PA only got 105CA at age 27 is too weird?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's quite realistic if you have a player with huge potential but simply don't live up to it. There's a massive list. Not everyone with potential can become world-class, apart from the coaching and mentor, he also needs the right mentality, the right attitude in order to continue improving himself after their initial breakthrough.

In FM08, as long as there's still a small group of players reaching high CA then it's realistic. If every player with good potential can reach it IRL then it would honestly be such a great relief for every manager in the world.

bterz
12-01-2008, 04:22
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Omnislash:
I agree that youth development is slower than previous versions, but I have to say it's a GOOD thing.

Too many times in previous versions of FM, I get youngsters maxing out their PA at the age of 18, or the fact that I could assemble a whole team of 19-21 year olds that's practically invincible. Simply too much wonderkids who plays too well at a young age. Which is completely unrealistic.

FM08 probably swung the other way abit too much, but I would say it's still much much more realistic than previous versions. As a Premiership winning side, I need to sign players at least 23+ for my first team. However on very rare occasions there will be someone whom can become a first team player at the age 20. I am able to find maybe one every couple of seasons.

C. Ronaldo, Fabregas, Rooney all wasn't world beaters before turning 20 or 21. Messi is an exception as he's able to tear apart La Liga at the age of 18, but he's the type of player that comes along maybe once every decade. The original Ronaldo was another. Now I have to admit that I wasn't able to find anybody in FM08 like that even though I'm in 2026, hopefully it can be a improvement for the future.

Overall, Fm08 is more realistic in terms of player development IMO than previous versions. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree that we shouldn't get Messis year in year out, but we should at least get a couple of players that can play decently in the EPL or Serie A or whatever by the age of 20. My problem is that we don't even get those as it stands now.

The fact that you didn't get an exceptional youngster in 20 years is very worrying in my opinion. I truly want to believe that we won't have to wait until 2030 to see another true wonderkid IRL. The training facilities, scouting and coaching knowhow is getting better and better worldwide and the chance of getting better players at a younger age is becoming more possible than ever before. I think SI should keep this in mind for the future. Long gone are the days that the best players were picked up by scouts that happened to see them while they were kicking around in a backyard with their mates. It's all very organised nowadays and the result will be more and more players that will be ready to play for the first team while still in their teens.

matthiele
12-01-2008, 04:22
ive noticed this as well. the few players with high pa usually start with very low ca. it is a problem that si need to fix. i dont think it needs a massive tweak but definately needs to be looked at.

Rickooko
12-01-2008, 05:08
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Omnislash:
It's quite realistic if you have a player with huge potential but simply don't live up to it. There's a massive list. Not everyone with potential can become world-class, apart from the coaching and mentor, he also needs the right mentality, the right attitude in order to continue improving himself after their initial breakthrough.

In FM08, as long as there's still a small group of players reaching high CA then it's realistic. If every player with good potential can reach it IRL then it would honestly be such a great relief for every manager in the world. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I do agree in previous Cm/Fm youngster peak their PA too early at around 21, but so far i can hardly develope any FRED to a decent CA like 160 or so.

I just wonder if anyone have seen some decent FRED in their game who is improved well with their CA/PA at age 20 or so?? [post patch 8.0.1]

Would be great if you can post it here so we dont have to worry about the issue too much, thx! http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Omnislash
12-01-2008, 05:53
Up to 2026, me being actively seeking talented youngster every year. This is the best regen I had: Craig Adams - 21 y.o. (http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y168/dracobra/?action=view&current=CraigAdam-21y.jpg).

I got a few more pretty good regens however their stats don't look that impressive til they're at least about 23. I can find 18 year olds whom can hold their own in the Premiership. (however always strikers, wingers, never defenderse).

I guess when I say I never found a Messi was because Craig Adams only became really good when he turned about 20. He then went on to smash every single record held by Rooney. Winning Footballer of the Year for 5 years in a row. Still quite a stellar talent, just not at 18.

T-Bag
12-01-2008, 06:34
Just done a search on mine and the highest CA of any player 20 years or younger in my database is 139. That 1 player plays for me and I have been trying to make him good for about 4 years.

Rickooko
12-01-2008, 07:42
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Omnislash:
Up to 2026, me being actively seeking talented youngster every year. This is the best regen I had: Craig Adams - 21 y.o. (http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y168/dracobra/?action=view&current=CraigAdam-21y.jpg).

I got a few more pretty good regens however their stats don't look that impressive til they're at least about 23. I can find 18 year olds whom can hold their own in the Premiership. (however always strikers, wingers, never defenderse).

I guess when I say I never found a Messi was because Craig Adams only became really good when he turned about 20. He then went on to smash every single record held by Rooney. Winning Footballer of the Year for 5 years in a row. Still quite a stellar talent, just not at 18. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your youngster Craig looks really good with his stats at age 21, good for you. http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

And he got excellent aerobic stats (acceleration 15, pace 18, jumping 17). If he born with those stats or gain from development? Since i have great trouble in bringing up my FRED's physical stats, especially with Aerobic one.

Rickooko
12-01-2008, 07:45
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by T-Bag:
Just done a search on mine and the highest CA of any player 20 years or younger in my database is 139. That 1 player plays for me and I have been trying to make him good for about 4 years. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dont you think it is a bit low, especially compare with what we got at the beginning of the game.

I believe there is an issue here, hopefully SI can have a look at it, better before the release of the coming patch! (and likely the last patch for fm08)

T-Bag
12-01-2008, 07:58
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rickooko:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by T-Bag:
Just done a search on mine and the highest CA of any player 20 years or younger in my database is 139. That 1 player plays for me and I have been trying to make him good for about 4 years. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dont you think it is a bit low, especially compare with what we got at the beginning of the game.

I believe there is an issue here, hopefully SI can have a look at it, better before the release of the coming patch! (and likely the last patch for fm08) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes !

I think this is a huge issue ! My main enjoyment on FM comes from long term games and bring through new players. I love bring through some youth striker then him playing 15 seasons or so for me and becoming a club legend. It is just impossible to do this on FM08.

As I have become more and more disillusioned with the game I have started using mini scout to cheat. I've done most of what I wanted to do with the game so decided to use this to check PA/CA.

There is NO wonderkids on my game ! I have 5-6 young strikers in my squad who have a PAs ranging from 170-199. At the age of 23 most of them are around 140-150. I've ended up selling some of them on because they wouldn't go out on loan and I didn't have enough room in the first team to develop them.

You get about 10-15 CA increase each season which isn't enough with the low starting CA. Of course some players SHOULD peak late, some players should NEVER reach their CA, but SOME players SHOULD become wonderkids and SOME players should become brilliant in their early 20's

The other major problem this is linked to is what happens to CA once a player reaches 30/31/32. It depends on the individual player but somewhere around those ages they suffer MASSIVE drops in CA and their attributes. I'm talking losing anywhere between 20-40 CA in a season.

So it effectively means you get a player who is good from the age of 26-30. I can't exactly get 15 seasons out of my new superstars !

There was another huge thread on here about huge development so si should be aware of it. I wont hold my breath for this to be fixed in the patch though.

For people who do play long term games this is definitely a game breaker.

Omnislash
12-01-2008, 08:04
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rickooko:

Your youngster Craig looks really good with his stats at age 21, good for you. http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

And he got excellent aerobic stats (acceleration 15, pace 18, jumping 17). If he born with those stats or gain from development? Since i have great trouble in bringing up my FRED's physical stats, especially with Aerobic one. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have training schedules for Aerobics and Strength both on High, but his base stats were pretty good too. I think his acceleration was low and 15 was as far as he ever got.

Craig Adams - 29 years old (http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y168/dracobra/CraigAdams-2026.jpg)

Rickooko
12-01-2008, 08:50
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by T-Bag:

There was another huge thread on here about huge development so si should be aware of it. I wont hold my breath for this to be fixed in the patch though.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Would you please point me to that thread?

Seems like this is a huge issue for everyone, not just my training schedule for youngster or the like. http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

T-Bag
12-01-2008, 09:09
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rickooko:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by T-Bag:

There was another huge thread on here about huge development so si should be aware of it. I wont hold my breath for this to be fixed in the patch though.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Would you please point me to that thread?

Seems like this is a huge issue for everyone, not just my training schedule for youngster or the like. http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here you go http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://community.sigames.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/521102691/m/5312018663

Rickooko
12-01-2008, 10:04
thx. http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

mg9106
12-01-2008, 14:02
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dudubrdx:
Has anybody noticed that in the new patch a player will have his peak much later than in any other Fm?

I remember in Fm07 if i took a 14 Year old FRED with a 190 PA at Barca, he would get first team action at 19 or 20. He could even be world class by that time.
In the new patch, this has significantly changed. I've noticed players develop much more slowly.
I even have a player with a 195PA whos stuck with a 105CA, at 27!
I've been coaching him for years and really thought he would be great for me, but he's not.

I use Timster's ultimate training schedules, they were working great in the beta patch.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah definitely, Its taking way to long, 27 really is a bit late, any time between 20 and 23 seems reasonable IMO, with the occasional late bloomer or early bloomer.

xouman
14-01-2008, 06:28
In my game (now in 2024), there are no messis, rooneys or fabregas. Youngest stars are 23, quite young but not as IRL. Also lots of players peak at 30-32 and a couple of years later, they crumble.
Also problems with mature players. gareth bale played 108 times for wales, and was at inter until 32. Until he was 30, he was an amazing player. Then between 30-33 he was a decent EPL-good Championship. Next year he lost 30% of his overall stats and wasn't good enough for L2 (two divisions leven in less than one year), altought he was playing matches at cardiff. quite weird

SiDolman
14-01-2008, 07:31
Im getting sick of the argument that players peaked too earlier versions. Many players peak very early and never really get any better (e.g michael owen), and many players dont peak until later on.

All the game needs is a bigger variation on starting CA's and speed of development. On the game at the moment, you generally always know when a player will peak which makes it a bit boring. Its yet another problem that was strangely overlooked by SI.

Joor
14-01-2008, 07:58
All we need is abit more young regens with a higher CA 100-120 range - problem solved

Filbert Fox
14-01-2008, 08:09
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Joor:
All we need is abit more young regens with a higher CA 100-120 range - problem solved </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree.

The big question is if SI can be arsed to sort this out how will it affect your current game??????

diceman23
14-01-2008, 08:42
Can i just ask?

Where do you get the CA number?

Because all i see in my game is a certain number of stars?

Thanks

Filbert Fox
14-01-2008, 08:45
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by diceman23:
Can i just ask?

Where do you get the CA number?

Because all i see in my game is a certain number of stars?

Thanks </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You'll need to download a program called mini scout.

Check out the editors forum if you want to download it.

Careful though, it may spoil the game for you.