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View Full Version : Football Manager 2008 = Complete Disaster



Justme87
20-02-2008, 22:23
I'm sorry but the match engine is still absolutely ridiculous.

- The amount of goals being scored from long distances is wholly unrealistic.

- The vast number of goals being scored from corners is beyond the state of a joke.

-As for the general amount of goals during a season - quite sickening. No enjoyment constantly seeing matches with an average of 6+ goals. Do 0-0's exist in this shoody game anymore ?

Football Manager 2008 is widely renowned as a huge flop.

I don't even think SI are capable of creating a decent 8.0.3 patch, yet alone actually producing an 8.0.3 patch to finally make this game playable/enjoyable.

A lot of loyal customers feel extremely let down by this edition of FM.

Every effort should be made to fix the faults still remaining ASAP.

Only a successful 8.0.3 can save what little face you have left.

FM 08 = http://community.sigames.com/customicons/icon13.gif

Justme87
20-02-2008, 22:23
I'm sorry but the match engine is still absolutely ridiculous.

- The amount of goals being scored from long distances is wholly unrealistic.

- The vast number of goals being scored from corners is beyond the state of a joke.

-As for the general amount of goals during a season - quite sickening. No enjoyment constantly seeing matches with an average of 6+ goals. Do 0-0's exist in this shoody game anymore ?

Football Manager 2008 is widely renowned as a huge flop.

I don't even think SI are capable of creating a decent 8.0.3 patch, yet alone actually producing an 8.0.3 patch to finally make this game playable/enjoyable.

A lot of loyal customers feel extremely let down by this edition of FM.

Every effort should be made to fix the faults still remaining ASAP.

Only a successful 8.0.3 can save what little face you have left.

FM 08 = http://community.sigames.com/customicons/icon13.gif

phnompenhandy
20-02-2008, 22:36
It's Justyou, 87 http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Signe
20-02-2008, 22:56
Ridiculous post full of assumptions.

4457
20-02-2008, 23:18
You should've saved your time registering and writing the post. If you don't like it, don't play it. It was your decision to make the purchase after all.

jakobx
20-02-2008, 23:22
Well..the bugs he listed are real. SI just went from one extreme to another. Its slightly more enjoyable this way but its light years from a realistic looking match.

vasilli07
20-02-2008, 23:24
A successful 8.0.3? You definately mean fm09, right? http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Suttface
20-02-2008, 23:58
For goodness sake! I'm tired of ridiculous posts like this! FM 2008 has NEVER been unplayable. Yes there were some issues in the beginning but 8.0.2 has really sorted them. The only slight niggle is the board confidence (which can be iffy) but I certainly do not experience too many goals per game, 100s of goals from corners, Mother Teresa leading pitch invasions, Gandhi as Ass Man, etc. IT IS A GAME NOT THE CHANCE TO ACTUALLY MANAGE A REAL TEAM. I wish people would not clog up the forums with nonsense posts. Well done SI, another immensely enjoyable and addictive game, I look forward to FM 2009! http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://community.sigames.com/customicons/icon14.gif

skintsaint
21-02-2008, 00:01
and so commences another battle in the fanboy v disgruntled customer war.....

hehe :P

To be honest if I didnt read these forums I wouldnt know what bugs where about.

dingle_eater
21-02-2008, 00:09
I agree with skintsaint I rarely find any bugs to be apparent or effective on my games, the only thing that disapointed me was the finishing in 8.0.1, maybe in8.0.2 there is more goals maybe to many goals but its a game at the end of the day so its not gonna be easy to get it bang on. Before people moaned about the lack of goals and now its too many goals. I just find the game enjoyable nowadays when the wife allows me an hour on the laptop lol.
To say the games a complete disaster is way too far maybe its not as good as 07 and 06 or even 01/02 but the only way the game will improve in coming years is with good feedback from fans of the series, I have loved the series for years so there is no doubt I will give my feedback and not give up on such a great series of games.

chopper99
21-02-2008, 00:47
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justme87:
Football Manager 2008 is widely renowned as a huge flop. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Widely renowned? I can't even take any of your post seriously when you make such rediculous statements as this.

Considering the game's been number 1 in the PC charts for a good number of weeks it seems highly unlikely that it's widely renowned as a huge flop.

Or have you conducted an extensive survey to support this rediculous statement? If so please provide the results so I can actually consider taking anything you say seriously http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Chappers72
21-02-2008, 01:03
halfway through season 44 so i agree with you it rubbish

http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

sthptngomad76
21-02-2008, 01:09
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">To be honest if I didnt read these forums I wouldnt know what bugs where about. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed. I didn't realise many problems with CM4 tbh till i started on these forums :P

Justme87
21-02-2008, 01:09
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chopper99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justme87:
Football Manager 2008 is widely renowned as a huge flop. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Widely renowned? I can't even take any of your post seriously when you make such rediculous statements as this.

Considering the game's been number 1 in the PC charts for a good number of weeks it seems highly unlikely that it's widely renowned as a huge flop.

Or have you conducted an extensive survey to support this rediculous statement? If so please provide the results so I can actually consider taking anything you say seriously http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I also can't take you seriously due to your atrocious spelling and slight repetition.

As for FM being numero uno in the charts - That's no surprise considering the lack of competition. And the competition there is are equally poor(even worse, TBH).

Gone are the days when you can have a serious career in FM. The realism has evaporated.

It's pointless spending hours on training and tactics because the match engine is so unbalanced.

Also, what is it with possession ? - That is another issue within the game. Eg : You could win matches 5-0 and yet only have 40% possession.

drambuie2
21-02-2008, 01:10
Being top of a list because of sales based on past rep and because 'its better than the others' is hardly grounds for positive thinking though is it?

Suppose it all depends how you define 'most realistic' and 'critically acclaimed' - think the critics (if you include a lot of people who post on here) won't be acclaiming this one!

I really get the feeling they have tried to do too much and now the game is beyond fixing to a certain degree ... while it is only a game it does claim to be a realistic simulation. It appears every 'fix' creates more problems. Having to not use challenge gk is 'realistic'? Not being able to sell good players or even give them away 'realistic'? Not ground breakers but still problems.

I am still enjoying it to a large degree BUT there is no arguing that FM08 was a flawed release based on/compared to past glories. The sad thing is the games industry can and does get away with this sort of thing all the time and you have no real comeback as a purchaser.

http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

DaveRH
21-02-2008, 01:16
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by drambuie2:

I am still enjoying it to a large degree BUT there is no arguing that FM08 was a flawed release based on/compared to past glories. The sad thing is the games industry can and does get away with this sort of thing all the time and you have no real comeback as a purchaser. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It really depends on what you expect from the game. So many of the complaints (and let's face it - hysterical posts) are about peoples perception of the game as "unrealistic" - which is subjective anyway.

Perhaps if people started appreciated that they were playing a game rather than a 'perfect football simulator' and tried to enjoy the game on it's own merits they would be happier.

People being people though - it's not likely to happen any time soon.

butts
21-02-2008, 01:33
I don't like to get involved in these little arguements but ...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Football Manager 2008 is widely renowned as a huge flop. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

what a terrible statement. You could say that is because of past reputation bu the fact its still the no.1 best selling PC game at one of the biggests stores in britain says it all really. People that are still buying the game now have obviously had the option to read reviews and play the demo. You do raise some valid points although i personally haven't noticed the corners or the long-shots and only had slightly higher scoring game, but i know others have seen these much more extreme. You need to scrap all the assumptions and scrap making ridiculous statements then you will get more people replying constructively to your post.

homerjnick
21-02-2008, 01:35
17 goals in m last 5 games and 12 of those are from corners.

Unrealstic to say the least.

George Graham
21-02-2008, 02:10
What level are those having problems playing at?

I found that before I started a new game that at higher levels defending was very solid, and it was easier to build a rock solid formation than ever before.

But when I went back to lower league management in Sweden I found that this was very unbalanced.

As you would expect the technical standards of the players is poor across the board but where I think there is an issue is that defenders are absolutely woeful, whilst strikers and midfielders capitalise on any little error and even though they have simalarly poor attributes they cut through defences like butter with neat little one two and intricate passing moves.

This is blatently not right- and means that at lower levels the art of defending may as well be ignored unless you can get really good players in.

Its so unbalanced its not true imo.

George Graham
21-02-2008, 02:12
Oh and I see a goal scored from corners every single game at this level too.

And its not just the exploit either, its that bloody near post corner. Putting everyone on man-marking does help (as lets face it players on posts in FM do virtually nothing), but then for some reason that player at the near post is left totally unmarked with a player deciding to close down the corner taker for no reason- and you know its gonna be a goal.

chopper99
21-02-2008, 02:25
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justme87:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chopper99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justme87:
Football Manager 2008 is widely renowned as a huge flop. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Widely renowned? I can't even take any of your post seriously when you make such rediculous statements as this.

Considering the game's been number 1 in the PC charts for a good number of weeks it seems highly unlikely that it's widely renowned as a huge flop.

Or have you conducted an extensive survey to support this rediculous statement? If so please provide the results so I can actually consider taking anything you say seriously http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I also can't take you seriously due to your atrocious spelling and slight repetition.

As for FM being numero uno in the charts - That's no surprise considering the lack of competition. And the competition there is are equally poor(even worse, TBH).

Gone are the days when you can have a serious career in FM. The realism has evaporated.

It's pointless spending hours on training and tactics because the match engine is so unbalanced.

Also, what is it with possession ? - That is another issue within the game. Eg : You could win matches 5-0 and yet only have 40% possession. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you really want to be that pedantic and point out that I spelt ridiculous wrong twice then can you look back over your opening post and tell me what shoody means?

And I completely disagree that the days where you can have a serious carrer in FM are gone. I'm currently in 2020 with Gateshead (still on the 8.0.1 patch because I say no problems with it tbh) and I'm immensely enjoying it.

I do understand that some people are finding some areas of the game frustrating. Unfortunately you've made some daft statements which I can only assume are based on comments you've read on here rather than any actual facts.

And how can you say that FM has no competition in the PC charts? It may not have competition from other football manager sims but there are plenty of other quality PC games out there of different genres. The fact that FM is above all of those tells me it's still the most addictive and widely played PC game there is, which hardly supports you argument that it's 'a huge flop' or that 'a lot of loyal customers feel let down'.

If it's not enjoyable for you then fine. Either trade it and play something else or attempt to put forward some reasonable argument as to what you think need to be improved and how you think SI could improve it. Don't just make incorrect, generalised statements that immediately take away any credibility that your arguments may have had.

isuckatfm
21-02-2008, 02:25
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">originally posted by George Graham:-

I found that before I started a new game that at higher levels defending was very solid, and it was easier to build a rock solid formation than ever before.

But when I went back to lower league management in Sweden I found that this was very unbalanced.

As you would expect the technical standards of the players is poor across the board but where I think there is an issue is that defenders are absolutely woeful, whilst strikers and midfielders capitalise on any little error and even though they have simalarly poor attributes they cut through defences like butter with neat little one two and intricate passing moves.

This is blatently not right- and means that at lower levels the art of defending may as well be ignored unless you can get really good players in.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://community.sigames.com/customicons/icon14.gif

My opinion on it that in real life football setting up solidly and defending is easier than attacking and creating chances. It can take a moment of genius to unlock a sturdy defence but an average player who is physically matched with his opponent can do a pretty decent job defensively by sticking to his man tightly and getting in his face to nullify the threat. As George Graham says the balance seems to be the wrong way around at the moment.

I'm not saying that there is no art to defending and that any old schmuck can be Baresi, but it is alot easier to train/teach someone to position themselves better defensively than to turn them into an attacking force with the technique, vision and reading of the game to be a consistent attacking threat.

Nomis07
21-02-2008, 02:32
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by skintsaint:
To be honest if I didnt read these forums I wouldnt know what bugs where about. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly. I've been playing CM since 97/98 and have never been a big internet user, this is the first ever game i've patched. There have been bugs in previous games but i've been slightly oblivious to them and ignored any I did notice.

I think I only patched this one because I signed up to the forums, otherwise I would have probably ignored the patch again.

I'm currently still using 8.0.1, because I don't like 8.0.2 and I was achieving success with no serious problems in my 8.0.1 saves. I don't think 8.0.2 is seriously flawed I just don't like it and prefer 8.0.1.

tieio
21-02-2008, 02:35
I have seen the bugs, but I also feel they have been addressed rather well by 8.0.2
Ever since I got the new patch I have enjoyed this game tremendously, I do not see any of the stuff written in the first post, there are plenty of 0-0 games and I rarely see these long shot goals and there are a normal amount of corners scored in the many games I have played thus far.
Can't please everyone I suppose, there will always be nay sayers, I am just not one of them anymore, I like 8.0.2

Roman Bednar
21-02-2008, 02:41
1. It's playable

2. I've seen some bugs reported that I wouldn't even be aware of but that's because they in no way effect me at all and if it wasn't for this forum you wouldn't know about some

3. There's a number of other football management games out there so if you dislike FM that much go and try them

Ched
21-02-2008, 02:43
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justme87:
I'm sorry but the match engine is still absolutely ridiculous.

- The amount of goals being scored from long distances is wholly unrealistic.

- The vast number of goals being scored from corners is beyond the state of a joke.

-As for the general amount of goals during a season - quite sickening. No enjoyment constantly seeing matches with an average of 6+ goals. Do 0-0's exist in this shoody game anymore ?

Football Manager 2008 is widely renowned as a huge flop.

I don't even think SI are capable of creating a decent 8.0.3 patch, yet alone actually producing an 8.0.3 patch to finally make this game playable/enjoyable.

A lot of loyal customers feel extremely let down by this edition of FM.

Every effort should be made to fix the faults still remaining ASAP.

Only a successful 8.0.3 can save what little face you have left.

FM 08 = http://community.sigames.com/customicons/icon13.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

1 - goals conceded from long range are due to your tactics - easily fixed.

2 - goals scored from corners can be fixed with about 3 mouse clicks - stop moaning and just fix it ffs

3 - my team average 2.1 goals per game and 0.3 conceded per game - hardly unrealistic - again if the games are high scoring it is due to your tactics. 0-0s exist, you're tactics are just not defensive enough for them to happen.

As to your other post, regarding possession and tactics:

1/ possession is related solely to tactics - if your team only have 40% IT'S YOUR FAULT.

2/ Unbalanced match engine? Let's stop being daft, it works if your tactics are sound.

The survey done pre-8.0.2 showed that the MAJORITY of forum users liked the game - a post 8.0.2 survey would show numbers around the 80% mark for people who like the game (speculation but i'd put money behind it).

8.0.0 was a dismal effort - and was rightly moaned about.

8.0.1 was an improvement but many (including myself) felt it was still not enjoyable - although FAR MORE did think it was playable.

8.0.2 has improved dramatically - the only outstanding issue that has no work around is board confidence.

8.0.3 is not needed.

A typically uneducated moan, full of unsubstantiated assumptions. All of the problems you mentioned can be fixed - BY YOU.

Roman Bednar
21-02-2008, 02:44
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Football Manager 2008 is widely renowned as a huge flop. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">A lot of loyal customers feel extremely let down by this edition of FM. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

P.S That's ridiculous unless you back it up with evidence

robertodibaggio
21-02-2008, 02:45
I look at these posts sometimes and wonder if I have downloaded some magical patch from a parallel universe. I rarely see long shots go in. I maybe have had 5 in total through a season for my team and not many more against me. I maybe score 5-8 goals a season from corners which is perfectly realistic. I'll admit there are times when there seems to be a lot of goals scored but I also go through lean spells. I have had plenty of 0-0's. For me, the patch is superb, I know a lot of people don't like it but it is all about opinion.

TheFuzzyOne
21-02-2008, 02:50
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Suttface:
For goodness sake! I'm tired of ridiculous posts like this! FM 2008 has NEVER been unplayable. Yes there were some issues in the beginning but 8.0.2 has really sorted them. The only slight niggle is the board confidence (which can be iffy) but I certainly do not experience too many goals per game, 100s of goals from corners, Mother Teresa leading pitch invasions, Gandhi as Ass Man, etc. IT IS A GAME NOT THE CHANCE TO ACTUALLY MANAGE A REAL TEAM. I wish people would not clog up the forums with nonsense posts. Well done SI, another immensely enjoyable and addictive game, I look forward to FM 2009! http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://community.sigames.com/customicons/icon14.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

nice one mate http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
not that i'm a fanboy, but the thought of Gandhi saying:
'The board won't give us more money? Who cares about ultimatums? I'll sit here and go on a hunger strike!'

and the thought of mother theresa invading the pitch...LOL

nice work Suttface.

Hawshiels
21-02-2008, 02:56
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justme87:
I'm sorry but the match engine is still absolutely ridiculous.

- The amount of goals being scored from long distances is wholly unrealistic.

- The vast number of goals being scored from corners is beyond the state of a joke.

-As for the general amount of goals during a season - quite sickening. No enjoyment constantly seeing matches with an average of 6+ goals. Do 0-0's exist in this shoody game anymore ?

Football Manager 2008 is widely renowned as a huge flop.

I don't even think SI are capable of creating a decent 8.0.3 patch, yet alone actually producing an 8.0.3 patch to finally make this game playable/enjoyable.

A lot of loyal customers feel extremely let down by this edition of FM.

Every effort should be made to fix the faults still remaining ASAP.

Only a successful 8.0.3 can save what little face you have left.

FM 08 = http://community.sigames.com/customicons/icon13.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think a patch (e.g. 8.0.3) is going to solve YOUR problem. So, if you really feel this way about the game, please don't hesitate to e-mail me and I'll buy it from you for a reasonable price. http://community.sigames.com/customicons/icon14.gif Cheers

Justme87
21-02-2008, 04:04
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:


1 - goals conceded from long range are due to your tactics - easily fixed.

2 - goals scored from corners can be fixed with about 3 mouse clicks - stop moaning and just fix it ffs

3 - my team average 2.1 goals per game and 0.3 conceded per game - hardly unrealistic - again if the games are high scoring it is due to your tactics. 0-0s exist, you're tactics are just not defensive enough for them to happen.

As to your other post, regarding possession and tactics:

1/ possession is related solely to tactics - if your team only have 40% IT'S YOUR FAULT.

2/ Unbalanced match engine? Let's stop being daft, it works if your tactics are sound.

The survey done pre-8.0.2 showed that the MAJORITY of forum users liked the game - a post 8.0.2 survey would show numbers around the 80% mark for people who like the game (speculation but i'd put money behind it).

8.0.0 was a dismal effort - and was rightly moaned about.

8.0.1 was an improvement but many (including myself) felt it was still not enjoyable - although FAR MORE did think it was playable.

8.0.2 has improved dramatically - the only outstanding issue that has no work around is board confidence.

8.0.3 is not needed.

A typically uneducated moan, full of unsubstantiated assumptions. All of the problems you mentioned can be fixed - BY YOU. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, this old chestnut. It's your tactics.

It's my team that are scoring from 30 yards every other game from players with a single number long shots rating.(No I don't have them ordered to shoot)

It's my centre half that scores goals week in, week out from corners.

Why should I change my tactics to gain more possession win I win the majority of games anyway ?

I'm not having problems with success(Forest 7th in the Prem - near the end of my third season).

THE GAME IS SIMPLY UNREALISTIC. This can not be disputed.

The Lambs
21-02-2008, 04:08
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by skintsaint:

To be honest if I didn't read these forums I wouldn't know what bugs where about. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I concur with my learned colleague.

Edinton
21-02-2008, 04:24
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justme87:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:


1 - goals conceded from long range are due to your tactics - easily fixed.

2 - goals scored from corners can be fixed with about 3 mouse clicks - stop moaning and just fix it ffs

3 - my team average 2.1 goals per game and 0.3 conceded per game - hardly unrealistic - again if the games are high scoring it is due to your tactics. 0-0s exist, you're tactics are just not defensive enough for them to happen.

As to your other post, regarding possession and tactics:

1/ possession is related solely to tactics - if your team only have 40% IT'S YOUR FAULT.

2/ Unbalanced match engine? Let's stop being daft, it works if your tactics are sound.

The survey done pre-8.0.2 showed that the MAJORITY of forum users liked the game - a post 8.0.2 survey would show numbers around the 80% mark for people who like the game (speculation but i'd put money behind it).

8.0.0 was a dismal effort - and was rightly moaned about.

8.0.1 was an improvement but many (including myself) felt it was still not enjoyable - although FAR MORE did think it was playable.

8.0.2 has improved dramatically - the only outstanding issue that has no work around is board confidence.

8.0.3 is not needed.

A typically uneducated moan, full of unsubstantiated assumptions. All of the problems you mentioned can be fixed - BY YOU. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, this old chestnut. It's your tactics.

It's my team that are scoring from 30 yards every other game from players with a single number long shots rating.(No I don't have them ordered to shoot)

It's my centre half that scores goals week in, week out from corners.

Why should I change my tactics to gain more possession win I win the majority of games anyway ?

I'm not having problems with success(Forest 7th in the Prem - near the end of my third season).

THE GAME IS SIMPLY UNREALISTIC. This can not be disputed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well I'm afraid it might just be you. I rarely see 30 yard goals, or score from corners every game, or win 5-0 yet only have 40% of possession...

It's as realistic as you're going to get incidentally.

Fred_the_Red
21-02-2008, 04:42
AS a lower league manager the problems have been solved for me. Is the 0.2. patch bad for priemership teams?

Kriss
21-02-2008, 04:43
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Why should I change my tactics to gain more possession win I win the majority of games anyway ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


"Right lads, I want you to gain more possesion without doing anything different at all"

Don't know much about football do you? http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Sweeney-G
21-02-2008, 04:46
Totally agreed i thought the new installement of fm was perfect before i started reading these forums... now my mind is just corrupted looking for errors aaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Justme87
21-02-2008, 04:50
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kriss:


"Right lads, I want you to gain more possesion without doing anything different at all"

Don't know much about football do you? http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Listen, 100 points in the League One. Automatic promotion from the Championship. In a European spot in the Prem, but my team who have won most of the league matches very rarley have more possession than the opposition.

Surley this is unrealistic ?

What team will ever be successful without keeping the ball more ?

I can get over possession, but it's the crazy scorelines, constant long shot goals and corners being like penalties that infuriate me.

Nomis07
21-02-2008, 04:53
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justme87:
I can get over possession, but it's the crazy scorelines, constant long shot goals and corners being like penalties that infuriate me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It would appear, given this thread, that a lot of people have never witnessed these problms or have easily found workarounds, so does that not imply that it is maybe just something you're doing wrong?

It would also go some way in disproving your rather laughable "facts" in your opening post.

Kriss
21-02-2008, 04:56
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justme87:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kriss:


"Right lads, I want you to gain more possesion without doing anything different at all"

Don't know much about football do you? http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Listen, 100 points in the League One. Automatic promotion from the Championship. In a European spot in the Prem, but my team who have won most of the league matches very rarley have more possession than the opposition.

Surley this is unrealistic ?

What team will ever be successful without keeping the ball more ?

I can get over possession, but it's the crazy scorelines, constant long shot goals and corners being like penalties that infuriate me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I see you can write so why is it you are unable to read?
As has been explained ad nauseam, the corner bug is avoidable if you want to avoid it.
More people deny there too many goals than say there are too many.

Paul C has explained how you use logical tactics to gain mor possesion but the fact is that possesion is more often than not a sign that a team just cant find a way through.

Jibsa
21-02-2008, 05:00
I've finally had enough and deleted it from my PC last night.
Its far to random and I feel no control over engine. I cant control a thing here is why I have binned it.

ONE)After promotion to the Championship I was allocated 0 transfer funds. Finance "secure" The club sold 12000 more season tickets than previous pre season in Coca Cola Leaugue 1! You do the maths, result? No Spends. Playing against £3-4 million centre forwards with £40,000 Centre Halves is really mind numbingly boring and frustrating.

TWO) Despite above I've never been hammered and have tried to play counter attacking to get the odd goal back scored by the afore mentioned 4 million pound stikers. It is very very difficult to do that when the match engine has my pacey striker standing with chalk on his boots on the throw in line unmarked. Who's gonna mark him he's got another twenty yards to make up with the defender standing centre point to run in to AI goal if we do get it away. Cannot do a f****** thing about that.

THREE)A left back who's got 14 plus positioning concentration marking ect ect not marking not positioning himself and leaving the right winger unmarked because he's not concentrating! Supposed to be a good player as well cos my confidence has him a sound bit of business.

Four)The AI seems to enjoy referee favourability that Alex Ferguson would have a w*** over. Lost count and interest in the amount of times my lads have been stopped running into goal or on to long ball by previously booked AI defenders and DMF players. Once booked they could stick a knife in my attackers and still get "away with a warning" or just restart and line up for the free kick.

Five) The horrendous default skin which has lead me squinting at menus in restaurants. Gotta give it up before I have to get my eyes glazed.

chopper99
21-02-2008, 05:02
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nomis07:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justme87:
I can get over possession, but it's the crazy scorelines, constant long shot goals and corners being like penalties that infuriate me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It would appear, given this thread, that a lot of people have never witnessed these problms or have easily found workarounds, so does that not imply that it is maybe just something you're doing wrong?

It would also go some way in disproving your rather laughable "facts" in your opening post. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is what I was going to say but Nomis07 has said it better.

Many people are happily enjoying the game and it is only a minority who are complaining about certain things.

Also, there have been corner issues since FM06. In '06 you could have one player lurking outside the box and get him to score tons of goals from corners. In 07 you could score a load of near post corners.
In 08 they got rid of the near post corners but over-did it so that any header made at the near post went miles wide. People complained so they changed it. Now it seems there is again an easy way to score from corners.

The solution to the above issue has long been the same. If you don't like the 'cheat' corner routines, don't use them.

The same goes for number of goals and long shots. After 8.0.1 loads of people complained that there were too many chances saved by the keeper, and not enough long shots being scored. Now this has been adjusted and people are still complaining.

You can't please everyone but that's why we have choice. In this case you can choose to play another game if you don't like this one.

Justme87
21-02-2008, 05:10
Ways to help prevent this:

1) Play a high defensive line

2) Target the opposition midfielders with opposition specific instructions such as pressing, or even man mark them.

3) If you are outnumbered in central midfield, as a striker or wide man to man mark one of the midfielders concerned.

4) If you have a defensive midfielder, he may sit too deep and give them more space to do this. Push him into midfield or have him man mark one of them.

One or more of these steps may help.

Cheers,
Paul

1. What about then being caught high up the pitch and AI's notorious long balls from defence - opposition clean through on goal.

2. Valid.

3. A striker or a winger man marking ? Are you insane ? These players are your match winners, not there to stifle others.

4. Undecided.

chopper99
21-02-2008, 05:11
As for your possession problem:

Below is what Paul C said in another thread in reply to someone else who seemed to be suffering the same possession problems as you -

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PaulC:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Barnzy:
Its the problem where, me (as a big club like Liverpool for example) try playing a pressing possession game, I score and win but when I look at the game stats the opposition have about 70% possession and 2 of their players have basically knocked the ball between them with no view to going forward even though they are losing, while my players who are told to close down stand by and watch.

My enjoyment of the game doesnt really come from results but in style of play, this ruins my possession game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ways to help prevent this:

1) Play a high defensive line

2) Target the opposition midfielders with opposition specific instructions such as pressing, or even man mark them.

3) If you are outnumbered in central midfield, as a striker or wide man to man mark one of the midfielders concerned.

4) If you have a defensive midfielder, he may sit too deep and give them more space to do this. Push him into midfield or have him man mark one of them.

One or more of these steps may help.

Cheers,
Paul </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

chopper99
21-02-2008, 05:12
Ah, I see you've already read it.

Raware
21-02-2008, 05:14
People keep saying the corner bug is avoidable if you want it to be......maybe for offline games but not for online games. I don't care how honest a person says they are, if the option is there to exploit this issue then people are going to use it, then come back with an excuse of "i didn't set my CB on the GK".

chopper99
21-02-2008, 05:15
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justme87:
Ways to help prevent this:

1) Play a high defensive line

2) Target the opposition midfielders with opposition specific instructions such as pressing, or even man mark them.

3) If you are outnumbered in central midfield, as a striker or wide man to man mark one of the midfielders concerned.

4) If you have a defensive midfielder, he may sit too deep and give them more space to do this. Push him into midfield or have him man mark one of them.

One or more of these steps may help.

Cheers,
Paul

1. What about then being caught high up the pitch and AI's notorious long balls from defence - opposition clean through on goal.

2. Valid.

3. A striker or a winger man marking ? Are you insane ? These players are your match winners, not there to stifle others.

4. Undecided. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

1 - If you find this is a problem when you're using a high defensive line then give the offside trap a go. If it's still a problem then use one of the other 3 solutions provided.

3 - Man-marking a midfielder with one of your strikers or wingers will only come into effect when you lose the ball. Therefore it will make no difference to your attacking play and can be an effective way to increas your possession in midfield if that's something that's important to you.

Kriss
21-02-2008, 05:16
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jibsa:
I've finally had enough and deleted it from my PC last night.
Its far to random and I feel no control over engine. I cant control a thing here is why I have binned it.

ONE)After promotion to the Championship I was allocated 0 transfer funds. Finance "secure" The club sold 12000 more season tickets than previous pre season in Coca Cola Leaugue 1! You do the maths, result? No Spends. Playing against £3-4 million centre forwards with £40,000 Centre Halves is really mind numbingly boring and frustrating.

TWO) Despite above I've never been hammered and have tried to play counter attacking to get the odd goal back scored by the afore mentioned 4 million pound stikers. It is very very difficult to do that when the match engine has my pacey striker standing with chalk on his boots on the throw in line unmarked. Who's gonna mark him he's got another twenty yards to make up with the defender standing centre point to run in to AI goal if we do get it away. Cannot do a f****** thing about that.

THREE)A left back who's got 14 plus positioning concentration marking ect ect not marking not positioning himself and leaving the right winger unmarked because he's not concentrating! Supposed to be a good player as well cos my confidence has him a sound bit of business.

Four)The AI seems to enjoy referee favourability that Alex Ferguson would have a w*** over. Lost count and interest in the amount of times my lads have been stopped running into goal or on to long ball by previously booked AI defenders and DMF players. Once booked they could stick a knife in my attackers and still get "away with a warning" or just restart and line up for the free kick.

Five) The horrendous default skin which has lead me squinting at menus in restaurants. Gotta give it up before I have to get my eyes glazed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Make some kid happy before you leave, send your copy to a 14 year old who knows something about football.
Waste not, want not as they say http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Justme87
21-02-2008, 05:17
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Raware:
People keep saying the corner bug is avoidable if you want it to be......maybe for offline games but not for online games. I don't care how honest a person says they are, if the option is there to exploit this issue then people are going to use it, then come back with an excuse of "i didn't set my CB on the GK". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly. Even an offline, 1 player game - Let's say you are losing 1-0 in a cup final with time running out.

Are you telling me a manager won't take advantage of the corner opportunity ?

chopper99
21-02-2008, 05:18
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Raware:
People keep saying the corner bug is avoidable if you want it to be......maybe for offline games but not for online games. I don't care how honest a person says they are, if the option is there to exploit this issue then people are going to use it, then come back with an excuse of "i didn't set my CB on the GK". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unfortunately you can't trust people in on-line games not to use the editor or FMM either. Trust will always be an issue in on-line games and certain people will always use some kind of cheat to gain an advantage.

But I see your point. However, I'm not saying the coner thing is not a problem, just using that as one of the reasons to call the game a shambles is misguided imo.

Serdar
21-02-2008, 05:18
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justme87:
I'm sorry but the match engine is still absolutely ridiculous.

- The amount of goals being scored from long distances is wholly unrealistic.

- The vast number of goals being scored from corners is beyond the state of a joke.

-As for the general amount of goals during a season - quite sickening. No enjoyment constantly seeing matches with an average of 6+ goals. Do 0-0's exist in this shoody game anymore ?

Football Manager 2008 is widely renowned as a huge flop.

I don't even think SI are capable of creating a decent 8.0.3 patch, yet alone actually producing an 8.0.3 patch to finally make this game playable/enjoyable.

A lot of loyal customers feel extremely let down by this edition of FM.

Every effort should be made to fix the faults still remaining ASAP.

Only a successful 8.0.3 can save what little face you have left.

FM 08 = http://community.sigames.com/customicons/icon13.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

please, lets not be so offensive. this attitude does not help anyone and not to mention any official SI response to your point will happen less likely due to your temper. Not many can claim FM08 is perfect but we can approach with more constructive critics rather than calling it disaster http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

hogan23
21-02-2008, 05:19
totally agree that the match engine is crud now, 8.01 was fine..

Raware
21-02-2008, 05:23
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chopper99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Raware:
People keep saying the corner bug is avoidable if you want it to be......maybe for offline games but not for online games. I don't care how honest a person says they are, if the option is there to exploit this issue then people are going to use it, then come back with an excuse of "i didn't set my CB on the GK". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unfortunately you can't trust people in on-line games not to use the editor or FMM either. Trust will always be an issue in on-line games and certain people will always use some kind of cheat to gain an advantage.

But I see your point. However, I'm not saying the coner thing is not a problem, just using that as one of the reasons to call the game a shambles is misguided imo. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey Chopper, with reference to your point about people cheating with editors, for people to play online, everybody has to be on the same game i.e. 8.0.1, 8.0.2 etc. Anybody using an edited version of the game will be unable to play online with other people using a different 'incompatible' version.

Jibsa
21-02-2008, 05:25
I know more about real football sonnie than you'll ever. Go on, ask me a question.

chopper99
21-02-2008, 05:27
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Raware:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by chopper99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Raware:
People keep saying the corner bug is avoidable if you want it to be......maybe for offline games but not for online games. I don't care how honest a person says they are, if the option is there to exploit this issue then people are going to use it, then come back with an excuse of "i didn't set my CB on the GK". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unfortunately you can't trust people in on-line games not to use the editor or FMM either. Trust will always be an issue in on-line games and certain people will always use some kind of cheat to gain an advantage.

But I see your point. However, I'm not saying the coner thing is not a problem, just using that as one of the reasons to call the game a shambles is misguided imo. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey Chopper, with reference to your point about people cheating with editors, for people to play online, everybody has to be on the same game i.e. 8.0.1, 8.0.2 etc. Anybody using an edited version of the game will be unable to play online with other people using a different 'incompatible' version. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's a good point about the editor. I believe you can still use programs such as Genie scout (or it's current equivalent) and FM Modifier though.
So if you were the type to cheat you could quite easily use these programmes to find all the best players or alter part of your team.

Maviarab
21-02-2008, 05:27
I'd like to know how many of these moaners who keep using the word 'unrealistic' are actual real life football managers, as surely these are the only people in a position to use such a word?

Another lame post bringing up points that have been covered in a hundred different threads over the last few weeks. Obviously just an attention seeker.

Themistofelis
21-02-2008, 05:28
I will agree that the main problem of the game is this randomness , just reload and play a game for 10 times keep notices on the results and scores, it is a mess
.
I believe that not all gamers here want a simulation , i mean if EA put some more effort in FIFA manager series many of those gamers would probably post in another forum , no ?

From the developer's side i know it is hard to find a balance between fun and realism , i appreciate that they at least tried to fix things.

Since i mentioned EA i will give the NBA live series example; for PC players it is the only basketball simulation available and i am a huge fan of basketball , i bought all EA titles from 1996 to 2005 and they were all crap ( for sure fun but lacking realism + cheating AI ) and now i am not going to buy any NBA live game no matter how much i want to play a basketball game. Also i will only give SI one more chance in the fm09 edition just because their games are killing fun by trying to be realistic (ironic eh? but still true).

I am not going to tell anyone how to code his game but in general good team + good tactics = win 90% of the games , being good and lose/draw more than 10% is unforgivable to any gamer with minimal self respect ( i am not talking about fanboys they will love the game anyway , just referring to average , casual gamer).
Giving any "help" to AI (and i do mean any , like "blank" bank accounts , AI managers/ teams without scouts able to see CA/PA of players , teams getting results against you when you are clearly the dominant side etc) is also unforgivable for any casual gamer with self respect.

I don't know if fm08 is a huge success or a disaster , it just doesn't cover my gaming needs .

Raware
21-02-2008, 05:28
Although, with the corners issue being very irritating, i wouldn't go as far as to say the game is a shambles. I've been playing the game since day one, way back in 92, and am and always will be a true fan!

Ched
21-02-2008, 05:29
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justme87:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:


1 - goals conceded from long range are due to your tactics - easily fixed.

2 - goals scored from corners can be fixed with about 3 mouse clicks - stop moaning and just fix it ffs

3 - my team average 2.1 goals per game and 0.3 conceded per game - hardly unrealistic - again if the games are high scoring it is due to your tactics. 0-0s exist, you're tactics are just not defensive enough for them to happen.

As to your other post, regarding possession and tactics:

1/ possession is related solely to tactics - if your team only have 40% IT'S YOUR FAULT.

2/ Unbalanced match engine? Let's stop being daft, it works if your tactics are sound.

The survey done pre-8.0.2 showed that the MAJORITY of forum users liked the game - a post 8.0.2 survey would show numbers around the 80% mark for people who like the game (speculation but i'd put money behind it).

8.0.0 was a dismal effort - and was rightly moaned about.

8.0.1 was an improvement but many (including myself) felt it was still not enjoyable - although FAR MORE did think it was playable.

8.0.2 has improved dramatically - the only outstanding issue that has no work around is board confidence.

8.0.3 is not needed.

A typically uneducated moan, full of unsubstantiated assumptions. All of the problems you mentioned can be fixed - BY YOU. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, this old chestnut. It's your tactics.

It's my team that are scoring from 30 yards every other game from players with a single number long shots rating.(No I don't have them ordered to shoot)

It's my centre half that scores goals week in, week out from corners.

Why should I change my tactics to gain more possession win I win the majority of games anyway ?

I'm not having problems with success(Forest 7th in the Prem - near the end of my third season).

THE GAME IS SIMPLY UNREALISTIC. This can not be disputed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In that case it is even more simple:

if your team are scoring form 30 yards+ then set their mentality LOWER - and make any midfielders play through balls often.

The corners as i've said can be avoided easily.

Why are you complaining if you win games? I prefer to control games and hence control possession - if you concede possession too easily (as you suggest you do) then this will result in higher scoring games, as the op has more chances to get at your defence - THIS IS BASIC TACTICAL KNOWLEDGE.

This game is perfectly realistic if you approach tactics in a realistic manner.

The bottom line is, the problems you have mentioned ARE YOUR FAULT. Hence the old chestnut will keep coming out again and again because IT IS CORRECT.

The amount of tactical ignorance you are displaying is astonishing - i second Kriss' suggestion - give your game to someone who knows what they're talking about.

Ched
21-02-2008, 05:31
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justme87:
Ways to help prevent this:

1) Play a high defensive line

2) Target the opposition midfielders with opposition specific instructions such as pressing, or even man mark them.

3) If you are outnumbered in central midfield, as a striker or wide man to man mark one of the midfielders concerned.

4) If you have a defensive midfielder, he may sit too deep and give them more space to do this. Push him into midfield or have him man mark one of them.

One or more of these steps may help.

Cheers,
Paul

1. What about then being caught high up the pitch and AI's notorious long balls from defence - opposition clean through on goal.

2. Valid.

3. A striker or a winger man marking ? Are you insane ? These players are your match winners, not there to stifle others.

4. Undecided. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your point 3 has proven beyond all doubt that you don't know what you're talking about.

Liverpool vs West Ham, FA cup final a couple of years ago, my question to you - who did West Ham have marking alonso?

When you can answer this you may be able to figure out why you're tactical "knowledge" is flawed.

This is a football SIMULATION. Hence if you do not treat it as such, the scores and behaviours modelled will not be the same as IRL.

Ched
21-02-2008, 05:34
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Themistofelis:
I will agree that the main problem of the game is this randomness , just reload and play a game for 10 times keep notices on the results and scores, it is a mess
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Football itself is inherently random - if every team played each game 10 times IRL then the results would vary DRAMATICALLY.

As to your "Good team + good tactics + win 90% of games" - FM DOES DO THIS - if you aren't doing this with chelsea/arsenal/utd then IT IS YOUR TACTICS - fact.

chopper99
21-02-2008, 05:34
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jibsa:
I know more about real football sonnie than you'll ever. Go on, ask me a question. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This sounds like a question http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:
Liverpool vs West Ham, FA cup final a couple of years ago, my question to you - who did West Ham have marking alonso? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Justme87
21-02-2008, 05:36
What your saying is I should change my tactics.

But hang on a second, consecutive promotions. Fighting for Europe now.

Why would I want to change my system - It works.

Tactical ignorance ?

I've played football at a high level in my younger days. I understand the game.

But in this game tactics are academic. It's a glorfied FIFA manager.

You are deluded if you think all your 'tactical nous' is being represented in the match engine.

Justme87
21-02-2008, 05:38
FOR CHAD ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

THE TACTICAL GENIUS.

chopper99
21-02-2008, 05:41
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justme87:
Why would I want to change my system - It works.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's the point. It obviously doesn't work if you're seeing things that plenty of other people aren't seeing.

If your tactic works that well then why are you claiming all this annoying things are happening on the pitch, and why at the same time are twice as many people telling you it's not happening to them and therefore must be down to something you're doing?

Ched
21-02-2008, 05:42
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justme87:
What your saying is I should change my tactics.

But hang on a second, consecutive promotions. Fighting for Europe now.

Why would I want to change my system - It works.

Tactical ignorance ?

I've played football at a high level in my younger days. I understand the game.

But in this game tactics are academic. It's a glorfied FIFA manager.

You are deluded if you think all your 'tactical nous' is being represented in the match engine. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

*falls to floor laughing*

I take it the 87 in your username is a reference to your DOB? It may explain much.

"I've played football at a high level in my younger days. I understand the game." - have you ever coached/managed a side? This game is called "football manager" - not "youth level football player who wasn't good enough to get anywhere". The bottom line is managing is not the same as playing - the depth of your ignorance becomes more clear with your every post. As i said previously your comments regarding forwards marking proves you knwo little.

Read a TT&F thread and then question how this game handles tactics. The match engine represents exactly what tactics you want it to. If the tactics are flawed then the ME's reproduction of the tactics will be flawed.

I tire of this.

Raware
21-02-2008, 05:43
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jibsa:
I know more about real football sonnie than you'll ever. Go on, ask me a question. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The point of this statement/question is?

Ched
21-02-2008, 05:43
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justme87:
FOR CHAD ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

THE TACTICAL GENIUS. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bless.

Serdar
21-02-2008, 05:44
I start to think some people were more happy before CM04. Because they could not see how players move on the field, they could imagine it as they want but now we have hard evidence of each player movement things become more demanding.

I actually appreciate SI for creating such an engine so that people can make almost direct comparision with real football. Of course more depth they add more concern it raises among the people who expect better reflection of real life however I always remind myself this is a GAME in the end and it can do as much programmers could teach it. Sometimes it is not rational to make direct references to real game and blame FM for not providing similar outcome.

Jibsa
21-02-2008, 05:46
No one or they might have won it 2-1 in 90 minutes.
http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
centre mid then for the hammers was reo coker.

I know for sure it wasnt my left back

chopper99
21-02-2008, 05:47
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justme87:
FOR CHAD ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

THE TACTICAL GENIUS. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bless. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who's Chad?

Apparently he's good at tactics http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Justme87
21-02-2008, 05:48
Really, is there anything more puerile than a guy whose never kicked a ball in his life waffling on about tactics in an attempt to delude himself into believing that Football Manager is realistic.

Ched
21-02-2008, 05:48
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jibsa:
No one or they might have won it 2-1 in 90 minutes.
http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
centre mid then for the hammers was reo coker.

I know for sure it wasnt my left back </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dammit - misesd the point

Dean Ashton was amrking alonso - hence my reference to justmes point regarding forwards marking. Ashton did quite a good job aswell.

Ched
21-02-2008, 05:51
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justme87:
Really, is there anything more puerile than a guy whose never kicked a ball in his life waffling on about tactics in an attempt to delude himself into believing that Football Manager is realistic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who hasnt' kicked a ball may i ask? Is this yet another assumption based on no facts? TBH i fell that assuming managing is the same as playing kiddie football is vastly more puerile.

Notice how some people try and change the subject when they are proven wrong? Stick to answering my points rather than behaving like a 6 year old, and you may become a tactical genius aswell.

Justme87
21-02-2008, 05:52
HA HA.

An out and out centre forward man marking.

What next, a goalkeeper providing width ?

Game OVER Ched.

Antigol
21-02-2008, 05:53
Justme i agree with you 100%.

MAtch engine is RIDICULOUS.

Players only see the ball, right and left full back doesn't mark when the rival striker is in their positions.

Players only runs the rival player with ball from back.

My dmc man marking his AMC goes to press to midfield to any player and never mark the AMC (it happened to me in all matches i played after the 8.0.2. patch)

The problem is not the tactic, i don't care if i lose or if i win, but the match engine is RIDICULOUS.

I think the players did lose their intelligence in fm08.

I still playing fm2007 with 7.0.2. , for me, the best match engine in the fm saga.

Themistofelis
21-02-2008, 05:54
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:

Football itself is inherently random - if every team played each game 10 times IRL then the results would vary DRAMATICALLY.

As to your "Good team + good tactics + win 90% of games" - FM DOES DO THIS - if you aren't doing this with chelsea/arsenal/utd then IT IS YOUR TACTICS - fact. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure football does this but in fm08 case it is realism killing fun.
The fact that i do need to read a single line in tactics forum in order to win games despite the fact that i already dominate most of them but failing to win it is fun killing realism (because making/testing tactics is fun) . Do i need to beat the AI/match engine using it's flaws or try to set up my tactics using a clear football mentality? clear football mentality doesn't seem to work.

I hope that you see what i mean although my point was not to specify where the game loses points but to show that all the problems start from the mentality the game is approached by of both gamers and developers.

Ched
21-02-2008, 05:55
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justme87:
HA HA.

An out and out centre forward man marking.

What next, a goalkeeper providing width ?

Game OVER Ched. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't need to say anything more - you've proven everything we've been suggesting - you know nothing about how tactics work IRL, therefore the tactics you apply in game will not work like IRL.

When you grow up statements like the one you've just made will probably make you wince.

Raware
21-02-2008, 05:58
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Raware:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jibsa:
I know more about real football sonnie than you'll ever. Go on, ask me a question. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The point of this statement/question is? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, ignore this Jibsa. I thought this was directed at me, hence the response from me as i didn't have a clue what you was on about. Me not reading the thread properly.

Ched
21-02-2008, 05:59
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Themistofelis:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:

Football itself is inherently random - if every team played each game 10 times IRL then the results would vary DRAMATICALLY.

As to your "Good team + good tactics + win 90% of games" - FM DOES DO THIS - if you aren't doing this with chelsea/arsenal/utd then IT IS YOUR TACTICS - fact. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure football does this but in fm08 case it is realism killing fun.
The fact that i do need to read a single line in tactics forum in order to win games despite the fact that i already dominate most of them but failing to win it is fun killing realism (because making/testing tactics is fun) . Do i need to beat the AI/match engine using it's flaws or try to set up my tactics using a clear football mentality? clear football mentality doesn't seem to work.

I hope that you see what i mean although my point was not to specify where the game loses points but to show that all the problems start from the mentality the game is approached by of both gamers and developers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I get your point - and it is vastly more valid than those made by the OP.

I agree that the games progression towards a simulation is making it substantially less fun - unfortunately SI are dedicated to making a more realistic game - hence i can't see this changing anytime soon.

With regard to "clear football mentality" - it depends on what you are trying to achieve - i personally have my team playing exactly as i want them to, and just created the tactic using my own knowledge regarding real life football and a bit of tweaking once i'd created the initial tactic.

Justme87
21-02-2008, 05:59
I'll take a few leafs out of your book.

Might try :

Strikers being forced 40 yards back the pitch to man mark.

Goalkeepers over lapping full backs.

All your suggestions are absolutely hilarious.

You'd be a great FIFA Manager.

Jibsa
21-02-2008, 06:01
Oh well... least I know how to spell marking.
Were you in such a hysterical fan boy mood you couldnt wait to reply and lost all intelligence?

Cant see your point about forwards marking by the way. Have I said anything about "forwards marking"? It would be pretty pointless for me to play a counter attacking formula (or at least to ask "Random United to attempt one) if my centre forward is marking a player who may be in or around my penaly area when they have the ball.
http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gifUnless Justin Gatlin is a regen.

Ched
21-02-2008, 06:01
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justme87:
I'll take a few leafs out of your book.

Might try :

Strikers being forced 40 yards back the pitch to man mark.

Goalkeepers over lapping full backs.

All your suggestions are absolutely hilarious.

You'd be a great FIFA Manager. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please grow up - i thought half term was over?

Justme87
21-02-2008, 06:02
CHED'S PROFILE :Why did you join this forum?:

Mainly to try and make FM better...

Oh dear. You have been exposed badly now.

F-

Must try harder.

Justme87
21-02-2008, 06:05
Get out of that one, ROMMEL.

Ched
21-02-2008, 06:05
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jibsa:
Oh well... least I know how to spell marking.
Were you in such a hysterical fan boy mood you couldnt wait to reply and lost all intelligence?

Cant see your point about forwards marking by the way. Have I said anything about "forwards marking"? It would be pretty pointless for me to play a counter attacking formula (or at least to ask "Random United to attempt one) if my centre forward is marking a player who may be in or around my penaly area when they have the ball.
http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gifUnless Justin Gatlin is a regen. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fail to see your points here.

1/ i made a typo - OH DEAR GOD THE HUMANITY!

2/ in no way am i a fanboy - i have started nothing but critical threads with regard to FM - however my threads have some place in reality.

3/ My point regarding forwards marking was that it IS EMPLOYED IRL - it was only in response to justme's comment regarding how stupid an idea it was.

I also do not suggest that forwards marking is the solution for all tactics - i personally do not use it, however i do know how and when it could be used.

You know a discussion has evolved beyond all help when people start bitching about typos, i'll leave you and justme to play with each other.

DaveRH
21-02-2008, 06:07
I refer back to my comment earlier in the thread: It's a game not a simulation.

Just because peoples "real-life" opinions or experience don't necessarily fit into the game does not make the game bad - it merely highlights the players inability to suspend their "disbelief" (for want of a better term).

Draw an analogy with Counter-Strike, or Battlefield2, or the Witcher, or Sonic the Hedgehog. Overall FM does a reasonable job of representing a highly technical and complicated environment (in my opinion).

Accept the game on it's own terms. If you feel that improvements can be made then by all means suggest them - it's wanted as constructive feedback and criticism has always been the way forward in this series. Banging on about "I know better therefore this is crap and anyone who doesn't agree with me is a loser" won't get anyone anywhere.

Ched
21-02-2008, 06:07
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justme87:
CHED'S PROFILE :Why did you join this forum?:

Mainly to try and make FM better...

Oh dear. You have been exposed badly now.

F-

Must try harder. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Type the following into the search box:

Critique of board confidence

Critique of transfer mechansim

etc etc etc

I am very critical of the game - i do however know when something is my fault, and when something is the games fault - a destinction you fail to grasp.

chopper99
21-02-2008, 06:14
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:

Type the following into the search box:

Critique of board confidence

Critique of transfer mechansim

etc etc etc

I am very critical of the game - i do however know when something is my fault, and when something is the games fault - a destinction you fail to grasp. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I for one can second this. Ched has written some excellent threads, and while I'm sure there may have been times I haven't agreed with something he's written his threads have always been well thought out and constructive.

This one however is the exact opposite and your attitude is the main reason why very few people will take any concerns you have seriously.

neutral
21-02-2008, 06:15
Please try play Neverwinter Night 2 first, even their 3rd patch still have many bugs...

Nomis07
21-02-2008, 06:22
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justme87:
CHED'S PROFILE :Why did you join this forum?:

Mainly to try and make FM better...

Oh dear. You have been exposed badly now.

F-

Must try harder. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Does the age suggestion with the game of 3+ mean actual age or mental age? We may have solved your problem http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Jibsa
21-02-2008, 06:23
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Make some kid happy before you leave, send your copy to a 14 year old who knows something about football.
Waste not, want not as they say </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ched, My beef aint with you so I'll leave you alone if you do likewise. Beef is with the mods statement above. I wish they could write a defensive code for human players as good as they defend there declining product. Question,
Why was FM2005 (a game I excelled on and made hall of fame) and my first experience of manager sims priced at HMV £49.00.

Its new sell is £20-25.00. Still pricey for a DVD. Wheres the high salary gifted programmers gone I guess is my question. Ibisoft, Rockstar?

chopper99
21-02-2008, 06:30
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jibsa:

Ched, My beef aint with you so I'll leave you alone if you do likewise. Beef is with the mods statement above. I wish they could write a defensive code for human players as good as they defend there declining product. Question,
Why was FM2005 (a game I excelled on and made hall of fame) and my first experience of manager sims priced at HMV £49.00.

Its new sell is £20-25.00. Still pricey for a DVD. Wheres the high salary gifted programmers gone I guess is my question. Ibisoft, Rockstar? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

£20-£25.00 is an absolute bargain for a game that most people get a good years worth of play out of. And, having worked for a games company myself, the amount of work, effort and money that goes into making games definitely justifies their price tags imo. £20 for something a large group of people have spent a year developing is not a big ask to me.

And as for the quality of FM08 compared to '05. Have you actually gone back and played '05 recently? If you do I think you'll notice the massive gulf in class betwwen that one and the current version. Unfortunately expectations are so much higher now and people are very quick to moan and to look at previous version through rose tinted glasses.

Rustyc
21-02-2008, 06:32
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jibsa:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Make some kid happy before you leave, send your copy to a 14 year old who knows something about football.
Waste not, want not as they say </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ched, My beef aint with you so I'll leave you alone if you do likewise. Beef is with the mods statement above. I wish they could write a defensive code for human players as good as they defend there declining product. Question,
Why was FM2005 (a game I excelled on and made hall of fame) and my first experience of manager sims priced at HMV £49.00.

Its new sell is £20-25.00. Still pricey for a DVD. Wheres the high salary gifted programmers gone I guess is my question. Ibisoft, Rockstar? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

£49?? I paid £17.99 on a Play.com special order (for pre-ordering 6 months early). FM05 was an exceptional game, but got too easy.

Nomis07
21-02-2008, 06:32
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jibsa:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Make some kid happy before you leave, send your copy to a 14 year old who knows something about football.
Waste not, want not as they say </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ched, My beef aint with you so I'll leave you alone if you do likewise. Beef is with the mods statement above. I wish they could write a defensive code for human players as good as they defend there declining product. Question,
Why was FM2005 (a game I excelled on and made hall of fame) and my first experience of manager sims priced at HMV £49.00.

Its new sell is £20-25.00. Still pricey for a DVD. Wheres the high salary gifted programmers gone I guess is my question. Ibisoft, Rockstar? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The best ever CM/FM was CM01/02 and went on sale at £18.99, which was extremely cheap for a Computer game then or now.

I think your statement about excelling at 05 and making hall of fame proves my point that I raise on this forum time and time again. The people complaining are the people who want to take Southend to the CL final and win it 8-0 against Inter Milan and this is totally unrealistic yet you all call for extensive realism?!?

Luckz
21-02-2008, 06:38
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:
Why are you complaining if you win games? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

He is complaining because he finds the gameplay balance to be way off? Is he not entitled to?
This really sad thing about FM is that the playerbase almost seems worse than that of WoW.
It's almost as if this was a conversation along the lines of "I find it ridiculous that I get ten penalties awarded for my team per match; I don't want to win every match 12-0", and the reply was "don't play with any strikers and you won't score!". Do you people actually think about the drivel you reply or is this just some sort of bashing reflex?
I personally got into the series with CM0304 and played the sequels a substantial bit, but stopped around half a year ago after FM2007 just became too painful to play due to the fundamentally broken match engine. I really love all the other additions, feeder clubs and whatnot, but the match engine with all its millions of flaws (discussed sufficiently elsewhere) eventually took all the fun out of FM for me. Now if dingle_eater says that "maybe its not as good as 07", that should already be saying enough. However, we have all the heroes here who blame 'subjective impressions' and seem fully convinced that there's nothing at all wrong about FM. It takes just a few short clicks and some reading comprehension in the bugs forum to see things really fundamentally broken about FM08 being discussed - like the Turkish league, with its self-ruining clubs (this at least may be hotfixed this/next week?), broken U20 teams - 'ell, the rules concerning foreign players aren't even correctly implemented. A lot of this has been mentioned countless times but not addressed in any way. If you browse further, you can also read about how not even half of issues raised in other country-specific threads were addressed, some of them first reported long before FM2008 was released. But no, let's rather pretend all this was not the case! Death to the naysayers!

P.S.: The most entertaining (or should I say suicide-suggesting, for those who read it, having their last bits of hope in humanity vanquished for all time?) post here still is "he fact that FM is above all of those tells me it's still the most addictive and widely played PC game there is", though.

turn it upto 11
21-02-2008, 06:42
any edition before 2008 was far too easy, could manage to take somefrom conference to champions league final in about 10 seasons, this game is not perfect but its a stepping stone to better football manager sims.

Nomis07
21-02-2008, 06:46
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Luckz:
I personally got into the series with CM0304 and played the sequels a substantial bit, but stopped around half a year ago after FM2007 just became too painful to play due to the fundamentally broken match engine. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Where are you from, there was recently a poll on here about the best version ever and 07 was second behind 01/02.

You talk about the drivel pople are talking here but your remarks are like the ill thought out, cretinous rantings of an impetuous child.

Jibsa
21-02-2008, 06:48
Chopper you missed my point though it is quite discreet.
I'd be happy to pay £50.00 for a game that works and is fully programmable as FM2005 was.

Thats making my centre forward stand where I've programmed him to stand not talking to the linesman.

Thats programming, programming found in XBOX and PS3 games which I happily pay £50.00 for.

Games where a tap on the X button picks up a weapon or a tap on a square forces a shot away. hitting it twice makes it go along the deck, hitting it three times crosses to the far post ect ect. Thats why there 50 sovs.

£20.00 quid for a game seems cheap to me and suggests money hasnt been thrown at it by the developers. Hence why they dont ask us to pay much for it now. You gets what you pay for is my motto in life, that and you get nowt for free but could be construed as the same thing.

Ched
21-02-2008, 06:50
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nomis07:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Luckz:
I personally got into the series with CM0304 and played the sequels a substantial bit, but stopped around half a year ago after FM2007 just became too painful to play due to the fundamentally broken match engine. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Where are you from, there was recently a poll on here about the best version ever and 07 was second behind 01/02.

You talk about the drivel pople are talking here but your remarks are like the ill thought out, cretinous rantings of an impetuous child. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Took the words right out of my mouth.

neilb242
21-02-2008, 06:50
People keep talking about how easy or hard this game is. I found the balance was ok in previous versions. It gave part timeplayers/novices a fair chance while those who claimed to know all about football could make things harder for themselves by being the lowest team possible, or even take up one of the many challenges that others suggest, like only buy english players or only free transfers.

surely its better to appeal to the masses and let those who want a challenge to make it as hard as they like rather than making more people turn the game off in frustration?

The more realistic the game gets howver, the harder it will become.

Nomis07
21-02-2008, 06:50
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jibsa:
Chopper you missed my point though it is quite discreet.
I'd be happy to pay £50.00 for a game that works and is fully programmable as FM2005 was.

Thats making my centre forward stand where I've programmed him to stand not talking to the linesman.

Thats programming, programming found in XBOX and PS3 games which I happily pay £50.00 for.

Games where a tap on the X button picks up a weapon or a tap on a square forces a shot away. hitting it twice makes it go along the deck, hitting it three times crosses to the far post ect ect. Thats why there 50 sovs.

£20.00 quid for a game seems cheap to me and suggests money hasnt been thrown at it by the developers. Hence why they dont ask us to pay much for it now. You gets what you pay for is my motto in life, that and you get nowt for free but could be construed as the same thing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Um i'll say it again then. CM01/02 was £18.99 and is considered the best FM/CM ever and the games before it were equally well received and cost the same. Does that not make your point, um wrong?!

DaveRH
21-02-2008, 06:53
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Luckz:
Now if dingle_eater says that "maybe its not as good as 07", that should already be saying enough. However, we have all the heroes here who blame 'subjective impressions' and seem fully convinced that there's nothing at all wrong about FM. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your point is fair, but the tone of this thread was really set by the opening post and you could already see that it would degenerate into bickering. I'm surprised that it has stayed open to be honest.

You can draw a line between 'faults' (Turkey, broken competition etc) and 'subjective' ("This isn't real football", "I score too many corners" etc) complaints and the grey areas inbetween (is it a real bug or is it supposed to be like this) are where most of the contention comes from.

I do not think that anyone is saying that FM is the perfect game. There's scope for fixing / refining features and after that there will be more features for us all to complain/praise about.

I do think that criticism of the game or other people's opinions should be presented in a sensible manner. A lot of the arguments in this thread have not been.

neilb242
21-02-2008, 06:55
For £50 it would have to be a VERY good game.

The price tag as it is now is fair - most people who buy the game will play it for long periods even if they buy the new version each year.

When you last had a night out, how much did you spend? I would normally go through £20 - 30 without thinking, and thats for one night. FM kinda lasts a bit longer, no?

Ched
21-02-2008, 06:56
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jibsa:
Chopper you missed my point though it is quite discreet.
I'd be happy to pay £50.00 for a game that works and is fully programmable as FM2005 was.

Thats making my centre forward stand where I've programmed him to stand not talking to the linesman.

Thats programming, programming found in XBOX and PS3 games which I happily pay £50.00 for.

Games where a tap on the X button picks up a weapon or a tap on a square forces a shot away. hitting it twice makes it go along the deck, hitting it three times crosses to the far post ect ect. Thats why there 50 sovs.

£20.00 quid for a game seems cheap to me and suggests money hasnt been thrown at it by the developers. Hence why they dont ask us to pay much for it now. You gets what you pay for is my motto in life, that and you get nowt for free but could be construed as the same thing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

1/ console games cost more due to the fact developers have to pay the console makers before they can release software for that console.

2/ charging £50 for FM (when its competition costs £30) would be suicide - i agree with you that i would be willing to pay more, as the game lasts FAR longer than any other, however it just isn't commercially viable.

Nomis07
21-02-2008, 06:59
The point re money spent by punters on the game is easily destroyed when we all say together;

Fifa and CM cost more but are atrocious!

safc4eva
21-02-2008, 07:08
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jibsa:
I know more about real football sonnie than you'll ever. Go on, ask me a question. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Alright, on which date was football created? Should be easy.

sacripante
21-02-2008, 07:11
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by isuckatfm:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">originally posted by George Graham:-

I found that before I started a new game that at higher levels defending was very solid, and it was easier to build a rock solid formation than ever before.

But when I went back to lower league management in Sweden I found that this was very unbalanced.

As you would expect the technical standards of the players is poor across the board but where I think there is an issue is that defenders are absolutely woeful, whilst strikers and midfielders capitalise on any little error and even though they have simalarly poor attributes they cut through defences like butter with neat little one two and intricate passing moves.

This is blatently not right- and means that at lower levels the art of defending may as well be ignored unless you can get really good players in.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://community.sigames.com/customicons/icon14.gif

My opinion on it that in real life football setting up solidly and defending is easier than attacking and creating chances. It can take a moment of genius to unlock a sturdy defence but an average player who is physically matched with his opponent can do a pretty decent job defensively by sticking to his man tightly and getting in his face to nullify the threat. As George Graham says the balance seems to be the wrong way around at the moment.

I'm not saying that there is no art to defending and that any old schmuck can be Baresi, but it is alot easier to train/teach someone to position themselves better defensively than to turn them into an attacking force with the technique, vision and reading of the game to be a consistent attacking threat. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Absolutely agree. I think its the real issue with this match engine, or better with FM08.
I told something similar in other post, days ago, and imo the attacking / defending abilities should be "tuned", because defending is ACTUALLY much easier than attacking.

hogan23
21-02-2008, 07:12
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Maviarab:
I'd like to know how many of these moaners who keep using the word 'unrealistic' are actual real life football managers, as surely these are the only people in a position to use such a word?

Another lame post bringing up points that have been covered in a hundred different threads over the last few weeks. Obviously just an attention seeker. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

on the other hand how can people say its realistic if like you say there not real football managers

hogan23
21-02-2008, 07:20
so lets work this out: -

Corners are nearly always converted(proven by screenshots of defenders with 30+ for a season)

Average strikers are turning into immence strikers who virtually never fluff up a finish

Midfielders shooting outside the box seem to always put the ball in the net

gone from close matches to 10 goal thrillers!!

BUT everything seems fine with the new patch..YEA RIGHT

So for people who are defending the new patch. You dont see the rise in goals per match and a hell of a lot 1 vs 1s are finished with ease..

Nomis07
21-02-2008, 07:29
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hogan23:
so lets work this out: -

Corners are nearly always converted(proven by screenshots of defenders with 30+ for a season)

Average strikers are turning into immence strikers who virtually never fluff up a finish

Midfielders shooting outside the box seem to always put the ball in the net

gone from close matches to 10 goal thrillers!!

BUT everything seems fine with the new patch..YEA RIGHT

So for people who are defending the new patch. You dont see the rise in goals per match and a hell of a lot 1 vs 1s are finished with ease.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yet another rubbish, wide sweeping statement which doesn't have any purpose or actually draw on any of the points raised.

No-one is saying that the patch is fine or perfect, even though many of the points you attemopt to raise I have niot experienced. Our point is that stupid threads labelling the game as a disaster are wrong.

FYI yes there are problems so please untwist your knickers and yes people have a right to feel aggrieved about certain aspects but a disaster the game is not!

George Graham
21-02-2008, 07:31
Well 8.02 hasnt been a disaster anyway.

If 8.02 had been 8.01, and 8.01 was 8.00 then I dont think we would be getting threads.

So whereas I dont think SI should have been saying after 8.01 that it was there best release yet I do think 8.02 is looking to be up there with the best.

Hopefully SI and Sega will learn from this release and realise that whilst 8.01 wouldve been an acceptible boxed copy that the gap between 8.00 and 8.02 via 8.01 was a questionable move in terms of the games standing and quality regardless of any business or financial decisions regarding the release.

Jibsa
21-02-2008, 07:33
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">quote:
Originally posted by Jibsa:
I know more about real football sonnie than you'll ever. Go on, ask me a question.


Alright, on which date was football created? Should be easy </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Number one I wasnt asking you to ask me a question this isnt fifteen to one. I suspect the mod must be looking through his back issues of Rothmans cos he aint got back to me yet.
Number two I never answer questions posed by mackems. No offence but I'm from up the road, the clean cultured bit.

Starr_Man5
21-02-2008, 07:37
Justme87, hello, in case you don't know, I myself am a Tactical Genius (Just ask chopper99 - he'll agree), if you're looking some help with the game (as you've clearly lost heart) I'll gladly be of service.

http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

chopper99
21-02-2008, 07:39
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Starr_Man5:
Justme87, hello, in case you don't know, I myself am a Tactical Genius (Just ask chopper99 - he'll agree), if you're looking some help with the game (as you've clearly lost heart) I'll gladly be of service.

http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh dear, you'll have no problem with scoring too many goals if you take up Starr_Man's offer of advice. You'll be back here in a flash saying you can't score at all http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

DaveRH
21-02-2008, 07:42
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by George Graham:
Well 8.02 hasnt been a disaster anyway.

If 8.02 had been 8.01, and 8.01 was 8.00 then I dont think we would be getting threads.

So whereas I dont think SI should have been saying after 8.01 that it was there best release yet I do think 8.02 is looking to be up there with the best.

Hopefully SI and Sega will learn from this release and realise that whilst 8.01 wouldve been an acceptible boxed copy that the gap between 8.00 and 8.02 via 8.01 was a questionable move in terms of the games standing and quality regardless of any business or financial decisions regarding the release. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd agree with every bit of this except the "not getting threads bit". Threads like this appear after every release and every patch!

Assuming that 8.0.2 is pretty much the "intended" release of FM08, then I'd suggest that the planned development this year has been overly ambitious.

I appreciate that the game has to develop in order to persuade people to shell out their hard earned cash but perhaps the development should be concentrated in smaller areas rather than sweeping (but relatively minor) new features.

KTTdestroyer
21-02-2008, 07:46
Question to OP; are you sure you have installed the 8.0.2 patch? It maked the game (from a disaster 8.0.0) a great one for me.

George Graham
21-02-2008, 07:51
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DaveRH:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by George Graham:
Well 8.02 hasnt been a disaster anyway.

If 8.02 had been 8.01, and 8.01 was 8.00 then I dont think we would be getting threads.

So whereas I dont think SI should have been saying after 8.01 that it was there best release yet I do think 8.02 is looking to be up there with the best.

Hopefully SI and Sega will learn from this release and realise that whilst 8.01 wouldve been an acceptible boxed copy that the gap between 8.00 and 8.02 via 8.01 was a questionable move in terms of the games standing and quality regardless of any business or financial decisions regarding the release. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd agree with every bit of this except the "not getting threads bit". Threads like this appear after every release and every patch!

Assuming that 8.0.2 is pretty much the "intended" release of FM08, then I'd suggest that the planned development this year has been overly ambitious.

I appreciate that the game has to develop in order to persuade people to shell out their hard earned cash but perhaps the development should be concentrated in smaller areas rather than sweeping (but relatively minor) new features. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Absolutely agree about focusing on specific areas, as have felt for sometime that new features are paperthin and never as developed or realised as they could/should be- although I suspect that they will never be able to completely do this as a single new feature will never look good on the pack, so is a marketing mans nightmare.

hogan23
21-02-2008, 08:01
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nomis07:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hogan23:
so lets work this out: -

Corners are nearly always converted(proven by screenshots of defenders with 30+ for a season)

Average strikers are turning into immence strikers who virtually never fluff up a finish

Midfielders shooting outside the box seem to always put the ball in the net

gone from close matches to 10 goal thrillers!!

BUT everything seems fine with the new patch..YEA RIGHT

So for people who are defending the new patch. You dont see the rise in goals per match and a hell of a lot 1 vs 1s are finished with ease.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yet another rubbish, wide sweeping statement which doesn't have any purpose or actually draw on any of the points raised.

No-one is saying that the patch is fine or perfect, even though many of the points you attemopt to raise I have niot experienced. Our point is that stupid threads labelling the game as a disaster are wrong.

FYI yes there are problems so please untwist your knickers and yes people have a right to feel aggrieved about certain aspects but a disaster the game is not! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

rubbish??why cause im saying it like it is, i listed what i did as ive noticed them in the new patch, whats wrong with that..and did i say the game was a disaster, i love this game, i just think certain things have been tweaked too much for those who were moaning in the first place..thankyou and good night!!

cooLLedge
21-02-2008, 08:08
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justme87:
I'm sorry but the match engine is still absolutely ridiculous.

- The amount of goals being scored from long distances is wholly unrealistic.

- The vast number of goals being scored from corners is beyond the state of a joke.

-As for the general amount of goals during a season - quite sickening. No enjoyment constantly seeing matches with an average of 6+ goals. Do 0-0's exist in this shoody game anymore ?

Football Manager 2008 is widely renowned as a huge flop.

I don't even think SI are capable of creating a decent 8.0.3 patch, yet alone actually producing an 8.0.3 patch to finally make this game playable/enjoyable.

A lot of loyal customers feel extremely let down by this edition of FM.

Every effort should be made to fix the faults still remaining ASAP.

Only a successful 8.0.3 can save what little face you have left.

FM 08 = http://community.sigames.com/customicons/icon13.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

the majority of people who play fm08 love it. the rankings fm08 is higher than any other game and its becoz its the best game out at the moment in my opinion... i prefer fm08 over any other game and considering i played CSS for 7 years and its even copsed meof css... i love the game, your entitled to your opinion but until you create better, you really cant moan http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Nomis07
21-02-2008, 08:11
To Hogan23

I don't think you actually even understood my previous post so i'll make it easier for you.

You're wrong.

Enjoy your evening.

George Graham
21-02-2008, 08:12
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hogan23:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nomis07:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hogan23:
so lets work this out: -

Corners are nearly always converted(proven by screenshots of defenders with 30+ for a season)

Average strikers are turning into immence strikers who virtually never fluff up a finish

Midfielders shooting outside the box seem to always put the ball in the net

gone from close matches to 10 goal thrillers!!

BUT everything seems fine with the new patch..YEA RIGHT

So for people who are defending the new patch. You dont see the rise in goals per match and a hell of a lot 1 vs 1s are finished with ease.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yet another rubbish, wide sweeping statement which doesn't have any purpose or actually draw on any of the points raised.

No-one is saying that the patch is fine or perfect, even though many of the points you attemopt to raise I have niot experienced. Our point is that stupid threads labelling the game as a disaster are wrong.

FYI yes there are problems so please untwist your knickers and yes people have a right to feel aggrieved about certain aspects but a disaster the game is not! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

rubbish??why cause im saying it like it is, i listed what i did as ive noticed them in the new patch, whats wrong with that..and did i say the game was a disaster, i love this game, i just think certain things have been tweaked too much for those who were moaning in the first place..thankyou and good night!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The thing is apart from the corners, I think peoples issue are more to do with failing to adapt to version that is very, very different from the previous versions of FM08.

I think this is especially the case because to succeed in 8.00 and 8.01 many had to use unrealistic or workaround tactics to succeed. Considering this its only natural that a fixed version of the ME would break these tactics.

Ched
21-02-2008, 08:21
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nomis07:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hogan23:
so lets work this out: -

Corners are nearly always converted(proven by screenshots of defenders with 30+ for a season)

Average strikers are turning into immence strikers who virtually never fluff up a finish

Midfielders shooting outside the box seem to always put the ball in the net

gone from close matches to 10 goal thrillers!!

BUT everything seems fine with the new patch..YEA RIGHT

So for people who are defending the new patch. You dont see the rise in goals per match and a hell of a lot 1 vs 1s are finished with ease.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yet another rubbish, wide sweeping statement which doesn't have any purpose or actually draw on any of the points raised.

No-one is saying that the patch is fine or perfect, even though many of the points you attemopt to raise I have niot experienced. Our point is that stupid threads labelling the game as a disaster are wrong.

FYI yes there are problems so please untwist your knickers and yes people have a right to feel aggrieved about certain aspects but a disaster the game is not! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perfect response, all the problems listed here are either:

a) easily avoidable - e.g. corners

or

b) tactics related - which i personally would class as easily avoidable, but i appreciate that some people have less spare time, however, the problems listed in this thread are not in any way, shape or form major.

tomtuck01
21-02-2008, 08:30
Just look when the original poster joined the forum;

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Justme87
Amateur
Registered: 21 February 2008 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Surely not another fanboy on our hands?

Barnzy
21-02-2008, 08:30
Ched you are talking nonsense, when it comes to corners being easily avoidable. I never touch my corner setting yet am scoring a stupid amount of goals. Are you saying I should tinker with my corner tactics to avoid scoring goals?

yankee_ram
21-02-2008, 08:32
For what this Yanks thoughts are worth, I am disappointed with this version but its not unplayable. I think the corner issue should have been fixed and the Defoe and Turkish issue should have never been an issue in the first place. I still think 07 was a better version but I will by 09 like I did 08. I can only hope the board confidence problem is fixed in 09 and the team talks are revamped as well.

Barnzy
21-02-2008, 08:33
Unplayable is a point of view.

tomtuck01
21-02-2008, 08:34
"Unplayable" is a wrong point of view.

Ched
21-02-2008, 09:32
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Barnzy:
Ched you are talking nonsense, when it comes to corners being easily avoidable. I never touch my corner setting yet am scoring a stupid amount of goals. Are you saying I should tinker with my corner tactics to avoid scoring goals? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, that is exactly what i'm saying.

You have effectively 3 options:

1/ leave it as it is and score a silly amount of corners.

2/ moan and hope SI issue another patch (very unlikely based on official SI responses)

3/ remove any player from "challenge GK" and presto, problem solved.

It's not ideal, but i'd rather SI put the time into making FM09 rather than make a patch for something that can be avoided with fewer than a half dozens clicks of a mouse.

Ched
21-02-2008, 09:33
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Barnzy:
Ched you are talking nonsense, when it comes to corners being easily avoidable. I never touch my corner setting yet am scoring a stupid amount of goals. Are you saying I should tinker with my corner tactics to avoid scoring goals? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, that is exactly what i'm saying.

You have effectively 3 options:

1/ leave it as it is and score a silly amount of corners.

2/ moan and hope SI issue another patch (very unlikely based on official SI responses)

3/ remove any player from "challenge GK" and presto, problem solved.

It's not ideal, but i'd rather SI put the time into making FM09 rather than make a patch for something that can be avoided with fewer than a half dozens clicks of a mouse. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I meant to add that i fail to see at what point i started "talking nonesense".

hammersjj
21-02-2008, 10:08
'It's your tactics' raises it's head again, I have enjoyed the game as I have the previous versions, but this is a bit of a cop out.

'The most realistic football management simulation' not my opinion but the words on the box. Assuming tactics play a part in football management then 'It's your tactics' may be the reason for a lot of this but it shouldn't be. Surely the game should be able to cope if we tell a player to challenge the GK from a corner or do whatever it is that causes the high scores.

At the moment SI seem to be lurching from problem to problem when they make any changes and being told that the problems go away if only you play the game in a certain way, while not at all nonesense, is a little annoying.

lawd
21-02-2008, 10:24
Must say that I am enjoying 08 now that the new patch is out. I was at my wits end at seeing my superstar striker miss 6+ 1 on 1's against some poor keeper but I think this has been resolved, the only issues I have is the board confidence and how it can still be a tad frustrating when trying to offload a player, and the media interaction is starting to get monotonous.

It isn't a FM07 which i thought was excellent but it's still good.

Barnzy
21-02-2008, 11:00
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Barnzy:
Ched you are talking nonsense, when it comes to corners being easily avoidable. I never touch my corner setting yet am scoring a stupid amount of goals. Are you saying I should tinker with my corner tactics to avoid scoring goals? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, that is exactly what i'm saying.

You have effectively 3 options:

1/ leave it as it is and score a silly amount of corners.

2/ moan and hope SI issue another patch (very unlikely based on official SI responses)

3/ remove any player from "challenge GK" and presto, problem solved.

It's not ideal, but i'd rather SI put the time into making FM09 rather than make a patch for something that can be avoided with fewer than a half dozens clicks of a mouse. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I meant to add that i fail to see at what point i started "talking nonesense". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The point about corners and tinkering to"avoid" scoring goals is a joke. Not only do I have to tinker to find a tactic that is moderatly successful but I also have to tinker so I dont score to many goals from corners.

sebsy
21-02-2008, 11:06
Agree with Barnzy, I find it absolutely pathetic that SI refuse to fix something so big.

If all the people who buy M every year had half a brain, they would not buy FM09, then SI might realise that they need to have their games actually work properly 6 months after release.

We accept that the boxed version will never be perfect but 6 months after the game really shouldn't have such ridiculous things in it like this corner bug and then have the nerve to come on here and tell us not to use a tactic that exploits a game engine flaw even though it's a recognised and highly used tactic in real life, thus defeating the idea that the game realistically mirror real life.

Some of the stupid comments from SI recently have been frankly laughable and if they don't do something to fix the corner problem then they will have lost any remaining semblance of credibility tbh.

Silverx
21-02-2008, 11:08
I have to implement workarounds that wouldn't need to be implemented irl to get anything approaching realistic possession when I hammer teams by 4-5 goals?

What bit of that isn't massively flawed?

Just because things can be workarounded (which isn't a word I know), doesn't make the flaws in the match engine any more acceptable really.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
3/ remove any player from "challenge GK" and presto, problem solved. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So we remove a legitimate tactic from rl because the FM match engine can't cope? Papering over the cracks.

GrahamPoll\'sPants
21-02-2008, 13:14
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:
if your team are scoring form 30 yards+ then set their mentality LOWER - and make any midfielders play through balls often.

...

The bottom line is, the problems you have mentioned ARE YOUR FAULT. Hence the old chestnut will keep coming out again and again because IT IS CORRECT. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, it's not correct. The function of the long-shot mentality slider is to control the amount of shots your players attempt from long range, not to cover over an imbalance in the ME where too high a percentage of long-shots are finding the net . That's not to say that adjusting certain tactics can't help address these problems - because they can - but there's a clear distinction between that and implying the problems themselves are the thread starter's fault and purely the result of flawed tactics, which is what you did.

GrahamPoll\'sPants
21-02-2008, 13:22
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tomtuck01:
"Unplayable" is a wrong point of view. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>When people use the term "unplayable" in this context, they don't mean that the game is literally unplayable. Like, it won't load or something. Any given bug could be so frustrating for a player that it reduces their enjoyment to the point where they find the game is no longer worth playing, i.e. unplayable. At least, that's what I presume people mean when they say this.

safc4eva
21-02-2008, 13:57
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jibsa:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">quote:
Originally posted by Jibsa:
I know more about real football sonnie than you'll ever. Go on, ask me a question.


Alright, on which date was football created? Should be easy </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Number one I wasnt asking you to ask me a question this isnt fifteen to one. I suspect the mod must be looking through his back issues of Rothmans cos he aint got back to me yet.
Number two I never answer questions posed by mackems. No offence but I'm from up the road, the clean cultured bit. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You just have.

Ched
21-02-2008, 14:51
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Barnzy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Barnzy:
Ched you are talking nonsense, when it comes to corners being easily avoidable. I never touch my corner setting yet am scoring a stupid amount of goals. Are you saying I should tinker with my corner tactics to avoid scoring goals? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, that is exactly what i'm saying.

You have effectively 3 options:

1/ leave it as it is and score a silly amount of corners.

2/ moan and hope SI issue another patch (very unlikely based on official SI responses)

3/ remove any player from "challenge GK" and presto, problem solved.

It's not ideal, but i'd rather SI put the time into making FM09 rather than make a patch for something that can be avoided with fewer than a half dozens clicks of a mouse. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I meant to add that i fail to see at what point i started "talking nonesense". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The point about corners and tinkering to"avoid" scoring goals is a joke. Not only do I have to tinker to find a tactic that is moderatly successful but I also have to tinker so I dont score to many goals from corners. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

well joke or not, it's what you have to do - either fix it yourself or stop bloody moaning. If it bothers you so much, create a thread in the bugs forum and provide pkms or save games.

Ched
21-02-2008, 14:55
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GrahamPoll'sPants:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:
if your team are scoring form 30 yards+ then set their mentality LOWER - and make any midfielders play through balls often.

...

The bottom line is, the problems you have mentioned ARE YOUR FAULT. Hence the old chestnut will keep coming out again and again because IT IS CORRECT. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, it's not correct. The function of the long-shot mentality slider is to control the amount of shots your players attempt from long range, not to cover over an imbalance in the ME where too high a percentage of long-shots are finding the net . That's not to say that adjusting certain tactics can't help address these problems - because they can - but there's a clear distinction between that and implying the problems themselves are the thread starter's fault and purely the result of flawed tactics, which is what you did. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Long shot slider controls how often a player looks for an opportunity to play along shot - mentality plays it's part for the following reason - if a player has a defensive mentality - he will look to maintain control of the ball and keep possession - if a player has an attacking mentality, then he will look for an attempt at goal or an attacking pass - if there is no pass on, then the player with the higher mentality will be much more likely to take a shot as he is looking for an attacking option.

Ellesthyan
21-02-2008, 15:00
It's a pity that a thread that is essentially only there to put off steam has a title like this! Of course FM2008 is not a complete disaster and I'm pretty sure that the starter of this thread is fully aware of that. Whether the game should have been better is a lot more interesting question and I am of the opinion that 2008 was before the 802 patch not worth the money. After 802 it has in my opinion improved remarkably and has become a good and fun simulation of football managing.

However, saying that FM2008 is a complete disaster bears no ground whatsoever, if only because it has sold exceptionally well.

DaveRH
21-02-2008, 15:00
There is an element in this which I have a degree of sympathy with. It sounds to me like there may be a flaw with how the AI deals with teams with a good long shots ability.

We, as human players, have the ability to set things up to close down potential longer strikes. I suspect that the AI tactical system is not doing this.

If correct, the problem isn't in the tactics per se, but rather the AI's method of dealing with them.

This could be tested by setting up these "long shot" tactics against each other with two human teams.

Ched
21-02-2008, 15:01
* meant to add - "hence it is entirely due to tactics that the user is taking so many long shots and scoring from so many".


I had a similar problem with 07 (although the long shots weren't going in) and despite setting all players to "long shots - rarely" they were still taking too many - it is heavily affected by mentality - hence my origianl statement was correct - it is due to the users tactics.

I wish people would be correct when they tell me i'm wrong.

Ched
21-02-2008, 15:03
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DaveRH:
There is an element in this which I have a degree of sympathy with. It sounds to me like there may be a flaw with how the AI deals with teams with a good long shots ability.

We, as human players, have the ability to set things up to close down potential longer strikes. I suspect that the AI tactical system is not doing this.

If correct, the problem isn't in the tactics per se, but rather the AI's method of dealing with them.

This could be tested by setting up these "long shot" tactics against each other with two human teams. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good point - it's a pity the OP has not provided any evidence for us to look at (although many such moans never provide any sort of evidence) because if it is an AI fault, then i'm sure SI would like to see it.

drambuie2
21-02-2008, 15:36
I think the main issue with FM08 is the hidden factors that seem to be much
more important:

The AI defo seems more reactive to your approach, changing things, adjusting things - and its infuriating that it seems to make changes that actually work!

I certainly struggle to understand what sliders actually do - I understand football very well (watching it more years than I care to admit!) but what I think they do seems different to what happens in the game - e.g. it sort of makes sense that mentality affects long shots, but then why isn't long shots simply based on mentality and attributes rather than have its own slider? (An example not really seeking a response)

It is very annoying/frustrating/even infuriating when, like just now in my Tottenham game, a striker who has 13 finishing and 10 composure scores his 6 and 7th goals of the season against me. Mine, Berbatov and Keane, fail to hit a barn door. Why? Who knows .... one tweak here or there and they'll probably score. But which tweak?

hammersjj
21-02-2008, 15:38
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:
hence my origianl statement was correct - it is due to the users tactics.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Precisely, does that not show there is something wrong with the game engine if it can't cope with users tactics?
SI gave us the option to create and adjust tactics, people have and the game has shown cracks. Just saying 'well don't use that tactic' only makes it look like they aren't sure why things are happening.

GrahamPoll\'sPants
21-02-2008, 16:28
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:
* meant to add - "hence it is entirely due to tactics that the user is taking so many long shots and scoring from so many".


I had a similar problem with 07 (although the long shots weren't going in) and despite setting all players to "long shots - rarely" they were still taking too many - it is heavily affected by mentality - hence my origianl statement was correct - it is due to the users tactics.

I wish people would be correct when they tell me i'm wrong. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Of course a player with an attacking mentality will actively look for more shots on goal, including long shots, whereas a defensive mentality will result in less. It's a huge leap, however, to then claim with any kind of certainty that as a result the "too many long-shots" issue many people are experiencing is purely down to tactics as opposed to, say, any number of possible bugs or just how the new match engine is hardcoded to work. In other words, adjusting mentality may well be, and probably is, an effective way of lessening the problem but that doesn't automatically mean "it is entirely due to tactics", which is a pretty absurd claim. You lambaste the thread starter for making sweeping generalisations based on no evidence, yet you apparently have no interest in approaching the issue in an honest manner yourself.

Also, if you've set all your players to "long shots - rarely" and they're still taking too many, then this is, by any reasonable definition, a fault in the ME and not with your tactics. So well done, you've just gone and disproven your own argument.

GrahamPoll\'sPants
21-02-2008, 16:28
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:
* meant to add - "hence it is entirely due to tactics that the user is taking so many long shots and scoring from so many".


I had a similar problem with 07 (although the long shots weren't going in) and despite setting all players to "long shots - rarely" they were still taking too many - it is heavily affected by mentality - hence my origianl statement was correct - it is due to the users tactics.

I wish people would be correct when they tell me i'm wrong. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Of course a player with an attacking mentality will actively look for more shots on goal, including long shots, whereas a defensive mentality will result in less. It's a huge leap, however, to then claim with any kind of certainty that as a result the "too many long-shots" issue many people are experiencing is purely down to tactics as opposed to, say, any number of possible bugs or just how the new match engine is hardcoded to work. In other words, adjusting mentality may well be, and probably is, an effective way of lessening the problem but that doesn't automatically mean "it is entirely due to tactics", which is a pretty absurd claim. You lambaste the thread starter for making sweeping generalisations based on no evidence, yet you apparently have no interest in approaching the issue in an honest manner yourself.

Also, if you've set all your players to "long shots - rarely" and they're still taking too many, then this is, by any reasonable definition, a fault in the ME and not with your tactics. So well done, you've just gone and disproven your own argument.

tomtuck01
21-02-2008, 16:29
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GrahamPoll'sPants:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tomtuck01:
"Unplayable" is a wrong point of view. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>When people use the term "unplayable" in this context, they don't mean that the game is literally unplayable. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I know, but they are still wrong.

There are work arounds so that you don't score so much from corners, and indeed everything else that is deemed to be a "problem". Everyone else's problem is that they like to win everything easy when in the moment, then after they realise how hollow it is to score 50 gols a season from set pieces and end up moaning about it on here.

Maviarab
21-02-2008, 16:33
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">adjusting mentality may well be, and probably is, an effective way of lessening the problem but that doesn't automatically mean "it is entirely due to tactics", which is a pretty absurd claim. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
And isnt what you tell your players etc part of tactics?

GrahamPoll\'sPants
21-02-2008, 16:38
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tomtuck01:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GrahamPoll'sPants:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tomtuck01:
"Unplayable" is a wrong point of view. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>When people use the term "unplayable" in this context, they don't mean that the game is literally unplayable. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I know, but they are still wrong.

There are work arounds so that you don't score so much from corners, and indeed everything else that is deemed to be a "problem". Everyone else's problem is that they like to win everything easy when in the moment, then after they realise how hollow it is to score 50 gols a season from set pieces and end up moaning about it on here. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can't speak for everyone else like you have, but none of my issues with FM08 have to do with wanting it to be easy to win or anything like that.

When I stopped playing my 8.0.1 game with Hull, I was struggling along at 15th in the Championship with a few games to go in my first season. The fact that I was still only 15th at that stage was the most satisfying part of the game for me.

GrahamPoll\'sPants
21-02-2008, 16:40
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Maviarab:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">adjusting mentality may well be, and probably is, an effective way of lessening the problem but that doesn't automatically mean "it is entirely due to tactics", which is a pretty absurd claim. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
And isnt what you tell your players etc part of tactics? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, I'm not sure I follow what you mean.

tomtuck01
21-02-2008, 16:44
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GrahamPoll'sPants:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tomtuck01:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GrahamPoll'sPants:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tomtuck01:
"Unplayable" is a wrong point of view. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>When people use the term "unplayable" in this context, they don't mean that the game is literally unplayable. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I know, but they are still wrong.

There are work arounds so that you don't score so much from corners, and indeed everything else that is deemed to be a "problem". Everyone else's problem is that they like to win everything easy when in the moment, then after they realise how hollow it is to score 50 gols a season from set pieces and end up moaning about it on here. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can't speak for everyone else like you have, but none of my issues with FM08 have to do with wanting it to be easy to win or anything like that.

When I stopped playing my 8.0.1 game with Hull, I was struggling along at 15th in the Championship with a few games to go in my first season. The fact that I was still only 15th at that stage was the most satisfying part of the game for me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I never said people were having issues with wanting it to be easy. I said they had issues with it being too easy. I.E. patch 8.0.2 and being able to score too many goals from corners, therefore rendering every corner for your team as a goal.

And as for this;

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I can't speak for everyone else like you have </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Fcuk off with the little, pointless dig.

GrahamPoll\'sPants
21-02-2008, 17:12
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tomtuck01:
I never said people were having issues with wanting it to be easy. I said they had issues with it being too easy. I.E. patch 8.0.2 and being able to score too many goals from corners, therefore rendering every corner for your team as a goal. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I took that to be what you meant from this part: "Everyone else's problem is that they like to win everything easy when in the moment, then after they realise how hollow it is to score 50 gols a season from set pieces and end up moaning about it on here." Fair enough, though.

To address this part, then: "There are work arounds so that you don't score so much from corners, and indeed everything else that is deemed to be a "problem"."

The corners for me aren't an issue, as they're more-or-less fixed by not using "challenge goalkeeper" which although I'm sure is an annoyance for some people, doesn't really bother me. If people are finding scoring too easy, overall scores too high or long shots problems or whatever, I don't accept that this is as easily or as effectively fixed as the corner workaround, at least not as a result of my own admittedly limited testing. So I think the majority of concerns regarding these issues are genuine and not necessarily just mindless moaning, is basically what I'm saying.

LifeIsElsewhere
21-02-2008, 20:29
I wouldn't say FM 2008 is a disaster because it had me hooked for at least 3 hours every night but there is certainly room for improvement.

I am playing version 8.0.1 and my areas of concern are -

1) Defenders get beaten for speed too easily and there aren't many good defenders with high pace attributes although I don't think that would solve the problem
2) The number of shots per game looks rather incredible at times
3) Every other match seems to have controversial moments which the media wants you to address and it gets rather irritating at times
4) Other than leaving no comments, the way you respond to the media is likely to upset 1 or 2 players
5) I think clubs are able to sign players too easily but this could be good or bad depending on how you see it
6) Referees get to officiate in matches involving the same clubs in consecutive weeks, which I believe is not allowed in reality?

Other than point no.1 and 2, I think the rest are really negligible. I have thoroughly enjoyed the game so far and I am satisfied with version 8.0.1 and looking at the conflicting feedback on version 8.0.2, I don't think I will patch mine at least until I am ready to start a new game.

Just my honest opinions. Cheers.

tomtuck01
21-02-2008, 20:31
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GrahamPoll'sPants:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tomtuck01:
I never said people were having issues with wanting it to be easy. I said they had issues with it being too easy. I.E. patch 8.0.2 and being able to score too many goals from corners, therefore rendering every corner for your team as a goal. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I took that to be what you meant from this part: "Everyone else's problem is that they like to win everything easy when in the moment, then after they realise how hollow it is to score 50 gols a season from set pieces and end up moaning about it on here." Fair enough, though.

To address this part, then: "There are work arounds so that you don't score so much from corners, and indeed everything else that is deemed to be a "problem"."

The corners for me aren't an issue, as they're more-or-less fixed by not using "challenge goalkeeper" which although I'm sure is an annoyance for some people, doesn't really bother me. If people are finding scoring too easy, overall scores too high or long shots problems or whatever, I don't accept that this is as easily or as effectively fixed as the corner workaround, at least not as a result of my own admittedly limited testing. So I think the majority of concerns regarding these issues are genuine and not necessarily just mindless moaning, is basically what I'm saying. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Point taken http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

wwfan
21-02-2008, 20:56
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Also, if you've set all your players to "long shots - rarely" and they're still taking too many, then this is, by any reasonable definition, a fault in the ME and not with your tactics. So well done, you've just gone and disproven your own argument. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


There are three reasons why your players might be taking long shots too often. None of them are ME weaknesses.

1: PPM: The player has a long shot PPM which will override tactical instruction

2: Creative Freedom: The player has high creative freedom allowing him to choose to take long shots when they are on (although this has been toned down somewhat)

3: High Mentality & Lack of Passing Options: If a player has an attacking mentality and no attacking passing option, he has to do something that overrides his tactical instruction i.e. play a defensive pass or take a long shot. If there are no aggressive passing option available to said player, he has a 50% chance of choosing to shoot.

Put all three together in one player and....

Nostromo
22-02-2008, 00:25
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tomtuck01:
"Unplayable" is a wrong point of view. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

we are living in a democracy, not nazi germany. believe it or not, people can have point of views different to yours.

Nostromo
22-02-2008, 00:28
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tomtuck01:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GrahamPoll'sPants:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tomtuck01:
"Unplayable" is a wrong point of view. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>When people use the term "unplayable" in this context, they don't mean that the game is literally unplayable. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I know, but they are still wrong.

There are work arounds so that you don't score so much from corners, and indeed everything else that is deemed to be a "problem". Everyone else's problem is that they like to win everything easy when in the moment, then after they realise how hollow it is to score 50 gols a season from set pieces and end up moaning about it on here. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


as someone pointed out, do you want people to set tactics so they won't score as much???


i like your line of thinking....very original.

Barside
22-02-2008, 01:20
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jibsa:
I know more about real football sonnie than you'll ever. Go on, ask me a question. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can't let this comment go, I guess you must be an ex-professional footballer & as suche the fountain of all footballing knowledge.

I bow down to your vast tactical understanding.

Themistofelis
22-02-2008, 01:24
Unplayable is a game that freezes , crushes , has so many bugs that you would prefer to spend a weekend as a prisoner in Dahou than playing it for 2 hours ( example : Two Worlds ).
FM08 is totally playable.

Football is a game where winning and losing is part of the deal, i don't mind losing and i think all mentally healthy football fans feel the same .
The problem for me is that most of the times AI teams win without be the best ones in the field .

Also SI added too many annoyances in the game , from Chairmen who sell players over your head to girly players with sensitive feelings and AI managers who declare that "You can not win the championship" and then play with 11 guys defending in their box.
The game does have the potential to be fun and interesting but SI is not very flexible on it's policy and i think that they will never understand that the casual gamer plays games for fun and relaxation ; annoying , tough to understand , "read my tactics" software will eventually fade .

Barnzy
22-02-2008, 01:24
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Barnzy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Barnzy:
Ched you are talking nonsense, when it comes to corners being easily avoidable. I never touch my corner setting yet am scoring a stupid amount of goals. Are you saying I should tinker with my corner tactics to avoid scoring goals? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, that is exactly what i'm saying.

You have effectively 3 options:

1/ leave it as it is and score a silly amount of corners.

2/ moan and hope SI issue another patch (very unlikely based on official SI responses)

3/ remove any player from "challenge GK" and presto, problem solved.

It's not ideal, but i'd rather SI put the time into making FM09 rather than make a patch for something that can be avoided with fewer than a half dozens clicks of a mouse. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I meant to add that i fail to see at what point i started "talking nonesense". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The point about corners and tinkering to"avoid" scoring goals is a joke. Not only do I have to tinker to find a tactic that is moderatly successful but I also have to tinker so I dont score to many goals from corners. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

well joke or not, it's what you have to do - either fix it yourself or stop bloody moaning. If it bothers you so much, create a thread in the bugs forum and provide pkms or save games. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gonna do something that I myself hate...... http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

This is supposed to be a management Sim, SI are looking for realism, what manager IRL looks for ways to avoid scoring goals.

I have every right to moan I paid for the game and am entitled to.

Nomis07
22-02-2008, 01:32
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Barnzy:
Gonna do something that I myself hate...... http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

This is supposed to be a management Sim, SI are looking for realism, what manager IRL looks for ways to avoid scoring goals.

I have every right to moan I paid for the game and am entitled to. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's supposed to be a sim but we all know it isn't and it is just a game. Echoing reality is never going to happen and perhaps the most annoying thing on these forums is people going on about reality not being shown in a save in which they have taken Grimsby to the CL final (unfortunately given the nature of these forums I feel I must point out this is an observation rather than a dig at you). Using the sim argument may have it's merits as SI market it as a sim but every right thinking person knows that it's not. One mans perception of relaistic football is another mans nightmare, and we have to consider that the amount of goals, long range goals, headed goals, penalties etc would have to be programmed for each league in regard to reality, which would be a massive job.

Yes you're entitled to your opinion of whether the game is good or bad but the main point people on these forums have been trying to make is, stop these ridiculous threads in which people say the game has been a disaster and SI are ruined, there are problems but threads like this are absolute rubbish no matter waht side of the fence you reside.

Barnzy
22-02-2008, 01:41
I understand what your saying in that "This game is carp" threads serve no purpose. I just have an issue with having to "work around" scoring to many goals. It seems that for every fault of the game you get at least one person saying "its your tactics" I agree that it is the case in most cases but in this case its a fault with the match engine.

Nomis07
22-02-2008, 01:50
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Barnzy:
I understand what your saying in that "This game is carp" threads serve no purpose. I just have an issue with having to "work around" scoring to many goals. It seems that for every fault of the game you get at least one person saying "its your tactics" I agree that it is the case in most cases but in this case its a fault with the match engine. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think the main problem here is that there are still a lot of people who have not experienced these problems. I average 2.1 goals a game with Bayern Munich and average 0.5 conceded. The same happened with 8.0.1 I never experienced a majority of the bugs, apart from the obvious ones like near post corners, so I didn't see what peoples problems were.

IMO peoples reaction on the forums has been caused by issues such as the Spanish Reg bug, which I never experienced because I never holidayed and always submitted my team. Yes there were issues i.e. even on holiday the AI should have picked your best team, but in relaity the "bug" was human induced. This elad to people getting fed up with players who caused their own problems which in turn led to "it's you tactics" rants.

The fact of the matter is a lot of people are experiencing problems thata re tactics induced, but also I believe the people on these forums are fed up hearing about problems that SI have said will not be fixed with an 8.0.3. So there is little that can be done about it, rather than open a new thread saying what has been said a thousand times, go back to 8.0.1.

I'd go so far as to say the people who argue agaisnt bugs for for "it's your tactics" sympathise with people who have experienced it but are sick to death reading about it.

I love FM but I hate 8.0.2, not because of bugs but because I just preferred 8.0.1. So rather than open a thread I just went back to 8.0.1.

Barnzy
22-02-2008, 01:58
Lets all just hope these are all non-issue's for FM09 and that we wont have to use workarounds and the bugs we see today wont be around.

Ched
22-02-2008, 02:22
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GrahamPoll'sPants:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:
* meant to add - "hence it is entirely due to tactics that the user is taking so many long shots and scoring from so many".


I had a similar problem with 07 (although the long shots weren't going in) and despite setting all players to "long shots - rarely" they were still taking too many - it is heavily affected by mentality - hence my origianl statement was correct - it is due to the users tactics.

I wish people would be correct when they tell me i'm wrong. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Of course a player with an attacking mentality will actively look for more shots on goal, including long shots, whereas a defensive mentality will result in less. It's a huge leap, however, to then claim with any kind of certainty that as a result the "too many long-shots" issue many people are experiencing is purely down to tactics as opposed to, say, any number of possible bugs or just how the new match engine is hardcoded to work. In other words, adjusting mentality may well be, and probably is, an effective way of lessening the problem but that doesn't automatically mean "it is entirely due to tactics", which is a pretty absurd claim. You lambaste the thread starter for making sweeping generalisations based on no evidence, yet you apparently have no interest in approaching the issue in an honest manner yourself.

Also, if you've set all your players to "long shots - rarely" and they're still taking too many, then this is, by any reasonable definition, a fault in the ME and not with your tactics. So well done, you've just gone and disproven your own argument. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wonder why i continue to respond to such ignorant posts - basically what wwfan said is the correct answer.

If you claim to know more about tactics than him then i'll leave you to your delusions.

The fact is simple - It is due to tactics - believe it or not, but i can't be bothered arguing with someone who refuses to accept the truth.

Justme87
22-02-2008, 02:28
Ched - Is it not all possible that the match engine is malfunctioning ?

Justme87
22-02-2008, 02:29
Please resist the temptation to use 'tactics' within your retort.

Ched
22-02-2008, 02:36
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wwfan:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Also, if you've set all your players to "long shots - rarely" and they're still taking too many, then this is, by any reasonable definition, a fault in the ME and not with your tactics. So well done, you've just gone and disproven your own argument. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


There are three reasons why your players might be taking long shots too often. None of them are ME weaknesses.

1: PPM: The player has a long shot PPM which will override tactical instruction

2: Creative Freedom: The player has high creative freedom allowing him to choose to take long shots when they are on (although this has been toned down somewhat)

3: High Mentality & Lack of Passing Options: If a player has an attacking mentality and no attacking passing option, he has to do something that overrides his tactical instruction i.e. play a defensive pass or take a long shot. If there are no aggressive passing option available to said player, he has a 50% chance of choosing to shoot.

Put all three together in one player and.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you! At last someone who knows what they're talking about - basically the point i was trying to make regarding tactics.

Barnzy - Nomis hit the nail on the head, my point is that moans like this do nothing but irritate people, if you feel it is a major problem, start a thread in the bugs forum, i've told you how it can be avoided....can't do much more.

I maintain, you still only have a few options:

1/ leave it as it is and score a silly amount of corners.

2/ moan and hope SI issue another patch (very unlikely based on official SI responses)

3/ remove any player from "challenge GK" and presto, problem solved.



i picked number 3 - why? because i like my game to be realistic, and because i feel that moans like this are not helping anyone (i'd even suggest Troll - due to the nature of the poster and lack of history/further posts) hence i fixed the problem myself, after checking to see if SI were aware of the problem (they are) and if they are going to fix it in the reissue (they aren't).

People seem to have interpreted my comments in the wrong way - I FULLY AGREE THAT IT IS A BUG. However, rather than moan about it, i just fixed it. That's my point, i'm not saying it isn't an issue, just that it can be fixed more easily than moaned about.

And "I'd go so far as to say the people who argue agaisnt bugs for for "it's your tactics" sympathise with people who have experienced it but are sick to death reading about it" - is right on the money, i'm not the most patient person and perhaps that is why i do not elaborate myself fully, but when i give people a correct answer, and get told i'm wrong it irritates me somewhat.

Ched
22-02-2008, 02:41
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justme87:
Please resist the temptation to use 'tactics' within your retort. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

1/ i retract my previous comment regarding the word troll - appologies.

2/ The ME is nothing more than a representation of your tactics.

3/ in the case of corners - the ME IS MALFUNCTIONING - however my point is that it can be avoided in far less time than it took you to make this thread.

4/ in the case of long shots - wwfans post sums up what i was trying to say, sorry to repeat myself, but it is entirely your tactics, i'll say again - i made the same error some time ago, i thought "long shots" was the ONLY thing that controlled the amount of long shots a player will take - this really isn't the case.

5/ ditto high scoring games

i knwo you don't like to hear it, but all of these problems are either caused by tactics, or can be easily avoided by tactics.

SI are aware of the corner problem, however due to the fact each ME tweak produces more bugs, they have clearly decided to fix it in FM09 rather than waste development time on something that can be remedied by us in less than 6 mouse clicks.

aaronccfc
22-02-2008, 02:44
There still remains the fact that they ignored fixing the board confidence bug. Twice in Scotland lower leagues I finished second but lost the promotion playoff. The board feels I finished bottom and I got the sack. How can this not have been fixed??

Ched
22-02-2008, 02:50
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by aaronccfc:
There still remains the fact that they ignored fixing the board confidence bug. Twice in Scotland lower leagues I finished second but lost the promotion playoff. The board feels I finished bottom and I got the sack. How can this not have been fixed?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Upload your save on the bugs forum.

I spoke to miles about this and he said that the reason it wasn't fixed was because there weren't any save games uploaded for them to check.

I fully agree that board confidence IS an issue that has no workaround. (and have made a thread to that affect)

Justme87
22-02-2008, 03:00
Ched - What about nearly every side in England (I only run English leagues) conceding more goals than the amount of games they've played ?

Nomis07
22-02-2008, 03:02
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by aaronccfc:
There still remains the fact that they ignored fixing the board confidence bug. Twice in Scotland lower leagues I finished second but lost the promotion playoff. The board feels I finished bottom and I got the sack. How can this not have been fixed?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Upload your save on the bugs forum.

I spoke to miles about this and he said that the reason it wasn't fixed was because there weren't any save games uploaded for them to check.

I fully agree that board confidence IS an issue that has no workaround. (and have made a thread to that affect) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Spot on. I raised the issue of board confidence in a thread Miles was taking party in and his reply was that I should have raised it in the bugs forum with a save game. I hadn't done that so what can they do about it if they aren't told.

I raised another bug re: U21 management in there and the testing team got back to me in a matter of minutes requesting a save game and were more than helpful.

The people that matter i.e. the testing team, do keep an eye on the bugs forum so perhaps if more issues were raised eloquently there rather than a rant in General Discussions, more would be done.

Justme87
22-02-2008, 03:03
There are 19(quick search) teams in England (4 top divisions) whom have conceded less goals than games played.

In FM, I would seriously struggle to find 5 teams with similar records.

Nomis07
22-02-2008, 03:06
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Barnzy:
Lets all just hope these are all non-issue's for FM09 and that we wont have to use workarounds and the bugs we see today wont be around. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unfortunately I don't see that happen and have been criticised on these forums for my reasons for this.

If SI had been left to their own devices pre 8.0.2 rather than have thread after thread rant about an 8.0.2 release, they could have taken their time and got it right, whilst also concentrating on FM09. Unfortunately the deluge of rants I believe caused a rushed job with 8.0.2. Mile denies this of course but it's just my theory.

IMO such a massive 8.0.2 should never have been released, so that SI could concentrate fully on making FM09 bigger and better than ever before.

Ched
22-02-2008, 03:12
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justme87:
Ched - What about nearly every side in England (I only run English leagues) conceding more goals than the amount of games they've played ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well in my game there are currently 16 teams in the prem who have conceded more goals than games played.

IRL there are 15 teams in the prem, who right now have conceded more goals than games played.

Can't see too much wrong with that.

It could be that your save is a rare occurance, if it keeps happening then start a thread in the bugs forum and upload a saved game.

Nomis07
22-02-2008, 03:13
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justme87:
There are 19(quick search) teams in England (4 top divisions) whom have conceded less goals than games played.

In FM, I would seriously struggle to find 5 teams with similar records. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Post your game in the Bugs forum then.

You keep replying to posts about tactics etc as if SI or one of us are going to give you some answers in General Discussion. I'm sure it has already been raised in the bugs forum but adding your save game would help all players of the game out and give SI some solid proof that there is a problem. At the moment all they have is your rant to go on, which could be made up (i'm not suggesting it is but there is always the possibility).

Justme87
22-02-2008, 03:16
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:


Well in my game there are currently 16 teams in the prem who have conceded more goals than games played.

IRL there are 15 teams in the prem, who right now have conceded more goals than games played.


</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

IRL there are 13 in the prem, who right now have conceded more goals than games played.

The simple facts are TOO MANY goals are being scored.

Another undeniable FACT.

faltering fullback
22-02-2008, 03:21
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by skintsaint:
and so commences another battle in the fanboy v disgruntled customer war.....

hehe :P

To be honest if I didnt read these forums I wouldnt know what bugs where about. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



couldn't agree more.

didn't read past this post as i'm sure it has gone as predicted.

aaronccfc
22-02-2008, 03:40
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justme87:
Ched - What about nearly every side in England (I only run English leagues) conceding more goals than the amount of games they've played ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ahhh...I assume it is to late now....I am amazed that they could not recreate this as they must have been very aware of it. I read about this bug on every FM forum. They are saying no-one helped them out....hmmm...methinks they just could not fix it http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

aaronccfc
22-02-2008, 03:44
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Upload your save on the bugs forum.

I spoke to miles about this and he said that the reason it wasn't fixed was because there weren't any save games uploaded for them to check.

I fully agree that board confidence IS an issue that has no workaround. (and have made a thread to that affect)

My comment should have been attached to these posts. Nomis, you really think they didn'y know about this. Go to FM Dugout. A guy there sent them a saved game http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Spot on. I raised the issue of board confidence in a thread Miles was taking party in and his reply was that I should have raised it in the bugs forum with a save game. I hadn't done that so what can they do about it if they aren't told. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

aaronccfc
22-02-2008, 03:47
This should have been on my last post after the quote. A guy on FM Dugout says he sent them a save. Again I think they could just not fix it. This problem as been listed on every forum.

I do like the game, but this bug is really game ruining, and very easy to recreate!

Ched
22-02-2008, 03:55
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justme87:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:


Well in my game there are currently 16 teams in the prem who have conceded more goals than games played.

IRL there are 15 teams in the prem, who right now have conceded more goals than games played.


</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

IRL there are 13 in the prem, who right now have conceded more goals than games played.

The simple facts are TOO MANY goals are being scored.

Another undeniable FACT. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you feel it is an "undeniable fact" then stop moaning about it here and post in the bugs forum - is it too much to understand??????

If you moan about something here you will not get as much of a response form SI compared to if you brought it up in the bugs forum.

STOP BITCHING IN THESE THREADS AND START POSTING IN THE BUGS FORUM

That is the only way that SI will see these "problems" - be prepared to upload a saved game as they need these also.

I state, in my save there is not a problem with too many goals being scored. If that is not the case in your save THEN UPLOAD IT IN THE BUGS FORUM.

With regard to your comments to real life teams - i was referring to the 2006/2007 season - as this is the most recent COMPLETE league table - if there are still only 13 teams who have conceded fewer than 38 goals at the end of the season then those stats will become valid - however in the last FULL season the only teams to concede less than 1 goal per game were the top 4 +everton so my statement was accurate - i appologise as i should have stated i was using 06/07 data.

When SI made this game they DID NOT HAVE 07/08 data, hence the game should be accurate relative to LAST YEARS STATS. Which in my save, it is. "Another undeniable FACT"

Ched
22-02-2008, 04:28
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by aaronccfc:
This should have been on my last post after the quote. A guy on FM Dugout says he sent them a save. Again I think they could just not fix it. This problem as been listed on every forum.

I do like the game, but this bug is really game ruining, and very easy to recreate! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The key part of this phrase is "a guy" - if it's only one person then why would they pull out all the stops to fix the "problem".

I said it hasn't happened to me, justme says it has happened to him - therefore do SI fix it and possibly mess up more areas of the ME, or do they leave it and frustrate the people who it affects?

If everybody who had a problem posted in the bigs forum, and provided saves, then SI would know how many people the problem affected and hence whether they should fix it.

Similarly, due to the fact that football itself is inherantly random, it is an exceptionally hard case to prove/disprove, as one season may score higher than average, whilst a following season may score lower - i feel that anything less that 10 years of results cannot provide any sort of reliable evidence.

Justme87
22-02-2008, 04:43
Ched - Are you looking for employment with SI ?

Nomis07
22-02-2008, 04:52
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justme87:
Ched - Are you looking for employment with SI ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

FFS, why don't you just waddle on over to the bugs forum and post your life destroying bug instead of waffling on? You are an absolute cretin.

I apologise to everyone who has offered reasonable time and effort to this thread, which I had hoped would remain as a debate. but this guy cannot be taken seriously, he doesn't seem to udnerstand anything, even if it is advice.

Go away and combust in your sordid little FM grief hole.

Justme87
22-02-2008, 04:54
I have a feeling that if I told Ched that death is inevitable, he would attempt to disprove this.

Justme87
22-02-2008, 04:55
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nomis07:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justme87:
Ched - Are you looking for employment with SI ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

FFS, why don't you just waddle on over to the bugs forum and post your life destroying bug instead of waffling on? You are an absolute cretin.

Awww, how sweet. Are you Ched's, ya know, partner ?
I apologise to everyone who has offered reasonable time and effort to this thread, which I had hoped would remain as a debate. but this guy cannot be taken seriously, he doesn't seem to udnerstand anything, even if it is advice.

Go away and combust in your sordid little FM grief hole. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Justme87
22-02-2008, 04:56
Aww, how sweet. Are you, ya know, ched's partner ?

Nomis07
22-02-2008, 04:59
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justme87:
Aww, how sweet. Are you, ya know, ched's partner ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Being Ched's partner would, i'm sure be a walk in park compared to listening to any more of this drivel.

Ched
22-02-2008, 05:01
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justme87:
Ched - Are you looking for employment with SI ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Grow up.

I've debated everything that you've presented, and yet you just keep acting like a child when you are proven wrong.

Justme87
22-02-2008, 05:06
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justme87:
Ched - Are you looking for employment with SI ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Grow up.

I've debated everything that you've presented, and yet you just keep acting like a child when you are proven wrong. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Proven wrong ?

Are you hiding under my bed watching me play FM ?

You have been exposed in connection to your profile, and GrahamPoll'sPants absolutely ripped your monotonous spin to pieces.

Ched
22-02-2008, 05:10
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justme87:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Justme87:
Ched - Are you looking for employment with SI ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Grow up.

I've debated everything that you've presented, and yet you just keep acting like a child when you are proven wrong. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Proven wrong ?

Are you hiding under my bed watching me play FM ?

You have been exposed in connection to your profile, and GrahamPoll'sPants absolutely ripped your monotonous spin to pieces. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I (as have wwfan) have shown tht grahampollspants is wrong - i'm sure with a combined forum experience of a month both you and grahampoll know more than him....

I have demostrated that the problems you talk about are either:

a) easily fixed - the corners

or

b) your tactics - everything else

in response you ahve behaved like a child.

"in connection to my profile" - i am not entirely sure what you mean here - please elaborate.

Justme87
22-02-2008, 05:14
Work it out, POIROT.

SI are very pround of you though.

Defending the indefensible.

dafuge
22-02-2008, 05:15
I'm closing this as it's turning into pointless bickering. If you want to discuss any of the issues raised in this thread, I'm sure you can find another relevant thread.

Justme87
22-02-2008, 05:15
PROUD ^^^^^^^^^^^ http://community.sigames.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

NO EDIT http://community.sigames.com/customicons/icon13.gif

MORE INEPT WORK.