Unhappy

I brought the game on Saturday, and was delighted at how quickly the game ran, the new 3d system, and generally happy with the game.

Now however in my 5 year as coventry manager i get the dreaded, "array access out of bounds".

I would like to vent my frustrations towards SI;

Firstly, its all well and good adding patches to games, but how do game players without internet acces recieve these patches

Secondly, if i sent my copy of fm09 back to you guys at SI would you send me a refund?, because my local asda store will not refund my purchase.

I feel that you at Si are abusing the loyal fan base of your customer!

Cllr Jon-Paul Howarth

SI won't refund you, its a retailer issue.

Have you actaully installed the patch?

When does the error occur, on a certain date? If so try going on holiday.

The point is . . . You should not need a patch ffs , I have no intenet come on here for ten minutes what about people with no net ??

All software requires patching. Nothing is ever released without bugs. That includes FM.

All software requires patching - Not true

Yep I have the patch installed, i returned from holiday, then all of a sudden every champions league fixture whizzes through on my screen then about 100 "array access out of bounds appear".

Thats what i was getting at, you should not need a patch to play a game, there is nowhere on the FM09 case that states you must have an internet connection to play this game.

the patch x box games and all sorts now. its happens all the time.

Bugs yes, not games that dont work!

Patch changelist

That many Bugs in the one game a week after realease

Bugs yes, not games that dont work!

The game does work.

All software requires patching - Not true

Yes it is true. There is no such thing as bug free software. If you think there is software that doesn't require a patch then I'd like you to provide examples.

Yes, and they got fixed. Don't really get what the issue is, patching is a GOOD thing !

In the ideal world bugs wouldn't exist, unfortunately they do and patching is the only way around it.

Get a grip.....end of!!!

its a big game. I mean even Microsoft release patches all the time for their OS. I bet you still buy those though.

The vast majority of software will still contain bugs upon release hence patches are an almost unavoidable inconvenience. Can you remember any commonly used piece of retail software that you've used for more than 6 months that has never been patched?

so what if you don't have the net

so what if you don't have the net

umm, not sure how to answer that.

Sega may send a patch out on a CD if you ask them nicely.

Patch changelist

That many Bugs in the one game a week after realease

think of the players spending alot of money on the game and doesnt have internet at home. they gotta play with all those bugs haha

so what if you don't have the net

Get the net.

so what if you don't have the net

That's a difficult one to answer. But it's not SI's fault some people don't have internet access. Software always requires patches, and it's hard to think of a better way to get them to the majority of users.

so what if you don't have the net

i dont believe in this day and age there is no way for anyone to access the internet somehow and download it. I am sure 10 years ago games were just released and that was it. Tough if there were any issue. We should be thankful for patching and the fact it continues to improve the game.

Quite a few of those tweaks listed aren't actually "bugs". It works as intended but then is shown to be too much (for example the level of injuries), so is tuned down.

Microsoft always update their software over the internet - that is fixing bugs and security holes.

The larger a software package is, the more likely it is to have data issues or bugs.

I personally see the injuries "bug" to be a data error rather than a bug.

so what if you don't have the net

Some PC gaming magazines often have patches available on disks, or at least they use to. And I'd imagine that few people who come on these forums realise there are many problems. I have a friend who never patched 08 and though it was brilliant, whilst I didn't realise there were problems with CM4 until visiting the CM forums, and that game was riddled with bugs.

This thread has taken moaning to a whole new level, what hope do we have when patching is critised !

If someone doesn't have access to the internet, there are many places you can go to get access to the internet to download the patch - internet cafe, the library etc. There are very few people who don't know someone with internet access.

All games get patched. Stop crying about it. A lot of gamers encounter unplayable games due to some bug and require a patch to play. **** happens, but **** can get fixed. That's how it is.

In this modern age patches for games are indeed acceptable. If you don't have internet access I suggest you get yourself an USB flash drive or something similar (These are so dirt cheap by now that it is riddiculous), get on a computer with internet and download it from there.

You don't buy a car and take it back when needs to be repaired at some point. All sorts of products have issues and "bugs". Welcome to the world.

SI won't refund you, its a retailer issue.

I doubt it is? - you could hardly take the new Coldplay album back because it is "crap". Not saying FM09 is "crap" (I love it), but it IS playable, just not in the way / to the standard that we want / are used to. All that said (and I had my share of annoyed input on friday!) I hope we soon lay off the SI guys as I suspect they are just as upset as we are. They seem to be doing all possible to help sort this mess, and so they should of course. However, lessons must be learned!.

array out of bound error has never caused my save game to completely fail on me. it will dump me to the desktop but then i just reload it.

and as for not getting a refund from asda. give it back saying the game is broken. it doesn't work, they've given you a dud game. they're not going to test it there and then and they will "usually" give you a refund.

after all, in the case i've just explained it would be there problem. they can't claim you took the celofane stuff off and so their not going to refund you because you can't tell that its broken until you do take the celofane off.

Cllr Jon-Paul Howarth looks so young in his photo

http://www.nelincs.gov.uk/Council/Councillors/Councillor?ID=3461

i agree with you on this i mean dont they play the game before release come on i played the game without the patch and within 10 minutes i knew about 5 things that were wrong with it, injuries were far to many the game froze unless on windowed mode and many more. so i agree you must be unable to play it if you cant get the patch and im afraid thats wrong if i bought a telly and took it home and it didnt work im able to get a full refund or a new telly

Obviously thinks SI will give him a refund or hand deliver a patch to his house if he puts Cllr on his post !

array out of bound error has never caused my save game to completely fail on me. it will dump me to the desktop but then i just reload it.

and as for not getting a refund from asda. give it back saying the game is broken. it doesn't work, they've given you a dud game. they're not going to test it there and then and they will "usually" give you a refund.

after all, in the case i've just explained it would be there problem. they can't claim you took the celofane stuff off and so their not going to refund you because you can't tell that its broken until you do take the celofane off.

Agreed

sometimes it makes it impossible to sign a certain player but you can continue its not life threatening

but how do game players without internet acces recieve these patches

Cllr Jon-Paul Howarth

Might be a bit of a daft question, but if you don't have net access, how can you post on these forums??

And if the answer is "because I'm at work/uni/internet cafe" then why not get it downloaded to a usb stick.

And if the answer is "because I can't afford one/get one/find one" then get off your lazy ass and earn money/buy one/search harder!!!!!

So many moaners on this forum!!!!!!!! The game is a work of art. I've only got a graphics card good enough to run 2d, but the Matchday Info is genius!! Loving this game, for the first time since CM 03/04, and would like to say thanks to SI!

Sort your pcs out if it doesn't work!

Yes it is true. There is no such thing as bug free software. If you think there is software that doesn't require a patch then I'd like you to provide examples.

i wrote a little program a few years ago that multiplied 1 by 1. im pretty sure that was bug free

i dont believe in this day and age there is no way for anyone to access the internet somehow and download it. I am sure 10 years ago games were just released and that was it. Tough if there were any issue. We should be thankful for patching and the fact it continues to improve the game.

Not true! 10 years ago CM97/98 really needed to be patched! With the unpatched game your best players would ask for the princely sum of £55,000 but the game would not allowed anyone, not Manchester United, not Barcelona, not Juventus, to go above £50,000.

Patches have always existed and always will. With a console game, you eliminate problems like the activation thing with FM because every 'computer' its on is exactly the same and needs no activation - but when a game has problems, there's not much can be done after it goes gold. With PC gaming, you get problems but patches come and fix them. The game went Gold a number of weeks ago which is why the team already have a patch out, for issues they found since then. Oh, and expect quite a few patches - the match engine is coming from FM Live which gives the team -constant- feedback on how to improve balance issues and such.

what about people with no net ??

They make do with the software as it is released. Just as they would have to do without Windows Updates and fixes for any other software they have.

Unless of course you're expecting Miles, Ter or someone to hand deliver a disc. It may not mention requiring the internet on the box but the fact remains that the internet is the preferred method for delivering updates to software - common sense. This IS detailed in the manual in the section about the main menu iirc.

Compatibility

=============

- Fixed Intel 900 series not being able to run in 3D (including the Intel 950 GMA chipset)

- Handling cases of Intel drivers incorrectly reporting the vertex shader model.

.......

- Fixed striker diving to head ball out of keepers hands when yards away

- Fixed back header being hit unnaturally powerfully in for own goal

That many Bugs in the one game a week after realease

This patch was released on release date. Honestly I don't see the problem. If you don't have any means to connect to the internet (and get the patch) then tough nuggies for you. You should probably update yourself.

What people seem to forget is to draw a line between the demo and the released game. The game was pretty much fixed and ready to go on release date due to the aforementioned patch (And as I said, tough nuggies if you don't have internet). These bugs are in the past and where never an issue really. Only problem is that people felt like they had a right to whine and moan over the demo when in fact they didn't.

I brought the game on Saturday, and was delighted at how quickly the game ran, the new 3d system, and generally happy with the game.

Now however in my 5 year as coventry manager i get the dreaded, "array access out of bounds".

I would like to vent my frustrations towards SI;

Firstly, its all well and good adding patches to games, but how do game players without internet acces recieve these patches

Secondly, if i sent my copy of fm09 back to you guys at SI would you send me a refund?, because my local asda store will not refund my purchase.

I feel that you at Si are abusing the loyal fan base of your customer!

Cllr Jon-Paul Howarth

Im sorry to say but the game is working fine for me. I have received that error message from time to time and going on holidays usually sorts things. It has caused me to loose a few days of play but I save very regularly so nothing detramental.

If you look at all the fixes a number of them are compatibility issues and as such can not be tested completely unless you have machines with virtually every combination of hardware. How many companies would have the patch released to fix these issues on the official release date???? not many!!!

Bugs have always been part and parsel of the games, I was critical of them in the last installment but once they were fixed the game ran fine and fustration free bar the confidence problem ... which has been solved this time round to my knowledge.

As for the internet, you are on it now im assuming at work or an internet cafe, how about you buy a blank CD download it and burn the update. Problem solved.

I appreciate im coming across like a disapproving parent or something like that but this is the first post ive made in response to the negativity on the board surrounding the new game, Your just getting it in the neck. I mean when the demo was released people were ready to raid the parapits because of the injury issues .... it was the DEMO and fixed with this patch!!!!! Also since the patch was released I have experienced few issues of note and anything I have come across has already been reported on the bugs forum and so will be looked at for the next patch when it comes. Until then Im 8 years in with Derby and als going well!!!

With this array access out of bounds stuff (which I have been the victim of once and it destroyed my career game) is there no way of us finding out what is causing it? That way we might be able to edit the little offender just before the error kicks us out of the game.

I Have the internet, and have the latest patch, that is not my problem, i agree that patches are needed, and was not slating them!

I was saying that i am unhappy at the game crashing, i would much rather the game NOT crash, therefore was asking Si if due to the amount of unhappy customers would they be offering a refund for the game.

like for instance, virgin media did something along the same lines when it lost Sky one, sky Sports news.

Some PC gaming magazines often have patches available on disks, or at least they use to. And I'd imagine that few people who come on these forums realise there are many problems. I have a friend who never patched 08 and though it was brilliant, whilst I didn't realise there were problems with CM4 until visiting the CM forums, and that game was riddled with bugs.

I never knew FM needed a patch until I "explored" the FM05 disc and found it.

Up until then I was playing away, oblivious, and enjoying the game immensely.

Coming onto these forums for the release of FM09 has opened my eyes. Ignorance was bliss.

With this array access out of bounds stuff (which I have been the victim of once and it destroyed my career game) is there no way of us finding out what is causing it? That way we might be able to edit the little offender just before the error kicks us out of the game.

its likely to be deep set data issues that the games holding in memory. not necessarily something that is editable with a save game editor

All software requires patching - Not true

Windows....that requires "patching"

What is the Array access out of bounds? It comes up sometimes when a replay of the goal is shown in 3D. I don't watch 3d except for goal replays.

What is the Array access out of bounds? It comes up sometimes when a replay of the goal is shown in 3D. I don't watch 3d except for goal replays.

Array out of bounds is usually caused when your system is struggling with memory issues, generally it's because you are running out of memory. Ie you have loaded up too many leagues etc.

To help prevent this you can can increase your Virtual ram. Basically, this is space that the computer uses on your hard drive to act as ram.

To increase this you need to do the following (I only have access to and XP computer at the moment and not sure if it's the same on Vista. I will look later should anyone want help with Vista):

1) i) Right click on My Computer on your desktop and select properties. If you don't have this on your desktop see option ii)

ii) Click Start select Settings then Control Panel.

If you have Control Panel set to Category View, select Performance & Maintenance then double click the System icon

If you have Control Panel set to Classic View then double click the System icon.

2) Click the Advanced Tab

3) In the box titled Performance click Settings

4) Click the Advance Tab

5) In the box there is a heading for Virtual Memory. Click Change

6) Click in the circle saying Custom Size and increase the Initial Size and maximum size. I would give this as much as you can (around 2000 - 2gig, 5000 - 5gig at most). It will reduce the amount of space available to programs etc on your hard drive but it will enable your PC to run faster. It should actually reccommend an amount near the bottom of this screen; I would still give it more than that if you can.

7) Click Set, then OK. Click OK to the rest of the screens.

Hopefully this should help some of you with Array issues.

Array out of bounds is usually caused when your system is struggling with memory issues, generally it's because you are running out of memory. Ie you have loaded up too many leagues etc.

To help prevent this you can can increase your Virtual ram. Basically, this is space that the computer uses on your hard drive to act as ram.

To increase this you need to do the following (I only have access to and XP computer at the moment and not sure if it's the same on Vista. I will look later should anyone want help with Vista):

1) i) Right click on My Computer on your desktop and select properties. If you don't have this on your desktop see option ii)

ii) Click Start select Settings then Control Panel.

If you have Control Panel set to Category View, select Performance & Maintenance then double click the System icon

If you have Control Panel set to Classic View then double click the System icon.

2) Click the Advanced Tab

3) In the box titled Performance click Settings

4) Click the Advance Tab

5) In the box there is a heading for Virtual Memory. Click Change

6) Click in the circle saying Custom Size and increase the Initial Size and maximum size. I would give this as much as you can (around 2000 - 2gig, 5000 - 5gig at most). It will reduce the amount of space available to programs etc on your hard drive but it will enable your PC to run faster. It should actually reccommend an amount near the bottom of this screen; I would still give it more than that if you can.

7) Click Set, then OK. Click OK to the rest of the screens.

Hopefully this should help some of you with Array issues.

After all the Array Access Out of Bounds crashes that were in FM08, I've never seen that remedy before. When we were reporting them in the bugs forum, the SI Testers duly noted it down and fixed it - seems more of a coding thing than a user's virtual RAM issue.

Array out of bounds is usually caused when your system is struggling with memory issues, generally it's because you are running out of memory. Ie you have loaded up too many leagues etc.

To help prevent this you can can increase your Virtual ram. Basically, this is space that the computer uses on your hard drive to act as ram.

To increase this you need to do the following (I only have access to and XP computer at the moment and not sure if it's the same on Vista. I will look later should anyone want help with Vista):

1) i) Right click on My Computer on your desktop and select properties. If you don't have this on your desktop see option ii)

ii) Click Start select Settings then Control Panel.

If you have Control Panel set to Category View, select Performance & Maintenance then double click the System icon

If you have Control Panel set to Classic View then double click the System icon.

2) Click the Advanced Tab

3) In the box titled Performance click Settings

4) Click the Advance Tab

5) In the box there is a heading for Virtual Memory. Click Change

6) Click in the circle saying Custom Size and increase the Initial Size and maximum size. I would give this as much as you can (around 2000 - 2gig, 5000 - 5gig at most). It will reduce the amount of space available to programs etc on your hard drive but it will enable your PC to run faster. It should actually reccommend an amount near the bottom of this screen; I would still give it more than that if you can.

7) Click Set, then OK. Click OK to the rest of the screens.

Hopefully this should help some of you with Array issues.

Is there a max it can be set at without ruining the computer?

I have a lot of free space.

Is there a max it can be set at without ruining the computer?

I have a lot of free space.

Not really, but setting it very high won't help that much and may slow down your hard drive and therefore your computer. I would think that 5000 should be enough. Experiment with it. See if more does help, but I would think that 5000 should be more than enough to give you a boost with this game.

Yes, this "array access out of bounds" is quite scary. It's one of those errors that you just cannot afford. The game has crashed earlier, which has always been terrible, but it just seems that it has always been odd data corruptions incidents that cause the crash or a specific function that does it, where you can count on it the crash the game every time.

This crash seems to happen quite easily. Of course, I cannot really know, but I started a new game with three league and a team on holiday, just to test some stuff. I came back from the holiday at the start of the new season, went to fixtures, changed to the previous season, got the crash ... Hadn't saved, and the game had only been running for a few hours.

Of course, it's unreasonable for the topic creator to complain about not being able to patch the game, asking for it not to have to be patched. However, this problem happens with the initial patch, and I must say that if it happens a lot and SI don't fix it within a few months, it's quite a glaring problem in this release. However, it might be very uncommon for all I know, so I cannot complain, only worry. If it happens randomly, at least you don't have a total discontinuation of a long savegame by the game continually crashing at a specific point.

Edit: Just saw the posts above. Cannot possibly be a memory, with me only running three leagues for a short while off a fresh reboot, with 3 GB RAM (4GB, but I'm using XP).

I have patched the game. It hasn't caused me to lose my save game but its frustrating not been able to use the 3d particularly when I met the specs. I am currently adjusting the virt mem and also stopping some programs, which I thought were deleted months ago, from appering in the msconfig startup section.