So much for sorting the 4-2-4 issue.

In FM08, the opposition moving to 4-2-4 meant you dragged everyone back, slammed timewasting up to 11 and crossed your fingers.

So in this game, you do that, and lo and behold, they move to a 2-4-4 and shocker. Score within 20 seconds. Before you've had any chance to react.

I admit that it's only happened to me twice, but after the match by match routine of having to panic to deal with their 4-2-4 (when really, I should just as easily been overrunning them in midfield) I'll be very annoyed if there is another level of all out attack that is almost 100% effective.

I never did that in 08, all about keeping what had worked for me. I may click counter attack but I never went all out defence, what do you expect if you do that? I rarely, rarely conceded late and scored more than I did.

It happens less frequently in FM09 and most teams in real life go 4-2-4 when losing, it is basically shoving your wingers right up"

But in real life you don't get so many teams working, purely because the opposition can exploit the space. You see as many 3-1 as 2-2 from one side being 2-1 ahead.

robert, if I was ever a goal ahead and they went 4-2-4, they would immediately be all over me. for some reason my players would forget how to pass as well. I don't think I ever once held onto lead by sticking with what I had. And sometimes I'd have to play a 5-2-1-2 formation with a sweeper, two defensive midfielders and three attacking players just holding the ball up to grind down the clock!

That's crazy. I admit that there was more pressure, but one goal down with 10 mins to go that's what you expect. As I said, I never even change mentality, if I was playing attacking and winning, that's how I stayed. This game I have only played til January, conceded two goals in the last 5 mins, both from corners.

Never worked for me. I'd regularly lose one and two goal leads within minutes of the dreaded 4-2-4 coming in to play.

but I managed to hold on to those leads far more regularly with a more defensive formation.

Not got a clue how to counterract a 2-4-4, especially when my strikers appeared to have packed it in at that point.

Here are some ideas for you guys who are struggling with this.

What worked for me in '08 as a 4-2-4 killer was a fairly Defensive mentality, counter-attack ticked - but there were several other key changes:

- Deep defensive line

- Offsides Trap off

- Forward runs "Rarely" for all four of my back line

- Corner kick instruction "Stay Back" for all four of my back line

- Time wasting fairly high

- Hold Up Bal linstructions for all six of my forward players (in a 4-4-2).

Basically, the way the 4-2-4 was most effective against me was if my fullbacks "crept forward", letting their guys in behind them .. which would happen in my default tactic, which had the fullbacks on forward runs "Often" ... or after an attacking corner kick, as the AI might have left three guys at the centre stripe to my two defenders.

In '08, I'd switch to the 4-2-4-killer before the AI went to it, so I wouldn't get caught out - that meant typically around the 78th-80th minute - a bit earlier if I were really worried by the quality of the opposition.

One key piece of info, however, is - that defense was not an all-out "park the bus" defense - it included enough attacking options that I could start a match with it, especially a Cup tie against quality opposition, with a real chance of grinding out a 0-0 or even sneaking a 1-0 or 2-0 victory.

. . .

For offing the 2-4-4, it sounds like a similar approach might be useful:

- Deep defensive line

- Offsides trap off

- Forward runs "Rarely" for all four back line and both wingers

- Corner kick instruction "Stay Back" for four back-line players, and maybe two "Outside Area" from my midfield and wingers

It might also be worth switching to a 5-4-1 or 4-1-4-1, depending on your available subs and personnel; it should be easy enough to set up one such which works against both a 4-2-4 and a 2-4-4, or even the old attacking 2-3-5.

See the Tactics and Training Tips forum for more information and other approaches.